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[–]TheMagicPin 521ポイント522ポイント  (189子コメント)

Wow, someone who is arguing against Transgenderism using legitimate arguments, and more importantly isn't seething with hate, but instead compassion. He seems like someone who wouldn't blow up in your face if you actually bring up legitimate counter points to his arguments.

Edit: Just some extra stuff.

[–]Copgra 96ポイント97ポイント  (0子コメント)

Honestly he seems like what the general priest is, at least the one's I've come in contact with

[–]Kordsmeier 43ポイント44ポイント  (27子コメント)

This is how so many catholics really are and why I do feel a sense of hatred toward r/atheism and the things they say about religion and Christians, while grouping Catholics into that. There are all types but for the vast majority, the Catholics I know/met were just like this priest. Full of compassion, love, and reason. In glad this post isn't in the other subreddit because of how things of this nature are treated. I'm not religious or promoting anything, just felt a compulsion to say this after reading what you'd commented.

[–]Jordoom 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm a Catholic who converted from Protestantism (Baptist/non-denom/Evangelical... they're all kinda the same.) I just want to say, Protestants can be nice, too. :)

[–]CatFancier4393 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

They may be nice, but that doesn't save them from eternal hellfirethosegodlessheratics

[–]Kordsmeier 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I didn't mean for it to seem others weren't also this way, just that this video in particular was for/about catholics I guess.

[–]howtotalktopeople 119ポイント120ポイント  (22子コメント)

Throw away from obvious reasons.

TL;DR: I 'identify' as transgender and despite a few minor points a sensible person would call pedantic, I agree with what this man has said about Gender Identity Disorder being something I need to discuss and work on through therapy rather than 'solve' with surgery.

(unlike homosexuality which I believe to be inherently different and requiring no therapy or second thoughts and 'normal', for what that word is worth)

Qualifications, if needed. I am a male of almost thirty who has had sex and relationships with both sexes. I have long considered my (mental) feminine traits to outweigh my male in both multitude and magnitude. That is to say they are more numerous and more important to who I am. However, they are not all I am, they do not define me, and they are not entirely what others would use to describe me. I have gone to see many therapists over the years, and like anyone in my situation have long debated living as the other half full time and even getting sexual reassignment surgery.

I agree: surgery is very serious, permanent, and not something that should be flippantly decided in your adolescence. I do not believe surgery would solve all my underline issues. I believe feminine and masculine to be organizational constructs created for convenience, which while is totally cool and probably for the best, has everyone confused about who they are.

Surgery is serious. I am not going to make this point, we all know even routine things have inherent dangers. Anything permanent should be given considerable thought, more than can be done under the sheen of youth. I personally took two years of having a tattoo idea written down and drawn up prior to getting it, I know because I dated it. Even if there was a magic surgery to give me the body I've always wanted with fully functional sexual organs, I'd wait at least a year. I'd get other things in my life in order, I'd consider all factors. I would prioritize my finances so I didn't end up broke and relying on others to take care of me. My friends can testify, I once took six hours to make a character in Soul Caliber III. If it was my body, I wouldn't just consult the best doctors, I'd ask everyone. I'd ask about both sides of the gender fence, what they liked, wanted, and most importantly what they hated. My father used to say, the divorced knew more about marriage. Ask the unsatisfied. Do you reasonably think any teenager or child knows exactly what they want? I know we tend to romanticize the idea that words of children are honest and heart spoken and thus inherently correct and full of goodness, but any parent will tell you kids are wise for every hundred times they fall off the couch while hanging upside down, or don't realize that eating all ice cream dinners will make them sick. Young people have the beauty of following their heart, but that is because considering consequences is what makes one an adult. Balancing risk and reward makes someone wise. Thus why surgery is the answer for people like me, because we want to be the way we want to be seen so badly. We see the rewards as well worth any penalty, but as I have seen it is always not so, and not thinking twice or considering things more deeply isn't courage, it is fool-hardy.

This brings me to the Father's next point: Will this change make you happy? I don't know. I am well aware my gender issues aren't my only issue. I am also aware if I could slay even one of the two other large sources of stress in my life, I would need more therapy and have to reset the clock on every thing else in my life in order to take the time to recalibrate my consciousness. Why? I've lived with four major difficulties in my life. I know when I conquered the first, it fundamentally changed my thinking, as well as how I looked at my remaining problems. If another problem were to be solved through time, effort and therapy, wouldn't it be prudent to first see how I feel about myself as I relate to the world in terms of sex and gender? Maybe conquering another difficulty might convince me that living as the opposite gender full time is right for me, or maybe it might convince me to have surgery or the like, or maybe I'd just let it go. I've let things just as burdening go before.

My last point, which, I see as being the most controversial; how do we know how the other half really feels? He is right, face it. We don't. Other men don't know how other men feel, same for women. The human experience is like a solar storm, we can predict patterns and they have similar details to one another that make them easy to discuss and identify, but the truth is that calculating exactly what one will act like or look like is impossible. Thus the problem with gender (Feminine Vs. Masculine). These are just categories. Not determinants. You can like men and still be a sports super fan. You can like show tunes and like women. And the opposite, you can be gay and not feel the need to identify as the other sex. However, I think it is high time we stop attaching gender to ridiculous things like footballs and barbies. Nah, even more so. Stop making dresses and suits or what the fuck ever reserved for some kind of genital configuration. Stop making, and this is the key here, just because they have ten points in the female column and and only two in the male, that they should be more seriously thinking about if their genitals are lying assholes. You might like gym culture and feeling hunky, you may like women or even feeling dominant, you may like Call of Duty, you may want people to sometimes see you as a man, but that doesn't necessarily mean you want to be one from now on, day and night. You need to think long and hard if all of that absolutely means for you, not for anyone else, that you know you want to be a man. Fill in your own examples for womanhood here.

Tl;dr: I'm trans, I speak only for myself, and I think this man has something to say people in my position should consider if you can manage to set aside your ego and let yourself be open to a different world view. Seriously, don't let the chance for real introspection die under the guise of, 'he is kinder than other straight white religious men, but he is still wrong about people like me'.

I don't have it in me to reread this right now, so sorry for any rambling. First time I've ever typed something like this, hope it helped.

[–]deyv 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Mid 20's, very straight guy here who experienced many of the same things you have. I also typed up a reply today that said things I've never said out loud. I agree 100% with you.

[–]Chaos_Philosopher 9ポイント10ポイント  (5子コメント)

The key really lies in the fact that gender is performative. In that, he's hitting on some good points. Or maybe dancing around them. I wonder if he's aware of this school of thought on gender.

I really have to take issue with the mistake he makes between gender and sex, though. He claims you have a real gender that is revealed in your body, where in fact gender is a social construct, therefore entirely made up, and sex is what he means to say. Now, unfortunately almost everyone is so deep down the gender hole that they are irrevocably mentally contaminated (biased if you prefer) by the idea of gender that there is no hope of breaking them out of it.

Luckily, none of that is important to the reason the original decisions to perform sex reassignment surgery. The only reason it was ever performed in the first place, and indeed the only reason it should be performed ever, is as an immediate intervention to save people continuing to lose significant qualify of life, often to the point where they off themselves.

Could, theoretically, we change their concepts of gender so that there is no suffering? Yes, but it would sometimes take decades of therapy and extensive sociopolitical engineering to reshape your culture so that the underlying issues leading to gender and gender roles don't effect these folks in their day to day life. As you can see that could cost billions and take far to long in the case of someone who's right now suicidal.

Or we could just do a couple of manageable surgeries.

[–]poporook 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think gender reassignment surgery is a lot about making others more accepting. Most of the stories I've heard always mention how the individual is looked down on for not conforming to traditional gender roles. If only they looked the part, people wouldn't judge them and they'd be able to enjoy doing the things and behaving the way they want to. They aren't handicapping themselves by having the surgery. They're just altering their appearance. This is probably a simplistic and ignorant assessment of how these people actually feel so I apologize if I've offended anyone.

[–]Chaos_Philosopher 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

My observations of my friends who're facing it are pretty close to your assessment. There's a huge preoccupation about perceptions from the world. Breaks my heart when I see my friends suffering that way. I kind of wish I could bash some sense into society so they wouldn't have to undergo such stressful, strenuous hardships to get the surgery. But... If wishes were horses... I still couldn't afford one! :p

[–]Which_Effect 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks for your input. It's refreshing to see a reply that isn't making sweeping generalizations about transgenderism, not to mention the fact that you have first hand experience on the subject.

[–]ThatStereotype18 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Problem is, I don't think he was preaching having "lots of thinking time and discussion and therapy to help realize where you are on your gender identity before you make the big leap!"

But more: "Your gender identity is a dilusion and you need lots of thinking time, discussion, and therapy in order to make you the mentally healthy person you were meant to be!"

Which isn't something I can get behind or agree with.

[–]Chaos_Philosopher 19ポイント20ポイント  (2子コメント)

ITT: people being approximately infinity percent more respectful than I though coming in.

