全 37 件のコメント

[–]TheGreasyPoleRed Pill Husband [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Where's the bit about your dad taking away your ballet shoes ?

Or is it that men can do a 15 point list of disadvantages without leaning on the femininisation/masculanisation of certain instruments/activities ?

Oh, woe is us.

Us men have it so hard :,(

[–]thedeti[S] [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Heh.

This was just thrown together off the top of my head, and relates really only to the dating/mating scene and how men relate to women in day to day interaction.

I didn't talk about:

work

workplace injuries

higher risks of injury/death just from going through daily life

less attention to medical care for men's issues/medical problems

less attention to mental health care for men

The list goes on and on and on.

[–]TheGreasyPoleRed Pill Husband [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Here is a good one for you, if you're considering adding any...

"men are 250% more likely to be murdered than females and 290% more like to be assaulted than women"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_crime#In_the_United_States

Imagine how shrill the feminists screams would be were this reversed. The changes to the law they'd call for. The female safety squads. The campus rule changes. The changes to the wording of the law such that "Thinking about killing a woman whilst drunk now counts as murder and makes you a murderer" etc. etc.

They'd go nuts if these stats were reversed, real bouncing off the walls crazy.

Blokes just shrug and say "Yeah, that sounds about right. Won't go wandering down Martin Luther King Blvd any time soon" and leave it at that.

[–]wont_tell_i_refuse [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Accept male disposability. Having value for just being there is what women do. That's their privilege.

Take the fucking redpill.

[–]Quintus_Pillus75%red/25%blue [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Up to this point, literally everyone has lied to, defrauded, and deceived you about the sexual marketplace, about women, about what is attractive to women, and the dating/marriage scene.

That one, along the other ones related to lying, are the key ones.

I hate that I was lied to, that I fell for a scam perpetrated by mothers (and weak fathers), aunts (and weak uncles), teachers, friends, by the newspapers, by the Government.

But Quintus Pillus, how didn't you figure out, as a teenager, that you were being lied to? How socially clueless you had to be to trust the people you're supposed to trust!

EDIT :

[–]taiboworks [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

Up to this point, literally everyone has lied to, defrauded, and deceived you about the sexual marketplace, about women, about what is attractive to women, and the dating/marriage scene.

if this is applicable to anyone, it's socially clueless men who were blind to what women were actually interested in.

You are constantly evaluated, tested, and put up against other men to see how you measure up. Every waking minute, you know that someone somewhere is constantly putting you in the scales and evaluating you against other men. Life is constant, relentless competition. You MUST prove yourself every single minute of every single day. There is never, ever, any respite from this.

you, red pillers, and other hopelessly narcissistic types don't do this with women?

Nobody gives two shits about you. You are virtually invisible to the entire world. If you lose your job, fuck you. If your girl breaks up with you, fuck you. If you get depressed or down, fuck you. If you have financial problems, fuck you.

is this an alternative universe where people don't have friends? parents? family? or are you just saying the hot girls that are out of your league don't give two shits about you and that's all that matters to you?

After she marries you, you have a better than 50% chance she will divorce you or you will have serious marital problems.

how freaked out are you of your 100% chance of dying some day?

You will go through grinding, excruciating sexual dry spells, both in and out of marriage.

how long can you tolerate not have sex, like in the case of end of pregnancy, post pregnancy recovery before your suffering is too much?

If you say even one wrong thing at work, if you offend even ONE delicate flower, you will be accused of sexual harassment, and you will probably lose your job.

how often do you tend to say offensive things to people? do you have any sense of obligation, personal responsibility, to not be offensive/annoying to others?

If you have sex with a girl who regrets it later, you could likely be the subject of a false rape accusation.

what are the real statistical odds of this? has it happened to you or any friends of yours?

[–]Quintus_Pillus75%red/25%blue [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

if this is applicable to anyone, it's socially clueless men who were blind to what women were actually interested in.

If those are rapidly increasing in number, wouldn't you think that something is not being done properly?

If a young boy hears his mother talking (badly) about men, he switches on the TV to watch a sitcom and sees the "le nerdy nice guy man XD" getting the attractive woman by being...whatever he is, if he gets on the internet and reads how toxic masculinity is, how you shouldn't be a creep (with super vague rules on what that is) and all that, wouldn't you say that there's something done wrong at an education level?

I trusted my mother, I trusted my relatives, I saw their message plastered everywhere, local or American media (as Friends was very popular), yet it seems I'm totally socially clueless because I couldn't figure out, when I was still trying to figure out life, that they were actually lying.

