91
92

Hjernevask (Brainwash) 1/7 - The Gender Equality Paradox (2010) This Norwegian documentary shows how many cornerstones of feminist thinking are lies and anti-scientific (youtube.com)

Macismyname が 投稿

全 142 件のコメント
並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]Xyrxus 28ポイント29ポイント  (21子コメント)

:|

You could've left Feminism out of it. This isn't necessarily apart of Feminism nor does it imply it's discussing it. You should have left it with its original title without your own interpretation.

The documentary is still valuable though.

Edit: Also, by adding your title, you've turned many people away from watching it simple because of their bias. The third wave feminism you are refering to is just a portion of today's total cause and not everyone views the word as representing those specific ideals. By using an all inclusive word, you've possibly attacked and turned away normal & rational people.

[–]chuggingpills [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Except it's about the result of feminist policies in norway's politics and that they are based on lies and unscientific thinking.

[–]Macismyname[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

You are probably right, it was an X post so I stuck with the other title. I does relate to one of the pieces of feminist dogma though. And it is directly about feminism in Norway and the anti scientific nature of some feminist beliefs.

[–]Xyrxus [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Is fine, I no mad. :P

jk, I'll murder you in your sleep.

[–]f9d8hv3sl [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

you've possibly attacked and turned away normal & rational people

Are you sure normal & rational people would feel "attacked" by this?

[–]airportakal [スコア非表示]  (13子コメント)

Ok I haven't watched the movie but I'm gonna throw in my 2 pence anyway: "equal" =/= "the same". Equal refers to equal in worth/rights/treatment, not in (biological) characteristics or so. "Equal" is a normative term, "the same" is a factual term. So all those people attacking feminists with the argument that "women and men are biologically different" should buy a fucking dictionary.

[–]yerFej [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Try watching the movie before you leave comments. The feminists in this video argue against the existence of many proven biological differences.

[–]up48 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Okay, I have talked to Christians who want to burn gay people alive.

All Christians= lunatics?

What about the movie borat, that movie has dumb Americans, all Americans= dumb?

[–]Munchausen-By-Proxy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Some people have different standards for religions (and random people on the streets) than for supposedly academic movements that receive large amounts of government funding.

[–]Superbeastreality [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

Except that you constantly hear supposed feminists saying exactly that.

[–]gotasugardaddy [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

Not enough strawman

[–]Da_Dude_Abides [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Not enough true Scotsmen.

[–]carrayhay [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Nah

[–]LastSoldieratPompeii 17ポイント18ポイント  (19子コメント)

It's always so amusing that the so called "tolerant and enlightened" Left instantly resort to personal attacks and insults. when their views are investigated

I guess it's because it uses FACTS to disprove the modern crap based on FEELINGS

This documentary is so good it cancelled all Govt funding to social science in Norway - hah

[–]Rietendak [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

This documentary is so good it cancelled all Govt funding to social science in Norway - hah

Just to this gender institute. But I guess that's a fact that doesnt match your feels.

[–]Munchausen-By-Proxy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's so cute when feminists try to emulate the arguments used against them. Here's the thing: this guy will accept your correction without complaint, whereas you guys scream "oppreshun! soggyknees!" every time you're shown to be mistaken.

[–]Aixeptional [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

The people from the gender institute are ridiculous though. When the guy (who is a comedian btw) comes back to them with the american studies disproving their ideas and asking what they think of that, they respond with "well nobody really thinks like that" and "although I don't have biological evidence, I have theoretical evidence"

[–]Rietendak [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I like the series quite a bit even if I have some objections.

I just thought it was really annoying that some guy said 'those people are all about FEELS, but my side has FACTS' and then said something blatantly untrue that aligned with his beliefs.

[–]halfAccurateChang [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

"The problem isn't that Johnny can't read. The problem isn't even that Johnny can't think. The problem is that Johnny doesn't know what thinking is; he confuses it with feeling." -Thomas Sowell

[–]VirginWizard69 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I love Thomas Sowell. He is a great antidote to libtardation.

