上位 200 件のコメント全て表示する 302

[–]StackLeeAdams 237ポイント238ポイント  (53子コメント)

Not really a controversy. It featured Anita Sarkeesian for about two seconds; all she said was that she gets death threats. It didn't talk about what she stands for at all, just the fact that she gets threatened because of what she says. Worked perfectly fine within the context of the episode, but of course the sight of her sends a lot of people into an irrational rage; hence the 'controversy'.

[–]random12356622 26ポイント27ポイント  (15子コメント)

Anita Sarkeesian is the media's go to Female Online Harassment spokeswoman.

Many think she baits the attacks by posting blatantly incorrect information about a population that always wants you to be factually correct. It is like if a cisgender white guy posted blatantly incorrect information about Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, or Trans people, the SJWers would jump all over him. Anita is that guy for the gaming community.

[–]SpawnQuixote 20ポイント21ポイント  (14子コメント)

[–]heath_parker 48ポイント49ポイント  (10子コメント)

That guy whipped his dick out at an Anti-Rape rally. Not exactly a smart move.

[–]glorkcakes 16ポイント17ポイント  (4子コメント)

oh god that sounds like a bad idea, is he still alive?

[–]schmucubrator 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

He died doing what he loved...

[–]Entinu 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Raping people? I mean....it's kind of a fair assumption when you whip your dick out at an anti-rape rally.

[–]schmucubrator 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

No, he just really loved whipping his dick out at anti-rape rallies.

[–]Entinu 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

[–]Werner__Herzogit's difficult difficult lemon difficult 173ポイント174ポイント  (197子コメント)

It featured Anita Sarkeesian and another women, both aren't very much liked by Gamer Gaters. Given that most of them probably are fans of John Oliver, there was probably some disappointment at play. The same happened when A.S. was interviewed by Steven Colbert.

[–]AsthmaticHummingbird 214ポイント215ポイント  (148子コメント)

Jesus, is that gamer gate shit still a thing?

[–]Werner__Herzogit's difficult difficult lemon difficult 160ポイント161ポイント  (57子コメント)

You have no idea.

[–]AsthmaticHummingbird 202ポイント203ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'll go ahead and keep it that way.

[–]Heratiki 20ポイント21ポイント  (1子コメント)

I've avoided it for this long. I'm pretty sure I can notgiveashit quite a bit longer.

[–]BrutallyHonestDude 41ポイント42ポイント  (50子コメント)

I still don't know what it's about.

[–]vikinickfor, while 155ポイント156ポイント  (41子コメント)

Theres really three distinct groups at play.

Pro-Gamer-gaters say that gamer gate is about ethics in gaming journalism.

Anti-Gamer-gaters say it is about trying to be sexist.

Then there's the third group of absolute assholes that are ruining both sides that just spout out insults and death threats to either side.

[–]rappersdo 9ポイント10ポイント  (5子コメント)

Ethics in gaming journalism

Seriously? Gaming Journalism that's worth the shitstorm that's developed since? Gaming journalism has been shit for as long as I can remember.

[–]esmifra 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I never considered it journalism per say, the same way i never considered Top Gear journalism.

It's reviews and there is news about the gaming industry, true, but for me calling it journalism just seems a little strong.

Having said that, gaming news and media has always been in a grey moral area, gaming websites always sent critics and writers to test games where everything is paid by the gaming company, and they even received gifting bags, that right there destroys anything that should be considered as a impartial relationship.

So when this whole gate crap happened because some "journalists" might have had improper relationships with one person that made a game and as such received high praises and reviews for a crappy game. That didn't seemed far fetched and just one more reason why i considered it all ridiculous.

Then this whole SJW - Mysoginist Gamers started and shit flew everywhere, i just avoid it as much as i can. It just shows me how bad people can be on either side.

[–]vikinickfor, while 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Considering gaming is now a multi-billion dollar a year industry, yeah, it's pretty major.

[–]rappersdo 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

There's real shit going on in the world, it just seems so trivial. Gaming journalists can't be trusted? This is news? They never have been, you can't argue for ethics in gaming journalism if there never was any to begin with.

I just think a cause so small as ethics in gaming journalism isn't worth people getting death/rape threats. I'm sure there are lots of Gamergaters who believe this issue is with ethics in gaming journalism, but as long as they share a platform with sexists their opinion won't be heard. This picture shares the same principle with what I'm talking about.

[–]Entinu 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Gaming journalists can't be trusted.

In other news, water is wet and fire is hot. More on this at 8 o'clock. In the meantime, let me distract you with pictures of kittens while politicians do something immoral.

[–]rappersdo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you'd read the rest of my post, that was my point.

[–]thinkpadius 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

To add onto what you were saying, all this -gate shit is drowning out reasonable dialogue about which games are and aren't contributing to the overall maturity of the industry.

[–]random12356622 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Have you ever heard of the OldManMurray website?

Gabe Newell cited the opinion of Old Man Murray as a factor when designing the popular and iconoclastic Half-Life. - and it has influenced many other famous designers/titles today.

I just wanted to talk about a review/critique/journalism I actually liked, instead of 'journalism' I hate.

[–]Farfignougat 8ポイント9ポイント  (6子コメント)

And what is gamer gate itself? What do games' representation of people have to do with gates?

[–]random12356622 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

And what is gamer gate itself?

This out of the loop is a better explanation: https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/2f7g5l/what_is_gamergate/

[–]vikinickfor, while 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

To understand that, read about the Watergate Scandal. Basically, any sort of scandal gets -gate appended to it to show it is a scandal.

For instance: antennagate for when iphones when held a certain way lost signal. Or deflategate when Tom Brady played with deflated footballs in an NFL game.

[–]sh2nn0n[S] 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

Indeed. I tend to add "gate" to very, very minor disagreements, discussions, or decisions amongst my friends or s.o. I find it giggle worthy. They usually roll their eyes. Everyone wins!

[–]Malzair 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

accidentally pushes over a glass

"OH MY!"

"John, don't scre..."

"OH MY! THIS IS THE BIGGEST EVENT OF THE LAST DECADES! THIS IS THE BIGGEST SCANDAL IN AMERICAN HISTORY!"

"John, what the..."

"SHE SPILLED SOME WATER! UNBELIEVABLE!"

"John, it's just some water, calm down!"