[–]thedeti[S] [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

if this is applicable to anyone, it's socially clueless men who were blind to what women were actually interested in.

Clueless because no one took the time to teach them or correct them.

you, red pillers, and other hopelessly narcissistic types don't do this with women?

No. Women have a much, much easier time in the sexual and marriage marketplaces than men do. Much easier. There are more attractive women than there are attractive men. Far more.

is this an alternative universe where people don't have friends? parents? family? or are you just saying the hot girls that are out of your league don't give two shits about you and that's all that matters to you?

Bullshit. Men are expected to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. Women have all sorts of social programs and social networks to help them, which programs and networks are unavailable to men or are stigmatized when men attempt to use them. Mom and Dad help out daughters much more than their sons. Daughters occasionally need help; sons are sent out to do it on their own.

This isn't complaining. It's just stating the way it is.

how freaked out are you of your 100% chance of dying some day?

Irrelevant. The divorce rate is far more relevant to men.

how long can you tolerate not have sex, like in the case of end of pregnancy, post pregnancy recovery before your suffering is too much?

Irrelevant. You're also being disingenuous and you know it. Not talking about wives' post-pregnancy recovery. Talking about men being unable to succeed in the SMP because they don't know how. Talking about wives denying sex.

how often do you tend to say offensive things to people? do you have any sense of obligation, personal responsibility, to not be offensive/annoying to others?

Irrelevant and disingenuous. It doesn't have to be objectively offensive. All that is needed is for one hypersensitive individual to take offense to something said or even to a man's presence.

what are the real statistical odds of this? has it happened to you or any friends of yours?

All that's needed is for a woman to point at a man and say "he raped me" and the machinery of law, government, police and courts is mobilized against him. Yes it has happened to two friends of mine.

[–]taiboworks [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Clueless because no one took the time to teach them or correct them.

so you need your hand held on things most are evolutionarily hardwired to know? and you could have observed with your own eyes and ears in your surroundings? do you really need everything spelled out for you? is this why red pillers need a guide/manual to romantic life? why isn't it your fault that you are clueless (and your responsibility to fix that)? why is it other peoples?

There are more attractive women than there are attractive men. Far more.

is there data/evidence on this?

Bullshit. Men are expected to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. Women have all sorts of social programs and social networks to help them, which programs and networks are unavailable to men or are stigmatized when men attempt to use them.

there are plenty of resources for men growing up, cub scouts, boy scouts, junior achievers (not to mention male sports getting more support, attention, resources). have you heard of them?

It doesn't have to be objectively offensive. All that is needed is for one hypersensitive individual to take offense to something said or even to a man's presence.

again based on your seemingly being a clueless person based on what you have said so far, i think this is more about you not being good at reading others, social situations.

All that's needed is for a woman to point at a man and say "he raped me" and the machinery of law, government, police and courts is mobilized against him. Yes it has happened to two friends of mine.

i'm older and have had many friends and have never experienced this. i don't even know anyone in my large extended family who has experienced this (sample size: many hundreds). i think you maybe hang out with some dodgy people.

[–]lolobviouslyRed Pill [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You are arguing for the sake of it. Shhh.

[–]thedeti[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

so you need your hand held on things most are evolutionarily hardwired to know? and you could have observed with your own eyes and ears in your surroundings? do you really need everything spelled out for you? is this why red pillers need a guide/manual to romantic life? why isn't it your fault that you are clueless (and your responsibility to fix that)? why is it other peoples?

For most men coming up in the 70s, 80s and 90s, the sexual marketplace and its rules were rapidly changing. Those rules were deliberately concealed from most men. Men have to learn things pretty systematically, which explains why there are a lot of men who are competent in most every area of life, EXCEPT in the area of intersexual relationships.

How many times do you need this explained to you, taibo?

there are plenty of resources for men growing up, cub scouts, boy scouts, junior achievers. have you heard of them?

Sure have. None of them teach you about women, how to conduct a relationship with a woman, how to attract one, or how to get laid. None of them help you if you are out of a job or depressed either.

Try to stay on topic, taibo.

again based on your seemingly being a clueless person based on what you have said so far, i think this is more about you not being good at reading others, social situations.

ad hominem. Not worthy of response.

[–]quantumtrolleningBlue Pill [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Oh dear lord...I'd ask, rhetorically, if you actually believe this, but unfortunately it's not even all that unbelievable that you do. Let's just go through the list, shall we?

Up to this point, literally everyone has lied to, defrauded, and deceived you about the sexual marketplace, about women, about what is attractive to women, and the dating/marriage scene.