[–]ImADouchebag [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

One can be liberal without being retarded, just as one can be conservative without being evil. It's all about the degrees between moderation and extremism.

[–]arMadizzle [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

As if the right is any different. It's a people thing, not a politics thing.

[–]sickduck22 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This documentary is so good it cancelled all Govt funding to social science in Norway

Source?

[–]shadownukka99 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

TRIGGERED

[–]thymed [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Left

What does left or right have to do with this?

[–]LastSoldieratPompeii [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Modern Left has devolved into something completely alien to the origin of Liberal thought, especially in America and Scandinavia. It's just a simple way of not having to explain about half a dozen political theories

[–]gotasugardaddy [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

This documentary is so good it cancelled all Govt funding to social science in Norway - hah

Did it actually?

[–]LastSoldieratPompeii [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

http://ncfm.org/2013/03/news/feminism-news/nordic-countries-defund-gender-ideology-but-it-survives/

[–]gotasugardaddy [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Oh interesting. Thanks!

I find it surprising how quickly their governments reacted to a documentary. I can't think of anything similar happening here in the USA.

[–]Macismyname[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The Jungle, off the top of my head.

Even though they only fixed the issues with the meat packing industry and ignored the overall point of the book. Which was about the horrible treatment and the exploitation of immigrants in the US.

[–]sickduck22 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

http://ncfm.org/2013/03/news/feminism-news/nordic-countries-defund-gender-ideology-but-it-survives/

wait, you say it cancelled "all govt funding to social science", but that article only talks about defunding gender ideology studies - did I miss something? I'm pretty sure "social science" has more than 1 subcategory.

[–]candleflame3 0ポイント1ポイント  (62子コメント)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkilQ87UUj8

[–]Macismyname[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (20子コメント)

You missed the entire point of the 7 part documentary.

[–]weezhh 0ポイント1ポイント  (19子コメント)

What is the point?

[–]candleflame3 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

A lot of people still don't know that "equal" does not mean "identical".

[–]Macismyname[S] 16ポイント17ポイント  (11子コメント)

It argues that there are gender differences beyond just societal roles. The evolutionary scientists they interviewed can say it better than I can. If you didn't bother to watch it, skip to the 30 minute mark, she says it pretty damn well.

It also shows the complete lack of scientific method or studies to back up the idea that gender roles are nurture and not nature.

Edit: Just wanted to make sure I pointed out that I am pro equality. But I believe in equal opportunity not equal results.

[–]weezhh 8ポイント9ポイント  (10子コメント)

That's helpful thanks. Never believed it was an either/or choice anyway. Have read a lot over the years, and most of the evidence I have seen is that behaviour is pretty much always an outcome of both nature and nurture (whether you are looking at gender differences or any other sort.)

Not sure about the "feminist" challenge though. I am old enough to remember the world before equal pay for equal work was a legal requirement, and when women were expected to stop work when they got married. Legal and economic equality was a massive part of the initial feminist agenda - as were societal changes such as recognising that rape within marriage is still rape and domestic violence is assault.

Think I should probably watch before commenting further though, in case I am going off at a tangent!

[–]redgoldblue 4ポイント5ポイント  (40子コメント)

judith butler

lol. this is not a philosophical question. this is a scientific question. men and women are biologically different and this has been proven over and over and over again. no amount of science hating continental ideological bullshit will change the physical facts.

here is a great book that describes many of those differences. the male and female brains are organized and connected differently which has very real consequences for behavior.

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Gender-Matters-Teachers-Differences/dp/0767916255

[–]shakabusatsu [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Butler in her book Gender Touble is not discussing the sex of individuals (the genetics, body parts), but their social roles. Men can dress up and act like women and visa-versa. An individual man's or woman's behavior can change from very "Manly" to very "Femme" from situation to situation. Butler proposes that most gendered behaviors of modern society are a social construction and not innate to biology or genetics. For Butler "Gender" is very real and has serious consequences even though it is a social construction. In a later book Bodies That Matter she does go into how we perceive the biological differences between male and female is tied up and complicated by the gender performance stuff.

