16
17

UKIP members will wear these t-shirts at Pride in London despite ban (pinknews.co.uk)

ProfessorZ00MI do not have the right not to do so が 投稿

全 200 件のコメント
並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]terrymcginnisbeyondLabour, 21ポイント22ポイント  (11子コメント)

I really hope the people at Pride show more humility and decency than they have in response to LGBT members of UKIP than they have already, because at the moment the organisers have acted pretty poorly.

[–]El_Nombre_OccupadoPointless Opinion ... like yours [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

because at the moment the organisers have acted pretty poorly.

Uninvited people get turned away from organised events all the time.

[–]terrymcginnisbeyondLabour, [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

They were invited, then the organisers changed their minds because some other attendees felt 'unsafe'.

[–]El_Nombre_OccupadoPointless Opinion ... like yours [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

So they were uninvited? It happens.

[–]terrymcginnisbeyondLabour, [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

And that's a very shitty thing to do. I might not agree with UKIP but they should have a place within pride, along with the Tories who have marched for years, and Labour and the Lib-dems. This signifies a lot more than 'shit happens'. It shows a disturbing miasma of opinion in the LGBT community, that you have to have the 'approved politics' (namely socialist politics) in order to be at Pride, or welcomed into the community. And this is from someone who is a Labour member and a Bisexual man who has been in openly gay relationships, and taken the shit for it too, including physical violence. People who complained saying they 'felt unsafe' were using a highly suspect and manipulative strategy to oust a group they personally disagree with, and remember this wasn't going to Carswell and Farage turning up, it was going to the LGBT wing of UKIP attending London Pride.

[–]El_Nombre_OccupadoPointless Opinion ... like yours [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

It's totally up to them. I don't support them, this wouldn't stop me from doing so, but I think the organizers have every right to determine who they do and don't want there. My personally beliefs are irrelevant. I couldn't just rock up and march without getting the correct clearance to do so. They were given it, then it was taken away. Tough shit.

[–]terrymcginnisbeyondLabour, [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

They were given it, then it was taken away. Tough shit.

So now when they want to attend and simply where their UKIP t-shirts basically as LGBT people, that should be banned too? They can't even attend as private citizens with an opinion on politics that's unpopular at Pride? So who can attend pride? Do we have to attend with our little red books? Should we be forced to go through some kind of inquisition to make sure we're the right kind of gay people? Who can attend Pride?

You might want to have a look at what other organisations are being allowed to attend. http://prideinlondon.org/paradelineup/, some of them are pretty odd.

UKIP handed the LGBT community an olive branch in a sense, and it was thrown back in their face, there's a very realistic probability that we'll both be leaving the EU at some stage in the future, and that UKIP may become an opposition party in a few years, we need to making friends with UKIP as a political force, not pissing on their beliefs. This goes way beyond 'tough shit', it's a really unpleasant precedent in that pride has set.

I'll also remind you this isn't some kind of 'private company' this event costs tax payer money, you go to any pride march and they're are police every where, publicly financed of course, and there's now a law in this country where a business isn't allowed to turn away LGBT people, but of course Pride can turn away people who have a differing political opinion from Peter Tatchell.

[–]El_Nombre_OccupadoPointless Opinion ... like yours [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

They can't even attend as private citizens with an opinion on politics that's unpopular at Pride?

Why do you need to wear a T-shirt? I don't walk around with an I heart David Cameron/Nick Clegg/Ed Milliband T-shirt on.

You might want to have a look at what other organisations are being allowed to attend. http://prideinlondon.org/paradelineup/, some of them are pretty odd.

Like I say they can invite whoever they want. It's totally up to them.

[–]terrymcginnisbeyondLabour, [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

It's totally up to them.