Nope. It seems like you're talking about romcoms, but looking to romcoms for dating advice is like looking to action movies for advice on resolving workplace disputes. The average guy has seen a very wide variety of viewpoints about dating and what's attractive by the time he's 25, including (gasp) some redpill tenets. Haven't we all heard from Nice Guystm that girls only go after assholes? That's redpill, and it's "common knowledge".

When you point this out, you are told that there are lots of "nice girls" out there for a "nice guy" like you and that "you will make a nice girl really happy someday! (just not me)".

I guess? Seeing as how the first point is melodramatic hyperbole, pointing out the first point to a real person would most likely result in "What the hell are you talking about?"

Also, when you point this out, you are told that only sluts and stupid, insecure, low self esteem women date and have sex with good looking, confident, dominant men with status.

Nope. People like successful, physically attractive people. Our society doesn't really hide that fact. It does tend to be presented in a more gender-neutral way though; it's not like most guys would turn down a chance to sleep with Taylor Swift or whoever the Pop Star du Jour is.

When you point out that the average girls also like those good looking, confident, dominant men with status and that they routinely sleep with those men, you are told "no, no, that never happens. You are deceived. You are not really seeing what you are saying you are seeing."

/r/thathappened

You are constantly evaluated, tested, and put up against other men to see how you measure up. Every waking minute, you know that someone somewhere is constantly putting you in the scales and evaluating you against other men. Life is constant, relentless competition. You MUST prove yourself every single minute of every single day. There is never, ever, any respite from this.

Nope. I suppose at work people do evaluate your performance at the tasks which you are literally being paid to do, but outside of that, this is mostly in your head brah. Most people don't give a shit what you do, and whether you do it well or poorly.

Because of the relentless competition and evaluation, rejection is a fact of your life. You will get rejected 9 times out of 10. At least one of those is a nuclear rejection. You must, MUST learn to steel yourself against rejection.

Sounds like you're talking about hitting on strangers here. Or do you believe that the average guy will be outside, minding his own business, and people will walk up to him and tell him "I reject you!"?

Nobody gives two shits about you. You are virtually invisible to the entire world. If you lose your job, fuck you. If your girl breaks up with you, fuck you. If you get depressed or down, fuck you. If you have financial problems, fuck you.

Uh, yeah, that's true for everybody dude (assuming you're speaking about strangers, anyway). Hate to break it to you, but nobody's the center of the world or of society, and that's ok.

If on the other hand you believe that the average guy at 25 is literally unloved and unwanted by literally everyone in his life....no. That's stupid. Why, was this your personal experience? Or is this something you intuitively know must be true?

You are virtually invisible to nearly all women. Women will not tell you this, but the primary reason they are expressing interest in you is not because they like YOU, or because they want YOU, or because they are interested in YOU. Women's interest in an average 25 year old man is in his Beta Bucks. She hopes to get him to wife her up. Most girls interested in this average 25 year old man are high N sluts, or girls with mental issues, or girls who got burned by a player or three, and are looking to cash in their SMV chips. You will be expected to finance her new "wife" lifestyle.

...what. No. This isn't what a typical man faces, because this isn't what basically anyone faces. I suppose if you're in the top, say, 5% by wealth at age 25, you'll have to deal with a lot of people trying to trade you sex for money, but that'll be true when you're 65 too. That's a function of being super wealthy (which the "average" guy by definition isn't), not a function of being a guy in your 20's.

Do you believe it's possible for women to want to get married and have that desire not be about an expectation that they'll be supported by their husbands? In other words, do you believe that marriages where the woman makes as much as or more than the husband can exist?

After she marries you, you have a better than 50% chance she will divorce you or you will have serious marital problems.

Sure, I guess? Most first marriages don't work out, and it sucks for both partners. Why are you pretending this is a problem only for men? Is this contingent on pretending that the "average" marriage a 25 year old gets into involves supporting his 1950's housewife?

You will go through grinding, excruciating sexual dry spells, both in and out of marriage.

Sometimes people want to have sex and don't get to have it. This is true for almost everyone. Stop whining as if this were a real problem, it's unbecoming.

If you say even one wrong thing at work, if you offend even ONE delicate flower, you will be accused of sexual harassment, and you will probably lose your job.

So don't hit on your coworkers. It's not complicated. If you are uncertain on what constitutes hitting on your coworkers, then try to be safe and don't compliment women on their appearance, talk about what you'd do to "dat ass", or invite female coworkers back to your place to check out your "sketches".

If you have sex with a girl who regrets it later, you could likely be the subject of a false rape accusation.

