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I failed. (self.Bitcoin)

orpel が 投稿

So yesterday I got offred a new job in a town I love, the job is php development. I went around the town to celebrate and ended up in a bar talking to a very nice bar maid (as you do). Anyway, later that evening a bunch of teenagers and some middle aged people walked in and started setting up a projector. Turns out it was a lecture in the bar, I though "cool" and I stuck around to watch one of the kids and one of the lecturers do talks on population and the neuroscience of diet, respectively.

During the lectures one of the teenagers walked up to the bar and I started chatting. I got onto the subject of technology and asked if they'd heard of Bitcoin. They had but they said they knew almost nothing about it. I said I'd be really more than willing to do a presentation on it next time they put some lectures on in the bar. They seemed very excited and after I gave them a brief description of some of bitcoins fundamentals, what it can be used for etc they were even more excited. Later on I spoke to one of the "adults" and told him I'd love to do a talk about it etc. He was incredibly dismissive, he basically told me they were only interested in putting on actual scientific lectures. He said that Bitcoin was not a maths, physics, biology or chemistry subject and then he literally turned his back on me mid sentence and started talking to one of his peers. Bare in mind this gentleman also decides what is lectures are put on.

I just felt very surprised and powerless in the face of such complete ignorance. The blame is also partially mine as well though. I found it very easy to talk to the 18 year olds about it but when I tried to explain it to him it was very difficult for me because I felt like he had already come to a conclusion as soon as I uttered the word "bitcoin". I'm usually very very good at reading people at that fact was written all over his expressions and tone.

Sorry I failed. But I will not stop trying.

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[–]greencoinman 57ポイント58ポイント  (4子コメント)

Nah dawg, you didn't fail. Sounds like you did what you could in the best way possible.

You would have failed if you got all red-faced, screamed at the guy, called him a "sheeple" or "a shill", and proceeded to harass him over the phone for the next 6 months.

Keep on truckin'. /u/changetip 1 gold star

[–]orpel[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks man :) Yeh fortunately I realise that the best thing to do when people are ignorant is just to ignore them.

EDIT: Though I am human and sometimes my emotions get then better of me.

[–]klondike_barz 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

or called him a bitcorn

[–]greencoinman -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nah, that would have been dope.

[–]changetip 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Bitcoin tip for 1 gold star (4,009 bits/$1.00) has been collected by orpel.

what is ChangeTip?

[–]SundoshiNakatoto 43ポイント44ポイント  (10子コメント)

Don't mention bitcoin, just mention cryptography, block chain technology, etc

[–]orpel[S] 6ポイント7ポイント  (9子コメント)

This was my plan, partly. I was planning on calling the talk "cryptocurrencies"

[–]SundoshiNakatoto 11ポイント12ポイント  (6子コメント)

Probably too much still with 'currencies' being in the word

[–]orpel[S] 7ポイント8ポイント  (5子コメント)

Yeh possibly but i'd rather just be honest with people than get them interested based on obfuscation.

[–]notreddingit 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Modern applications of cryptography.

[–]throwthecan 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

World wide ledger or blockchain technology probably works better with sheep.

[–]Anndddyyyy 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Is that why those two terms are so popular in this sub lately?

[–]SundoshiNakatoto 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I see it more as in "gentle introduction". Educate people first on the general things, then go into the deeper stuff. Once they understand that cryptography is math, truth, and how block chain works, you unravel the amazing digital gold: Bitcoin. BOOM, they will now understand it :)

[–]imaginary_username 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I thought we all agreed a while ago to go under the cover of "bitcoin bad, blockchain good"! =D

[–]Debtyg 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think you need to use some trick by trying again: send someone as a trojan horse to setup a talk about eliptic curves: about encryption, bruteforce, hacking techniques &/or other attractive computer science topics.

Then when youll get permission to enter the room full of teenagers, prepare the speech for rapid topic about Bitcoin!

Be honest, but no one can guarantee that you might go offtopic.

P.S. old retards die soon, if not in reality, at least morally

[–]cpgilliard78 72ポイント73ポイント  (32子コメント)

Yeah bitcoin has nothing to do with math.

[–]mustyoshi 32ポイント33ポイント  (21子コメント)

Bitcoin involves math the same way flying an airplane does.

It's a rudimentary part, but not the main attraction.

