Charleston Shooting Megathread

Ace4929 · 7日前

So much fighting over whether or not he's a terrorist, who cares?! I dont care if hes half lobster, he killed 9 people, what more do you need?

epilepticjerkoff · 7日前

I mean i keep seeing this back and forth like "hes mentally ill" "no hes racist shitlord" but like honestly its probably both. i mean this kid is a purported meth head which obviously lends itself to the idea that hes a bit off his rocker but he also outright said he was there to kill black people. in the end does it even matter if he was mentally ill? he murdered a bunch of innocent people in cold blood, of course there was something wrong with him, but there are plenty of mentally ill people who medicate and control their illness, while this kid chose to exacerbate it with dangerous drugs. so basically hes a racist mass murderer, i mean even if hes mental hes a fucking monster and thats not even a bit of an excuse.

Rocky_Hardwood · 7日前

Some of the things I'm seeing is stuff about culture, especially southern culture. Like how it's not surprising because he lives in the state that still flies the confederate flag, and somehow that means the state automatically is collectively part of the problem.

as a resident of said state, I've NEVER felt that the culture here is constructed to build hate against black people. that flag, now a days, really doesn't seem to mean shit. was he taught something by someone that might have fucked him up? of course. But he and his upbringing are not representative of everyone here, or the culture. if he was, you'd think we'd be seeing more things like this happen a lot more often.

ANONYMOOSE_111 · 7日前

I'm being told I can't listen to rap music or wear certain clothes because I am white and don't go to protests. I should not be blamed or policed based on what one member of my race does.

strawberrylime13 · 7日前

It seems to me they are desperately trying to bemd and twist the situation to fit their narrative. It hasn't even been that long yet and my Tumblr feed is overflowing with people calling "terrorism" (although does this count as terrorism?); and people are ripping apart what facts they do have.

For instance, they're screaming that he had a bulletproof vest on while in police custody. Why is this a problem?? High profile suspects have many times been murdered before they get to trial, resulting in no justice ever being served. But they're practically calling out for his assassination, because they want to have that vigilante rush.

No handcuffs either is a problem. I don't know why they didn't handcuff him - I imagine he was already so heavily supervised it wouldn't have been neccessary. But they want it strictly for the image of it.

And of course, they baleet all talk of mental illness when this is clearly a mental illness issue. "Racism isn't a mental illness", no. But being racist to the point you kill people might be a symptom. They are desperate to turn this into something that is somehow endorsed by white culture and fostered within it.

fuckingliterally · 8日前

Anyone mind linking a good tl;dr on everything that has happened, for those who literally live under a rock?

Thanatar18 · 5日前

I suppose for lack of anything else to say, I'll say what I believe should be done in the hopes of promoting my point of view to others or at least exposing them to it.

In a more just world, I believe that someone who does something like this would receive equal retribution. However, considering he's young he shouldn't be killed as of yet.

In a more just world, a person who kills 10 innocent people would suffer the pain each of those people suffered, and more for their waste of lives. Similarly, in a just world someone who kills based on race should be, in all honesty, skinned alive. Fact of the matter is underneath we're more or less the same, and it's a easy way to show the general populace that justice has been served and that it's not something to be done.

Considering that nowadays people don't go well for such things, I'd propose instead he be left for the masses to deal with as they please; after all, he decided to discriminate upon an entire race, and as such he should face his crimes to that race. If he dies, I do believe he doesn't deserve a burial. In the context of (and considering realism) modern day society, I believe the most appropriate thing to do would be to sentence him to lifetime imprisonment in a jail with a low percentage of whites (less than average), and make it clear he has no legal protection for his life whatsoever, and there are no repercussions for those who harm him. Of course, his stay at the prison should be televised, because there's no better way to prove a point.

I'm not racist; if a black person did the same to a group of white people I'd suggest the same justice.

captainktainer · 5日前

My right-wing assholes of family members are pulling the NRA line that it's the preacher's fault that this asshole shot up a church. Others are saying it's Obama's fault for being Black when we needed a white man... or some shit. Disgusting people. In the meantime, in TIA, there are people with literally the same views here and here basically spouting the same lines as the guy who shot up this church. "Bring back apartheid!" "No race mixing!"

It makes me sick. I know that SJWs pull a lot of awful crap. I know that the community that is exemplified in Tumblr and many other places is destructive and toxic and exactly the opposite of progress. But I'm reminded today of what /u/ArchangelleBorgore said - this is increasingly not a sub for making fun of the worst of Tumblr. 20 days ago he/she/xir/fur/myassisananimorpher wrote about how the sub was increasingly "a circlejerk of hatred and borderline bigotry mixed with generic shitposting."

