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Pardon Ross Ulbricht (change.org)

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トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]iamtheboogyman 34ポイント35ポイント  (21子コメント)

do these petitions actually ever do anything?

[–]Vibr8gKiwi 63ポイント64ポイント  (8子コメント)

They give people a false sense of hope and participation in the system. That is useful as it keeps them from doing anything that might actually change things.

[–]Sovereign_Curtis 29ポイント30ポイント  (1子コメント)

They also supply Change.org with a never ending stream of email addresses to sell to spammers.

[–]rastanikoten 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

And may serve as a useful list of people (i.e. "dope heads" or "gun nuts") for Big Brother to watch more closely... Especially around election time. Politicians need to have victims to prove their effectiveness and they just cant get away with race or sexual orientation anymore. Recreational drugs users are a target of convenience. How shameful is it to ruin an addicts life by offering the force of violence and imprisonment rather than safety and relief.

[–]everyone_wins 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

That is useful as it keeps them from doing anything that might actually change things.

Like what, some Fight Club type domestic terrorism or what? I'm genuinely curious what I could be doing better to get the Feds to ease up on their bullshit.

[–]Vibr8gKiwi 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

https://represent.us/

Also need to get congressional voting secret again like it was pre-1970.

[–]leram84 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

that is an effort to stop corruption. The issue with the war on drugs is completely different, and rooted in the fact that a large number of americans are misguided and deluded enough to believe the war on drugs is actually a good thing. Status quo bias

[–]targetpro 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Many Americans believe enough is enough on the "war" on drugs. But it seems their voices aren't heard in Washington.

[–]KayRice 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well said.

[–]hellobitcoinworld 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

They give people a false sense of hope and participation in the system.

I think Vibr8gKiwi is right

But if nothing else, I feel this petition at least helps raise more awareness of the general population of the corruption of our government. And that movement (a slow and steady one) is still evolving. The movement toward more freedom, and less government.

[–]sajber 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm naive enough to try it...again :P

[–]earthmoonsun 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yes, they do. Most cases might not, and I doubt that this one has a chance.
However, there are cases that made some people/governments/corporations decide it's not worth the negative attention that our original decision might cause.
All petition websites have success cases listed on their pages.

[–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]Rawlsdeep 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Nope. You are just giving your email address to known spammers (change.com is one of the worst).

    [–]violencequalsbad 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    you can turn off notifications easily. it's better than sites like ebay. tell people not to use that.

    [–]violencequalsbad 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    they are one of many things that will do nothing on their own, but will work collectively.

    [–]sovereignlife 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    They may not do anything, but I've signed anyway - just as a way of registering my disgust with governments and their power plays.

    コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

      [–]evoorhees 17ポイント18ポイント  (6子コメント)

      Average sentence for rape is 8 years.

      [–]BeefSupreme2 23ポイント24ポイント  (27子コメント)

      Nope. He's to serve some time. 5 years would have been about right.

      But life? DAMN

      [–]AdamBLevine 17ポイント18ポイント  (11子コメント)

      I don't support what Ross did but the sentencing in this case is unfathomable. Sentencing should be on the basis of the charges the individual is CONVICTED of, not unproven allegations that are casually mentioned but not charged or tried.

      Justice is supposed to be blind, the federal justice system turned Ross from a low level criminal into a martyr of a politicized judge.

      [–]notreddingit 1ポイント2ポイント  (10子コメント)

      But the continuing criminal enterprise charge is actually supposed to take those hits in to consideration. That was the big charge and that's why she gave him life.

      I do think that life is too harsh, even considering the hits on five people. But it's not too surprising given the evidence.

      [–]AdamBLevine 5ポイント6ポイント  (9子コメント)

      There is a burden of proof that needs to be met, innocent until proven guilty remember?

      How can something be taken into consideration for sentencing if he hasn't been tried or convicted of it?

      Where exactly was he proven guilty of the charges that were used to justify his sentence?

      [–]fancyparking 5ポイント6ポイント  (7子コメント)

      Thank you. I'm sick and tired of the murder charges being brought up again and again and again and stated as fact. They were not charged, and not proven. Two of them were for fictitious people. The only one that may have some merit is the Maryland indictment, but even that's been standing for more than a year now, and is tainted by rogue agents of whom Dratel could claim entrapment. It's interesting how people just take this court case at face value and don't realize the amount of the prosecution's own information that the defense could not bring up at trial, for example cirrus's ability as an admin to work behind the scenes,

      [–]AdamBLevine 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Cognitive dissonance is a bastard, catches up to all of us eventually in this crazy world.

      [–]Spats_McGee 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

      They were not charged, and not proven.

      Not in a court of law, no. But as an anarchist that's somewhat irrelevant to me personally. The evidence is the evidence, which was taken from his very laptop as he was logged into SR as DPR.

      Two of them were for fictitious people.

      If you push to the button to have someone you think is real killed and/or tortured, you're a murderer and/or torturer.

      entrapment

      Seriously? According to the logs he initiated the talk of "hits" himself! The gov't pulls plenty of these entrapment shenanigans with various "terrorist" plots they "uncover," but this isn't one of them.

      [–]magrathea1 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Not in a court of law, no. But as an anarchist that's somewhat irrelevant to me personally. The evidence is the evidence, which was taken from his very laptop as he was logged into SR as DPR.

      you claim to be an anarchist, yet you swallow whatever bullshit the government puts in front of you? an anarchist would be opposed the this entire kangaroo court.

      [–]Spats_McGee 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

      you claim to be an anarchist, yet you swallow whatever bullshit the government puts in front of you?

