6
7

Why are you against gamergate? (self.AgainstGamerGate)

GenderConfusedSquidPro-GG が 投稿

I've been looking around here and I can't find a clear explination. I understand a large amnount of Gamergate opposition have that stance because they are opposed to the harrasment of online female gave devs and femminists.

While I think I would be completely fucking stupid to claim that non of those are by gamergate supporters - I believe harrasment/doxxing of women isn't a core principle of gamergate. If you take any group of people (Gamergaters, anti-gamergaters, gardeners, police officers, muslims, christians, teachers, whites, blacks etc.) you will find good people and bad people. It's generally a not good idea to not let the bad elements of a group decide your view of the entire group.

I support gamergate, because as far as I can see it is a movement that is based around improving gaming journalisms ethical standards. KiA isn't full of "please harrass people x" posts, but posts that focus on legitimate issues in gaming.

My question is: Why are you against gamergate?

Thank you for any responses

上位 200 件のコメント表示する 500
並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]socataRapscallion 30ポイント31ポイント  (1子コメント)

Because it's fucking stupid.

[–]DonReavisDonReavis 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's the War on Christmas of video games.

[–]athrian 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm against it for a few reasons.

1) On paper, what GG claims to stand for seems fine. It's not something that's really a big concern for me though (journalism in general has a lot of issues with ethics and conflicts of interest), so I don't feel very strongly about it. In that regard, you could consider me a "neutral".

2) The movement seems to have attracted some of the worst kinds of people on the internet from the very beginning. I despise chan culture because I don't find it funny to screw with people "just for lulz", nor do I find commonplace usage of slurs like the f-word to be acceptable. I despise people like Nero, Cernovich, Vox Day, etc who come across as nothing more than internet bullies with their own agendas.

3) Too often, anything related to journalism ethics gets lumped in with anti-feminism, red-pilling, or ranting about "SJWs".

4) The extreme tribal mentality, and the "No True Gamergater" syndrome that comes up whenever something bad happens.

5) For a movement supposedly focused on ethics, a lot of unethical behavior gets excused or overlooked if it's somebody "important" to the movement. I've seen huge threads where people analyze tweets from someone they don't like to find hidden meanings, but plug their ears and go "la-la-la-la that source doesn't count" when confronted with true unethical behavior by their e-celebrities.

6) After months and months, I'm not seeing any actual attempts to do anything other than brigade emails and write complaint threads on the internet. A movement can't be unorganized forever. It really just feels like a bunch of angry people venting about whatever is on their mind.

7) The entire 8chan fiasco and excuses. I don't care about any free speech arguments when it comes to defending a site that wants to handwave CP. Simply put, GG constantly seems to keep finding itself associated with some of the worst parts of the internet.

8) The conspiracy nutjob crap. "Oh we're fighting the whole US government". "Oh the CEO of reddit is personally trying to shut us down". "Oh people are only aGG because they're misinformed or have spouses that are feminists". "Oh someone disagreed it must mean they're just a shill or a stupid SJW".

[–]socjuswar 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Re-post from elsewhere:

At one point, early on, I thought, "I may disagree with them on politics, but I could probley be cool just playing video games with most gamergaters."

But then, the same day I was thinking that, I saw a chan thread about what they should do, from a PR stance, "if and when Zoe commits suicide." It was every bit as callous and cruel as you could imagine. And this isn't 'cherry-picking' it was a top thread with lots of posters and no dissenters.

Now I would not want to be in the same room with someone actively supporting gamergate.

[–]stopsayingfaggotAnti-GG 35ポイント36ポイント  (8子コメント)

Oh goody, I get to post this again:

EDIT: Hey /u/GenderConfusedSquid, you want to know why we're against GamerGate? It's partly because of bullshit like this.

[–]caesar_primus 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hey /u/GenderConfusedSquid[17] , you want to know why we're against GamerGate? It's partly because of bullshit like this[18] .

That username is also a good reason to be against gamergate.

[–]youchoobDen Mother 8ポイント9ポイント  (6子コメント)

ahahahaha I beat you to it.

[–]stopsayingfaggotAnti-GG 8ポイント9ポイント  (5子コメント)

No fair! You're a mod, you have an unfair advantage!

[–]youchoobDen Mother 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

Modabuse.

Considering I approved. Searched it. Found your comment. Permalinked. Open r /agg. sort by new. Paste. It's not too bad.

[–]Paladinlost 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

But can it melt steel beams?

[–]stopsayingfaggotAnti-GG 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'll get you next time.. *grumble grumble*

[–]youchoobDen Mother 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

To be fair, I'm tempted to bring up the "What would make you neutral" thread again.

[–]youchoobDen Mother 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstGamerGate/comments/3a3w5d/antigg_why_are_you_against_gamergate/cs9g9k0

[–]NefariousBananaTurned Heel on Ghazi 24ポイント25ポイント  (131子コメント)

I posted this in another thread, and it also explains my new flair.

Gamergate, regardless of which side you're on, is nothing but opportunistic ego stroking for identity politics in video games in which people are more than willing to inadvertently trample on marginalized groups so long as it's "for the cause". This us and them mentality, which excuses some pretty heinous shit, is why I left Ghazi and have talked shit about them multiple times. Everyone is obsessed with "winning" and you can tell, especially with gamergate's militaristic rhetoric from the beginning. You can say I'm falling for the golden mean fallacy all you want, but nobody's hands are clean.

Tl;Dr it's political opportunism. Milo didn't give a shit about video games before this, and neither did CHS or thunderf00t. It's all posturing to make money by pandering to a young and impressionable neoreactionary audience. It's one of the most annoying culture wars of this generation.

[–]coherentsheafPro-GG 4ポイント5ポイント  (96子コメント)

Right on Milo and CHS, very wrong on Thunderf00t. He was even in the competitive scene.

pandering to a young and impressionable neoreactionary audience

I am laughing my ass off while reading this. Do you know what neoreactionary means?

[–]TaxTime2015/Melisandre/ is always right 6ポイント7ポイント  (27子コメント)

He should have said reactionary. The only NRX. I know is an anti.

[–]coherentsheafPro-GG 1ポイント2ポイント  (26子コメント)

Of course they are. Antisocial clusters.

[–]TaxTime2015/Melisandre/ is always right 4ポイント5ポイント  (25子コメント)

I have also seen plenty of NRX in GG I just don't know them as they don't post here. For instance I saw a link to Moldbig at like +60 on KiA. And the NRX anti that posts here doesn't really have any allies.

[–]meheleventyoneAnti-GG 3ポイント4ポイント  (11子コメント)

Are they really anti... I really can't tell from the almost on topic ancient quotes they bring up all the time?

[–]TaxTime2015/Melisandre/ is always right 5ポイント6ポイント  (10子コメント)

His complaint is GG is only against 3rd wave feminism and not feminism as a whole.

[–]meheleventyoneAnti-GG 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeesh!

[–]Doc-ock-rokc [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

Well seeing that the issue isn't with feminism as a whole but rather the actions of people whom call themselves third wave feminists. it's quite easy to see why.

I don't think anyone in GG wants inequality of the sexes. I just don't think they want these people who use feminism as a shield to push an agenda to be having any say in their own private lives.

Oddly enough these people who call themselves third wave feminists are more likely to be more sexist then anyone else.

[–]TaxTime2015/Melisandre/ is always right [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

Okay. But do you think the woman should have the vote? Because that is first wave feminism which he is against.

[–]coherentsheafPro-GG 2ポイント3ポイント  (12子コメント)

Moldbug is one of the best blog writers I know. Upvotes for his more reasonable takes dont surprise me.

[–]TaxTime2015/Melisandre/ is always right 3ポイント4ポイント  (11子コメント)

Okay. So you are a neo reactionary. This is very confusing. Or were you being sarcastic?

[–]coherentsheafPro-GG 1ポイント2ポイント  (10子コメント)

So you are a neo reactionary.

No i am not, i am a leftwing technocrat and transhumanist with liberal egalitarian sensibilities. Molbug is a good writer. There is a difference between having literary skill and being right.

Edit: While cheesy, I think this Chaplin speech covers most of my value system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX25PDBb708 ;)

[–]meheleventyoneAnti-GG 4ポイント5ポイント  (9子コメント)

I know tastes differ but you really think Moldbug's overwrought prose is good writing!?

[–]TaxTime2015/Melisandre/ is always right 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

I would describe Molbug's style as unreadable.

[–]coherentsheafPro-GG 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

He draws you in. His metaphors have punch. It is a thousand times more enjoyable than e.g. pz myers writing, a far left blogger who is often lauded by others for being a good writer. Myers style in the pieces that are actually lauded is nevertheless similarly "overwrought" and so is the style of Scott Alexander (even explicitely acknowledged influence of Moldbug on his style), who is also remarked upon by many both left and right as writing very well. The soul appreciating these styles is hardly alone, and appearently in good company by even your presumably quite restricitve taste when it comes to truthiness of the message. Well I guess I have qualified my reservations regarding your judgement of taste.

[–]NefariousBananaTurned Heel on Ghazi 12ポイント13ポイント  (67子コメント)

Which competitive scene was he in? That was one I wasn't completely sure on (all I remember is when he said Halo was a PlayStation game), so a correction would help.

Neo reactionary, Dark Enlightenment, alt-right. Take your pick.

[–]coherentsheafPro-GG 1ポイント2ポイント  (66子コメント)

I dont have all the videos at hand and dont want to watch all them all again. Unless he completely lied he showed some pretty high skill footage (based on movement speed and displayed precision) from some older game and he talked about his experience in his Clan. In an interview with Ray Comfort he also said that his name was his username from online gaming.

Neo reactionary, Dark Enlightenment, alt-right. Take your pick.

OMG that is completely stupid. Neoreactionary is a faschist fringe movement. Gamergate values are more close to left wing liberalism than any other ideology. If you beleive otherwise you ahve never read neoreactionaries like MoldBUG etcetera, their views and philosophy are radicvally different. I think what is going on here is that you have trouble to differentiate ideological outgroups. People that are different from you are all the same since you perceive them as one menacing conspiracy against you.

