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Question to anti-GG: How is Anita influential if she's had very little impact on game development? (self.KotakuInAction)

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A question to anti-GG.

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[–]SimplyMason0 22ポイント23ポイント  (5子コメント)

To some, she is just a critic who got harassed with bomb threats because she simply wanted more women in video games. Nothing more or less. They don't see the rest of the stuff her critics see like the Jack Thompson similarities, the fact her "harassers" are obvious idiots/criticisms and her high standards on what games should be.

[–]BendingBeifong 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's a shame that people hear harassment and rush to support someone without doing any further research. Guess innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply with popular opinion, does it?

[–]madsse 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

It really doesn't anymore. Popular opinion used to be heavily influenced by journalists, back when these had standards and a proper education and used to do research and fact checking. Usually only experts were giving a megaphone to share their opinions, which then trickled down to the people.

Today most journalists are a joke, working for pure profit, exploiting primal instincts in their readers. In addition, anybody can now say anything and be seen and heard by everyone. As a result public opinion is often mob think. As such, all of the principles mankind has worked for and implemented, specifically those from the age of reason, go out the window, including the presumption of innocence.

[–]Iconochasm 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Journalism has always been crappy, but it's gotten worse as they've gotten more educated. Now they're not blue-collar types who report the news, they're professional types who inspire change.

[–]ThriKr33n 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

high standards on what games should be

And ignoring that there's never any suggestions on how to better present women in games, it's just "this is bad, this is bad, this is also bad" - then end up with a lot of mutually exclusive checkboxes that a dev can never fulfill.

"Must be a character BUT NOT a fighting fucktoy/comedy relief/sidekick/hero/damsel/any other common character archetype AND must be a blank slate so we can project ourselves into the role" wait - wtf? How?

[–]SimplyMason0 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thats a part of it too but she also hates action in general.

[–]the_gamer_rises 31ポイント32ポイント  (4子コメント)

she is inconsequential. her ideology is a cancer. it is insidious. political correctness is a creeping death that leaves subcultures a dry husk

[–]sknot1454 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agree.

I get tired of constantly seeing screenshots of her, randi, and mcintosh's antics here.

They're fucking ants. Who cares? Their influence is COMPLETELY overblown here.

[–]Bukkake_Monster 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

So, she is a proper feminist?

[–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]the_gamer_rises 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    there is nothing wrong with feminism. just like there is nothing wrong with religion when the practitioner respects others lives, their beliefs and their actions. its the radicals who poison movements like islam or feminism.

    [–]Asaoirc 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'd crosspost to againstgamergate , you might be preaching to less of the choir there.

    [–]Unplussed 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    She's influential outside of the gaming industry and community (because most of those chucklefucks are hardly gamers), but where she has influence (the media, "progressive activists") has the power to negatively impact them.

    [–]Lhasadog 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I think the most telling sign of Anita's influence is that positive comments from her would by any measurable metric appear to have zero positive effects on sales or interest in a product. Whereas negative comments from her, while often unleashing a public media storm, mostly would appear to at best have no short or long term sales impact, and if anything may likely drive sales of the critiqued and castigated product upwards sharply.

    In short, if you want you video game to thrive and succeed in the public market, the best cheapest, most effective marketing you can do is piss off Jonathan McIntosh.

    [–]SwearWords 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Not anti, but I think I can provide an answer. Basically, she's Jack Thompson 2, except she's concerned with women instead of children. She has the "Videogames Cause Violince: Misogyny Edition" schtick going on. As for her actual contributions to gaming, she contributed greatly to shitting things up with identity politics. Since she's a woman instead of an old white guy, the big gaming sites (and mainstream media, what with her ABC Nightline and Colbert Report appearances) eat up her shit with a smile, without even asking if it's legit. At least with Thompson, they asked "hey, wait a minute..." or even straight up called bullshit on him. With Sarkeesian, there's no questioning her views, or else your a "misogynist."

    [–]BobMugabe35 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    To be fair a lot of people who do make games will routinely gush about her 'great work', i think one of the Naughty Dog higher-ups gave that ass quite a polishing not long ago.