Well no, it was after complaints, as I said they were invited, I think that should have been honoured. And the reasons given by the complainants were completely dishonest and exaggerated. The change.org page has this to say on UKIP, They are in the news constantly with stories of not only homophobia and transphobia, but islamophobia, xenophobia, racism, that's really over-exaggerated, they have disagreements about LGBT rights, and I disagree with some of this, yes, but I don't think the UKIP members attending held this view, and islamophobic, no they don't agree with parts of Islam, that's not racist, Islam like Christianity is not above criticism. Wanting to reform immigration policy doesn't actually make someone 'xenophobic' and actually there stance on immigration barely deviates from the Tory Party, an organisation that's allowed to attend. Racism, yeah there's probably a few racists in UKIP, but I bet there's a few in all the parties, and again, reforming the immigration policy and wanting to leave the EU doesn't make someone a racist, and I've seen Nigel Farage speak in the EU parliament, he doesn't sound like a racist to me. I wonder if there was the same wide spread condemnation from the Change.org signatories when protesters turned up to harass Nigel Farage when he was having Sunday lunch with his wife and children, those people weren't invited to do that, but they went ahead any way.

Why do you need to wear a T-shirt?

On the other hand give me a reason why they shouldn't, just because you wouldn't that's not a sufficient reason why UKIP LGBT members shouldn't. I assure you there will be people at Pride wearing 'anti-austerity' t-shirts, Labour will likely be carrying a banner with their affiliation on it, the furries will likely be in costume, and yes the furries will be at London Pride. For years all of us in the community talked about equality, freedom, freedom of expression, and when the LGBT community have all those things guaranteed in law, they've turned round and denied another group their rights.

And I'm not the only one who feels this way:http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/i-might-be-gay-and-mixedrace-but-id-still-be-horrified-if-ukip-was-banned-from-lgbt-pride-10300506.html

These are the people who made the Pride complainants feel 'unsafe':http://attitude.co.uk/ukip-react-to-london-pride-block-sad-day-for-diversity-and-freedom/ all 2000+ that signed a change.org protest. A pretty paltry amount considering London Pride attraced 30'000 people in 2014.

[–]El_Nombre_OccupadoPointless Opinion ... like yours [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

And the reasons given by the complainants were completely dishonest and exaggerated. The change.org page has this to say on UKIP, They are in the news constantly with stories of not only homophobia and transphobia, but islamophobia, xenophobia, racism

Over exaggerated? really? I had this discussion earlier and a simple google returned two instances of something I would call homophobia. One guy refered to gay couples as "termites" and another seemed to blame a spate of floodings on the fact that gay marriage was now allowed. That was hardly extensive research to discover two instances alone.

But I digress, it's irrelevant anyway. The organizers of the event are free to invite, uninvite or not invite at all anybody they so please. It is their event whether they are right or wrong.

I ask you this, if you think the organizers of this event are in the wrong and it reflects badly on them, what can you do about it? They are not asking for votes, they are not asking for equality ... they just want to hold their event. You don't have to support them because of this or you can, it's up to you. It's their free choice if they want to come across that way.

People get banned from events because of choice clothing all the time. You can't even enter nightclubs with a slogan on your T-shirt half the time. It happens every Saturday night. Why is this any different? Again it's up to the organizers.

[–]JamJarre [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I think the organizers have every right to determine who they do and don't want there.

They do. But then to position Pride as a celebration of all things QUILTBAG and an open, safe space for all to express themselves makes them quite hypocritical, no?

[–]El_Nombre_OccupadoPointless Opinion ... like yours [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah, but that's up to them. If they want to come across or think that is how it will be interpreted (which I doubt will be the case in their community) that is up to them.

[–]Capsulets 15ポイント16ポイント  (9子コメント)

From the Pride website:

Pride in London provides a platform for every part of London’s LGBT+ community

Clearly not every part.

[–]johnnyhammerRemember the Commonwealth. Vote UKIP in 2020. [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Perhaps that + was meant to be *

*except those filthy queers from Ukip.

[–]VarishenDasCrimethInc [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

I note the "LGBT in UKIP" facebook group has twenty-six member,very low considering their presence and support is mostly on that site.

We have seen,however disgust from UKIP supporters that the party has LGBT members,so there's also that.

