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Rotherham sex abuse inquiry identifies 300 suspects (bbc.co.uk)

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[–]Capsulets 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Good to see some good coming out of the Rotherham child exploitation report, and that action is actually being taken. I think the town would benefit from a second investigation a few months from now to see if the problem really has been resolved in a satisfactory way, and if there are still areas or groups that need to improved.

[–]ShitfacePhil 5ポイント6ポイント  (12子コメント)

So sad. How the hell did it get this bad?

[–]yetieaterif the rich are extruded via a needle, do camels enter heaven? 14ポイント15ポイント  (11子コメント)

Well, in the early 2000's someone set an objective for the police to reduce particular kinds of crime.

South Yorkshire police decided that vulnerable girls engaging in dangerous behaviour were a lot less important than burglary and car crime, as a result, because they wanted to improve their 'score', they shut down any work on CSE, despite objections of various local campaigners and individual officers. It is certain that senior officers decided not to investigate known cases, from ex-officer testimony.

In Rotherham in particular, local authority voices shouting about CSE were silenced by political infighting and worries about upsetting people (the famed political correctness). Thus pressure was not maintained on the police, so their abandoning their damn job went relatively unchallenged (although in nearby Sheffield the same police authority did fuckall despite great pressure from the council, so council pressure might not have solved the problem).

In 2010 or so, a number of other police authorities were making major strides against CSE and sharing lessons. South Yorkshire Police were sitting picking their nose. About 2013 the situation blows up and after receiving a bollocking from the home affairs select committee South Yorkshire Police start doing their job a little bit again.

A number of prosecutions happen, UKIP and EDL try to exploit events for advantage through inflaming tensions, etc.

IPCC scratch the surface of South Yorkshire Police, shit starts to look seriously dodgy and 42 officers are under investigation. Allegations likely include collusion in abuse, involvement in covering up abuse and intimidation of government investigators way back when.

[–]niftykettlesPro Commonwealth, Pro UKIP 8ポイント9ポイント  (10子コメント)

to be fair to the EDL, they were reporting about grooming gangs back in 2009, its not like they jumped in after it all blew up for point scoring

[–]whistdrive 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

Nick Griffin was talking about it in 2004 while the Muslim Council of Britain and UAF were distributing leaflets calling it a 'racist myth' on the part of the BNP in 2007. Seems like the issue was so delicate that only violent racist types were talking about it.

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

It wasn't delicate, it was just an issue not enough people cared about to act.

[–]oneonetwooneonetwo -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

The problem is it was a racist myth long before 2004. People unhappy that brown people are taking your women is a theme Shakespeare dealt with. The reason there might be a "political correctness" issue that means the police are leery of investigating is because this just happens to be a classic bit of racism.

[–]whereverigo 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

What else do you expect from people whose main religious figure was a paedophile?

[–]fiercelyfriendly 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's time we started calling these scum the term we reserve for our most hated. These are not "sexual exploiters".

These are fucking perverted paedophiles. They fuck children.

[–]niftykettlesPro Commonwealth, Pro UKIP 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

This happened up and down the country, makes me sick to my stomach.

[–]MiKe1100123 34ポイント35ポイント  (29子コメント)

Dirty bastards and the truth is hardly a handful will end up being prosecuted. Same thing with FGM it's on such a vast scale very little can be done. Welcome to the modern Britain, their multicultural dream is our living nightmare.

[–]CarlswaenMore than a star on someone else's flag 38ポイント39ポイント  (24子コメント)

Same thing with FGM it's on such a vast scale very little can be done.

You could stop FGM practically overnight if you were willing to put the resources and conviction into it.

Call it what it is child abuse and grievous bodily harm. Introduce OB/GYN consultations (they're going to have OB/GYN checks throughout their life anyway) with at least 2 medical professionals and a parent present if they want. Conduct checks at various stages in their development.

Send out a message that if they're willing to allow their daughter to undergo FGM expect to lose eveything, all their children to go into care, and both parents go to prison for a very long time. Any medical professional who doesn't report it or is involved in it is struck off, and goes to prison for a very long time, and if they've traveled overseas to have it done then begin an application for rendition.

If it is done without one parent or more's permission then they better be the first to report it there and then at the police station.

You can make FGM disappear from the UK by telling parents if it happens to their child their children go into care under new identities, they lose their liberty, and they win a lifetime membership to the sex offender's register.

It's not like it's something that can just happen by accident.

[–]WillyPete 9ポイント10ポイント  (5子コメント)

The only fault I can imagine, is parents witholding their children from attending the registered OB/GYN.

[–]fiercelyfriendly 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

Same sanctions, present your child or face prison.

[–]Aadamptech 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

So you have to prove your innocence by submitting to some tests rather than someone else proving your guilt. Sounds a little Orwellian to me

[–]fiercelyfriendly 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Almost as Orwellian as taking young children against their will and forcibly mutilating them to conform.

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think you know what that word means...

[–]amanafart 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Going to the doctor is orwellian? Nah, all children should be required to undergo their respective ob/gyn or urologist exams.

[–]modernbenoni 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

Let's throw in male circumcision with that.

[–]CarlswaenMore than a star on someone else's flag 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Personally I would, but there are some circumstances where there can be real medical reasoning that justifies circumcision, like phimosis, so it's not quite the same in upholding or enforcing it, and there'd be workarounds for doctors so inclined.

That said as a conciliatory gesture I'd be perfectly happy allowing 18 year olds with their strong immune systems, bladder control, kidneys and livers suited to processing painkillers, opting for circumcision for whatever reason to have it all paid for on the NHS if they don't want to go through an unanesthetised mohel. And all the pain meds and antibiotics they want when they get out. The good stuff too; straight to the codeine and the free tickets to vivid-dreamland that comes with it. Sit on a cushion in your waking hours for a week playing XBOX, whilst friends and families ply you with takeout. Book time off work, or do it when uni breaks up for summer. At least they'll know what's going on and will be able to rationalise the discomfort. Babies in ammonia rich nappies, not so much.

If there's a religious concern that 18 year olds when they have their own minds and opinions wouldn't want to go through with it, then perhaps as a society we shouldn't be making the choice for them and forcing the decision before they have formed their own opinion, committing them to a religious practice before they have committed themselves to the religion. I'm sure Yahweh and all the superbestfriends of varying religions and cultures that practice it would understand if foreskin delivery is a bit late on account of a secular-law their followers disapprove of.

As a rule I agree. Taking a razor or a hot needle to a perfectly healthy infant or child should be considered wrong. As an non-coerced, consent giving adult then knock yourself out. I just don't see it as enforceable with male circumcision when they could claim there was one of several medical conditions that led to it when they were out of the country so not on their medical records. I don't know of any similar medical conditions with FGM - and as such never justifiable.

[–]amanafart [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Phimosis is perfectly treatable in most cases without circumcision. What other conditions are there?

[–]Timothy_Claypole 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

But wouldn't this sort of active checking be nanny state that libertarians would get upset over?

[–]CarlswaenMore than a star on someone else's flag 24ポイント25ポイント  (2子コメント)

Not with this social libertarian it wouldn't. Wrap it up in a duty of social care for minors. It's a health check in a safe environment.

Being a libertarian doesn't mean turning a blind eye to child abuse, but why the obsession with whether it sits well with libertarianism and not whether it is the right thing to do?

[–]itz4mnaLiberal Tory 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

I'd back this wholeheartedly.

[–]hey-upDenial is a leftist trait 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

It's been illegal since 1985. So far no prosecutions one prosecution, no convictions.