"I'M REPORTING TO YOU LIVE FROM THE SCENE! THIS EVENT, DUBBED WATERGATE BY THE MEDIA WILL PROBABLY LEAD TO THE PRESIDENT RESIGNING!"

[–]holmoris 27ポイント28ポイント  (1子コメント)

There's also a fourth group that just wants gamergate to go away entirely and stop shitting up forums.

[–]Kraligor -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I believe here we actually can call them the 99%.

[–]glorkcakes 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

ethics in gaming journalism is probably the most first world thing I've heard all month

[–]fiver_saves -4ポイント-3ポイント  (4子コメント)

That's the most reasonable description of gamergate I have ever seen. If I had money, I'd give you gold.

[–]Gohack 75ポイント76ポイント  (3子コメント)

If had three feet I would shove them all up your ass. If you don't have money don't mention the gold. Just say he made a good point. Now I'm off to save drowning orphans, if I had the time.

[–]probonoGoogler 23ポイント24ポイント  (0子コメント)

Then there's the third group...

[–]Bigsam411 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

If had three feet I would shove them all up your ass. If you don't have time don't mention the drowning orphans. Just say he made shouldn't have brought up gold.

[–]Gohack 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Jokes on you, I like it.

[–]Xamnam 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Here's what I wrote up the last time I was asked this on OotL:

So, I was going to explain, then I realized I wanted to make sure I knew everything myself, and ended up writing this.

I would almost applaud avoiding it, but if you are interested, as neutral and to the point as possible:

  • Zoe Quinn puts out a game/interactive fiction/visual narrative called Depression Quest

  • There was a lot of critical praise for the game, especially for tackling the subject matter it did. There was also backlash to this, such as: it barely qualified as a game, the subject matter was handled poorly, the subject matter was the only reason the game got any attention.

  • Some time later, Zoe Quinn's ex-boyfriend wrote a long blog post about how she cheated on him, and alleged she slept with several game reviewers/writers in return for positive press.

  • While she had received various hate mail/threats/trolling before because of Depression Quest, doxxing of Zoe Quinn began in earnest after that blog post gained traction.

  • Anita Sarkeesian, feminist, video game writer, and producer of a video series examining the role of women in the context of video games, who had already drawn ire for that and other reasons, both supported Quinn and was quickly embroiled in the conflict in her own right.

  • Nathan Grayson, a writer for fairly prominent game blog Kotaku, owned by Gawker, is named as one of the people Zoe Quinn slept with for coverage.

  • The editor in chief of Kotaku publishes a statement: That while the two were currently in a relationship, Nathan had only written one piece about Zoe Quinn, and it was unrelated to Depression Quest. (Whether or not this is true is the source of the subreddit name KotakuinAction)

Those are really the key notes of it. After that point, it spiraled outward, so anyone with an opinion on feminism, sexism, video games, and video games journalism felt the need to make it about their point.

The biggest arguments, which still continue:

  • Ethics in Journalism. Supposedly what all of this is about. Developers, publishers, and reviewers in video games tend to have close relationships, given the fields they work in, and the events they attend. There is intense criticism of some of these, and people allege that there is coverage/reviews that are unethical due to the relationship involved. However, this complaint frequently bleeds over into criticism of the increasing presence feminist/critical coverage of video games.

  • Feminism in games. Some people think video game culture has been unwelcoming to women, and others think that it has been openly misogynistic, both generally arguing that this isn't an acceptable state of affairs. The opposing view holds that the renewed focus on feminism in video games is unnecessary/forced political correctness/women trying to control men/social justice warriors trying to enforce their world view on everyone.

  • Harrassment/Doxxing. This has been a problem for outspoken feminists before any of this happened. However, many people who spoke out on the side of Zoe Quinn, regardless of involvement in the industry, received death threats, and had private information such as their home address made public. Women who spoke out tended to be targeted more than men who made similar comments, though it was by no means only women doxxed. (An example of threats sent to Brianna Wu, feminist video game designer, GRAPHIC LANGUAGE)

Due to the anonymous nature of everywhere it was discussed, however, Gamergate continues to mean whatever the person talking about it feels like. On the same note, because of the anonymity, it can be overwhelmingly hostile and threatening without much recourse. It's a nebulous beast, with no leaders, and no mission statement, and thus, almost impossible to find a True Scotsman.

[–]Kraligor 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wow, nice one. Thanks.

On a second thought.. goddamnit, I wanted to stay out of the whole thing. Now I know. -.-

[–]Xamnam 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you, and yeah, it's awful that this became such a massive thing essentially because somebody got mad at their ex.

[–]take-dat-wit-u 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Whatever you do, don't say that!

[–]FantasticRabbit 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

since this is /r/outoftheloop, can you explain gamergate to me?

[–]Werner__Herzogit's difficult difficult lemon difficult 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's featured in our List of retired question. (Please note the disclaimer.)

[–]conspiracyeinstein 25ポイント26ポイント  (28子コメント)

What's gamer gate?

[–]pfc_river 69ポイント70ポイント  (17子コメント)

A really involved controversy involving Anita Sarkeesian, another person named Zoe Quinn, accusations of Zoe sleeping with gaming journalists to advance her own career and agenda while squashing criticism. Regardless of any pertinent complaints against those two figures, the conversation has been taken over by the loudest voices. There have been death threats, rape threats, posting of their personal information.

There was a coordinated publication of articles talking about "the death of the term 'gamer'" because of its association with said voices. Anyone who weighed in on the subject got caught in the crossfire. Genuinely popular celebrities in geek and gamer culture such as Felicia Day started voicing their opinions on the matter, started getting threats of their own.

The whole thing is a big mess of yelling and threats in an industry going through extremely toxic issues. I'll see if I can find something with more details than I can recall.

https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/2f7g5l/what_is_gamergate/ Here is a link to a thread with more answers than I was able to provide.

[–]StackLeeAdams 52ポイント53ポイント  (10子コメント)

Here I was having a blast slaying Demons and traveling the world in The Witcher 3, thinking that this is what gaming's about.

[–]Litagano 47ポイント48ポイント  (2子コメント)

Keep on doing that. That truly is what gaming is about, not this shitfest.

