12
13

Spokane's NAACP president is trans-racial (aka. very tan) (kxly.com)

RaceBasedIQ が 投稿

全 51 件のコメント
並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]OrionBlarg 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/rachel-dolezal-tried-really-hard-be-black-why

As a veteran I get pretty pissed off when non-veterans attempt to pass themselves off as veterans. There's even a name for this (stolen valor) and in some places is actually illegal. Its not because these people in their souls or hearts believe they are veterans but its because they never had to go through the shit veterans went through. Its not about "earning" veteran status but about the experiences a veteran has gone through that now defines them as a person. With that said I think those particular kinds of assahts have a right to wear military garb, and misrepresent themselves in public (barring legal issues such as applying for veterans benefits) but I have a right to call them out on their asshattery if they assert they are veterans.

This is the reason why I understand so well the anger being directed towards Rachel Dolezal for claiming to be a black person when (so far) all the evidence points that she is indeed white. It doesn't matter so much what she says, or how she identify's but because she hasn't had those experiences for her entire life that would define her as a person to be considered black. The fact that she was born into a white household, raised white, and enjoyed the privileges associated with is precisely why this is so wrong. Race (especially the white/black dichotomy) is a social construct based on a biological reality. The biological reality is really the only concrete part of it and all it does is determine the amounts of melanin in a persons skin and that's about it. All the rest is 100% made up by humans. This doesn't mean it hasn't had a huge impact in reality.

I would really rather not identify myself as white. But I know that in this society I live in, and because I have been socialized as a white person I fully expect that I will be called a white person and treated as such. This also means I'll probably enjoy the privileges that a white person enjoys. That doesn't mean I have to like the false white/black dichotomy or like the systemic racism inherent in our day to day lives. It means I recognize it and that I recognize the problems race presents. They say that the first step to solving a problem is recognize there is a problem in the first place. Had Rachel Dolezal taken this approach while working in the NAACP in Spokane I think things would've been fine. Even the NAACP came out in a statement saying "One’s racial identity is not a qualifying criteria or disqualifying standard for NAACP leadership." (though I can understand it might cause some issues if the head of the NAACP in Spokane was white). Instead she's playing out the role of the "white savior" we see in so many movies (Dance With Wolves, the Last Samurai, Avatar, yes, Avatar....)

What Rachel Dolezal did is wrong for largely the same reasons its wrong for a advocate for veterans (or a politician) for falsely claiming they are a veteran. If I can't trust a person to have served in the military, experienced first hand the culture there, deployed, been in combat or at least present in a combat zone, and understand the nuances of military life to actually get veterans and further their cause, then why should people of color trust someone who hasn't lived their experiences?

[–]sixthcolumnistState of Jefferson 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Stolen Pallor?

I get what you're saying, and I think the issue here is not that she changed her appearance, but that she made up a false narrative because she believed she wouldn't be accepted as what she was. This behavior is more or less echoed with the people who fake military service, or those who have served who fake medals and other service qualifications.

It's one of the things I keep harping on, too often, truth has no constituency. No one wants to hear it so it forms a cancer that grows, in cases like this, it can grow to the point that it alters or destroys lives.

[–]RaceBasedIQ[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

One problem with your argument is that it assumes the oppression stops at adulthood. If you're comparing being black to being in a war... isn't this more like she enlisted?

I'd compare it to going to college first and then coming in at a higher rank but don't get the wrong idea, I've never served my country in the capacity you have.

Thank you for your service, btw!

[–]CitySizedBox 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was temporarily more amused by this, and then I realized she'd basically terrorized a Northern Idaho community with fake hate crimes. Then I was horrified. Cascadia needs better leaders, and I think how we respond to this woman could be a step in creating better leadership for our region. We need to take this opportunity to create a community more in line with what we want.

[–]vaguelyhuman 4ポイント5ポイント  (9子コメント)

IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER: the OP here is a white supremacist who posts on r/coontown. Please keep that in mind when reading their comments.

(This is not directly related to the topic but I thought it was important to mention. White supremacists have frequently attempted to co-opt the Cascadia movement and there is basically an active initiative of Stormfront entryism on Reddit. If we let white supremacists control the discourse, we have failed as a community.)