      Yeah and I also obey red lights at crowded intersections and believe NOAA when they say that a hurricane is coming. Anarchist =! believing in every conspiracy theory Alex Jones can dream up.

      Until I see real evidence that the government faked the chatlogs I'm not just going to assume they did, as much as I might like to.

      [–]MistakeNotDotDotDot 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      You're just a shill for Big Not-Getting-Hit-In-An-Intersection. :/

      [–]magrathea1 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      yeah! because the feds had no interest in smearing his character... they had such reliable evidence that their own agents are going to jail... such reliable evidence that it couldn't be charged by their own rules in their own courts... but accept it as gospel, real anarchist! keep on supporting the state

      [–]targetpro 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      For all we know the evidence for the hits could have been fabricated by the officers from the get go. Certainly it would help seal the deal on the drug charges. And the officers already demonstrated an appreciable disregard for the law by that time in the case.

      [–]notreddingit 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

      There is a burden of proof that needs to be met, innocent until proven guilty remember?

      That's the legal concept yeah, but on a personal level one can look at the evidence and make their own conclusion.

      How can something be taken into consideration for sentencing if he hasn't been tried or convicted of it?

      If the evidence is presented and the jury finds someone guilty of this specific charge then it seems the law allows the judge to consider the evidence and sentence based on what they are convinced happened. The judge said during sentencing that she was certain that Ross ordered the murders, and I guess given that she chose the sentence based on these guidelines: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/21/848

      I think it would been better if they had included the murder charges though, but it seems they use this law as a sort of catch all for people that are able to get charged with it.

      I do think life is too harsh in this case. Although it also sounds like she could have given him the death penalty according to the law there, not sure.

      [–]dellintelbitcoin 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

      What do you hope to achive with the jail sentences?

      [–]sajber 2ポイント3ポイント  (8子コメント)

      2 x life + 15 years + 20 years + 5 years. - http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/may/29/silk-road-ross-ulbricht-sentenced

      [–]bitcoinfan87 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

      Help me...I live in Canada... What is life in the US? and does it run concurrent? What's his total number of years in jail without chance of parole?

      [–]metamirror 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

      Life without parole

      [–]bitcoinfan87 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

      that didn't answer my question...

      [–]metamirror 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

      He will die in prison unless he escapes, is pardoned by the President, or is successful in appealing the verdict.

      [–]GrapeNehiSoda 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Seems unlikely. Some crusaders will continue to push to get him out and in 20 years the political climate will change, he'll be set free to write books and movies about the whole ordeal.

      [–]bitcoinfan87 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      oh wow - always thought for some reason 'life' had a time limit like 25 years or something. Crazy long time for someone who's 30...

      [–]fancyparking 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

      From what I hear, life in Federal court means the rest of your life. Also, since it's federal, there's no chance of parole. Hence, he will never see the world outside of bars except for metamirror's explanation.

      [–]coinlock 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

      The mandatory minimum under drug sentencing laws was 20.

      [–]PoliticalDissidents 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      I've read both 20 and 30 years minimum for him. It's it actually 20?

      [–]puckfirate 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I agree

      コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

        [–]Jdlwjdhskyk 7ポイント8ポイント  (6子コメント)

        LETTER TO President Barack Obama Senator Rand Paul

        Haha hilarious, best part. Rand Paul, 2nd most powerful man in America.

        [–]Fatty-Kin 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

        Yeah like what's with the random senator? Why wasn't the second person the U.S. Attorney General or something?

        [–]PoliticalDissidents 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Posters probably dreaming of Rand Paul 2016.

        Unless they're just hoping for a filibuster on drugs.

        [–]ericools 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I don't think it's so much Random so much as that he's a prominent presidential candidate and the possibility that he might actually give a crap. He won't of course even if he does he's not going to say it publicly. It will be about as effective as asking Obama.

        [–]polychenko 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

        why do republicans have such short names? Rand Paul, Mitt Romney, Ron Paul,

        [–]mikeyouse 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Because they're politicians and some focus group somewhere told them they'd do better if their names could fit on a pin..

        Rand Paul is really Randal Howard Paul

        Mitt Romney is really Willard Mitt Romney

        Ron Paul is really Ronald Ernest Paul

        [–]PoliticalDissidents 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

        White people?

        [–]utuxia 19ポイント20ポイント  (57子コメント)

        I just watched the movie "Deep Web" and was a little surprised when they discussed their defense about the possibility of a 2nd or 3rd DPR who framed him, they didn't explain why Ross was caught red handed with all that incriminating evidence on his laptop....if he supposedly "wasn't involved anymore"...what was he doing logging in to the SR admin interface from a library and the entire history + journal of his adventures running SR on the laptop?

        They claim in the movie "He was framed, that evidence was planted there..." but I find it hard to believe how that would even be possible.

        [–]notreddingit 14ポイント15ポイント  (56子コメント)

        If they admitted that Ross started SR, and we know that he has been recording everything in his journal, and if he supposedly handed over SR to another DPR, why would there be no mention or indication of this at all?

        What are they even implying exactly? That another DPR was the person using his own personal laptop and that they were the one who ordered all the hits?

        If another person was supposedly DPR(Mark Karpeles? LOL), did Ross hand off SR's nine figure USD bitcoin wallet? Was it sent to someone else at some point? Wouldn't they point that out?

        Why were the chat logs and interpersonal relationships with people involved with SR so consistent over time? How could something as large as the passing of something on track to be a billion dollar operation have not a single discussion or mention?

        Why did things recorded in Ross' journal line up with things happening in his life?

        How is it possible people are so delusional? This level of mental gymnastics seems on par with religious fundamentalists. I can't remember the last time I saw such a large amount of blatant intellectual dishonesty.

