上位 200 件のコメント表示する 500

[–]foldingcouch 481ポイント482ポイント x2 (187子コメント)

I was hoping that when more information came out about the ban that it wouldn't look as heavy-handed and stupid as it had, but this just confirms my worst fears. This is a terrible decision, because it's retroactively punishing someone that is not a danger to the community, does nothing to promote community safety, and may actually reduce overall safety of players in Magic tournaments.

The official reasoning is that they don't want players to "feel unsafe." Note that they use "feel" unsafe, as opposed to actually "be" unsafe. Zach Jesse is no threat to anyone. He has a conviction, he served the sentence imposed by law, and the courts decided that he was free to continue on with his life given the conditions of his sentence. The law has decided that he's no threat. That doesn't matter, though, because people might feel unsafe knowing that a convicted sex offender could be at a Magic tournament. So he's banned.

BUT WAIT, surely if the goal is to make people feel safe, they'd institute some kind of blanket policy that says something like "nobody that is a registered sex offender can play in sanctioned tournaments," right? Nope, wrong, no comment. WotC is not doing anything proactive to actually address player safety. There's no policy, no measures in place, no plan. All they did was ban someone who has spent a decade attempting to rebuild his life after a bad decision that wasn't a threat to anyone. If you're a sex offender, carry on attending tournaments and playing with kids, just don't draw attention to yourself by doing something like winning, or being open about your past and attempting to atone for your sins.

This decision does nothing more than punish someone for something they did a decade ago that has no relationship to actual player safety. In fact, if anything this stance is making players less safe, because if anyone in Magic happens to be a sex offender, they are definitely not going to disclose their status so WotC can have an accurate understanding of actual player safety concerns and develop a meaningful policy to enhance player security. This just forces it further away from the light of day.

Everything about this screams "irrational knee-jerk reaction," and WotC deserves to be raked over the coals for it. I sincerely hope Zach has some legal recourse that he can exercise, because this policy is both short-sighted and dangerous for the community.

[–]0ffendid 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

As I said elsewhere, and because I don't want to spend more energy paraphrasing myself (or getting angrier over this decision):

Zach Jesse, to the best of my limited knowledge, has never presented himself as the poster child for anything, but by taking this action, WOTC has identified him as a one dimensional individual bent on destroying their brand. I'm all for WOTC protecting their brand, but at the expense of an individual who has served his sentence, worked to make amends, and never did anything other than play the game, this lifetime banning is ridiculous.

[–]Not_Pictured 62ポイント63ポイント  (130子コメント)

I'm sure he has no legal recourse, we bitching about it are his only recourse.

[–]belisaurius 107ポイント108ポイント  (103子コメント)

There's an argument that could be made about defamation and damage to character. He could, if he wanted to, drag this whole situation through the courts. I doubt he will though, since it appears the reformed-rapist and felon is ACTUALLY THE MOST PROFESSIONAL AND MORAL PERSON IN THIS WHOLE FIASCO /rant

[–]holynorth 8ポイント9ポイント  (19子コメント)

There's virtually no legal recourse. Felons aren't a protect class and he would have to prove the statement by Wizard's/Levin as false. Since he actually is a felon, good luck with that.

[–]elbenji 4ポイント5ポイント  (10子コメント)

He has his liberties back though, that's the thing, and this has affected his employment as a writer

[–]holynorth 2ポイント3ポイント  (9子コメント)

Yes he has liberties. But the manner in which those liberties were "taken away" is not illegal.

It's a sad situation, but the law is not on his side. The US really puts down criminals.

[–]elbenji 0ポイント1ポイント  (8子コメント)

True. He does have a case, but its not super typical. The company in question overrode the hiring practices of another company, so the parent company can sue

[–]holynorth 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

Indirectly through something that is entirely within their power, as well as in the terms he agreed to when playing MTGO.

[–]niknight_ml 13ポイント14ポイント  (14子コメント)

To prevail in a defamation suit, Zach would need to prove that what Drew said was false.

[–]youmustchooseaname 12ポイント13ポイント  (58子コメント)

based on what law? Convicted felon is not a protected class. Beyond that DCI's ToS states they can get rid of you for whatever reason.

[–]Nixons_BACK 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

I took right to privacy and there are some, albeit few, precedents for violating privacy common law when, for example, newspapers publish information regarding the criminal history of a reformed individual who has maintained a clean record, found full-time employment, started a family, etc. Generally court proceedings and criminal records are publicly available so it's a weak case, and courts tend to balance the 1st Amendment rights of media against the privacy rights of individuals in favor of the former. A few courts have held in favor of the individual, but they are the minority. I can provide more information when I get home and have a chance to review my notes.

[–]VitalyO 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I also don't see how he has a claim (since the defamation is true...), but what does protected class have anything to do with this?

[–]SpliffyYoda 9ポイント10ポイント  (14子コメント)

Remember Prerelease is coming.. Speak with your wallets.

[–]niknight_ml 18ポイント19ポイント  (6子コメント)

The stores have already paid for their prerelease kits. If you boycott the prerelease, you aren't hurting WotC, you're hurting your LGS.

[–]SpliffyYoda 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes which is a good thing because the LGS will also have to complain to wizards this is the way that voting with your wallet works.

People get hurt; because no body gives a fuck about anything until it hurts them.