    [–]Name_Is_For_Show 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    "Because she starts the conversation." - anti-GG

    [–]its_never_lupus 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Most gaming journalists are tight for cash, publications don't generally pay much. So when FF raised $160k from croudfunding alone (and more from other sources - as a registered charity they have to publish accounts) for doing basically nothing, journalists took notice.

    The journos could see there was some real money in socjus activism for the few who could sell out hardest and shout their poisonous messages the loudest. And many media companies went along with it because they love clickbait. So FF has been enjoying enormously disproportionate coverage for anything they choose to say.

    [–]ggdsf 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'd change that question to Feminist Frequency

    [–]Limon_Lime7-37k Get. Eleven more drug deals. 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    The media.

    [–]ddewbofh 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    :s/little/no/

    As far as I know her only "contribution" to gaming is as a token/parody NPC. Methinks telling writers and developers to neuter stories and thrashing their creativity wasn't the best of ideas. Her media presence is pretty huge but her actual importance is fairly minimal (if any at all).

    (I'm no a Sark-cultist/anti-GG, but she's been on my radar since ~2010)

    [–]centrum5555 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

    i would rather like to know the answer to another question:

    within the last year alone S. made i think i heard 500k $ alone. she is here since 2010 or so which would mean she made around 2.5mio wouldn't that money have been better spend by giving it to a developer that exclusively caters to them?

    [–]ys57 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    She made 400k last year, but a small fraction of that went to wages. And that amount was quite a bit more than her previous years in the public eye. She doesn't make that much in all honesty.

    [–]centrum5555 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    it is not how much she makes but how much people are willing to give her. with the money they give her they could fund something productive and positive

    [–]EzraTwitch 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Dude, check your rationality privilege.

    [–]CongenoRule #1: LISTEN & BELIEVE 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Let's not also forget that 40k of that money was supposed to be used by some anti-GG woman. I don't recall her name, but it was something pixie or lixie or something stupid like that.

    I heard she was in a deeper hole with the state than Harper.

    [–]SwearWords 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yeah. Pixie Stix got a bunch of money from crowd funding and didn't do what she said she was gonna. Instead of giving the money back, she spent it on other shit, including the flannel bandit.

    [–]mnemosyne-0000#BotYourShield 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Archive links for this post:

    I am Mnemosyne, goddess of memory. I remember so you don't have to.

    [–]MSMPlan 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    She's not influential, she's a symbol. Her comments are irrelevant and devs laugh them off, as we saw with E3 Doom. But she is the flag that everyone rallies behind when they want to say they're for equality in gaming and they parade her around as The Oppressed Woman when they want to talk bad about gamers.

    [–]HughyHugh 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    You may want to try /r/AgainstGamergate

    [–]howdy_im_jon 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    She is influential, not necessarily to the current crop of developers, but to the younger generation. I don't think it's fair to judge her impact solely by looking at current devs.

    Younger people see her videos and some take them to heart. The vast majority won't grow up to become developers, but some obviously will.

    Not inherently a bad thing. It really depends on which parts of Anita's message they listen to. If it's putting more women characters in gaming or whatever, then by all means, go for it. But if it's the "everything is misogyny!" silliness she spews, then that sucks.

    [–]oldmanbees 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Through the lens of confirmation bias, she's had huge impact on game development. Every time there's a woman character in a game, you can give a quick prayer to St. Sarkeesian for making it happen. Obviously the game designer didn't want to include a woman character, because women did not exist in video gaming before 2014. So FF must have compelled the big sexist blockhead to go against his own wishes and do the right thing.

    [–]Drakaris 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Answer: she is not. None of them are. They don't realize that GG represents a very tiny minority of gamers. And anti-GG are even less. Proof? Witcher 3 for example has sold 4 million copies in two weeks, it's still the most popular on GOG and still in top 5 sellers on Steam a month and a half after the release. I'm too lazy to check for console statistics but I suppose they're similar. It will easily sell more than 6 million copies if not more. Guess how many of these millions of people care about Tauriq "I'm a complete idiot" Moosa baby cries "RACISM, RACISM, RACISM!"? I'll give you a hint - none of them.