[–]johnnyhammerRemember the Commonwealth. Vote UKIP in 2020. [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Please provide evidence supporting your last statement.

[–]VarishenDasCrimethInc [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I'll provide a source,at least:Derrieck Jensens book "The culture of make belive" cites as thus: Wade,102 Wade, 62 Wade,110 Kennedy, 150 Kennedy, 154

As for place ande time these events occured: Georgia,1871,Texas,1873,Alabama and Arkansas,1874.

The phamplet "A call to arms" started "If you find the Negro voting,tell him to leave the polls,and if he refuses,kill him,shoot him down in his tracks.We will win tomorrow if we have to do it with guns".

Edit,Evidence and history: http://www.umich.edu/~lawrace/disenfranchise1.htm

[–]johnnyhammerRemember the Commonwealth. Vote UKIP in 2020. [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

What?

[–]Iam_Ironman_AMA [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It looks like the anti-kipper shill bot is in need of repairs.

[–]Capsulets [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I note the "LGBT in UKIP" facebook group has twenty-six member,very low considering their presence and support is mostly on that site.

Well its a closed group. Their page has 1,874 likes.

We have seen,however disgust from UKIP supporters that the party has LGBT members,

Like this guy?

[–]VarishenDasCrimethInc [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm actually going to thank you for that, I don't like labour either, and that doesn't surprise me....

[–]LittleDevil1muh democracy 13ポイント14ポイント  (17子コメント)

If only I was fabulous enough to join them, I really hope they are treated equally and fairly, though I assume that won't be the case.

[–]ProfessorZ00MI do not have the right not to do so[S] 8ポイント9ポイント  (16子コメント)

If the comments section is anything to judge by, they're going to have a rough time...

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/06/22/ukip-members-will-wear-these-t-shirts-at-pride-in-london-despite-ban/comments/#disqus_thread

[–]johnnyhammerRemember the Commonwealth. Vote UKIP in 2020. 11ポイント12ポイント  (27子コメント)

It must be a tough job being a gay member of Ukip. Hats off to them.

The people of Pride have really given their image of tolerance and acceptance a black eye in trying to sacrifice their own to make a political point.

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

It must be a tough job being a gay member of Ukip.

Because they're gay, or because they're a member of UKIP?

[–]El_Nombre_OccupadoPointless Opinion ... like yours [スコア非表示]  (22子コメント)

It must be a tough job being a gay member of Ukip

I couldn't agree with you more. Imagine if some of your colleagues refereed to you as "termites" or assumed you all had aids?

[–]johnnyhammerRemember the Commonwealth. Vote UKIP in 2020. [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

Who assumed that all gay people have aids?

And please link to the termites quote.

[–]El_Nombre_OccupadoPointless Opinion ... like yours [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

Oh it was Mr Farage himself. Did you not watch the debates? To his credit it wasn't all Gay people, just the ones that came here from another country.

John Sullivan

How about the guy who thinks all the gay marriages are making it rain?

[–]johnnyhammerRemember the Commonwealth. Vote UKIP in 2020. [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

Farage made no mention of HIV positive people coming into the country all being gay. You should be asking yourself some serious questions, as you seem to be projecting.

[–]El_Nombre_OccupadoPointless Opinion ... like yours [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

Ok I'll let him off, the other two then?

[–]johnnyhammerRemember the Commonwealth. Vote UKIP in 2020. [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

So you fucked up royally with that one.

Just think for a moment: if you were so wrong about that, what else might you have missed through being so staunchly anti Ukip?

For the record, Silvester was suspended from the party and we haven't heard anything from Sullivan since. Their comments were completely at odds with Ukip policy.

[–]El_Nombre_OccupadoPointless Opinion ... like yours [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

More can't be arsed to point out that you can read between the lines of what he was saying but yeah ok.

Ah that's ok then, totally excuses everything they said. It's a wonder they have any politicians left the amount that get suspended.

[–]johnnyhammerRemember the Commonwealth. Vote UKIP in 2020. [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Ah, the "he didn't say it, but I know what he meant" argument.