[–]timetraveller57 4ポイント5ポイント  (9子コメント)

I don't think you realise how bitcoin draws on the power of multiple infinities.. actually, most people probably don't.

A closer analogy would be 'bitcoin involves maths the same an aeroplane involves aerodynamics'

[–]zcc0nonA 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

can you expand on this please?

how bitcoin draws on the power of multiple infinities

I'd like to know more. I have some understanding of the working of ecdsa if that helps at all

[–]Rawlsdeep 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

multiple infinities

Entropy? I have no idea, just thinking out loud. Never heard it put that way though.

[–]asherp 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well it's like when you have one infinity, but you add more of them.

[–]timetraveller57 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Whenever I explain it, it always turns out that I've been talking to trolls. Not saying you are, just saying I've wasted my time each and every time before (which is kind of frustrating).

So I stopped myself explaining it a while back. But I'll say it in brief.

Infinite addresses (they can be increased) - maths

Infinite coin (within a finite amount) - maths

Infinite maths (the maths that the network works on is infinite) - maths

A while back some clever mathematician discovered the multiple infinites, numbers within numbers. It was pretty, but at the time not so applicable. Such things have been used in physics since. Bitcoin also makes use of combining multiple infinites. This is rather powerful, and obviously maths based.

[–]Steve132 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Infinite addresses (they can be increased) - maths

Actually there are a finite number of valid addresses....it's just a very large number. 2160 actually

Infinite coin

I mean, there are currently a maximum of 21m bitcoins.

the maths that the network works on is infinite)

This is too vague to be interpreted.

[–]notjustaprettybeard 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hmm, this is quite a slippery topic. When you say addresses can be increased, do you mean that they can be of arbitrary length? I thought the number of addresses was unfeasibly large but fixed? Also it was my understanding that a coin couldn't be divided below one satoshi. Both of these are sized so that in the real world we won't run into problems in the lifetime of planet Earth, but that's not infinite.

[–]jonmurk -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would also like to know

[–]xanatos451 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd say a more apt analogy would be math in regards to how a computer works. It's not just a part of the design and planning but a fundamental piece of the technology itself.

[–]bitsteiner 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I guess one got about the same reception when wanting to lecture about aerospace technology in 1909.

[–]Natanael_L 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, taking medicines ought to be on the same level, then.

[–]coinaday 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

I don't know, I think math is pretty essential to a discussion of the core principles of aviation just like it's pretty essential to a discussion of the core principles of bitcoin. The bitcoin whitepaper is mostly math.

[–]Sukrim 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

The bitcoin whitepaper is mostly math.

It contains a few formulas, there is not a lot of actual math involved...

[–]SwagPokerz 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

The bitcoin whitepaper is mostly math

It's mostly math in the sense that it's written according to logical thinking.

[–]coinaday 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

And, you know, the math in it...

I realize I slept through a lot of it (because of my inability to handle number theory, not because of being awesome at it), but I swear, that cryptography course I took in college was in the math department, not the computer science department, and it wasn't miscategorized...

[–]XxionxX 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's not like there are entire branches of mathematics based on logical truth or anything. /s

[–]SwagPokerz 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

How is that relevant?

If the bitcoin whitepaper is written according to logical thinking, then does that imply that it's mostly math?

[–]XxionxX -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hey, you are the one who asserted that the white paper was mostly logical thinking. I was just pointing out that mathematics == logical thinking.

Idk where you are going with your assertion.

[–]mustyoshi 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, but I don't have to know any of that math in order to sit in economy class for 2 hours.

[–]a5643216 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

But it has everything to do with meth.

[–]orpel[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

Lol, yeh that was my reaction. I would have explained but he just completely stopped engaging me like I said.

[–]XxionxX 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maybe start with a conversation on cryptography and reference bitcoins crypto?

[–]chriswilmer 13ポイント14ポイント  (3子コメント)

You could mention things like the Bitcoin Research Group at Stanford, the digital currency initiative at MIT, and soon you will be able to refer to a new peer-reviewed academic journal dedicated to Bitcoin (and cryptocurrency) research... if that's what it takes to get "adults" on board :)

[–]orpel[S] 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think I'll just approach the actual bar owners and put on my own lecture rather than try and convince some people that arn't interested in to letting me into their group.

[–]redfacedquark 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

With blackjack and hookers!

[–]gotnate 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

In fact, forget the presentation at the bar!