I've seen that today. I had to be the one person to say "This was satire of the other position." And in the meantime, there was genuine hate speech, from people who believe exactly as the Charleston shooter did, treated as gospel. I can't express how sick that makes me.

Maybe I'm worth nothing in the scheme of things. But I've always thought that justice is for everyone. Tumblr's excess in culture is in accepting any amount of bullshit as truth, and in being an absolute circlejerk about how awful anyone born with my DNA can be.

But what's happening here is scary. These same ideas - hate Black people, stop race mixing, support apartheid - just killed nine people who were doing everything possible to welcome, accept, and love the person who killed them. Tumblr is a raging shitpile of shitposters who believe shit things and shit on good people and do awful things. But I didn't realize, until today, how thoroughly TIA had been moved in the opposite direction. I hadn't thought, today, about how really, Tumblr hasn't been associated with mass murder. With respect to TIA, I thought "it's just a couple of guys," but I find more and more and more and more and it breaks my heart. I didn't expect the cockroaches who believe in racial superiority and apartheid to be crawling out of their dark places and infesting this place. I've gotten to know, if only by reputation, so many good people. It's just been an awakening moment to realize just how deeply the sickness has penetrated, and I feel filthy.

redbreadredemption · 7日前

sooo, CNN just said it was to be labelled as : domestic terrorism

im not really much against this, but for some reason, the way they framed it seems rather [problematic] because instead of being an actual threat or actually doing some violence, they also defined it as "act of intimidation" (which pretty much any professional victim-type can construe as "anything that triggers me" or something, and then they also said about social activism and "safe spaces"

i dont have the full info because im working in my gaming/office PC in my room and only payed half of my attention while my dad had CNN on the tv in the other room

tubefox · 7日前

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Yangel · 7日前

lol @ Rhodesia turning into a 'worse then South Africa' apartheid society in the media.

BlisterBox · 7日前

Well, this pretty clearly was a hate crime. But terrorism? I don't think so.

Timothy McVeigh was a terrorist. Osama bin Laden was a terrorist. That Boston bomber dude is a terrorist. If Roof is a terrorist, so are the Baltimore rioters.

MusicManSamwise · 7日前

Seeing lots of posts on Facebook comparing the (relatively) peaceful arrest of the suspect to all the black victims who died at the hands of police recently, basically saying "this is how white suspects get treated compared to black ones."

If only there were a term to describe this sort of thing...

positif_ · 7日前

A few rebuttals to SJWs trying to fit this incident into "Amerikkka is oppressing black people" narrative.

The amount of black people that this kid killed is a minuscule fraction of the amount of black people that die every year at the hands of other blacks. If black lives truly mattered to SJWs and other leftists, this is where they would start. Thus far all they have proved is that only political narratives matter to them, not black lives.
There's a photo floating around the internet, with a picture of Roof in a bulletproof vest getting calmly escorted by cops. The apprehension is then compared to the treatment that the likes of Freddy Gray, Eric Garner, and co. have gotten at the hands of police, when apprehended for minor crimes. This, then, is touted as ironclad proof of racism on behalf of police.

But this misses a few key details. Firstly, Roof is a scrawny kid who was surrendering to the police. Garner, for example, was a 350 pound man who was clearly trying to resist arrest. Secondly, if you know anything about police bureaucracy, then you will recognize that Roof is a valuable asset to the police department. Convicting him of murder will grant the cops a huge check-mark and a job well done, whereas his death would lead to another, technically unsolved, crime. Why or how would anyone be able to kill Roof while escorted? Same way Lee Harvey Oswald was killed.
Doubling down on the narrative described in my second rebuttal, SJWs are still convinced that black people are discriminated against by the justice system for nothing else other than their race. As an overview of empirical literature on the subject by Scott Alexander shows, however, this isn't true. There simply isn't a link between being black and being more likely to be mistreated by the justice system. There are too many confounding variables at hand. (http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/25/race-and-justice-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/)

Furthermore, criminal whites are actually more likely to be killed by police than criminal blacks, as research by Dr. Peter Moskos of Harvard University has shown. “Adjusted for the homicide rate, whites are 1.7 times more likely than blacks die at the hands of police,” he said. “Adjusted for the racial disparity at which police are feloniously killed, whites are 1.3 times more likely than blacks to die at the hands of police.” (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/21/police-kill-more-whites-than-blacks-but-minority-d/)

no___justno · 4日前

What difference does it make if he's a racist or insane or a druggie or a white supremist or anything else?