[–]zoxer95 35ポイント36ポイント  (6子コメント)

See I hate this because I support LGBT, But he makes sense to me too. I'm a naturalist in the sense that I think you should except your body for what it is. It could be tall or short, fat or skinning male or female, these are the cards your dealt. I could say, I felt like I was should have been a rich mans son, but I can't just get a surgery to make that happen, its just how it is. IDK I'm fucking confused now because I think people should do what they want with their bodies. I don't fucking know.

[–]three_money 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

We all just need to keep an open mind. "Supporting LGBT" doesn't mean you are obligated to take all of your beliefs from the present gender studies dogma. That's what religions are for, if you're into that. I don't think you should worry yourself about whether entertaining a particular concept puts you at odds with people you want to support, in this case LGBT activists. If we want to continue seeking the truth about how best to live as humans we have to check every once in a while that we are still dealing with truth rather than what makes everyone feel good. The science behind the issue does suggest some intrinsic differences between the genders, but it's far from fully understood. I think it's pretty futile to search for an airtight cultural axiom at this point. In the mean time the only thing to do is to allow people struggling with their identity to use their own best judgment on such a personal issue, and try to respect the difficulty with which they arrive at their decision.

[–]pathslog 194ポイント195ポイント  (137子コメント)

So many props for hearing sound, reasonable arguments from a religious person. It's refreshing.

And in the same spirit of arguing, instead of bashing and imposing your own view, allow me to respectfully criticize what I just watched. His argument rests on some assumptions which, as far as I can tell, people take for granted and don't realize how biased they are.

It came out as obvious to me the assumption that transgender behavior is a "problem" or "sickness". I can see where he's coming from. The behavior can be easily compared to known psychological disorders, and the conclusion that transgendering can also be considered a medical condition that needs treatment is not only faulty. It's basically the heart of most preconceptions.

Other conditions he mentions, such as anorexia, cause real physical damages to your health. And as far as I know, feeling transgender will not make anyone sick to the point their lives are at risk. Somehow, it seems offsetting to assume transgendering is a disease that needs treatment when there is no solid evidence to uphold that. Feel free to point to any serious scientific study which concludes that. I'll be happy to take that into account next time I talk to anyone about this.

As far as surgeries go, any medical procedure of the same type can be considered life threatening. Why do people pay for liposuction? Or any cosmetic plastic surgery? Heck... why do people even tatoo their skin or die their hair with unnatural colors, like bright pink or green? Why do people wear makeup? They all feel something is missing to feel better about their bodies and themselves. But no one is accusing them having a psychological disorder. Anyone going under for breast implants are paying the price and taking the risk of surgery to "feel better about themselves".

He said it himself, several times. Why do women wear dresses? Why do girls mostly like pink and boys mostly like blue? It's all arbitrary. Why do we need separate bathrooms for each gender? It's abitrary. Because we grew up thinking it's better that way. It's a cultural heritage taken for granted for generations, and now comes to light as different people realize their potential to feel better in life. And aside from pedophiles, perverts, and irresponsible people out there who shit on the floor and piss away from the toilet, there is nothing life treatening about sharing the same bathroom with the opposite sex.

[–]ROKMWI 35ポイント36ポイント  (21子コメント)

It came out as obvious to me the assumption that transgender behavior is a "problem" or "sickness". I can see where he's coming from. The behavior can be easily compared to known psychological disorders, and the conclusion that transgendering can also be considered a medical condition that needs treatment is not only faulty. It's basically the heart of most preconceptions.

So what you are saying is that Gender dysphoria is not a disorder?

Other conditions he mentions, such as anorexia, cause real physical damages to your health. And as far as I know, feeling transgender will not make anyone sick to the point their lives are at risk.

He wasn't advising anyone to force transgender people into care though nor was he judging those who decide to go through surgery. What he was saying that instead of trying to modify body to suit mind, treatment should focus on modifying the mind to suit the body.

Are people who go through gender reassignment surgery ok with their bodies afterwards? Or are they still troubled? If they are still troubled, why wouldn't it make sense to try to help them?

What about the other disorder he mentioned, about feeling your body parts are foreign? That doesn't sound life threatening either.

[–]Lily_Bubs 19ポイント20ポイント  (18子コメント)

The DSM V considers Gender Dysphoria as an effect as opposed to a cause.

Source: http://www.dsm5.org/documents/gender%20dysphoria%20fact%20sheet.pdf

The section in question:

It is important to note that gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder. The critical element of gender dysphoria is the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition.

As for the second part, the NIH published a paper that reported 90.2% of the Male to Female trans people who responded (n=119) said "...their expectations for life as a woman were fulfilled postoperatively".

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4261554/

The section in question:

119 (46.9%) of the patients filled out and returned the questionnaires, at a mean of 5.05 years after surgery (standard deviation 1.61 years, range 1–7 years). 90.2% said their expectations for life as a woman were fulfilled postoperatively. 85.4% saw themselves as women. 61.2% were satisfied, and 26.2% very satisfied, with their outward appearance as a woman; 37.6% were satisfied, and 34.4% very satisfied, with the functional outcome. 65.7% said they were satisfied with their life as it is now.

[–]27sandshrews 4ポイント5ポイント  (8子コメント)

So the DSM V seems to say (correct if I'm wrong I just want to know) that gender non conformity is not a mental disorder, the gender dysphoria is because of the distress it causes?

And while I'm at it: gender nonconformity is a mental state, correct? So where is the line between mental state and disorder? It appears to me that other people have a very different connotation of the word 'disorder' than I do (might be because I have OCD). I have always seen the definition as an 'irregularity' not a 'sickness'. And if the definition is considered to be 'irregularity' would not gender non conformity fall into the category of disorder? I see the reason they would shy away from calling it that because other people are closed minded and would use it to vilify transgendered people as sick. But technically could it be considered a disorder?

[–]zachismyname89 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have OCD as well... The struggle is real, and I agree with your statement

[–]EpicEuonym 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

For something to be a disorder, it must cause you significant distress, or cause negativity with interactions with others. Gender nonconfirmity isn't a disorder because, with an accepting society, it wouldn't cause distress or negative interactions with others, whereas gender dysphoria would remain a disorder because it causes distress (in fact, it is distress).

[–]YosterGeo 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Why not call it a mental deviation? That's both linguistically and statistically accurate.

[–]EpicEuonym 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Sure, it's a mental deviation, but so is depression, anxiety, et cetera. But transgenderism is also a neurostructural deviation. TL;DR: certain brain structures, such as the stria terminalis and hypothalamus, have distinct structural similarities between transgender individuals identifying as one sex and non-transgender individuals of that sex itself.

[–]YosterGeo 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Interestingly depression and anxiety are often caused by external stress.

[–]funnyredditname 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

Thanks for the linking to source material.

"(46.9%) of the patients filled out and returned the questionnaires." wouldn't this suggest that the data has a large margin of error if over 50% of people declined to respond?

"90.2% said their expectations for life as a woman were fulfilled". When the expectations are being set by the individual receiving the surgery in the first place this is not a surprising number.

To be honest the only telling statistic is that only 65.7% said they were satisfied with their life as it is now. Combine that with the fact that over half didn't want to fill out the questionnaire and it really sounds like surgery is at best good for 2/3 and more likely 1/2 of people.

[–]Lily_Bubs 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

That's actually really great participation for this kinda study. More often than not, people are just lazy and don't fill these out or don't return them. Often in psych or other participation studies there is a lot of trouble getting people to respond. Not because they don't wanna, but simply because it's just another thing to remember. It's not as if the surveyors can force you, at least not without affecting the outcome of the study. Also the n is 119, which is pretty damn good.

I mean surgery isn't the end all be all of a trans person's mental wellbeing. Sure maybe the surgery wasn't the ONE thing they needed to be satisfied with life. But coupling that question with the other ones, the researchers conclude that while it was of note and concern (In this study!) that only half of the questionnaires were returned, that the overall benefit of the surgery was worth it. In their own words:

While some transgender individuals are able to realize their gender identity without surgery, for many gender reassignment surgery is an essential, medically necessary step in the treatment of their gender dysphoria (5). Research conducted to date has shown that gender reassignment surgery has a positive effect on subjective wellbeing and sexual function (2, 6, 7). The surgical procedure (penile inversion with sensitive clitoroplasty) is described in eBox 1.

Oh and as an aside. There are many trans people who don't feel that they need or want surgery and they live perfectly happy lives as who they are. This is (as is said above) an option, not an imperative.

[–]hip-bro-blade 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

The data to support him is in the suicide rate attempts of transgender people. http://www.vocativ.com/culture/lgbt/transgender-suicide/ (41%).

Also, I saw recently that Johns Hopkins treats transgender tendencies(?) as a mental disorder. http://cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change

I'd say withholding an opinion on this before praising or denouncing it would be the wise move.

[–]Ryaubee 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

gender dysphoria is techincally still a diagnosis, but is widely regarded as a shitty one. The majority of mental health professionals are calling to have it removed from the DSM-5, and probably will be removed soon.