Clutching, forever clutching at those straws.

[–]bottomlines [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Wtf. Farage didn't say that at all.

He said that immigrants should be checked for their HIV status. It's an infectious disease. Many people don't know that they have it. And it costs a lot to treat. So that's three good reasons why we should test people. And considering that we already do check for many infectious diseases, such as TB, when people come here from high risk places, adding HIV to the list isn't so outrageous.

However, some of these LGBT groups, and the left in general, used it as another opportunity to call him homophobic.

[–]El_Nombre_OccupadoPointless Opinion ... like yours [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Didn't say what? He didn't pluck a figure out of the air completely at random, like 60%, and then say that was the figure of HIV cases caused by immigrants? Let's not pretend there wasn't a veiled attack on gay immigrants there and be grown ups please? I mean, how else would such a large number contract the disease?

And considering that we already do check for many infectious diseases, such as TB, when people come here from high risk places, adding HIV to the list isn't so outrageous.

It's only infectious if you don't take the correct precautions.

[–]Ruggle [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

How is it any different to a white person supporting Labour while Diane Abbott is still around?

[–]El_Nombre_OccupadoPointless Opinion ... like yours [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

I don't know I don't work with Diane Abbott?

[–]Ruggle [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

Ok let me be more general for you then. There will be someone in your political party of choice that does not like people like you. Must be a tough job being a member of any party by that measure.

[–]El_Nombre_OccupadoPointless Opinion ... like yours [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

Diane Abbott doesn't like white people? News to me. I'm not saying she doesn't I'm just saying I'm not aware of it.

[–]Ruggle [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

Here you go then

[–]El_Nombre_OccupadoPointless Opinion ... like yours [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

I couldn't disagree with her more. What a horrible view point to take.

[–]Ruggle [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

And as I said, must be tough being a white member of Labour under the proposed logic.

[–]El_Nombre_OccupadoPointless Opinion ... like yours [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Yeah it must. So you agree that it must be tough being a member of UKIP if you are gay as well?

[–]Alagorn [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

UKIP is a crazy party, and this probably applies to Labour and Conservatives too, but we know UKIP has black members who hate homosexuals and homosexual members who hate black people. But they're just crazies. No-one's interested in when the Tories or Labour do the same thing.

[–]johnnyhammerRemember the Commonwealth. Vote UKIP in 2020. [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

"I don't agree with you, so you must be crazy!"

How easy.

[–]Jotun90wants to live in a hut in the woods 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

Good. Banning people from a inclusivity event because they think wrong is fucking ludicrous.

[–]whencanistopChange is good 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

People from UKIP were not banned from attending (as is obvious from the article), they just weren't allowed a banner in the banner parade.

[–]Capsulets [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

While other political parties were allowed a banner.

[–]will_holmesCentre-Right [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I hope they bring one anyway.

[–]Jotun90wants to live in a hut in the woods [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

People from UKIP weren't banned, sure, they were just denied political expression because they think wrong. Slight semantic mistake in my OP.

[–]hoffi_coffi [スコア非表示]  (34子コメント)

One good thing has come out of all of this - now suddenly all UKIP supporters have become very pro-gay and interested in having a large UKIP presence there.

Of course they should be allowed a banner if they want, how petty. Even if there are "safety" concerns, they need to get over it - I am sure there have been safety concerns since day one.

[–]ProfessorZ00MI do not have the right not to do so[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

We're here! We drink beer! Get used to it!

[–]Alagorn [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Even if there are "safety" concerns, they need to get over it

I can imagine some banners being "I am GAY and vote UKIP - Get over it"

[–]whencanistopChange is good [スコア非表示]  (20子コメント)

One good thing has come out of all of this - now suddenly all UKIP supporters have become very pro-gay and interested in having a large UKIP presence there.

Hopefully that will subsequently be reflected in their policies.

