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[–]TheMagicPin 416ポイント417ポイント  (168子コメント)

Wow, someone who is arguing against Transgenderism using legitimate arguments, and more importantly isn't seething with hate, but instead compassion. He seems like someone who wouldn't blow up in your face if you actually bring up legitimate counter points to his arguments.

Edit: Just some extra stuff.

[–]Copgra 63ポイント64ポイント  (0子コメント)

Honestly he seems like what the general priest is, at least the one's I've come in contact with

[–]Kordsmeier 23ポイント24ポイント  (15子コメント)

This is how so many catholics really are and why I do feel a sense of hatred toward r/atheism and the things they say about religion and Christians, while grouping Catholics into that. There are all types but for the vast majority, the Catholics I know/met were just like this priest. Full of compassion, love, and reason. In glad this post isn't in the other subreddit because of how things of this nature are treated. I'm not religious or promoting anything, just felt a compulsion to say this after reading what you'd commented.

[–]Jordoom 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm a Catholic who converted from Protestantism (Baptist/non-denom/Evangelical... they're all kinda the same.) I just want to say, Protestants can be nice, too. :)

[–]Kordsmeier 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I didn't mean for it to seem others weren't also this way, just that this video in particular was for/about catholics I guess.

[–]mctuking -2ポイント-1ポイント  (6子コメント)

This is how so many catholics really are and why I do feel a sense of hatred toward r/atheism and the things they say about religion and Christians, while grouping Catholics into that.

Atheist here. I think is /r/atheism is a cesspool of teenagers wanting to feel superior. However this video exactly shows what I think is wrong with religion. He does seem very caring and full of compassion. He's smiling and friendly. He keeps insisting it's a message of love (which frankly doesn't make it so). In a world without religion he wouldn't give a fuck about what made people happy. "Walking with them" or listening to them would not result in him making the title Bruce Jenner, but Caitlyn Jenner. Do you find it weird and silly? Fine. But if you're showing true compassion you do whatever makes people happy when it doesn't cost you anything. It seems he thinks he knows what's better for Caitlyn, than she does herself. How is that listening to people? It's not. It's extremely arrogant and condescending. No amount of soft words and white-teeth smiles can cover that up.

[–]Kordsmeier 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

We are in agreement of r/atheism, of course not everyone is that way but it's obvious what the active majority is.

I think he should also refer to her as Caitlyn. I do think there's something psychologically different about her than the average human. While genetically she's male, mentally she's 'female' by how she has interpreted the gender within our society, we know this because she's said that. There could be some biochemical phenomenon occurring within her or not, I don't know. I do know that it isn't relative to the average person. I think that the priest is informed and validates his opinion and there is something to it. More data is needed, as everything goes in science though. Maybe he should have stated 'this could be the case,' or 'some evidence points to a solvable psychological disorder,' but he didn't. Hard to say what is or isn't happening here, but it's purpose really lies with the simple message at the end, which hopefully everyone walks away with. Religious or not, we should be there for each other more than we are and to be open about what we're feeling in ourselves to people we trust or love. It can save, seriously, a lifetime of potential grief and problems for many people.

[–]mctuking -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

My problem is that he has authority because of something that has nothing to do with understanding these issues. I don't see him as informed. Where's the science backing up the idea that having a walk with Caitlyn is better than allowing her to identify however she wants?

[–]encouragethestorm -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

In a world without religion he wouldn't give a fuck about what made people happy.

But if you're showing true compassion you do whatever makes people happy when it doesn't cost you anything.

I don't think that's the case though. There are so many instances in which showing true compassion oftentimes means denying people what they want—when a parent disciplines their kid, for instance, the kid might throw a fit and be displeased, but the parent knows that the eventual goal of being well-adjusted is worth the kid's temporary displeasure. Acts of true compassion can often be things that make people very uncomfortable, like telling a friend, "you were a real asshole at the party last night."

The fact is that we make judgments all the time about what is right or wrong and ask other people to comply with those judgments against what they claim makes them happy. This does not make someone extremely arrogant or condescending, particularly when those judgments are backed up by knowledge: the parent knows that discipline leads to results, you knew that people made comments about your friend at the party, and this priest has a very logical argument and consequently a well-justified conclusion that arguably constitutes "knowledge." The priest is not arrogant or condescending for taking his logical argument and trying to convince people, through calm and reasoned discourse, of the validity of the argument and the rightness of his conclusions. He could still be wrong, but he's not arrogant.

[–]mctuking -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

the parent knows that the eventual goal of being well-adjusted is worth the kid's temporary displeasure.

I was not talking about temporary happiness. Of course denying someone temporary happiness can be the right thing to do. That's so obvious I didn't know it needed emphasizing. I'm talking about what makes people happy in their lives as a whole.

What Caitlyn has gone through is not a temporary tantrum. Consistently for decades felt a certain way and has finally come out and is happier for it. This priest is saying she's wrong. Going for a walk with him would have been a much better solution. That is extremely arrogant. Messages like that does hurt a lot of people in a group that has suicide rates through the roof. You have to be very, very sure you know what the hell you're talking about before you open your mouth. He has no proper training in the area.

[–]encouragethestorm -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Going for a walk with him would have been a much better solution

"Going for a walk" means listening to their stories, attempting to understand where they're coming from, and giving as much support and love as one can. I think this goes back to Catholicism's theological anthropology, its idea of what the human being is and what he or she most deeply needs: Catholicism insists that the #1 thing that people need is love, and that knowing oneself loved goes a long way to solving many of the doubts, fears and concerns that plague people on an everyday basis. I therefore do not believe the priest is incorrect when he says that a demonstration of love is perhaps an effective solution to psychological distress.

This priest is saying she's wrong.