But more importantly, and something a lot of people need to understand, is that just because something is a DSM diagnosis doesn't make it a problem. In order to be diagnosed with anything from the DSM-5, you have to be experiencing "marked cognitive dissonance" directly resulting from symptoms. If you aren't, you can't be diagnosed. So someone can have symptoms of gender dysphoria, and still not fit the criteria for a diagnosis.

[–]stuck_with_mysql 60ポイント61ポイント  (18子コメント)

why did you feel the need for the last sentences. All 3 examples could still exist with segregated bathrooms. Since you talk about exposing others bias, you vilify pedophiles as if they choose their sexual preference whilst viewing transgender behaviour in a different light.

[–]drakoslayr 19ポイント20ポイント  (16子コメント)

A tiger is a tiger and can do tiger things like maul people. While a tiger is born a tiger, it is not bias to separate a tiger from those it can damage. It may not be a pedophiles fault for being attracted to children, but it can only be best for the child that the 2 are separate.

/u/pathslog 's point in this is "...as different people realize their potential to feel better in life" is that a transgender being a transgender doesn't involve anyone else. A pedophile doing things pedophiles like to do..... can hurt other people.

[–]The_Doculope 22ポイント23ポイント  (8子コメント)

Then we should have separate childrens bathrooms, not separate gender bathrooms.

It may not be a pedophiles fault for being attracted to children, but it can only be best for the child that the 2 are separate.

Most men are attracted to women. It's not their fault. Are you saying that the primary reason we have separated bathrooms now is because men and women are attracted each other and pose a threat to each other?

A pedophile doing things pedophiles like to do..... can hurt other people.

I like women, does that mean I like to rape women? You are conflating paedophiles and and child molesters, which, in a discussion about non-choice issues like transgenderism, is extremely hypocritical.

[–]drakoslayr 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

are pedophiles not at least slightly more likely to harm a child? Are less than 50% of child molesters attracted to children? I'm no proponent of thought crime, but safety is a game of percentages. The post is referring to people with the potential to do damage in a bathroom, ones that could be willing to actually do the damage, not the "average functioning pedophile" and that's what I was refering to just to be clear.

[–]hoonmaster 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

And a gay would be more likely to rape a man or at least sexually assault/harass than a hetero. I guess with the "game of percentages", gays shouldn't be in the military, an organization primarily consisting of men.

[–]stuck_with_mysql 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

who said a pedophile has to do things a pedophile likes to do, what even are the things a pedophile likes to do. I was only really responding to that last point of his in any case since he defended transgender as not being a "sickness" but wasn't so accepting of all orientations. I could argue society pandering to the whims of a few sets a bad image for children

[–]JwA624 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

You're right. There's a difference between people who are attracted to children and people who molest children. I've wanted to punch people in the face as hard as I could on several occasions in my life. I never once have gone through with it. Should I be jailed for assault like the others who, unlike me, couldn't control their compulsion?

No. Pedophilia is not a crime. Child molestation is a crime.

But one step further, it's also not a sickness. Unless you also want to say that being gay is a sickness.

[–]pkayl 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pedophiles may not choose their sexual preferences but by definition they can't have consensual sex. Ergo, all sex a pedophile has with a child is rape and hurts someone. Transgendered people aren't hurting anyone when they have consensual sex in a body they simply feel more comfortable in.

[–]isen7 22ポイント23ポイント  (13子コメント)

Other conditions he mentions, such as anorexia, cause real physical damages to your health. And as far as I know, feeling transgender will not make anyone sick to the point their lives are at risk. Somehow, it seems offsetting to assume transgendering is a disease that needs treatment when there is no solid evidence to uphold that. Feel free to point to any serious scientific study concludes that. I'll be happy to take that into account next time I talk to anyone about this.

The suicide rates for transgendered people are ridiculously higher than any other demographic. That is what the research that he was citing talked about, "covering over the real problem".

The attempted suicide rates for straight people in Canada are 1 in 167 every year. For Transgendered Canadians, it's 1 in 9.

[–]Greenlink12 8ポイント9ポイント  (10子コメント)

Think that might have something to do with how society pressures them into specific gender roles that they don't feel they conform to? Maybe not an inherent physical defect that ends in harm to oneself? Not to say that the mental fatigue incurred by a transgender individual isn't serious and, in an unfortunately large number, deadly, but that probably doesn't stem from a deterioration of their physical health caused by their transexuality.

[–]MrFanzyPanz 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

I remember reading somewhere that the post-op suicide rate for transgendered peoples was much lower than pre-op. However, it was also 3 times higher than the average.

I'm sorry but I'm too tired to source this. But you seem reasonable and intelligent so if you want to find it I'm sure you can pretty quickly. Either that or you'll find something against it that I'll read about tomorrow.

[–]The50rr0w 18ポイント19ポイント  (9子コメント)

The absolutely crazy thing about Fr. Schimitz? These arguments aren't exactly his. They are the stances of the Catholic Church.

[–]TheBeardOfMoses 5ポイント6ポイント  (7子コメント)

That's actually not true. The Catholic Church has no official teaching on transgenderism.

[–]The50rr0w 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him, male and female he created them. Genesis 1:27

Granted the Magisterium and the Church as a whole have remained silent, but this is an integral part of Church teaching. Heck, just look at Theology of the Body.

[–]TheBeardOfMoses 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yes being male and female is indelible, but that has nothing to do with whether or not gender reassignment surgery is advisable. Having your genitals operated on won't change your sex, the physical nature of your body; I don't know anyone who says it would. But it can satisfy your strong desires, which can be harmful for some people if left unsatisfied (see transgender self harm and suicide rates). The Catholic Church says nothing at all about whether or not those desires can morally be satisfied, so they have no real teaching on the issue at hand.

[–]pezzshnitsol 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

As a Catholic, I would imagine that the Church would be opposed to gender reassignment surgery. God made man and woman, each with their own purpose and each with their own gifts. To modify your genitals would be to reject God's gift (ha. ha.).

That being said, I don't think a person needs to fall into whatever gender rolls they perceive they should. If a man wants to grow out his hair, shave his legs, and wear a dress and high heels then he is entitled to that. Similarly with women. They can change their names if they want to too. I think if the Church takes an official position it will probably be against surgery and possibly hormones as well (but I won't presume to know). Beyond that, live your lifestyle however you choose.

[–]theBergmeister 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's implicit as of yet.

[–]Hormisdas 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Technically the Church has not, but the implied teaching by the Church is very clear.

[–]SuperFreddy 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not in transgenderism directly, but they do have teachings on the body and one's sex. These teachings are mutually exclusive with the position that a person can be born in the wrong body. In fact, the Catholic Church recognizes no distinction between sex and gender.

[–]WobbleWobbleWobble 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

This was the first video from someone religious that I didn't just shut off because their arguments were not logical at all.

[–]murphykills 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

how is it not a problem or a sickness when the current solution is to mutilate a person's body? when people are willing to kill themselves because they can't cope with it? i'd call that a problem or a sickness.

[–]theBergmeister 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly. Surgery of the body doesn't mend illness of the mind.

[–]Odojas 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

We were talking about gender in sub today and this video is relevant to the discussion. It asks these questions and tries to answer them.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2702un_horizon-2014-2015-7-is-your-brain-male-or-female_tech

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E577jhf25t4

[–]rap_my_post_pls 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Summing up that second video with one webcomic:

http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=1883

[–]eixan 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

No the documentry is saying the oppsite 18:24

We see clear differences between healthy girls and boys from the age nine months.Boys choose masculine toys.Girls choose feminine toys

[–]tits-mchenry 7ポイント8ポイント  (7子コメント)

Couldn't the severe depression and suicidal tendencies that come from feeling transgender be considered serious physical problems for your health?

[–]Ryaubee 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

not if they stem from the illness itself.

Mental health symptoms should only be treated if they're stemming from an internalized issue within the patient. For example, symptoms of depression result from the creation of negative coping skills that are utilized by the individual to cope with deeper, emotional struggles. The symptoms are treated in order to find the deeper roots of the problem.

If you're experiencing mental health symptoms that are directly related to society's view on the issue, than it DOES become a cultural problem, and less of an individual one.

Should we be treating all the people in Africa that experience visual hallucinations? All the religious americans claiming they've had an experience with God? of course not. Because these symptoms aren't causing marked distress on their life. And they aren't stemming from any internalized issue.

[–]tits-mchenry 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

I have a pretty strong feeling transsexuals aren't just depressed because of how society views them, but rather how they view themselves. That disconnect between who they see themselves as and who they physically are can be very mentally troubling.

[–]Ryaubee 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

I agree. And I feel that the way they view themselves is negative BECAUSE they're living in a society that doesn't allow them to express themselves honestly. They feel like they're unable to be themselves, and they hate themselves for it.

I see it a lot in my clients that are homosexual, and unable to tell those they love. They form such a serious sense of resentment towards themselves. It's one of the hardest things for us therapists to work on.

[–]selfservice0 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Cutting off your body parts (penis) and taking unnatural hormones sure sounds harmful to me.