[–]cqm 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

WHO ELSE THOUGHT OP LOST HIS JOB

[–]crbncll 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

Reading the title I expected something like 'gambled and lost my children's savings and got divorced'.

[–]giszmo 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was also waiting for the punch line but neither did the waitress' bf beat him up, nor were the "kids" some satanists. Sounds like a very casual story to me with "waitress" and "fail" only being remotely of importance.

[–]IttyBittyCoins 9ポイント10ポイント  (10子コメント)

Playing devil's advocate a bit... Even though math is fundamental to Bitcoin, it doesn't mean Bitcoin is a math subject. The two topics you heard the youth speak on were population, and the neuroscience of diet. And then, the "adult" you spoke to mentions math, physics, biology and chemistry subjects as options... all quite distant from Bitcoin.

It doesn't sound like economics or computer science are relevant subject matters based on the information you shared in this post, and gathered from the "adult".

Perhaps there are some prejudices from the "adult", but perhaps you may have misinterpreted some of those prejudices from emotional conclusions.

[–]saibog38 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Any explanation of how bitcoin actually works revolves heavily around public key cryptography and hash functions. Those are entirely mathematical subjects.

Unless OP was planning on glossing over those topics and just giving a high level overview, but I somehow doubt that considering his background is as a developer. If you just go over what's in the white paper, it'll mostly be math along with how to tie those mathematical tools together to get bitcoin.

[–]SwagPokerz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I somehow do not doubt that, considering his background as a developer. Most people don't know the maths behind public key cryptography or hashing functions to a degree adequate enough to provide a lecture, even in a bar.

[–]coinaday 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

quite distant from Bitcoin.

...really? Math is quite distant? First off, computer science is quite arguably just a branch of math. And second, how exactly would you walk someone through the bitcoin whitepaper without math?

You do realize that cryptography is a mathematical subject, right?

[–]IttyBittyCoins 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Practically everything in computer science relies on math, but that doesn't mean they're mathematical subjects. This guy grouped "math, physics, biology, chemistry", and it's reasonable to infer they're looking for more traditional discussions in said fields, rather than reaching the conclusions you are making.

The quickest analogy I could come up with without spending a lot of time thinking about this is art. If there was an art group, speaking about only art subjects, it would be understandable if they shunned a discussion on Adobe Photoshop.

[–]Steve132 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean, what, cryptografically uniform hash functions, rings of elliptic curves on finite prime fields, proof-of-work certificates, big-O complexity theory, the byzantine generals problem, merkle trees, oh yeah, all that just isn't mathy at all, like photoshop.

[–]coinaday -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

it would be understandable if they shunned a discussion on Adobe Photoshop.

If the discussion were about Adobe Photoshop, perhaps. But if they simply refused to acknowledge that art could be produced by that medium, they aren't actually talking about all art. Perhaps they should retitle their group "pre-21st century art" or similar.

Practically everything in computer science relies on math, but that doesn't mean they're mathematical subjects.

Right, "relies on math" does not imply "mathematical subject". Nonetheless, practically everything in computer science is math. It's a particular sub-field of math, but excluding computer science from math makes as much sense as excluding a discussion of prime numbers because you just don't like that subfield as much.

And, again, cryptography is a mathematical subject.

[–]SwagPokerz -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

computer science is quite arguably just a branch of math

As computer science has led to developments in the foundations of math, it could be argued that math is a branch of computer science.

[–]ferretinjapan 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think you failed. You managed to get the younger students attention and it's not your fault the "adult" was immediately dismissive. The fact that he turned his back to you mid-sentence speaks volumes of his holier-than-thou and arrogant mindset. If we listened to people like him, it's likely we'd still be stuck in the middle ages.

Just remember, you don't need to convert the room, there will always be people that just don't want to listen, you've already planted the seed in one impressionable mind by the sounds of it, so it was time well spent. Don't let yourself get despondent over the dinosaur that refuses to see the meteor on the horizon ;).

[–]waigl 19ポイント20ポイント  (10子コメント)

Hate to break it to you, but the guy was right: Bitcoin has no place in lectures about hard science, it isn't hard science. The crypography and mathematics behind it are, but Bitcoin itself is "only" a technology that builds on these things.

[–]redfacedquark 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

While I mostly agree, the Bitcoin blockchain is also an experiment that involves squishy things with desires and fears. Testing a mere implementation of software as a means to transform society is hard, experimental (social) science.

