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Pride Flags at MLS Games (self.MLS)
Syracuse Salty DogsFauxPsych が 7時間 前 * 投稿
残りのコメントをみる →
[–]New York Red BullsLomoSaltado 21ポイント22ポイント23ポイント 6時間 前* (32子コメント)
My personal opinion is "Whats the Big Deal?"
But for the purposes of discussion ... I believe one of the strengths of MLS is that its "new" in the sports landscape of this country and in the soccer world in general.
I believe its great that MLS as a whole has been inclusive of communities that were traditionally marginalized in sports from the get go. This is one of the unique strengths of this league and its late arrival on the sports scene. The league was not hamstrung by old attitudes and could embrace whoever felt like watching.
The league as a whole has made equality a stated goal and core tenet so the pride flag's presence is in line with that.
[+]Grand Rapids FCrsl20 スコアが基準値未満のコメント-20ポイント-19ポイント-18ポイント 6時間 前 (31子コメント)
Coming from your last paragraph of equality, I then should be able to bring in a "straight pride" flag? (I have no idea if that's an actual thing, but if equality means equal then it should be allowed?)
[–]New York Red BullsLomoSaltado 13ポイント14ポイント15ポイント 5時間 前* (0子コメント)
The word equality is in there but we aren't talking about equality in flag waving. That's protected by your first amendment right and if you wanted to wave a straight pride flag go right ahead. The FO may not want you to wave it in the SG area and they have the right to remove you for violating their rules.
Ultimately the pride flag is the recognized symbol of the LGBTQ Rights movement and the league as a whole has aligned itself with this movement to the point where the teams have added it to their logo for pride nights and even to their captains arm band on occasion.
As someone else pointed out. Its an accepted position of the league and as such waving it in the supporters section is tantamount to shouting "DON'T CROSS THE LINE" or "GIVE RACISM A RED" . In this context the "straight pride flag" does not pass this test and could be considered "political" and outside the message the club wants to portray. Additionally it would seem that such a flag would only exist to provoke people (another poster in this thread basically said that he just wanted "to see what people would say") at best there really would be no clear political meaning or "movement" and worst it would be there only to provoke a negative response.
EDIT: Added some lines at the end.
[–]New England RevolutionxDCWx 41ポイント42ポイント43ポイント 6時間 前 (29子コメント)
Holy moly. Alright, I won't downvote you because this is a good teaching moment. There doesn't need to be a straight pride flag because the rights of straight people aren't being infringed. I don't need to go out and advocate for my right as a straight person to be treated equally under the law and by society in general.
[+]moxthebox スコアが基準値未満のコメント-12ポイント-11ポイント-10ポイント 5時間 前 (4子コメント)
There doesn't need to be a straight pride flag because the rights of straight people aren't being infringed.
Wait am I only allowed to have a pride flag if my rights are being infringed? I missed that rule.
[–]Seattle SoundersYOULOVETHESOUNDERS 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 5時間 前 (3子コメント)
Prettty sure /u/xDCWx didn't say that at all....
[+]moxthebox スコアが基準値未満のコメント-12ポイント-11ポイント-10ポイント 5時間 前 (2子コメント)
Well that's pretty much what this pointless conversation comes down to
[–]Portland Timbersleo_eris 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 5時間 前 (1子コメント)
No.
[+]moxthebox スコアが基準値未満のコメント-6ポイント-5ポイント-4ポイント 3時間 前 (0子コメント)
Good talk
[+]Grand Rapids FCrsl20 スコアが基準値未満のコメント-12ポイント-11ポイント-10ポイント 6時間 前* (23子コメント)
That's fine and I think everyone understands that (at least I hope) That wasn't my point though. If there was a straight pride flag (which I'm sure there is one out there) it should be able to brought to games because of equality. Now how would that go over in this sub? People would be really upset I'd believe.
[–]New England RevolutionxDCWx 28ポイント29ポイント30ポイント 5時間 前 (15子コメント)
This is false equivalence and its clear that you don't understand what you're talking about.