[–]itz4mnaLiberal Tory 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

That is a fucking disgrace if it's true, no amount of cultural relativism and hand-wringing can change the simple fact it is an evil, savage practice firmly under the heading of child abuse. It's literally grievous bodily harm with the intention of subjugating women.

Personally I'd go further than /u/Carlswaen and mandate the death penalty or at the very least life without parole in solitary confinement for anybody involved in the practice, nobody who thinks it's acceptable to mutilate young girls with a knife can be rehabilitated or deserves to live in my opinion.

[–]CarlswaenMore than a star on someone else's flag 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's true.

Well, there was one prosecution in February this year but it was acquitted. There have been no convictions. The only prosecution came when a London doctor delivered a baby from a woman that had previously had FGM in her native Somalia. He had to suture tears after the delivery and the hospital hadn't picked up that she'd already undergone FGM. So when it came to follow up care somebody else has seen a suture, FGM, and no mention of FGM on her medical records and had to report it to prevent the hospital getting the blame. It was dismissed by the jury in 30 minutes.

So essentially the one prosecution was someone watching their own back and confirming the hospital had nothing to do with it after they failed to make a note of it.

137,000 estimated cases in England and Wales. They've never gone after a single person who has actually carried any of it out.

[–]mallardtheduckCentrist 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

137,000 estimated cases in England and Wales.

That's 137,000 (estimated) women who currently live in the UK and have undergone the "procedure" at some point in their lives, not 137,000 procedures that have taken place in the UK. In fact, the study that the 137,000 number comes from only counted women who immigrated from countries where the procedure is common, no attempt was made to estimate the number of procedures carried out in the UK. That number is highly likely to be very small.

[–]CarlswaenMore than a star on someone else's flag 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fair enough, but the NHS has on their website that it is estimated that 20,000 girls under the age of 15 are at risk in the UK each year.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/female-genital-mutilation/Pages/Introduction.aspx

To be fair I think this is the sort of thing where we could be going for zero tolerance and the 20,000 girls in this generation considered at risk, and all the generations thereafter, should be reassured,
"Not on our watch. Not in the UK."

And even if it prevents just one. Worth it. But I'd be very concerned about the estimated 137,000 because they're coming from a culture which does it. If they've not broken the circle and still fall under a patriarchal or matriarchal figure it's their children that could be most at risk. That's potentially 137,000 families and extended families.

[–]hoffi_coffi 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You could stop a lot of things by devoting large amounts of time and resources to them and imposing harsh punishments for breaking the law or even refusing or missing certain checks though. Plus presumably it would need to be across the board rather than certain communities or religions.

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

Theres something pretty weird about proposing regular genital inspection for kids.

[–]CarlswaenMore than a star on someone else's flag 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

It would be weird if someone was proposing the Parent Teachers Association carried out the tests or if someone was calling for them on a quarterly basis. You don't have to sexualise everything. It starts off as an accompanied trained medical professional changing a nappy with a parent in the room...

Plus how many more situations of abuse might it catch or prevent, and not just FGM? Medical professions could also use it to coach when and what touching/examination is inappropriate, whether it has happened, and how to report it and who they can report it to if it does.

I'd also speculate that if it was seen more normal to have such healthchecks every few or several years or so in children, and it's seen as more just a thing like pap smear and breastscans later on in life, then in their later teens and adult life we might catch a few more STDs and cancers if we build the thinking that it's not weird and you don't have to feel awkward to get checked out or to talk to your doctor about bits of anatomy socially we're not supposed to talk about.

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think theres something about it that goes against what children are taught these days about having agency over their own bodies. Genital examination should really just be something that happens if theres a serious issue that warrants overriding individual agency, it shouldn't be routine like going for a checkup at the dentist.

Also, we should have some perspective here. FGM affects such a small part of the population, that blanked genital screening like this is overkill.

[–]translucunt 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Profiling for inspection would be a minefield, imagine the discussions it would spark on here. No one would want their kid to go through it because of such a small %age of offenders.

[–]mallardtheduckCentrist 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Same thing with FGM it's on such a vast scale

Actually, it isn't on a "vast scale" in the UK. The vast majority of cases reported in the UK are women who have immigrated after having the "procedure" in their home countries. I can't find any studies that attempt to estimate the number of procedures that take place in the UK, but I found a figure of 118 "reports" in the West Midlands in 2014; scaling that for the entire population of the UK results in 1,350. Still far higher than the ideal zero (and there's no way to know how many of those "reports" are actual, happened-in-the-UK cases), but hardly a "vast scale".

[–]Sharwdry -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well firstly, when you say multicultural dream it's quite transparent - they'll even tell you, that they don't support multiculturalism. Secondly, a big chunk of these people are actually British, covering up the behaviour. Thirdly just take a look at Lord Janner and operation ewe tree to see that this isn't a uniquely immigrant led activity - nor is the cover up.

[–]JunkoZane 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lord Janner, the son of Russian-Jewish immigrants, you mean? That Lord Janner?

[–]El_Nombre_OccupadoPointless Opinion ... like yours -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

their multicultural dream is our living nightmare.

Who's? Should we not endevour to be multicultural because of a small percentage being the lowest of the low? I don't think this is anyone's "dream".

[–]ProfessorZ00MI do not have the right not to do so[S] 19ポイント20ポイント  (53子コメント)

The agency said two of those under investigation were serving or former Rotherham councillors.

How much do you want to bet these are labour councillors?

December in the wake of the Jay report which found 1,400 children were abused from 1997 to 2013.

The Jay Report found children as young as 11 were sexually exploited by gangs of men, mainly of Pakistani origin, and revealed systemic failures in local council scrutiny, governance, and leadership.

A Home Office researcher who wrote a report into child sexual abuse in the town claimed the organisation had documents taken from its offices by an unknown person.

Reminder that labour covered it up.

[–]teenyweenytempahit depends 13ポイント14ポイント  (9子コメント)

How much do you want to bet these are labour councillors?

Seeing as it's Rotherham, there's a high chance. But why does being a Labour councillor make you more likely to be a paedophile?

[–]whistdrive 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/722627.councillor_gives_reference_for_paedophile/

Coun Salim Mulla spoke up for a sex offender of the same name before he was jailed for three years for sexual assault and inciting a child under the age of 13 to engage in sexual activities.

"To give someone who has pleaded guilty to sexually assaulting children a reference is madness.

"Someone who sits on the management board of a children's centre should not be giving references for a child sex offender."

[–]ShitfacePhil 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Labour seem more likely to pander to minority groups if I'm honest. I can imagine how in their desperation to court a certain demographic they ended up bringing in some extremely corrupt members of said community.

I wouldn't say Labour councillors are more likely to rape by virtue of being Labour. The Tories have their fair share of rapist types after all.

[–]commenian 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Labour have been subject to entryism on a massive scale in the former mill towns of the West Riding and East Lancashire by Muslim communities, that's why. They basically looked the other way while these crimes were ongoing so as not to jeopardise their Muslim postal voting factories.

[–]ProfessorZ00MI do not have the right not to do so[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

Same reason Harriet Harman, the acting leader of the Labour Party. Worked with the paedophiles information exchange and campaigned for the age of consent to be abolished.

[–]hey-upDenial is a leftist trait 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

[Citation needed]

Clue: Was employed as a lawyer by the Council for Civil Liberties (now Liberty), to which PIE were briefly affiliated.

[–]ProfessorZ00MI do not have the right not to do so[S] 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harriet_Harman#Paedophile_Information_Exchange_allegations_and_response

[–]Baelor_the_BlessedVote Green Party 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Do you actually read the links that you post?

[–]SleepyDustKing 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's a professor bro. The man clearly knows what he's talking about... /s

[–]yetieaterif the rich are extruded via a needle, do camels enter heaven? 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

So no reason then, given that those aren't actual things that happened.

