上位 200 件のコメント全て表示する 402

[–]newdefinition 678ポイント679ポイント  (159子コメント)

Actually, this "right to silence" seems to be very misleading because that's not all that's covered under the Mirand rights there's also the right to an attorney. And the court said that these two rights have to be invoked in the same way, essentially by requesting them:

  1. You have to ask for a lawyer. This right doesn't mean that the police will either get your lawyer or appoint a lawyer for you, unless you ask for one.

  2. You have the right to not be questioned. This is almost always called the "right to remain silent", but apparently what it actually means is you have a right to request to end the interrogation.

[–]Aurfore 262ポイント263ポイント  (96子コメント)

Wait, so that's what they're doing on those law T.V. shows when the person says they want to end the interrogation, not the "no comment" thing?

Wow that's pretty nifty.

[–]newdefinition 140ポイント141ポイント  (93子コメント)

I guess so, as someone who's seen miranda rights read on TV about a thousand times, I guess I never really understood what "right to remain silent" meant?

It seem like if the purpose of reading someone their Mirandas is to inform them of their rights, the script they've been using is pretty terrible?

[–]secretpandalord 191ポイント192ポイント  (86子コメント)

The "right to remain silent" is to inform you that you are under no obligation to say anything or provide any information, and any information that you do provide is entirely at your discretion and of your own free will.

What it basically means is that you don't have to help the police build a case against you; you have the choice to do so if you wish (such as making a confession or participating in an interrogation), but you do that at your own risk, and any information that is gained from it is fair to use against you in building a case (unless that information was obtained subsequent to violating one of your rights, such as refusing to provide an attorney).

In nearly all situations, the safest thing to do for everyone involved is to request an attorney immediately.

[–]newdefinition 30ポイント31ポイント  (81子コメント)

The "right to remain silent" is to inform you that you are under no obligation to say anything or provide any information, and any information that you do provide is entirely at your discretion and of your own free will.

According to this, that's not what it means. It seems like you can request to exercise your right to remain silent, which means that they can't interrogate you anymore.

[–]personablepickle 36ポイント37ポイント  (78子コメント)

Eh... "interrogate"... sure, we'll get you a lawyer... shall we just keep you here while you wait? Maybe make some small talk totally not designed to make you spill the beans before that lawyer arrives, which would totally be your choice, not "interrogation"? Higher courts err hard on the side of cops. They can do all kinds of shit the layman would call entrapment or coercion. Source: IAAL.

[–]2bored2carethx 98ポイント99ポイント  (74子コメント)

Making "small talk" with a client that has invoked and asked for an attorney will get your case smoked faster than you can say miranda violation.

[–]below_parallel 12ポイント13ポイント  (4子コメント)

What he said .

Once a person has invoked their right to an attorney, anything a police officer does that even smells like they are trying to elicit an incriminating response will very likely render all subsequent statements made by the suspect inadmissible.

Souce: Iama Cop

[–]eanx10018 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

and that's why cops use parallel construction

[–]Djones0823 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Like...building on the opposite side of the street at the same time to save on skip costs?

[–]why_rob_y 11ポイント12ポイント  (68子コメント)

I don't know. He at least claims/pretends to be a lawyer - why should we trust you?

[–]JRutterbush 9ポイント10ポイント  (16子コメント)

Speaking of claiming to be a lawyer, I've always wondered... cops are allowed to lie during interrogations. Are they allowed to have a cop get in a suit, come in and claim to be your lawyer? My instinct says no (I'm sure there's some law somewhere against impersonating a legal representative), but the way a lot of these pro-cop rulings have gone in situations like this, I'm not entirely sure...

[–]friendsKnowMyMain 42ポイント43ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nah. But they are allowed to pose as a high schooler to coerce mentally handicap kids into getting them drug s, and then arresting them.

[–]MisleadManny 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

For some reason I pictured a cop in full uniform trying to squeeze into a one-piece rubber suit, like a Halloween costume, in order to look like a lawyer.

[–]tosss 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm pretty sure that fall under the unlawful practice of law. It would also be police misconduct, coercive, and easily suppressed.

[–]Magiobiwan 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

That is most definitely not allowed, and ANY Judge would throw the entire case out at that point. The officers involved would also be in some PRETTY serious shit for such a tactic.

[–]VegPicker 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

Police officers are allowed to lie about facts, i.e. "your conspirator is in the other room telling us you did ___" or "your fingerprints were found on the weapon".

What they cannot do is lie about the law: "There's nothing illegal about setting someone else's house on fire" or promising you immunity and then not delivering, "If you confess, I promise we won't bring any charges against you." However they can say similar things like "The sooner you tell us what happened, the sooner you'll be able to see your family again."

And no, by pretending to be a lawyer they are interfering with your right to an attorney.

IANAL

[–]below_parallel 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Cops are allowed to lie and the courts will assess each case as appropriate. The concept is that the lies can't be overly coercive. If you tell an innocent person a lie e.g. "A witness identified you at the scene." An innocent person would counter with a rejection statement. In fact guilty people will deny true facts. Suspects caught on camera wearing the clothes they're wearing at the time of arrest will deny everything. The idea is that certain lies would not cause an innocent person to confess to a crime they didn't commit.

Promises of leniency, physical threats, threats of punishment, are not allowed because of the possibility of coercing innocent people into confessing to crimes they didn't commit to avoid harm.

Entrapment is related because if the police lie in a way to cause someone to break the law they would not have on their own, that would also not hold in court.

[–]Isentrope1 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Miranda actually doesn't even apply when it comes to prison informants. The rationale is that Miranda protects against a coercive environment and a prisoner does not feel coerced by questions from a fellow inmate. I'm sure if the government somehow tries to argue for a rule allowing fake lawyers, they're going to rely on that "logic".

Still, SCOTUS is not too happy with deliberate attempts to fuck with Miranda. The so-called Miranda two-step that police departments were developing to undermine Miranda warnings was struck down in Missouri v. Seibert, which is one of the only cases where a subsequent statement was suppressed.

[–]orangeblueorangeblue 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Interrogation" is something that is intended to illicit an incriminating response. Shooting the shit with a suspect isn't an interrogation unless you actually ask about the alleged crime.

Former prosecutor

[–]TaxExempt 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

The worst is when a grand jury subpoena is sent, the FBI will often include an invitation to meet with them beforehand. It is worded in a vague manner in order to sound like it is required like the subpoena is.

