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SCOTUS upholds Obamacare (bloomberg.com)

Peter_Venkman_1 が 投稿

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[–]mpv81 105ポイント106ポイント  (41子コメント)

I've said this a number of times, but in ten to twenty years conservatives will be touting the idea that the ACA was basically drafted from their playbook (which portions of it definitely were).

Today, over 8 million people have healthcare they wouldn't have access to if the ACA didn't exist. It's an imperfect, but largely successful piece of legislation and it's popularity will only increase over the years. The Republicans will try to sweep their intransigence under the rug shortly and the sad thing is that they'll be able to as the public seems to have a disturbingly short memory.

[–]djwhiplash2001 22ポイント23ポイント  (11子コメント)

I'm not so sure the Republicans, no matter how short our memories may be, will ever try to claim "Obamacare" as their own.

[–]bdog2g2 26ポイント27ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm not so sure the Republicans, no matter how short our memories may be, will ever try to claim "Obamacare" as their own.

Well obviously not. As mpv81 stated they'll claim the ACA was out of their playbook. It's all in the branding.

[–]fitnr [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I can totally see a Republican in 2028 arguing against some health care expansion because we should stick to the "conservative principles" of the ACA.

[–]Vinnys_Magic_Grits [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Already happens. Go to Kentucky, ask a Republican what they think of Obamacare. "I hate it, it's socialism." OK Mr. Kentuckian, but what do you think of KY Care? "I love it. I finally have insurance despite my preexisting condition of debilitating stupidity (probably)."

[–]rironin 19ポイント20ポイント  (2子コメント)

Do not underestimate their ability to rewrite history. They will try. They may succeed.

[–]psychicsword [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Most of the Republicans today fought against the "conservative" proposal put forth by Chafee back in the 90s. Yes his proposal did have Republican names behind it we cant ignore the fact that it never made it to become a full bill that got voted on and it was a very controversial proposal within the Republican camp. To say that current republicans should be less annoyed by Obamacare just because a subset of them 20+ years ago came up with a very similar idea is insane.

[–]StopBreathing_MyAir [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Texas lawmakers are requiring text books in their state say that Moses, yes, Moses from the bible, was a major player in the forming of the constitution of the United States.

If that isn't rewriting history I don't know what is.

[–]NonaSuomi282 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

They'll drop the moniker "Obamacare" but I don't doubt for a second that once it becomes almost-universally accepted/popular that they'll just switch to calling it ACA and start patting each other on the backs about how it was originally their idea to begin with and how they were just rabidly opposed to Obama's implementation of it, or some other mental gymnastics that allow them to both take credit and excuse their behavior over the past few years.

[–]jrakosi [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Just wait for it, the first time you hear a major republican use the term ACA instead of Obamacare, that is when you know it has begun. That is the only way they can begin to start taking ownership of the idea

[–]percussaresurgo [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Why not? The last person the GOP nominated to be president tried to claim the ACA wasn't his idea even though the ACA was modeled after the health care law he enacted in Massachusetts.

[–]usb_lighter [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I identify myself more as a Republican than a Democrat (probably not good to say on Reddit) and I have become a fan of Obamacare. Here is the main reason- look at the results. Millions more people have healthcare now than previously had it. You ask anyone you see, Republican, Democrat, Independent one question, "More people have health insurance right now: is that good or bad?" Everyone will tell you its a good thing. It seemed like in the beginning it was jammed down our throats a bit- you will do this, you will have healthcare or you will be fined, the government knows what is best for you, etc. So I didn't love how it was instituted but God damn I love the results, look how many people have healthcare now! So much better for our country and our quality of life to have more people insured.

[–]nazbot -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I LOVED that Republicans were using Obamacare as some sort of cudgel. As someone who lives in a country with Universal Care I know how popular it will be when it's fully implemented. Associating it with Obama like that was a dumb, dumb move. Almost as dumb as those people on the left to get them to call it the ACA.

[–]uphillalltheway 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Republicans will regret calling this Obamacare when they decide they want to take credit for it. I mean, this was right from their playbook and put into place at the state level by a Republican governor.

[–]AwesomeTed 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't know though, the Republicans did a great job of getting the ACA synonymous with the (at the time, derisive) label "Obamacare", to the point where I find it hard to believe that people will define national healthcare as anything else.

I think since it was introduced "Obamacare" was going to be the definition of Obama's legacy, for good or ill, and Republicans are going to have a pretty tough time selling the idea that "Obamacare" was their idea (even though it pretty much was.)

[–]mpv81 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think, as the general population realizes that Obamacare is a net positive to the US healthcare system, we'll slowly stop hearing that term. Soon when they give up the ghost on their fight against it, the GOP will begin trotting out the proper ACA moniker and tying it to Romneycare and it's Heritage Foundation 1990's model. But... I could be wrong. They may have accidentally given the PR victory to the democrats by betting so hard on the ACA being a failure and tying Obama's name to it.

Time will tell.

[–]suaveknight [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

There have been a couple of interesting surveys that show people are more in favor of "the Affordable Care Act" than they are of "Obamacare." Likewise, if you poll the favorability of the the various features of the law, they are all more popular than the law as a whole (except perhaps for the individual mandate, I think).

[–]bmwhd 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's actually 6 million incremental once you subtract the people who re-upped because their existing plans couldn't be kept. But still, 6 million is 6 million.

It would just have been better if both sides could have crafted a better law that would have covered more and cost taxpayers less. Oh well. Baby steps.

[–]Caperrs [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

health insurance is different than healthcare. you're not being accurate or honest when you frame the ACA as healthcare. words have meaning.