[–]ForgingIronDas ist Nümberwang! 27ポイント28ポイント  (0子コメント)

Gaming should be about fun. Why people feel the need to form their little cliques and fanbases and factionalise every single trivial issue is beyond me.

[–]pfc_river 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

That is what gaming is about. All this whole shitstorm is what happens when people take it way too seriously.

[–]thinkpadius 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's a billion dollar industry, just like the movie business and the book business. Literature and film are taken very seriously, why not games?

The problem is that games are only on there second generation of game reviewers so the process, ideas, methods of analysis, thinking, and perception of what is and isn't culturally important, are in a lot of flux.

There's a lot of that in film and literature, but it's more focused because there have been many generations of analysis for books and movies.

But you're right that a shitstorm happens when people take things way too seriously.

[–]pfc_river 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Exactly. I'm not saying that reading into thematic elements and aspects of gaming is bad. Far from it. I'll be one of the first to defend it as an art form. Like you said, analysis and taking the games seriously isn't itself bad. It's just that even wanting to broach the subject or attempting to address problems is sometimes seen as a hostile act. I think gaming having such an immersive and interactive aspect brings out something in fans.

[–]thinkpadius 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was just saying that to someone earlier. A lot of the reasonable discussion is getting drowned out by all this hyperbolic anger from one side or the other. It makes it very hard to change people's minds.

[–]Fiddi 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

and hopefully romancing Triss or Yen ;)

(which i failed to do)

[–]sh2nn0n[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I know, right? Sometimes I feel like the only person who never cared about their gender representation in games. I just liked stabbing things with a digital sword or solving puzzles.

[–]dalr3th1n 16ポイント17ポイント  (5子コメント)

A reproductively viable female worker ant.

Seriously.

[–]NovaDeez 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Funnily enough, Adventure Time released an episode focused around ants right when GamerGate was blowing up. As a result, a ton of people were attempting to understand what exactly their point was, having a character named Lieutenant Gamergate. Ultimately, the shows creators had to state that it was just name after the ant, and had nothing to do with the video game industry or harassment.

[–]SupahSpankeh 40ポイント41ポイント  (50子コメント)

Be prepared. Every time I've quietly tried to point out that GG is a burden, and while Anita may not be perfect she sometimes has a point and doesn't deserve death threats...

Well, downvotes. Generally cira 10-30. Despite the fact that I wouldn't qualify as a "SJW" (Doom too violent? Good grief woman) there's still a lot of effort put into protecting the GG "brand" on reddit.

[–]Dead_Man_Redditing 58ポイント59ポイント  (37子コメント)

As far as I have ever seen, there are several people on the same side as Sarkisian that make valid points, but I have never seen Anita herself make any move or statement that wasn't motivated by greed. She is a known fraud who has hurt this entire movement by using it as a for profit launching point that points at men being the sole answer for anything negative that ever happens in gaming.

[–]SupahSpankeh 50ポイント51ポイント  (36子コメント)

Whoah. Easy now.

There's not a single thing I do at my job that isn't motivated by greed, and I'm not evil. Well, most of the things I do are motives by a desire for filthy lucre, but you get my point.

She is a little obsessive. For example, I suspect the "combat troops in high heels" thing she was bitching about is as much a device to appeal to lady gamers (who generally like wearing high heels, and feel more powerful/sexy when they do) as it is dude gamers.

Furthermore, the stuff about Corvo in Dishonoured 2 is absurd. There's a male or female lead depending on player choice. Whining about that is also spectacularly foolish.

However, she's the first prominent feminist to make a noise in this space. Yes, she's got things wrong, and no, nobody will ban violent games because she doesn't like them.

However, ad hominem and bitching about her character and motivations will get us nowhere. It just blends in with all the other personal attacks from GG and their ilk.

We need to move past that bollocks - join the discussion. Take a seat at the table and be reasonable. So what if part of what she's doing is motivated by money? We all have jobs. This is hers.

Join the debate. Be calm. Offer insight and your ideas.

Edit: ffs don't downvote the guy I'm replying to. Downvote is not a disagree button.

[–]typer525 41ポイント42ポイント  (25子コメント)

My personal gripe with her is that she is actually detracting from the debate.

Ignore the fact that her kickstarter have yet to deliver after 2 years.

Ignore the fact that she misrepresents the Hitman series to be about woman killing (when in the example video it shows the player being deducted points).

Lets also ignore the fact that she misrepresented Rise from Persona 4 at this year's E3 when Rise's entire character story is of her finding herself outside of her status persona as a teen idol.

Lets even ignore that time she went on Colbert and couldn't "name three video games that objectify women" when that is her entire platform and claim to fame.

It is because she does not debate. I have yet to see her claims hold up to any sort of scrutiny. And honestly, how can it when she doesn't source research and just speculates on the effects video games have on the human psyche. So I ask you this, what has Anita Sarkisian added to the debate?

Edit: status -> persona (cause that's the name/theme of the game) & typo fixes

[–]sh2nn0n[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

I agree. I'm all for "having a seat at the table and joining a discussion", but ,just as I don't want the trolls that do dox people and harass there, I am also not keen on people who can't discuss or compromise being there.

I feel like she says " Look at me" more than she says "let's talk about this".

[–]typer525 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, she also has taken a Jack Thompson vibe recently. I only really started paying attention to her last year when she got a ton of coverage as a result of her getting involved with GamerGate (which is a whole another shitstorm).

She strikes me as misinformed and as the first big voice in the debate, has derailed it for the rest of us.

[–]Wazula42 0ポイント1ポイント  (21子コメント)

Ignore the fact that her kickstarter have yet to deliver after 2 years.

She promised 100 minutes of content and has delivered 176, albeit spread out in fewer, longer episodes.

Ignore the fact that she misrepresents the Hitman series to be about woman killing (when in the example video it shows the player being deducted points).

She commented on one level in one game where you have the option to murder strippers. They are not required to do so, but the option was placed there intentionally by the developers. It did not occur by accident.

Lets even ignore that time she went on Colbert and couldn't "name three video games that objectify women" when that is her entire platform and claim to fame.

She chose not to answer the question because her point isn't about individual games but rather the tropes they contain. Her series is called "Tropes vs. Women" not "Games vs. Women". If she'd named three games then people at home would have gone "Oh, well, if I avoid those games then I'll be alright", thereby missing her point.