[–]funkalunatic 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was wondering when people would figure this out. I mean his username is "RaceBasedIQ" for crying out loud.

[–]RaceBasedIQ[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (7子コメント)

I'm not sure why your stalking is relevant to this discussion but at least get your facts straight - I'm not a white supremacist, I believe that human culture is a product of human biology and certain traits, shown by research to be heritable, are. White people need to look out for our race precisely because we are not superior.

I don't think this discussion is welcome here and I'll probably be banned for responding to your concern trolling, if you'd like to discuss this further I know of a few subreddits which allow discussions on race, ethnicity and culture.

You shouldn't link to other subs or call users out on post history, fyi, it invites brigading. Reddit will be a lot safer once Chairman Pao let's us keep our history private.

I don't hide what I believe, look at my username FFS! <3

[–]vaguelyhuman 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

I don't some kind of friendly non-supremacist anthropology hobbyist would spend his time complaining about "coons" and "niggers". If you don't want people to see your posts, don't post them publicly. Clicking on a username is not stalking, especially your username sticks out that egregiously.

If you give racists an inch, they'll take a mile. We've all seen what belief in racial hierarchy leads to. Everyone else can look at this guy's page if they want to know what kind of "discussions on race, ethnicity and culture" he's talking about. White nationalists have one way of presenting themselves to outsiders and another among themselves. They'll use wedge issues and scapegoats; they'll try and shift the discourse passive-aggressively. It's easy to spot if you recognize the signs.

[–]RaceBasedIQ[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

Please stop harassing me, you didn't ask to view my posting history and if you had I wouldn't have consented.

Just because you can do something, doesn't mean that you should. If getting my home address or looking at my children was only 1 click away, would you feel good about that?

I have not misrepresented myself in my discussions here, there is no reason for you to cyberstalk me.

[–]vaguelyhuman 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

I didn't "cyberstalk" you. I literally saw your username, clicked it, and looked at one page.

[–]RaceBasedIQ[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (2子コメント)

So you're saying I don't have the right to privacy online or...?

[–]Saxie81 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is the equivalent of posting something on Facebook and expecting it to be private. This is a public board.

[–]disciple_of_iron 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not when you post things on a public site.

[–]disciple_of_iron 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lol it's a public website jackass no one needs your consent to view anything

[–]KeystoneJesusPortland 1ポイント2ポイント  (8子コメント)

I think it's not wrong that she tried to live as trans-racial, but to try to be a leader in a community that's not her own is really gross.

[–]RaceBasedIQ[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's the problematic result of believing that race is a purely social construct.

[–]sixthcolumnistState of Jefferson -1ポイント0ポイント  (6子コメント)

Not that I completely disagree with you, but please articulate why it's wrong? Generally, I think for a rule to be held true, it should be held true in all cases.

To meld this issue with another one that's currently topical, that of being transgendered. We are faced with two people, one who lived as a man for most of his life, and has very publicly chosen to become a woman, now we have a woman who has chosen to live as someone of a different race. On the whole these two issues seem identical, however here's the rub: everyone who has turned on a TV, internet, social media, newspapers etc in the last month is well aware that Caitlin Jenner used to be a man. However Rachel Dolezal has made every effort to conceal that she "used to be white".

All in all, if we are going to be an open society that embraces the diversity of it's membership I really see no reason we should persecute anyone for his/her lifestyle choices, however what I do think she should be pilloried for is lying. Beyond that, I see no reason not to accept her as transracial.

[–]KeystoneJesusPortland 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Race IS a social construct but it has real political implications, and has a historical context you don't get to one day wake up and claim for yourself. The issue in offering up "race is a social construct" is that people conflate it with "race isn't real" or "race doesn't matter." It is, and it does. A white person deciding to perform blackness can at any point stop the show and reassume white privilege... black people can't "transcend blackness" and get out of being systemically oppressed. So who does the idea or "transracial" benefit? Those who can put it on to gain opportunities -- ones taken from black people -- and can, at any point, take it back off. It's not a compliment, it's anti-blackness.

[–]sixthcolumnistState of Jefferson 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

These are very valid criticisms. However, there is nearly zero precedence for "transracial-ism" So let me ask more questions:

While we can argue that coming from one place of privilege (white female) to another place of privilege (leadership role) whether intentionally, or circumstantially displaces a minority person from that position would be wrong, if this did not happen, and she was living ignominiously as an african american female would it still have the stink of racism on it?