[–]redgoldblue [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

thats the exact thing that the book i posted argues against. he presents empirical evidence which shows that behavior has a large biological component. for example, women and men experience stress and fear differently and thus behave differently becasue of it. this difference is rooted in the physical differences in the nervous systems of men and women. another example, men and women see colors differently due to the the differences in the retina and M and P cells that connect the retina to different parts of the brain.

[–]candleflame3 5ポイント6ポイント  (37子コメント)

What about all the people who don't fit neatly into those categories?

[–]EasternEuropeSlave 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

They're x-men.

[–]Rispudding [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Intersex people are proof that gender is not only nuture. If it was then people would never change their gender. Someone growing up with female genetalia and being treated like a girl because of it would then never identify as a male.

It is because there are differences in the brains of females and males that intersex people exist as they have brains that do not match up with their genetalia or brains that are in between female and male.

[–]BlackestBaron 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you're asking about intersex individuals i would think it would be fair to say they are somewhere in the middle, depending on the hormone balance during development. Although i would be interested to see a study on it.

[–]a-memorable-fancy 4ポイント5ポイント  (7子コメント)

The very large majority of people do fit into those categories. The ones who don't rest easily within the margin of error.

[–]candleflame3 -1ポイント0ポイント  (6子コメント)

They don't "rest easily". People give them shit all the time. It affects their job and housing prospects. They get assaulted and killed.

[–]plastered_pastor 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I am fairly sure by "rest easily" has nothing to do with them being comfortable. Im sure he/she was just saying that the majority of people fit into the basic categories and the ones who do not are in the margin of error.

Or I could be wrong. Edited: to be gender neutral. (because I don't fucking know)

[–]a-memorable-fancy 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly my point. Society is an average. Outliers gonna outlay.

[–]RideTheWingsOfDeath [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

So? I'm short, brown, male and bald and get constant shit for it. No motherfuckers coming to my rescue. Life's a bitch. Then you you die. Why should women have it easier?

[–]Superbeastreality [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Not trying to be an asshole, but what kind of shit do you get? Just trying to see things from someone else's perspective.

[–]doberEars [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Not easier, but equal.

No one should have to be "shit on all the time" for things they can't control under the eyes of the law.

Just because you're also a victim doesn't mean you get to declare that others aren't less victimized by shit. That's crab bucket mentality.

[–]redgoldblue 7ポイント8ポイント  (21子コメント)

what about them? people are born deformed all the time. some people are born without arms and legs, some people are born with cleft lips, some people are born with deformed sex organs, others are born with deformed brains.

their existence does not disprove anything. and considering that transexuals are something like 1 in 30,000 individuals, they are utterly irrelevant to the overall pattern.

[–]DataExMachina [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

and considering that transexuals are something like 1 in 30,000 individuals, they are utterly irrelevant to the overall pattern.

Considering you just made up a stat you could have just as easily looked up, I think I'm just going to move on.

[–]redgoldblue [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

i got it from wikipedia.... it was a study in the netherlands or belgium.

[–]DataExMachina [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

But you can't remember what country the study was conducted in?

[–]soap_on_a_lanyard 5ポイント6ポイント  (17子コメント)

Wait, did you just say transgendered people are mentally deformed?

[–]redgoldblue 10ポイント11ポイント  (9子コメント)

are you saying that they arent? their brains develop abnormally because they receive the incorrect amount of prenatal hormones. why do you think that is some kind of insult? i can say that people born without legs are deformed but i cant say that people born with abnormal brains are? and that is the correct way to deal with the issue, call it what it is. when someone is born without legs we dont try to overthrow society to revolve around their condition. we acknowledge their problem and we employ doctors to help them.

[–]soap_on_a_lanyard 7ポイント8ポイント  (8子コメント)

If someone is born without legs, they can't walk. If someone is born identifying with a different gender, how exactly does that manifest as a deformity? The word "deform" implies that something is not functioning as it should, that there is something wrong with it. It espouses the notion that heteronormative gender identities are "right," and that others are "wrong." If you don't understand why that's not an ok thing to do, then I'm not really sure how to explain it to you.

edit: grammer

[–]RideTheWingsOfDeath -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Heteronormative? Sorry. That's a fucking stupid nonsensical word. I appreciate the challenges t people face but let's not be ridiculous. We're not all brainwashed by liberal insanity.