It is because she does not debate. I have yet to see her claims hold up to any sort of scrutiny. And honestly, how can it when she doesn't source research and just speculates on the effects video games have on the human psyche.

Her opinions are subjective, like all criticism. You're free to disagree. But they're perfectly in line with feminist critique of films, TV and literature that's been going on for a hundred years. Almost banal actually. There's nothing in her videos you wouldn't see in an average media studies course at community college.

So I ask you this, what has Anita Sarkisian added to the debate?

She's pretty much singlehandedly introduced feminist discourse into the gaming world, as well as spearheaded a new awareness about the harassment women face in geek culture. I'd call that valuable even if I don't always agree with her.

Sorry for the novella, I just feel like OutoftheLoop should be one place on Reddit where the anti-Anita circlejerk shouldn't have a hold.

[–]Iliketrainschoo_choo 15ポイント16ポイント  (10子コメント)

She commented on one level in one game where you have the option to murder strippers. They are not required to do so, but the option was placed there intentionally by the developers. It did not occur by accident.

There is an option to kill.... anyone in that game. You have to kill someone at a strip club, guess whats in strip clubs? It also heavily penalizes you for it.

Sure, I agree with Anitas overall theme, there's sexism in video games.

But I really wish there was someone else spear heading this instead of her.

Started this off by saying "I dont like video games" I mean, starting off with a clear bias is Step One in How to objectively look at a subject

Doesn't play the games she critizes. She made the hitman video from what someone told her. She hadn't at the time (SHe could have played since then, but already said she doesn't like video games") It's like doing a book report on what someone else who read the book told you about.

Glosses over some super important issues.

Will admit, I do not follow her, so she could have mentioned it since I last looked her up.... but why on earth has she not mentioned the disparity of programmers, gender wise? This is probably one of the most pressing sexism issues about video games. Are males making a work enviroment where women dont feel welcome? Is it rooted in school, where women don't feel welcome to study programming? I don't know, if someone were to talk about why there very very few female video game programmers I would love to listen to it.

She has no idea what shes talking about sometimes.

She was complaining about how the person who created the Bayonetta 2 main character made it to fullfill their male sexual needs. (The character was created and developed by a woman)

I hate the whole "if a game doesn't have a only female lead, it's inherently sexist" thing she has going on right now. Yes its good to point out that most game leads are male, and maybe we should introduce women. But the Dishonered 2 rant was pretty dumb.

The biggest thing that kinda makes me mad is she assumes motives. For example: Women in skimpy clothing = men wanting sex stuff. Never mind the fact that in reality, the story like wanted all the elves to be naked because they have no need for clothes, but in order to be allowed to sell game, they had to be as skimpy as they could. It very well could be the fact that the artists are just pervs, but she just straight up says this is why this is. She has no idea.

Like her idea, dislike her.

[–]random12356622 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

why on earth has she not mentioned the disparity of programmers, gender wise? This is probably one of the most pressing sexism issues about video games. Are males making a work enviroment where women dont feel welcome? Is it rooted in school, where women don't feel welcome to study programming?

http://i.imgur.com/bqjphj4.jpg

[–]Wazula42 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (8子コメント)

There is an option to kill.... anyone in that game. You have to kill someone at a strip club, guess whats in strip clubs? It also heavily penalizes you for it.

Yeah. It's a game about killing, and potentially deriving pleasure from it. Which is why her commenting on deriving pleasure from killing the strippers in the game is not a mischaracterization. The video the Hitman example is in is about women in passive, objectified roles in games. The question becomes, why did the devs decide to have the strip club if not to pander to the audience by involving female strippers (whom you can kill because it's fun)?

Doesn't play the games she critizes. She made the hitman video from what someone told her. She hadn't at the time (SHe could have played since then, but already said she doesn't like video games") It's like doing a book report on what someone else who read the book told you about.

Yeah I hear this a lot. The "I don't like video games" quote is from a context-free video from seven years ago, she's since said she just doesn't care for violent ones (which is consistent with that quote in its proper context).

but why on earth has she not mentioned the disparity of programmers, gender wise?

She has.

She was complaining about how the person who created the Bayonetta 2 main character made it to fullfill their male sexual needs. (The character was created and developed by a woman)

She was created by a man and designed by a woman based on his commission.

I hate the whole "if a game doesn't have a only female lead, it's inherently sexist" thing she has going on right now. Yes its good to point out that most game leads are male, and maybe we should introduce women. But the Dishonered 2 rant was pretty dumb.

Yeah some of her E3 coverage has been inadequate. I do think it's good to point out that despite E3's progress, we're stall far from equal in terms of gender, however.

For example: Women in skimpy clothing = men wanting sex stuff. Never mind the fact that in reality, the story like wanted all the elves to be naked because they have no need for clothes, but in order to be allowed to sell game, they had to be as skimpy as they could.

Stories don't happen by accident. If the story calls for elves to be naked, that's because the devs wrote it that way.

Like her idea, dislike her.

Fair enough. I feel the same way sometimes. I just like people to engage with her opinion more fully, instead of attacking this twenty foot tall strawman redditors have constructed based on hearsay.

[–]Doniac 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

I have a bit of an issue with what you said about the strip club and the elves. Obviously they wouldn't have to write it in, but I find it weird that you make it out as if some things just shouldn't be allowed, or well, done.

Like elves are more or less often perfect beings, which means they wouldn't need clothes, I don't see why they shouldn't be represented that way just because some people don't like naked beings. (Not that I've ever seen a naked elf in any form of fiction, so I don't really know where the argument came from, but it works as an example.)

[–]moldymoosegoose 11ポイント12ポイント  (6子コメント)

She commented on one level in one game where you have the option to murder strippers. They are not required to do so, but the option was placed there intentionally by the developers. It did not occur by accident.

In a game about killing mostly men, do you not see how ridiculously contrived this is?

[–]atalkingcow 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's also less likely that they specifically programmed the prostitutes to be killable, and more likely that the game gives no shits about gender because every npc is killable. sounds fair to me.

[–]moldymoosegoose 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

I honestly can't tell if people like him/her are actually serious or not using terms like "only to mildly hinder you and/or provide a voyeuristic thrill?" I haven't even looked too deeply into this whole gamer gate thing but if it's full of people like this I can see why they're massively hated.