[–]madhatted 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Poor pre-release results will pressure the stores on Wizards, however both would have to agree that reduced attendance is caused by this incident.

[–]nowthatsaname 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Poor pre-release results

So my regular 0-3 drop?

[–]xahhfink6 11ポイント12ポイント  (4子コメント)

How do I get my wallet to say "Hasbro's decisions are ruining an otherwise-great game for its players"?

[–]EvilGenius007 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd try googly eyes and a caption. Or you could record it and upload it to YouTube. (Ventriloquism lessons optional, IMO just keep your mouth off camera.)

[–]7thPwnist[S,🍰] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Hey, I just edited the OP to have numbers you can call to contact them, if you so desire.

[–]xahhfink6 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you. I definitely think that asking Hasbro for a further comment or for a formal policy on pro players with criminal records would do a lot more than a few people skipping a prerelease.

[–]mtg_liebestod 114ポイント115ポイント  (28子コメント)

WotC is not doing anything proactive to actually address player safety. There's no policy, no measures in place, no plan. All they did was ban someone who has spent a decade attempting to rebuild his life after a bad decision that wasn't a threat to anyone.

No, they banned someone who upset Twitter and would've created bad PR if he had continued success in competitive Magic.

That's the real, sad cynical story here: It's not merely that they aren't serious about making Magic safe, but that they're simply afraid of what might happen if Gawker starts writing articles about convicted rapists (which imo is a fair label) achieving success in this hobby community. Even the SJWs should be unhappy about this one. This is worse than an "irrational knee-jerk reaction" - it's in fact a very-calculated reaction meant to address a perceived threat to Wizards' branding.

I like Matt Ling's tweet here, though: "If WOTC knew about PR, they'd know that banning ZJ would cause 95% community to defend a convicted rapist. That looks bad." Yep.

[–]drewson87 43ポイント44ポイント  (3子コメント)

Mike Tyson, also a convicted rapist, has become a kind of media darling lately with The Hangover and other stuff. He has a cartoon now. Snoop Dogg is like the go-to inoffensive black guy and he was charged with multiple murders and wrote songs about killing police officers. People should be given the opportunity to turn their life around after serving their sentence.

[–]SteveGuillerm 33ポイント34ポイント  (2子コメント)

Ice-T wrote and sang "Cop Killer" in 1992. By 2000, he was starring on Law and Order: SVU.

I feel like Hasbro's really underestimated people's ability to change, or for the public to accept that people change.

[–]Jarka_Ruus 17ポイント18ポイント  (5子コメント)

if Gawker starts writing articles about convicted rapists (which imo is a fair label)

Is it wrong of me to point out that Virginia legally defines rape and aggravated sexual battery as two different things? Jesse plead guilty to aggravated sexual battery, not rape.

I did assume he was convicted in Virginia because he was attending UVA. The laws may be different if he was convicted in a different state.

[–]mtg_liebestod 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

I don't think it's wrong. I remember having this argument last month (or whenever it was when Jesse was last in the news), which is basically that although he didn't plead to a rape charge the set of facts that he did plead to would colloquially be considered rape (and they would have likely supported a rape conviction had they been accepted by a jury.) Basically, I think the hair-splitting over whether he's actually a rapist is unproductive.

[–]elbenji 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

True but in a legal/slander case, that's extremely important. He isn't a rapist by law, he's a sex offender (which means nothing, but yknow, loopholes to get paid off)

[–]elbenji 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Rule #1: don't make martyrs

[–]badmagicplayer 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

I get what the company has been trying to do - introduce more female characters into stories, promote gender equality and diversity, create the first major transgendered fantasy leader (Alesha) and lore, and generally fight against sexism. I get that, and that's great.

This decision seems to follow that line of philosophy, eliminating any possible cultural threat to deter female participation. Sure, someone with a history of a sexual assault could pose a threat to perceived safety, but this has had no affect on ACTUAL safety. Zach has worked to reform and had paid (and continues to, as evidenced by this banning) his debt to society, and has proven by his PUBLIC actions that he poses no more an actual safety threat than anyone else at a Magic event. But Hasbro/WotC appears to care more about perceived threats than actual problems, as that seems to be the case here. I perceive safety concerns from other players at large events all the time, like those who get really angry when they lose and act like they're about to throw a chair or something - but those people don't get banned. And how many people have violent or property crimes on their records and don't get banned for being a security threat?

Assuming that there were no private conversations or messages or other activity that we don't and probably will never know about, this seems like an overstep towards the business trend to eliminate any potential sexism or threat towards female players. The philosophy is a good one, but the way it's carried out appears not.

But then again, Hasbro/WotC has always eliminated whatever seems negative to the game and its brand - remember the GP buttcrack photo guy and his ban?

[–]mtg_liebestod 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Again, I think you're giving Wizards too much credit in arguing that this is actually about promoting safety. If that were the primary concern, Wizards would just articulate a policy that says that violent felons can't have DCI numbers. Instead, they chose to go after only a high-profile violent felon. The italicized part appears to be key, and it shouldn't be if Wizards' stated goals were its actual goals.

[–]Sonicpulsar 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'd like to contact WotC in the most meaningful, impactful way concerning my disagreement with their decision. What would be the best way to do this?

[–]7thPwnist[S,🍰] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know if its the best way--but this is the way we've been doing it: look at the OP now, I've edited it with numbers you can call.