I'm all for people having the freedom to do whatever they want with their body. However if there was some other type of treatment that was safer and less invasive that was at least an option for people it could help many.

[–]pitypitybangbang 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

And as far as I know, feeling transgender will not make anyone sick to the point their lives are at risk.

I disagree with you here. It often causes distress to the point of suicide/suicide attempt, which is harm. It can also lead to self mutilation or other forms of self harm.

EDIT: you also asked for studies to support this: here ya go

[–]whattrees 13ポイント14ポイント  (41子コメント)

I feel like he may be either unaware or ignoring the difference between sex and gender, as they are not interchangeable terms. Sex is a description of your physical genitalia. That most often falls into two categories, but there are people who don't fall neatly into either box, those we call Intersex. Gender, on the other hand, is a description of how you fit into the culturally established norms of gender. Gender is defined by culture and, as he mentioned, is largely arbitrary. Some cultures have defined gender such that people of the male sex act in a way we in the west would associate with sexual females. Their male gender is different than ours, but their physical sex remains the same.

Edit: I'd like to add that Gender is something that exists along a continuum. Just like sex, not everyone fits nicely into the male or female gender box.

Transgender people identify with a gender (and not necessarily sex) different from the one they were given at birth. In that sense, changing one's sex is optional and is done to better fit into the cultural norms expected from members of a certain gender. However, it can also be done for other reasons.

The issue here is that his analogies are all a person's belief that are contrary to demonstrable facts, not opinion. That little boy is not a dog, we can demonstrate that, we can show that his belief is contrary to reality. We could do a DNA test, or analyse his bone structure. That girl was not fat, we could do a BMI or % body fat content to show that she is, demonstrably, not fat. That women had functioning legs, the doctors did tests and determined that is was body dysmorphia in the first place. A person's gender identity is not something we can prove to be true or false. It is inherently arbitrary and individual. So if a person says that they identify with a gender other than the sex they given at birth, who is a better expert about their own identity than the individual? How could we possibly go about demonstrating that they are wrong?

[–]izomo 14ポイント15ポイント  (13子コメント)

You failed to understand what he was saying. Gender is your perception and sex is the reality. Then you go off saying "well we can prove all these peoples perceptions are wrong by tests" then say you can't have a test for gender which is the perception which makes no sense.

You can show the boy isn't a dog, but he could still feel and act like one. Especially with the woman with functioning legs, you could yell at her all day long that her legs work but if her perception is that they don't work then she won't beable to walk.

[–]promefeeus 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Gender is too broad a term that doesn't really apply to any individual in the same way, I think its an archaic term that should be gotten rid of. What does it mean you don't identify with male gender? What does male gender entail? You can't answer this question factually, its all opinion. To think we can define the male or female or whatever sex's experience and name it a "Gender", wholly separate from its biological counterpart, is absurd. It's like reading ancient philosophy on metaphysics and trying to form real equations with it.

[–]PhaetonsFolly 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

How does ever expanding the ways we can classify ourselves really help humanity? At what point is ideology bound by reality? If we can't identify how a person should be then on what grounds can we declare any mental state an illness beyond a group concensous?

I feel the biggest difference you see with religious people on this topic is that we feel there is a right way of being and we try to aline our bodies and minds towards it.

[–]SkyJohn 20ポイント21ポイント  (9子コメント)

So if a person says that they identify with a gender other than the sex they given at birth, who is a better expert about their own identity than the individual? How could we possibly go about demonstrating that they are wrong?

His point was that men don't know what it feels like to feel female and women don't know what it feels like to feel like you're male.

So how could someone go to a doctor and say they feel either way and prove that.

And how can that doctor judge whether that kind of claim is true when there isn't really a test to find out if someone is mentally female or male.

[–]Ryaubee 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

but isn't the priest assuming the man that feels like a woman SHOULD know how it feels to be a man?

What if the man felt like a woman his entire life? Wouldn't it make sense that he WOULDN'T know how it feels to be a man?

[–]notgeneric 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's the opposite. He's assuming there is no feeling of being man or being a woman. He's saying that fitting into the cultural stereotypes of masculine or feminine don't define a persons's sex.

There is no feeling of man, there is the feeling of manliness that comes from for example: acting like a lumberjack. Playing with dolls doesn't make someone less of a man, it only means they don't fit into the stereotype of how a man is expected to act.

[–]promefeeus 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

So if a person says that they identify with a gender other than the sex they given at birth, who is a better expert about their own identity than the individual?

I thought you said you can't equate gender to sex? Anyway, the argument isn't about gender. It's about sex, and changing from a man to a woman isn't changing your gender, it is changing your sex. Keeping your genitals and acting like a different gender is still transgender.

[–]whattrees 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

I said they shouldn't be used interchangeably, which I did not. Gender and Sex are both described using the terms "Male" and "Female" so if a person says they identify with the male gender but they were born with female sex organs than who is better than them to decide if their physical sex should change?

Imagine if you were suddenly transported to a culture where sexual males were assigned all of the gender roles and stereotypes that we associate with females and vice versa. Would you choose to identify with the sex you were given at birth or the identity that best fits who you are?

This is about both sex and gender. Both play a role in this conversation. As you mentioned, not all transgenders choose to change their sex so any conversation about the Transgender population is going to be about both. If we are only talking about sex reassignment surgery than you might have a point but those do not take place in a vacuum.

[–]promefeeus 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Well you said a different gender than the sex they are given at birth, implying that the sex they are given at birth is a form of gender.

I don't really feel the need to associate with a gender, I associate with my sex. And besides that I realize I am an individual and don't share all the same traits as the people in my sex. The logic of the whole gender VS sex argument goes out the window when you decide that they both get to keep the name "male" and "Female"

[–]whattrees 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I apologize if that's how it came across, but that was certainly not my implication.

[–]promefeeus 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

No need to apologize, I understand this argument can get a big convoluted and its easy to get caught up in jargon and semantics. I just feel that there's no need to define anything as a gender, its a useless buzz word. Sex should be defined as having a male or female sex organs, its unnecessary for people to imply that liking a certain color or preferring certain cars should be associated with one sex or the other. Defining people by their gender is lazy and categorical, its no different than saying you're a goth or a prep or a rocker.

[–]whattrees 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wholeheartedly agree. Gender is an arbitrary and useless category that we try to apply to people. Liking a certain color or style is no more intrinsic to one gender or the other than eating a certain type of food is intrinsic to the people of a certain location. Using physical sex instead of gender would certainly help the confusion, but I wonder about the individuals who don't fit into either sex very well. It seems like it might solve this problem by creating another one with intersex people.

[–]stuck_with_mysql 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

so because its not falsifiable it must be true? People are able to convince themselves they feel god within so i'm not convinced by the "who is a better expert about their own identity" arguments

[–]isubird33 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

So many props for hearing sound, reasonable arguments from a religious person.

Us Catholics usually try to be pretty welcoming and understanding.

[–]QualityGiraffe 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You just made something click in my mind and utterly change my perspective on gender. Thank you so much. Mind you, if it there was some treatment that could eliminate someone's anxiety and dysphoria about their biological sex, I still don't see how that is less preferable to the messy approximation of surgery and hormones, not to mention legal and personal hoops that have to be jumped through (not that I am for a second making one of those "people of group x should be persecuted because if they fight for acceptance they'll one get persecuted more!" arguments).

[–]areyousrslol 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Your argument also starts out as if it will be nice, but you make different, but fundamentally also unfounded base presumptions. It doesn't make sense.

If transgenderism is benign, why should it be treated? If it's not being treated, should healthcare cover it? Is it cosmetic? Nothing makes sense.

Transgenderism is clearly a problem, and it's not a problem with the body, it IS a problem with the mind. What you decide to call it is irrelevant. And it is the mind, because that's where thoughts, feelings and consciousness arise.

You just start with a fundamental opinion and figure out ways to get to it from any starting point.

[–]Nokcihc 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

First off I'd like to say that I have no real opinion here as, like you stated, there is no real scientific evidence that I'm aware of that says being transgender is or is not a psychological disorder.

That said, it seems like you're doing exactly what you're condemning most Christians for doing yourself. You're arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm not aware of any study proving that being transgender is not a psychological disorder. As you said, if there is such a study, please point it out to me.

I'm not trying to say it definitely is and there is obviously no apparent health issues associated with being transgender, minus maybe depression, but simply deciding one way without any proof doesn't make any sense. Up until I watched this video I had mostly just supported transgender people because it didn't bother me any at all. Not that I don't support them now, but now I'm more aware of the fact that I actually have no clue why these people feel the way they do.

It could very well be some sort of disorder. It could be that there are just transgender people in the world. I don't know. Until I have some form of proof one way or the other, I'm not going to make any assumptions.

As far as your other point about plastic surgeries and things go, that would be a very valid point, but no one is actually stopping people from having gender reversal surgery. Plenty of people have those surgeries every day. The idea here is that maybe we shouldn't just be doing these surgeries because people are paying because maybe there is actually something wrong with them. Again, we don't know.