Also, here is a man in the shower you kill in Hitman. You also kill a woman in the shower in a later game. There are also probably 100x more female strippers than males in the world and organized crime is mostly men which would include female strippers. I don't understand the logic behind any of this.

[–]sh2nn0n[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

As a fellow female gamer, I feel as though she SHOVED (not honorably introduced) feminist discourse into my previously drama free hobby.

[–]Wazula42 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

You're entitled to your opinion. I would point out that she was talking about movies and music before launching her video game related kickstarter, which blew up largely because people started harassing the shit out of her for having opinions on video games. If you think she's overstepped herself, blame the trolls. But the feminism was going to show up eventually.

[–]sh2nn0n[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't mind equality in gaming. I just wanted to point that out. I'm just not comfortable with her brand of feminism.

[–]Dead_Man_Redditing 29ポイント30ポイント  (7子コメント)

No I mean that she specifically uses feminism as a way to make money. These are not character or ad homing attacks but well documented points. Don't try to condescendingly dismiss my statement then hypocritically attack my opinions while telling me to be calm and join the debate, that is exactly what I am doing.

Facts, one of her first jobs was as a spokesperson to convince people to invest in a piramid scheme. She accepted hundreds of thousands of donations for a Kickstarter to make a feminist documentary series about patriarchal tropes on gaming that she has yet to complete and at this point doesn't seem to care about completing. She points to patriarchy as the cause of every decision ever made in the gaming world. Mario has to save peach, patriarchy. Mirrors Edge made a strong female character not driven by male ideas, patriarchy because she is attractive. Metroid introduced a character so balanced that nobody even knew she was female until you beat the game, patriarchy because they were clearly forcing her to surpress her femininity.

I am on her side of the argument. I believe the treatment of females in society as a whole as well as inside the gaming world is substandard in comparison to males. I think the gamergate anti feminist mysogonist movement is deplorable, sub-human behavior. That doesn't mean I have to blindly follow everyone who has that opinion. Or that my opinions should be immediately attacked and associated with gamergate because you disagree with them.

[–]Wazula42 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

No I mean that she specifically uses feminism as a way to make money. These are not character or ad homing attacks but well documented points.

Are you saying it's bad that this is her job and not her hobby?

She accepted hundreds of thousands of donations for a Kickstarter to make a feminist documentary series about patriarchal tropes on gaming that she has yet to complete and at this point doesn't seem to care about completing.

She promised 100 minutes of content and has delivered 176, albeit spread out in fewer, longer episodes.

She points to patriarchy as the cause of every decision ever made in the gaming world.

That's not even close to true. She comments on tropes she finds sexist. You're free to disagree with her but please don't mischaracterize. Recently she's commented positively on games like Beyond Good & Evil and Sword & Sorcery, and she has a good Steam curator list for games like Portal.

That doesn't mean I have to blindly follow everyone who has that opinion. Or that my opinions should be immediately attacked and associated with gamergate because you disagree with them.

I'm glad about the first half of this paragraph. I'm confused as to why you think you have to agree with Anita on everything. I suppose if your main experience with feminism is on Reddit then Anita must loom very large, but she's not the Queen of Feminism. A LOT of people disagree with her on certain points, including Joss Whedon, the writers at The Mary Sue, and others.

[–]Dead_Man_Redditing 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

A. I think it is wrong that she uses feminism to make money. It is a marketing tool to her and that hurts the cause. Of you cannot see what's wrong with that then you are what's wrong with feminism.

B. She delivered on 30% of her promised content, period. It doesn't matter if she stretched that 30% out for time. If I promised you ten new star wars movies at a total of 1000 hours but only made two that were 1100 hours, would you feel that I fulfilled my promise.

C. Again, you like her so you only see her positive positions but you had to go all the way down to sword and sorcery, one of her newest reviews, to find a positive one because you know that everything she says in her early content points to exactly what I pointed out .

D. I point out what I feel is wrong with her and you immediately attacked me and my position, a point you chose to ignore in your response, and you don't understand why I would feel as if I should be following her just because she is a feminist? Really? For the record I am an egalitarian, I play for all sides not one. I work with several groups however I will openly admit that most of my work goes to feminism but that is because they are the largest, most organized movement so it is easier to find. My entire feminist experience has been spent in the real world, at rallies and protests with real people that I have to stare in the face when I share my opinions, reddit is a side note at best with my experience. But by all means, go ahead and attack my history of feminism by assuming (again) that I'm apart of the reddit gamergate horde.

[–]Gohack 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

She isn't a feminist. She may be an opportunist and a misandrist, but not a feminist.

[–]Doniac 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

From what I've seen of the gg stuff, the people who are anti don't want to discuss it. Whenever someone has tried to be neutral, they're attacked for "legitimizing a hate movement" etc.

[–]Stormwatch36what are loops and sidebars? 7ポイント8ポイント  (11子コメント)

and doesn't deserve death threats...

When I was a fourteen year old playing Halo 2 on Xbox live, other kids would tell me things like: "you little bitch, I'm going to hunt you down and fuck you with a rake" if I played too well, every single game. As far as I knew, that was to be expected, at the time it was pretty much a hilarious trope. I still get death threats every time I kill more than two people in a game of TF2 on a pub server. When the hell did this become a big deal?

[–]Sixkitties 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

I think the death threats are slightly more alarming because they're sending her personal address and stuff. I also seem to remember that she was going to go speak a college and it had to be cancelled because someone threatened to bomb it.

Not some random threat from someone who knows nothing about you.

[–]Stormwatch36what are loops and sidebars? 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

That stuff is quite a bit different from what the John Oliver episode went into. The episode started and finished the topic at "people saying mean shit on the internet", so that's what I'm talking about here. Obviously someone threatening to bomb a building has always been a big deal.

[–]DarkLordWonton 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

His point really wasn't about people just saying mean shit on the internet, I think he made this pretty clear with his joke about the comments on his own videos. His main point was about harassment online and how little the law enforcement agencies seem to give a shit about it. Although he did make it look like a women's issue I think his main point was more about how easy it is to ruin someone's life or make someone feel suicidal on the internet and how little is being done to prevent it.

[–]Sixkitties -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh. The content of your post made it seem like you just assumed that she was getting trashtalked while playing online, instead of actual threats. d: My bad!