[–]Seadgs 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, you can't cure stupid.

[–]muxman 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've got nothing to say, I want a lawyer.

That's the only sentence you should say if you get arrested. Nothing else.

[–]hodyoaten 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Is this the same as the Fifth Amendment? I was reading the 5th the other day and it only spoke of not having to answer for capital and infamous crimes.

[–]UnhWut 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's related. It's the right to not incriminate oneself.

[–]Isentrope1 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Miranda broadly protects the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination in the particular circumstance of a custodial interrogation. The Court had reasoned that factors in a custodial interrogation (often there's a strong coercive environment) made it so that people could not reasonably be expected to invoke their Fifth Amendment rights, and so it created this broad "penumbra" around the Fifth Amendment that made statements suppressible if you weren't given proper warnings.

It's similar to the protection around the First Amendment. SCOTUS extends this penumbra to protect against a "chilling effect" on speech.

[–]orangeblueorangeblue 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

The script you see on TV is pretty accurate compared with the one actually used in real life. The five main parts are: you have the right to remain silent; anything you say can and will be used against you; you have the right to an attorney; if you can't afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you; you can exercise these rights at any time.

[–]ftalbert 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Would like to point out that there is case law that holds police officers do not have to follow the script exactly, but only need to convey the general meaning. For example saying "what you say may be held against you" is an acceptable version of "what you say will be held against you." Also from limited experience police departments issue a card with the wording they prefer and most police reports, that I have read, dealing with an arrest contain the phrase "I read the suspect his Miranda right from my department issued card."

[–]orangeblueorangeblue 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, it doesn't need to be verbatim, merely sufficient to notice the suspect of his/her rights. The card is used as more of a checklist than a script.

[–]AdamsHarv 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Part of the reading of Miranda Rights is to inform. A major reason behind it is to offset the cohesive atmosphere in an interrogation room.

By reminding you that you have rights, the hope is that it will keep you from being pressured into confessing to something you didn't do.

[–]Pork_Taco 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

The "no comment " thing is referred to as pleading the fifth. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mdeo7Q2E5cE

[–]The_Yar 29ポイント30ポイント  (6子コメント)

  1. You have the right to not be questioned. This is almost always called the "right to remain silent", but apparently what it actually means is you have a right to request to end the interrogation.

Right, and specifically in this case we have a suspect who at first just ignored questions, but then later started answering questions. Were his rights violated? I agree probably not.

[–]newdefinition 17ポイント18ポイント  (5子コメント)

He had the right to an attorney and the right to remain silent and he also had the right to be informed of those rights (or maybe the police had the requirement that they inform him). It could be that his right to "silence" or an attorney wasn't violated, since apparently everyone has to request to exercise both of those rights. But I would say that he wasn't properly informed of those rights (I'm not sure if being informed is a right or not?)

Saying "you have the right to remain silent" doesn't inform someone if they don't know what that entails, and don't know that they have to request to exercise that right for it to to have an effect.

Which is somewhat worrying because I thought I knew what it meant when someone was 'mirandized', but I guess I didn't.

[–]The_Yar 11ポイント12ポイント  (4子コメント)

"You have the right to remain silent; anything you say can and will be used against you."

I think what case law has borne out is that if you say "I'm not answering any questions until I have my lawyer with me" then they can't keep badgering you with questions. If you've told them you're not answering, and they pour on the pressure, then they are violating your rights, and things you say might not be admissible.

However, if you just don't answer at first, but then later start answering, this isn't necessarily violating your rights.

[–]Mythic514 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

If you've told them you're not answering, and they pour on the pressure, then they are violating your rights, and things you say might not be admissible.

In that scenario, things you say will not be used against you. If you unambiguously request an attorney, the interrogation must cease until an attorney is present (who normally just says that you, the client, won't answer more questions). If you unambiguously invoke your right to silence, then the interrogation must cease until you voluntarily re-engage the police in answering questions. If they ask you questions in a manner likely to get you to elicit an even remotely incriminating answer after you've invoked your Fifth Amendment right, it is a coerced confession and is totally inadmissible from that point forward, and any evidence flowing from that point forward is inadmissible as well.

In my opinion, it's pretty easy just to demand an attorney. Then you're good. Most repeat criminals (who know the system) understand that this is the first thing they have to do. Others not so much. I have no real sympathy for a criminal who forgets to invoke his right (after it's been explained), and then gets caught for a crime he actually did commit.

[–]The_Power_Of_Three 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

If they ask you questions in a manner likely to get you to elicit an even remotely incriminating answer after you've invoked your Fifth Amendment right, it is a coerced confession and is totally inadmissible from that point forward, and any evidence flowing from that point forward is inadmissible as well

Actually, this is not the case. Fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine specifically does not apply to Miranda violations. So, if, for example, you confess that you shot a man and threw the murder weapon in the dumpster, the police could still search the dumpster and use the weapon you told them about as evidence against you. They could not use your specifically inadmissible confession directly, but any evidence "flowing from that point forward" actually is admissible.

[–]cpolito87 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do you have a case that says that? I thought voluntary statements given without Miranda warnings were an exception to the doctrine. Evidence found by way of coerced statements made after an invocation of Miranda rights could still get FOTPT protection I thought. Otherwise it'd be beneficial for police to beat confessions out of people. They may not be able to use the confession itself, but any evidence they find from it would be fair game.

[–]Mythic514 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Actually, yeah, you are totally right about the fruit of the poisonous tree. That's my mistake. But the actual confession would still be inadmissible.

[–]german_nerd 6ポイント7ポイント  (9子コメント)

This needs to be taught in school. I am 25 and had no idea that was the true meaning of those rights.

[–]Vogey 12ポイント13ポイント  (12子コメント)

So wait, you can completely end an interrogation just by asking? Why doesn't everyone do that?

[–]RagnarTheDestroyer 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

You kind of just answered your own question.

[–]darthn3ss 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

People are stupid, think they can lie their way out of things. Also, the cops can lie to you.

[–]Comment_Cleaner 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

So wait, you can completely end an interrogation just by asking? Why doesn't everyone do that?

So wait, you can completely end an interrogation just by asking?

That's why

[–]Vogey 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

How is that why? I thought the whole point of the Miranda rights was that Miranda was poorly informed about his amendment rights and was exploited because of this, therefor he won a huge civil case for this. I thought the whole purpose of them was for people to know their rights and to not get exploited in this way. Like even i thought you had to just sit through the interrogation and dodge all their questions if you didn't want to cooperate. But you can literally just end the interrogation willingly.