[+]Grand Rapids FCrsl20 スコアが基準値未満のコメント-16ポイント-15ポイント-14ポイント 5時間 前 (14子コメント)
Are you ignoring the definition of equality?
Equality- the state of being equal, especially in status, rights, and opportunities.
Everyone understands that the LGBT community are not treated as equals. That's not a question. But the fact that they can use a soccer game to show their pride and deny straights to do the same is also not equal. It has nothing to do with outside of the match. Strictly speaking of the game and having the same opportunity, if someone wanted, they should be able to bring a straight pride flag in without problem.
[–]Colorado Rapids13monsters 26ポイント27ポイント28ポイント 5時間 前* (13子コメント)
the fact that they can use a soccer game to show their pride and deny straights to do the same is also not equal.
No one is denying anyone that ability. Just know that you'd look like a stupid asshole doing it.
[+]Grand Rapids FCrsl20 スコアが基準値未満のコメント-15ポイント-14ポイント-13ポイント 5時間 前 (12子コメント)
I can almost guarantee that if someone took a huge straight pride flag to the Timbers Army it would be taken down, or asked to take it down and that would never happen to a pride flag. I understand the whole looking like an asshole part too. I'm not suggesting anyone do it.
[–]Colorado Rapids13monsters 21ポイント22ポイント23ポイント 5時間 前 (5子コメント)
I just feel like the only people who would be taking a straight pride flag into a game are trying to convey some kind of aggression towards gays, but the gay pride is purely about being welcoming to more people.
[+]Grand Rapids FCrsl20 スコアが基準値未満のコメント-14ポイント-13ポイント-12ポイント 5時間 前 (4子コメント)
I can completely see that. I'm proud to be straight, but is there any reason for me to bring a flag to a soccer match and celebrate it? As much as the gay pride flag is about welcoming people so could my straight pride flag. I just see no reason to have either at a match.
[–]Vancouver Whitecapssaghalie 11ポイント12ポイント13ポイント 5時間 前 (4子コメント)
just as a white pride flag would also be taken down.
[+]Grand Rapids FCrsl20 スコアが基準値未満のコメント-9ポイント-8ポイント-7ポイント 5時間 前 (3子コメント)
That's a bit different because nobody is letting in a Black Panthers or ISIS flag either.
[–]Portland TimbersButtRubbinz 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 4時間 前 (0子コメント)
You're right. The TA proudly waves pride flags, has had Tifo in support of gay rights, and loves our gay supporters. We're not assholes.
However, if you specifically tried to go make a flag (a flag which doesn't exist, by the way) to force an argument about equality in flag waving, and try to straight up cause an argument while we support our boys? Yeah, you'd get booted. Because that's being petty.
[–]New England Revolutionasaharyev 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 5時間 前 (6子コメント)
I think the important idea here is actually equity as opposed to equality. Is it equitable to bring a "straight pride" flag to your supporters section? Does it help to grant equal access to all in the stands? I don't think many have been marginalized for their identity as a straight person, so by bringing a "straight pride" flag would not serve to empower a disempowered group, but instead would further marginalize an already disenfranchised group. To bring an LGBT pride flag (which actually includes straight identity, btw), is an equitable act which strives for equality in society. To bring a "straight pride" flag would be an oppressive act, although equal in action, which seeks to maintain a status quo that discriminates on the basis of sexual orientation.
[+]Grand Rapids FCrsl20 スコアが基準値未満のコメント-7ポイント-6ポイント-5ポイント 5時間 前 (5子コメント)
Who says it has to be an oppressive flag though? Someone could claim it's just their pride in bring straight and had nothing to do with people of different sexual orientation. I feel like we don't need it in our matches. Bring a flag of your team and support your team instead. I don't see a reason to bring up these issues during games.