Dissecting his life and motives with a microscope won't undo what has been done, it won't bring resolution to the poor grieving families, it won't amount to anything.

Right now as far as I'm concerned, he is nothing more than a violent criminal who should receive the harshest penalty available by law. Period.

Anything more is just pushing an agenda... which to be fair is what SJWs are all about, so their obsession with this case does not surprise me. It does sicken and sadden me though.

hfwang18 · 8日前

Lots of SJWs out on Facebook today. They demand to have this incident be called terrorism and a hate crime, and calls out the media for "double standards" because the media would call any mass murder by a Muslim terrorism. They say that the media and Nikki Haley, by only calling it a mass murder, erases the special experience that blacks face in the US with "terrorism" against them for over a century, and says that calling it as just a mass murder and the shooter just a deranged criminal is an insult to black people.

The #blacklivesmatter hashtag makes a reappearance, yet again.

JulienMayfair · 6日前

The latest SJW argument is that the shooter can't have been intelligent enough on his own to choose this church as a target and that he must have been headed somewhere to meet people who were part of the group that pointed him in this direction. Sorry, but the fact that this guy committed a horrible act doesn't mean that he can't use Google to pick a target and can't get inspired in a general sense by Stormfront or some other such online group, much like kids that have watched ISIS videos and decide to join up.

william_walsh · 8日前

i've seen a lot of posts claiming that the media is using mental illness in an attempt to hide the fact that the shooter was racist. some people are even saying he doesn't have a mental illness. tumblr: where omnigendered parasexual otherkin who self-diagnose themself with schizophrenia because they had an imaginary friend when they were younger are taken seriously while a man who did a very psychopathic thing isn't mentally ill and is only racist.

thisissparta789789 · 8日前

Step 1: Has mental issue.

Step 2: Develops racist ideas and thoughts from some outside source, possibly a relative, a friend, a book, a website, etc.

Step 3: Mental issue makes racist thoughts and ideas worse.

Step 4: Racist thoughts and ideas make him more unstable.

Step 5: Repeat steps 3 and 4 continuously.

This is what I think what was going on in that little fucker's head up to the point he committed the attack.

not_shadowbanned_yet · 7日前

Does anyone notice how readily the same people who will call you racist for bringing up interracial crime statistics will demonise all whites based on the actions of this lone nut? The news media pushes the narrative that interracial crime is white on black, but the statistics tell a story overwhelmingly in the opposite direction.

But I guess when whites get killed by black lunatics for being white it’s poverty, but when blacks get killed by white lunatics it’s systemic racism.

betaking12 · 5時間前

the confederacy wasn't really hateful, it was, however, a goddamn mess and a terribly executed country/rebellion/thing. from the start.

it had a terrible system of military organization, it had incredibly bad logistics.

the only reason that the civil war wasn't ended within a year or two was due to a high-degree of union incompetence, and an unusual amount of luck on the part of the southern military generals.

frankly I think the union should've been more thorough with reconstruction, and completely erased the southern aristocracy(pushed land-reform that would've benefitted poor whites and ex-slaves), while exiling any aristocrats or local-leaders who were still firm believers in the lost cause, or who caused trouble(for occupying union troops), to the recently purchased territory of alaska, (while leaving the option open for them to emigrate elsewhere).

ghost_403 · 7日前

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swampfox20 · 8日前

As a charlestonian, this is all a lot of unwanted attention for us. I'm glad the community has really come together In prayer and support

slogand · 8日前

Mental illness definitely played a role, but we've got to acknowledge the race issue. Someone taught him to think like this, and that combined with whatever internal issues he had going on was an explosive recipe for disasters.

actofgod22 · 7日前

Don't forget that a black man committed a nearly identical crime a few months ago, walking into a synagogue screaming that he must kill the Jews. Oddly, that didn't get as much attention as this. I wonder why?

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/student-stabbed-chabad-lubavitch-crown-heights-article-1.2038761

rednbluesnocone · 3日前

Since this is somewhat related to this event, I want to talk about the Confederate flag and its now controversial symbolism behind it.

When you hear about the Civil War, the first things that come to mind are "Confederacy," "slaves," and similar words. While I won't deny that America has a long history of extreme racism, I am, however, bothered by the fact that there is so much ignorance concerning the Confederacy during the Civil War.