[–]Jagoonder 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Because, if you haven't noticed TV cop dramas pretty consistently portray the police/citizen relationship in one of two ways.

The first way this relationship is portrayed is that if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to worry about. And if you cooperate with the police they will "help" you. And if there has been some miscarriage of justice by cops framing people, it's most always past tense and these guys here that you're watching and who are the stars of the show are the "good" guys, you know the ones that put their careers on the line for everyone who is honest. And you, being a good person who just made a mistake have nothing to worry about and therefore go into a detailed confession.

The second way in which it is portrayed is those who ask to see a lawyer. Usually this person is some rich person who is clearly a villain or some horrible criminal that we already know has committed a horrible crime perhaps even a leader of some CP ring who is selling his nieces to the the highest bidder. These are the people who invoke their rights and lawyer up as soon as they're brought in or whose lawyer is already waiting for them at the police station.

And this is why people in real life don't invoke their rights more often even when the justice system they think they know through a lifetime of dramatic portrayals isn't anything like that at all.

[–]newdefinition 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd guess because it's never explained clearly?

[–]BrewCrewKevin 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

  1. because most people don't know that. (Like you).
  2. Because sometimes, if you are innocent or only loosely involved, you are better off cooperating with police. If you make their job easier, they will make your job easier.

In shows and movies, the "right to remain silent" is typically portrayed as this conversation during an interrogation.

Person: Am I under arrest?

Detective: No.

Person: So I'm free to leave then. I'm leaving. Thanks.

They show it a lot on Law and Order. The only way they can hold a person for questioning is if they find something to arrest them with. But they need to have a sufficient case against them first, because then it's going to trial.

[–]neut6o1 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because humans are weak and can easily be manipulated psychologically. Especially by people trained to do so.

[–]Nichijo 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

OK, now it makes sense. I was thinking, how do you 'invoke' a right to be silent? By being silent!

Requesting an end to interrogation is a different thing.

[–]newdefinition 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, is confused too, it served very unclear

[–]Tapir_That_Ass 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Just for clarity, you can request to end the interrogation, but do they have to fulfill this request? Are there times when they don't have to?

[–]Miorde 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Have you ever heard the phrase "pleading the fifth"? The Fifth Amendment states "...nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself..." Basically, if you state unambiguously that you don't want to answer any questions without a lawyer, the questioning is over with. You dont have to say anything, and it won't be held against you.

If you do foolishly start talking, you can't just refuse to answer specific questions without that being used against you.

[–]Jagoonder 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You dont have to say anything, and it won't be held against you.

But this isn't how it works. Does it? I've never been interrogated. My knowledge is strictly academic, not that I've studied law but I've done my fair amount of research into basic rights regarding these situations.

On the other hand I've seen enough cop dramas to know that if you cooperate, that is to say confess, the cops will "help" you. Whereas, if you want to make their job more difficult they'll throw the book at you.

I say that with a bit of sarcasm because while a part of me "knows" that to be true, another part of me knows better and to ask for a lawyer. But many people do not know better and assume what they've been taught over their lifetime by pervasive and persistent cop dramas is how it works.

[–]RogRoz 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is only partially correct. The facts of the case are very important in determining the resulting decision

Berghuis v Thompkins (no implied invocation; implied waiver possible)

• Cops give good warnings and D declines to sign the waiver form

• They then questioned D for 3 hours and he pretty much stays silent but gives a few answers and head nods

• Then at the end of the questioning a cop asks him about God and D makes statement admitting he feels guilty for shooting a boy

• So can there be implied waiver of right to silence?

• D argued that he remained silent for so long that it was implied that he had invoked right to silent and they should have had to lay off to scrupulously honor his silence

• Court said you must have unambiguous expression of invocation of right to silence and silence isn’t enough to be invocation (no implied invocation)

• Court held that there COULD be implied waiver of right to silence under 3 circumstances:

1) if you got good warnings

2) as long as person has understanding of the rights and this understanding can be inferred from conduct and here his speaking and giving some answers was conduct that showed his understanding

3) no evidence of coercion

• So because D didn’t expressly invoke right to silence and he impliedly waived right, D’s waiver was valid & confession was allowed

TL:DR If you have been read your Miranda rights (meaning you are taken into custody and being interrogated) and you do not talk, that silence can not be brought in trial for any purpose. If you want to invoke your right to an attorney, it has to be clear and unambiguous. If you are sitting there and being quite the cops can still talk to you, and if you then confess you can't say "But I had invoked my silence".

[–]newdefinition 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I understand the case, what I didn't understand before was what the "right to silence" means. It doesn't mean a right to remain silent, which is what I thought. If that's what it did mean, this case wouldn't make any sense. What it means is that you can request for them to stop asking you questions.

And that makes sense in context of this case, and it makes sense when compared to the right to an attorney. What doesn't make sense to me is telling someone they have "the right to remain silent" means they have the right to stop questioning.

The point of requiring police to Mirandarize is so that people will be aware of their rights, if you just name the rights, but give them a name that doesn't make any sense, it doesn't seem to fulfill the required purpose. It seems like when someone is arrested they should be told:

  • You have the right to remain silent

  • Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.

  • You have the right to request an end to questioning

  • You have the right to an attorney.

  • If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you.

[–]dougmc36 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

... and on top of that, you do indeed have the right to remain silent.

The problem is ... he didn't use this right.

Thompkins was asked in sequence - did he believe in God, did he pray to God, and did he pray to God to forgive him for shooting the victim. He answered "yes" to each of these.

Had he just remained silent, this court case wouldn't have happened. And to be fair, asking for an attorney or explicitly saying that he was invoking his right to remain silent (a contradiction of sorts, but OK) would have also worked, and perhaps worked even better, because both would have protected him from his later utterance. But remaining silent would have worked too.

In spite of the sensationalism that has surrounded this case, the courts made the right call here.

[–]Hysterymystery [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Here's a video of an interrogation out of Indiana. They basically yelled at him for asking for a lawyer.

Kind of an interesting case. They most likely tried to frame him and his friend by planting his DNA. They were acquitted, fortunately.

[–]Senor_Tucan 240ポイント241ポイント  (83子コメント)

Ask for a lawyer and be quiet.