Your final point, gender roles, is a little lackluster. As much as you'd like to deny it and people would like to get away from it, both genders are different and gender roles exist. Even if you think they don't affect your way of thinking, they probably do. I find myself wondering why I think a certain way about genders all the time and realize that was just how things have been for as long as I can remember. Even without gender roles, the genders are still vastly different and there will always be differences.

As I said before, if someone has some scientific study that proves that being transgender is either a disorder or not I would love to see it. Until then I'm going to continue to have no opinion on what these people do with their lives.

[–]Achilles17 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Somehow, it seems offsetting to assume transgendering is a disease that needs treatment when there is no solid evidence to uphold that. Feel free to point to any serious scientific study which concludes that.

There are many psychological disorders that may not put someone's life at risk but it most definitely affect people's lives in a harmful way. Think of bipolar disorder or depression in general. Some people have to deal with these problems every day and it can indeed cause a lot of problems. He is making very reasonable assumption that this within the same realm of disorders.

Why do people wear makeup...etc? They all feel something is missing to feel better about their bodies and themselves.

It can easily be argued that people who are transgendered or have same sex attractions suffer from a far greater self identity issues than those who are simply a little bit insecure, which is much more common. One is considered more "normal" while the other goes against the historical natural state of society. On one hand you have someone making a temporary change of putting on makeup whereas having a transgender operation is mutilating your body to an irreversible state. They can hardly be considered the same.

Why do girls mostly like pink and boys mostly like blue? It's all arbitrary.

Which is somewhat true, it is considered more normal or natural for girls to like dolls etc. But being born a male or female is not arbitrary. Biologically and genetically, when you are conceived you are either either a male or a female with the corresponding genitalia. Males have XY chromosomes and females have XX chromosomes. That is not arbitrary.

[–]Azothlike 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

And as far as I know, feeling transgender will not make anyone sick to the point their lives are at risk.

Gender Identity Dysphoria was and is the cause of many, many, many suicides.

Before and after Gender Reassignment Surgery. Pre-surgery criteria were put into place specifically to prevent the rash of people killing themselves post-surgery.

Why do we need separate bathrooms for each gender? It's abitrary.

No. It's not arbitrary. 96% of the population is heterosexual, and bathrooms require exposing your genitals. Separate sex bathrooms are designed to prevent strangers from co-mingling nude genitals with people they might be sexually interested in. Saying "aside from perverts" is like saying "Nuclear bombs are great, aside from people who would make them go boom boom. Totally nothing wrong with them."

Your entire post is rubbish, TBH.

[–]calm_rational_debate 21ポイント22ポイント  (7子コメント)

A belief I feel quite strongly about is "None of my business".

If two gay men want to get married, it is none of my business.

If you want to smoke yourself into an early grave, it is none of my business.

And if you want to manually change your body to resemble someone else's, it is none of my business.

If you want my personal advice, ask. But if you don't ask, I will happily consider your decisions none of my damn business.

[–]kylev 102ポイント103ポイント  (33子コメント)

FWIW, the doctor he cites (Dr. Paul McHugh) isn't exactly on the side of science or our current best understanding. His position is in opposition to Johns Hopkins' own position among many others. McHugh is staking out a minority position. Oh, and they stopped the surgery in 1979 because McHugh was in charge, not because of some larger consensus. We know a lot more since then.

Here is McHugh's opinion article from the WSJ, and a pretty thorough response with citations and links. In a way, McHugh seems to be a bit of a "Linus Pauling" (a Nobel winner that went off the rails and decided vitamin C cured all cancer).

Additionally, I appreciate the Father's effort, but he's doing a bit of a tap dance. He declares that there is no "essential" experience of male or female (with no scholarly backing whatsoever), then decides that all of gender is stereotypes and gender roles. I'll ignore that the Catholic church certainly thinks that there is something really goddamn essential about being male (see the "no-chicks-allowed" clergy)...

There is a huge difference between stereotypical male/female child behavior (something society imposes) and one's internal understanding of self. There is a huge difference between a kid pretending to be a dog for a day and an adult living with a lifetime of discordance (and the comparison is frankly rude). There is an ocean of distance between a person who requests amputation and a transgender person who goes through years of psychological evaluation, living their transition, and eventually getting gender confirmation surgery.

Overall, I give the priest a "B-" for earnest effort and a "D" for motivated reasoning (particularly for seeking out about the only doctor in the field that supports this position).

[–]TheBeardOfMoses 23ポイント24ポイント  (4子コメント)

I understand everything you said except about the amputee. What if the person who wants their arm amputated has also been through years of therapy? I honestly don't understand why you seem to think that's the biggest difference, when it seems to me the biggest similarity

[–]ROKMWI 5ポイント6ポイント  (9子コメント)

Not surprising about that the doctor that was mentioned.

He declares that there is no "essential" experience of male or female (with no scholarly backing whatsoever)

Is it possible to do a scientific study on something like this? Has it been done? Do you yourself "feel" male/female? The guy in the video seemed to assume nobody does from his experiences, and felt that it was an obvious thing that doesn't require a citation.

There is an ocean of distance between a person who requests amputation and a transgender person who goes through years of psychological evaluation, living their transition, and eventually getting gender confirmation surgery.

Is there? To me it sounded like a real disorder, and a quick search on Wikipedia seems to confirm that, so I don't see how there would be any difference.

[–]EpicEuonym 4ポイント5ポイント  (7子コメント)

This is related to your first point: psychologically, it has been tested that transgender kids show their gender identity is deeply held, and their feeling of male/femaleness is the same as the feeling of male/femaleness of non-transgender people. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/01/150129132924.htm

[–]brycedriesenga 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

It seems to me the most forward-thinking and inclusive notion would be to completely disregard gender as a society.

[–]DrHoratioCornblower 15ポイント16ポイント  (16子コメント)

100%. And also... when did reddit suddenly become religiously conservative?

[–]OrderOfTheStone 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know about the rest of reddit but I just feel confused.

Most issues seem pretty obvious (racism, abortion, homosexuality, and whatever else) if you just approach them from the frameworks of "just let people do what they want as long as they aren't hurting anybody", "be kind to people (even if what they are doing doesn't make sense to you)", and "evidence = good", but gender is just baffling. There's hardly even a good definition of the word. If you ask five cis people and five trans people about gender, you'll probably get ten different answers. Obviously yeah if someone wants sex reassignment surgery to make themselves feel good then fuck it, who cares? But that isn't understanding the issue. I don't even get the issue at all. The only point of view I can come up with that doesn't have any obvious counterarguments is that gender is 100% false and bad and trans people are just victims of this false dichotomy which imprisons us all, but then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ wtf do we do about that?

So then I guess the father is sort of right that sex reassignment surgery is just sticking a band-aid on a much larger issue, but wtf else can you do without significantly restructuring society in a way that's never been seen before?

[–]surged_ 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

I dont think reddit became conservative, its just seeing a nice well thought argument from a religious standpoint is... refreshing, most here probably dont agree with it but still.

[–]encouragethestorm 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

nice well thought argument from a religious standpoint

Catholicism offers so many well-thought out arguments with which many people sadly don't seem to have any familiarity. The Church has a long and storied intellectual tradition that has inspired great thinkers to formulate insightful and compelling answers to some of the toughest questions. Catholic intellectuals are not idiots, but they often just keep to Church circles and neglect to communicate to people on the outside what they think.

[–]elmarko44 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

There's just enough folksy, simple sciencey stuff in here to appeal to our base ignorance and still make us feel like its factual.

However, gender and sexuality is not binary. Sex is binary, but gender and sexuality and the resultant sexual identity is not binary. In other words, gender isn't as simple as this guy presents it.

I am male, I identify as male, and I am heterosexual, so I have never experienced sexual or gender ambiguity. And clearly, neither has this guy. However, that doesn't mean gender and sexual ambiguity doesn't exist. It's easy for us who are are not fluid with our sexuality or gender to deny the fact that another person may be. And it's easy to agree with this priest, to say "he makes sense" because we share a similar experience - because his experience resonates with ours.

His experience is his experience. Our experience is our experience. And there is a whole universe out there of things we will never experience, never understand, and which will never "make sense" to us. But they do exist. People with gender and sexual ambiguity exist, and they deserve our respect.

[–]Evems 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

He looks like Jon Hamm.

[–]kiwimonster21 16ポイント17ポイント  (3子コメント)

I wonder how credible his points are. Logically speaking they sound valid, comparing multiple disorder with similar characteristics seems like it may work. Chemically and physiologically speaking I wonder if these are similar in the brain. Similar to the different types of addiction, do they all have similar roots or similar characteristics. I would be interesting to know if there is a link between the ideas.

Having simply no experience with this means my opinion on the subject is invalid, but his points for a person from the outside looking in seem very good for his perspective on the subject. Maybe someone else can shed some light from the other side, maybe someone who went through the surgery and years later can explain how it has changed their life or maybe how their perception has changed.