[–]SupersonicEmbryonic [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

and my healthcare has gone up over the past 2 years by over $200/month, with deductibles rising at a rate higher than ever before.

terrific, I guess I should be happy?

[–]paracelsus23 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Today, over 8 million people have healthcare they wouldn't have access to if the ACA didn't exist.

Today, I'm paying more than double what I did before the ACA existed for the same coverage (well my policy's $10 million "lifetime coverage limit" became unlimited). I can get lower cost plans, but they have inferior coverage.

You can use whatever pejorative term you wish to describe me, but I care about lowering my out-of-pocket cost for health coverage, and don't really give a shit about those 8 million people. If my health insurance costs keep increasing, I'm not going to be able to afford the level of coverage I currently have, and I'm going to have to go to an inferior plan for the sake of "helping others". Fuck that.

[–]Ender-of-Bart 0ポイント1ポイント  (13子コメント)

And people who don't have health care and can't afford it are being fined woot woot

[–]PennRiverGuy 8ポイント9ポイント  (11子コメント)

As to before, where people with preexisting conditions were left to die in debt.

It's imperfect legislation, but the goods definitely outweigh the bad

[–]Ender-of-Bart 0ポイント1ポイント  (10子コメント)

Says you I had no health insurance before I still have no health insurance and the government is fining me. So in my case the bad outweighs the good. Either everyone has it via single payer system similar to canadas or make it entirely private. This abomination is the worst of both worlds that punishes the poor.

[–]pab_guy 1ポイント2ポイント  (9子コメント)

If you can be fined, then you are above a certain income limit. If you are below 200% of the poverty rate you are eligible for subsidies.

So you are eligible for subsidies and not taking advantage? Or can you afford insurance but choose not to have it? You are either trolling or making really bad personal decisions...

Catastrophic insurance can be had for very cheap, and will prevent you from being fined. A single payer system would tax you more than what you would pay for catastrophic insurance.

[–]Ender-of-Bart 0ポイント1ポイント  (8子コメント)

I make 250% of the poverty rate. I live alone and well within my means a old car with no payments a cheap single bedroom apartment. It can be had for "very cheap" and provide me with none of the benefits of typical insurance. A single payer system would at least give me the benefits of actual insurance.

[–]pab_guy 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

So you can afford health insurance, and are choosing not to have it.

I'm glad you are at least paying the fine then, because absolutely no one believes you will just crawl under a rock and die if you get sick.

[–]Ender-of-Bart [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm not going to pay the fine if I can help it. There is no way for them to collect the fine except via tax returns so they can have any extra money from my tax returns besides that they are not getting shit. I can afford health insurance according to you I will instead save my money so in case of an emergency I have emergency funds like a responsible adult.

[–]SpareLiver -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

You not having insurance leaves people with insurance on the hook for paying your medical bills when you get into an accident.

[–]Ender-of-Bart [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Which I've never have nor is it likely I will. Last time I checked when I go to the hospital for an accident I get a crippling bill. Acting like I get off scot free is bullshit.

[–]SpareLiver [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

And if you fail to pay that bill? One of the reasons medical costs are so high is because of needing to cover people who can't pay. If everyone has insurance, than no one ends up paying for anyone else. Seems like it would be something Republicans would support...

[–]Ender-of-Bart [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I Agree but the current system of fining people for not having insurance is not the solution. The solution is a single payer system in which everyone has insurance not a fuck you pay your part with a fine and get nothing system. Republicans hold just as many retarded views as democrats if not more. It does not however mean they are always wrong.

[–]BubDull -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

And people who were never able to sign up for health care because they couldn't get their identity verified are being fined woot woot. Seriously the website fucking sucks.

[–]deja-roo 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Today, over 8 million people have healthcare they wouldn't have access to if the ACA didn't exist.

No, they have health insurance. This doesn't change your access to healthcare, it changes your insurance.

And now people have insurance with enormous deductibles, so their policies don't pay for shit. But by golly, they're a check mark on the "insured" list, so let's declare victory, yeah?

[–]darkpaladin [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

A $10k deductible doesn't seem so bad when your other option is a $500k hosipital bill.

[–]Isord [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Better to have a $2000 bill than a $2 million dollar bill.

[–]deja-roo [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

But my previous insurance covered both.

We fucked up everyone's insurance because of an extremely rare set of circumstances that affected a very small number of people.

[–]Isord [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Millions of Americans didn't have coverage. Most who did have coverage have the same or cheaper coverage now.

Your situation is actually the minority situation.

[–]poundfoolishhh -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Today, over 8 million people have healthcare they wouldn't have access to if the ACA didn't exist. It's an imperfect, but largely successful piece of legislation and it's popularity will only increase over the years.

I keep hearing this but I'm not sure how true it is. Personally, the ACA has turned me off from Democrats - probably for life - which is surreal to me as I voted for Gore and Kerry and just 12 short years ago I was marching in NYC on the eve of the Iraq war. My premiums and deductibles have gone up and I get no subsidy because I'm a single guy who makes "too much money" even though in my area I'm barely median.

Maybe they should have focused on why healthcare is so expensive rather than figuring out a way to giving people free money to subsidize the insurance that pays for it.

[–]suaveknight [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

People complain that "my premiums and deductibles have gone up" - wait, was there a time prior to the enactment of the ACA that they DIDN'T go up every year?

In addition to the obvious things that the ACA does, it also contains a number of measures that are intended to slow the growth of health care spending - and that's working. Yes, your premiums may have gone up - but for the average person, they went up less than they have been going up in recent years.