[–]Garrub 215ポイント216ポイント  (5子コメント)

On the bright side, Zach never has to deal with MTGO v4 issues again.

[–]Gaming_Loser 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

I don't think there is enough money he could be compensated for having to play that version.

[–]zajoba 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I started playing right around the V3-V4 switch and have never actually played on the old client. What was so great about it? It looks like it runs a bit quicker in the old videos I watch, but the interface looks pretty unintuitive.

[–]UninterestinUsername 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

What exactly is unintuitive about it compared to v4? I personally find v3 a lot more intuitive than v4, but that's cause I've played like 100x more on v3 than v4, so I'm clearly biased.

[–]desymond 214ポイント215ポイント  (45子コメント)

Man, Fuck Drew Levin.

[–]craven_trout 62ポイント63ポイント  (22子コメント)

I'll buy the shirt if you print them.

[–]spawnoftheking 14ポイント15ポイント  (15子コメント)

Same. XL. I like Navy blue or Caribbean blue. Let me know.

[–]desymond 35ポイント36ポイント  (14子コメント)

Idk. Wearing them might get us banned.

[–]Yogurt_Popsicle 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

Drew Levin makes me feel unsafe. I feel that he should be banned now because he creates unsafe environments that promote bullying of players.

[–]flipt 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I know your being snarky, however I 100% agree with you.

[–]individual_throwaway 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

I could imagine no greater badge of honor than being banned over calling out Drew Levin on a shirt.

[–]spawnoftheking 10ポイント11ポイント  (10子コメント)

Can't actually spell out Fuck, that's consider assault or something.

F&@$ Drew Levin though, that should be fine.

[–]desymond 31ポイント32ポイント  (6子コメント)

It's still iffy territory though. What if Drew Levin begins to feel unsafe about our t-shirts? Caribbean blue can be an alarming color to some.

[–]Ice_Cold345 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hey, it could be in Spring Green.

[–]spawnoftheking 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

I will happily take my shirt off and exert physical prowess if we have to go that route.

Or turn it inside out. Whichever works for Wizards.

[–]ravenouscraving 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

I suddenly want a shirt with a mildly offensive slogan that has something extremely offensive printed on the inside of it.

[–]Tezzerator 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

Seconded.

[–]Rakyn87 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

But then I'd have to decide if I wanted to wear that or my underground dojo keyboard cagefighter shirt.

[–]zajoba 24ポイント25ポイント  (3子コメント)

Twitter is now protected, seems like he was just fine spewing horseshit a month ago as loud as he can, but now he's shrinking away?

[–]Dingareth 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's called being a coward.

[–]fe-addict 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, he set his account to private shortly after the story hit Reddit this morning. What a coward to cause a shitstorm then not be willing to face the outcry when it gets turned against him.

[–]Cishet_Shitlord 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's all fun and games until you see the results.

[–]kaiseresc 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

he set a mob against Zach Jesse, without substantial evidence that Zach was, in fact, a menace to the public. Wizards did NOTHING to that dickwad. Brilliant.

[–]Phijit 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you look at levin's linkin, this is what he did for a living. Dig up dirt on political candidates. Why he used this skill against zach and no one else, I have no idea. But he is a professional dirt digger.

[–]FUCK_DREW_LEVIN 26ポイント27ポイント  (1子コメント)

Like my user?

[–]jjness 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

You registered it just for this shitstorm. Boo. Relevant usernames are only good if you've had them for months or years prior to the event they reference.

[–]GoSuckOnACactus 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well if you do that, you'll get banned by the DCI.

[–]Rakyn87 141ポイント142ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't know Jesse personally, but he has handled this with way more professionalism then I could say WOTC or Hasbro has.

I'm not gonna be "that guy" that calls for a boycot or whatever, but I do wish there were some way I could show my support for him. What has happened to him is flat out wrong.

When a person who was involved in the Criminal Justice System is able to get their life together and contribute to society, they should be rewarded, not punished. What an absolute sham.

[–]maxwellb 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

Personally I'm certainly not boycotting anything, but the lack of transparency and apparent caving to a twitter mob does take some significant shine off the hobby.

[–]jMS_44 101ポイント102ポイント  (5子コメント)

Honestly I lost a lot of respect torwards WotC/Hasbro for this. I may understand that Zach criminal past shows magic community in kind of bad light, especially if it was publicized so widely, but this man done bad thing, this is under any question, but he was punished for it and undergone resocialization most likely. What was done here is to presume that you cann't change after that and once you're a bad man, you will stay a bad man forever and because of that you can't have cool hobbies and act like a normal guy right now and should be excluded from all these stuff.

So now if we want to compete in a Competetive REL event we have to distribute our files to WotC so they can confirm we don't have any criminal past of any kind?

[–]Pascal3000 54ポイント55ポイント  (1子コメント)

You realize one of the game's greatest and most vocal embassadors, also a magic Hall of Famer, has a known criminal past?

I realise drug dealing and sex offenses are different and one subject is significantly more touchy than the other, but i feel like anyone who has legally served for his crimes and is trying to work out his life for the better deserves a second chance.

The Magic community has always been about being accepting and offering a niche to social outcasts. It seems highly hypocritical to me to drop these ideals just because some twitter/reddit circlejerk decided he should continue to be guilty for the rest of his life.

[–]mtg_liebestod 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

So now if we want to compete in a Competetive REL event we have to distribute our files to WotC so they can confirm we don't have any criminal past of any kind?