        [–]Monkeyavelli 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

        The government built a robot duplicate of Ulbricht to pin their crimes on!

        Wake up, sheeple!

        [–]utuxia 8ポイント9ポイント  (49子コメント)

        Yeah. It was a shitty defense. their best chance was to reveal how the FBI found the server and find out if his 4th amendment rights had been violated, but the judge threw that out. So they had to resort to blaming someone else. I don't believe any of it.

        [–]itisike 6ポイント7ポイント  (18子コメント)

        The judge threw it out because he refused to claim a privacy interest in the server, which could not be used against him in court.

        [–]Phrenico 4ポイント5ポイント  (15子コメント)

        Thus, by finding him guilty they demonstrate that they violated his privacy.

        [–]itisike 4ポイント5ポイント  (14子コメント)

        Actually no. The government claimed that they found the server legally. Ross challenged that, but refused to claim a personal interest in the server, so that was never ruled on. So as far as we know, it's possible it would have been ruled legal anyway.

        (I think the government's argument was at least partially plausible; basically that it was outside the US, and handed over to a third party in violation of said party's ToS, and therefore didn't have 4th amendment rights.)

        [–]Phrenico 1ポイント2ポイント  (13子コメント)

        basically that it was outside the US, and handed over to a third party in violation of said party's ToS

        But to know that it violated the party's ToS, they'd have to have some reasonable suspicion (or whatever the nomenclature is). So this does boil down to the Constitutional question of how you forfeit your 4A rights.

        The third party doctrine is pretty laughable, but apparently is the way the law is applied.

        [–]itisike 0ポイント1ポイント  (12子コメント)

        But to know that it violated the party's ToS, they'd have to have some reasonable suspicion (or whatever the nomenclature is).

        They had freaking reasonable suspicion, it said on the site it sold drugs! (Technically they didn't know it was a third party until after they found it, so it may have been legal, but they couldn't have known until afterwards. So it would have been illegal (possibly) if it had been on his own server in the US. Whether that's valid is an interesting question, but I don't know if there's precedent.)

        [–]Phrenico 0ポイント1ポイント  (11子コメント)

        They had freaking reasonable suspicion, it said on the site it sold drugs!

        The fact that an illegal site exists doesn't mean that every server in the galaxy is suspicious of hosting it.

        [–]itisike 0ポイント1ポイント  (10子コメント)

        Yes, but they didn't search every server, only the server SR was on.

        [–]notreddingit 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Which was a bit odd since they admitted that he was the one who created Silk Road.

        He really should have just taken a plea bargain if it was offered. I hope it wasn't Dratel who had the idea of fighting it in court.

        [–]itisike 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        They didn't admit it until the trial.

        I've seen a theory that Dratel didn't want to admit it until he had to, because that would reduce public support for Ross, which was paying his bills.

        [–]coinlock 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

        The defense was pretty bad. They were denied a lot of relevant information though, and certain facts came to light after. I think he can use those to his advantage in an appeal. Its hard to defend something that is true though and has copious documented evidence that the defendant made himself. Ross took responsibility for running SR after he was convicted, all of the evidence points his way. Coming up with a creative defense to combat the reality isn't easy.

        [–]Badrush 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

        Aren't appeals just another judge reading the script of the first trial? I'm not sure if they can introduce new evidence or even go back to court during the appeal. (Depends on the country I guess)

        [–]coinlock 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

        No, they can introduce new evidence. There were several pieces that were exempted or not introduced in the first trial that can be entered into evidence in the second, and there is a good case for trying to introduce new facts such as the police corruption. At the very least that may expunge certain details from the record that would give Ross a better shot.

        [–]Badrush 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

        I googled it and the following came up from the American Bar website...

        An appeal is not a retrial or a new trial of the case. The appeals courts do not usually consider new witnesses or new evidence. Appeals in either civil or criminal cases are usually based on arguments that there were errors in the trial's procedure or errors in the judge's interpretation of the law.

        It's not definitive but still unlikely that new evidence would be allowed.

        [–]coinlock 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I am specifically referencing statements by the Judge during sentencing, that referred to trial information that could now be used as evidence. I don't have the links, but it seemed to leave the possibility open that new evidence would be admitted.

        [–]lucasjkr 0ポイント1ポイント  (24子コメント)

        She didn't throw out that argument. She just pointed out that in order to claim a privacy interest in the server, which would mean he'd have to claim ownership of it. None of that would be known to the jury, so there wasn't a real downside. She actually seemed surprised that he didn't attempt to make that argument.

        [–]walloon5 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

        Logic doesnt have to enter into s legal defense. You can have multiple defenses which are logically inconsistent

        [–]Spats_McGee 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

        Of course you can, but will the jury buy it?

        [–]targetpro 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        They will, on occasion, agree with one argument and not the other.

        [–]walloon5 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Maybe :)

        I think you have to convince the jury that your tactics, while strange, are standard.

        And you have to convince them that if you were their lawyer you would be just a strong and wily

        [–]fancyparking 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

        It's a Catch 22: Does he claim ownership of the servers and thus claim himself as guilty (contrary to his plead of not guilty), or does he claim no ownership of the servers, and thus cannot evoke his 4th Amendment right of unreasonable searches and seizures? Notice, we still have no plausible explanation on how the government got access to the servers. Frankly, if they were legal about it, how would it be in their best interest to lie and keep this information hidden?

        [–]lucasjkr 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

        Kind of. He could have claimed ownership in order to claim his privacy interest, so while judge and prosecutors would "know", it couldn't have been disclosed to the jury unless he himself took the stand.

        Instead, what, knowing the mountain of evidence the Feds had by virtue of his snatched laptop, he Denies the server and embarks on a "I created Silk Road, but sold it after a few months" strategy?