Lets say her transformation into a black female was somehow permanent, i.e. could not be undone with some time and a haircut. Would it still be racist?

Reverse the roles, black female becomes white female, is accepted by "whites" as "white", one day it comes out that she's black but living as a white female, is this racist?

In many ways we as a society have already passed the point where surgical intervention can make anyone appear as something they're not, up to this point, the large push has been on the frontier of gender. However there are a number of outliers such as this case, and arguably Michael Jackson, who underwent a non-trivial amount of surgery to appear more white, despite official denials. But then, Jackson was such an eccentric determining his actual motivation is nearly impossible.

[–]KeystoneJesusPortland 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

She faked hate crimes and also claimed to be part-Native, saying she was born in a tepee and that her family used to hunt with bows and arrows.

[–]sixthcolumnistState of Jefferson 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

As for the faked crimes, that again comes down to lying. Saying she was born in a teepee?

Much of my problem with her comes down to being a lying liar who lies.

[–]KeystoneJesusPortland 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Lies, commits cultural appropriation, assumes the identity of a societally oppressed group without having had to go through any of the real oppression in her childhood... it's insulting

[–]RascalMultitudeSeattle 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Those things affect her validity most definitely, but it shouldn't be "insulting". Be above it and don't be offended by such inane things.

[–]watchout5 1ポイント2ポイント  (16子コメント)

Am I the only one mostly indifferent to this? I mean, okay I get it, lying is bad and tricking people is bad but, I mean, meh. Does it invalidate anything she's taught? Probably not. It's just a useless distraction. So she decided to spend her live attempting to live as a black person. If that's really her biggest weird thing I would contend she's not too bad off. I mean it's Spokane. This is hardly the most news worthy thing that poor city should be known for.

[–]SonotmethenSeattle 10ポイント11ポイント  (8子コメント)

Its pretty disparaging to the people who you are trying to represent, if you think including details like "my sister is addicted to crack" (Note: she doesn't have a sister) simply to sound like you are coming from a black family life by exemplifying a stereotype, then she is actually doing public harm to both perceptions of race, and equality representation.

I hate to think it was the case that she got the job because she "was black" but I don't doubt that played a part in it, and if she appropriated her job at the expense of another black woman, who didn't feel obligated to lie to get the position, she should actually be sued.

By trying not to be racist, she was MORE racist that the average person.

[–]snake_lamp 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Question: the article linked doesn't say anything about her having a sister, let alone that she has a sister who smokes crack. Is some other news source reporting that?

[–]SonotmethenSeattle 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ya, I gotta be honest I've read like 6 different publications about this woman today. I am 2 degrees of Kevin Bacon removed from her as my sister-in-laws coworker grew up with her in Spokane. I'm hearing things from her and the news as well. Shes a real peach its sounding like. And by peach I mean crazy.

[–]RaceBasedIQ[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

You've got to be pretty fucking racist to steal a job from a black person when you're not black and being black is one of the job requirements... that seems correct.

You've got to be pretty fucking sexist to steal a job from a woman when you're not female and being female is one of the job requirements... seems transphobic.

Hrm.

[–]snake_lamp 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Well being black isn't one of the qualifications for her job.

[–]RaceBasedIQ[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

Don't they need to say things like that to avoid a lawsuit? No way the legitimately-black community is going to stand for this.

[–]snake_lamp 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

In general private organizations have the right to discriminate against whoever they want. The 14th and 5th amendments only protect against discrimination when there is some sort of state action. However, the Federal Government also has the power to regulate interstate commerce, so the Supreme Court has interpreted this to mean that if you have a business that is in some way connected to inter-state commerce (such as hotel) then the state can act to regulate private discrimination. Although this is a "view from 20,000 feet" explanation.

And while I'm not sure how you would define "the legitimately-black community," the NAACP was founded by both white and black people.

[–]watchout5 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

and if she appropriated her job at the expense of another black woman, who didn't feel obligated to lie to get the position, she should actually be sued.

If a requirement for that job is that someone be black in order to get it the proof should land on the people who added that as a requirement to do a blood test to make sure. They don't do a blood test because they don't actually care until something like this happens. I don't think she should be sued. Not unless she was shitty at her job.