    And that's just one game. What does these numbers tell us? That it doesn't matter how much Anita cries "SEXISM! MISOGYNY!", no matter how much Tauriq "I'm a fucking moron" Moosa cries "RACISM!", no matter how much FullMcIntosh cries "VOILENCE!" (first few days Batman sold better than the Witcher 3, the same game that FullMcIntosh cries it's so violent)... The majority of gamers doesn't give a flying fuck about them. Tbh 99% of the gamers probably don't know that these SJW clowns even exist...

    Conclusion: they have zero effect on the game development and they will continue to have absolutely no effect on the industry. Geralt will keep being the white alpha male that screws everything that moves and has boobs, Batman will keep beating the shit out of everytone, Tifa will keep having size DDD boobs, Mortal Kombat fatalities will keep getting more brutal, Doom will keep getting more bloody and so on... Why are we so frustrated then, you will say... I guess some of us have really low tolerance for stupidity. Others... simply don't care. Because once again, no matter how much the SJW whackjobs cry - they will accomplish as much as they have already accomplished, which is nothing.

    [–]Grampy_Bone 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    She's not influential to gaming devs, she's a major source of corruption in gaming journalism. That's what GG is trying to reform.

    [–]DwarfGate 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I have no fucking clue. I could understand a charismatic person rallying the masses but my god she is just boring. Just try to watch her videos, she is so very clearly reading off cue cards and not very well. She's almost completely monotone in her videos and talks.

    Let's just ignore the fact that everything she has said is complete bullshit and has been disproven on every front. Let's ignore the fact that she very clearly took $160,000 in exchange for a handful of Youtube videos. Where is the inspiration? Is feminism so desperate for speakers that it will take anyone under the sun?

    [–]descartessss 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    You can be influential when you annoy a lot of people.

    [–]ys57 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    She got a lot of unwarranted hate for her original series. She got criticism as well, but there were a lot of actual sexists who wanted to drive her out solely on the basis of her being a woman and criticizing their video games. Just look at videos that talk about her, and the comments are littered with threats. Even though I disagree with her on almost everything, i don't think being a shit head is the proper response. Game journos saw this though, put everyone under this umbrella with the people who actually hate her, and used that to cater to the sj crowd and bait for clicks.

    [–]Paitryn 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Dunno. Did you ask aGG instead of proGG?

    [–]Rygar_the_Beast 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    She started the conversation, yo.

    And now companies are spewing similar bullshit to get on the ride because they can use the good PR.

    The same are Marvel and all over the place with women thor and black Captain America when this has been done before.

    [–]mstrkrft- 0ポイント1ポイント  (21子コメント)

    Question to GG: If Anita isn't influential, why do you care so damn much about her?

    [–]gargantualis 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

    But what brought you over here the second you see her name in a thread? Try asking yourself the same question.

    Just sayin.

    [–]theone89944k GET[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (9子コメント)

    Because her criticisms are grossly out of context and she refuses to address/debate them. If the gaming press uncritically parrots them, then that's a problem.

    [–]mstrkrft- 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

    But if the gaming press "uncritically parrots" her criticisms, isn't that an influence she has?

    [–]theone89944k GET[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (7子コメント)

    Only to a moderate degree - and it says more about the gaming press; she won't impact game development very much (and to this day, hasn't really made much of a meaningful impact).

    [–]mstrkrft- 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

    But if all you want is devs to be able to make the games they want (and then for you to enjoy them) and she won't impact game development very much.. again, why do you care?

    [–]theone89944k GET[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Because she's being used as a mouth-piece to make false generalizations; going on TV to denounce GG pretty much gave justification for GG to oppose her. She's a dishonest liar.

    [–]DanyLektro 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

    I feel like you went into this argument with a pre-determined view of what Anita is saying and then openly asked anti-GG with that view in mind (presumably dismissing that we don't share it) how she could possibly be influential.

    If that's the case, that's pretty dishonest. You're baiting a discussion to zing people with rhetoric and old talking points that nobody agrees on. It seems much more like you don't want an answer to "how is Anita actually influential" but rather, "how is this woman influential to anything given that what she's saying is worthless".

    If you want an actual answer to your question: she's influential for bringing the topic of diversity into the mainstream discussion around video games, regardless of whether or not she has anything good to say about it, her fame and infamy made the discussion surrounding the topic relevant to a lot of people.