[–]hurtsdonut_ 105ポイント106ポイント  (32子コメント)

Yep as soon as you say you want a lawyer and you're not talking they're done questioning you.

[–]gee_iwonderwhy 28ポイント29ポイント  (31子コメント)

Swiftly followed by a solid kick to the head and no one on The Blue Gang will ever face penalty.

[–]UnqualifiedToComment 73ポイント74ポイント  (14子コメント)

Swiftly followed by a solid kick to the head and no one on The Blue Gang will ever face penalty.

Yep. Still better than giving them something they can slice-and-dice to make you look guilty.

[–]Isentrope1 25ポイント26ポイント  (1子コメント)

SCOTUS actually just ruled on how to prove unreasonable force by police. Use of force to elicit a confession or an incriminating response is also a violation of the Fourteenth Amendment and could not be introduced at trial.

[–]workneeddoing 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's why they get together beforehand and practice their story.
The suspect got angry and attacked us.

[–]Angrant96 10ポイント11ポイント  (12子コメント)

Is your ass ever jealous of the shit that comes out of your mouth? Because that is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever seen someone claim.

[–]pidgeondoubletake 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Are you talking from personal experience, our out of your ass?

[–]2muffins 30ポイント31ポイント  (8子コメント)

[–]deanreevesii 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Love this video. Might try watching out at 80-90% speed this time. So much information he tries to cover, it's like the micro machines announcer at times.

[–]BallisticGE0RGE 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Great video, watched the whole thing, very informative.

[–]SlowRollingBoil 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

This should be shown to everyone. I can't believe how many times watching movies you'll see the "Uh, I'm not talking.....yeah, I was there but I didn't do it!" Bitch, you just talked.

This videos perfectly sums up both from a defense attorney perspective and a verified police interrogator perspective why you should never speak to police more than what is legally required.

You may be hauled in for a crime you know you didn't commit and you weren't in the area and you know you can prove it easily. Even in a situation like that where you know it's crazy easy to prove, you still don't talk to police. Your testimony even in clear defense can often prove your guilt.

The whole point of the video is that talking to police is absolutely never worth it. You get your lawyer, you exercise your right to remain silent until they arrive, they get you the fuck out of there.

Also, I'd like to add, people need to use the oft-made fun of "Am I being detained?" It really is essential to use. A cop can walk up to you and say "I have some questions for you." If you ask "Am I being detained?" and they say "No" then you can walk the fuck away.

If you're brought into a holding cell and they question you you are there voluntarily until you ask. If they're not charging you with a crime or being detained you can get up and walk the fuck out. Any barriers to that? Once again - get a lawyer!

[–]SonicBanjo 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Very interesting video to watch!

[–]7blue 12ポイント13ポイント  (34子コメント)

What if you don't have a lawyer or can't afford one? What if your lawyer's number is on your cell phone and that is confiscated. When you ask for a lawyer, what does that entitle you to in real life situation?

[–]panderingPenguin 10ポイント11ポイント  (12子コメント)

What if you don't have a lawyer or can't afford one?

There's actually an office of lawyers called public defenders created specifically for this situation.

[–]3riversfantasy 7ポイント8ポイント  (7子コメント)

In my experience the requirements you need to meet be awarded a public defender are absurd. Essentially if you have any property they expect you to sell it or take a loan against it. My request for public defender was denied because I owned my car whose value was about 6500...

[–]SternLecture 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't understand. they want you to be super poor?

[–]3riversfantasy 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

No, they only pay for public defenders for the poorest individuals, they assume everyone else can afford an attorney. The gap between not qualifying for a public defender and affording a lawyer is quite large...

[–]SternLecture 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

sorry I read it as you were trying to become a public defender...I coudln't figure out why they wouldn't accept you because you had a car.

[–]BradleyCooperDildo 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Sorry your state has unreasonable rules, I'd guess somewhere in the South?

For anyone else reading this, be advised that public defenders are usually pretty good lawyers, though very overworked. Just remember that each state has different requirements as to who is eligible for what services, never assume!!

[–]3riversfantasy 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The "New South" aka Wisconsin. As far as I gathered my income was small enough to qualify but because I owned my car and had no outstanding debts my assets were too high. I think they also look at the severity of the case (2 misdemeanors for me) to determine what attorney fees should be. The problem I ran into was the gap between you qualify for a public defender and actually hiring a lawyer was pretty massive.

[–]doubleclapton 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Fuck this entire system.

[–]3riversfantasy 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah its utter bullshit. The justice system preys on people they know can't afford a lawyer. They throw some absurd charges and the DA offers a plea bargain for a smaller offense because they know you can't afford to dispute the charges.

[–]ChronicYonik 15ポイント16ポイント  (17子コメント)

If you cannot afford a lawyer, the government is required by the constitution to pay for a public defendant for you.

[–]ProbablyProne 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

Except they dictate what that means by "cannot afford an attorney". It can mean "there goes your house and car, bitch".

[–]7blue 3ポイント4ポイント  (12子コメント)

Would that realistically mean you wait in custody (a cell) while you wait for a free lawyer before the interrogation? Or does that have nothing to do with how long you are jailed (is that what bond is?)? Just wondering so as to be informed of my rights while also I'd like to know how not to get caught up in the red-tape system like these poor guys that wait over 1yr in custody without even a trial.

[–]HarbingerOfFun6 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

The answers to your questions vary based on context and jurisdiction.

You have to remember that most of the time people don't get arrested for really "serious" things. The police aren't brining in murderers everyday (outside of Detroit that is). Instead, most of the people who get arrested are for misdemeanors (like being drunk in public, or fighting).

In cases like that the police aren't going to interrogate you, and you get a lawyer when you go to court for your first appearance.

Now if, on the other hand, you do decide to kill someone (or do so accidentally), which I'd advise you not to do, they'll get you a public defender or some kind of defense counsel even if you don't know any lawyers who aren't fictional.

I'd like to know how not to get caught up in the red-tape system like these poor guys that wait over 1yr in custody without even a trial.

That situation usually pops up after the first appearance, so after our hypothetical interrogation. The reason those guys sit in jail for so long is either because they can't make bail OR because there is no bail because they're charged with some heavy shit, it's usually because they can't make bail.

Tl;DR: They'll get you a lawyer, though it may take time varies based on where you are, what you did. Don't kill people. If you're going to commit crimes, make sure you have someone willing to put up bail, otherwise be prepared to play Let's Make a Deal.