        Tldr:no catch-21. He could have claimed his privacy interest with zero negative repercussions for having tried that route, even if it failed.

        [–]fancyparking 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

        Maybe. The judge's actions in the entire case makes me seriously doubt any of that would have actually happened.

        [–]lucasjkr 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

        Still, he didn't even try. Can't complain about rights being trampled if you don't try to protect them

        [–]fancyparking 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

        That's a very unfair statement. With all of the evidence the prosecution asked the judge to bar, and everything dismissed by the judge, they DID try. The judge even refused to take into admission evidence the prosecution gave the defense in discovery because it might have jeopardized the investigation of Force and Bridges.

        [–]lucasjkr 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

        Force and bridges' evidence wasn't in the trial (it's all part of the Maryland case, this was the New York case). It'd be one thing if the prosecution could use Maryland evidence and the defense couldn't, but no one used it.

        コメントをもっと表示する (12 返事)

          [–]PoliticalDissidents 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

          It's pretty clear that Ross was involved and started it. Really anyone could of suspected that from that start. What led them to him was that he made mention of Silkroad on Shroomery with the user name Altoid. Then made posts on Bitcoin talk under the same name one of which contained his email (RossUlbricht@gmail.com). Then the stackexchange posts. Really who DPR was was right there on the clear net in plain site not a single warrant or violation of constitution in order to obtain this. Supposedly DPR even made a post on the silkroad forums when asked about how he promoted it on Shroomery. Then really once he was suspect his OPSEC screwed him even more so.

          So yeah Ross was DPR. The defences saying he was framed by the real DPR seemed like "Fuck it we're loosing this already and got nothing left" attempt. Going ahead however with the possibilities of multiple DPRs at the same time however and using the prosecutions own witness to interject doubt and the possibility of multiple DPRs is smart. But the judge wasn't in their favour to the slightest. Given the anonymous nature of TOR you can't prove that all actions that are done under the persona of DPR are indeed Ross. It's very well possible that you could have Ross saying one thing and Karpels the other. So interjecting reasonable doubt here is what's important and that is enough to at least make the jury question if all things DPR did were indeed Ross. However when you have a judge that says no expert testimony is needed as to how TOR and Bitcoin works (when it's a case about FUCKING BITCOIN AND TOR!) kills the jury's understanding that who DPR was isn't certain. Especially when the FBI it's self had doubt.

          As for the murder things well in the case he was just convicted he wasn't ever changed for murder they were all dropped. There is only one count of murder that he was charged for and that's in the ongoing (maybe never we be heard) case in Maryland. If I recall correctly though the corrupt DEA agents were the ones involved in this case. So this brings into question the entire integrity of that that case. You would think PGP would be used for such communications. If so then how do you get the chat logs? You rely on the under cover cop on the other side. But if you know these cops are corrupt and may have hacked the servers now you can't rely on the integrity of that information at all and it may very well also not have been true.

          [–]targetpro 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

          Agreed. Also, it was a very poor defense on the part of Joshua Dratel.

          [–]PoliticalDissidents 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

          It was a land slide case with lots of pressure from the government. Judge was biased and favoured the prosecution. On top of that she sentenced him to life when the mandatory minimum is 20 years. They'll appeal and who knows what happens then.

          Edit: That Dratel used the prosecution's witness work against them was pretty amazing.

          [–]targetpro 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          They'll appeal and who knows what happens then.

          I can only hope. Unfortunately, I expect the appeal won't get far. I don't have a lot of faith in Dratel. And I, for one, didn't catch any mistake in the trial that could lead to a review. Hopefully, Dratel laid the grounds for an appeal, but if he did, it was too subtle for me to catch.

          Edit: That Dratel used the prosecution's witness work against them was pretty amazing.

          For what it's worth, it's not uncommon. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws5P2avXIQA )

          [–]stevev916 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Who cares?

          The point is someone should not serve life in prison for running a website.

          [–]loveforyouandme 12ポイント13ポイント  (11子コメント)

          I signed.

          I listened to an interview with Ross's mother last night. Among other things, these points make me believe the process lacked integrity:

          • The sentencing for Ross's offenses is life in prison, no parole, in a maximum security federal prison (where the bad shit happens). Compare with rapists who get 8 years. It is disproportionate to the crime.
          • The pertinent information surrounding the corrupt government officials' involvement was disallowed from the trial completely.
          • Ross was explicitly not allowed to turn around and acknowledge his family, who was present for the proceedings.
          • Ross's political beliefs were not allowed to be heard. Ross's worldview underpinned his actions, and most would agree this was an inherently political issue.
          • The possibility of multiple DPRs was not allowed.
          • The marketplace itself was mischaracterized. Although marijuana was by far the most frequently traded substance, this was barely mentioned. Most depictions were of the substances with the most potential for abuse.

          In my humble opinion, this process reeks of corruption.

          Edit: Ross was indicted on attempted murder charges. Indictments require no evidence and can be based on heresy. No charges were filed and this did not enter the trial. If I wanted to tarnish a character for the masses without substantiating the claims, this is how I'd do it.

          [–]DIGITAL-not-Virtual 22ポイント23ポイント  (117子コメント)

          I don't understand where the DPR haters on this sub come from.

          It's beyond me how any rational person can call for his "hanging" or describe him as an "animal".

          I'm not one for conspiracy theories, and I don't believe in paid government shills, but what else is there?

          [–]Emrico1 16ポイント17ポイント  (5子コメント)

          Especially on reddit. No other sub is like this. Where the hell did all of these conservative lawyer types come from? Did they start with advice animals and then move straight to corporal punishment and anti drug rhetoric? The attitudes here go against the majority of reddit users.