I wonder if there are any other social science experiments of such a scale?

[–]IttyBittyCoins 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Social sciences were not one of the examples mentioned by the "adult".

[–]redfacedquark 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I got to the end of that post and hadn't used the word social. Once I realised it should be there I had to put it in and knew I was about to get askscienced.

[–]BlockchainOfFools 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Bitcoin is essentially a pro-decentralization philosophical movement with a clever system for proving exactly how much one has (literally) 'bought in' to the concept.

The math enables this buy-in system to exist, but it is not the motivation for it to exist.

[–]Steve132 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean, it's not a practical application of a proof of work scheme or a real-world demonstration of elliptic curve cryptography or the first algorithmic solution to the byzantine generals problem. I mean who cares about any of that stuff, it's just tulip bulbs and pyramid schemes.

[–]euxneks 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bitcoin has no place in lectures about hard science, it isn't hard science.

wat.

[–]SwagPokerz -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It would seem I don't agree with your definitions.

[–]Big_Man_On_Campus -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I would hardly call the neuroscience of diet a "hard science". Also, the internet is a network allowing people to communicate, and the oldest form of human communication (bar none) was the exchange of value. We exchanged value before we had language. So how exactly is a lecture on using computer science, mathematics, network science to solve a social science problem not worth talking about?

[–]Hddr 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Did you tell him to call you 5 years from now ?

[–]DakotaChiliBeans 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

He sounds like core dev material.

[–]mercistheman 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Edison "I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work". You only fail when you quit trying for something you truly believe in.

[–]gustavo19871 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

or did you succeed?!

[–]bleach86 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I have been into bitcoin for a few years now, but I still don't fully understand the backend workings. Isn't hash functions, algorithms, and cryptography all scientific "maths"? I feel that that gentleman just fears what he does not understand, and instead of trying to understand it he simply cowers away from it.

[–]a5643216 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

hash functions and cryptography is not purely math, as they mostly rely on common beliefs rather than hard proofs. And at the heart of bitcoin is game theory -it relies on the assumption that all players pursue their best interest, which is also not a given ..

[–]Steve132 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

hash functions and cryptography is not purely math, as they mostly rely on common beliefs rather than hard proofs.

This is gibberish. If the algebra of rings of elliptic curves over finite prime fields isn't math, I don't know what the hell is.

And at the heart of bitcoin is game theory -it relies on the assumption that all players pursue their best interest, which is also not a given

If john nash wasn't a mathematician then I don't know who the fuck is.

[–]TheRugAteMyShoe 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I didn't even know science lectures in bars was a thing... maybe I should go to more bars.

[–]a5643216 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Kids just found a way to get boose and loose girls

[–]TheRugAteMyShoe 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know, I know some girls that would be all over that shit. Geekery transcends all genders!

But still... in a bar of all places? Very strange venue. But now that I think of it, I only think that because it's not common practice... maybe it should be.

[–]AstarJoe 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Blockchain, buddy. Blockchain.

Adoption of a new value transfer mechanism invoves several psychological barriers to entry that you must first overcome. Blockchain, on the other hand, as an entry to further discussion on a token to propagate it, is far more fascinating for those not predisposed to listen to terorist drugmoney pedophilia silkroads.

Just have the kids watch this video. They'll melt at Nelson Mandela and if they don't then you don't even need to waste your time with them. <see luddites>

Don't sweat all this stuff. The meteor of digital currency is coming. It has entered the stratosphere. They can bray at it all they want and gnash teeth, but it has been invented, and it will not go away.

[–]btcdrak 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Show him the lectures made by several Princeston University professors for their course on Bitcoin. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNcSSleedtfyDuhBvOQzFzQ

[–]n1nj4_v5_p1r4t3 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You did not fail. You succeeded. Just mentioning it is a success. I tried to get a estate sale to take it, they took credit cards. They said no in the end, but while talking about it 15 people stopped what they were doing and just listened, frozen. They wanted to know more but were afraid to explore.

[–]BitcoinOdyssey 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

mention... but don't push.

[–]chiefy81 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

"If you don’t believe me or don’t get it, I don’t have time to try to convince you, sorry."

[–]jimmyjammer0090900 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

But your experience demonstrates that for a certain generation it's easy to be dismissive of Bitcoin because there is no incentive to understand. The younger generation gets it much easier. And they will lead the charge.