[–]Wazula42 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

General raging online is shitty, but it doesn't compare to the kind of harassment that's going on here. We're talking specific, detailed, personal threats of murder at specific times in specific places. "I'll kill you faggot" is not the same as "I will come to your house at 333 So-And-So Street and murder you in your living room while your boyfriend watches."

[–]Stormwatch36what are loops and sidebars? 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

The problem is, what do you want the police to do? Once the person giving the threat denies it, bam, it's a he-said she-said. Even if it was recorded and proven that they did threaten her, what's a suitable punishment for just saying shit like that and not acting on it? A fine does nothing to ensure her safety. A restraining order is nothing but a piece of paper until it's violated, and when that happens it's too late. 24/7 surveillance on the person who threatened her can only go on for so long. The cops have other things to do, especially if the person continues to show no sign of acting on it. 24/7 surveillance on the victim puts the punishment on them, and again still comes with a time limit. I guess you could lock the person up, but again, for how long? That's also likely to make them definitely act on it as soon as they get out, especially if it were a long sentence.

As much as it's easy for us to say "how horrible, the police need to help her", seriously, what are they actually supposed to do? In terms of tangible actions and not loose ideas of justice, what should be done to the people who make these threats?

[–]Wazula42 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Even if it was recorded and proven that they did threaten her, what's a suitable punishment for just saying shit like that and not acting on it?

Threats are already illegal. There are laws in place to punish me if I leave notes written in blood on your front door. We're just saying these shouldn't be waved just because law enforcement still doesn't understand what Twitter is.

In terms of tangible actions and not loose ideas of justice, what should be done to the people who make these threats?

Probably similar things that happen to people who make threats in real life. Punishment varies state by state and case by case, of course. We're just saying these things shouldn't be excused because "it's the internet, it happens to everybody". The internet's not some magical fantasy land where nothing has consequences.

[–]Stormwatch36what are loops and sidebars? 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

You did the classic thing.

"What, specifically, do you think should be done to these people?"

"Different states have different laws, and we need to take action even if it happens online!"

"...great. What, specifically, do you think should be done to these people?"

[–]sarded 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Follow the appropriate law depending on the state or nation they're in? You don't need a different law in this case just because it's the internet.

"This person made a death threat, illegal in this state under the following law, which carries the following penalties. They were in the aforementioned state when they committed the crime."
No special case needed.

[–]Stormwatch36what are loops and sidebars? 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The problem is that threat laws are notoriously useless between two individuals, even offline. Anita Sarkeesian has people calling her home phone number. Her address has been distributed and of course used. Like another commenter mentioned, someone also threatened to blow up a building because she was going to be there.

So, what has happened? Who has been punished, and how? As far as I know, they're still just looking into it. If you have a source further in the future of anyone being punished as a result of her, that'd be awesome, September of last year was the latest I could find in a pinch. So again, it's great that you want them to keep doing exactly what they're already doing. I'm sure they'll like that, since what they're doing is nothing.

EDIT: Even assuming that they arrested someone for the bomb threat at some point (which I don't think they did), what exactly does that do? If I had a massive army of people heavily harassing me through all channels on a daily basis, I wouldn't have anything positive to say about one guy being arrested. So yes, it does require a bit of a special case. With thousands of people sending her death threats every day from all angles: phone, internet, mail, everything, how do you figure out which ones are genuine threats to her safety? What do you do if you can't figure that out? I keep asking you what you want them to do, and you refuse to answer. Let's try it differently:

Thousands of people are harassing you. Over phone, email, snailmail, twitter, they egged your house last night, and they've threatened to bomb your speaking engagements. You call the cops, and they agree to help. What do you expect them to do? Don't give me "follow the law" again. What do you actually expect them to do to give you your life back, in terms of tangible actions?

[–]Zeydon 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Jesus, is that gamer gate shit still a thing?

...

[–]PaperStew 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'll give AS a pass but the other one, Brianna Wu, has been caught making up harassment and death threats.

More than that, the amount of harassment on social media is about the same regardless of gender. Though women do receive more sexual harassment while males receive more physical threats, the total amount of harassment is about the same.

Hell, John Oliver even encouraged the harassment of Ecuador's president.

[–]edgeloard 18ポイント19ポイント  (3子コメント)

Gamer Gaters

Why does anyone who thinks Anita Sarkeesian is a con artist automatically a Gamer Gater?

[–]random12356622 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

It is common for radicals to lump everyone they disapprove of together.

[–]Werner__Herzogit's difficult difficult lemon difficult 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I didn't say that anyone who doesn't like her is a Gamer Gater. How did I become a radical all of a sudden? I'm not invested in this at all...

[–]Werner__Herzogit's difficult difficult lemon difficult 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I actually didn't say that.

[–]cannotfoolowls 18ポイント19ポイント  (17子コメント)

Why is Sarkeesian still relevant again?

[–]Shiranaru 41ポイント42ポイント  (14子コメント)

Ironically because GamerGate has continued to hate on her, she's been able to gather much more attention. Almost all I've learned about her has been in relation to gamergate.

[–]benzimo 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'm pretty sure that GG is the only reason people like Colbert and Oliver have even mentioned her. They're doing a great job of propelling her into the public consciousnesses, in the same way that the Charleston shooting made America realize "Holy crap, we still have Confederate flags up?".

[–]edgeloard 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm pretty sure most of her rise in the media has more to do with Jonathan McIntosh and his family's influence. It's what happens when you have loads of money and media connections.

[–]cannotfoolowls -3ポイント-2ポイント  (8子コメント)

Yeah, because complaining about video games seems to be the only thing she does.

[–]SupahSpankeh 15ポイント16ポイント  (5子コメント)

Right, that's her thing. But that no more detracts from her than my thing being the creation of production environments for mass communications.

She's wrong about a lot of stuff, but she has a point in some areas. GG on the other hand... Well, spend some time in the raid channels on 8chan and let me know which of the two groups are the more unstable.

[–]BC1224 21ポイント22ポイント  (2子コメント)

The argument isn't that she's wrong, it's that she is intentionally misrepresenting the games she comments on, which is an argument that can fairly easily be made.

And you can go to Tumblr (which would be the ideological opposite of 4/8chan) and find insanity equal to (if not greater than) that you can find on 4/8chan.