          [–]superradguy 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

          Ross founded and operated an illegal online drug marketplace that just so happened to accept bitcoin as payment. His arrest and prosecution has very little to do with bitcoin or the technology behind it. The only thing the Silk Road did was cast a negative light on bitcoin and those who use it. Many of us see the potential in bitcoin and what it can do for society as a whole, not just those wishing to buy illegal stuff.

          [–]Emrico1 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

          Did he buy, sell, manufacture or import drugs? No. He was charged as if each drug sale was his. He was aware of the trade and didn't stop it. That is his crime.

          Was the DEA corrupt in it's dealings, therefore casting doubt on all or any of the evidence? Yes.

          This is a classic miscarriage of justice, any other case where corruption casts doubt on the evidence, leniency is shown, but not this time. A couple of years inside is plenty for starting an anonymous marketplace. Not. Life. People get less for killing people or running huge drug operations. Or both.

          This may have cast a shadow on bitcoin, but it is the actions of those in power here that have cast the shadow, not illegal trade.

          [–]superradguy 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Even if that is true, it has nothing to do with bitcoin and it does not make sense to be spending so much time focusing on it in this sub.

          [–]Emrico1 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Well I believe that the involvement of bitcoin is what made the judge and people involved so scared. So they have stomped Ross as a kneejerk response. Silk Road and bitcoin are tied either way. Unfortunately.

          [–]Rosti_LFC 7ポイント8ポイント  (8子コメント)

          I don't understand where the DPR haters on this sub come from.

          Because darknet stuff is one of the main black spots on Bitcoin's reputation. The whole "it's just used to buy illegal drugs and weapons" is one of the main arguments used to put people off Bitcoin in terms of mainstream acceptance. Regular people will be less inclined to use Bitcoin if all they hear about it is links to illegal activity.

          People believe that mainstream acceptance is something that will cause Bitcoin prices to skyrocket, therefore for anyone holding large amounts of BTC as an investment, they'd probably want all this darknet stuff to go away because it's only hurting their chances of seeing $1000/BTC ever again.

          A lot of weird behaviour and posts in this subreddit becomes far more logical when you consider a lot of people have a direct financial incentive for commenting and voting based on whatever is most likely to make more people buy more Bitcoin.

          [–]icanhasreclaims 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I think you're response is a bit misguided. Just my opinion though, but I would say the coverage of Ross's sentence has paved the way for more adopters than GBTC going live or NASDAQ using Bitcoin blockchain. If you think soccer moms will begin adopting Bitcoin once the drugs go away, I'd evaluate that at close to 0% adoption.

          So, blame it on what you want, but people are not adopting Bitcoin because it all goes way over their head. Most people out there still have the minimum letters necessary for their email passwords. That ain't gonna fly with Bitcoin.

          [–]notreddingit 4ポイント5ポイント  (6子コメント)

          You don't think the evidence of him hiring hitmen to kill innocent people plays in to it?

          [–]Rosti_LFC 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

          It probably will for some people, probably won't for others. And that's dependent on what you believe to begin with.

          Either way I think there's a reasonable split on here between people who like the darknet shopping aspect for idealistic reasons (or because it's a direct reason to use bitcoin over traditional currency) and people who don't because they see it as harmful to the reputation and potential of bitcoin.

          [–]metamirror 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/no-ross-ulbricht-didnt-murder/

          コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

            [–]justusranvier 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I don't believe in paid government shills

            Really?

            Even when you can look up the actual requests for bids that various government agencies have put out that ask to purchase that very service?

            [–]GundalfTheCamo 10ポイント11ポイント  (6子コメント)

            There are people looking at r/bitcoin's worship of Ross Ulbricht who are thinking about exact fucking opposite question.

            Why does r/bitcoin worship him?

            I understand bitcoin needs a hero and that he was responsible for pushing BTC price up, but god damn .. can't you find someone who does the same function without resorting to several serious crimes?

            Having said that, the sentence was way too high. There's no point keeping a young man in jail for more than 10 years. He didn't actually manage to kill anyone. I'm European so these life sentences for drug crimes just strike me as wrong.

            [–]PumpkinFeet 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

            He didn't actually manage to kill anyone.

            When it comes to morality, do you consider the result of an action to be more relevant than the intention?

            [–]GundalfTheCamo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Probably not more relevant, but I'd factor it in.

            That's part of the reason why most countries have separate penalties for murder and attempted murder.

            [–]jcfy 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

            There are a lot of people on /r/Bitcoin who are defending Ross, not because of his actions, but because of the governments actions in capturing and prosecuting him.

            Finding the server illegally, the fabrication of the murder charges, the federal investigators going corrupt, the railroading of evidence in the trial.

            It doesn't mean Ross doesn't deserve to do time. It just means he was never given a fair trail to begin with.

            [–]magrathea1 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

            any sentence for drug "crime" is wrong. How can you people desire to throw others into cages for victimless crimes?

            [–]JitGoinHam 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

            How about facilitating credit card fraud, identity theft, hacking and murder? If Ross was the broker between a hacker and an the identity thief who ruined your life and good credit, would you wish him to be prosecuted for that? It certainly is a criminal act currently.

            Sure, he moved $183 million in drugs, but also over a million dollars worth of forged documents and stolen credit cards. Are we to assume no one was victimized as a result of those transactions? Are there buyers who are just really into collecting other people's credit card data?

            [–]Synchronauto 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

            I don't believe in paid government shills

            Western spy agencies build ‘cyber magicians’ to manipulate online discourse
            From the Snowden leak: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

            And mainstream media covered Israel doing exactly this:

            Bonus: Obama pick for NSA review panel wanted paid, pro-government shills in chat rooms

            [–]idlestabilizer 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

            People are feed up with the posts trying to make Ulbricht another martyr for the free internet.

