全 9 件のコメント

[–]TRP_Student 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not sure if I agree because doing stuff like "[keeping] an accurate mental log of relevant information," for instance, is breaking your own frame & caving to hers. It's important to be aware of what gaslighting is, but I think it's just a symptom of a bigger problem: she doesn't respect you.

[–]nugboots[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

On the contrary, it makes it much easier to hold your frame. If you are 100% certain your memory is serving you correctly, it's a lot harder for any "puppy dog eyes" etc. routine (where she's trying to appear innocently let down by a mistake you've made) to make you doubt yourself.

[–]Suravira -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

Dread game is abusive

Improving yourself is abusive?

Furthermore at TRP we hold ourselves fully responsible for all the wrongs in the relationship, as we could have played it better.

We don't have any problems with girls trying to gaslight us, but the point of it is that they're not respecting you and they're not a good person to be a LTR.

Every single statement you've made, is really blue pill, I think you need to lurk more. Like this.

You broke a promise which means a lot to me. In future, we're going to have a rule that our promises are absolutely golden. Just don't promise anything unless it's 100%, and we'll be fine.

Like this is just plain sad, like Jesus Christ.

[–]Hohwrath 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

You sound like you are still in the anger phase. I'm not going to speak to dread game being abusive. However, I will say a bit about your thoughts of the alledged "bp statements."

Have you read Models by Mark Manson? It is a book that every Redpiller every man should read. He writes about a concept known as Vulnerability. Vulnerability is the strength of being aware and concious of your emotions, and communicating them effectively. It is a sign of strength, it means you aren't afraid of being judged or critized based on how you feel. If someone does look down on your emotions, then to hell with them.

OPs recommending that we be vulnerable, and share how we feel hurt and don't want it to happen again. This communicates strength, it is setting boundaries and communicates how we feel effectively.

I completely understand the mentality of not showing weakness. Perhaps you recommend applying a healthy dose of dread game after an incident like this. Hell, that might work for you. However, I have found that it leaves both parties feeling confused and insecure with the relationship.

It sounds a lot like a concept in Paul Eckman's (the body language guru) book, emotions revealed. He mentions thats some people have a tendency to stonewall during fights. To completely ignore emotions and act like a stonewall. This is because they feel overwhelmed by all of the emotions. They aren't comfortable, and retreat out of fear. You have to be careful about stonewalling, it seems strong and RP, but it is in fact BP.

In conclusion, OP is possibility a fag, but I found the advice relevant and helpful. YMMV

[–]nugboots[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a balance of both.

In my experience, dream game and other PUA approaches work wonderfully for ramping up attraction, and should absolutely be kept chambered. The point is that they work by creating massive emotional surges in the girl (so she "hamsters"), which can be a double edged sword if allowed to run wild.

If your plate fucks up, absolutely tell her off for it and run the standard dread game.

I am suggesting that you also do so with such a strong frame and memory that she cannot possibly doubt you, and suggest a way to win back your validation to reduce the risk that she will instead attempt to bolster her self-esteem by convincing herself that you were gaslighting her.

[–]nugboots[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Improving yourself is abusive?

Absolutely not, and you're deliberately trying to strawman me. I never said the entirety of dread game was abusive, let alone improving yourself. Deliberately trying to fuck with someone's psyche, however, which can constitute gaslighting, could be abusive. I recognise that TRP is amoral, so I didn't press the issue; you're simply trying to score points here.

We don't have any problems with girls trying to gaslight us, but the point of it is that they're not respecting you and they're not a good person to be a LTR.

You could easily say the same thing about any obstacle of "game" - last minute resistance, shit tests, bitchiness, etc. If you're high enough SMV, you won't have to deal with these problems. The difficulty is that very few people are at that level - most people will encounter some issues with girls from time to time and it's appropriate to talk about strategy dealing with those issues.

Like [this quote] is just plain sad, like Jesus Christ.

You shouldn't need to quote things out of context to prove a point. Firstly, I already acknowledged that it's perfectly valid not to tolerate such a mistake (hence "assuming you're going to continue the relationship"...). Secondly, the context was that you're definitely letting her know she made a mistake but also giving her a way to improve in future. I didn't think I needed to spell out that this would be delivered sternly, after other dread game (e.g. silence), etc... nor that if you have properly done your job of setting boundaries and she then violates it, you would hard next her... but apparently I do.

In future, if someone is posting on TRP, it might be wise to assume they abide by TRP wisdom unless they explicitly disagree with it. I've done nothing of the sort.

The theme of my post was control. You will occasionally encounter tests from women (shit tests, bitchy behaviour, gaslighting, whatever). The BP way to deal with it is supplication. The PUA way to deal with it is essentially ramped up asshole game. I suggest that the TRP way is establishing and improving an almost patriarchal control of the situation and guiding any of her self-destructive emotions to a more beneficial way.

[–]f3yleaf -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

OP is viewing the world thru a mainstream/feminist lens. OP should stop doing this. If a woman feels im being emotionally abusive(and I disagree) she is free to leave, the end.

Its not often I recommend people think LESS, but in this case I will.

edit: dont be a shit, dont tolerate shit, be emotionally honest, simple.

[–]nugboots[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

OP is viewing the world thru a mainstream/feminist lens.

It's mainstream insofar as I acknowledge that men can make mistakes, and communication is important in relationships. It's feminist insofar as I acknowledge that gaslighting exists as a form of abuse.

It's TRP insofar as I argue that gaslighting can be deliberately used as a sexual strategy by women, or falsely rationalised to make them feel better about themselves, and that greater male control and guidance can help rectify potential harms.

If a woman feels im being emotionally abusive(and I disagree) she is free to leave, the end.

I totally agree with the abundance attitude, but why wouldn't you also want to potentially dodge the issue in the first place? (In much the same way that we advocate lifting and general self-improvement, primarily for yourself but with the side benefit that you won't have to deal with as much shitty behaviour from women.)

dont be a shit, dont tolerate shit, be emotionally honest, simple.

To an extent, sure, but my post also sought to deal with more than that. What about when a girlfriend says "aw, you promised!" to something and you genuinely can't remember, so you feel a little guilty? What if she fails to meet an expectation but you're not sure you communicated well enough to really blame her for it? How do you show non-tolerance of shitty behaviour without giving her material that her girlfriends will use to convince her that you're abusive and should cheat, which might hurt (emotional attachment to a girl isn't anti-TRP, after all) or fuel more drama?

I'm recommending small tweaks. Mentally recap any drama afterwards, so you can always maintain frame with complete confidence. Communicate your boundaries more clearly. If she fucks up but you still want to keep her around (perhaps she's an LTR), tell her how to become a better woman, rather than just heaping scorn on her.

A "hard next" for a girl (or its offer) is sometimes appropriate, but it can also sometimes be better to stick with a certain situation and learn how to fix it. That way you'll never have to hard next over it again, and it'll save you time and happiness.

[–]f3yleaf 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I disagree with nothing you said, its perfectly possible to fuck up a ltr by acting alpha when its not appropriate, I would not be with my girlfriend if I could not be 100% myself with her.