[–]hoffi_coffi [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well that really is why I would always support organisations or parties being allowed to march or be part of gay pride, even if it seems at odds with the organisation itself. There are Muslims taking part, Catholics - all sorts of groups. It can only help the cause if you can get people on board from the inside who can hope to change it from within.

[–]johnnyhammerRemember the Commonwealth. Vote UKIP in 2020. [スコア非表示]  (18子コメント)

What policies are anti gay?

[–]whencanistopChange is good [スコア非表示]  (17子コメント)

They have no policies on LBGT* at all (that is assuming they haven't disowned the current manifesto yet).

"Hey guys look at all UKIP are doing for the Gay community"

"What are you doing?"

"Err, nothing. Hoping the free market solves it"

[–]johnnyhammerRemember the Commonwealth. Vote UKIP in 2020. [スコア非表示]  (16子コメント)

They treat them like everyone else. That is true equality.

[–]Lolworth💂🇬🇧 London Liberal [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

It's the 'end' to equality, if not the means.

[–]johnnyhammerRemember the Commonwealth. Vote UKIP in 2020. [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

Er, no. The way to equality is to see and treat people equally. Women, men, black, white, gay, straight: all are viewed equally under Ukip, the only party to do so.

[–]Lolworth💂🇬🇧 London Liberal [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Which leaves people to judge on their inherent and unconscious biases. Which, if we're honest, UKIP has in spades.

[–]johnnyhammerRemember the Commonwealth. Vote UKIP in 2020. [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

People should be free to like or dislike what they want.

It seems you are advocating something akin to the thought police.

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I don't know how we got to a point in our society where people can think this way. There seems to be developing some kind of post-parity movement, that believes that we're all equal enough and what we should now be dealing with is allowing "natural" order and hierarchy to return to society. Its some kind of backlash.

[–]Lolworth💂🇬🇧 London Liberal [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

When they see overtly PC politics and SJW activism around as much as it is now it's a natural position to take, it's just almost nearly as wrong.

[–]whencanistopChange is good [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

In that case, we'll cancel the Pride march because everything is fine as it is.

[–]johnnyhammerRemember the Commonwealth. Vote UKIP in 2020. [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

I believe they are marching to express pride. What rights do gay people not enjoy in Britain?

[–]whencanistopChange is good [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

With so much of the legal framework for equality now in place, our attention is focused on the attitudinal and social change that is needed to turn those legal rights into lived equality.

http://prideinlondon.org/about/

It's not about being 'proud' of being gay. I'm proud of being straight, but I'm not discriminated against on a regular basis because of it, so I don't need to march through town centres to remind people that discrimination still exists.

[–]johnnyhammerRemember the Commonwealth. Vote UKIP in 2020. [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

What discrimination?

Any statistics to back up this claim?

[–]whencanistopChange is good [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Despite employment protections having been in place for ten years and considerable efforts from leading employers to tackle homophobia, bullying at work remains a significant problem for gay people. One in five (19 per cent) lesbian, gay and bisexual employees have experienced verbal bullying from colleagues, customers or service users because of their sexual orientation in the last five years. One in six (15 per cent) have experienced verbal homophobic bullying from their colleagues in the last five years and one in twelve (eight per cent) have experienced verbal homophobic bullying from customers, clients and service users in the same period.

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/documents/gay_in_britain.pdf

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

One good thing has come out of all of this - now suddenly all UKIP supporters have become very pro-gay and interested in having a large UKIP presence there.

Its a bit like when they all became animal rights activists when Halal slaughter was in the headlines.

[–]hey-upSocial Democrat [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

It's almost as thought they're in favour of, let me see... anything popular.

[–]johnnyhammerRemember the Commonwealth. Vote UKIP in 2020. [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's almost as if people have opinions on events that are currently in the news. Funny that...

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm sure theres a name for that kind of politics...

[–]kidimaro [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

So you just don't like the double standards?

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

You what mate?

[–]kidimaro [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Precisely guv.

I thought you had a brain.

Its a bit like when they all became animal rights activists when Halal slaughter was in the headlines.