            [–][削除されました]  (23子コメント)

            [deleted]

              [–]Miz4r_ 5ポイント6ポイント  (22子コメント)

              If there was sufficient evidence he actually did those things and he got a life sentence because of that I wouldn't object. But those charges were dropped and we can't just assume he is guilty of those crimes based on some chat logs, so I really don't see any reason to be so harsh and judgmental against him.

              [–]MarshallBanana 3ポイント4ポイント  (11子コメント)

              But those charges were dropped

              Except they weren't. They are still pending.

              [–]notreddingit -2ポイント-1ポイント  (9子コメント)

              Murder for hire charges not dropped and still pending in Maryland as far as anyone has been able to ascertain.

              Why do you need to see him convicted of that though if we've already seen extremely strong evidence that he did in fact order the murders of 5 people? With the 6th one being what would be tried in Maryland if they ever prosecute it. Which they probably won't at this point considering he already has life.

              [–][削除されました]  (8子コメント)

              [deleted]

                [–]notreddingit 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

                The blockchain is easily fabricated?

                The evidence for the five murder for hires was presented in the trial. Look at it objectively and make up your own mind.

                [–][削除されました]  (5子コメント)

                [deleted]

                  [–]notreddingit 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

                  The only evidence I've seen are chat logs that the government claims Ross was the on talking in.

                  How about the blockchain evidence that lines up perfectly with those chats? Ross was in control of those coins.

                  The Maryland murder for hire charges probably wont' go to court since he's already in for life, but we'll see what happens. I'd rather see them try it than not, but I highly doubt they'll do it.

                  [–]fancyparking 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

                  What is your response then to the judge not allowing the defense to bring in technical experts that would speak to the authenticity of those documents? Considering how online information can easily be manipulated, wouldn't that be an important aspect to present?

                  コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                    [–]dellintelbitcoin 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    People wanting attention:)

                    [–]btc_rofl 2ポイント3ポイント  (11子コメント)

                    I don't understand where the DPR haters on this sub come from.

                    Just a thought, but maybe because he paid to have people killed?

                    [–]FreeMarketAnarchist 6ポイント7ポイント  (10子コメント)

                    Have you ever heard of the concept innocent until proven guilty?

                    [–]notreddingit 4ポイント5ポイント  (6子コメント)

                    FreeMarketAnarchist relies on the state to determine Ross' guilt. The public evidence does not concern him because it's the state that will decide what he thinks of Ross for him.

                    ...

                    [–]PumpkinFeet 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Haha buddy well played.

                    [–]FreeMarketAnarchist 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

                    My personal political and economic views have nothing to do with the current legal and judiciary systems.

                    [–]tatertatertatertot 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

                    And "innocent until proven guilty" as a legal construct has nothing to do with personal viewpoints.

                    [–]FreeMarketAnarchist 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

                    What?

                    [–]tatertatertatertot 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    In response to this comment chain:

                    I don't understand where the DPR haters on this sub come from.

                    Just a thought, but maybe because he paid to have people killed?

                    You said:

                    Have you ever heard of the concept innocent until proven guilty?

                    That's just a legal concept, not one that guides, determines, or involves personal viewpoints about whether (let's say) Ross Ulbricht attempted to have people killed and is thus worthy of "hate."

                    "Innocent until proven guilty" as a legal construct has nothing to do with personal viewpoints.

                    [–]FreeMarketAnarchist 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Right and like I said to him, if it was his opinion that Ross paid to have people killed he should state it as such and not as a fact.

                    [–]btc_rofl 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

                    He hasn't been put on trial for the attempted murder charges yet. He'll have his day in court for that, but the outcome of a trial is just to see if he's guilty or innocent according to the law.

                    Only Ross knows whether or not he paid to have people killed. I, along with any other reasonable person looking at this, am just looking at the evidence that's been presented and forming my opinion. In my opinion, he more than likely did attempt to have people killed and I have an accordingly low opinion of him.

                    [–]FreeMarketAnarchist 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Well if its opinion you should state it as such. From the parent comment that stemmed this discussion you made it seem like the jury was out.

                    [–]icanhasreclaims 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    You're forgetting that more people than Ross know who called those hits. Carl Force?

                    [–]MarshallBanana 3ポイント4ポイント  (48子コメント)

                    I don't understand where the DPR haters on this sub come from.

                    The real world? Where we don't like people who try to have innocents murdered?

                    What part of that could possibly be difficult to understand?

                    [–]rydan 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Government, please pardon Ross.

                    All these haters must be the government.

                    How exactly do you expect this to play out if what you just said is correct?

                    コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                      [–]CanaryInTheMine 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      if you're gonna start a petition, that will be ignored anyways, you should do it on that whitehouse petition website

                      [–]Jdjfkfjf 11ポイント12ポイント  (83子コメント)

                      This kid is no hero, he ran a $183 million drug, fake documents, etc business. Last time I visited his website before it got busted they were selling cyanide and murder-for-hire there. That's serious stuff, not just a few grams of dope.

                      Nobody would care if the site was run by a brown Mexican or something, everyone would agree with a life sentence in that case. Lol

                      [–]BeefSupreme2 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      A brown Mexican? The subtle racism in this post is astounding.

                      [–]targetpro 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      It's from a 1-day troll account.