Nah, only if it's a high-level event and you're getting close to being on-camera in a feature match.

[–]Telhelki 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

A good response to this would be to do exactly that. Drown them in the paperwork needed to perform background checks on everyone who wishes to compete in any official tournament.

[–]TheBroccoliPlot 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

So now if we want to compete in a Competetive REL event we have to distribute our files to WotC so they can confirm we don't have any criminal past of any kind?

That's the sad part. They don't actually care about your past or if you pose a threat. They only care if someone makes a twitter storm about it.

[–]zajoba 81ポイント82ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is disgusting. Picture the smile on Drew Levin's smug fucking face right now.

Congrats WOTC and warrior of justice Levin. You've banned an active and positively contributing member of the community. All this does is set the precedent that if you stir up enough of a witch hunt, WOTC will panic and hand down a heavier punishment than people who have been cheating for years, on-camera, and repeat offenders who come back and are banned again.

[–]elovia 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

Reminder that Drew Levin isn't the only scumbag here.

LSV also uses the "feel unsafe" argument even though the court deemed him perfectly safe when he was released from prison.

EDH figurehead Sheldon Menery would have been "happy to hang the guy"

[–]safeguard77 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean, SM basically has the responsibility/control of the Commander format, and does nothing for it beyond farting away about terrible battle cruiser magic.

[–]Darktidemage 111ポイント112ポイント  (46子コメント)

"I asked whether I could sell my collection or whether I could perhaps donate the cards in my collection to my friends’ accounts. I was told that I would not be allowed onto my account again"

This is fucking ludacris. You should own the MTGO cards the same as paper magic cards. When they ban you they don't confiscate your paper collection - but they make us pay FULL RETAIL for MTGO cards and then they can just vanish them at any moment?

Fuck that.

Selling my MTGO collection ASAP.

[–]Kerrus 36ポイント37ポイント  (3子コメント)

it's ludicrous, yeah.

[–]Snifflets 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Maybe the thought of it accurately compares to star rapper Ludacris.

Edit: The real question now is, "How is a quotation having sex with star rapper Ludacris?"

[–]kickdrive 15ポイント16ポイント  (6子コメント)

There is probably some TOS buried somewhere that you agree to when you sign up.

[–]Raigeko13 25ポイント26ポイント  (4子コメント)

There is. From /u/mtgnolaw 's comment from the other thread:

A friendly reminder: no matter how much time or money you've invested, Wizards of the Coast can shut down your MTGO account at any time, for any reason, and without providing you with any form of compensation. When you build a collection on MTGO, you do so at your own risk. This is just one of many excellent reasons to steer clear of it.

"... [WIZARDS] MAY, IN ITS SOLE DISCRETION AND WITHOUT NOTICE, TERMINATE YOUR ACCESS TO THE GAME AND GAME SERVICES, AND SUSPEND OR DEACTIVATE YOUR ACCOUNTS WITH NO LIABILITY TO IT RELATING THERETO."

[–]Apellosine 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

Even if what you have done was not an action that is against the tos. JUST basically because we don't like something that you did a decade ago and is getting press.

[–]DRUMS11 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Worse than that, they can do it just because someone running MTGO is having a bad day. Maybe your user name reminds them of an ex-girlfriend/wife/best friend or their dog that just died. POOF There goes your account.

[–]DRUMS11 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

One of the reasons I stay away from MTGO.

"Hey, pay us for these digital objects that we can take away at any time, with absolutely no compensation, just because we feel like it!"

[–]stravant 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

If course there is, but there always is for effectively every modern digital product, and you can't do anything about it other than hope that it won't be used against you.

[–]Blackout28 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

This only confirms the fear many people have about investing hundreds or thousands of dollars into digital objects.

I expect some people will be selling their collections shortly after reading this.

[–]Niggga_Wtf_Is_JUICE 24ポイント25ポイント  (7子コメント)

Yeah I agree, I have been thinking about selling and this is the final straw, just straight up stealing his collection.

[–]facep0lluti0n 20ポイント21ポイント  (4子コメント)

This whole week has been the last straw for me. Jesse getting arbitrarily banned, artist getting fired, no Duels on Android, etc. No way I'm giving hundreds of my hard-earned dollars into such a game when my money could go to cheaper hobbies or to support my career.

[–]Grifwich 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT NO DUELS ON ANDROID

damn.

[–]TuesdayRB 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Which artist got fired? I've been busy and didn't notice it.

[–]ChaosHazard 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Peter Mohrbacher, there's a whole discussion about it on his post about his last piece that he did (for Titan of Erebos).

[–]Rakyn87 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you read further it states they are compensating him financially based on the worth of his cards, which he himself described as an "not unfair" amount.

That being said, this is still wrong, just not for that reason.

[–]worldchrisis 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

You don't own anything connected to your MTGO account.

[–]internetjay 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, this is fucking Ludacris

[–]youmustchooseaname 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Nothing in your account is actually yours, aside from the actual account. I'd imagine this is the same in every other online game.

[–]Darktidemage 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

regardless of the fact it is "not actually mine" that doesn't mean they HAVE to take it away from you. They can still let you keep using it, sell it, transfer it. Instead they are just deleting it.

There is a difference between "I don't actually own it but I am in control of it" vs "It's now gone and i don't have it anymore".