[–]BadgerGecko 2ポイント3ポイント  (41子コメント)

Tories also covered it up

so did Lib Dems

Reminder that GOVERMENT/MI15/MI6/POLICE/SOCIAL SERVICES ETC covered it up

This is bigger than ONE party

[–]ShitLordXuriousDenial is a leftist trait 6ポイント7ポイント  (40子コメント)

Rotherham has been Labour controlled for decades.

[–]BadgerGecko -5ポイント-4ポイント  (39子コメント)

Your point being?

[–]ShitLordXuriousDenial is a leftist trait 4ポイント5ポイント  (38子コメント)

Leftists can never accept responsibility for their own failings, they always have to deflect, try to blame someone else, and carry on doing exactly the same as before, regardless of the facts.

[–]CencusTAnarcho-Communist 3ポイント4ポイント  (14子コメント)

Rightists will use anything in order to score political points even though their hands are hardly clean on the matter. The whole my party fucked less kids than your party bollocks just sickens me. All political parties have had active child molesters in their ranks (possibly with the excepton of the SNP as yet to see one of these stories linked to them but I believe it is only a matter of time & maybe the greens as well).

[–]ShitLordXuriousDenial is a leftist trait 10ポイント11ポイント  (12子コメント)

Labour still control Rotherham.

Muslims are still raping underage girls in Rotherham.

Somehow, you - as a leftist - will try to blame this on someone else.

[–]BadgerGecko 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

So back to my original comment

This is bigger than ONE party

Don't bring left and right into it. I want to get justice for the childeren that were abused and I want to make sure those in power never get away with such things again.

If you would rather make this a left right arguement. Then you have serious moral issues

[–]DemonEggyDirty foreigner, here to subvert your democracy 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Everything is a left-right argument with Shitlord. Well, everything is a Leftist argument with Shitlord.

[–]Lazyrel 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I wonder what the % of his written work on reddit includes 'leftist' followed by some foam-mouthed vitriol...

[–]ShitLordXuriousDenial is a leftist trait 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Don't bring left and right into it.

This is the standard leftist response when their ideology and principles have lead to failure.

[–]CencusTAnarcho-Communist -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Somehow, you - as a leftist - will try to blame this on someone else

at what point do I blame anyone else for this shit. In this case and many others the labour party are to some degree responsable in others it's the tories or the libdems, my point is that they are all at it, every single one of them, every single party has been involved to some degree in having their members fuck kids.

I hate when people try to use this sort of shit as political capital.

[–]Jameslepable -4ポイント-3ポイント  (4子コメント)

Somehow, you - as a rightist(?) - will try to blame this on "left wing" ideology. Instead of the reality of the situation where not only did people look the other way, they are God damn complicit in the actions.

[–]ShitLordXuriousDenial is a leftist trait 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Even the official report said political correctness was to blame.

[–]logicalmaniakProgressive Social Constitutional Democratic Techno-Anarchy 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

So the Rotherham scandal was caused by leftism?

Does that mean the Elm Guest house, Jimmy Saville, and Leon Brittan's dossier, were all caused by right-wing ideology?

[–]DemonEggyDirty foreigner, here to subvert your democracy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, it says it was one of the factors.

[–]oneonetwooneonetwo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If nothing else, you can fight about it as a party political issue all you like after you fix it.

[–]DemonEggyDirty foreigner, here to subvert your democracy -1ポイント0ポイント  (22子コメント)

LEFTISTS!!!

[–]hey-upDenial is a leftist trait -3ポイント-2ポイント  (21子コメント)

LEFTIST RAPE GANGS!!!!

Too soon?

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist -5ポイント-4ポイント  (19子コメント)

*holsters ray gun*

[–]ProfessorZ00MI do not have the right not to do so[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (17子コメント)

You were the type to march with the UAF in rotherham against the "racist lies being propagated around Asian child sex abuse", did the discovery that what so many of us already knew was true even give a twinge of doubt in your mind that the glorious multicultural utopia you long for is nothing more than a nightmare?

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

Oh I was, was I?

[–]hey-upDenial is a leftist trait -2ポイント-1ポイント  (10子コメント)

What's happening here is that people are deconstructing your arguments by replying at what they regard as the same level of discourse.

Do you understand what the references to Muslamic Rayguns guy mean in that context?

[–]hey-upDenial is a leftist trait -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Last time a thread went in this direction:

The blood of thousands of innocent English schoolgirls is upon the likes of you and your ilk.

Very Freudian.

[–]teenyweenytempahit depends -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Too soon.

[–]hey-upDenial is a leftist trait -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

[Citation needed]

[–]Aspley_Heath 17ポイント18ポイント  (79子コメント)

7,912 is the population of people with a Pakistan/Kashmiri background in Rotherham as of 2011. Assuming that all these suspects are Rotherhamites, this is quite a big chunk of the population. Especially once you consider that half of those are male bringing it down too 3,956. Many of those males are under the age of 18, so lets remove 1000 from that figure we get a figure at 2,956 men who are in the age bracket for this sort of crime.

That's 10% of Rotherham's Pakistani origin men. These crimes were an open secret and the whole community was complicit in it.

This is why the Labour Party needs to be destroyed.

[–]yetieaterif the rich are extruded via a needle, do camels enter heaven? 37ポイント38ポイント  (69子コメント)

Assuming that 100% of CSE suspects are Pakistani/Kashmiri is likely to be the first flaw in your thought process, followed by the assumption that all suspects live in Rotherham itself, followed by the assumption that under 18s couldn't be abusers (this isn't at all the case).

That's 10% of Rotherham's Pakistani origin men. These crimes were an open secret and the whole community was complicit in it.

As I point out, your calculations are fundamentally flawed. Your conclusion is also hugely flawed, and reaches the conclusion you always wanted.

This is why the Labour Party needs to be destroyed.

And there's your agenda. It ain't about protecting kids, or helping victims, it's all about the political points you can score.

[–]Kiwi_the_Magnificent(҂｀ﾛ´)︻デ═一 UKIP Defence Force＼(º □ º l|l)/ 9ポイント10ポイント  (5子コメント)

It ain't about protecting kids, or helping victims, it's all about the political points you can score.

Are you suggesting that it isn't political?

[–]DemonEggyDirty foreigner, here to subvert your democracy 19ポイント20ポイント  (3子コメント)

I think he's suggesting that to some on this sub, it's only political, and they don't actually give a fuck about anything except the Muslims and the leftists.

[–]yetieaterif the rich are extruded via a needle, do camels enter heaven? 21ポイント22ポイント  (1子コメント)

Exactly. I would add that if the first impulse you have when reading about child abuse is to see advantage for your political position, you're a fucking monster.

I'm looking at you ShitLordXurious, yes.

[–]Lazyrel 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a ritual for this sub; the weekly Rotheram thread goes up, ShitLordXurious + karma brigade dutifully post the exact same swivel eyed bollocks trying to conflate the entire world's population that leans to the left in child abuse, idiocy ensues, the cycle continues...

[–]Kiwi_the_Magnificent(҂｀ﾛ´)︻デ═一 UKIP Defence Force＼(º □ º l|l)/ 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fair enough.

I was thinking too black and white for a moment.

[–]yetieaterif the rich are extruded via a needle, do camels enter heaven? 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm suggesting that attempting to distort events for maximum political gain is cynical and shows the distorting person doesn't care about preventing future abuse because if they did, they'd want an accurate account of events.

[–]whistdrive 1ポイント2ポイント  (18子コメント)

That's 10% of Rotherham's Pakistani origin men. These crimes were an open secret and the whole community was complicit in it.