[–]jmcs 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

And they deserve each other, and everyone else would be relieved if they kept to their respective asylum.

[–]sh2nn0n[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sorry you got downvoted. I felt this was a pretty fair statement.

[–]cannotfoolowls 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sarkeesian is mostly wrong and the chans are quite unstable. Bear shits in woods.

[–]BlueArmistice 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

She saw how well race bating worked for Jesse Jackson and just swapped it for gaming.

[–]improperlycited 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

She is excellent at keeping herself relevant. She plays up to both sides.

She knows exactly what she is doing and it works.

[–]Werner__Herzogit's difficult difficult lemon difficult 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know.

[–]LlamaOfRegret 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Who's John Oliver, and why were the Gamer Gaters fans of him in the first place?

[–]Werner__Herzogit's difficult difficult lemon difficult 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

Gamer Gaters aren't necessarily fans of his, more like the general reddit population. John Oliver is best know for being a corespondent on The Daily Show, he played a Professor in the first and second season of Community and he now has his own show on HBO: Last Week Tonight With John Oliver. Almost every youtube video of his posted to reddit reaches the front page, even thought they are all ~18-20min long (so attention span wise, that's really amazing for the internet, but not the reason I say reddit likes him.)

[–]LlamaOfRegret 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks for the explanation!

[–]NaomiNekomimi 2ポイント3ポイント  (17子コメント)

Who is A.S.?

[–]Werner__Herzogit's difficult difficult lemon difficult 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Anita Sarkeesian

just too lazy to spell it out a second time, I guess that's what I get for being lazy...

[–]flait7Orbiting the loop 4ポイント5ポイント  (15子コメント)

Anita Sarkeesian is a spokesperson in the youtube channel Feminist Frequency that focuses mainly on the role of women in gaming. She talks about things like positive female characters, stereotypes that female characters follow, and other things related to women as video game characters. Really the entire channel is relatively inactive. Some of her videos are also things like "How to be feminist" and "benefits of being a white male gamer". A lot of the stuff she does is pretty underwhelming, and not really worth freaking out about like people did whenever 'gamer gate' was relevant.

[–]dallasdarling 6ポイント7ポイント  (14子コメント)

Yeah it's pretty much just the very bare bones introduction to feminist theory, but many people apparently have never been exposed to that, and either don't listen to the actual words, don't care about the experiences of others, or actually lack the capacity to understand and evaluate cultural criticism.

[–]atalkingcow 6ポイント7ポイント  (12子コメント)

Or, they dislike feeling that their hobby is being misrepresented by an outsider purely to stir up shit for clicks.

[–]dallasdarling 2ポイント3ポイント  (11子コメント)

Who's the outsider, in your analogy?

[–]sh2nn0n[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (10子コメント)

I would imagine he is referring to Anita. Just my guess.

[–]dallasdarling -1ポイント0ポイント  (9子コメント)

And in what way would she be an "outsider?" She's a gamer just like the rest of us.

[–]sh2nn0n[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was being silly in my initial response.

However, I will let someone else take the bait of this current question.

[–]zahlman 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

In addition to the other stuff that was mentioned: the episode was widely perceived as framing the problem as gendered and primarily affecting women - which per Pew research only holds up if, well, you focus on the specific types of harassment that women tend to receive. It also misses the huge effect that other factors besides gender have on risk of harassment - particularly age. Also, I'd argue that most men on the internet have a higher threshold for deeming a comment "sexual harassment" aimed at them, which would partially explain the disparity in reported incidents.

[–]nicknitros 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I see a lot of mention of Sarkeesian and Wu, but the most commented on quip I came across on FB refers to his "congrats on your white penis" line. It is not impossible for a man to have his address posted online with a realistic death threat. And it's right at the beginning, so people would watch the whole segment thinking "erm, I have a penis and that could very easily happen to me" and get very pissed off about it

[–]IAmTheTrueWalruss 19ポイント20ポイント  (1子コメント)

I wouldn't say it was "controversial" it just isn't as well liked as the other episodes are.

[–]salsadoom 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah it wasn't as good -- but that AOL add at the end was hilarious, lol.

[–]flait7Orbiting the loop 52ポイント53ポイント  (2子コメント)

John Oliver has a habit of bringing up truth about what pieces of shit are doing, but the online episode was a little close to home for people. It's different when it's something like the government fucking people up in one way or another 'cause viewers can act like they're the bad guy. But when people viewing are the bad guy then it's a little more personal.

One of the subjects was how women are treated on the internet, a sore spot in the first place, but it was made a little worse by having Anita Sarkeesian appear in the show. People think of her as a professional victim and disregard anything she says; they also disregard the fact that she does actually face a lot of harassment, and people who are pissed off at the episode are kind of just providing evidence for that.

[–]QuinMartinProduction 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

One of the subjects was how women are treated on the internet, a sore spot in the first place

It's a sore spot because according to the very same study he was citing, women are harassed online less than men. He narrowed his scope to a certain kind of harassment at a certain age range to push his narrative, ignoring everything else that would have presented a more even handed, honest narrative.

And as a lot of people on your side of the argument love to point out, reddit is majority male. A lot of males are getting tired of contrived 'women are in trouble' moral panics.

they also disregard the fact that she does actually face a lot of harassment

Because she has lied about it. And it is disingenuous to pity someone for something they actively cultivate and make money off of.

[–]SarcasticSarcophagus 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

I guess I'm even more out of the loop: Which episode is the controversial one?

[–]sh2nn0n[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Episode 18 of this season.

[–]Why_Is_This_NSFW 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

[–]SarcasticSarcophagus 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Based on the rest of the comments, I'd say yes.

[–]dichotomies 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes. Just watched it. It's the most recent one.

[–]SovietWarfare 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Aside from the common answer of "Anita Sarkeesian was in the video" some people are also upset about John Oliver's apparent hypocrisy, because apparently in the past he's called on his viewers to harass their congressman as well as telling people who take offence twitter should just take a step back from the internet, or something along those lines (Although in context it was to some high ranking foreign official calling out people making fun of him on twitter)

[–]megadog14Upsearchbars to the right 14ポイント15ポイント  (7子コメント)

There's two main reasons. The first is that two of the women he featured, Anita Sarkeesian and Brianna Wu, may have faked some of the harrassment they got, as seen here for Sarkeesian, and here and here for Wu.