One is acceptable. I don't own it - so if the server is blown up or melts I can't SUE wotc for my cards that got destroyed. This is an acceptable legal construct. But the other really isn't acceptable - they are flexing the "you don't own it" card at an individual player. They should never do that. They should say "you don't own it but you control it however you want, for life, as long as the server runs" that should be the promise they make to users.

So accepting they are LEGALLY ALLOWED to delete it - because they own it - doesn't answer the question "why would they actually do that just because they are legally allowed to do it"?

[–]Joemoose13 3ポイント4ポイント  (7子コメント)

I agree with you completely.

Just to clarify though, I do not use MTGO but I would like to ask, has anyone fully read the terms and agreement when you sign your account up? There could be something in there in the fine print that mentions something along the line of: "If your account gets banned, you release ownership of the cards in your account".

Either way, this is a huge fiasco on WotC and Hasbo's part IMO.

[–]worldchrisis 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

You never have ownership of any digital objects associated with your account.

[–]Joemoose13 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks for the info!

[–]Dariusraider 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Basically every online service has such clauses, that´s nothing surprising or new. Though it is unfortunate that digital rights are in such a state.

EDIT: or hey, let´s quote the User agreement:

"Wizards may, at any time, for any reason and in its sole discretion, terminate this User Agreement, deactivate your Accounts, or discontinue the Game Service with or without notice to you and with no liability to you."

Then after a list of specific reasons why they might terminate the agreement(not that they need a reason) follows:

"Upon termination of the User Agreement, for any reason or no reason whatsoever, by either you or Wizards: (w) you will immediately discontinue use of the Game, the Game Service, and your Accounts; (x) all license and rights granted to you under this User Agreement will immediately terminate; (y) you will promptly delete all copies of the Software; and (z) will immediately forfeit the right to use all your Digital Objects. Any fees associated with your use of the Game and the Game Service are payable in advance and not refundable in whole or in part. Your obligation to pay accrued charges and fees will survive any termination of the User Agreement."

[–]DRUMS11 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Your obligation to pay accrued charges and fees will survive any termination of the User Agreement.

"We're eliminating all of your stuff and any digital currency (i.e. tickets) you may have; but, we're going to collect on anything we think you owe us."

[–]BassoonHero 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

If your account gets banned, you release ownership of the cards in your account

There are no cards, and there is no ownership of cards. There are only bits on a server, and WotC owns the server. The cards are not a real thing that has an owner.

This is why I buy physical media -- Wizards of the Coast may go to great lengths to create the illusion of owning a collection of cards, but in reality, you don't own a damn thing.

[–]Guido5770 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You probably don't own the account in the TOS.

[–]satellite_uplink 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Well, it's like your iTunes account. You don't own those tracks, you can't givevthem to anyone, if you die you can't pass your account on.

They're not your cards, bottom line, they're WOTCs Cards that they're letting you use

[–]Akamesama 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

It has been known info for quite some time that MTGO collections are not actually your property. There are some digital rights and ownership laws over in Europe that attempted and have helped out consumers but the United States and plenty on European countries lack such laws so companies can pull collections of music/games/etc as per their ELUA. It sucks and has stunted my interest in basically all digital content distribution, especially systems like MTGO.

[–]Darktidemage 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's "known" that you don't own it. But i've never seen it come into actual play before.

I felt like it was just that way for obscure legal purposes, not to actually snatch the collection away from a paying customer that bought it from you.

Seems like the worst possible move ever for trying to convince people to collect online cards.

[–]Akamesama 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

They have confiscated accounts of people that are requesting too many reimbursements (4-8 weeks ago). It also came up years ago when there was a large server outage and a few players lost their collection (though Wizards did a fairly good job at restoring important cards and approximate value, after some initial poor legal PR). And similar cases have occurred on other digital platforms.

[–]skipdog172 121ポイント122ポイント  (7子コメント)

This whole thing just has me furious at wotc and Drew Levin.

We really need as many community figures as possible to come out and loudly proclaim their opposition to this decision.

It sets a terribly frightening precedent.

[–]SelfMadeMe 79ポイント80ポイント  (5子コメント)

Let us not forget that Sheldon Menery, LSV & co were very quick to jump on the "ban the rapist fearmongering dramaqueen" bandwagon, as one can see when looking at their tweets, some of which can be found in the original thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/35q0yx/in_light_of_recent_discussion_a_post_by_zach_jesse/

[–]BennyKB 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Where is LSV's comment?

[–]sithsniper17 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

He didn't comment on the thread afaik, but someone linked a Twitter conversation involving him.

[–]impyshaz 79ポイント80ポイント  (4子コメント)

If the U.S. Government says you've paid your dues to society then I think you should be allowed to attend events open to the public.

[–]Akamesama 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Certainly WotC has the right to institute any non-discriminatory policies about attending tournaments they run or allowing access to their system. However, socially the US is very hostile towards ex-cons and this correlates very well with high recidivism rates (among other things) so it would be in everyone's best interest to be more accepting. In addition to that, there is a good argument that the confiscating of the MTGO account is a breach of 'good faith' purchases but if it were heard in the US I doubt that this would be a strong enough of a position.

[–]holynorth 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Until legislation is passed that protects felons from discrimination, this will always be an issue. Unfortunately, that will never happen.