[–]7blue 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'll bet this is a jarring experience for most that have to go through it. Never ran particularly afoul of the law, but I'd rather know how it goes just incase! or if a friend or loved one has to go through this sort of thing. Sadly I know that proper repre$entation usually means spending enough for good council in terms of getting a fair outcome. Thanks for the clear explanation!

[–]ASpooky_Ghost 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Now if, on the other hand, you do decide to kill someone (or do so accidentally), which I'd advise you not to do, they'll get you a public defender or some kind of defense counsel even if you don't know any lawyers who aren't fictional.

So I can't request Matlock?

[–]kailkay 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Matlock

I think it's time for your pills, there, gramps.

[–]omrog 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd have gone with Vinny Gambini and his girlfriend.

[–]Sparkykc124 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Half a million people are in jail right now in the U.S. because they can't make bail.

[–]Sparkykc124 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is only true for certain levels of crimes and is dependent on how much money you make, not how much you have.

[–]BgDog18 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

you can call your relatives or get in contact with someone after seeing the judge for arraignment (ask for a call).

Realistically; they will not question you again but you may not talk to a lawyer for yourself in couple of day if you don't have $$ or contact #'s.

[–]Choralone 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

They can't question you untily you have legal representation. If you don't get your own, they'll have to find one for you if they want to question you.

[–]FrenchFriedMushroom 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've been arrested twice (once on vacation because I was drunk and found a hot head cop, and the other because I was a massive idiot). Both times they let me get phone numbers from my phone to call my lawyer and family/friends.

The second time my phone was actually dead, and they let me charge it so I could get the number for my lawyer.

[–]jpop23mn 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's what gets me about the show the first 48

All these young gang members getting questioned for a long time without a lawyer and answering questions. If I was the leader of a gang I would have a monthly meeting about being questioned by the police.

[–]slohcinretrac 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Best advice ITT. Source: I'm a lawyer.

[–]NickPickle05 23ポイント24ポイント  (12子コメント)

Just out of curiosity, what happens when the police go to arrest someone and read them their Miranda rights followed by the question "Do you understand these rights as I have read them to you?" and the person says "No."? Are they required to get someone to explain it to you?

[–]verywidebutthole 16ポイント17ポイント  (6子コメント)

I don't feel like researching it but here is what I remember:

It depends on what happens next and the court will sort it out later. You have to have actually understood your rights. By saying yes, you are telling them you understand and when the question is brought up in court later there is a very strong presumption that the yes meant yes. If you say nothing at all, as long as the rights are read to you in a language you understand, there is also a very strong presumption that you understood. If you say no, and the cops proceed to question you anyway, the court will employ a totality test to determine if you understood or not. Basically, they will look at whether you know the language, your intelligence level (you'd have to be mentally handicapped for this one to go in your favor), if it was said clearly, if you were handed a written copy which you read, if you were in a subway station with a train incoming, etc.

Edit: There is a "heavy burden" for the prosecutor to show you waived your rights "knowingly and voluntarily." In reality though, if you are read your rights and you talk there is almost always an implied waiver.

[–]NickPickle05 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

So what if you say no I dont understand. Then proceed to ask them exactly what the right to remain silent entails? What does it cover? What does it not cover? Do I have to do or say something to invoke these rights?

Furthermore, lets say that I am completely aware of these rights but decide to "play dumb" and ask exactly what these rights entail. If the officer fails to (assuming he has to at all) adequately inform me of all possibilities (which is the most likely outcome unless he has a law degree) couldn't the person being arrested have their case thrown out simply by saying that his rights were not adequately explained to him?

[–]politburro 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

If you're playing dumb, the prosecution in court will say you're playing dumb and simply pretended not to understand to try and invalidate any questioning.

[–]verywidebutthole 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

There really isn't must to explain. Miranda rights kick in when police start questioning you. Before you are subject to questioning, you have to know that you don't have to answer any of those questions and that you can have a lawyer with you while being asked those questions.. They don't have to explain, and you don't have to be aware, of the legal ramifications of your answers to their questions other than the fact that those answers can incriminate you later in court. I guess you can play dumb and ask what a lawyer is, or what a court it, or what incriminating mean, but that just goes to the test to determine whether you understood the warning or not. The court will likely see through your bullshit.

edit: also, you have to know that if you can't afford one, one will be provided for you. The word "afford" is actually very important. There have been cases where that part was mistranslated to "if you don't have a lawyer" or something like that, and the evidence was suppressed.

[–]NickPickle05 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ooooh. Thanks. This is the answer I think I was looking for. The fact that they don't have to explain what the right entails makes things a lot more clear. So the best answer a person can give is "I understand these rights and choose to remain silent until such time as my lawyer is present and can provide me with further legal advice."?

[–]blinker14 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

The Miranda warnings were intentionally written by scotus to be easy enough for even an idiot to understand. That being said, if they claim to not understand, the cop will most likely read them again and ask which specific part they don't understand. Most likely the person is just being intentionally obtuse lol.

[–]Moose_Hole 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Clearly given the comments here many people don't understand the thing about being able to end the interrogation. People say they understand, but most people don't.

[–]JRutterbush 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

"I do not understand these rights, and request to have my lawyer explain them to me personally."

[–]LaPoderosa 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just because you don't understand your rights doesn't mean you don't have them or that they change in any way.

[–]Choralone 21ポイント22ポイント  (5子コメント)

Miranda is not your right to remain silent.

Your right to remain silent is already there. You don't have to say anything.

Miranda is a set of guidelines based on court precedent for when and how the authorities have to proceed with informing you of your rights, and how they have to react to your responses.

Invoking your right to remain silent, in this context really means invoking your right to not be interrogated further until you wish to speak.

[–]Dash_Shill 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Your right to remain silent is already there.

Except now they can use your silence against you unless you explicitly assert your right to remain silent.

[–]zekezero 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Friend of my mine represented Miranda on remand.

[–]necromundus 43ポイント44ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Your honour, I made the 'zip your lips shut, lock it, and throw away the key' gesture."

[–]euphratestiger 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

I always thought it was pretty simple: you're allowed to stay silent (i.e not obliged to answer questions) but if you talk, we could use what you say against you.

Same with a lawyer: you can have a lawyer if you ask for one.

The police don't impart these rights to you, you already have them. When they read you your rights, they are simply reminding you that you have them.

Is that not correct?