[–]NefariousBananaTurned Heel on Ghazi 11ポイント12ポイント  (56子コメント)

OK, I fucked up this one. I should've clarified that the supporters aren't the neo reactionaries. I don't even think that's the majority. I meant more along the lines of the people that "rallied the troops" so to speak. People like MundaneMatt and InternetAristocrat who's views kinda fall in line with alt-right philosophy. And a lot of early gamergate supporters fell for the rhetoric hook line and sinker whilst simultaneously claiming to be "left wing liberals" at the same time, ignoring the fact that you can be right wing on certain stances like gender politics.

It's not conspiracy, but birds of a feather flock together.

[–]DissentientPro-GG 1ポイント2ポイント  (42子コメント)

ignoring the fact that you can be right wing on certain stances like gender politics.

One of your problems is that you perceive anything that is less left than you as right-wing.

[–]Strich-9 7ポイント8ポイント  (7子コメント)

After talking with GGers about affirmative action and racial issues in America in this sub-reddit over the past couple days, it's hard to think of them as anything but right wing

[–]DissentientPro-GG [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

It seems that you haven't talked to real right-wingers in a long time.

People don't like affirmative action just as another form of discrimination. We just don't believe that discriminating against perceived 'privileged' people will solve problems of underprivileged. Poverty needs to be eliminated regardless of skin color. Education needs to be good and accessible to everyone, regardless of skin color. Prejudice needs to be eliminated regardless of who it is against. When those issues get addressed, underprivileged will automatically be the ones whose life will improve the most, without any need to discriminate in the process.

I am, for instance, also in favor of state-funded post secondary education so that people can get it regardless of class of their parents. I am in favor of progressive taxation.

All of those ideas go pretty much entirely against right wing politics.

You are, in fact, perceiving moderate left as right. You are seeing people who disagree with you on how ideas of social justice need to be implemented, and you perceive them to be against social justice.

[–]TaxTime2015/Melisandre/ is always right [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

Do you agree with this statement:

"In order to end racial discrimination you have have to stop discriminating based on race"?

Do you think that is a right wing or left wing or moderate position?

[–]DissentientPro-GG [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Yes, I agree.

I don't think that this position is either left or right.

[–]judgeholden72 16ポイント17ポイント  (20子コメント)

Except for the fact that the things repeatedly said here about social issues that don't support straight white men are flat-out right wing.

There's endless denial of race privilege or gender privilege, which is a right wing thing to do. There are arguments for colorblindness or "merit," which are right wing talking points and among the most meaningless things you can say when you think about it.

Seriously, "merit based hiring" is so ridiculously meaningless that it can only be said by someone that's never been part of a hiring committee and seen how a group of three people can spend see 5 candidates and have trouble determining which has the most "merit" because not only do they see the candidates differently but they see the needed skills for the role differently.

Yet GG will come out with "I support equality, colorblindness, and merit based hiring," which are things old white Republicans say.

[–]Caelrie 5ポイント6ポイント  (12子コメント)

One of your problems is that you perceive anything that is less left than you as right-wing.

When you find yourself in the same camp as Milo or Adam Baldwin on an issue, it's a fair assessment.

[–]DissentientPro-GG 3ポイント4ポイント  (11子コメント)

The fact that they are on the same side of this particular controversy doesn't mean that gamergate supports their political views or vice versa. The only thing they have in common is some amount of libertarianism, however, if either of them tried to push anything explicitly right-wing into GG, they would lose GG's support immediately.

[–]Caelrie 9ポイント10ポイント  (10子コメント)

however, if either of them tried to push anything explicitly right-wing into GG, they would lose GG's support immediately

A flat-out lie. They constantly push right-wing politics into GG and GG loves it.

コメントをもっと表示する (13 返事)

    [–]othellothewise [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

    Gamergate values are more close to left wing liberalism than any other ideology.

    What values are left wing?

    [–]coherentsheafPro-GG [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    I have argued with you before. No thanks, you are hopeless.

    [–]Doc-ock-rokc [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

    We don't judge people by skin color, We don't judge people by sex. Many gamers don't give a shit who you are or what walk of life you come from. As long as you play the game and play the game well, you are good.

    That's more progressive then the shill these journalists are slinging out.

    [–]TaxTime2015/Melisandre/ is always right [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    “The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.”

    Is this a left wing sentiment?

    [–]othellothewise [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

    I'm asking what gamergate values are left wing. You didn't answer that question.

    For example, I know plenty of racist and sexist GGers (look at RooshV for an example). The fact that they are racist does not make them not-GG.

    [–]Doc-ock-rokc [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

    Yet for every racist sexist GGer you have at least 12 racist sexist aGGers.

    [–]othellothewise [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    Probably inaccurate but sure I get your point. However, wouldn't the presence of racist and sexist GGers imply that anti-racism and anti-sexism aren't GG values? Because they wouldn't join GG if it represented anti-racism and anti-sexism.

    [–]Doc-ock-rokc [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    I think being discriminatory to white people isn't anti-racism...its racism.

    I think being discriminatory to men isn't anti-sexism...its sexism.

    I think that is something shared among the majority of gamergate.

    People who have been shitting all over games are being racist and sexist. Thinking that only women or minorities can make a game at all. Or that a game that doesn't include a woman to the absolute standard of "Mary sue" is a sexist bigot. Or that any dipection of a minority is somehow wrong whether or not they have any stereotypical fuctions at all. Or that any scene where a woman isn't treated like a goddess is sexist...or any scene where she is treated like a goddess is sexist.

    Seriously, Gamers don't give a shit as long as the gamer/game is good. Well written well directed games always succeed whether the character is male female black white or anything else. We are the very example of Martian Luther King Jr's dream. Your skin color and sex don't fucking matter. Your actions matter.

    [–]tossaway4856 1ポイント2ポイント  (24子コメント)

    Milo didn't give a shit about video games before this

    No, but he also wasn't aware of how the community worked and was largely left to the stereotype the media spat out about gamers. About that.

    It's also worth pointing out that the virulent response from multiple websites and subreddits virtually drove the GG community into the hands of websites like Breibart. If you won't give them an inch in the conversation and tell them they're violating rules they're not actually breaking- and if anything, GG actually warranted less if the /r/games meta thread was anything to go by- they'll go to whomever will give them a fair shake as opposed to the folks comparing them to ISIS.

    Apparently the SJW can't look past the crook of their own nose to grasp how their actions may entail consequences that take a bad situation worse. GG didn't go away and you've given political right wing media, and a journalist who freely admits he pens sensationalist drivel a lot of money and articles to publish making them look good for being free speech.

    neither did CHS

    CHS is an academic. Since radical feminists dragged their toxic shit into the discussion, it did warrant her own involvement. This is just you shitting the bed because someone you don't like got involved. Some people do recognize that if feminism isn't self-critical it'll be run into the ground by radicals who are completely off their rocker.

    thunderf00t

    I'm going to just assume you have no knowledge of what thunderf00t does and leave it at that.

    It's all posturing to make money by pandering to a young and impressionable neoreactionary audience.

    You can't prove half of this and you do not know what the other half means. First it was an attempt to claim that reactionary was somehow a pejorative, and now they're neoreactionary.

    It's one of the most annoying culture wars of this generation.

    The hens of years worth of shitting on the nerd community and spreading dishonest propaganda about the hobby have come home to roost. Vague assertions that playing video games makes you a terrorist or a murderer, basement dwelling manchildren, you name it. It was inevitable, really.

    [–]t3achp0kemon 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

    drove the GG community into the hands of websites like Breibart

    You might consider what it means that any even-handed supporters dismiss you and only reactionaries and far-right conservatives are interested in what you have to say.

    GG thinks it's not being given a fair shake, but it's being given the same shake as anyone else. It just isn't good enough to survive anywhere outside of reactionary echo chambers -- that's why GG has fallen out of the popular space and now resides only in those echo chambers and places like this, where they're invited to make fools of themselves in public.

    [–]tossaway4856 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    that's why GG has fallen out of the popular space

    This is of course demonstrated by the fact that it's growing (still) and completely dwarfs this subreddit and GamerGhazi in size.

    where they're invited to make fools of themselves in public.

    The only people making themselves look like idiots are you goons. You don't even get that if the scandal had been handled better rather than throwing everyone out into the night and indiscriminately sweeping people who wanted an actual discussion out with an absurd minority who were most likely there the stir shit up- we probably wouldn't be having this discussion almost a year after the fact. GG isn't slowing down, it's only growing. You can lie to yourself, but object facts exist outside of that whether you like it or not.

    dismiss you and only reactionaries

    Easy there, just because the OP took the award for, "I don't know what this word means but some people told me it was insulting so I'm going to use it left and right!" doesn't mean you need to be runner up. Everything is a reaction to something. A fundamental law of motion relies on this. Then again your post history outs you as a partisan so I'm probably barking up the wrong tree to begin with.

    [–]xeio87 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

    No, but he also wasn't aware of how the community worked and was largely left to the stereotype the media spat out about gamers.

    You mean the stereotypes that Milo spat out. Pretending like Milo isn't part of the media is hilarious.

    [–]Strich-9 5ポイント6ポイント  (8子コメント)

    lol Milo has said far worse things about Gamers than Kotaku or Polgyon or any feminist

    [–]GhostPirateCyborg 6ポイント7ポイント  (7子コメント)

    Remember when Anita called gamers piss-stained beta males who should have their Internet connections taken away by their mums?

    [–]TusconOfMage 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

    That's why they say "Bleached hair BEWARE", right?

    [–]GhostPirateCyborg 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

    The interesting thing to me is that Milo is the person I'd least want to represent a movement for ethics. He basically doesn't understand the concept of "minimize harm", hell, he revels in it. To him journalism isn't a magnifying glass to search for the truth, it's a cudgel to use against his or his movement's detractors. Ethics is not his driving motivation, he said that already. His motivation is "giving feminists a bloody nose".