As I point out, your calculations are fundamentally flawed. Your conclusion is also hugely flawed, and reaches the conclusion you always wanted.

The only flaw is assuming that they're all from Rotherham. But the conclusion still holds:

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/rotherham-final-nail-in-the-coffin-of-multiculturalism/

according to Parveen Qureshi, the director of the United Multicultural Centre there, was that ‘Muslim leaders were fully aware of the problem, but did nothing’. These crimes were widely discussed between Muslim leaders who, ‘talked in Mosques, but not to the police’ while they were privately ‘trying to resolve the problem’.

They networked openly amongst their family, friends, and coworkers; they were 'the talk of the town' amongst the taxi drivers.

[–]yetieaterif the rich are extruded via a needle, do camels enter heaven? 1ポイント2ポイント  (17子コメント)

Your source does not appear to be the most reliable. Brietbart level in fact.

The circulation of rumors regarding abuse amongst Muslim leaders isn't massively surprising, but let's be honest, who could they have gone to to stop it? South Yorkshire police knew more about it than community leaders did, but they pulled the plug on any investigations.

[–]whistdrive 1ポイント2ポイント  (16子コメント)

Your source does not appear to be the most reliable. Brietbart level in fact.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2736995/Muslim-leaders-fully-aware-problem-did-Pakistani-community-worker-makes-explosive-claims-religious-leaders-talked-mosques-not-police.html

Speaking to BBC Radio Sheffield, she said: ‘It was discussed, a discussion was going on in the community with community leaders and organisations and other agencies who were aware of what was happening and were trying to resolve the problem.’

‘Whispering was going on in the community,’ she said.

And then the Daily Mail bullet points, if we can assume the quotey parts are not just made up:

She said religious leaders were 'contacted by agencies about the abuses'

But they 'discussed it at the mosque' rather than going to the police

Yeah, short of a BBC Radio Sheffield transcript that's the best I'm going to do.

[–]yetieaterif the rich are extruded via a needle, do camels enter heaven? 1ポイント2ポイント  (15子コメント)

As I said, the circulation of rumors regarding abuse amongst Muslim leaders isn't massively surprising, but who could they have gone to to stop it? South Yorkshire police knew more about it than community leaders did, but they pulled the plug on any investigations.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have dealt with it differently, but it's a mistake to believe their actions would have changed anything unless they were publicly denouncing CSE and making a huge story out of it, but then there's a real risk that if the claims turned out to be mere rumours they would look like they'd done the wrong thing. You've also got to remember that they won't have had statistical reports or anything, the connections between cases and the true scale is likely to have been unknown, even if community leaders knew something was going on.

[–]whistdrive 1ポイント2ポイント  (14子コメント)

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/29/-sp-untold-story-culture-of-shame-ruzwana-bashir paints a picture in which it isn't just the police who are useless; Asians victims are discouraged by their own communities from going to the police because of 'shame'.

That said, if political correctness was a factor in police inaction on grooming gangs then perhaps hearing it from Muslim leaders rather than just the victims themselves could have assuaged police worries.

[–]yetieaterif the rich are extruded via a needle, do camels enter heaven? 3ポイント4ポイント  (13子コメント)

Asians victims are discouraged by their own communities from going to the police because of 'shame'.

I'm not denying this is a problem, but a lot of victims of child abuse are discouraged from going to the police and their accounts ignored, that isn't just an Asian problem. Grooming of the family as well as the victim occurs, and often leads to the victim being punished for claiming abuse.

if political correctness was a factor in police inaction on grooming gangs

if it was a factor, it wasn't the primary one. It just wasn't given priority

"The money [for tackling CSE] was re-allocated to meet Home Office targets and failing to meet them would have harmed the force's reputation"

Meanwhile another former South Yorkshire officer has told the BBC that some attempts to reduce prioritised crimes were highly misleading and lacking in transparency.

The officer, who does not want to be identified, said distortion of the figures had been "happening every day". Experienced detectives were prevented from recording certain crimes and instead had to submit a report with specially-created units deciding how it would be catalogued, he claimed.

He said: "They (officers in those units) would go to a meeting in the morning and the senior officer would say: 'How many robberies did we have yesterday?'

"Instead of there being eight reports of robberies, it would be: 'Well we had two' because they would have managed to (reduce it). They'd 'no crime' it, or they'd go back to the original complainant, get additional statements, and pressurise them to withdraw the complaint."

One example he recalls is a gang member shooting five bullets at a woman through her kitchen window, from a distance of about six feet.

Instead of the incident being recorded as attempted murder, it was marked down as "criminal damage to a window", he said.

They weren't worried about political correctness, they were just shit and trying to make themselves look better by hiding crime.

[–]whistdrive 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

I now definitely have nothing but contempt for the police over this. But re 'community complicity' as discussed at the top of this thread--regardless of police inaction, I don't think it bodes well for 'community cohesion' that there were so few in the Muslim community we could point to as people who spoke up. There was even a Muslim-owned hotel (not in Rotherham) where abuse would happen and staff would erase the ledger afterwards. It's like--who didn't know what was going on? I mean, if someone working in a chippy, rather than a kebab shop, says 'Hey, fancy a 12-year old?' how long would it be before this nonce got his head caved in?

[–]yetieaterif the rich are extruded via a needle, do camels enter heaven? 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

I now definitely have nothing but contempt for the police over this.

Indeed. Other forces cooperated and did so much more. Mistakes were made, but they were learned from, not covered up.

I mean, if someone working in a chippy, rather than a kebab shop, says 'Hey, fancy a 12-year old?' how long would it be before this nonce got his head caved in?

A reasonable point, the pattern of abuse has certainly shown certain gang-style behaviours. A key aspect of abuse is breaking down of barriers of conscience regarding empathy for the victim, and the difference in race and culture did play a factor in the abuse going unchallenged within the groups of abusers, I would say.

[–]hoffi_coffi 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Great excuse though.

"What terrible Police work, why didn't they do their jobs!"

"We were afraid we would get called racist!"

"Fair enough, let's blame the PC brigade instead!"

Why isn't it "what a shit excuse, the police lock up minorities all the bloody time, sort yourselves out".

[–]yetieaterif the rich are extruded via a needle, do camels enter heaven? 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Great excuse though.

Sadly true. It helps that those who hate the PC brigade instinctively protect the police.

Why isn't it "what a shit excuse, the police lock up minorities all the bloody time, sort yourselves out".

That's not far off what Vaz said:

During terse exchanges, Mr Vaz said: "The committee doesn't accept that you didn't know anything about child grooming in your area."

He said the former chief constable's claims of ignorance were "impossible to believe".

Mr Hughes said to the "best of his memory" he had not seen three of the four reports that highlighted the problem of child grooming in Rotherham during the period he was chief constable.

[–]Aspley_Heath 8ポイント9ポイント  (31子コメント)

I don't except your first point. The figures for those 300 suspects are almost all Pakistani Muslim. I agree that the "all live in Rotherham" point is a small leap of faith.

But I don't think my back of an envelope analysis is that far off.

And there's your agenda. It ain't about protecting kids, or helping victims, it's all about the political points you can score.

Identifying the problems which led to these things is very important in ensuring it doesn't happen again. Heavy Labour participation in the council and a type of ultra politically correct thinking which is exclusive to the left had permeated the authorities in charge of protecting vulnerable children. The local Labour party does share the blame in all this.

[–]yetieaterif the rich are extruded via a needle, do camels enter heaven? 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

But I don't think my back of an envelope analysis is that far off.

I would wager it's off by a factor of between 3 to 10. past evidence indicates that Pakistani Muslims will probably make up a maximum of half of suspects, and given that a noted aspect of CSE has been trafficking between gangs, the geography of suspects is likely at least as far as Manchester and Nottingham.