[–]Choralone 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, it's correct. Those rights are fundamental. You have them always.

The reason we have miranda laws and whatnot... some procedures to follow, is because before htat, the police wouldn't do shit. THey'd arrest you, put you in a room, and badger the shit out of you. If you wanted to stay quiet, they'd keep badgering you. If you told them you didnt' want to talk.. they'd still badger you. After all, if you don't want to talk, don't talk, right? That doesn't mean they can't keep asking.

Miranda came about because this was seen to be wrong.. we force some procedure on the authorities to even things out a bit.. so once you say you aren't going to talk, they are supposed to respect that.

[–]dangerstein 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

I am bothered that Sotomayor is the thumbnail picture for this, because I believe she dissented from this opinion.

[–]DubinJohnson 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Me too. It was her first major dissent. She argued hard for the implied right to remain silent. From her dissent:

"[A] valid waiver will not be presumed simply from the silence of the accused after warnings are given or simply from the fact that a confession was in fact eventually obtained [...] the fact of lengthy interrogation... before a statement is made is strong evidence that the accused did not validly waive his rights. In these circumstances the fact that the individual eventually made a statement is consistent with the conclusion that the compelling influence of the interrogation finally forced him to do so. It is inconsistent with any notion of a voluntary relinquishment of the privilege."

[–]Choralone 16ポイント17ポイント  (7子コメント)

Ehh.. you right to remain silent is absolute. You can simply remain silent.

Your right not to be pestered until you talk (miranda) is what applies when you declare your intention to remain silent.

Before miranda law, you just had to keep your mouth shut (which was your right) - but the police could keep badgering you anyway, just in case you talked.

[–]DreadPiratesRobert 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

No you need to invoke it. You also can't selectively answer questions. If you start answering questions about something specific, then invoke your right, it doesn't matter.

[–]Choralone 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

You misunderstand. You always have the right to say nothing at all.

[–]OldCarSmell42 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

But you must invoke that right or the cops will continue to question you.

[–]Choralone 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yes.. but you still have the right to not say anything.

[–]Douggem[🍰] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bad summary. The cited case involved a suspect that waived his right to remain silent, started talking, and then clammed up when asked a particular question. That is the silence that was used against him. Had he just remained silent the whole time, even without proclaiming he was invoking his 5th amendment rights, he would have been fine.

[–]redroguetech 29ポイント30ポイント  (37子コメント)

When a right is a right only when waived by demanding it.

[–]WizardTrembyle 47ポイント48ポイント  (9子コメント)

The right to remain silent doesn't mean the right to be mute and have your wishes known via telepathy. You have to invoke the right to end interrogation, otherwise the police don't know if you are refusing to answer the current question, but are willing to answer the next question, or the one after that, etc.

Technically you could just stay silent, but they can keep interrogating you, and your refusal to answer is then admissible evidence. There is a distinction between, "I am invoking the fifth amendment," and, "I'm just not talking."

[–]Jaunt_of_your_Loins 7ポイント8ポイント  (5子コメント)

So the difference between invoking your right to stay silent and staying silent is in the former they have to, by law, stop questioning you?

[–]WizardTrembyle 15ポイント16ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yes - invoking your fifth amendment rights means that they are no longer allowed to question you. It's important to recognize the distinction between custodial and non-custodial interrogation, though. Custodial interrogation means you are detained, and cannot leave at will. The police are required to read you the Miranda warning in this case, and you are then obligated to explicitly invoke your 5th amendment right to end the questioning.

Non-custodial interrogation is different - you are free to leave any time (although the police are often deliberately ambiguous about whether or not you are free to leave - which is why I begrudgingly acknowledge that the "Am I being detained?" jackoffs on YouTube videos are doing the right thing.) However, they don't have to read you the Miranda warning for non-custodial interrogation, although you still have the right to invoke the 5th amendment, or simply leave at any time. If you don't, what you say is still admissible in court, since you freely provided to an officer that was not detaining you.

[–]Gorkymalorki 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

And in those situations you run the risk of saying something that does make you a suspect that they can detain.

[–]WizardTrembyle 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Correct. Unfortunately, history has proven there is very little to be gained from cooperating with the police in most cases, even if innocent, and a lot to lose.

[–]pliers_agario 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pretty much. Staying silent is a form of an answer, and does not stop further questions. Saying you invoke your constitutional right to not remain silent is not an answer, and stops the questioning.

[–]Turtle-Bear 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, but also it's clear that you understand. Police deal with a lot of people of varying intelligence levels and varying ways of dealing with stress. They keep asking questions until you invoke the fifth amendment because they don't know for sure that you either don't understand the current question or are unwilling to answer that particular one.

I do feel like on all interrogation room walls they should have a sign in both English and Spanish that says something akin to, "You have the right to remain silent and you have a right to a lawyer and if you can not afford one we will provide you with legal defense of no cost to you." That would be the best way to do the Miranda rights thing.

[–]redroguetech 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The right to remain silent doesn't mean the right to be mute and have your wishes known via telepathy.

Oh, so you read the article too? Good job, and good tl:dnr (though I'd have added "The Supreme Court ruled...." at the beginning).

So far as I know, no one is arguing how SCOTUS ruled, though some might argue why.

[–]elconquistador1985 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's misleading to call it the "right to remain silent" when you actually have the right to say "I won't answer questions. I want a lawyer appointed for me" so that you may receive proper legal advice before/during answering questions should you choose to do so. Nothing is contradictory about this. Police aren't telepaths and neither are you.

[–]redroguetech 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You must waive your right to remain silent in order to invoke your right to remain silent... That may not seem contradictory to you (or 5 members of the Supreme Court), but it does to me.

Also, you (and, again, 5 members of SCOTUS) seem to think that rights must be invoked. Rights aren't something to turn on, even if some can be turned off. If we only have the right to claim the right to remain silent, then we don't have the right to remain silent... We have the right to claim the right to remain silent.

So rather than make b.s. claims contradictions not being contradictory, just say what you mean. You don't care about the right to remain silent.

[–]merkitt 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Has anyone really been far even as decided to waive even go want to demand more like?

[–]tits-mchenry 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

The whole point of an interrogation is to get you to say incriminating stuff you wouldn't come right out and say.

They're not just gonna say "hey, this guy is quiet. instead of continuing to try and get information, we'll just leave him alone." They're going to keep trying until you specifically ask to be left alone.