    So, here's the problem I see with GamerGate. If GamerGate is about ethics in games journalism but they ceremoniously support unethical journalism to combat unethical journalism then it's a wash. The more prominence Milo and Ralph have, the easier it is to dismiss them as shitstirrers. However, they will see Milo's book being successful as their achievement (seriously, just look at their achievements page) and in doing so it's very easy to dismiss the claim "it's about ethics in games journalism" because well, murdering people to cut down on theft seems like a workable solution until you consider the damage. Having an unethical journalist using his publication as a spear against anyone critical of GG is certainly not as hyperbolic as I've made my analogy, but it completely dissolves the "narrative" that GG would like people to know about their consumer revolt/controversy/ethical pursuit.

    [–]TusconOfMage 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    He basically doesn't understand the concept of "minimize harm"

    That's okay. Neither do the GG supporters who think that sites banning the defamatory libel of #BurgersAndFries is the kind of censorship that merits a months-long tantrum.

    [–]GhostPirateCyborg 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Burgers and fries had nothing to do with GamerGate. It's just featured in the first tweet about GamerGate, and if you went to /burgers/ at some point it redirected to /gg/. Other than that and Milo's radio show featuring an ad poking fun at it, it has nothing to do with it at all. I'm sure if I sit and think more about it I can come up with some more stuff that had nothing to do with it as well.

    [–]TaxTime2015/Melisandre/ is always right [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    To him journalism isn't a magnifying glass to search for the truth, it's a cudgel to use against his or his movement's detractors.

    This is what Breitbart was founded on. This is there whole deal.

    [–]Strich-9 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    That's nothing compared to Milo, and that's just his comments on gamers. you should hear him talk about black people and trans people

    [–]GhostPirateCyborg 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Oh I've heard 'em. He's a pretty terrible individual. I just like trotting out that one because it goes to show that GamerGate is against bullies, unless they're carrying water for GamerGate. Then they're all for 'em.

    [–]Ch1mpanz33M1nd53t 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

    drove the GG community into the hands of websites like Breibart

    I just love this logic.

    "If you won't help me with this bullshit I'll be forced to ally with the only sorts of scumbags that will, and then it'll be your fault that I'm involved with those shitheads!"

    [–]Will_Im_Not 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

    It's also worth pointing out that the virulent response from multiple websites and subreddits virtually drove the GG community into the hands of websites like Breibart.

    Lol I love the idea that the GG community was "drove into the arms of Breitbart", as if GG wasn't already filled up with right-wing assholes.

    [–]Areallyprettyseal 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    You should maybe read his flair.

    コメントをもっと表示する (9 返事)

      [–]StillMostlyClueless-Achievement Unlocked- 13ポイント14ポイント  (10子コメント)

      I've been looking around here and I can't find a clear explination.

      https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstGamerGate/comments/2uvulu/what_are_your_main_reasons_to_be_against_gamergate/

      https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstGamerGate/comments/3a3w5d/antigg_why_are_you_against_gamergate/

      https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstGamerGate/comments/2yalqj/gator_here_wondering_what_are_valid_reasons_to_be/

      https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstGamerGate/comments/2kzd1h/give_me_your_best_shot_at_turning_me_against/

      https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstGamerGate/comments/2vu7f5/when_you_say_youre_against_gamergate_what_exactly/

      https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstGamerGate/comments/32l0ti/what_are_your_current_arguments_against_gamergate/

      https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstGamerGate/comments/2lt8nc/why_are_you_antigg/

      This is just the first page of an "Against Gamergate" search.

      I'm gonna go with "Lack of fact checking" as my reason.

      [–]stopsayingfaggotAnti-GG 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

      https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstGamerGate/comments/2vu7f5/when_you_say_youre_against_gamergate_what_exactly/

      Huh, I missed that one. Adding it to my list.

      [–][削除されました]  (8子コメント)

      [deleted]

        [–]youchoobDen Mother[M] 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

        Rule 2.

        Plus Don't be an Ass to new people.

        [–]StillMostlyClueless-Achievement Unlocked- 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Petty Vengeance received

        [–]Ch1mpanz33M1nd53t 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Can the rest of that thread stay so I at least get to keep my petty victory?

        [–]StillMostlyClueless-Achievement Unlocked- 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

        Actually

        https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstGamerGate/comments/3bq6ux/why_are_you_against_gamergate/

        does.

        yes I'm petty too

        [–]Ch1mpanz33M1nd53t 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

        That's just this thread.

        Which was not "one of those" in your original list.

        [pettiness intensifies]

        [–]StillMostlyClueless-Achievement Unlocked- 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

        .... Darn it.

        You win this time, but don't think I'll ever forget this. One day I will have my petty, petty vengeance.

        [–]SJWarrior101 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

        A lot of issues really. The obvious first - only a fool would be against ethics in journalism, that said its my experience that the vast majority of discourse online by g/g has not concerned ethics in journalism.

        The thing that concerns me most is the obsession with feminism and the constant criticism of social justice. And yes I mean social justice as well as "SJW". The number of times I have either taken part in or witnessed ignorance on the meaning of social justice, or some of the basics of feminism is quite frankly, shocking.

        The method seems to be to swallow whatever the popular youtube content maker of the day is selling and to repeat ad nauseum. How is it possible to have a discussion with people about serious issues if they don't understand the concepts, even after being politely invited to aquaint themselves with some basic theory?

        Perhaps I'm wrong in thinking that these people represent gamergate and I know there are some gators out there who are familiar with social justice and argue from an intelligent perspective. And there are many of my fellow gamers within g/g who have been radicalised / propogandised / exploited by some of those benefiting from the anti feminist / anti social justice (warrior) narrative. This makes me sad and angry.

        It would be too long to mention other reasons which are manifold - some of which have already been articulated. But in summary:

        Journalism is corrupt - we've known this for longer than a year. The tripple As are a greater threat to the future of gaming than feminism. Unqualified support of free market and free speech is an ideological political position. Gamergate does not speak for all gamers. Buzzwords are not cool. Sarcastic, unfunny humour in a hugbox is cringeworthy. Disgusted by the origins of gamergate, just ugh - I even feel bad for gators on this.

        [–]ryargerAnti/Neutral 15ポイント16ポイント  (112子コメント)

        OP, do you believe that sexism and racism have a large effect in shaping modern, western society?

        Statistically, if you support GG you don't accept facts like the gender wage gap, or the need for affirmative action. You probably believe that the Charleston shooting was a random act and not a symptom of a deep problem with race relations. You probably think that "male privilege" and "white privilege" are either non-existent or trivial.

        KiA, /gamergatehq/ and #gamergate are places where these ideas are aired daily with virtually no opposition. They are at the heart and soul of GamerGate.

        That's the most important reason I'm against GG- it fundamentally has nothing to do with ethics and everything to do with being anti-feminist and anti-SJ.

        You can add to that:

        • Deeply Anti-free speech while fooling itself into believing that anti-censorship is a core value

        • Willing to defend the indefensible in order to retain allies. Just in the past couple of days we've had Adam Baldwin's anti-LGBT rants and a bizarre defense of debt collectors. (To be fair, I was happy to see the VAST majority of KiA very happy about the SCOTUS ruling.)

        • An inability to look around and see all of the larger groups that don't have harassment and toxicity issues. They continue to insist that "all large groups have bad actors" or "this is just how the Internet is" when those things are simply not true.

        There is much more but it all becomes noise against the general theme of KiA day in and day out - "we don't hate women! But let's talk about all of these evil women and also talk about how white men have it so much worse than everyone else".

        [–]DissentientPro-GG 3ポイント4ポイント  (46子コメント)

        Not OP, but gonna answer.

        do you believe that sexism and racism have a large effect in shaping modern, western society?

        Incomparably smaller than they were 100 years ago. I believe that in modern wastern society both genders have issues of equal importance, but only one gender's problems get attention.

        Racism is a problem in itself, but it's also a symptom of other problems, like poverty in black communities and education system generally sucking.

        don't accept facts like the gender wage gap

        There's no such thing as significant wage gap, if you define wage gap as a man being paid more for the same job with same qualifications. There may be 5% difference tops. 20%+ figures come from comparing a total of wages of all men and women, which does not fit that definition. If women choose to work less hours and make careers in fields, where there's less demand for workforce, it's not a society's problem, since they chose to get jobs that pay less to get some other advantages.

        or the need for affirmative action

        I find affirmative action to be counter-productive. No one should get special treatment based on race or gender, everyone should get equal opportunities. Society doesn't benefit from discrimination, be it 'positive' one or negative one. It's better to make sure that people who deserve positions, get them, regardless of their race, gender, orientation or disabilities.

        You probably think that "male privilege" and "white privilege" are either non-existent or trivial.

        In america white privilege exists and is not trivial. There's no such thing as male privilege in western society, it's sexist in a way that both genders have equally significant advantages and disadvantages.

        I am pro social justice, but I'm against many popular brands of 'social justice' that I don't find helpful.

        [–]TaxTime2015/Melisandre/ is always right 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

        I think you have it backwards. Povery is the result of racism. From the New Deal being extremely racist (Black people.were for the most part excluded from Social Security) to Redlining to the USDA racially discriminating through the 90's when giving loans to farmers ( see Pigford).

        [–]Manception 18ポイント19ポイント  (30子コメント)

        There's no such thing as significant wage gap...

        There may be 5% difference tops.

        Then give me 5% of your salary, if it's insignificant.

        I'll donate it to charity.

        [–]Dashing_SnowPro-GG 1ポイント2ポイント  (15子コメント)

        How do you know they don't already? Also there isn't a difference in most jobs really only in salaried jobs. In which case it could honestly just be negotiating. If there was an actual consistent 20% gap companies would only hire females cutting your worker costs by 20% would be insanely profitable.

        [–]t3achp0kemon 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

        that would actually solve the wage gaps because putting women into salaried and leadership positions would mean women would have a say in wages!

        [–]Manception 11ポイント12ポイント  (10子コメント)

        Why would companies hire workers they think are so inferior, incapable and unworthy? Does not compute.