[–]KeystoneJesusPortland 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's the most extreme form of cultural appropriation. There are high school photos of her as a white teenager, which means most of her life she didn't live with the racism black people have to deal with (especially in a place like Spokane). I can't pretend that I have walked in her shoes and know what she's going through psychologically but she seems to be taking an identity from the black community which is really icky.

[–]watchout5 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

People take their identity from weird things all the time. There's white people that try and look Asian. I guess it's not like they're trying to teach Asian studies classes or claiming that racist things happen to them. People are weird. I'm just not phased.

[–]bearnaut 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

As a whitey, I'm mostly indifferent until someone of color can explain why it is terrible. Granted, it is a bit of a farce to grow up with all that white privilege and then pretend that you haven't benefited from it. My main question is, is she capable of performing her duties in the NAACP despite being white. If she's doing a good job, then I'm inclined to think its strange but fine.

[–]watchout5 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks. I mostly made that post in the hopes people would challenge me but it's good to see I'm not exactly alone. Cheers!

[–]RaceBasedIQ[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

If you believe that white privilege exists, and that things like having two parents, growing up in a stable home and getting a good education are elements of that, then I'd argue that she's used her 'white privilege' to steal multiple positions in society from African Americans.

If you believe that she's sane then it also challenges the narrative that life as an African American is so difficult that no one would choose it. If she's not sane then it's interesting that she's risen to prominence in the black community - that someone mentally ill could become the NAACP president. Either way she's probably doing better pretending to be black than she ever would've as a white woman, challenging the idea that black Americans are still stifled by oppression.

It's comically dire.

[–]watchout5 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

If you believe that she's sane

I called her weird and I wouldn't call her sane. Cheers for the reply though.

[–]sixthcolumnistState of Jefferson 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro - HS Thompson.

[–]Iconoclast674 -4ポイント-3ポイント  (11子コメント)

How do the children of thomas jefferson and sally hemmings identify?

Or the great grandchildren, etc etc.

This is a pointless argument, and if spokane didnt have such a strong neonazi ties it wouldnt make news.

[–]snake_lamp 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

North Idaho has a history with the Aryan Nations and other White Supremacist groups, but apart from an attempted bombing of the MLK day parade a few years ago, I don't think there are any real strong ties to any neo-nazi movement. Spokane even elected an African American mayor nearly a decade before Seattle did, so I think it's a little too broad to say that Spokane has "strong neonazi ties." Hopefully that's not just wishful thinking on my part.

[–]OrionBlarg 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Spokane doesn't have strong neo-nazi ties. If you want to use that logic then Portland has strong KKK ties and the whole state of Oregon has strong white supremacist ties.

So piss off with your overgeneralizations.

[–]Iconoclast674 -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Truth hurts.

Not four short years ago a man tried to plant a bomb at an MLK rally in spokane. He had ties to neo nazis.

How often do the hells angels roll through on a meth supply run?

Why does little ass spokane needs its own chapter of the NAACP in the first place? You might not be treating your colored people so well...

[–]RaceBasedIQ[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (7子コメント)

How do the children of thomas jefferson and sally hemmings identify?

I don't know but it doesn't matter - she isn't biracial, she's Jewish.

This is a pointless argument, and if spokane didnt have such a strong neonazi ties it wouldnt make news.

This story would absolutely make the news anywhere in the US.

[–]Iconoclast674 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

Even if she is "pretending" to be african american, you dont need to be black to care about the advancement of colored people.

I may not be up on my old testament but egypt was in africa wasnt it?

[–]RaceBasedIQ[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

I'm not up on most things, but I think there are skeletal differences through which you can infer ancestry - that's part of the reason why black albinos don't pass.

What do anthropologists say about mummy bones?

[–]Iconoclast674 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Skeletal difference? Pass? Theres some race based iq coded language.

Anthropologist say about mummy bones? "they old."

[–]RaceBasedIQ[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Is it impolite to use the word pass? As in to pass as another race?

Is this racist?

[–]Iconoclast674 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I am jewish with blond hair and blue eyes, does that mean I pass for aryan in spokane?

[–]RaceBasedIQ[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Probably, until you start talking - you people are typically extremely bright. Just look at the list of Nobel winners!