So its just hypocrisy you are after.

Don't you want to protect same sex lovers? you can trust a Ugandan person who is HIV positive to go around using a condom when having anal sex with a British passport wielding homosexual?

I wish I had your faith in humanity.

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Nice.

[–]kidimaro [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Is is indeed, at least I have some balls.

I mean vagina.

I mean at least I have some genitalia.

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Top. Bantz.

[–]kidimaro [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

https://youtu.be/5arqlkmibmY?t=63

Remember, the devil is a liar.

Bare bantz bloodclart, famo about to go twoz on a zoot get me fam.

Don't worry, the chi chi man aren't devil worshippers.

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist 2ポイント3ポイント  (39子コメント)

Do other political parties have a presence at Pride?

[–]ProfessorZ00MI do not have the right not to do so[S] 11ポイント12ポイント  (38子コメント)

Yes

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist 1ポイント2ポイント  (37子コメント)

Official? Or unofficial?

[–]chrisawhitmoreGladstonian Liberal 13ポイント14ポイント  (35子コメント)

Official. Here's the list of groups marching in 2014, Labour are 192, Lib Dems 193, Tories 194 and Greens 202.

Representatives of those notoriously gay friendly organisations, Islam and Catholicism, are 169 and 171 respectively, in case anyone says the ban is because UKIP as a whole is homophobic.

http://prideinlondon.org/parade-venues/parade-entries-and-participants/

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist 1ポイント2ポイント  (34子コメント)

They seem to have just banned them because they're unpopular.

[–]Arffman 11ポイント12ポイント  (5子コメント)

There does seem to be an unhealthy trend of equating popularity with what is 'right' these days. No idea where this has come from. Upvote and share if you agree.

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

I meant unpopular as in they probably thought that they'd be a downer on the parade.

To be fair to the organisers, ukip do like to court controversy. And they seem to be crusading against what they're calling "identity politics", to the point that they'd reverse legislation that protects minority groups.

Ukip pretty much stands against everything Pride stands for. It's pretty cynical of them to want to join in.

[–]johnnyhammerRemember the Commonwealth. Vote UKIP in 2020. [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Ukip pretty much stands against everything Pride stands for.

Citation needed.

[–]labiaprong [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

How do they stand against everything Pride stands for?

[–]Arffman [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I was mostly making a dumb joke. :[

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Aww man, I missed it! Sorry.

[–]Omnislip 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

They are quite open about this - it is why it is for safety concerns.

[–]ProfessorZ00MI do not have the right not to do so[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (26子コメント)

Do you agree with banning things for being unpopular?

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist [スコア非表示]  (25子コメント)

Nope. Also, I'm not sure why Pride invited them and then backpedaled.

[–]Digital_Pigeon [スコア非表示]  (20子コメント)

I think (believe it or not) that it probably is a safety issue, or rather a disorder issue - The way I see it the organisers were happy for UKIP to attend, but when they saw all the uproar about it they were probably scared that there would end up being riots or something, and so would need more security which would cost more and ruin the atmosphere of the event. Reasonable from a pragmatic perspective, but hypocritical from an ethical one.

[–]LtSlowOn the far centre [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I doubt LGBT needed "Gay and trans UKIP voters beaten to death with giant dildos and buttplugs in London streets" plastered to them

Better deny them than have UKIP sue because someone got killed or seriously hurt in the name of tolerance

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I doubt LGBT needed "Gay and trans UKIP voters beaten to death with giant dildos and buttplugs in London streets" plastered to them

Careful, you're showing your prejudice...

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist [スコア非表示]  (15子コメント)

I don't think they really owe ukip anything, ethically. If a fundamental Islam organisation tried to muscle their way in, there would be a similar reaction.

[–]Arathian [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

If a fundamentalist Islamic group wanted to support a gay pride parade it wouldn't be a fundamentalist Islamic group.

[–]Digital_Pigeon [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Of course they don’t owe anyone anything, but at the end of the day we’re talking about gay people who want to show pride in their sexuality. Anyone who wants to stop them doing that is being intolerant.