        [–]Doc-ock-rokc [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

        Fun fact. The same 5% diffrence is found between single men and men with families. Single women seem to earn more then single men in the same study. Which is why many economists think it has to do with family people getting out of work to take care of their kids and such rather then sex. Which is logical seeing that they log in about 5% less time average then a single worker.

        コメントをもっと表示する (13 返事)

          [–]ryargerAnti/Neutral 13ポイント14ポイント  (11子コメント)

          Thanks for your reply. While I disagree with your opinions mostly, I don't think they make you a bad person or anything like that.

          My point to the OP is that your opinions here are what make you a GamerGater. Much, much more than any desire to improve ethics in gaming journalism.

          Many anti-GGers will agree with you on gaming journalism topics. Very few anti-GGers will agree with you on these SJ topics.

          [–]DissentientPro-GG 8ポイント9ポイント  (10子コメント)

          Well, one of the problems I see with the other side of SJ is that they aren't that good at handling disagreement.

          You ability to agree to disagree without calling me a monster makes you way better than those people.

          My point was that majority of gamergate holds views similar to mine, and are also pro social justice, but disagree with methods and priorities of people they call 'social justice warriors'.

          [–]lucben999 2ポイント3ポイント  (9子コメント)

          They often don't call you a monster to your face, but dig up your info and call your employer to tell them you're a monster, all after giving you a friendly smile when you were dealing with them directly.

          See what happened with the Honey Badgers at Calgary Expo. Just polite disagreements and healthy discussions during the actual panel, but as soon as they left and were no longer face-to-face, the SJWs reported them with false accusations of harassment and disrupting a panel, then they called the police on them when they were meeting at a public park.

          [–]Trorbes 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

          It took me half the post before realizing you weren't commenting on Gamergaters.

          [–]SHOW_ME_YOUR_GOATSMakes Your Games 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

          They often don't call you a monster to your face, but dig up your info and call your employer to tell them you're a monster,

          your talking about GamerGaters right?

          See what happened with the Honey Badgers at Calgary Expo. Just polite disagreements and healthy discussions during the actual panel, but as soon as they left and were no longer face-to-face, the SJWs reported them with false accusations of harassment and disrupting a panel

          Completely ignoring that they applied under false pretenses, represent a dangerous MRA group that is not welcome at cons, and set up a GamerGate booth dispute never being approved for it. But go ahead and pretend it was because the SJWs.

          Lets not forget that the only person in Canada who would take their case was a disbared lawyer with a history of theft and fraud.

          [–]eastanglianterrible1 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Statistically, if you support GG you don't accept facts like the gender wage gap, or the need for affirmative action.

          I don't think you understand how statistics work.

          [–]Dashing_SnowPro-GG -2ポイント-1ポイント  (53子コメント)

          Wage gap drops to around 5% when you control for everything. Not perfect but absolutely not the 20% plus that is bandied about.

          コメントをもっと表示する (10 返事)

            [–]Manception 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

            One of several reasons is that GG demands respect and empathy that it refuses to show itself. Bigoted slurs are just fun jokes, but critical words about gamers is serious business. FPH is sacred free speech, Polygon expressing opinions GG dislikes is not.

            [–]macinnebAnti-GG 22ポイント23ポイント  (180子コメント)

            This thread again?

            Because I refuse to support a faceless mob that's incapable of accountability, for one. That's one of many reasons that people have clearly stated the last 800 of these posts.

            [–]GenderConfusedSquidPro-GG[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (179子コメント)

            Do you mind if I counter some of what you have said?

            [–]macinnebAnti-GG 10ポイント11ポイント  (178子コメント)

            The only thing you can "counter" with is "But I LIKE faceless mobs!" So there's not a whole lot of point as at this point it's just a matter of preference.

            [–]GenderConfusedSquidPro-GG[S] 11ポイント12ポイント  (177子コメント)

            Please don't put words in my mouth, because now i'm going to return the favor and put words in your mouth and take that as a "yes".

            Any large group is going to be made up of people you don't know. Yes, they are anonymous, but how else could it be?

            Also you said that gg is incapable of accountability. I would like to point out that groups of people are rarely accountable for the actions of insiders. Does a school punish all students for the actions of one? Should all police officers be accounttable fuerguson? Should muslims be accounable for the actions of islamic terrorists? No!

            A group should never be held accountable for the actions of insiders, unless that behavour was a direct result of values held by that group! GG is a fight for better ethics in games journalism (I know that gets repeated alot but it is true!)

            No-one is arguing that poeple like Zoe Quinn and Anita weren't harrassed by people who where members of GG. But that doesn't change GG's main objective which I strongly support. I hate harrasment against anybody. The treatments of both pro and anti gg'ers has been disgusting.

            [–]fernsauce 24ポイント25ポイント  (88子コメント)

            Also you said that gg is incapable of accountability. I would like to point out that groups of people are rarely accountable for the actions of insiders. Does a school punish all students for the actions of one? Should all police officers be accounttable fuerguson? Should muslims be accounable for the actions of islamic terrorists? No!

            Generally, they punish the people responsible. GG doesn't really like to do that, and any suggestion of "hey this guy is a dick" is met with the Tone Policing Hammer. Any suggestion that "hey, we shouldn't associate with rape apologists / Holocaust deniers / "human-biodiversity advocates" / literal, card-carrying fascists / marital rape advocates / people with storied histories of stalking girls on YouTube" gets shot down with accusations of being a shill, attempting to sabotage GG. For example!

            GG is also a political movement, which is fundamentally different from being a social class. It's an adopted label, not one decided by circumstance of birth. By adopting a label, you are asking people to judge you based on the collective. You are to some degree assimilating for the purpose of political power. GG doesn't get to have its cake and eat it too, to unite for a common cause but to avoid any of the pitfalls of teaming up with assholes. It is simply not how the world works.

            Finally, you have to understand that what people consider bad is more broad than "literal death and rape threats." Those are the most extreme examples. When it comes to "being shitty assholes," it's not anonymous people who happen to be on the same side as GG, it's GG's spokesmen and figureheads, the people GG absolutely adores and loves as reflected in upvoted KiA threads, Twitter retweets, and 8chan threads. It's very easy to argue that few gators actually participate in sending rape, death threats. This is typical of strawmen.

            Oh, also, it's incredibly naive to think that GG's main objective is exactly as they say it is. Notice how the people who happen to be declared unethical is a fucking perfect match for "political enemies of GG." KiA has more threads about SJW's and feminists+feminism than it does about journalism or ethics. Most of GG's targets are not journalists. Several of GG's figureheads have absolutely no interest in games or games journalism, and are only participants because of GG's extremely strong, extremely obvious political agenda. GG giving lip service to ethics every once in a while doesn't change what it fundamentally is about. And everyone fucking knows what it fundamentally is about, or none of us would be here.

            Essentially: dysfunctional moral compass + extremely obvious political agenda + willingness to use ~bad tactics~ + that weird propensity for people to get harassed every time GG fixates on them + a complete unwillingness on the part of GG to change in the least, or even to admit that their movement has serious, damning problems = a shit salad.

            [–]meheleventyoneAnti-GG 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

            For example!

            What happens when someone calls out GG harassment.

            Spoilers It get's downplayed and people take affront at the idea that harassing a bunch of people via their hash-tag is a bad thing to do. Although it's heartening to see lots of people saying GG does do bad things in the comments even if it get routinely denied over here.

            [–]t3achp0kemon 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

            It get's downplayed and people take affront at the idea that harassing a bunch of people via their hash-tag is a bad thing to do

            .

            Shitposting lets us blow off steam. We've given them facts. They've had 9 months to collect real fucking evidence. What they find evidence for? nothing but listen and believe. and omitting evidence to support the narrative. https://saraarahman.wordpress.com/2015/06/29/biased-cyberhate-researcher-my-response/[1]

            Fuck them. They can't do their job. Now they get My little Pony.

            +16

            コメントをもっと表示する (86 返事)

              [–]Paladinlost 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

              This is a pretty bad post...just saying....

              Any large group is going to be made up of people you don't know. Yes, they are anonymous, but how else could it be?

              He was talking about the lack of centralized leadership and accountability. GamerGate has accomplishments when it's beneficial, but it's the actions of a small minority when it's detrimental, even though there's no real evidence that GamerGate caused or didn't cause any of it. Generally, we'd like to attribute all actions that are tangentially or ideologically connected to GamerGate to GamerGate, but GG only accepts the ones they like.

              I don't know how you really could have misinterpreted his statement so badly.

              Also you said that gg is incapable of accountability.

              This is a correct statement.

              I would like to point out that groups of people are rarely accountable for the actions of insiders.

              This sentence makes very little sense. Groups are often punished for the actions of their leadership. Go ask a Greek pensioner, who is now facing a lose-lose situation where his pension may be devalued by austerity or devalued by massive inflation when the drachma inevitably crumbles. And the money he has saved is trapped inside a state bank about your claim.

              Does a school punish all students for the actions of one?

              You're connecting "blame" with "responsibility", and that's not the same thing. Blame denotes a punishment state. Responsibility does not. The threatening actions that have come from GamerGate should be blamed on the people who made them and nobody else. However, GamerGate is responsible for their lack of accountability and inability to outgroup people and ideas that are leading to the wildly disparate messages and actions that often disregard or are ethical breaches themselves that happen under the GamerGate banner.

              In your metaphor, there may be situations where a group of students is held responsible, while one is blamed. If the students enabled an action, but only one took the action, for example.

              Should all police officers be accounttable fuerguson?

              Yes. They shouldn't be blamed, but the lack of accountability for police officers has been an issue for years. The right action seems to be taken - body cameras for police officers.

              Should muslims be accounable for the actions of islamic terrorists?

              Actually, in a lot of ways, they should - muslim scholars have been woefully loathe to chastise fundamentalist viewpoints and ideologies, such as Wahabism for misinterpretation - if they can murder atheists for apostasy, and Islam is a religion of peace, why not hang the jihadists for heresy?