The local Labour party does share the blame in all this.

Yes, it does.

So do others. Since 2003 south Yorkshire police knew it was going on. They refused to act, repeatedly.

Blaming it on political correctness is a blatant lie, being PC wouldn't cause police officers to threaten government researchers, burgle their offices, and certainly wouldn't explain how in neighbouring Sheffield where the council spent the best part of a decade demanding the police act, including paying for a operation which was swiftly disbanded by senior officers, the police also failed to act.

42 officers are being investigated by the ipcc. Quite recently I think it was only 12. Something is very wrong with south Yorkshire police.

[–]whistdrive 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

past evidence indicates that Pakistani Muslims will probably make up a maximum of half of suspects

Not half, but 75%+. You are not reading the report correctly. Also, it's 75% based on 31 police forces from all across the country (so they may not be in areas with sizeable Asian populations) not on Rotherham, so it could be even higher than 75%. You're touting very wrong numbers.

Blaming it on political correctness is a blatant lie

What do you call telling a social worker she must 'never, ever' speak of the evidence she has that it's a majority-Asian problem and sending her for 'diversity training'?

[–]yetieaterif the rich are extruded via a needle, do camels enter heaven? 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Of the 52 groups for which usable ethnicity data was provided, 26 (50%) comprised all Asian offenders, 11 (21%) all white offenders, 9 (17%) groups comprised offenders from multiple ethnicities, 4 (8%) comprised all black offenders and there were 2 (4%) groups of exclusively Arab offenders.

75% applies only to their 'type' 1 offenders, not all offenders. I may be reading it incorrectly, however.

What do you call telling a social worker she must 'never, ever' speak of the evidence she has that it's a majority-Asian problem and sending her for 'diversity training'?

I call it irrelevant once the police receive a report on abuse. There was issues in Rotherham Council, and arguably up til maybe 2003, they could be argued to be the main problem. But when the police receive a report of serious widespread criminality in 2003, the blame for inaction becomes clearly on them.

[–]Aspley_Heath 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

I would wager it's off by a factor of between 3 to 10.

Now whose pulling figures out of their arse...

Blaming it on political correctness is a blatant lie

You're wrong. A fear of confronting this CSE was because it was deemed to harm "community relations" and that's obviously a far worse crime then stopping child rape.

And I never said anything like: "PC is the ONLY factor in Rotherham's CSE", it is one among many, one which I regularly see the left downplay and forgot. Numerous efforts to rewrite that those shocking revelations which are now 10 months old...

[–]yetieaterif the rich are extruded via a needle, do camels enter heaven? 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're wrong. A fear of confronting this CSE was because it was deemed to harm "community relations" and that's obviously a far worse crime then stopping child rape.

Nope, police were concentrating on other crimes and specifically cancelled investigations into CSE because they were focussing on improving their scores on KPIs. That ain't being PC, it's just not giving a shit.

[–]DemonEggyDirty foreigner, here to subvert your democracy 1ポイント2ポイント  (25子コメント)

How come I've not seen a single person on this sub (apart from a few of those horrible Leftists) talk about any of the other issues than race? Nobody talks about the girls not being believed, about social workers ignoring their cries because they were known "troublemakers". That has just as much of an impact here, but because it suggests there is more to this than Muslim Rape Gangs, and maybe social class and gender is important too, it gets utterly ignored by those with an anti-Muslim agenda.

[–]commenian 10ポイント11ポイント  (18子コメント)

Because the ultimate cause of these problems was the fact that Pakistani Muslim men raped and enslaved these girls, not social workers or the police or politicians (well maybe in the last two cases where some of these were also Pakistani Muslim men).

The failures of the authorities concerned were of negligence and incompetence all too often motivated by fear of the consequences of offending the said community, whereas those of the perpetrators were of intent and were motivated by pure evil instilled by a deeply malignant supremacist culture. People can recognise this instinctively themselves, even why you choose to hector them as racist for doing so. In your through the looking glass world those who detest the racist/religious culture of these men are racist themselves for doing so.

[–]DemonEggyDirty foreigner, here to subvert your democracy 0ポイント1ポイント  (17子コメント)

Exactly. Completely ignore everything but race.

[–]commenian 3ポイント4ポイント  (16子コメント)

Race and religious supremacism are the ultimate cause here of these crimes. The other factors are merely proximate causes. In reality you are the one who is obsessed with race. It is you who screams racist at those who are in reality anti-racists.

[–]DemonEggyDirty foreigner, here to subvert your democracy 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

The girls weren't believed, because they came from troubled backgrounds. Read the Jay report. This sub is utterly obsessed with the racial factors in this case (which are no doubt massive), but refuses to look beyond that.

[–]MiKe1100123 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

How about you read the Jay report as you obviously haven't as it explicitly states the fear of being called racist was a factor.

By far the majority of the perpetrators were described as ‘Asian’ by victims, yet councillors did not engage directly with the Pakistani heritage community to discuss how best they could jointly address the issue. Several staff described their nervousness about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought racist, and others remembered clear directions from their managers not to do so.

http://lutonlscb.org.uk/child_12_999176463.pdf

[–]DemonEggyDirty foreigner, here to subvert your democracy 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

How about you read my post, which you obviously haven't.

This sub is utterly obsessed with the racial factors in this case (which are no doubt massive), but refuses to look beyond that.

[–]Lazyrel 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

'which are no doubt massive'

[–]yetieaterif the rich are extruded via a needle, do camels enter heaven? -5ポイント-4ポイント  (11子コメント)

Race and religious supremacism are the ultimate cause here of these crimes.

Nope. If Rotherham had had zero pakistani muslims, they'd still have been abused most likely, because they were incredibly vulnerable, and the police decided to abandon their jobs. Someone was going to take advantage, and believe it or not rates of child abuse aren't actually very different between various ethnicities. Once the police opted out, it was just a question of who ended up abusing the girls, not if they would get abused,

[–]commenian 8ポイント9ポイント  (9子コメント)

Bullshit! People do not take advantage of these children under normal conditions. Otherwise every town in the land would have been subject to Rotherham style atrocities. They have not and that is why people are so shocked, that in this country there are actually places where these crimes could occur and amongst communities where this behaviour is not frowned upon.

[–]yetieaterif the rich are extruded via a needle, do camels enter heaven? 0ポイント1ポイント  (8子コメント)

People do not take advantage of these children under normal conditions.

Yes, they do. Roughly 1 in 20 children suffers some form of sexual abuse, from memory. NSPCC or Barnardos reports give detailed figures.

Otherwise every town in the land would have been subject to Rotherham style atrocities

Most offenders aren't organised on-street abusers. Most abuse is committed by an older teen or young adult, followed by other family members or friend of the family. These girls might not have been abused in exactly the same ways, necessarily, but they were exceptionally vulnerable. Entire families are groomed, and thus don't believe their own children if the dare accuse.

Looking then at ethnicity, as described in the CEOP report on on-street abuse, on-street CSE is perpetrated by roughly 50% Southeast Asians, 21% of whites. However, in the cases where abuse was motivated by sexual interest in children (as opposed to opportunistic targeting based on vulnerability) all cases involved exclusively white people.

This is an unusual type of abuse, but abuse itself is going on far more than people realise.

[–]whistdrive 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

it was just a question of who ended up abusing the girls, not if they would get abused

So you're saying Asians just somehow got to them first? Something like 1,400 out of (very approximately) 14,000--or 1 in 10--girls in Rotherham were victims of mostly Asian on-street grooming gangs, which could well be higher than the rate of abuse you'd see committed by whites that aren't running on-street grooming gangs. What's your reasoning?