[–]Sve7en 61ポイント62ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm impressed with how level headed he can be. Good on him for handling it like an adult at least. It's nice to hear he may get some compensation for his MTGO account, although it's going to be hard for him to produce content now...

[–]Dagan42 27ポイント28ポイント  (3子コメント)

He should just get into competitive hearthstone.

[–]facep0lluti0n 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

It would only cost him a fraction of what his MTGO account is probably worth.

[–]Dagan42 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yea, I think 700 bucks will get you an absolutely complete collection.

[–]ebEliminator 42ポイント43ポイント  (4子コメント)

He's taking it a lot better than I would, I would be angry. Maybe he is too, but is better at handling it. This decision by WOTC is horseshit.

[–]SirSkidMark 23ポイント24ポイント  (3子コメント)

He must have the anger management of a saint.

I'd be throwing stuff.

[–]Raigeko13 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'd be fucking livid. I would be throwing such a bitch fit it would be insane.

[–]emotuba 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

#UndergroundDojoKeyboardCagefighter

[–]Raigeko13 37ポイント38ポイント  (0子コメント)

You done fucked up Wizards. You done really fucked up.

[–]JaJaJalisco 36ポイント37ポイント  (4子コメント)

I have a DUI. RIP Pro mtg aspirations :(

[–]emotuba 23ポイント24ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't feel safe around you because you might drink and drive a car into me at an event.

[–]Maxtortion 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well now you've done it by coming out publicly about it. If you had just kept quiet no one would have known!

[–]jjness 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'll see your name on the ban list, same day as mine. :(

[–]kaiseresc 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Chapin has his own criminal charges. What about it now? I certainly don't see him as a danger to society.

[–]Infersader 25ポイント26ポイント  (3子コメント)

More and more I get the feeling this company is losing touch with reality. Just yesterday there was a post by Peter Mohrbacher about how their new [[Fascist Art Director]] basically fired him because he doesn't like artists using their own styles, something that Magic used to celebrate.

[–]xShaiGuyx 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, it wasn't style. He said specifically that he had less leeway to design the characters he was painting (he was told exactly what the characters looked like), not told not to use his own style. Those are different.

He went on a different aside about styles, but was clear that style had nothing to do with him not painting for Wizards anymore.

[–]MTGCardFetcher 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fascist Art Director - Gatherer, MC, ($)
[[cardname]] to call - not on gatherer = not fetchable

[–]Sandilini 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

To be fair, I don't think the AD had a problem with his style of illustration. Admittedly I cannot speak for him, but his comments were specific to character design. If I had to guess, this probably has a lot to do with his Nissa. His Nissa was based off of someone's photograph of a musician that did not consent to be a reference model. WotC doesn't want to get sued over stuff like that. It's like the graphic designer that used a photographer's image of Obama for the "Hope" poster and was sued. I don't think it was anyone's intention to steal or plagiarize anything, but everyone is so sue-happy these days. I can see where they would pull the reigns on control over the design of their characters. Especially planeswalkers that are the face of magic. They want the main characters to be consistent, and they certainly don't want to tango with any potential lawsuits. The artist's name is on the card, but WotC is going to take the heat if anything goes down over images on their cards. It's unfortunate that things have to be this way, but that's how our world works these days.

[–]Vyraal1 30ポイント31ポイント  (1子コメント)

So branding does trump over someone's life?

[–]BrunoVonUno 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's corperate america, for ya'.

[–]nhogan1984 31ポイント32ポイント  (0子コメント)

Far more classy than WOTC has been. Zach, well done and Godspeed on your future endeavors.

[–]Bobwise 19ポイント20ポイント  (2子コメント)

Let's talk about the irony of this happening the same week that Gideon Jura's backstory is published in Uncharted Realms. Gideon is also a convicted felon, but Gideon is given the opportunity to prove his value to society and not have his past crimes held against him.

[–]MrBolas 26ポイント27ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is so sad. I'm sorry for this guy. If this part of my life was taken from me because of mistakes in my youth I would be heartbroken. I would go on obviously, but a piece of my self, personality, social circles, loves would be gone. If this is to be the judgment, exile, WOTC have some fucking balls and explain why the criminal justice system wasnt enough of a punishment for this guy. Shame.

[–]darthsword8 19ポイント20ポイント  (2子コメント)

If this stands, than WoTC/ the DCI should be expected to go around and find ALL players with similar past transgression and revoke their ability to play. If he is the only one that this happens to, then this is just a fucked up attempt at persecuting someone who is actively making a difference in his community and move past this dark time in his life just as a show of force to say they are keeping the community and player base clean.

[–]Goodnametaken 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Patrick Chapin, for one, should be banned for life.

At this point, Wizard's should institute mandatory background checks for everyone playing in a sanctioned event.

[–]holynorth 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm sure if more were brought to public attention they may do the same. But to say that they MUST do background checks for every player they have, well that's just insane.

[–]391835 89ポイント90ポイント  (38子コメント)

It sucks that someone was driven away from this great hobby because he made a mistake as a nineteen-year-old that he has paid his dues for. This is nothing but a PR move, despite what Wizards says. If they were really didn't think people who committed crimes in the past should be allowed to play on MTGO or at tournaments, they would do background checks on every player. We had the SCG article pulled, and now we have this. It sucks that the Twitter mob has so much power over the community.

[–]I_go_by_Ronin 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is completely fucking ridiculous...

[–]imNTR 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

Can someone please explain what happened? He got banned by something Drew Levin said?

