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[–]die_civ_scum -3ポイント-2ポイント  (52子コメント)

I think advocating luring Uber drivers and beating them is at least as stupid and vile as some of the stuff I see posted from the AnCap subs.

[–]itstimeforcake 6ポイント7ポイント  (51子コメント)

Do you think that kind of dumb shit is representative of most commies, in the same way most libertarians are selfish racist manchildren?

[–]die_civ_scum 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Probably on reddit.

[–]fiftypoints -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ding ding ding.

I don't think redditors of any particular stripe are a very good representation of that group as a whole outside of reddit.

That said, we are on reddit, and on reddit the socialist counter jerk is getting to be just as strong as the libertarian jerk.

It's a frustrating thing to see for those of us in the middle.

[–]SixBiscuitPaid shill of a Ron Paul delegate[M,🍰] -48ポイント-47ポイント  (37子コメント)

Pretty much. Libertarianism and communism are both political ideologies that ignore the reality of the way that humans behave. They see complex problems as simple problems with simple solutions. Both of their proposed solutions are completely unworkable.

[–]itstimeforcake 34ポイント35ポイント  (5子コメント)

Wow well I'm glad we have enlightened liberals who really know what human nature is like.

https://xkcd.com/774/

[–]xkcd_transcriber 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

Image

Title: Atheists

Title-text: 'But you're using that same tactic to try to feel superior to me, too!' 'Sorry, that accusation expires after one use per conversation.'

Comic Explanation

Stats: This comic has been referenced 765 times, representing 1.0963% of referenced xkcds.


xkcd.com | xkcd sub | Problems/Bugs? | Statistics | Stop Replying | Delete

[–]The_Old_Gentleman 14ポイント15ポイント  (8子コメント)

I don't identify as a "Marxist" or "Communist" (despite being pretty far left) but i can safely say my position is backed by a comprehensive understanding of the topic. I could spend days detailing what i find to be disagreeable in Marx's theory of the State and the idea of a "common plan" (and what is agreeable in his analysis of history and society), detailing why the Leninist interpretation of Marx is a particularly flawed philosophy, why i think "Marxism-Leninism" and Maoism to be an incoherent and idealistic mess, what is and isn't valuable in Marxist theories in modern day academia and socio-political movements and in what ways the many different Marxist tendencies differ from each other. There is a reason why Marx is the most influential thinker in the history of the social sciences and it is better to actually know what he was going on about if you are going to agree or disagree with him, and this is what i chose to do, unlike you smug, status quo hegemonic pseudo-"reasonable"-types.

And with this stated, it is clear to everyone here that you have absolutely no clue on what may or may not be the flaws of "communism". I doubt you can cite a single one of the "simple solutions" to "complex problems" that "dem commies" supposedly preach. I doubt you can even accurately explain what "communism" (in the political, theoretical or historical senses of the word) is with out sneaking in a bunch of silly hegemonic ideology with it. If you read a single Anthropology book all of your priors about "how humans behave" would turn to dust. As Emma Goldman pointed out "Every fool, from king to policeman, from the flatheaded parson to the visionless dabbler in science, presumes to speak authoritatively of human nature."

Whatever the ideology of the mod team is, it is pretty damn obvious to everyone that a community dedicated to mocking the most rabidly capitalist ideology ever is going to attract anti-capitalists, and no wonder, us anti-capitalists made up as much as 40% of your userbase for quite a long time and many of the most active and most well-read critics of Libertarianism here are anti-capitalist. And none of this was any problem for this sub in years before you mods decided to throw a fit because someone disagreed with you on Uber and because "oh-hey this sub isn't dripping with hegemonic ideological thought and we don't like this".

This situation is absolutely pathetic, and your attempts to save-face have only embarrassed you further. Please, reconsider your actions if you don't want to be complete fools.

[–]Bosco_Sauce 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

If you read a single Anthropology book all of your priors about "how humans behave" would turn to dust.

Recommendations? (serious request)

Also, I have no idea what is going on, you guys.

[–]The_Old_Gentleman 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

Marcel Mauss's The Gift is a classic of the field. His analysis of how "primitive" societies are based on reciprocal gift-exchanges is completely counter-intuitive to people who are only accustomed to living under Capitalism, where the logic of commodity exchange is the norm.

David Graeber's Debt: The First 5000 Years is a very broad book that touches on many, many topics but also shatters many myths about "how people behave" by discussing the different ways that different societies have engaged with the concepts of "debt" and reciprocity over a period of 5000 years. Graeber analyses social relations from the POV of three competing moral principles: "Communism", "exchange" and "authority"; and argues that the three principles present themselves to different degrees and interact with one another in different ways in pretty much all societies. His point about how many social relations in the capitalist world are already "communal" (such as for example, raising a family, co-workers sharing resources to get the job done, etc) and how it is outright bizarre or even offensive when people try do away with this "baseline communism" is particularly eye-opening.

James C. Scott's The Moral Economy of the Peasant: Rebellion and Subsistence in Southeast Asia is an analysis of peasant life and rebellion in, uh, Southeast Asia. He point that in these societies life is predicated on the fact that starvation is the worst case scenario, so the social order is built around minimizing social risk for everybody and establishing long-standing ties of reciprocity and reliability rather than "profit-maximization" or competitiveness, and that attempts to impose a logic of "profit-maximization" or market-based insecurities upon these societies has led to catastrophic failure and severe resistance (even when they supposedly increase the income of the peasants, they lead to social polarization, class struggles and social instability/conflict). He points that the poverty in many peasant societies in the world today does not come from their "failure to develop" but by the contrary comes from the attempt to forcefully "develop" them by integrating them into the global world market.

Though not an anthropology book Elinor Ostrom's book Governing the Commons: The Evolution of Institutions for Collective Action is an analysis of how many societies have sucessfully self-organised to exploit and maintain common resources on a self-sustaining and mutually beneficial basis, and what is the basis in game theory for how these projects succeeded. It shatters many myths about "how humans behave" by showing that people can work together to maintain a common resource (contrary to ideas like "the tragedy of the commons") if they are given an adequate framework to do so.

If you know any person who is prone to making blanket statements about "how humans behave" or about "human nature" that are based on how we behave under Capitalism, show them any of these books and it will be an eye-opening read unless they completely fail to throughly engage with the work.

[–]Bosco_Sauce 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Way more detailed than I expected. Thank-you! I actually already have Debt, so I'll start there. I've read bits and pieces of Ostrom, and usually cite Hardin himself on his own reflections about the tragedy of the commons being a management issue not unique to socialist systems.

If you know any person who is prone to making blanket statements about "how humans behave" or about "human nature" that are based on how we behave under Capitalism

It's like...number 2 in the "defense of capitalism" apologist handbook. ;)

[–]The_Old_Gentleman 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

The naturalization of Capitalism is and has always been the number 1 tool for it's apologists. "That's just the way things are!" is the bedrock of all ideology.

[–]Bosco_Sauce 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

This, combined with part of your summary of The Moral Economy

He points that the poverty in many peasant societies in the world today does not come from their "failure to develop" but by the contrary comes from the attempt to forcefully "develop" them by integrating them into the global world market.

reminds me of a quote by Krishnamurti put at the beginning of one of the chapters in The Spirit Level.

"It is no measure of health and well-being to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

Not to say definitively that being well adjusted to the status-quo is necessarily bad or that the status-quo as a whole is necessarily bad. I just think it's a great quote that highlights the need to empirically question the status-quo. How else would you know it is working?

[–]TheYetiCaptain1993 13ポイント14ポイント  (7子コメント)

edit: not even going to bother