The fact that there are legit racist groups that use the Confederate flag as a symbol of hatred is one of the reasons why the flag is considered "evil" and "racist." I'm not a huge fan of the South, however, I feel as though they get too much bullshit thrown on them constantly just because racist groups and religious extremists of the Christian kind happen to live there. That's like saying the flag of Islam represents terrorism and Muslims living in the Middle East are all terrorists.

It's depressing how little people actually understand the history of the Civil War. It's even more depressing when events such as Charleston, Baltimore, and Ferguson are exploited to spin narratives. The ones doing the spinning know this will get them clicks, money, and attention to spread a very ill-informed agenda.

I'm disgusted with what has happened in recent events and there's no denying that racism has played a significant role in the shooting. The fact that he used the Confederate flag as a symbol of hatred further destroys the intent that the flag originally carried, which is to be a battle flag for the Confederacy.

If people want this flag off of the pole, then there is nothing much that I can do to change their minds. All I can do is write comments like this and have the facts to back it up.

More information:

Source #1:

Source #2:

(Had to make sure these sources were not biased in either direction before posting them).

HiddenHerald · 5日前

The guy was a racist it seems. The problem is everyone involved is trying to use him and the victims as a political football. The left is trying to paint the right wing and conservatives as racists because this guy was a racist and the right is trying to deflect the race based identity politics shaming from the left and go with a war on Christians narrative. I'm frankly sick of all of these political pundit and their fucking games. I really wish society was faster when it comes to recognizing it's being spun a narrative. It always figures it out eventually, it just takes 10 years.

cakesphere · 8日前

I think it's probably too early to say how much of it was racism and how much was mental illness, if either played a part.

I'll be very surprised if he was completely sane but that's just my bias talking.

redbreadredemption · 7日前

in the mental issue topic,

im honestly against the whole "be lenient just because they had mental/physical issues" arguement"

I myself, as cringey and special snowflake as it might sound, go through some "unsavory" urges and even hallucinations of things like, throwing people off a moving vehicle, attempting to stab myself with a knife etc, but i manage to keep in in check with a mental check list.

do i really want to do this?

and im pretty sure everyone has this to a degree, and thats why we have distinctions between murder and homicide, homicide can still be argued that whatever transpired was somehow unwanted by either affected party, on the other hand murder is where the perpetrator knowingly plans and goes through the steps to make sure that the thing will transpire.

at some point in time, he asked himself if he was sure that he wants go through with this, and he answered himself with a yes.

TanTanTanuki · 7日前

The thing about these events is that they bring out what I hate most in my peers on the left. That bandwagoning idiocy where if you don't immediately scream for the death of evil whitey you're automatically some kind of skinhead in disguise. That attempting to look at a situation objectively rather than as some grand avatar for greater social mechanisms makes you a shitlord.

The kid shot a church full of black people. He was obviously racially motivated. He is probably mentally ill. He is poor. He is from South Carolina. He is white. He is male. None of those factors "made" him do it, but all of them had a hand in why he did what he did to who he did it to. Yet he is treated like the avatar of every acceptable target demographic he fits in. He represents the ills of white people. Of men. He represents the "pervasive culture of white racism".

It's exactly what Fox News types do when they pick a particularly violent black criminal and parade him about. This kid then represents the ills of black people. Of "thug culture". Of nontraditional families. Of poverty. He becomes the avatar of "black violence".

In one, it's white people's fault this kid exists. In the other, it's black people's fault this kid exists. When in reality each would have a multitude of reasons for acting the way they did. In all likelihood, this kid would never have lashed out were he not poor. If he had a healthy support system. A better education. A better life. Just the same for the Fox News criminal.

It's infuriating to watch people that decry Fox News for their biases and lack of logic when they report on the "evil scary black criminal" and then turn around and shout about the "evil scary white criminal". Because, had the person possessed a different skin tone, they'd actually be looking at the situation instead of immediately shouting crap.

The shooting itself is sad, and sickening. Senseless loss of life like that is horrible. Families destroyed. People dead. Irreparable tears left in human hearts from the loss. These people need privacy and time to mourn. They need empathy and care. Not what they have gotten.

Fuck the people that parade these types of events in pursuing an agenda. Fuck the media for making a racial circus of every conflict instead of trying to create actual dialogue. And fuck the bandwagoners that jump on this and crimes like it to demonize the groups of their choice.

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