[–]ballabrad 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Jon Hamm is awesome

[–]superbleeder98 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

He looks like what I'd imagine Bruce Wayne would look like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZKSux2K57g&t=6m40s

[–]ThisIsMyFloor 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well that is one shitty title... I'm thinking of flairing it but I can't fit that much information that is needed in so few characters.

[–]Ienjoytherain 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am not trying to start a huge thing but he believes in the bible, correct? The fathers perception on the bible must be so on point with reality that he doesn't "change his perception to match reality." Thats what atheists are, there perception with religion doesn't match reality.

Here is a video on his perception of atheists; he states that if they dont believe in god then people dont believe in free will which he then turns into if freewill does not exist then there is no right or wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68FQV0iLFeA

im not saying he is completely wrong in this video, i did agree with most of it but he should not be using "perception vs reality" as a core point in his argument.

[–]ralphpig 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

There are good and bad members of religion. He is a good one.

[–]TomSachs 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

What is the haircut he has called?

[–]hoppingvampire 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Handsome White guy #6.

[–]allhailsanta 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I want that head of hair when I'm 40 too.

[–]isen7 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think people are dismissing this video because they believe it has something to do with religion, but this guy doesn't bring up any religious views for transgenders.

[–]ThePoorNeedChange 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

And the only "religious" thing he talked about was essentially "let's be nice to each other."

[–]mrfundementalone 8ポイント9ポイント  (5子コメント)

So then if this priest's idealized version of a man and woman can't really understand what the opposite sex feels wouldn't it then follow that being tranagendered is not a "false assessment" because they "feel" gender in the way that statistically average males and females don't? Thus making them the opposite gender they believe they are since it is felt?

[–]REBOG 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Watch the video again. He is saying you have to look past your perception, or "feeling", and look at the worldly signs of what gender you are....your body

[–]oldmoneey 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

I thought this was being upvoted out of respect for an uncharacteristically respectful argument, I had no idea people actually agreed with him.

There is more to transgenderism than liking the other gender's stuff. Transgenderism is almost certainly biological in origin, likely a hormonal thing. His argument, while respectful and well articulated, is ill informed and not fully thought through and you shouldn't be taking it very seriously.

[–]spaci999 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's only repeating the Catholic opinion on the matter in a calm tone of voice. What redditors don't seem to understand is that people can make uninformed, reactionary arguments without frothing at the mouth like a street preacher.

[–]dnytm 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's actually kinda sad in my opinion, though maybe I'm biased for thinking Reddit is (in general) shit. Between supporting transgender people or listening to a priest, the religion-hating Reddit population sides with a priest.

Edit: And anyone disagreeing with the priest, or calling out that his arguments aren't all that great are being downvoted lol.

[–]oldmoneey 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

There is also an anti-SJW side, who get riled when people mention some issue of race or LGBT rights.

[–]ChristinaRigoletto 17ポイント18ポイント  (8子コメント)

woof woof

[–]the_comatorium 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm a straight agnostic male and I would join his church to look at those beautiful blue eyes of his.

[–]swefdd 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

No you are a faggot you are not allowed in his church.

[–]GrandMasterSpaceBat 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

what the fuck did you just say to me you little shit

[–]mattcnz 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'm glad this video is being upvoted and a civil discussion is going on. I'm extremely surprised

[–]WhenTheSkyFalls 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

Great video. I agree entirely. This will likely end up being downvoted into oblivion though.

[–]suburban-cowboy 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Here is a guy of the faith, who shows nothing but kindness throughout the video, and it gets tossed aside by most of these comments. For "sources", like he's trying to publish this video to the scientific community for review. What a bunch of pedants here. Those who would ignore a dose of love, only because there's no footnote at the bottom stating the reputable source that it came from.

More than likely, it's that these comments come from those who have one, and only one opinion on most topics (opposite something the priest in the video believes obviously), and who would find any minor detail to scrap an entire "argument" (though he doesn't seem to wish to argue with anyone, other than to urge fellow Catholics to care). Or, it comes from the "intellectuals". The ones who don't care one way or another, as long as they can either sound intelligent or prove that someone else doesn't. Especially if they're religious. Like shooting fish in a barrel, right?

You are the reason the world sucks.

[–]lookielue 26ポイント27ポイント  (11子コメント)

His entire argument labors under a nasty misconception: that transgenderism is a delusion.

He uses anorexia as a comparison, but the two are fundamentally different. An anorexic sees themselves as fat despite evidence to the contrary. A transgendered person does not look in the mirror and see a different body, they are well aware that their physical form and genitalia are male/female.

I also find myself notching an eyebrow at the notion that gender differences (dolls vs trucks, etc.) are wholly arbitrary. It's an easy claim to make, and certainly sounds progressive and egalitarian, but is there any evidence to support this claim? I recall studies a few years back that indicated otherwise.

To my ears this rings of false sympathy built on a faulty understanding of the condition. Nowhere in his argument did I hear a call to be more accepting of transgendered individuals, indeed most of his argument put the burden of change on the individual themselves.

[–]illStudyTomorrow 60ポイント61ポイント  (7子コメント)

that transgenderism is a delusion.

We already know, conclusively, that for many people it is a delusion. The question we should be asking is not whether it is a delusion or not, but whether in every case it is a delusion.

Here's Britain's youngest transgender surgery patient telling his regrets.

Here's another telling of regret

There's also the case of Alan Fitch that you can look up online. He had this to say: "Transsexualism was invented by psychiatrists.… You fundamentally can’t change sex.... The surgery doesn’t alter you genetically. It’s genital mutilation. My "vagina" was just the bag of my scrotum. It’s like a pouch, like a kangaroo. What’s scary is you still feel like you have a penis when you’re sexually aroused. It’s like phantom limb syndrome. It’s all been a terrible misadventure. I’ve never been a woman, just Alan."

There's also the late Los Angeles Times sportswriter Mike Penner. After announcing in 2007 that he would return from a vacation as “Christine Daniels” and then becoming a “transgender” activist, he decided to de-transition the next year and reclaim his old Penner byline. But he could not reclaim his sanity. He killed himself a few years ago.

Then there's the case of Nancy Verhelst, a person is so much pain that he asked the Belgian government to kill him via lethal injection, which they did. Then there's the case of Walt Heyer. You can go on and on.

So, it's not a "nasty misconception." It's a fact for at least a significant amount of those who want to surgically alter their genitalia.

So yeah. The thing is, if you take away all the photoshop and affirmations, a reasonable person would consider Bruce a man in a dress wearing make-up. He even has a penis. He talks like a man. Fundamentally, in terms of biological facts, he has all the hormones of a man. But he thinks he is a female.

There are cases of people being born with multiple genitalia, or no working genitalia, or a hormonal system that developed contrary to genitalia. Those are obviously genetic deformities, and surgeries can allow those people to live happy lives.

We don't see that with Bruce. We see a delusional man that the media eggs on.

[–]lookielue 14ポイント15ポイント  (6子コメント)

If you're trying to argue that sexual reassignment does not adequately change a person's sex, then I'm right with you there. It is absolutely a flawed, incomplete procedure, and it comes as no surprise that there are people terribly dissatisfied by the results. Of course there are also those whose lives and self-image are improved by the outcome, hence why it's considered (like all medical procedures) to have a % success rate.

However, you are equating transsexualism to sexual reassignment, and that's not the case. Sexual reassignment is one possible treatment for the condition (and not an ideal one). But as we cannot currently change the biological sex of a person (I say currently because I expect we will, some day, be able to do just that), it remains an available option.

Though, I do not hesitate to point out a that some of the depression and dissatisfaction may stem from being called "a delusional man that the media eggs on" and similar slurs.

[–]infoweasel 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

The opinion of most physicians, according to this study by the National Center for Transgender Equality, is that sexual reassignment is a 'medical necessity' for transsexual persons. I think you might be conflating trans people with gender non-conforming people more generally. Surgery is medically necessary for trans people -- that is, people who have one gender in their brain, but a body that does not agree with it. Not all persons who are non-gender conforming are transexual. My wife, for example, would be considered non-gender conforming by many. She is a quintessential 'tomboy' but does not which to be perceived as a male, nor does she feel uncomfortable in her body.

Surgery may not be a "top priority" right now for every single trans person, but it is vitally important for most trans people. To draw an analogy, you might just as well say "same-sex marriage rights are not a top priority for all gay and lesbian people." Which is to say, true as far as it goes, but it doesn't go very far.

The more important fact here is that, according to the research report by The Task Force and NCTE, the VAST majority of trans people either have had surgery or want surgery, 86% of trans-women and 79% of trans-men.

This data is drawn from the same report, even though it specifically did not include survey results from individuals who reverted to their birth gender.

From Suicide Attempts among Transgender and Gender Non-Conforming Adults by the Williams Institute and the American Council for Suicide Prevention:

Type of Surgery Reports at least one suicide attempt post-surgery
Female to Male Genital Surgery 49%
Male to Female Genital Surgery 43%

That's not including the other types of surgery (6 in total), which have similar rates.