The second is that in a previous bit on his show, he encouraged people to send online harassment, as seen here.

[–]Teddio 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Could you explain that 3rd picture? I don't understand what it is implying.

[–]megadog14Upsearchbars to the right 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

She claimed that she needed to flee her home due to threats she received. However, when you look at videos she made while at her house and compare them to those that she made while she claimed to have fled her house, they all appear to be in the same location, casting into doubt whether she actually left or not.

[–]Tribalrage24 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not many people like Anita, and she was featured in the episode.

[–]reddit_in_peace 10ポイント11ポイント  (5子コメント)

It was pretty sloppy journalism. The piece was okay, if a bit bland, but it opened up with two professional victims that are some of the worst examples of anything relating to women's issues.

It would be like a piece on religious persecution opening with a quote from the Westboro Baptist Church talking about the hate mail they receive, followed by the church of Scientology complaining about the documentaries made about them. Technically, it fits, but it's a horrible opening if they're going to talk about people getting mocked on Ash Wednesday and women in hijabs getting spat at on the subway.

[–]Syjefroi 11ポイント12ポイント  (4子コメント)

For this analogy to work, wouldn't someone like Anita Sarkeesian have to be sending death threats of her own? I mean, WBC all BUT sends death threats, and Scientology has literally killed people. Anita Sarkeesian.... said some things?

The piece wasn't about her, it was about online threats and the lack of legislation that makes it easy for people, often women, to find recourse. On that point, the journalism was spot on. Yes, Sarkeesian is "controversial" in the way that WBC or Scientology is, but she never did anything worthy of a death threat and her high profile makes her a perfectly fine symbol, in a series of symbols, to represent an actual problem.

[–]random12356622 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

WBC didn't kill anyone to my knowledge.

Anyways both Anita and the Westboro Baptist Church have identified issues people care about intensely. They both are despicable, and exploit media coverage, but don't deserve death threats.

The problem with Anita is she takes away from actual problems women in the gaming industry face by perpetuating her victim hood. She shouldn't be the go to media spokes person on women's problems the gaming industry, she is barely a part of it. She doesn't post accurate information anyways, which should be a big red flag of her journalistic integrity.

[–]ifonefoxTheLoop 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think one reason is from here (heads-up: gamergate)

In an older segment, John Oliver encouraged viewers to send insults to a man on Twitter after he complained about online harassment. "If you're this sensitive, then Twitter might not be for you ... you don't need less abuse, you need more."

I have not seen the episode, so I cannot confirm it.

[–]Syjefroi 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Next time watch the episode instead of getting your news from whatever the hell the kotaku in action subreddit is. John Oliver went after the leader of a major country for doxxing citizens for talking shit to him on Twitter, during his weekly address to the nation.

In no universe is this comparable to the segment on women being harassed.

[–]akaTheHeater 7ポイント8ポイント  (5子コメント)

I'd like offer the perspective of someone who doesn't fully understand gamergate, but still turned off the episode a couple minutes in.

John Oliver has discussed a lot of very important topics that don't get enough attention. Online harassment is the opposite of that. It's a relatively unimportant topic that gets way too much attention already. Last week John Oliver read part of a document describing real torture methods used by CIA, this week he showed some people talking about getting insulted on the internet.

Also, John Oliver just wasn't that funny from what I saw. That's just my opinion though, and admittedly I never did finished the episode, so maybe it gets funnier.

Edit: So to answer your question, I think most people were pissed because of Gamergate, but I'm sure there were some people who were just annoyed by the drop in quality.

[–]dandylion84 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Online harassment is the opposite of that. It's a relatively unimportant topic that gets way too much attention already.

You don't happen to have a white penis, do you? :)

[–]sh2nn0n[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or serious. That makes me frown. :(

[–]Teddio 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

What do you mean with "a realitvely unimportant topic"? The fact that so many get harassed and threatened every day just for being themselves and that so many women do not even dare to even mention their gender in any situation in fear of retaliation in the form of rape threats and other forms of harassment is unimportant?

LWT has featured topics such as the lottery, beauty pageants and RadioShack closing, I do not see how this is anything other than a topic that hits too close to home for a lot of the viewers and thus is uncomfortable to watch and easier to push away, and definitely a topic that runs way deeper than "getting insulted on the internet".

[–]random12356622 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

women do not even dare to even mention their gender in any situation in fear of retaliation in the form of rape threats and other forms of harassment is unimportant?

Do you think the space they mention gender is important? 4chan is different than, 8chan is different than, Youtube is different than, Facebook is different than, Twitter is different than, Reddit.

Each space or social media has different rules, and there are plenty of openly female Facebook users. I don't think Facebook would exist with out women, or it would be a very different place.

[–]random12356622 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm a male, gamer, but not a Gamer Gater, and I think harassment of women on the internet is an important issue. I'm definitely not a SJWer and I oppose Anita Sarkeesian.

I don't understand why the media focuses on Facebook, Twitter, 4chan, and other message boards/social media accounts, they are non-gamer issues. They are extra-gamer issues, outside of the games themselves. They don't talk about how gamers value each other, even when they only know each other by anonymous screen names, or how some games make it virtually impossible to value opponents. All they care about is the larger narrative that Anita, and other media spokes people portray.

Anita's complaints are not gamer complaints, they are extra, out of game complaints.

edit: wording

[–]anillop 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just a bunch of professional umbrage takers keeping themselves in the spotlight to make $.

[–]Finch58 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Whist there was nothing wrong with the online harassment segment per say, it featured Anita Sarkeesian and Brianna Wu who are seen by many (and have been proven to be) individuals who spread misinformation about gaming etc. They then spin this in their favor to get more traffic, money and what not. In other words, they are seen by many as being nothing more than professional victims. Now, this is not to say that they deserve what has happened to them or that the actions of those doing it are acceptable. People are just upset that these two had to be the face they put to the names.

As a side issue, some people are upset that the segment took a very one sided approach to the issue. I.e. completely ignoring some of the harassment others experience online, thus making it seem like a gendered problem. Others are also upset because of the alleged hypocrisy shown by John Oliver with regards to his response to different genders getting targeted but the key here is context so these claims should be taken with a certain amount of salt.