[–]redroguetech 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

The whole point of an interrogation is to get you to say incriminating stuff you wouldn't come right out and say.

So you're saying the point of interrogating someone is to compel a person in a criminal case to be a witness against himself?

[–]RogRoz 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is only partially correct. The facts of the case are very important in determining the resulting decision

Berghuis v Thompkins (no implied invocation; implied waiver possible)

• Cops give good warnings and D declines to sign the waiver form

• They then questioned D for 3 hours and he pretty much stays silent but gives a few answers and head nods

• Then at the end of the questioning a cop asks him about God and D makes statement admitting he feels guilty for shooting a boy

• So can there be implied waiver of right to silence?

• D argued that he remained silent for so long that it was implied that he had invoked right to silent and they should have had to lay off to scrupulously honor his silence

• Court said you must have unambiguous expression of invocation of right to silence and silence isn’t enough to be invocation (no implied invocation)

• Court held that there COULD be implied waiver of right to silence under 3 circumstances:

1) if you got good warnings

2) as long as person has understanding of the rights and this understanding can be inferred from conduct and here his speaking and giving some answers was conduct that showed his understanding

3) no evidence of coercion

• So because D didn’t expressly invoke right to silence and he impliedly waived right, D’s waiver was valid & confession was allowed

TL:DR If you have been read your Miranda rights (meaning you are taken into custody and being interrogated) and you do not talk, that silence can not be brought in trial for any purpose. If you want to invoke your right to an attorney, it has to be clear and unambiguous. If you are sitting there and being quite the cops can still talk to you, and if you then confess you can't say "But I had invoked my silence".

[–]redroguetech 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The problem, of course, is:

3) no evidence of coercion

The Court held that you must explicitly state an intention to remain silent. Ergo, everyone who states they want the right to remain silent is coerced into speaking.

[–]smithsp86 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Let's take a moment and appreciate the absurdity of a system that requires you to speak in order to stay silent.

[–]el_brio 14ポイント15ポイント  (30子コメント)

You can still just refuse to speak. Silence during questioning isn't an admission of guilt.

[–]WizardTrembyle 44ポイント45ポイント  (3子コメント)

They are then allowed to say, "The defendant refused to answer when asked his whereabouts on the evening in question." By invoking the fifth amendment, that is no longer admissible.

[–]eyetinerant 20ポイント21ポイント  (23子コメント)

But it could be used against you

[–]fizdup 3ポイント4ポイント  (22子コメント)

I thought the line was "anything you say can be used against you..."

[–]Zakblank 7ポイント8ポイント  (21子コメント)

Can and will. Anything you say to a police officer from the moment you make contact with them can and will be used against you. That's why it's best to just request a lawyer upon your arrest and remain silent until you are able to speak to said lawyer.

A police officer can and will lie to you to get you to incriminate yourself as well.

[–]Sevlins 5ポイント6ポイント  (19子コメント)

Actually here's a big one, paraphrased from a lecture by a law professor on why you don't talk to the police. This was specifically about the US mind:

Anything you say can be used against you. But nothing you say can be used to help you. Police speaking in your favour based on what you say to them is regarded as hearsay and is inadmissible in court.

[–]pliers_agario 1ポイント2ポイント  (13子コメント)

Police speaking in your favour based on what you say to them is regarded as hearsay and is inadmissible in court.

In spite of how much time you spend learning about hearsay in law school, your first time in a litigation setting will teach you that almost all hearsay is admissible in court via one exception or another.

[–]slokenny 0ポイント1ポイント  (12子コメント)

I'm curious. Can you give an example?

[–]pliers_agario 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Off the top of my head, a few exceptions that might allow for that information to be admissible in court: Impeaching the police officer. Bringing in the police report. Prior consistent statement.

[–]radusernamehere 0ポイント1ポイント  (10子コメント)

Prior inconsistent statements are always admissible to impeach (but maybe not for substantive purposes), then once impeached you can admit prior consistent to rehab.

In addition to that you've got around 20 hearsay exceptions that you can a lot to fit into. Add some hearsay exclusions (things that aren't considered hearsay in the first place, like party admissions), and you, as one professor told me, "cover 98% of out of court statements."

An interesting wrinkle is that the party admission exclusion does not apply to the state (government) in most jurisdictions. Statements by a police officer aren't admissible. So trying to get in the lies a cop told to get you to admit something isn't going to work.

[–]slokenny 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow. Thanks for the answer. I'm not an attorney, just someone who luckily invoked their rights when I found my deceased wife in the shower.

Thanks again.

[–]349q87ad 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

As the quote goes, In the sea of hearsay, the rule excluding hearsay is a small and lonely island...

[–]totaldorkgasm 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

When being questioned. Not after arrest.

[–]BgDog18 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

"You killed your mother" --No response Can be an adoptive admission by party opponent for failure to respond. But yeah unlikely in the case of a police interrogation

[–]Berberberber 40ポイント41ポイント  (25子コメント)

This is why law is stupid. You're not allowed to know what laws enable the NSA to spy on you and you can't exercise your right to silence except by speaking.

[–]349q87ad 54ポイント55ポイント  (11子コメント)

Well, the 5th amendment right is against making self incriminating statements, not the right to remain silent.

The Miranda Warning is used to explain constitutional rights to people who aren't generally well educated.

[–]Choralone 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Of course you can know what laws allow the NSA to spy on you.

What you dont' get to know are the NSAs internal interpretations of the lawbooks. Those are somethign for a court to challenge.. the interpretations are not law themselves.

For example - my employer has lawyers, and we have our own internal interpretations that define the rulebook we play by. They are the things that we believe we can stand up in court and defend as legal. Those interpretations are kept internal-only, for obvious reasons.

[–]BgDog18 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Miranda rights were completely court created....hence the law being "stupid." So it is tough to "know" your rights when they are established by court precedent and dozens of other cases that discuss subtle issues around the same area without reading a ton of cases or going to law school.

Source: I am a lawyer--the law is stupid (sometimes) but it often has a rational to it when you actually dig into it.

[–]GAMEchief 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

you can't exercise your right to silence except by speaking.

That doesn't mean the law is stupid. It just means the name is stupid.

[–]RogRoz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is only partially correct. The facts of the case are very important in determining the resulting decision

Berghuis v Thompkins (no implied invocation; implied waiver possible)

• Cops give good warnings and D declines to sign the waiver form

• They then questioned D for 3 hours and he pretty much stays silent but gives a few answers and head nods

• Then at the end of the questioning a cop asks him about God and D makes statement admitting he feels guilty for shooting a boy

• So can there be implied waiver of right to silence?