    [–]thekindlyman555 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

    But has that translated into an actual increase in diversity? Evidence from 2014 and 2015's E3's seem to show the opposite despite the gaming press's celebrations to the contrary.

    And games were already pretty diverse to start with, despite what her cherry picking of examples would indicate.

    [–]DanyLektro 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I couldn't tell you, to be honest. Given that the average development time of a video game (especially ones that would be shown at E3) is several years, it might be a little too early to know whether it has actually affected the industry. We'll know in a couple of years once we have more than cherry-picked examples from either side of the discussion to point to, and can examine trends over time.

    [–]EzraTwitch 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    That's obvious. I don't like being lied about by a nitwit, regardless of how much influence they may or may not have.

    [–]oldmanbees 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    She's a troll and a blatant con artist. Seeing dishonest, deceitful people make bank by preying on peoples' ignorance and desire for a better world is irksome, as is watching people repeatedly fall for it.

    [–]Grampy_Bone 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

    We can't ignore her because the gaming press won't shut up about her.

    Jim Sterling once called Anita the "monster gamers created." He was half-right, she's the monster the gaming press created.

    The funny thing is Anita wasn't even well-regarded in feminist circles prior to her TvW series, mainly because she's so puritanical. But feminists are opportunists, and as one youtuber described her, "Like it or not, Anita is now the face of feminism in gaming." Feminists support her now because the gaming press made her so popular they have no choice.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6gLmcS3-NI

    It's a symbiotic relationship, where the press uses her to talk about social issue de jour instead of gaming, because they are shitty hack writers and not real journalists. This is offensive to real gamers, who want a press that represents them, rather than a group of moralists preaching nonsensical sociology woo.

    She's incredibly annoying because she relentlessly shames, slanders, and attacks all gamers and men, then flees from all criticism and calls it sexist harassment. The media allows her to hide behind them when they should be calling her out. The whole thing's a farce.

    So Anita is influential, in that she is the poster child for unethical behavior in games journalism. Which, despite the snark, we do actually care about.

    [–]mstrkrft- 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Feminists support her now because the gaming press made her so popular they have no choice.

    All I know is that I support her because she is being attacked for voicing criticism. I don't agree with all of her criticism, but I think that overall it's a very good thing that there is feminist criticism of video games. I would like to see more of that, hopefully ones that I agree with more, but hey.

    Also.. that video you linked? That guy is either unable to understand what he is talking about with her thesis or deliberately misrepresents it.

    [–]Grampy_Bone 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    She has never been 'attacked' by anyone. She says dumb things and gets criticism for it. Why is it okay for her to declare that all men are inherently evil violent rapists and we are unable to respond to that? Why is she allowed to criticize whomever she pleases and exempt from the same criticism?

    [–]mstrkrft- [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    She has never been 'attacked' by anyone.

    lol.

    Why is it okay for her to declare that all men are inherently evil violent rapists and we are unable to respond to that?

    lol².

    For all the shit ghazi is given for being a hugbox, building narratives etc, the world view of some GGers is remarkably distorted.

    [–]thekindlyman555 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    If you want some other feminist's view on gaming, I recommend looking into Liana K if you haven't already heard of her. She's someone who is actually demonstrably a "gamer", cares about the game industry, has reported on the industry for years, and applies feminist critiques to games. She's also "neutral" in terms of gamergate, since she gets criticized by both sides a fair deal.

    [–]mhmintz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I don't know if she's really that influential. Granted, a lot of people listen to what she has to say and will repeat the mantra when prompted. However, I'm not entirely convinced she's really affected the industry in any big way.

    Basically, people will nod their heads when she talks and then go about their day.

    [–]Mesl 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    How is Anita influential if she's had very little impact on game development?

    ...asks Anita's creepy obsessive stalker fan club.

    [–]BendingBeifong -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Because the majority of developers in the industry are talentless fucks who care only about money and/or keeping up appearances. They would rather give off the image of being "so progressive and modern, oh look at me" in order to earn praise from some cunt with a kickstarter and her rabid band of SJW morons than create a quality experience. Which then furthers their own profits or weird fetish of proclaiming their white/male/hetero guilt.

    TL;DR The gaming industry (developers and journalists) is filled with people who are either greedy or beta.