[–]Blackout28 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

ZJ top 8'ed a GP that WotC was streaming. Drew Levin tweeted about his criminal past, which was then brought to light. An internet shit storm came and then died down. He top 8'ed GP Charlotte. Now as we've found out from ZJ's comments, on Tuesday he was banned from all events, and had his Magic Online account seized and terminated.

[–]Kerrus 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

he was convicted of sexual battery ten years ago. Drew Levein brought it up recently presumably in an attempt to get him booted out of the GP, and now wizards has banned him forever.

[–]PiratePantsFace 38ポイント39ポイント  (16子コメント)

The community should boycott channelfireball. They led this witch hunt. Levin may have started it, but channelfireball ran with it.

[–]Tezzerator 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

Before I boycott them I'd want to triple check the sources here. It was a month ago, and my memory's not perfect as to exactly who said what.

[–]Infersader 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Honestly I already lost a lot of respect for them after so many of their employees came out and attacked Pascal, starting the whole Goyf situation.

[–]Gotta_Gett 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Drew Levin plays for SCG now I think.

[–]ThisDamnSite 7ポイント8ポイント  (7子コメント)

I won't be buying any Origins content because of this and I invite people to do the same. A simple gesture to show WotC that we don't support this move.

[–]kaiseresc 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

If I don't buy, my LGS will suffer. Can't do that. If they close, I get nothin.
I propose people run away form MTGO.

[–]TuesdayRB 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Your LGS probably sells things you can buy to start new hobbies.

[–]kaiseresc 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

not so much. Warhammer? No thanks. I already play DnD and yeah, there are boardgames, which less than 10% plays. Magic is the big deal. No other card game is even played there.

[–]jjness 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Between this, the Goyfgate situation, the rumors I hear about the TSG situation, I have no reason to do business with CFB at all anymore.

[–]DressedSpring1 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

I tried to reach some sort of compromise with them, particularly with regard to maintaining my ability to play Magic Online.

I have to feel like this was an extremely reasonable compromise that Wizards should have taken.

[–]elbenji 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Seriously

Alsocouldhaveavoidedalawsuit

[–]mtd14 15ポイント16ポイント  (1子コメント)

This poor guy. It's not much, but I'll be boycotting MTGO until October unless he is unbanned. I usually draft few times a month, and it probably would have gone up since it's summer now. Oh well, CSGO is free even if I'm terrible at it.

[–]The_Chairman 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was planning on getting back in with Origins after a couple years out and found this shit storm. Back to DotA I go.

[–]ljkp 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am a convicted criminal. I was in jail for six months for refusing to serve in army. WotC giving extra sentences (on top of the social and legal ones) indeed does make me feel a lot more unsafe than knowing that someone who has served his/her sentence and possibly learned his/her lesson plays the game with me. I think that part of the sentence needs to be the social stigma, but also a huge part about the punishment is also integration to the society. With this decision WotC actively tries to deny the opportunity of ex-convicts to integrate to the society and leave their crimes behind them. This makes me very sad.

[–]Yogurt_Popsicle 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

I read Zack Jesse's thread previously about his trouble with the law, and what had transpired. I didn't necessarily like what I read, but I did enjoy seeing that he truly had learned from past mistakes and was making himself a better person. Truly seemed to be a person that the penal system worked well for.

I find it absolutely disgusting that WotC took it upon themselves to ban a player for a completely unrelated to MTG in the past transgression. I feel that Wizards has overstepped their bounds in this case, and honestly it sets an incredibly dangerous precedent going forward. WotC has shown today that you can be banned permanently from their game for no reason related to their game, franchise, or tournament structure.

While I am not necessarily on Zack Jesse's side with regard to approving of what he did in the past. It is not like he is doing anything to make anyone feel unsafe today or at any tournament he is attending. This is truly an abortion of ethics and I will more than likely end my attending of future WotC related events due to this.

[–]educatedbox 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

If enough of a twitter mob is all it takes to get someone a lifetime ban from Magic, where's the line to get Drew Levin banned? I know where I stand, but I need coordinates to get there.

[–]Spenzerr90 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

"The giant's real punishment was the fleeting moment when he was allowed to stand before being dragged down to his knees again."

[[Curse of Chains]]

[–]emptyshark 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Holy crap. They banned a remorseful man who was actively trying to rebuild his life, a man who never really posed a threat to the community. I even forgot his name and what he had done until I opened this thread.

[–]ThisDamnSite 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't understand how such a large company can make such a horrible PR move. This doesn't make sense from any standpoint. This doesn't feel like justice. It is bad PR for everyone. It won't gain them money. I doubt it makes anyone feel safer going to events.

Out of all those things, justice is the only one that matters, but you'd at least think we could find some motivation for a move a company makes. I struggle to find a reason that WotC would throw themselves into the fire with a decision like this. They've just set a precedent that they can't possibly back up going forward, so it will just likely sit there as a random, ugly stain.

[–]Blackxp 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

The world comes with it's own sadness and issues. People lose loved ones, you lose a job, you suffer addiction, depression, you make mistakes. What makes Magic so exciting is how its an outlet to escape such sorrows.

All I see lately is a beautiful artist leaving us, a man banned because of his past mistakes unrelated to the game (fueled by hateful tweets/attention seekers), another player being sued for selling magic cards in Germany, a pro player being bashed publicly for his draft picks, and poorly made product intended to bolster profits.