[–]868795879 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Next time say you want to do a talk about blockchain technology. They'll be all over it. ;-)

[–]bruce_fenton 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Go back and tell him that instead of Bitcoin you want to discuss distributed ledgers which do not need a trusted third party for verification due to math. :)

[–]cjmalloy 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Next time offer to give a lecture on blockchain technology.

[–]orpel[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I didn't give a lecture.

[–]cjmalloy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Edited for clarity.

[–]kiisfm 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Old people are dumb and stubborn 😣

[–]orpel[S] 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Some of them are, same as some young people are as well.

[–]CryptoEdge 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Blockchain technology... that's the media approved term which commands formal discussion.

[–]Methylfenidaat 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sorry I failed.

No, you did not fail, that guy failed for being stupid and not being open to new things.

[–]Illesac 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Blockchain lecture

[–]coinlock 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

People are really pedantic about this. Its an application of a lot of different hard sciences that produce a practical solution for distributed computation with certain caveats. It's interesting because it combined existing concepts in a very novel way, and someone actually had the skill to put it all together. In computer science its definitely a cutting edge application, but wouldn't qualify as a hard science topic by itself.

[–]uninsp_translat 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He probably thought you had some kind of MLM angle.

[–]DraconPern 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You'll have better luck with the economics department.

[–]targetpro 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You could always try the new keyword that all of Wallstreet is intrigued by. "It's not about bitcoin, it's about the blockchain." ;)

[–]kcfnrybak 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Failed???95 percent would not have understood you. 3 percent including the "adult" would have thought your crazy. The other 2 percent might start looking into it.

[–]idlestabilizer 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The seed might already be planted...

[–]jesuscrypto 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you learned something, you didn't fail

[–]WackoMarco 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just like the early internet.

[–]Anen-o-me 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bitcoin is actually an incredible cryptography / maths application.

[–]samedhi 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

He may be conflating "scientific" with "peer reviewed"? I don't know.

Did he seem like a professor? Perhaps he is really doing these presentations in an attempt to justify tenure. The things academics do to gain tenure can often explain seemingly irrational behavior in academics.

Side quest: Since btc evidently does not involve math, get him to explain the blockchain, ledger, hell, any part of btc without using mathematics. If he can do that, he wins, and has made his point.

P.S. The fact that he walked away as you were talking says way more about him than it does about you.

[–]fpvhawk 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

give his entire class Bitcoins and watch how the whole class raves about it, he will be surround by Bitcoin that his head will explode

[–]H0dI 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Shoulda mentioned silk road cause that's been in the mainstream news, and also satoshi nakamoto

[–]transisto 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You failed at writing a descriptive title that's for sure.

+1 Keep trying...

[–]BetterThenCash 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dont worry, if Bill gates can overlook the impact of the Internet when it first came to be, then I am sure other intelligent people can overlook Bitcoin in the same notion.

[–]d4d5c4e5 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

This reaction has nothing to do with Bitcoin, it has 100% to do with the organizer having to maintain dominance in the face of a new threat to his deal. If you had proposed lecturing about say differential equations or matrices he would've found a completely different justification, but likely would've snubbed and disrespected you all the same. The way that you get a Bitcoin lecture going in this kind of circumstance is casually talking to the person in charge and building a repore, and at some point mentioning an interest in Bitcoin, and subtly you can weave it as though it's non-threatening and having a Bitcoin talk is his idea. People are often defensive and weird about their stuff, and unless you really hit it off personally with the dude in charge, it's hard to imagine how being a newcomer cold pitching a lecture would possibly go anywhere.

[–]coqui33 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you had proposed lecturing about say differential equations or matrices he would've found a completely different justification, but likely would've snubbed and disrespected you all the same.

This.

[–]BitcoinMD 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

It strikes me as odd that these stories always involve people being extremely rude in response to Bitcoin. Teachers writing "ponzi scheme" on school reports, etc. No one ever just says, "That sounds interesting but I'm not sure that it will work." This makes me skeptical.

[–]bitsteiner 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Propose a lecture about the dangers and threats of virtual currencies (Silk Road, ransom, financial risks etc). "Stay away from Bitcoin!" - negative psychology works wonders.

[–]coinslists 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You tried.

[–]Hunterbunter 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

It is maths.