Unfortunately I was unable to provide citable statistics for those who experience mental health issues other than suicide attempts-post surgery, but perhaps someone can help me out here. I postulate, however, that given the extraordinarily high rate of suicide amongst post-surgical transsexuals, that the mental health occurrences are similarly extremely high.

That's not even to bring up anecdotal evidence such as the heart-wrenching stories found at ww.sexchangeregret.com , but I think it's a starting point.

Addressing gender issues in a constructive manner and realizing that gender dysphoria needs be treated, not embraced, is the truly compassionate thing to do. Our current treatment of encouraging body dysmorphics does them no favors personally, and indeed increases the suffering of those individuals by ignoring the actual issue both societally and medically.

EDIT: Removed incorrect statistics from non-citable source.

[–]EpicDavi 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

But as we cannot currently change the biological sex of a person (I say currently because I expect we will, some day, be able to do just that)

Your sex is set in your chromosomes (which are in every cell in your body). If you want to truly change the biological sex, you would have to not only change the DNA in the chromosomes (XX/XY and such), you would have to do it with every cell in the body. You would have to probably do this change (if it were possible) around when the egg is fertilized or something. So basically you would be changing the sex before the baby is even born and thus making it unfeasible because the baby cannot choose.

Source: I am making most of this up but I think it agrees with my high school biology knowledge.

[–]americancontrol 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Clone Ready. Uploading Consciousness. Bingo-Bango.

[–]Greg_T_24 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

This is really fucking weird in that the 'evidence' he gives for invalidating transgender as a psychological paradigm (the body dysmorphia limb amputation thing) is actually the thing that brought me round to thinking the opposite. After psychological evaluation, these people do sometimes have their limbs amputated. Weirdly, they're also sexually attracted to people with the same limbs missing as they feel they need to have amputated. The reasoning behind this (taken from a great book by the neuroscientist V.S Ramachandran) is that these individuals mental archetype of what humans (and themselves) should look like is altered. Their mental template of normal, their brains internal avatar, lacks a specific limb. As far as it being a "delusion" goes, having your brain set up in this way is as real as if the limb were really missing.

Now if that can't be changed (and mostly it can't as far as I understood it) then they will remove the limb. Now, if your mental body image is instead of a different gender rather than just a missing limb... ? I dunno, for me it made me more sympathetic to transgender individuals. (sorry not to address your other points, just seems like we saw similar falsehoods in his argument)

[–]CowboyNinjaAstronaut 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

I get you, but isn't there maybe another treatment to fix the brain's perception to match reality?

I'm not in any way judging transgendered people. It is 100% not a moral issue, but a health issue. And this is different from intersexed people who actually have different chromosomes.

But if I were a doctor, and an 85lb adult skin and bones patient came to me and said "doc, you have to give me diet pills, I feel so fat!" I couldn't do it, and I'd think a doctor should have his medical license revoked for giving that patient what they want. He should be trying to fix the problem whereby the brain has the wrong idea about the state of the body.

When a patient comes to the doctor and says "doc, you have to cut off my dick, I feel like a woman!" shouldn't he maybe be trying to find a way to get the patient's brain to recognize the reality of the body instead of just chopping off limbs?

But you say that today in this hypersensitive culture and it's all "oh you're such a horrible transphobic asshole!" But I kind of wonder if there just hasn't been enough research and in 2115 on hyperreddit there's going to be a post "TIL in 2015 instead of treating patients with gender dysphoria with the simple over the counter chemicals and counseling we use today, doctors just chopped people's dicks off."

[–]Neurotic-Neko 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I get you, but isn't there maybe another treatment to fix the brain's perception to match reality?

Gender dysphoria isn't a delusional disorder, most people with it are more than capable of perceiving reality. The issue lies in a strong feeling of a misalignment between ones gender identity and ones sex.

The current method for treating gender dysphoria is the result of trying to find the most effective way to help the patient. We tried therapy and it did not work, and the only chemical intervention that has had any form of impact has been hormonal. We no longer put trans people in mental hospitals and treat them with anti psychotics, like we did in the 60's and even in the 80's, because it does not work.

chopped people's dicks off.

That not what happens at all.

[–]RTBarleysheath154 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Does this guy remind anyone else of Jon Hamm's character in Kimmy Schmidt?

[–]vit47 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well he isn't really saying anything new. One of the main criticisms of transgenderism is that fact that these people are buying into the idea of traditional gender roles more than anyone. These people believe so strongly that they can't just be a man/woman who likes things traditionally associated with the opposite sex, that they are willing to change their sex entirely. If that isn't supporting traditional gender roles, I don't know what is...but on the other hand I don't really care if that's what people want to do to their bodies. Plastic surgery makes many people much happier, and I don't look at it any differently.

[–]Goddamn_Batman 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

there's no way jason sudekis + john hamm priest is celibate. bro might have a white collar but he fucks. ladies be slidin off their pews and shit

[–]andyroid42 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's right, but it's the individual's choice.

[–]HotWingExtremist 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is exactly what ive said for years. It seems so obvious. But i'm sure this will generate lots of incoherent rabbling from THEM...

[–]amadeusemanu 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm encouraged that reddit users didn't down vote this. Truly proves that the users are actually sensible and don't have agendas.

[–]primus202 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

He makes some good points and outside of some unjust comparisons I agree with what he has to say. I came to this conclusion only because at no point in the video, from what I heard, does he say his views need to be forced on others.

His argument simply seems to be "Let's ensure trans people are psychologically ok and not rush to the operation room" which makes complete sense when talking about a permanent and dangerous surgery.

However if it were to come down to it, I bet the objective of his talking/therapy sessions would be focused on "fixing" the person's transgender feelings (as clued by his absurd comparison of trans-men and tomboys). I'd favor more of an explorative and self-discovery goal to help that person determine what's best for them of their own volition.

[–]OverJealousRapidToad 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would actually like to see what is going in your brain biochemically when suffering from disorders like the one he mentioned (Body Integrity Identity Disorder) and compare it to Gender Dysphoria.

Edit: Found this paper that explores the subject. You can download the pdf and this particular comparison begins at the end of page 3.

[–]Marie_Klee 6ポイント7ポイント  (11子コメント)

Hmm, I used to be an atheist but this video on a unique perspective of transgenderism convinced me that there might be some legitimate truth to dedicating my life to Jesus Christ.

[–]Halo_Dood 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

To second Balrogath, if you're serious, Fr. Barron is another Catholic priest whose social commentary is an easy introduction to the Catholic perspective.

Here he is talking about Batman in "The Dark Knight." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_Nz6y_nreU

[–]FreshPrinceofMN 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow, I was in a wedding this weekend and this is my best friends cousin who married them.

[–]digitalinfidel 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm a dolphin. Doc, set me up. And all y'all muthafuckas best be supporting me or you gonna get sued. My rights. It's who I am. A dolphin.

[–]mm2222 14ポイント15ポイント  (28子コメント)

Take religion out of it, he's actually got a valid point!

[–]GregLoire 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

It was pretty light on religion, other than calling on fellow Catholics to act compassionately toward others in their lives who might be hurting for any reason.

Love and unity are the core of true spirituality, which he seemed to understand.

[–]bbell171 71ポイント72ポイント  (12子コメント)

I feel like there are some people that wont see past the collar

[–]BrazilianRider 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Like the person a few posts above this one who was sarcastically asking when reddit became religious conservatives?

[–]New004 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

This thread is a perfect example of that.

[–]IdRatherBeLurking 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

You mean all the considerate and thoughtful discussion going on at the top? It's rather impressive.

[–]stuck_with_mysql 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yea i'm glad i stayed to watch. Was quite close to closing it down once i noticed the collar but for some reason i didn't

[–]isen7 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

He didn't even mention religion. He did mention anything about how being transgender is against Christianity. All he said were citings from scientific studiest. The only mention he made of religion was the response of Christians to love and care for the "broken" people are them. Not to judge.

[–]drjadco 2ポイント3ポイント  (8子コメント)

I guess.. but why. Why do we need to change our perceptions and not the physical. Is it also immoral for a women to get a breast enlargement? Or should she change her perception.. where is the line. It seems quite arbitrary. Why not change the physical if that helps you? He just completely dismisses what they are feeling as wrong when there is literally no reason to believe that a man thinking his is a woman is wrong. While he approaches a valid point it really is just an opinion in the end.

[–]Freddy216b 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm going to say it here because it's relevant to the subject and I need to say it somewhere. Please remember reddiquette in discussions about sensitive topics like this.

Don't downvote an otherwise acceptable post because you don't personally like it. Think before you downvote and take a moment to ensure you're downvoting someone because they are not contributing to the community dialogue or discussion. If you simply take a moment to stop, think and examine your reasons for downvoting, rather than doing so out of an emotional reaction, you will ensure that your downvotes are given for good reasons.

So that being said, here's my thoughts. I do not understand the gender identification situation. The way I see it is if you have a Y chromosome you are a male AND a man. Two X's is a female AND woman. That's what your biology dictates so that should be what you are.