                      [–][削除されました]  (72子コメント)

                      [deleted]

                        [–]StressOverStrain 14ポイント15ポイント  (66子コメント)

                        Except it was clearly demonstrated that Ross didn't care what was sold as long as he got his cut of the profits. Illegal stuff slips through eBay of course, but they are proactive about removing obvious stuff and illegal goods are banned in their terms of service, which is a far cry from Silk Road. It was even more blatant on Silk Road; you could put cyanide or murder-for-hire right in the title and Ross didn't care. He just wanted his money. That's what he went to jail for.

                        [–]cmwillis02G 14ポイント15ポイント  (63子コメント)

                        Its not that he didn't care, it was the sole purpose of the site, it was advertised and built to accomplish one task and one task only. Facilitating the transaction of ILLEGAL goods.

                        [–]wwickeddogg 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        If you owned a physical cafe that people had to pay a cover charge and then you allowed them to advertise for drugs or murder once they were inside, would you be guilty of a crime?

                        [–]StressOverStrain 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Obviously there are many shades of gray in between extremes, but yeah, if you are aware that illegal activities are happening and doing nothing to stop them, but letting them blatantly advertise and collecting profit off of it, that's a crime. I'm sure drugs are exchanged and sold in regular old cafes or night clubs all of the time, but it's done in secret by two individual parties, and if the owner finds out they're liable to kick them out and/or report them.

                        [–]Jdjfkfjf 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        The Mexican drug lord does not sell the drugs himself either.

                        He was not "just doing a tech job", he was running a huge international drug and illegal items business.

                        If he had "just done a tech job", he wouldn't have received life in prison but worked at Google or something. He certainly knew what he was getting into.

                        He wouldn't have made millions of $$$ in 2 years though "working just a tech job".

                        Big money but big risk and he just f**ked up and got caught.

                        コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

                          [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

                          [deleted]

                            [–]targetpro 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            1-day account suggests the former.

                            [–]loveforyouandme 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

                            I disagree. In the future I think marketplaces will be truly free and we'll look back and wonder why man tried to control the personal lives of fellow man.

                            [–]BlindManSight -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

                            Mhm.. Idk. Maybe the fact that he put a hit on 6 other fellow men?

                            [–]loveforyouandme 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            No. He was indicted on attempted murder charges. Indictments require no evidence and may be based purely on heresy. No charges were filed or heard during the trial. Lets not slander without reasonable evidence, hm?

                            [–]ApplicableSongLyric 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Nobody would care if the site was run by a brown Mexican or something

                            Interesting, that's what the judge essentially said with the "privilege" argument.

                            [–]Bitware 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

                            I fully support a pardon for Ross, but I have my doubts as to whether it will ever happen. I believe his only hope is a successful appeal based on reversible error to the Federal District Court of Appeals, and then the Supreme Court if that fails.

                            [–]itisike 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

                            What do you think his appeal can be based on?

                            [–]Anen-o-me 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Truth, justice, and the American way.

                            [–]Bitware 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            No clue, but I believe appeals courts require that the previous court erred in some way to reverse decisions.

                            [–]ctfn00b 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            Not bitcoin related

                            [–]sajber 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Just signed it.

                            [–]dat_bit 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

                            Backpage contains a section for listing "adult entertainment" services. Although it officially prohibits illegal services including prostitution, the site still contains listings explicitly for sex. Each month the team finds around 400 ads offering potentially underage sex.

                            Why isn't the Backpage founder serving a life sentence?

                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backpage

                            [–]Lawyerlarrysanderty 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

                            You answered yourself: "Each month the team finds around 400 ads offering potentially underage sex."

                            Because they are actively removing them and their TOS most probably ban illegal activities. Furthermore, they probably work with authorities.

                            Silk Road did none of that.

                            [–]6to23 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

                            so if you created an online marketplace site and then abandoned it to the users to play without moderation, then you could suddenly be arrested and convicted for life in prison?

                            [–]Lawyerlarrysanderty 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            The sentence certainly depends on your involvement and intentions. In the case of Mr. Ulbricht it was made very clear to the jury that he set up the site and managed it right until being arrested in order to make huge amounts of money from his illegal activities. Therefore the maximum sentence.

                            [–]rabbitlion 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            If you continue to own and host the site, you have not abandoned it, so yes you could probably get arrested. It's very unlikely that you would get life in prison if you were not profiting off or actively operating the site.

                            A site without moderation would not work well though, it would quickly get overrun by spambots and fade into obscurity, probably preventing the arrest.

                            コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                              [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

                              [deleted]

                                [–]yourliestopshere 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                who owns change.org?

                                [–]usrn 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                Give him 5 years for stupidity.

                                [–]gulfbitcoin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                Ulbricht admitted to starting SR. He'll never be pardoned; at best his sentence will be reduced.

                                The petitions both on Change.org and the "We the People" site on whitehouse.gov had zero effect in addressing the actions of Aaron Swartz's prosecutors.

                                [–]Dosage_Of_Reality 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                No chance. Try again in 20 years to commute the sentence, but he's not getting out with no real time served.

                                [–]BitcoinNL 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                Signed and shared. We keep fighting!

                                [–]DoGoodCoins -1ポイント0ポイント  (22子コメント)

                                "pardon: the action of forgiving or being forgiven for an error or offense."

                                I don't think many of you are willing to admit he did something wrong. It annoys the hell out of me how some of you turn him into some kind of do-gooder that "gave the public a safer way to get drugs". He did it for money. For greed - Just like any other drug dealer. Plain and fucking simple as that.

                                Here comes my inbox flooding of people ignoring everything in this post calling me an idiot. Herp derp.

                                [–]Anen-o-me 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                I don't think many of you are willing to admit he did something wrong.

                                Bringing together buyers and sellers? What are you, a communist?