[Citation needed]

Since I can already feel the google-searched one-or-three anecdotes incoming, please remember that in order to justify the claim that a certain outcome is "likely", you need statistical analysis showing that false rape accusations occur to a majority (or even large minority) of men.

EDIT: Oh wow, I forgot the one about how not having secks is literally torture!

[–]thedeti[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I already responded to the same basic points above in my discussion with taiboworks.

[–]quantumtrolleningBlue Pill [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

No you didn't. But it's cool, I understand that it's easier to talk with redpillers telling you're smart than it is to talk with sane people pointing out that you're lying, badly, about a situation which only exists in your head.

[–]Cbus_anonymous [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I even asked a group of redpillers in a different thread whether they could produce even one example of a false rape claim based on regret, and even between something like thirty guys claiming that, not one was able to do it.

[–]quantumtrolleningBlue Pill [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

But they know it happens! Because, uh, STEM! And biotruths! And fuck you for asking, you're probably ugly and a woman!

[–]CursedLemonPill Popper [スコア非表示]  (18子コメント)

Aside from the fact that half of those are bullshit, here's the problem. If we look at gender conflict as an adversarial, male vs. female thing (which Red Pillers are so fond of), then women's existential issues exist under the thumb of men, whereas men exist under the thumb of...other men. Don't like the constant competitive atmosphere? Don't like the disposability? Barking at women sure ain't gonna solve those problems, you need to talk to your fellow man.

[–]exit_sandmanSocial Justice War Criminal [スコア非表示]  (12子コメント)

whereas men exist under the thumb of...other men

Honestly, I consider "being able to find love/romance/sex/relationship/all of the above" a very existential issue for men, and men surely are not under the thumb of other men when trying to achieve it.

[–]CursedLemonPill Popper [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

Whose fault is it that women are expected to lock their legs up? Your choices are a) Men, or b) Society, depending on whether or not you buy into that male-versus-female thing I mentioned.

[–]thedeti[S] [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Whose fault is it that women are expected to lock their legs up?

Irrelevant to this discussion. This is not about how tough women have it. This is about what a typical man faces, not what a typical woman faces.

[–]CursedLemonPill Popper [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Given that men are trying to get love/romance/sex/relationships/all from women, I think my reply is very topical.

[–]thedeti[S] [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

No, your reply is not topical. I don't care that women are expected to lock their legs up. That addresses "what a typical woman faces" in her daily life with respect to the sexual marketplace.

That's not what this thread is about.

EDIT: Besides, women have it much, much easier in the sexual marketplace than men do. By orders of magnitude easier. There are far more attractive women than there are attractive men. And if a woman wants love, sex, romance and relationships, she can get any or all of those things much easier than a man can.

[–]CursedLemonPill Popper [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

That's not what this thread is about.

Yeah, it definitely was not posted in direct response to a thread about what women actually face which was definitely not a direct response to a thread about what a man thinks a woman faces. Definitely.

[–]thedeti[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If you would like to talk about how tough women have it, there are two active and recent threads where that precise topic is currently under discussion.

[–]exit_sandmanSocial Justice War Criminal [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Aaaaaand again the good old bluepiller fallacy "if there was no slut-shaming, all men would benefit." I find it odd that some still believe that.

[–]CursedLemonPill Popper [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Going a tad off-topic, aren't we.

[–]modulokget stronk. (th-thanks) [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I consider "being able to find love/romance/sex/relationship/all of the above" a very existential issue for men

I agree with this.

What I don't understand is that there are so many women out there. I literally know fat slobs that play video games all day that can get girlfriends.

[–]thedeti[S] [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I literally know fat slobs that play video games all day that can get girlfriends.

I'm not seeing it. What I see is precisely the reverse -- obese, slovenly, and unattractive women and sluts who can easily, easily get boyfriends, baby daddies, LTRs, husbands, casual sex, flings, one night stands -- whatever they want. This SMP is their oyster -- a woman can get pretty much whatever she wants, when and how and from whom she wants it.

[–]modulokget stronk. (th-thanks) [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I just have a different experience. You're not incorrect, but it's not to the extreme that you're stating either.

Social awkward women, in my experience, definitely have to search lower on the pole.

[–]thedeti[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yes, socially awkward and unattractive women have to search lower. They can still easily find men who find them attractive.

Most women are attractive to most men. Most men are NOT attractive to most women. This is the way sexual attraction works. It's just easier for a woman to attract a man than it is for a man to attract a woman. Just is so. It's designed this way by nature.