• D argued that he remained silent for so long that it was implied that he had invoked right to silent and they should have had to lay off to scrupulously honor his silence

• Court said you must have unambiguous expression of invocation of right to silence and silence isn’t enough to be invocation (no implied invocation)

• Court held that there COULD be implied waiver of right to silence under 3 circumstances:

1) if you got good warnings

2) as long as person has understanding of the rights and this understanding can be inferred from conduct and here his speaking and giving some answers was conduct that showed his understanding

3) no evidence of coercion

• So because D didn’t expressly invoke right to silence and he impliedly waived right, D’s waiver was valid & confession was allowed

TL:DR If you have been read your Miranda rights (meaning you are taken into custody and being interrogated) and you do not talk, that silence can not be brought in trial for any purpose. If you want to invoke your right to an attorney, it has to be clear and unambiguous. If you are sitting there and being quite the cops can still talk to you, and if you then confess you can't say "But I had invoked my silence".

[–]AngryCod 14ポイント15ポイント  (5子コメント)

"Do you understand these rights?"

You say NO.

Lawyers and courts have been arguing it for decades. Suddenly, you're an expert on your own rights during a period of high stress? When asked if you understand your rights, you say NO.

[–]BradleyCooperDildo 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

Ehhh, I don't think the question "Do you understand these rights" is meant to ascertain whether you fully comprehend the legal significance presented. Rather, it seems far more likely the question is meant to discover if you actually heard and understood, from like a basic grammatical perspective, what they said to you. Otherwise, people would just do what you said and the police would never interrogate anyone.

[–]AngryCod 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

The fact that we disagree on what should be the easiest and most fundamental sentence in the entire Miranda should tell you how obvious it is that you should answer "No".

[–]BradleyCooperDildo 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nah it's more like your approach doesn't really gel with how the rest of Western law works. Like, for example, you can be convicted of a crime even if you didn't actually know what you were doing was illegal, because the courts presume that everyone knows what the law is.

It's called a legal fiction, and without it the legal system wouldn't be able to work. Similarly, it wouldn't be administratively efficient to have to explain all the nuances of the Miranda warnings to each person when they're arrested. Rather, it makes more sense to simply make sure the arrestee can comprehend exactly what they are being told.

Besides the entire purpose of the Miranda warnings is to serve as a prophylactic rule, meaning that they overprotect constitutional rights in order to prevent police abuse. Under a traditional view of legal thought, as mentioned in the first paragraph, an arrestee wouldn't be entitled to a Miranda warning because she would be presumed to know her rights.

So really, what you propose is above and beyond what the Supreme Court requires, which isn't saying much. But requiring everyone to have a full understanding of their rights is, while noble, not feasible.

But feel free to get arrested this week and try this approach out, I'd be anxious to see what happens. I'm sure the ACLU would be happy to test this notion out in court. Best of luck.

[–]secretcurse 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

An internet disagreement doesn't change the fact that the "do you understand these rights" part of the Miranda warning is supposed to determine whether or not the suspect is capable of understanding the wording of the warning. The best reply to the Miranda warning is "Yes, I understand my rights. I request an attorney and I am invoking my fifth amendment right to not answer any other questions." That forces the police to stop questioning you until you have legal representation present.

Saying you don't understand the rights is just going to make your life harder. Tell them you understand, request a lawyer, explicitly state that you are invoking your right to not implicate yourself, and then shut the fuck up until your lawyer tells you that you must answer a question.

[–]AussieCryptoCurrency 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

You also have to choose silence on ALL questions, except your name etc. if you pick and choose the questions to not answer that can be used to show which questions you didn't want to answer

[–]pliers_agario 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's not really accurate - if you invoke your right to remain silent, they cannot continue asking questions. There's no "picking and choosing your answers", because there are not going to be further questions.

They can only begin questioning again if you voluntarily begin speaking after invoking your right, because it is evidence of your waiving your right to remain silent.

Invoking your right to an attorney is even more powerful. That shuts things down immediately. Even if they let you go, they can't even requestion you for something like a week.

[–]super_cool 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

What if you wrote it out?

[–]grossknuckles 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I guess if you were mute that is the only option. So ya, i think you can write it down.

[–]Davethepineapple 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I came here to find out what unambiguously means

[–]DreadPiratesRobert 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

ambiguously means not clearly. Unambiguously means clearly. So say "I invoke my right to remain silent." and/or "I request a lawyer"

[–]abbracobbra 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

No shit Sherlock.

[–]GOU_NoMoreMrNiceGuy 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

well duh.

it's like declaring bankruptcy.

you can't just quietly say it... you have to DECLARE it.

[–]jonnyredshorts 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't understand how a "right" has to be invoked. Aren't we born with these rights under the constitution? Even the phrase "you have the right to remain silent", explicitly says that we can remain silent....can anyone explain this in a way that doesn't regurgitate the fact that we must claim our right?

[–]Lefty_Mcgee 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

On a related note, investigators who want to pry information will say that "if you're innocent, why need a lawyer?" Something along that line. That is the exact moment you should call a lawyer, when cops try and convince you that you don't.

[–]Beingabummer 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Always remember the cops aren't there to prove you're innocent, they're there to get a confession.

[–]Optimus_Mediocre 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is this why they pressed Giles Corey in "The Crucible"

[–]JimmyFromThe90s 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That is very confusing, and I would say it is a logical flaw.

[–]slowmoon 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Of course, if you just sit there and say nothing, it doesn't really matter whether you've invoked it or not (unless you have a lawyer and want to speak with him).

[–]Arknell 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

From what I hear, you should state that you remain silent, and get a lawyer, 100% of the time according to this ex-policeman, due to the risk of human fuckups and mistakes suddenly landing you as chief suspect due to an offhand comment of yours.

[–]bbatton1287 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Case: Salinas v. Texas (spelling)

[–]ai1267 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Doesn't really matter though, since the US uses the Reid technique of interrogation, which is likely to cause you to confess to just about anything, regardless of whether you're guilty or not, as long as it's applied with enough conviction/effort.

Sorry.

[–]Novogrod 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fun fact, they don't have to read you your rights until they ask a question. As long as you are not asked a question, they can keep interrogating you via statements and assertions.