              A group should never be held accountable for the actions of insiders, unless that behavour was a direct result of values held by that group! GG is a fight for better ethics in games journalism (I know that gets repeated alot but it is true!)

              The instant GG formally acknowledges that and renounces the anti-feminists, MRAs, racists, culture warriors, and other scumbags who have nothing to do with Games Journalism, I'll fucking believe that.

              No-one is arguing that poeple like Zoe Quinn and Anita weren't harrassed by people who where members of GG.

              I can't recall a single story about anybody being harassed by GG that wasn't instantly met with claims of false flag allegations and/or blaming it on GNAA, Ayyteam, or /baph/, if not Anti-GG themselves.

              ut that doesn't change GG's main objective which I strongly support.

              Absolutely. You wouldn't find many anti-GGs who actively refuse a inquiry into the quality and fairness of Games Journalism. My problems with GG are structural and compositional, not pure ideological - We can argue about what exactly GG's ideology is, but if it is as you state, I have no issues.

              However, if you believe GG can function as that in its current state and does not require systematic overhaul, then I disagree with you fully.

              [–]DocileBanalBovine 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I don't know how you really could have misinterpreted his statement so badly.

              After ten months of it, my conclusion is 'it's easier than dealing with what they actually say'

              [–]TheBostonPopsOlder than you 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

              Does a school punish all students for the actions of one?

              Not the same.

              Should all police officers be accounttable fuerguson?

              Not the same.

              Should muslims be accounable for the actions of islamic terrorists?

              Not the same.

              GG is a fight for better ethics in games journalism (I know that gets repeated alot but it is true!)

              Among a lot of other things. GamerGate is not at all just a fight for "better ethics in games journalism."

              No-one is arguing that poeple like Zoe Quinn and Anita weren't harrassed by people who where members of GG.

              Stick around, see what some people who wear the tag of "Pro-GG" write. You'd be surprised.

              [–]judgeholden72 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Not only is it not all the same, but the chief of police of Ferguson did lose his job. He did not commit Ferguson, but he had to take responsibility.

              There's no one to take responsibility for GGs actions. Conveniently, it's always "well I didn't do that," even though they support it by supporting a faceless organization that anyone can do anything they want with.

              [–]macinnebAnti-GG 21ポイント22ポイント  (30子コメント)

              I would like to point out that groups of people are rarely accountable for the actions of insiders

              Wut. Wut wut wut. All my wut. Politicians are frequently held accountable based on many different groups they're in. If a Democrat steps out of line then the party has to take accountability for the actions or distance themselves from the person.

              A group should never be held accountable for the actions of insiders, unless that behavour was a direct result of values held by that group!

              Okay. What are GG's values? Guess what - since it's a faceless mob you'll literally never have a straight, true answer to that. Therefore it's hard to take them seriously as a 'movement' if they can't even get the most simple of things straight - its aim.

              [–]GenderConfusedSquidPro-GG[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (29子コメント)

              If a Democrat steps out of line then the party has to take accountability for the actions or distance themselves from the person.

              And they distance themselves from the person, proving my point. In any group you will get good people and bad, and allowing the bad to affect your view of the group as a whole is never a good thing

              [–]macinnebAnti-GG 11ポイント12ポイント  (28子コメント)

              Okay, how does GG without a consensus on any single topic distance itself from the harassers? Trick question, it can't, because as long as you lack any infrastructure whatsoever the next jackass that uses the #GG hashtag is no less representative of GG than the next.

              [–]GenderConfusedSquidPro-GG[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (27子コメント)

              But there is a structure to GG. /r/kia and 8chans /gamergate/ are clear centres of discussion and activity.

              [–]NefariousBananaTurned Heel on Ghazi 11ポイント12ポイント  (9子コメント)

              But there's infighting between those boards. There's probably plenty of people on /GG/ who hate KiA and vice versa. Who's to say that all of their opinions on gamergate are all identical?

              [–]macinnebAnti-GG 14ポイント15ポイント  (16子コメント)

              Really? Because whenever someone points to something shitty repeating itself on KiA, they go "But noooo KiA isn't representative of GG, 8chan is" then when really awful things show up there they go "nooooo that isn't either!"

              Because it's all a mob with no structure there's no way to ACTUALLY distancce yourself from shitty things.

              [–]GenderConfusedSquidPro-GG[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (15子コメント)

              Really? Because whenever someone points to something shitty repeating itself on KiA, they go "But noooo KiA isn't representative of GG, 8chan is" then when really awful things show up there they go "nooooo that isn't either!"

              Who says that? And even if they did, so what? It clearly isn't true.

              You keep saying GG is a mob with no structure. Even if it was, so what?

              [–]Ch1mpanz33M1nd53t 10ポイント11ポイント  (52子コメント)

              GG is a fight for better ethics in games journalism (I know that gets repeated alot but it is true!)

              How do you know that it's true?

              [–]TaxTime2015/Melisandre/ is always right 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

              Is there a reason you are being a dick?

              Like most of his post can be torn to shreds but don't be unwelcoming.

              [–]Ch1mpanz33M1nd53t 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

              Eh? I thought that was one of my less dickish comments!

              [–]Mournhold 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Seriously, I was thinking the same thing. I was actually impressed with your response here since so many of your other comments are pretty shitty, at least in my opinion.

              Damned if you do, damned if you don't, huh?

              [–]TaxTime2015/Melisandre/ is always right 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Just thought I should call out "my side". You seemed to be acting a bit like a dick.

              Also:

              Bonobos4life

              コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                [–]GenderConfusedSquidPro-GG[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (46子コメント)

                Take the front page of /r/kotakuinaction right now. You have posts like:

                Leigh Alexander (PR for Sunset) supports Javy Gwaltney on Patreon. Five months later, Gwaltney gives Sunset 9.0/10 with no disclosure in the review.

                BBC Apologises to Grant Shapps - Shapps Writes to Wikipedia Formally Requesting Disclosure as Clouds Gather Over Embattled Encyclopaedia (GamerGate mentioned extensively)

                Kotaku writer jumps the gun to complain about Barbara Gordon in Arkham Knight. Admits he didn't finish the game, so he has no idea how that scene plays out.

                These are clearly focused on GG's main objective. Admitadly a lot of posts are also commenting on radical social justice ideas in media, but I would argue that is also a part of GG.

                If you take a look at the GG achievements list then you will see that the majorty are journalism focused things like:

                Kotaku editor Stephen Totilo releases a statement regarding their stance on Patreon donations

                The Guardian edits their article, "How to attack a woman who works in video gaming" with a partial disclaimer stating author Jenn Frank financially supported Zoe Quinn's game, Depression Quest

                Breitbart releases an article about GamerGate's Anti-Bullying Campaign and how it cost Gawker over a million dollars

                [–]stopsayingfaggotAnti-GG 28ポイント29ポイント  (2子コメント)

                The Guardian edits their article, "How to attack a woman who works in video gaming" with a partial disclaimer stating author Jenn Frank financially supported Zoe Quinn's game, Depression Quest

                Oh for fuck's sake.

                Do you not know what actually happened here? Jenn Frank wrote an article for The Guardian, condemning the harassment received by Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkeesian. When she submitted her article, she notified The Guardian that she contributes to Zoe's Patreon and had once met Anita, but The Guardian sensibly didn't bother to include these things in the article since they didn't amount to a conflict of interest.

                Of course, GamerGate then did their usual ethics background check, found out about the connection with Zoe, decided that she was another corrupt video game journalist, and made her the newest target for their harassment and hate, to the point where she felt compelled at the time to leave gaming journalism entirely. The Guardian then edited the piece to include that disclaimer, not because they thought it was warranted by their ethical standards, but at her request so that people would back off and stop harassing her.

                The fact that you consider this disgusting affair to be one of your "accomplishments" says everything that needs to be said about the utter worthlessness of your so-called movement for journalistic ethics. GamerGate doesn't care about the terrible effect that your so-called ethics campaign can have on others, so long as your arbitrary and irrational demand to be appeased by journalists can be satisfied.

                [–]judgeholden72 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Do you know it isn't even required, or overly common, for financial journalists to disclose when they own a stock they're reporting on?

                Let alone business journalists, who absolutely never disclose this. And these are people that stand to make money, lots, or lose lots, whereas Patreon donors have no financial stake at all.

                [–]TweetsInCommentsBot 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                @jennatar

                2014-09-03 21:31 UTC

                .@_Pumpkinbomb @FDZ095323 @stillgray You know what? HERE. I *can* share the first draft I emailed, I am sure:

                [Attached pic] [Imgur rehost]

                This message was created by a bot

                [Contact creator][Source code]

                [–]ALLAH_WAS_A_SANDWORM 18ポイント19ポイント  (16子コメント)

                I can do cherry-picked samples too. How about the ten most upvoted posts from the top of KiA

                • A joke making fun of Reddit CEO Ellen Pao is removed for "harassment" after receiving more than 3000 upvotes. (archive.is)

                Not related to ethics in games journalism. Or games. Or journalism

                • User banned from /r/Planetside after using a meme which involved the word "trap" and is forced to submit a 500 line of text essay on the impact of transphobia in America in order for the ban to be lifted. (i.imgur.com)

                Not related to ethics in games journalism. Or journalism. Barely about games.