Edit: could be closer to 1 in 20.

[–]BashFishAttractive Woman 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

talks about the girls not being believed, about social workers ignoring their cries

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11069178/Rotherham-researcher-sent-on-diversity-course-after-raising-alarm.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-29012571

lets talk about those horrible leftists of the labour party, and how they buried this nightmare they created by penalising those who dared to speak out and destroying the evidence. lets talk about that issue

[–]DemonEggyDirty foreigner, here to subvert your democracy -3ポイント-2ポイント  (3子コメント)

We do talk about that. All the fucking time. That is my point. That is all we talk about.

[–]BashFishAttractive Woman 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

and we should continue to do so every day until action is taken; there must be justice. though if you see above, you were whining that those with 'an anti-Muslim agenda' who could not see beyond 'issues other than race', and not the repeated failings of the horrible leftists

[–]DemonEggyDirty foreigner, here to subvert your democracy -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

And ignore the other issues involved?

[–]BashFishAttractive Woman 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

like the labour administered public services failing?

of course its a sum of many factors but there is one definite central problem here

[–]hey-upDenial is a leftist trait 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maybe because the same lot would call the victims (if they didn't know them as victims) "chavs".

[–]BashFishAttractive Woman 3ポイント4ポイント  (11子コメント)

destroying the labour party means that they wont be around to let this continue. that is protecting children

why is holding the failings of the labour party to task 'point scoring'? i know if children under my care were subject to systemic sexual abuse (that i was even complicit in), i wouldnt get a promotion http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/howard-woolfenden-birmingham-city-council-8618091 or a bonus http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/rotherham-child-abuse-scandal-shamed-4460883

[–]IncredibleBertStudent. (rampant leftie, opinion invalid) 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Should we destroy every political party that harms children indirectly? What with Iain Duncan Smith trying to block the release of statistics into child poverty, and with David Cameron wanting to change the definition of it to bend statistics, maybe we should destroy the conservative party as well?

[–]BashFishAttractive Woman 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

indirectly? telford, rochdale, rotherham, sheffield, birmingham, oxford, bristol, petersborough. all labour holds, all with the same problem, labour councillors facilitating systemic child abuse http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11069178/Rotherham-researcher-sent-on-diversity-course-after-raising-alarm.html, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-29012571 and so on. thousands of cases of labour councils sacrificing children under their care. this is a labour problem

so, theres nothing indirect about it, though yes the current conservative party needs a quick death but for other reasons

[–]Lazyrel 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

In other words, a national issue that ubiquitously happens to fall in extremely deprived areas all around the country is the fault of the underfunded local councils incidentally in each and every instance?

Do you seriously not see how you might be using this as ammunition to confirm your bias as opposed to making an honest assessment of the situation?

[–]SleepyDustKing -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

No matter what you, I, or anyone else says, people like him will rationalise their beliefs because it is wsy too painful to admit their worldview is flawed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivated_reasoning

But yeh, "leftists" , init. They're to blame for everything apparently.

[–]yetieaterif the rich are extruded via a needle, do camels enter heaven? -5ポイント-4ポイント  (6子コメント)

destroying the labour party means that they wont be around to let this continue. that is protecting children

You're a cretin.

why is holding the failings of the labour party to task 'point scoring'? i know if children under my care were subject to systemic sexual abuse (that i was even complicit in), i wouldnt get a promotion

Because they are ignoring the actual factors that let the abuse continue. By doing this, you allow abuse to happen in the future. Your lies contribute to future abuse of children.

Congratulations, you'll get some karma off fellow Kippers, I hope that helps you sleep at night.

[–]BashFishAttractive Woman 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

no u

actual factors like, the labour party intimidating those who attempted to solve the problem (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11069178/Rotherham-researcher-sent-on-diversity-course-after-raising-alarm.html)? the labour party destroying the evidence (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-29012571)? the labour party allowing the same thing to happen in at least 8 other councils? is all this 'lies'? by denying that your ideology is at fault, and it is as we can all see, YOU allow this to continue

you betray your own motives when you immediately complain of 'point scoring' when youre own turgidity is exposed; you care about how this affects your ideology's position in the world, so you would rather criticism be verboten. i would ask how defending known paedophile enablers helps you sleep at night, but ofc youre just fighting the good fight against all those evil racists and nazi kippers. youll never accept even the possible that you could be at fault

you are blinded by your own egoistical need for moral superiority

[–]yetieaterif the rich are extruded via a needle, do camels enter heaven? 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

the labour party allowing the same thing to happen in at least 8 other councils? is all this 'lies'? by denying that your ideology is at fault, and it is as we can all see, YOU allow this to continue

In the other councils very different actions were taken, and lessons learned from places that were succeeding in preventing CSE. For example, lessons learned in Rochdale and Greater Manchester were passed on to Police in Oxford. However, South Yorkshire Police refused to act, even when Sheffield council actually paid them extra money to do their damn jobs.

You may note that a researcher was actually threatened by off-duty police.

But yeah, clearly in the 10 fucking years the police sat on a report of serious crime happening under their noses, with council staff from a neighbouring (Labour) authority having to beg them to act in the slightest, clearly it was the job of a bunch of councillors to go vigilante and clean up rotherham themselves. The Council fucked up, yes, and local politicians fucked up, yes. But neither of those groups control the police, and neither of those groups have a responsibility to stop crime in the same way the police do.

So yeah, not many folk in Rotherham come out looking good. But given that next door in Sheffield they were banging on about CSE to the same police and nothing happened, I'm not sure that if Rotherham Council hadn't fucked up that the same crimes wouldn't have happened anyway.

you betray your own motives when you immediately complain of 'point scoring'

No, it makes me sick to see shitweasels like yourself lying about the causes of abuse and hampering future efforts to prevent it.

you are blinded by your own egoistical need for moral superiority

I see you clearly son. And i'm fucking disgusted with what i see.

[–]BashFishAttractive Woman 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

the researcher who compiled the 2001 report faced punitive measures at her workplace by her employer, the council. she was demoted and blackballed, and her report was destroyed by, the council. tell me, what positive steps did the rotherham council take? and i wouldnt call the willful facilitation of continued and systemic sexual abuse of children a 'fuck up', thats quite an understatement dont you think?

point out my lies, ive shown you your 'hampering'

yeah fight me at lan, im very upset to be denigrated by a nonce enabler lol

[–]yetieaterif the rich are extruded via a needle, do camels enter heaven? -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

point out my lies, ive shown you your 'hampering'

This shit for starters:

the researcher who compiled the 2001 report faced punitive measures at her workplace by her employer, the council. she was demoted and blackballed, and her report was destroyed by, the council. tell me, what positive steps did the rotherham council take? and i wouldnt call the willful facilitation of continued and systemic sexual abuse of children a 'fuck up', thats quite an understatement dont you think?

Lets be honest, you aren't addressing the issues I raise because you don't give a shit about what happened. You care that you can slam Labour and that is it. You couldn't care less about the victims, about the systems that let them down and how we can do better in future. No, the solution is to hate Labour and Brown people, cos then it won't happen again.

Except it will, you piece of shit. Because you're diverting blame away from those who most fucked up, and left to people like you it'll happen again, and again.

[–]BashFishAttractive Woman 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

ahaha

point out my lies

'ok i will'

'youre a racist and dont care about victims'

i will bash labour because theyre at fault. you will never accept responsibility. i appreciate the classic leftist attack 'you hate brown people you racist' though, when i havent mentioned race, religion or creed once. youre falling apart, refusing to address the core problem directly, offering up obliquely related cases that do not counter the core problem here and random emotional outbursts

and the next leftist classic, accuse the other whilst doing it yourself

youre trash

[–]yetieaterif the rich are extruded via a needle, do camels enter heaven? -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

So, ballbag, who bears responsibility for investigating a crime once it is reported to the police?