[–]seven_five 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think in this case it is helpful to reframe your position as a computer science problem - specifically that of transmitting trusted information through an untrusted network, aka the byzantine generals problem, which has been a standing problem solved by recent progress. The solution, a technology known as the "blockchain", is what allows digital scarcity and thus cryptocurrency to be possible. Bitcoin is then just one instance of cryptocurrency, but it could also power decentralized prediction markets and other such things. This might be a more helpful approach.

[–]paleh0rse 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

You should have asked him why he doesn't believe Computer Science is a science.

[–]AurynMacmillan 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Definitely not a fail on your part, it really is a shame when people are so close minded. Assuming you can get a read on these type of people prior to mentioning bitcoin, I've found it productive to start directly with the underlying tech. For instance, you could suggest a lecture on decentralised consensus protocols, of which bitcoin is just one of many examples and possible applications.

[–]euxneks 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He said that Bitcoin was not a maths, physics, [...]

Here is where you should have elucidated for the clearly uneducated.

[–]NoGooderr 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The dude who turned your back on you probably sold all his BTC at $3

[–]using_my_alias 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Maybe a copy of Satoshi's white paper would of been handy.

[–]coinaday 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

...I'm now thinking of a little pocket-sized edition of the whitepaper, like the people who carry around a copy of the US constitution...

[–]a5643216 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bitcoin Gideons international?

[–]Tectract 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

turned his back on me mid sentence

F that guy, he's not worthy of your knowledge.

[–]Cocosoft 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

No but the teenagers.

[–]scotty321 1ポイント2ポイント  (9子コメント)

I've noticed the exact same thing in my discussions. The "adults" are extremely dismissive of Bitcoin, while the "kids" are super-excited about it. However, one thing that I've done that gets even the "adults" to be excited about it (if they will give me a few extra minutes of their time) is if I can get them to download the Airbitz wallet (which is my #1 favorite wallet app, because it includes a local directory AND users are in control of their own keys AND it has a very user-friendly experience). After they download the Airbitz wallet, I instantly send them $1 or $2 worth of Bitcoin. As soon as they receive it on their end -- just a moment later, with no fees nor bank accounts on their end -- they unanimously light up with excitement. And the cool Airbitz sound effects makes even the most jaded adult giggle with glee. People need to see it in action to truly understand it.

[–]SwagPokerz -1ポイント0ポイント  (7子コメント)

they unanimously light up with excitement...

... which disappears when you have to explain to them that they cannot spend that money until they get at least one confirmation, because there's a design flaw called "transaction malleability", and no one has been able to muster a solution with which everyone agrees well enough to deploy meaningfully.

[–]scotty321 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

Nobody that I have EVER interacted with has a problem with waiting a few minutes to spend the money that they just received. How quickly can you spend the money you receive via a credit card payment or Paypal or Venmo? Up to 3-4 business days? And then have the money potentially reversed on you 6 months later? No thank you. I'd rather have Bitcoin. After one confirmation, I can pretty much guarantee that the money is mine and in my hands. After 6 confirmations, I know that it is virtually impossible for the transaction to reverse.

[–]SwagPokerz 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

You should see what happens when someone receives $5 worth of bitcoin, tries to send $2.5 to his son, and then immediately after, send the remaining $2.5- change to his daughter. "What? It's been 30 minutes, and I still cannot send a lousy $2.5?" (you know, "variance" and all).

That is only a problem because of transaction malleability; otherwise, it would be perfectly acceptable to chain a series of unconfirmed transactions.

[–]scotty321 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, I can understand the disappointment that someone might have in a situation like that. I think the best way to handle a situation like that would be to set the expectation ahead of time by saying something along the lines of, "I'm about to send you money, but to ensure the security of the Bitcoin network, you won't be able to send your newly-received money right away." Or something like that. You can probably come up with something better than what I just came up with.

[–]mikeyouse -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

How quickly can you spend the money you receive via a credit card payment or Paypal or Venmo? Up to 3-4 business days?

1 business day

And then have the money potentially reversed on you 6 months later?

Paypal to friends/family and Venmo use irreversible transactions..

[–]scotty321 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Friday after 7pm: Won't receive funds until Tuesday. Can probably start spending it on Wednesday. 5 days.

Hey man, you know what the beauty of Bitcoin is? You can use it if you like it, and you don't have to use it if you don't like it. Unlike fiat currency, which is forced upon us at gunpoint.