                • Voat.co's provider, hosteurope.de, shuts down voat's servers due to "political incorrectness" (voat.co)

                Not related to ethics in games journalism. Or games. Or journalism

                • Reddit CEO Ellen Pao: "It's not our site's goal to be a completely free-speech platform" (businessinsider.com.au)

                Not related to ethics in games journalism. Or games. Or journalism

                • Judge tentatively orders Ellen Pao to pay more than $275,000 in court costs to fmr employer Kleiner Perkins (twitter.com)

                Not related to ethics in games journalism. Or games. Or journalism

                • Reddit interim CEO Ellen Pao is asking her previous employer for $2.7M for a guarantee that she won't appeal, threads on this keep getting deleted. (archive.is)

                Not related to ethics in games journalism. Or games. Or journalism

                • Reddit, then and now (i.imgur.com)

                Complaint about removals in /r/news. Not related to ethics in games journalism. Or games. Or journalism

                • News articles on the Ellen Pao $276k legal fee news item were deleted at least 15 times on reddit. Most deletions were on default subreddits. (Archive from /r/undelete) (archive.is)

                Not related to ethics in games journalism. Or games. Or journalism

                • this picture was removed from r/funny for harrasment, it sums up the recent pao events nicely in my opinion (i.imgur.com)

                Not related to ethics in games journalism. Or games. Or journalism

                • TPP talk isn't allowed in /r/news for being too political, but apparently the confederate flag and marriage equality aren't political

                Not related to ethics in games journalism. Or games. Or journalism

                The most highly upvoted posts in KiA have literally nothing to do with "ethics in games journalism" and everything to do with "actually is about politics we dislike in... stuff".

                [–]meheleventyoneAnti-GG 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Leigh Alexander (PR for Sunset) supports Javy Gwaltney on Patreon. Five months later, Gwaltney gives Sunset 9.0/10 with no disclosure in the review.

                This isn't even factually accurate how ethical is it to not bother to verify the facts before dragging peoples names through the mud?

                [–]ALLAH_WAS_A_SANDWORM 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Paraphrasing Nixon, "It's not unethical when GG does it".

                [–]an_oni_moose 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

                These are clearly focused on GG's main objective

                Making mountains out of molehills?

                [–]Ch1mpanz33M1nd53t 18ポイント19ポイント  (4子コメント)

                How many of those achievements improved games journalism?

                A bunch of them are advertisers pulling out of sites, before later realizing that they'd been bullshitted.

                Plus the whole "we made FTC change their policies" thing is a load of shit.

                There are a lot of "we raised money for charity!" things which are a) unrelated to gaming journalism and b) just taking credit for anonymous online actions (despite the fact that GG constantly insists that it can't be held responsible for anonymous online actions).

                Have I missed any actual improvements to gaming journalism in there? The closest things are some sites publishing or re-wording their existing policies. Which resulted in... GG continuing to try to destroy those sites. And no other actual change.

                [–]GenderConfusedSquidPro-GG[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

                If your going to take the piss out of my spelling, we can't have a discussion (For anyone else it's the deleted comment) Get someone else to post if you want me to respond to that.

                [–]Ch1mpanz33M1nd53t 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I find it amusing that you come here to defend a movement who's favourite noun is "fag" but you get so upset at someone mocking your shitty spelling you have to run away with the vapours.

                You people pick really weird shit to be precious about.

                [–]Ch1mpanz33M1nd53t 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

                So ignore the deleted comment and respond to this one.

                [–]macinnebAnti-GG 10ポイント11ポイント  (17子コメント)

                Really, because when I look at the front page I see mostly skeleton drama.

                [–]GenderConfusedSquidPro-GG[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (16子コメント)

                skeleton drama.

                Could you explain?

                [–]macinnebAnti-GG 12ポイント13ポイント  (15子コメント)

                SJW drama. I have a chrome extension that turns the word SJW into skeleton.

                [–]le_epic_redditeur 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

                It started off as a harassment/slut-shaming campaign against vocal women game devs/critics and hasn't really gotten much better since then. Now it's basically just annoying. I dunno. I just wish GGers would move on with their lives and stop saying stupid shit all the time and harassing women like it's their job.

                [–]woxxon 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

                I have this little hangup about shitheads.

                For at least a few years now, it's become increasingly obvious to me and quite a number of others, that a significant portion of the visible, online constituency of "gamers" are just awful, shitty people. One day, almost a year ago now, they all got together under one umbrella.

                More than any other issue, I'm against gamergate simply because from everything I've seen, it's comprised- almost totally- by vile, disgusting, just truly terrible people. Nearly any thread, even on this subreddit, can provide ample evidence of that being the case. And honestly if this fact isn't readily apparent and quite obvious, I'd suggest a bit of a look in the mirror. I'm borderline done with this subreddit, gamergate, and probably just reddit altogether, from sheer exhaustion of having to be down in the mud to observe these people. Their general incivility is more erosive than I anticipated.

                [–]thepinkservbot 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Yup, agree with every last word. Nearly 20 years of experiencing the shittiness of not just the "gamer" community but most nerd communities overall is what made me stand up and cheer after reading Alexander's original "Gamers Are Over" article. And yeah, just as you said, I've yet to have any experience, any interaction, or any observation with either an individual GG'er or any of the GG "spaces" that has left me with any impression other than that GamerGate is nothing but a unification of all of these shitty elements, and that ABSOLUTELY includes present company on this subreddit.

                I still pay attention to this subreddit because of certain contributors and because of GamerGate's connection to an overall larger problem with the internet and nerd hobbiest communities, but as far as contributing beyond the occasional comment? Pfft, forget that. This thread and the dozens of other "WHY DON'T YOU LIKE GAMERGATE" threads just like it (every 14 days, someone said) are a testament to the fact that this subreddit's stated message has run out of steam. Someone comes in and "oh gosh gee whiz just can't really understand why someone would have a problem with gamergate?????", yet has a sheet of GamerGate talking points a mile long at ready. Anti-GG responds, pro-GG responds to them, nobody's mind is changed. Repeat ad nauseam. And it's not just those individual threads, it's the whole damn board. I certainly do see a community, but "healthy discussion" that results in anyone budging on anything? Fuck no.

                Not that it should really be any other way. The GamerGate issue, contained purely to itself, is not only over with, but it has been over with for months. The OT content of this subreddit and CERTAINLY /KiA/ increases more and more with each day because nothing is fucking happening. What's the latest GG issue again? Tauriq Moosa got chased off Twitter? Not exactly what I'd call riveting, important stuff.

                So yeah, definitely don't feel bad about bailing on this shit, it's the only sensible thing. Reddit as a whole, though, shouldn't be given up on, as there are a lot of really good resources here and, just like anywhere else (except for the chans), there isn't any especially noticeable deficiency of decent people. And believe me, I'm no Reddit fanboy. Someone caught me posting on Reddit once and said "oh I didn't know you were redditor!" and I just about puked in their face.

                [–]judgeholden72 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I have seen minds changed, but I believe only by people's own "side." In other words, someone sees transphobia rampant in KiA and goes "no way do I want to partner up with these people," or someone sees venom from the AGG side and says "wait, this seems like an overreaction to people that may be misguided but are trying to do something good."

                [–]meheleventyoneAnti-GG 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Why would I support such a toxic movement full of horrible people whose crowning achievement is the harassment of women who for the most part aren't even journalists (the purported target) to the point it was national news?

                It would be silly to do so and claim I cared about ethics at the same time.

                [–]sovietterran 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Because GG uses anon-tactics to accomplish things that need a face to accomplish, the Maury level E-Celeb drama is drowning out real issues, and the hashtag is too vague to piecemeal out what I can support and what I can't.

                I don't consider myself aGG because that label has been weaponized and I am not Ghazi's or aGG's shield. That doesn't mean I'm pro-GG though.

                [–]TaxTime2015/Melisandre/ is always right 9ポイント10ポイント  (15子コメント)

                Okay. I am anti because I am anti reactionary. I actually have no hard investment in vidya (unlike a lot of people on both sides). I am hoping to stop a non zero amount of people from developing into reactionaries.

                [–]0101010101029384494 2ポイント3ポイント  (11子コメント)

                Assuming you feel gamergate = reactionary, how do you feel about the statement "anti gamergate is gamergate's best recruiting tool"?

                [–]TaxTime2015/Melisandre/ is always right 1ポイント2ポイント  (10子コメント)

                Then "we" are doing it wrong. But honestly whether they support GG or not the people.that are "disgusted" by Ghazi but not KiA aren't really worth it.

                [–]0101010101029384494 1ポイント2ポイント  (9子コメント)

                But honestly whether they support GG or not the people.that are "disgusted" by Ghazi but not KiA aren't really worth it.

                That's the kind of thing that pushes people towards kia.

                [–]TaxTime2015/Melisandre/ is always right 2ポイント3ポイント  (8子コメント)

                You do know what you are doing has a name? It is called concern trolling. I am sure if I didn't call racists fuckwads maybe they would listen to me. /s

                I honestly don't know.how anyone can be pro GG unless they are already prone yo conaiparacy. Every reputable news organization that reported on it paint it horrible. If you believe Breitbart is more trustworthy that. Literally every other organization you might not be worth it, yet. A lot of them will grow up. That is how a lot of people became antis.

                [–]0101010101029384494 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

                concern trolling

                But I'm not claiming to be anti gg. My initial post towards you even implies that I don't think gg is reactionary. It's more that I find it hilarious and surreal how it all works out. I mean look at the initial massive swells of people to gg, they were in reaction to gamers are dead and censorship stuff. I say this based on the timing and the sheer amount of people that say that that's how they got into it.

                I am sure if I didn't call racists fuckwads maybe they would listen to me. /s

                Are you calling 44k+ people you don't know racists? That's the type of thing I'm talking about. People go to kia and ghazi and see that type of thing is not the case and that kia generally welcomes people with open arms and allows people they might disagree with despite the size of that disagreement.

                I honestly don't know.how anyone can be pro GG unless they are already prone yo conaiparacy.

                What ideology doesn't have some sort of conspiracy theory? The idea that gg has a subreddit of 44k people that bans doxxing/calls for harassment but that is just a front some secret cabal of anons (that occupy like a percent of the communication) to organize doxx/send out death threats/harass is itself a conspiracy theory.

                Every reputable news organization that reported on it paint it horrible. If you believe Breitbart is more trustworthy that. Literally every other organization you might not be worth it, yet. A lot of them will grow up. That is how a lot of people became antis.