[–]nicethingyoucanthaveRed Pill Male [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

If we look at gender conflict as an adversarial, male vs. female thing

You call it a "conflict" then say it's wrong to see it as adversarial.

you need to talk to your fellow man.

*rolls eyes* This is blue pill treacle. It's too vague to help anyone. To whom and about what should an average man talk about in order to increase the likelihood that he will live a happy life? No wait, let me guess - if he marches with the feminists and rails against the patriarchy, that'll do it, right?

Instead of prostrating myself before an ideology that hates my guts, I have a better idea - I can give men advice that actually will increase the likelihood that they'll be happy:

  • seek the truth of what women find attractive. Ignore what they say. Watch what they do.

  • develop and/or accentuate those traits and behaviors in yourself.

  • have sex with women when possible. Have fun with them. Enjoy their company. Appreciate their physical beauty. Accept them as they are. Embrace their differences and know that it's natural and normal to be attracted to them because of those differences - that this isn't a "cultural construct."

  • retain power and control over your own life. Don't make the mistake of getting into a situation that you can't easily get out of.

That advice will help a lot more men than anything that any blue piller has ever said - and that advice is just scratching the surface. But what it's not is vague platitudes about "talking it out"

[–]CursedLemonPill Popper [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

You're missing the point. Red Pill talks about improving the individual man by broadstroking the entire female gender with resentment as the primary motivating factor. If Red Pill is so into fixing things, then maybe they should look at male and female behaviors as things that are borne of a long history of social rigidity - one which women did not have the primary say in.

Point being, you can't blame women for what your gender turned them into. Maybe you could start by trying to reverse some of the damage.

[–]thedeti[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If Red Pill is so into fixing things, then maybe they should look at male and female behaviors as things that are borne of a long history of social rigidity - one which women did not have the primary say in.

No. The solution is in looking at male and female behaviors as products of nature; and then in actually systematically teaching and instructing men in those natures.

I know folks like you don't like this, but part of that female nature is that women are not naturally monogamous. Women can and will cheat for the right guy, right place, right circumstances, and if there is low risk of detection. Women want the best man they can get. Women are willing to lie, cheat, deceive and defraud if they deem such to their advantage.

Men are sexual creatures. They want sex, and are willing to do what it takes to get it. Men are more violent, more competitive, more aggressive. There are more intelligent men; but there are more stupid and talentless men too.

Teach men these things about nature; these things that cannot be changed. Don't waste time teaching them inanities about "social rigidity" and "women's being excluded" and "social 'justice'".

[–]TheGreasyPoleRed Pill Husband [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Our gender didn't do shit.

Almost all of it is genetically hardwired. No-one set "tall" as a attractive quality in a man, genes did. No-one set "muscly". No-one set "symmetrical" and so on and so forth.

Those bits that aren't... That work via bouncing off the environment... They've been bouncing off an environment structured by females since the early 80's.

You don't quite seem to understand yet that we DO NOT BELEIVE we are living in a Patriarchy and the last time that could honestly be said with a straight face was during the 50's. Since then women have clawed back control, and by the 80's that transfer was largely complete.

In 1950 you couldn't get SHIT done unless the men were for it (more or less) now you can;t get SHIT done unless the women are for it (more or less).

So, unless you are fishing in the "over 45" pool you are fishing in a pool where the environmental factors were set by women.

I'd say 45-60 it'd be a mixed bag. These girls grew up in the half-and-half state.

The 60+'s are the last generation to have had their womens minds structured in a male arranged culture.

[–]nicethingyoucanthaveRed Pill Male [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

resentment as the primary motivating factor

Why should I accept your narrative, as an outsider to TRP?

Rush Limbaugh says that feminism was created to give unattractive women easier access to society. Do you accept Rush Limbaugh's narrative regarding the "primary motivating factor" of feminism? No, I imagine you don't.

Well, I don't accept your narrative either.

The actual motivation toward TRP is the desire to know the truth about human sexuality in order to be better equipped in navigating sexual relationships.

If Red Pill is so into fixing things

TRP is not about fixing things. The truth lets you fix yourself. Knowing the truth allows me to give better advice than you do. But TRP isn't an activist movement like MRA. We aren't trying to change the world, much less women.

We accept them as they are.

things that are borne of a long history of social rigidity - one which women did not have the primary say in.

hogwash! Women have always had enormous (I might even say primary) social power. You're pitching feminist revisionist history here.

[–]ERockEfreedom [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You are constantly evaluated, tested, and put up against other men to see how you measure up. Every waking minute, you know that someone somewhere is constantly putting you in the scales and evaluating you against other men.

No, the only one comparing you to other guys all the time is YOU.