[–]mikeyouse 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lol.

[–]SwagPokerz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree, Scott. You're absolutely right. However, let us face up to warts that people not like us cannot see past.

[–]hellomyfrients 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Next time, every time you're about to say "Bitcoin" just say "blockchain" instead. Great success.

[–]SwagPokerz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

As you've portrayed the situation, it's not just ignorance; it's willful ignorance. There's nobody who can be interested in science and yet so rudely dismissive without there being some kind of underlying disease: I wouldn't be surprised if he's a "Family Man" churchgoer whose ridiculous beliefs produced a fuck up son, and thus he blames "dark" subjects like Bitcoin for his own failures.

[–]rydan -5ポイント-4ポイント  (3子コメント)

You are talking about a very niche distributed system that has been hijacked by Libertarians. I'm not surprised by their reaction.

[–]jimmajamma 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Hijacked huh? Where do you think Satoshi sits on the political spectrum? Have you read the bitcoin whitepaper?

[–]Introshine -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You just met a butter. Next time you have to throw some Fiat at him and he will do a little dance.

[–]velociralex -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

The guy sounds like a pretentious dick, overcompensating for the fact that he found himself lecturing on this "legitimate scientific study" of fucks in a fuckin' bar. I'd probably be a dick if I couldn't even get a hotel conference room to rent the space for a few hours' lecture. Screw that guy, I'd focus more on the kids who were interested. Talk to the bartender or the manager and see if you could request a time to come in and do your own lecture. The kids would come. You got the upcoming generation of technology interested in bitcoin? That's a win.

[–]saddit42 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

probably he bought in for $1000 and sold for $400 and now hates it or something like that.. keep your head up..

next time

[–]crimi666 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

You should have asked if they heard about Ufocoin. Would be at least a good laugh :)

[–]globramma2 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Stop trying to hard-sell bitcoin. People aren't stupid; they'll get interested when the technology offers COMPELLING advantages in functionality or cost savings for the average user.

And at this point, bitcoin doesn't. Face book, apple, google, mcdonalds, ford etc. didn't get to be the institutions they now are through excited proselytizing and marketing alone - there had to be a compelling PRODUCT underneath, something that sells itself based on its merits. Bitcoin doesn't, for most people, yet. That's why you got egg on your face. Next time it may be a pie.

[–]darrenturn90 -4ポイント-3ポイント  (5子コメント)

not maths

Cryptocurrency, and assymetric encryption is maths.

Physics

The size of the blockchain, the growth of storage space, transactional speeds, sidechains and whatnot is physics.

Biology

The human advancements that are possible due to the nature of finance and smart contracts on an unforgable cryptocurrencies blockchain is biological.

Chemistry

The way it all works together is chemistry.

[–]coinaday 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

I admire the attempt, but I think the last three are just a little bit tenuous...

[–]redfacedquark 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Physics for sure, information theory, the minimum cost of computation, the reason why some aspects of Bitcoin were chosen.

Biology too, every transaction represents human efforts to build our colony. At least as important as the social rules in ants or bees.

Chemistry might be tenuous but I've mentioned on here my thoughts on wetware mining, so there's that.

[–]coinaday 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah, there's certainly a possible argument for physics, but it's not particularly core to the field in my view. Again, I can see the argument, I just don't think it's especially strong. Information theory is more of an application than a core subject for physics.

By that argument, biology includes all of anthropology, economics, etc. But your typical biologist wouldn't agree with such an expansive definition of the field I don't think. The generally accepted boundaries for biology typically exclude the higher-order complexities of human society. It's not about whether the social rules for ants and bees are more important. It's a matter of not just shoving everything into the same box just because it could possibly be conceived of. In fact, it's the fact that the social rules for bees and ants aren't as important that they aren't generally considered worth their own subject.

...Yeah, I'm going to stick with tenuous, but if you want to link said thoughts, I'd probably be at least mildly amused...

[–]redfacedquark 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Hope it gives you a good belly laugh!

wetware mining

[–]coinaday 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Have a tRNA-like bit of molecular machinery to zip down the strand of DNA and produce a hash (this is the hand-wavy bit).

Well, I'm definitely giggling here at least. :-)

I'm not expecting to see that take off anytime soon, but props for creative thinking I suppose. ^-^