                Reputable and "every" is debatable. Most of the media is screwed up and this is generally accepted except for when it agrees with one's personal beliefs. And that includes breitbart. Saying I believe they are more trustworthy is putting words in my mouth. It's obvious that the only reason they are interested in gamergate is to use gamergate to recruit/a proxy against the left. But they are at least somewhat telling gamergate's side of things. I don't agree with breitbart's interpretation of all of it but they are putting the information up instead of taking the game journalists being called out, at their word so of course gg is going to at least give them a chance.

                And yeah it's a lot of gossippy bullshit but it's often entertaining and sometimes it is on point. Anti does the same thing though, gossip and enjoy whatever they might find entertaining at the moment.

                you might not be worth it, yet. A lot of them will grow up. That is how a lot of people became antis.

                Doesn't that seem excessively condescending?

                [–]TaxTime2015/Melisandre/ is always right -1ポイント0ポイント  (6子コメント)

                1. You don't understand what concern trolling is. It isn't like an Internet troll. It is a disingenuous advice you offer the other side. Happens all the time in politics.

                2. Misunderstood my argument. I wasn't talking about GG (who I do treat fairly nice which is why I am here and not Ghazi) I was talking about racist fuckwads from /r/coontown to /r/HBD.

                3. Strawman. I think I have a pretty good understanding of GG. And they do in fact have secret meetings, what do you think B&F was?

                4. The NYT is the most reputable news paper in America. Between the BBC and The Guardian you have two of the most reputable sources in the U.K. I mentioned Breitbart because they are the exception and have the reputation of utter shit since the very first story they broke (ACORN).

                5. Yep. But plenty of antis in this sub have said they would have joined.if they were younger when it happened and that is why they are anti. I have pretty much been SJW4life. A brief ironic racist phase at like 15 that I stopped when I realized my friends weren't being as ironic as me.

                [–]0101010101029384494 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

                1. It is sincere in that I believe if anti had a nicer attitude it would be more effective. I don't think one can easily argue against this when you consider that just about everything involving recruitment or persuasion of some sort requires being nice. Salesmen, politicians, their campaign people, military recruiters etc. It simply comes with the territory.

                2. I see. I simply assumed because this is agg.

                3. Was b&f secret? I was under the impression that it was just another irc that people congregate at just like how there's a kia irc and snoonet irc(?) and other things like that. I was not under the impression that it was private though. But even if it is my point isn't solely hinged on a password but also control the grand conspiracy of tens of thousands of people being cover. That seems like a wilder claim to me than journalists with political/financial incentives to use the concepts of social justice/diversity/inclusivity/harassment to deflect from their behavior. If one, why not the other?

                4. I maintain that reputable is debatable and from multiple angles. 4.1 The media in general is under more scrutiny for topics with more at stake such as wars, politics, financial things. But in general gossipy stuff about the "tech industry" and "gaming" for the most part have not been on people's radar in nearly the same way. But I will also add to this point that there are so many conflicting incentives that I am cynical of the media in general even for more neutral stuff. For example the guardian is centre left according to wikipedia (if you trust that assessment) and if you believe that gg is a conservative movement, doesn't that call into question where their incentives lay? And before you go back to "prone to conspiracy", this applies to breitbart, and gg ecelebs too. It's just a human nature thing I suppose.

                4.2 What I have read on kia in conjunction with the articles themselves does not lead me to believe that it was really done in good faith. Meaning, what I read in an article does not match up with what I can easily view with my own eyes, therefore for me the reputation of at least the person/division is tarnished somewhat.

                1. That might be true, but there seem to be plenty of actually/obviously old pro ggers. I don't think I've actually seen any polls regarding age in pro or anti gg but I don't see agg as having more of a claim to older people than pro gg. There are plenty of proggers that have said a similar statement in regards to how they used to be anti or used to be a sjw but for whatever reason saw otherwise.

                [–]TaxTime2015/Melisandre/ is always right [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

                1. I don't know your sincerity. I think you might be genuinely curious. (I think you are probably a throw away account of a heavy Reddit User. Guideline 5 violation but I have had some weird trolls and what not). I think I might have a different definition of that term then most people do. And I don't know if this fits it. To be honest the thing to kick it off was me not being able to be creative and come up with better words.

                2. IDK. I have been on the chans and know they migrate. But as an anon movement hopefully the trackers go with them. To me you have the order backwords. Tyler White critisized a term then you found "bad behavior." This is what I think happened 100% of the time with the quotes maybe taken off occassionally.

                3. Which gets to this. I am sure the NYT has a technology writer or two. But I can replicate their experiments. Were you on twitter reading peoples replies before GGAB? I was. I read so much horrible stuff. And kn the chans and on KiA. You should always be skeptical of media. That is a good thing. But I have my experience and those of others that I can listen to.

                4. Yes of course. Those people are mostly lost forever. Only mental health proffessionals can help them. But that is me being all Michael Savage so I guess bad?

                [–]0101010101029384494 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

                5: If a comment is breaking the rules, report it with a reason why it was reported rather than reply to it. Don’t be baited by it. If you proceed to break the rules in a reply, you will also be subject to appropriate action.

                1. I don't know how I'm violating that. Aren't most of the accounts at this board throwaways? Prior to this account I have never posted on a gamergate related board. But even before this account I was still pretty much just a lurker. I'm aware that this one has kind of racked up a lot of posts in a short time, but I would imagine many of us (in general) just get in that sort of mood from time to time.

                But to reiterate on the sincerity part, it's advice that I think you would read in any book about how to persuade people of something or how to sell something. But, I think it conflicts with the personality a lot of anti's have so I don't think pointing it out will do any have any negative effect on the side I favor.

                1. Idk who Tyler white is, but with the chan drama I don't think I payed much attention outside of the more notable events like the initial migration to 8chan, the migration from the original gg board and the attempted(?) migration to ggrevolt. And it's kind of funny though, the chan people are always saying how reddit/kia are kind of in their own shit tier but they are the only ones that have played musical chairs in regards to boards whereas kia has been there pretty much since the beginning.

                2. I'm not sure what GGAB stands for, although this moment it just clicked, gg adam baldwin? Tbh I'm not that concerned with it. I think the genetic fallacy applies here imo, in that even though there was a higher % of trolls early on, #gamergate isn't #quinnspiracy or something in that vein and 66 people's claim to represent gg doesn't outweigh tens of thousands of people's claim to represent gg.

                3/4 KIA can be stupid but I think overall it meshes more with your average person than anti places and people so if someone does find themselves wandering into the fray and is not inclined to not give a shit or remain neutral they will usually pick that side or lean towards that side. It's just the giant difference between what is put in articles and what is there in reality. Like the neo/reactionary/conservative thing, that just isn't realistic. There are people like that but to say that it is endemic to gg just doesn't mesh up with what a person will see when they go there.

                Edit to add to 3/4: And the "white male gamer" type of talking points too. On the aspect of "gamers" are mostly white men, that gaming isn't inclusive/diverse, that just hasn't really been the case for most people and I think that is another major difference from article and reality. And the same with gamergate's identity/inclusivity/diversity. How many of these writers talk about how racist gamers are (pcmr) or how gg is fighting diversity and for exclusivity but then the staff of that website will be like 99% white and mostly male. I think gg is pretty diverse, from the ecelebs to the average gater.

                コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                  [–]xeio87 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Gamergate is not about ethics. It's about SJWs and politics.

                  I'm against censorship of politics in gaming (agree with them or not); in game reviews, in gaming publications, or otherwise. Thus I'm essentially forced to oppose #GG on those grounds alone.

                  [–]StillMostlyClueless-Achievement Unlocked- 17ポイント18ポイント  (17子コメント)

                  I'll just quote myself for this one from another thread.

                  Gamergate has a huge slant against the kind of things I personally support.

                  I think they just flat out misunderstood the Gamers are Over articles.
                  I don't think the Mainstream Media is lying about Gamergate.
                  I don't believe Anita or Zoe or anyone is a professional victim.
                  I don't think SJW politics is ruining Games Reviews.
                  I don't believe scores should be free from opinions or personal tastes.
                  I don't think Games Journalists are incapable of separating their personal and professional lives.
                  I don't believe there's any reason to mistrust outlets that have served me perfectly well for years.
                  I really don't believe "Both sides are as bad as each other" or that it'd all cancel out even if it was true. Which it's not.

                  I just don't believe in the core of what Gamergate is. At all.

                  [–]BobmuffinsAnti-GG 13ポイント14ポイント  (93子コメント)

                  Because it doesn't help anyone, but it harms everyone.

                  The sooner it ends the better. It has achieved nothing good, and it's end goal is horrible. It has, however, achieved a fuckton of negative stuff. There is no compelling reason to support it.

                  [–]GenderConfusedSquidPro-GG[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (92子コメント)

                  here

                  [–]GhostPirateCyborg 16ポイント17ポイント  (55子コメント)

                  13% of GG's achievements are disclosure

                  39% of GG's achievements only benefit GG

                  18% of GG's achievements are donations

                  5% of GG's achievements are anti-harassment

                  23% of GG's achievements I've classified as WTF? because I can't find an achievement there

                  2% of GG's achievements are ethics-related

                  The last 2% is a column I call "Dickishness"

                  [–]fernsauce 15ポイント16ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  personal favs:

                  When TotalBiscuit Tweeted about a charity, anti-gg'ers got angry and created the #unsubTB hashtag. GamerGate took over and used it to spread awareness of tuberculosis.

                  also

                  General Motors states that they do not have any sponsorships with Gawker Media nor do they conduct business or have any plans to do so for the future

                  victory?!?!

                  this one is also great

                  A Twitter account spams illegal pornography at the Feminist Frequency twitter account. 4chan users report the offending account for abuse.

                  In general, the 2015 section is utterly wretched. But, even so, the amount of actual accomplishment here is really fucking small.

                  [–]ALLAH_WAS_A_SANDWORM 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  General Motors states that they do not have any sponsorships with Gawker Media nor do they conduct business or have any plans to do so for the future

                  victory?!?!

                  So if I ask GM if they plan to continue supporting FIFA, I can count their "we haven't done so, and it's not explicitly included in our business plan" as a crushing victory against corruption in soccer? Cool. I can imagine Blatter shaking on his boots at the though of a company they've never done business with stating that they've never done business with them.