[–]redgoldblue 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

dude, all you have to do is look at the 41% attempted suicide rate of transexuals to realize that they are not functioning correctly. these are people that literally hate the bodies they live in so much that they try to kill themselves. that is a real problem that deserves real help. trying to explain it away with this postmodern social construction bullshit effectively denies the help they need. If you try to define away a serious medical issue and as a result get people killed, it is damn near criminal.

[–]soap_on_a_lanyard [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah, I guess that the high suicide rate could be that. Or it could be assholes like you passing arbitrary judgement on what is and isn't ok for people to do/think/be, and feeling self-righteously justified in labeling them sick and deformed because of who they are at their core as a person, claiming to represent unbiased fact while perpetuating an abusive and demeaning attitude towards people who have done nothing wrong, and with whom nothing IS wrong. I think that that might be why all the suicides are going on.

[–]gotasugardaddy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

dude, all you have to do is look at the 41% attempted suicide rate of transexuals to realize that they are not functioning correctly.

That same statistic also shows normal or better attempted suicide rates (as in, below the national average) if the person feels they 'pass' as their gender. The problem isn't being transgender. The problem is gender dysphoria, along with some societal issues. Gender dysphoria can be 'fixed' through a number of ways, i.e. HRT, genital reconstruction surgery, facial surgeries, among other things. Its a very well documented issue.

Personally, before I sought HRT I had a miserable life. I'm much better now, even though most of my family hates my guts. I honestly never thought I could be this happy before. This makes me feel that there is absolutely nothing wrong with being transgender, but there is something wrong with having gender dysphoria and it is something that definitely needs to be treated.

[–]Calimariae 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Abnormal is probably a better word in this context.

[–]chinawinsworlds [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

It's not better or worse. They both fit well, though abnormal doesn't make people AS butthurt.

[–]Calimariae [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I'm sure a lot of people regard deformity as something physical though.

[–]SoundBogey 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I was listening to the conversation and you had said that, not him.

[–]soap_on_a_lanyard 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, no, he said it. He reiterated it in his reply.

[–]SoundBogey -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

If he did mean to say it how you take it( remember tone is an important part of reading and writing). Why would it be such a bad thing to say?

[–]fateless115 -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

I ctrl + F'd his comment and I can confirm he did not say that.

[–]soap_on_a_lanyard -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, he did. Please view his reply to my comment.

[–]RideTheWingsOfDeath -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Of course they are.

[–]VirginWizard69 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

There are always exceptions it seems, but to use exceptions to argue a case is to make an argument from extreme cases.

[–]RideTheWingsOfDeath -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

The vast majority do fit into these categories. Genetic freaks are important too but basing policy on them is irrational.

[–]doberEars [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Not including the minorities of a population in your laws is pretty irrational, too.

Tyranny of the Majority is a pretty common phenomenon.

[–]gotasugardaddy [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Being that this is 7 parts, do any of the parts cover transgenderism? I saw a hint of it in the first part, but I don't really have the time at the moment to watch all 7. I'm asking cause I'm trans and I like the style of the documentary

[–]StoryTellingBro [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

IIRC the last part covers it to some extent

[–]Macismyname[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm actually still watching so I couldn't tell you.

[–]Smien [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This is about a conflict between biology and sociology. What shapes a human, ther genes or their enviorment? Anyway this is not legit, Harald Eia is heavily biased towards biology for some reason, and does not bring light on the good arguments from sociology. He got a lot of shit from media as well because the interviews was heavily edited or something something.

[–]Hondoh 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

2 hours & not deleted?...

What happened to reddit?

Edit: oh heh 30 mins, part 1 of 7, AND subtitles... I see....

[–]candleflame3 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Why does it matter what biological differences there are between men and women? Why should that affect equality?

[–]captainfashion [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Gender equality is not the same thing as gender balance.