[–]Manic_MinerDistributist 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is why the Labour Party needs to be destroyed.

The mouth breathing cattle of Rotherham clearly disagree since they voted them back in. They made their bed.

[–]twersxpoliticalcompass is useless 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Males under the age of 18 are capable of participating in CSE.

You are also making a bunch of assumptions and instead of presenting it as food for thought you blame it all on the Labour Party and present it as conclusive proof they "need to be destroyed"

[–]Aspley_Heath 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

Males under the age of 18 are capable of participating in CSE.

You can probably add pubescent lads to that figure and take away the OAPs and homosexuals as well...still I don't think my back of the envelope analysis is far off...

[–]lets_chill_dude -4ポイント-3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Hey dude, from a gay guy, it's okay just to refer to us as "gay people"; calling us homosexuals makes you sound little like a psychologist from the '50s :p

Anyhoo, why do you say that Labour should be destroyed? Wouldn't it be better for it to be reformed? Or would you never be able to vote them again anyway?

[–]niftykettlesPro Commonwealth, Pro UKIP 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I personally will never vote for Labour in my life after this and the illegal war in Iraq (yes I know it was backed cross party)

[–]oliethefolieProsecco Socialist 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

You make it sound like there was a massive conspiracy going all the way up to Tony Blair.

[–]ProfessorZ00MI do not have the right not to do so[S] 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well...

"Rotherham child sex abuse scandal: Labour Home Office to be probed over what Tony Blair's government knew - and when"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rotherham-child-sex-abuse-scandal-labour-home-office-to-be-probed-over-what-tony-blairs-government-knew--and-when-9701861.html

[–]SpudgunnCyberunionist 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

You could almost say it was a driving political purpose, to make Britain truly multicultural, to rub the right's nose in diversity.

[–]El_Nombre_OccupadoPointless Opinion ... like yours -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

What complete nonsense. Lets ignore this, this and this and base our whole opinion on slanted figures.

[–]PeterG92 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

If people are involved then do not let them get off lightly. Do not repeat the same mistakes as the past.

[–]Mike737 2ポイント3ポイント  (36子コメント)

How long until its expanded to "Every Muslim in Rotheram"

[–]AwsumoIf you don't agree with me entirely then you're an evil Nazi 10ポイント11ポイント  (28子コメント)

When you start getting into the hundreds you have to recognize that many other people would of known. They simply couldn't of recruited that many without half of the community knowing about it.
I mean dear G*d, you'd have to put posters everywhere to get half that many interested in a local cricket team - and I would hope that the average person would be more likely to be interested in that.

[–]CarlswaenMore than a star on someone else's flag 16ポイント17ポイント  (27子コメント)

It's a cultural and regional problem that preexists its presence in the UK.

In Pakistan we have W.ar A.gainst R.ape where they recognise that there are regional cultural issues and an institutional policy of denial when it comes to the police and judiciary. This is Pakistan saying it itself. From W.A.R.'s own research they've found that 50% of the victims are under the age of 16, with the ages running all the way down similar to what we've seen in Rotherham, Blackburn, etc. So culturally in parts of the world it is fair to say they like them young. Younger than what we consider decent in the UK.

What we've done by promoting multi-culturalism instead of inter-culturalism is we've told people from certain Pakistani regions and cultures that when they come to the UK they don't have to integrate which we can see by the demographic dispersion with something like 90% living in a relatively small Yorkshire trans-Pennine triangle.

We've then, with particular help with some higher-ups people in the Labour party, proceeded to replicate the very same circumstances that have caused it to proliferate in certain regions of Pakistan. The police and authorities felt cornered into not acting out of fear of political correctness - effectively also denying the existence of a problem for a long time.

We've picked up a very real problem within Pakistan, one which increases regionally and which Pakistan itself is struggling to come to terms with. We airlifted it back to the UK and then allowed it to be grafted into our own communities, and then not upheld our own laws to tackle it.

It's not a Muslim thing. It's not even a Pakistani thing. It's a regional thing. But when people coming to the UK are told to carry on in their old ways without having to integrate. When they surround themselves by people only from their same background, and when the UK police, council and child services all show all the same signs of behaving like the police and services from where they have come - then they'll continue with their criminal behavioural problems.

Everything that these good people are having to address we now need a UK equivalent. If they've got it, we've now got it. If they are having to deal with it, we have to deal with it.

And you just know our own domestic home-raised paedophiles will be using these networks to their advantage too.

[–]commenian 9ポイント10ポイント  (6子コメント)

You conveniently leave out of the equation that other Muslim communities do engage in this kind of activity.

Holland has a very similar problem. The groomers are called lover boys over there and are all Muslim men of Somali and Moroccan backgrounds. Their victims are virtually all non-Muslim Dutch European girls.

[–]CarlswaenMore than a star on someone else's flag 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

I didn't conveniently leave it out. I left it deliberately out because it's not related to Rotherham, or at least I've not seen any reports that connect it. I also left out that there's a number of BBC television and radio celebrities that acted as a community in this regard. I left it out because the connection between the two 'systems' or communities has not been established.

If there's a similar thing working within a subset of Somalian culture that's being brought over, and they're similarly failing to integrate in the Netherlands then that's a similar dynamic but it's not relevant to Rotherham.

If this was a veiled attempt to blame Islam as a whole then you're wrong and /r/European is probably that direction >>>> on your shortcut sidebar. I hope I am wrong.

[–]commenian 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

The common denominator is Islam. Why are you so desperate to act as an effective apologist for this ideology?

[–]CarlswaenMore than a star on someone else's flag 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

The common denominator for all paedophiles is mankind if you want to really push your xenophobia through a workout.

I'm the one that mentioned the regional Pakistan connection, but it's doing a disservice to people like those at W.A.R. if we lazily blame their religion as well, when they're also the people trying to tackle the common problem. Your "common denominator" is also common to the people trying to fight it in Pakistan, so as explanatory derivatives go you're bankrupt.

In tackling with one harmful problem we don't have to jump onto your hate-wagon with its own peculiar agenda. "OMG in talking about Rotherham somebody didn't mention a supposed Somalian problem in the Netherlands. It's just not cricket."

You can tell the boys at /r/european I've not agreed. Maybe they'll lay on some free counselling, get together in a circle and hug the shame out. The stupid, I fear, is terminal.

[–]commenian 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

The common denominator for all paedophiles is mankind if you want to really push your xenophobia through a workout.

But we can be more precise than that can't we. As to calling someone a xenophobe because someone links human behaviour and ideology, it is you who is intellectually bankrupt.

And yes the common denominator is Islam, but nowhere has anyone said that all Muslims are you ass so stop building straw men. Merely that culture/ideology influences behaviour, and the the Islamic supremacism and misogyny results directly in crimes like this.

[–]CarlswaenMore than a star on someone else's flag 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

But we can be more precise than that can't we.

Ha! Apparently you can't, no.

I'm pointing at specific sub-cultures, in specific regions in specific countries where people in the same countries with the same religion are already trying to address it, but you have to put it in the reverse direction of 'precise', and lay it at the feet of 23% of the world population and the world's second largest religion (according to wiki - I haven't personally counted them).

Broken record.

Wanna see how you stop a conversation when you don't want to talk to someone?.....

[–]commenian 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink can you?

And again what links these subcultures? Buddhists, Hindus, Parsis' subcultures do not behave in this way, yet all often Islamic subcultures do. That's not to say all of them do, but the probability of them doing is much higher.