I don't think the priest means to belittle any of Caitlyn's feelings or suggest that she is not now happy, but he is saying that those feelings were the products of a misguided system that took arbitrary things—gender stereotypes—and established them as objective and universal standards.

[–]mctuking 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Going for a walk" means listening to their stories, attempting to understand where they're coming from, and giving as much support and love as one can.

Obviously.

I therefore do not believe the priest is incorrect when he says that a demonstration of love is perhaps an effective solution to psychological troubles.

If I had a nickle for every time a religious person said something really nasty and then throw in that they love you... It's lipstick on a pig.

I don't think the priest means to belittle any of Caitlyn's feelings

Agreed. I don't think he meant to. I do think he ends up doing that because of religion clouding his judgement.

[–]Spyger -5ポイント-4ポイント  (5子コメント)

full of compassion, love, and reason

.... Maybe not reason. I don't think they make a reasonable "assessment" about their Communion. Pretty sure that if their wine literally became the blood of a man 2000 years dead, it wouldn't taste exactly like wine. And of course, this is merely one example.

I should probably mention that I'm atheistic, and all of my experiences with Catholics have been positive. New Pope is best Pope, btw.

[–]Kordsmeier 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Most of them do follow reason, most I know do even with the big-T traditions of the church. Of course transubstantiation is an odd part of the religion, considering it infers cannibalism. I honestly do not think it should be taught this way but it is or was to me. Anyway, I'm not religious now, though I was raised Catholic. I got a lot out of it and how to be a good person and I still found my own way. I think the church is getting better considering how society is evolving. I still feel negativity toward religion, but there are a lot of great things I wish society could adopt as a whole; I wish the same for religious groups as well though. Thanks for the reply.

[–]patron_vectras 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I do not believe in mathematics - I understand reason.

I believe in transubstantiation - it is a mystery.

[–]Spyger -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, well they used to think lightning bolts were weapons forged and hurled by gods. Droughts were punishments from the gods, and those with mental disorders were possessed by demons.

Everything is a "mystery" until we figure it out. Then it's science.

Of course, transubstantiation isn't even close to being a mystery. It's a bold-faced lie. It's snake oil. Do your rituals, and then test the material. We can examine it at a molecular level, or we can have a child taste test it. The result will be the same. The wine will remain wine every single time. Don't let retards put wool over your eyes, it's embarrassing to the rest of your species.

[–]trolo-joe 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's where Catholics make the classical distinction between accidents and substance friend.

If you'd like to discuss more about the doctrine of transubstantiation feel free to venture over to /r/Catholicism.

[–]Spyger -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'll put that right at the top of my list of "Shit to do to convince myself that humans are bound for extinction."

[–]spaci999 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

What makes this a message of love? The fact that he's cute and talks in a condescending tone? If you actually listen to what he says he's actually saying transgenderism should be treated as nothing but a mental disorder.

[–]cmoncoop 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

transgenderism is by definition a mental disorder.

[–]TheMagicPin -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was simply surprised by his calmness and apparent level headedness. "these are people that are in pain". Nor did I say I agree with his view point.

[–]Deckard_Didnt_Die -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

He wasn't using legit arguments. He had so many logical fallacies, anecdotal evidence, false analogies, and misconceptions. Plus he's a hypocrite. His perception of gender doesn't match up with the reality of gender. How about you force that to change.

[–]Otiac 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

and more importantly isn't seething with hate, but instead compassion.

Where have you seen someone seething with hate on this issue that wasn't on a highlight reel somewhere?

[–]incharge21 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Twitter, Facebook, Reddit. How have you missed it?

[–]archpope 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It didn't take long to find some hate.

[–]nath1234 -4ポイント-3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not really, being mild mannered and presuming to judge (sorry, "assess" he reckons) that gender reassignment surgery isn't necessary or desirable to those people doesn't mean he's making a legitimate argument. At the base of his argument seems to be the idea that a kid pretending to be a dog is a relevant topic for transgenderism.. That transgendered people are just playing or pretending..

[–]REVfoREVer 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

The story of a kid pretending to be a dog wasn't at the base of his argument at all. He said that it's what got him thinking about the topic.

[–]kauneus -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

unfortunately, he may influence the opinions of some people who behave with less outward compassion.

[–]IcingNine 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

As is the case with any valid or invalid argument, of course.

[–]I_Plunder_Booty -4ポイント-3ポイント  (3子コメント)

You say this because he is a priest. I don't like trans people and am horrified how the media enables then and treats them like heroes. There's countless young liberals on reddit who share the view that the liberal media portrays of the transgendered. Everyone now and then some trans glorification spills over into the main subreddits and I'll stumble upon it. I'll refute their facts, submit my own arguments, (all of which are shared by the priest)...and I get the same reaction as if I typed out DIE TRANNY SCUM over and over again with capital letters. Weather well reasoned arguments, with citations to unbiased sources including medical journals, census data, etc... it doesn't matter, if you're posting your opinions on reddit as an anonymous user you might as well be Hitler.

After a while you start to think why bother? So you spew hate filled vitriol because either way it shuts down the tranny poison spilling into the mainstream one leak at a time. There's so many impressionable children on this site that the trannies keep attempting to groom into the next generation of degenerates and it's sickening. It's akin to drug addicts trying to get others into their shit lifestyle so they aren't alone and they don't care how many lives they ruin in the process.

Notice a difference between the tone of the last 2 paragraphs? Bet you didn't, since I was already the enemy after the second sentence and that's the kind of reaction that right vs. left politics has fostered in all of us in the last 2 decades.

[–]TheMagicPin -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm an atheist and don't value the view of a priest because they're a priest.

[–]I_Plunder_Booty 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

You value it more then the opinion of some nameless nobody on the internet.

[–]TheMagicPin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I didn't say that. I simply take it as a personal offense when people assume I value religion.