[–]New England Revolutionasaharyev 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 5時間 前* (4子コメント)
That's like saying a white pride flag wouldn't be oppressive. You're further reinforcing an unequal and prejudiced status quo, thereby supporting the oppression of others.
EDIT: Furthermore, the rainbow flag represents all gender identities and sexual orientations, so it is already a straight pride flag. As well as a gay pride, bi pride, trans pride, cis pride, etc.
[+]Grand Rapids FCrsl20 スコアが基準値未満のコメント-9ポイント-8ポイント-7ポイント 4時間 前 (3子コメント)
Why does a white pride flag always have to be oppressive? You could be proud to be Pacific Islander and nobody would say they are being oppressive.
[–]Seattle SoundersWonderboyYYZ 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 3時間 前 (2子コメント)
Asking this question is disingenuous to the hundreds of years of history of white oppression. Read a book, this stuff becomes pretty obvious.
[+]Grand Rapids FCrsl20 スコアが基準値未満のコメント-6ポイント-5ポイント-4ポイント 3時間 前* (1子コメント)
So a Black pride flag is bad because their ancestors also owned slaves?
π Rendered by PID 19616 on app-23 at 2015-06-28 20:52:29.463466+00:00 running 54ff980 country code: JP.
残りのコメントをみる →
[–]New York Red BullsLomoSaltado 21ポイント22ポイント23ポイント (32子コメント)
[+]Grand Rapids FCrsl20 スコアが基準値未満のコメント-20ポイント-19ポイント-18ポイント (31子コメント)
[–]New York Red BullsLomoSaltado 13ポイント14ポイント15ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]New England RevolutionxDCWx 41ポイント42ポイント43ポイント (29子コメント)
[+]moxthebox スコアが基準値未満のコメント-12ポイント-11ポイント-10ポイント (4子コメント)
[–]Seattle SoundersYOULOVETHESOUNDERS 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント (3子コメント)
[+]moxthebox スコアが基準値未満のコメント-12ポイント-11ポイント-10ポイント (2子コメント)
[–]Portland Timbersleo_eris 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント (1子コメント)
[+]moxthebox スコアが基準値未満のコメント-6ポイント-5ポイント-4ポイント (0子コメント)
[+]Grand Rapids FCrsl20 スコアが基準値未満のコメント-12ポイント-11ポイント-10ポイント (23子コメント)
[–]New England RevolutionxDCWx 28ポイント29ポイント30ポイント (15子コメント)
[+]Grand Rapids FCrsl20 スコアが基準値未満のコメント-16ポイント-15ポイント-14ポイント (14子コメント)
[–]Colorado Rapids13monsters 26ポイント27ポイント28ポイント (13子コメント)
[+]Grand Rapids FCrsl20 スコアが基準値未満のコメント-15ポイント-14ポイント-13ポイント (12子コメント)
[–]Colorado Rapids13monsters 21ポイント22ポイント23ポイント (5子コメント)
[+]Grand Rapids FCrsl20 スコアが基準値未満のコメント-14ポイント-13ポイント-12ポイント (4子コメント)
[–]Vancouver Whitecapssaghalie 11ポイント12ポイント13ポイント (4子コメント)
[+]Grand Rapids FCrsl20 スコアが基準値未満のコメント-9ポイント-8ポイント-7ポイント (3子コメント)
[–]Portland TimbersButtRubbinz 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]New England Revolutionasaharyev 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント (6子コメント)
[+]Grand Rapids FCrsl20 スコアが基準値未満のコメント-7ポイント-6ポイント-5ポイント (5子コメント)
[–]New England Revolutionasaharyev 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント (4子コメント)
[+]Grand Rapids FCrsl20 スコアが基準値未満のコメント-9ポイント-8ポイント-7ポイント (3子コメント)
[–]Seattle SoundersWonderboyYYZ 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (2子コメント)
[+]Grand Rapids FCrsl20 スコアが基準値未満のコメント-6ポイント-5ポイント-4ポイント (1子コメント)