                  [–]Caelrie 15ポイント16ポイント  (52子コメント)

                  39% of GG's achievements only benefit GG

                  GG is literally a movement that exists solely to harass people who criticize GG. That's really funny when you think about it.

                  [–]SattorinPro-GG 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  Hey now, we've been accused of harassing people who criticize /r/pcmasterrace too!

                  [–]ShodenPro-accountability 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  GG did, people started a witchhunt on the author who wrote a critical article on using "master race". GG found an ethical issue and patted itself on the back ignoring the fact they just proved they target people with opinions they don't like.

                  [–]coherentsheafPro-GG 3ポイント4ポイント  (49子コメント)

                  Absolute nonsense. I never harassed anyone and neither has the bulk of the movement.

                  [–]TusconOfMage 10ポイント11ポイント  (46子コメント)

                  neither has the bulk of the movement

                  I ask this question a lot and never get an answer, but this is a silly thread, so why not?

                  How do you know:

                  • who has harassed anyone
                  • who is a true member of GG
                  • who is a false member of GG

                  [–]an_oni_moose 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  What do you actually do?

                  [–]coherentsheafPro-GG 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  I mostly voice my criticism of several practices in reporting. I am a slactivist, kill me.

                  [–]BobmuffinsAnti-GG 15ポイント16ポイント  (35子コメント)

                  Oh yeah, you annoyed a bunch of gaming news sites into going "ey you dumb fucks, here's the ethics statement we've had on our site all along".

                  Also, notice how we're now in month 7 of 2015, and there exists a whole nine points in 2015? None of which are even remotely significant?

                  • A site got annoyed into saying "don't act dumb, please".
                  • GG completely missing the point of "professional relationships", yet again, and jerking their hateboner off to the thought.
                  • Being annoying and throwing a tantrum because someone said a thing you didn't like, yet again.
                  • This is a win for GG how?
                  • "likely". Okay m8
                  • Ah yes, GG stamping their name on something because one of them mentioned it this one time.
                  • More "don't act dumb."
                  • I've never heard of this one before and the source is a broken archive link. B)
                  • lmao yes because "you're interested in this thing because of us? give us a few cents if you buy it please <3" is such an ethical breach

                  Wow, resounding successes all around! Good job, guys! Great work! You totally haven't done nothing at all these last seven months other than ruin lives! Congrats!

                  Oops, no wait, I lied.

                  [–]GenderConfusedSquidPro-GG[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (34子コメント)

                  We can't have a discussion of you aren't polite/respectful :/

                  [–]StillMostlyClueless-Achievement Unlocked- 14ポイント15ポイント  (33子コメント)

                  Do you think Gamergate is polite and respectful?

                  [–]BobmuffinsAnti-GG 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  Thank you.

                  I wasn't sure how to word it, really my thoughts on this is "GG doesn't deserve polite and respectful at this point", but... yeah no this says it much better.

                  [–]StillMostlyClueless-Achievement Unlocked- 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  I mean GG actively mock the very idea of politeness and respect. That's SJW bullshit to them.

                  The idea of 8 Chan being about politeness and respect has me laughing now. Damn it.

                  [–]SattorinPro-GG 2ポイント3ポイント  (8子コメント)

                  You aren't communicating with "GamerGate". You're communicating with a pro-GG person on /r/againstgamergate. I hope you can see the difference.

                  [–]StillMostlyClueless-Achievement Unlocked- 14ポイント15ポイント  (7子コメント)

                  Yes but that's not my point.

                  This is a thread where they're asking how people can be against Gamergate. So I'm using their own points to show why.

                  [–]SattorinPro-GG 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

                  Yeah, that's a fair point then :)

                  Honestly I just think it's silly to refer to GamerGate as a group at this point. It's much more of a philosophy based around several video-gaming topics, in my opinion.

                  [–]StillMostlyClueless-Achievement Unlocked- 12ポイント13ポイント  (5子コメント)

                  Gamergate refers to itself as a movement or consumer revolt. It wants to be treated as a group when it suits them, but gets annoyed when treated as a group all the time.

                  [–]SattorinPro-GG 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

                  Gamergate refers to itself as a movement or consumer revolt. It wants to be treated as a group when it suits them, but gets annoyed when treated as a group all the time.

                  This comment is exactly why it doesn't make sense to see it as a group. You can take my opinion and say "That's GamerGate". Or an anonymous troll can use the #GamerGate tag and it would instantly represent the "group".

                  That logic is sound whether you like or dislike the principles GG.

                  [–]GenderConfusedSquidPro-GG[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (21子コメント)

                  Why is that important to my comment? Seems like a red-herring.

                  The subject doesn't affect the formaities of a debate.

                  [–]StillMostlyClueless-Achievement Unlocked- 15ポイント16ポイント  (20子コメント)

                  If you believe discussion can only be had when people are polite and respectful, why do you support Gamergate a movement that got kicked out of multiple Subreddits, SA and 4chan for being amazingly irritating?

                  [–]an_oni_moose 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  I support gamergate, because as far as I can see it is a movement that is based around improving gaming journalisms ethical standards.

                  Yeah, that's what they tell you, but what are they actually doing? Harassing people off the internet is easily the biggest, most visible impact the movement has had on anything.

                  [–]DeLoftie 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Yeah another thing that seems to characterize GamerGate is this bizarre assumption that the rest of the world has to take them at their word that they care about ethics and supporting devs because they claim this.

                  This is tipified by the support for causes like TFYC. Lost track of the number of Gators who claimed that they must be the good guys because they supported these charities, as if it was not blatantly obvious that they were only doing it in order to be able to say they were the good guys.

                  GamerGate seem to have a very hard time understanding that the silly "gotcha" tactics are arguing on the Internet don't translate to the real world. You cannot gotcha people into supporting you.

                  [–]DeLoftie 9ポイント10ポイント  (31子コメント)

                  My question is: Why are you against gamergate?

                  Because it is a movement centred around using claims of immoral or unethical behaviour to attack and harass people GG find annoying or don't like. There are not upstanding principles being defended here, this is just about justifying hatred of people who annoy the hornets nest. Plenty of actual discussion of journalism in games has and is taking place, but not in GG. GG isn't the movement you join to have that discussion, it is the movement you join to use that discussion to justify attacking people you find annoying

                  I can go into more detail, but I'll wait to see if you actually care about understanding why people are anti-GG

                  [–]TheKaspAnti-GG / Games Enthusiast 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  I don't support censorship (oh no, someone dares NOT LIKING A VIDYA! I need to shut them down and drive them out of my hugbox industry!). I want games to be art (again, I don't try to drive out other opinions out of the indsutry). I don't need validation from reviewers for my purchasing choices (aka I don't throw a tempter tantrum because someone gave GTA 5 a 9/10). I don't care for most e-celebs on either side. I don't want to be affiliated with TRP, PUA, MRA, FPH and all that other BS.

                  And I don't want to be affiliated with a movement that supported the depiction and hosting of child pornography.

                  So yeah... That's the very short version.

                  My answer from an older thread.

                  [–]Ch1mpanz33M1nd53t 7ポイント8ポイント  (7子コメント)

                  I've been looking around here and I can't find a clear explination.

                  You mustn't have looked very hard, because there's a new thread like this every week or so.

                  [–]youchoobDen Mother 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Literally 14 Days

                  [–]GenderConfusedSquidPro-GG[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

                  I haven't been on here for very long. Also I didn't use the search (which was dumb, my bad). Honestly I want to discuss with someone about why they fell a certain way, and not just read it from the text as I often have some questions that go unanswered.

                  [–]Ch1mpanz33M1nd53t 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

                  I support gamergate, because as far as I can see it is a movement that is based around improving gaming journalisms ethical standards.

                  This is not what I (or anyone against GG) sees. Given that "as far as you can see" doesn't include far enough to see anyone else explain why they're against GG, my advice would be to look a bit closer.

                  [–]paulrei 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  why do these threads keep getting approved and why do they still receive even semi-serious responses instead of FYAD-style mockery for not using the search function

                  [–]dimechimesAnti-GG 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  I'm against it, because gaming journalism (blogs, reviews, etc.) is just really unimportant to me compared to the other issues in gaming. Sexism isn't the biggest issue I have because it is still prevalent in a lot of other areas, but it is more so in gaming.

                  So when a woman comes out and says stuff is messed up, I don't really care. I do agree with her though and when a large segment of gaming gets in a delirium over her it makes me feel this is more important than I originally thought.

                  At first I could go to KiA and lurk and talk about issues respectfully with people. Then the other groups started glomming on and trying to co-opt the energy and spirit of KiA it became harder and harder to have those discussions. Next thing I know Breitbart articles are making the front page and as an unapologetic lefty that kind of sealed the deal for me.

                  [–]t3achp0kemon 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

                  you will find good people and bad people

                  Why are gamergaters so consistently bad in the same ways?

                  muslims, christians, teachers, whites, blacks

                  You guys really have to stop comparing yourselves to races and religions because it makes you look tremendously disingenuous but also really, really stupid.

                  [–]TusconOfMage 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

                  it makes you look

                  "foolish" or "silly" might be a better way to end that sentence.

                  [–]t3achp0kemon 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

                  would not, however, convey my meaning.

                  [–]TusconOfMage 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  Yeah, but it's not very polite to libel the mentally disabled by comparing them to GG supporters who by all rights ought to know better.

                  [–]battle_pigeon 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Apologies , I thought Calerire's comment was yours. Didn't realize you were new on the subthread.

                  [–]namae_nankaWARNING: Was nearly on topic once -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Because they're vacillating between the neutral stance vs. the feminist stance of 'poor women are getting discriminated out of fair equality". They need to push the third view of discrimination against men against all opposition and shove it down its throat so they'll shut the fuck up.

                  Besides, their own belief in the herstory makes them susceptible to the conclusions that their enemies thus draw from those premises. They're simply not enough.