Where has this escape gone? What happened to the posts like Noah Bradley creating a wonderful free portrait for a woman who had recently lost her husband to suicide? The wonderful portrayal of autism and transgender in the magic lore? Hell I even sent that kid whose cards went through the wash a Sarkhan a while back. We need more of these stories and less hate.

I'm sorry this happened to you man. Just know that WOTC did that to you, not us. As a community we are behind you.

[–]nick012000 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

If I were him, I would be seriously considering suing Wizards of the Coast for loss of income. I'm pretty sure that if he did, the money for his legal fees would come pouring in from Reddit.

[–]Smi77y 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Congrats! You don't have to waste time and money on Magic anymore!

[–]1amathrowaway 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Apparently, whether or not other Pro Players and WotC like you before your crime is the difference between a lifetime ban and Hall of Fame.

[–]regalrecaller 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Can someone please link to a thread explaining this?

[–]strolpol 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wizards didn't want the PR nightmare of "Convicted rapists attending children's card game events." Because that's what Magic is in the eyes of the stockholders, a kid's game that makes them money. The actual demographics skewing older is rather irrelevant.

Boycott all ya want, no one outside a small circle of online players knows who Zach Jesse is or cares a whit about any of this internet drama.

[–]wyattisthename 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Can anyone give me a tldr if why he was banned?

[–]safeguard77 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Essentially, Zach had a sexual assault charge/incident, and wasn't convicted but took a guilty plea deal, yadda yaddathis was 11 years ago. He served a very short amount of time. Since then, hes worked hard to atone for what happened, legally. He had his civil rights restored. If you have time read about it here. https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/35q0yx/in_light_of_recent_discussion_a_post_by_zach_jesse/

But, recently, Zach Top 8d the GP Charlotte, and some dickBag named drew levin decided he was going to get on twitter and highlight Zach's criminal record. Zach made a post on reddit, to come forward and explain his situation and not try to hide anything.

"And WOTC basically goes, okay whatever Ban you for life, and Freeze your MTGO account. We dont care"

[–]y0b0 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pretty disgusted with Wizards over this.

Zach's long post detailing how he had turned his life around and the value he now adds to society should change anyone's mind that this action by Wizards is fair.

[–]turlockmike 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is really poor decision making on Hasbro's part. This person not only paid for their crime, but is going above and beyond via community work. This person shouldn't be banned, but should be celebrated for turning his life around and making good decisions since his bad decision.

[–]TKHoga 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Congrats Wotc. This is he you lose two customers. Don't expect me to spend any money on Magic anymore. Or DND. This is some cowardly shit.

[–]Deathrite-Shaman 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Welp, I feel stupid for being associated with WoTC & Magic: the Gathering. I'm not going to FNM or the pre releases anymore and I kind of want to sell my cards...

[–]GruffMcScruff 7ポイント8ポイント  (6子コメント)

Could MtG Pro Players start a players union like the NFLPA with the NFL to represent them and their interests?

[–]ebEliminator 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

The difference there is that NFL players are contracted to a team, Magic pro players aren't under contract to Wizards. For a comparison, look at golf. It's an individual sport where players play for payouts, like the MTG Pro Tour. It doesn't have a union, either.

[–]Alamoth 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

For completely unrelated reasons to this issue I wish Pro Players could start a union.

However, as /u/ebEliminator points out it makes absolutely no sense for Pro Players to unionize unless the DCI becomes some kind of league like the NFL.

[–]jooke 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Idk, if pro players threatened to refuse to turn up for (say) a PT then I think WotC would have to listen to them.

[–]jeraperth 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wizards of the Coast and Hasbro believe they can act beyond the confines of the game by policing and punishing non-MTG related offenses. This is ridiculous. I've been playing since 2001, but I think I'm done.

[–]jjness 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

When the NFL's handling of Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson's suspensions were news, people were up in arms and sights were set on Roger Gooddell. Now here's the same situation. People still buy tickets and merchandise to football games. People will still buy Magic cards. It disgusts me that for as much outrage as we have here, true action will be much rarer (myself included).

[–]Aema 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

As an outraged community member and player, is there anything I can do to support Zach? It seems outrageous to me to ban a player for a crime they committed over 10 years ago and satisfied the requirements of the law in terms of penalty for.

[–]7thPwnist[S,🍰] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Hey, I edited the OP to have numbers you can call to complain to WotC if you'd like. Trying to get as many people to contact them as possible. Thanks!

[–]EctoSC2[🍰] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

This cements my deep seated hatred for Drew Levin.

[–]wtt1913 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Something feels wrong about defending a convicted rapist...but he went through the court system, did his time (perhaps less than he should have), and has made clear steps towards becoming a functioning member of society. I do not understand why he would be retroactively banned for a non-magic related offense and guys like Chapin are allowed to do as they please. No disrespect to the guy, but that seems hypocritical on WotC's part.

[–]Jawnnay 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Drew Levin is such a fuckboy. If Zach paid his debt to society and hasn't been a further liability then what's the problem? Is Drew going to be hit with a ban too for inciting online harassment, or do we just sweep that under the rug because he was choosing an easy target?

[–]Logruuf_The_Meta 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I must have missed whatever is going on here. Can someone explain what caused this ban? Was it something to do with GP Charlotte, because I didn't watch that.