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

This is a fair analysis, but you're pretty much giving the care services and the police force a free pass on all this. The impunity with which this abuse was carried out points to an appalling failure of public service.

[–]CarlswaenMore than a star on someone else's flag 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

you're pretty much giving the care services and the police force a free pass on all this.

I'm not, I'm saying they've been behaving like the Pakistani services in denying it happens. That's not a good place, and W.A.R. certainly don't pull any punches when it comes to their own systemic failure either. I'm saying none of this would have happened if we hadn't replicated the exact same environment which allows it to flourish in parts of Pakistan.

The culture coming over on its own wasn't enough. It needed the medium in which to operate. And we replicated the same failings in the same comparable systems.

There's small difference between a Karachi chief of police saying he won't investigate because rape couldn't exist, and a Rotherham chief of police saying they can't investigate because it might not be seen as politically correct enough.

The impunity with which this abuse was carried out points to an appalling failure of public service.

Couldn't agree more.

For the full situation to manifest it needed the complete unholy trinity.

We needed the culture (1). We needed the system and services which allowed the culture to flourish (2). And we needed the multicultural ethos instead of the intercultural ethos which said they didn't have to integrate and didn't have to change, that kept them in the same communities and cultural bubbles, and which cloaked the failing services from criticism (3).

[–]teenyweenytempahit depends -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

I disagree. This is more a law enforcement failure than any other. They know the law and still did it. Even with forced integration, this kind of thing would still have happened.

[–]hey-upDenial is a leftist trait 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's an ongoing IPCC investigation. Tip of the iceberg.

[–]ShitLordXuriousDenial is a leftist trait 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

How many knew but did nothing to stop it?

[–]yetieaterif the rich are extruded via a needle, do camels enter heaven? 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

probably somewhere around 2710 at least.

[–]yetieaterif the rich are extruded via a needle, do camels enter heaven? 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

How long until its expanded to "Every Muslim in Rotheram"

For goodness sake. What is wrong with you that you assume all Muslims are paedophiles? For the umpteenth time, sourced from MOJ stats, CEOP and Barnardos:

From past analysis, the breakdown of key facts from available evidence is thus:

  • On-street CSE is committed at higher rates by Asians
  • Online grooming is committed at higher rates by Whites
  • Child sexual abuse is overall committed at a rate roughly in line with population percentages by all ethnic groups, but the type most prevalent in each group vaires
  • Victims of CSE are on average older than average victims of sexual abuse and have 'multiple vulnerabilities' in many cases.
  • 'White' Abusers tend to fall into two groups; young adults or late teens who tend to offend against teens, and older men who tend to offend against younger victims.
  • Victims of CSE often report linkages between their abuse and other criminal behaviour e.g drug dealing, by the same offenders.

The conclusion from people in Muslim communities working to stop such abuse is that there is an issue with men in Asian communities being allowed to lead 'double lives' with their in-community behaviour being mostly good, but bad out-community behaviour being mostly ignored or blamed on being led astray by white girls. Therefore they try to work with mosques and local community leaders to challenge the turning a blind eye and allowing of double lives.

[–]amanafart [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Do you have any statistics on the raw numbers of victims? Because that's the only thing that matters really. Most of the white abusers' victims can be counted with the fingers of 2 hands, while asian gangs each have hundreds of girls on their record.

[–]yetieaterif the rich are extruded via a needle, do camels enter heaven? [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Again, you talk shit. I'm not fucking googling random statistics for you, but from memory prison interviews with paedophiles gave an average number of victims around 20, but those who you might call dedicated paedophiles have an average of 100-200 victims. Basically there's a lot who abuse opportunistically, and a few who abuse systematically for years.

you'll note in Rotherham that in 10 years a possible 300 abusers had approximately 1400 victims, your picture of hundreds of victims per gang seems unlikely, especially given the time it would take to exploit so many victims and keep them under control. I'm not sure if stats of average number of victims by ethnicity even exist, but I'd be surprised if the highest average per abuser was by Asian gangs.

All of which is pretty irrelevant, the crime is horrendous and scars kids for life regardless of such things. You don't need to abuse more kids to be a monster, one is more than enough.

[–]amanafart [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

your picture of hundreds of victims per gang seems unlikely, especially given the time it would take to exploit so many victims and keep them under control.

What? Go to wikipedia you fraud, each of those gangs indeed had hundreds of victims. Also many of the girls weren't groomed for a long period of time, they were simply plucked from the orphanages/off the street and violently raped while being threatened with death. They had no trouble keeping the girls under control because those were fuckin familial gangs of brothers and uncles vs small lost girls from dysfunctional families. You need to wake yourself up to the reality of what happened to those girls. Not every child rape case is the same, and being groomed on the internet and then having nonviolent sex with a man is not the same as being threatened into submission by 10 repulsive monsters who tell you that they're gonna burn you alive if you don't submit. Stop thinking about statistics and realize that most victims of suburban nonviolent pedophilia do not suffer the same terrifying ordeals as these poor disenfranchised girls went through.

All of which is pretty irrelevant, the crime is horrendous and scars kids for life regardless of such things. You don't need to abuse more kids to be a monster, one is more than enough.

You don't become a monster by grooming 1 underage person through the internet and having de-facto consensual sex. This is not even comparable to the atrocities that the paki family mafia has committed. Don't be a disingenuous sheltered leftist and pretend that a man having sex with a 14 year old is just as evil as these racist mudslime monsters.

[–]yetieaterif the rich are extruded via a needle, do camels enter heaven? [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You don't become a monster by grooming 1 underage person through the internet and having de-facto consensual sex. This is not even comparable to the atrocities that the paki family mafia has committed. Don't be a disingenuous sheltered leftist and pretend that a man having sex with a 14 year old is just as evil as these racist mudslime monsters.

First off, yes grooming one 14 year old REALLY FUCKING DOES MAKE YOU A MONSTER, WHAT THE EVERLOVING FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU, YOU SICK SHIT?!

Secondly, that has got to be a damn first, one of your bastard ilk finally coming out and saying paedo-fucking-philia is basically ok in order to demonise Muslims. Look where your dipshit racism has led you, you're acting as a fucking paedophile apologist because ultimately you don't really care about protecting kids, you just want an excuse to hate black and Asian people.

So yeah, lets leave it here, because I don't think I could get more angry with you. Please examine yourself, you should be very, very concerned that you are ok with online grooming of minors, that is not normal.

[–]metallicapples -5ポイント-4ポイント  (15子コメント)

What's happening about the Westminster paedophiles? I haven't heard much about that lot in the news for a while.

[–]EdwardJBarrettTory 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do you not follow the news, no?

[–]JunkoZane 5ポイント6ポイント  (13子コメント)

There was an update in the Lord Janner affair today.

Stop trying to distract from this issue.

[–]metallicapples -3ポイント-2ポイント  (12子コメント)

Distract from one group of establishment abusers by referring to another group of establishment abusers? Hardly.

My point was to highlight how widespread this disgusting behaviour is. And how ineffective the establishment has been at policing itself, so far.

[–]ProfessorZ00MI do not have the right not to do so[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (11子コメント)

Muslim Pakistanis are the establishment now? I should have known

[–]redneon -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bloody hell. Always a lurker but I used to like the good genuine political discussions that this sub used to bring. The racism apparent in this thread, however, is utterly abhorrent and the inability (or, more likely, refusal) to accept that by some agents of said racism is blatant. And the gall of down voting anyone who doesn't agree with you on such an important issue as this shows the true nature of this sub.

Rant over. I don't wish to associate myself with this sub any more based on these comments so I'm off. The down arrow is < that way.