                                [–]magrathea1 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                here you go: you are a fucking idiot!!! anyone who followed DPR, knows you don't know shit about what you are talking about! this guy wasn't living like some drug kingpin. He did give all of us a way to exercise the freedoms that the government has illegally taken from us.

                                [–]DoGoodCoins 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                He wasn't living like a drug kingpin cause he was trying to conceal himself - Don't be a fucking retard.

                                As for "freedoms that government has illegally taken from us". What? You're right to buy hard drugs at the local 7-11? You think that's a good idea because "It's your body" bullshit? Do you know the kinds of things people do on some drugs? It's not just "your body". Some drugs should be illegal and maybe you should learn about them before you spew shit about freedoms. You don't and NEVER HAD those "freedoms". If you fucking idiots had it your way you would legalize drunk driving right? ROFL

                                [–]itisike 1ポイント2ポイント  (11子コメント)

                                I think almost everyone will agree that he broke the law at this point.

                                [–]Anen-o-me 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                Who cares, when the law is unethical in the first place? An unjust law is no law at all.

                                [–]itisike 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                Parent was implying a pardon is wrong if he didn't break the law.

                                [–]magrathea1 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                He broke unjust laws. Doing so is the responsibility of patriots and moral citizens.

                                [–]metamirror 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                Glass house much?

                                [–]targetpro 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                He did it for money. For greed - Just like any other drug dealer.

                                What evidence do you have of that?

                                コメントをもっと表示する (6 返事)

                                  [–]cbeast -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                  250 thousand people die every year from violent street drugs crimes which is a 321 billion dollar per year industry. Sadly six poor souls were allegedly lost because of the fifty million dollar per year silk road website. While tragic, the same amount of traffic would have generated many times more deaths on the streets. Maybe it's time to address the disease and not just the symptoms.

                                  [–]tatertatertatertot 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                  cbeast:

                                  250 thousand people die every year from violent street drugs crimes

                                  No, that is not true.

                                  I think you're trying to reference this study:

                                  http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/news/20120105/worldwide-illegal-drug-use-estimated-200-million-people-year

                                  ...which either you or an intermediary source misunderstood or is misrepresenting. The deaths the illegal drugs caused in that study were not violent street crime, but deaths due to medical issues arising from substance use/abuse. Because, you know, illegal or legal drugs actually can be very dangerous.

                                  Your statement doesn't even pass the common sense test. The world saw a total of 437,000 murders last year.

                                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

                                  And you're here trying to claim that 57.2% of all murders worldwide are due to violent street crimes related to the trading of illegal drugs? No, I don't think so. You just misunderstood (or credulously believed) a number on "drug deaths" relating to something else.

                                  Sadly six poor souls were allegedly lost because of the fifty million dollar per year silk road website.

                                  It's likely that no one actually died because although Ulbricht was a criminal with murderous intent and tried to have people killed for money, he wasn't a very good criminal and got scammed by "hitmen" to take out potentially fictional targets.

                                  [–]cbeast 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  The math may be incorrect, but even if it was off by a couple orders of magnitude, it still makes the point. There were no violent acts performed on the silk road web site because it is virtual and not real life. Certainly even if there were "hitmen" they probably don't make a livelyhood from bitcoin and wouldn't risk the traceability. The American judicial system is a complete farce.

                                  [–]Gizilliygilliy 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                  From dat change.org petition: "Getting life in prison for the crime of organizing an online marketplace is unjustified and draconian on its own."

                                  I think there's more to the story than "organizing an online marketplace" because eBay and Amazon are doing just fine, along with their creators.

                                  At least be accurate and say "organizing an online marketplace for illegal drugs and goods." Condoning illicit activity (and profiting off of it) is why he went to jail.

                                  [–]J-Free 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  "Illegal" and "illicit" are funny words some people care too much about...

                                  [–]Jdlwjdhskyk 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                  [quote]we are clearly in the end game of the decades long, misguided government crusade against drugs. It has ruined lives, torn apart communities, destroyed many countries, and the only winners have been organized crime.[/quote]

                                  What was Silk Road if it wasn't "organized crime"?

                                  [–]metamirror 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  A government psy-op and honeypot.

                                  [–]Gizilliygilliy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  Once we get 1000 signatures Barack Obama must agree to a title fight for the heavyweight belt.

                                  [–]pkprosol 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  Hey all, I actually started this petition and I appreciate seeing it shared and discussed on Reddit. I realize there are some challenging issues involved here and it's not all black and white, which I've started trying to dig into in some of the petition updates. I'm happy to field any direct questions or feedback. Thank you for your interest and discussion.

                                  As a bonus, consider how utterly futile imprisoning him is, if nothing else: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stefanie-jones/ross-ulbricht-silk-road-sentence_b_7464438.html

                                  Btw, I see some people complaining specifically about how this is Change.org, that it's spammy. If that's true I admit it's my rookie mistake as I haven't really done any petitions before. Unfortunately that particular ship has sailed.

                                  [–]Jdjfkfjf 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                  I followed the trial a bit, Ulbricht indeed confirmed paying $150000 to have a guy killed, although the guy he paid was FBI. Ulbrichts lawyer said to court it was some kind of "role play" (LOL).

                                  The other guys he tried to kill he paid $500000 to have people killed in Canada. Google "Ulbricht Hells Angels Vancouver". It is believed he was scammed in this case though, since no murder has taken place.

                                  http://www.wired.com/2015/02/read-transcript-silk-roads-boss-ordering-5-assassinations/

                                  [–]targetpro 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  "...Ulbricht indeed confirmed paying $150000 to have a guy killed..."

                                  I didn't see that in the court transcript. Do you recall which day that was on?

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                                    [–]yourliestopshere -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                    Who owns change.org?

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