These conditions do not however mean you have to fall into the "classic gender roles" that do still exist in our society. I don't mind at all if a man wants to be a stay at home father and the woman is the bread winner, that's great. If a woman doesn't want kids for whatever reason, she doesn't have to just because society says she should.

And here's what this all leads to in my mind. If you are a specific sex but don't feel the associated gender represents you isn't this a mental illness? You feel you're actually something you just aren't. A male body produces testosterone which should affect the brain in a specific way so if you feel that differently something might be wrong. Same goes for women.

I know people will not agree with me and I'm going to catch a lot of flak for this but it's just my thinking and my opinion. And i'm also sure I didn't articulate this in the best way but i'm not sure I know how to get my thoughts more concise in this comment.

[–]RamenAvenger 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

He's right, we are who we are. If you're a man who wants to be a woman, you're not a woman, you're a man who wants to be a woman. Bruce Jenner is a man who likes to dress as a woman and takes hormones so he will have more female features. He's not a woman. We can call him a "she" out of respect for him as an individual but it makes him no more a woman than he was before.

[–]kempff 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Mike Rowe's slightly flamboyant little brother.

[–]PlaceForMyPonies 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

What he is saying sounds perfectly reasonable, but is completely off base.

[–]wyntereign 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why do you feel it's off base? This is in no way an attack. I just feel bringing up issues like this tend to have negative reactions from a lot people. He brings up many good points to support his sound argument and it should be taken a face value. It doesn't matter if the topic offends people, or makes them feel uneasy. If it's a rational discussion people should open their minds to the alternatives before jumping in.

[–]curiouslifeform 2ポイント3ポイント  (13子コメント)

While his arguments sound very logical on the surface I think this man is very wrong and misguided.

Christians love to serve up their judgments in a wrapping paper of love. Basically, although he pretends to be following his calling to "walk" with people and listen, he really is fundamentally saying that a person's preferences are wrong.

It is true that some people with body dismorphia need to be helped. At some point we should probably take over and prevent someone from causing themselves further harm. I think this pertains to the person who is deathly thin and perceives themselves overweight. It also pertains to someone wanting their hand removed.

But on the other end of the spectrum we have to respect people's choices. Giving a person boobs is not much different than changing the shape of their nose. And it isn't crippling. Cutting of a penis and creating a fake vagina is a strange choice in my mind. But I can't see it as disfiguring as cutting off a hand or starving yourself to death. Thus I think it falls into the category of things we should let people do to themselves.

His logic can be used against homosexuality as well: "no, you just think you're attracted to the same sex; its not natural - you weren't actually made that way - let us help you get back to reality".

The problem with his perception vs reality argument is that the reality we live in is partially created by the choices we make and who we choose to become. Who am I to say that a person born as a man can't choose to become a woman? Even if I dispute that Bruce Jenner IS a woman trapped in a man's body, I don't feel the need to prevent him from transforming, and living as much as a woman in whatever ways he chooses that enable him to feel that way. It doesn't hurt me and it really is NOT clear (whatever the head of Johns Hopkins Psychiatric Department says) that it hurts Bruce Jenner. Maybe preventing him from following that path, whatever its end, is MORE destructive to Bruce Jenner than allowing it. Human suffering is part of the universe. Its a certainty. Pretending that Christianity has a solution to Human suffering is not the path Jesus laid out. Bottom line: we have the power to create our own identities (to an extent at least) thus our preferences and choices shape reality. Obviously so do the permanent, purely external forces of the universe. But that's not to say that humans don't live in a multi dimensional reality in which there is a plane of existence of ideas and feelings - a plane of existence whose quality is subjective experience. This guy wants to pretend like our preferences must be based on some external reality - which makes sense when you think that he believes in a God that is the creator of everything - But the truth is that we are creators in our own right. We are sentient and have a creative spark within us that should be nurtured, not squashed. It may lead to some stange things but I welcome that.

Edit: I don't love that so many people here on reddit seem to jump at this guy's seeming logic. Its so . . . vulcan. The problem with logic (I learned from Captain Janeway) is that it can be used to justify just about anything. Logic needs to be used while also acknowledging all that we don't know. The unending mystery of the universe need to be embedded into every logical line of reasoning. During the Enlightenment period we saw ourselves as logical beings - different from all other animals. But we are also emotional beings and our emotions give a starting point for use of logic. Cut that off and all you have is a string of logic, unattached to anything. Its like a loose rope. It may have structural integrity, but it isn't doing anything useful. Some people seem to wanna just sit around making rope like some kind of weird masturbatory fetish.

Also, it is to my continual dismay that Christians constantly want to force their beliefs on everyone else. This guy is using an internal system of belief masquerading as universal truth. I really believe that Jesus preached love and acceptance. Christians always seem to stray from that. According to this guy all we have to do is follow the blatant, black-and-white truth of reality laid out for us by God and we'd live without suffering. To me these waters are so nebulous that I don't know what is right or wrong so it is a situation where I think Bruce Jenner gets to choose for himself. I do see a totally plausible reality in which Bruce Jenner's genetic expression gives him the body of a man while telling him he's a woman. Even if that isn't true (which we might never know) and even if it is true that he only thinks he's a woman or wants to become a woman

[–]vaderprime923 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

what I get from this video is that identifying with the social constructs of the gender that you feel more comfortable with is fine, because as he mentioned they are arbitrary, and there is no reason why a man could not identify with the gender stereotypes of women. But, I think he's trying to say that if after that, the person still feels uncomfortable with themselves, that getting a sex change is not the right move because it doesn't help, and that the person really needs love and support from their loved ones to come to peace with themselves. And if this is the message he wants to make, I can agree.

[–]Sixstringkiing 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Im have always thought of myself as a militant atheist and a raging liberal. I fucking despise conservatives and religious people... but I agree with this guy on this topic. I didnt watch all of it but the part at the start when he is saying we dont know what it is like to be the opposite sex and therefore cannot logically say we identify as the other sex makes sense.

Edit. Never mind. I watched it again and this guy is fucking stupid. He says "if our presception dosnt match up with reality then out preception must change." ... then why the fuck is he still religious? If he followed his own advice he would look around and see that there are no demons or angels or any of that religious bullshit and he would wake up and realize his religion is a lie. Instead he desperately hangs on to his bullshit beliefs in spite of the obvious reality that shows all that crap is made up. This guy is just a stupid hypocrite.

[–]2720 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pastor Don Draper

[–]gaiapunk 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

This guy doesn't know what the hell he is talking about at all and if you find yourself agreeing with him I really suggest you take a college-level anthropology class

[–]4long 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

transubstantiation but not transgenderism? whats the medical consensus on god-flesh-wafer, you collared virgin?

[–]Imnimo 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

If gender dysmorphia is merely a perceptual problem, why do transgender people often show brain characteristics of the sex they identify as instead of their chromosomal sex?

The video presents an internally consistent narrative, but unfortunately one that is inconsistent with the evidence.

[–]elmarko44 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Gender is either male or female? Nothing in between?

Ask an anthropologist to demonstrate how many species change sex in single-sex environments, then ask a priest to turn water into wine.

Let me know which one happens first.

[–]scottdog64 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Father Mike! Guys I went to college where Father Mike is the priest and he is awesome! Really passionate and approachable for the students. I actually remember him giving a homily talking about this a couple years ago. Super nice and great guy. Also, athletic and very competitive.

[–]matafubar 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The main question is "What makes someone mentally a woman/man". When a person feels they are transgender, what specifically are they feeling that makes them feel like a man or feel like a woman?

[–]mrfundementalone 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Also, "judgment" and "assessment" are synonymous. Judging isn't necessarily a bad thing, which I think this guy is hoping to avoid by calling his opinions "assessments."

[–]Penguinswin3 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wish my pastor wasn't a 70 year old man.

[–]parentingandvice 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Biases I identified at work while watching this video (my own): - He is handsome, I am more likely to agree with him (so now I have to disagree!) - He is a priest, everything he says will somehow be related to "backwards Christian stuff," I must disagree with him. - He is well spoken and polite, I kind of like this guy (resist!)

Anyway, it was nice to hear someone make a point politely and without bringing up religion (other than wearing a collar). From what I gather, he thinks being transgender is like having a mental disorder, mentions some other, clearly hazardous mental illnesses. Ok, not the worst thing he can think, he seems pretty nice about it.

But then I think, why is he making this video? Is it to tell Catholics to be nicer, is it to make a point that transgender is not an ok mental state? Both?

Who knows. Live and let live is how I see it.

[–]LawrenceDale 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Mr. Man, Thank you for doing this video. I found your point very interesting and thought provoking. Aligning reality and perception is a very hard thing to do. I love the quote, "Be the change you want to see in the world." Seems like that is a quote of a person perceiving reality and wanting to change it. Don't we all perceive reality in different ways? Is that not what has given rise to new trains of thought in social movements, or technology? What is reality but a build up of other peoples preconceptions?

[–]Mentioned_Videos 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

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