[–]Aspley_Heath [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Also, I'm not sure why Pride invited them and then backpedaled.

It was a trap. They expected UKIP to decline and so they could claim how bigoted and homophobic UKIP are. The press would also like that story. It was a way of damaging the UKIP brand.

[–]ProfessorZ00MI do not have the right not to do so[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Both

[–]lordweiner57/r/OutCampaign - News & Coordination for the Brexit Campaign [スコア非表示]  (13子コメント)

Lets remember that UKIP have been the only party that stood up for the protection of gay people from HIV. Every other party supports allowing people with HIV to come into this country and spread the disease to our citizens. Whilst issues like gay marriage are important for acceptance, HIV is the only issue that actually affects peoples lives.

[–]Subliminal42 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Wow. Is this a real thought that someone has had?!

[–]DukePPUk [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Why limit it to just people coming to the country? Wouldn't it be even better if we rounded up all those gay people in the UK with HIV as well (because only gay people are affected by HIV), banning them from having sex (because there aren't any other ways of transmitting it)?

I'm sure they'd all be fine with that, because there's nothing else affecting their lives...

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

Wow, amazing. This one is going in the scrap book.

[–]lordweiner57/r/OutCampaign - News & Coordination for the Brexit Campaign [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

I hope you're starting to see a common theme among my comments and our discussions. I care for peoples lives and health and don't give a shit about their feelings.

We've eradicated rabies from our island, there is no reason we can't eradicate Aids and HIV and then continue that process throughout the world. UKIP are the only party who want to go in that direction. You'll notice that a big part of the fight against Ebola was keeping it contained that is precisely the logic we should be using against HIV. Even just mandatory testing of people immigrating from countries with high incidences of HIV would make a huge difference.

Really, it's ridiculous that I'm even explaining myself. The UKIP position is the only one that actually helps people and fights HIV.

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

I care for peoples lives and health and don't give a shit about their feelings.

Brilliant.

[–]labiaprong [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

Do you not want to address anything else he said?

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

What would be the point?

[–]fotbuwl [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

Actual debate.

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Not sure a debate with someone who says things like...

Lets remember that UKIP have been the only party that stood up for the protection of gay people from HIV.

...would be very productive.

[–]bottomlines [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

He does have a point actually. Many people with HIV don't know that they have it. And there are certain populations which have a much higher risk of carrying HIV. Targeting testing would go a very long way to reducing the disease rates in the UK.

[–]NotSoBlue_Hobbesian Centrist [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Sure, that already happens. But trying to make out that UKIP's desire to HIV test immigrants is specifically an LGBT friendly policy is pretty nuts.

[–]Fummy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

the horror...

[–]OrcnickThe Centre -0.12, -0.87 -4ポイント-3ポイント  (8子コメント)

Well I am glad that they should should be allowed to go.

I mean I don't really know why you would be LGBT in UKIP not really a party with a great history of fighting for there rights. But that is debate people should be having rather then whether they should be allowed to go or not.

Edit: Maybe I was not clear. I support UKIP members right to go and have a banner, if LGBT are all inclusive they should let theses people walk together.

What I am saying is that though they should be allowed to go, I think its right to Question and ask, why are people who are supporting LGBT in UKIP? When in my view UKIP has done nothing to help there rights. This we can debate. But banning people when you say your all inclusive is wrong.

[–]Capsulets [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I mean I don't really know why you would be LGBT in UKIP

Because you agree with most of UKIPs policies, and want to see the party become more accepting of LGBT issues.

[–]OrcnickThe Centre -0.12, -0.87 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

And thats fine. You can still question it though. I question why people are catholic and Gay, but they are.

[–]Digital_Pigeon [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I don't really know why you would be LGBT in UKIP not really a party with a great history of fighting for there rights.

There’s no reason why a gay person couldn’t reasonably support UKIP – If you’re a gay person who wants to leave the EU, scrap STEM tuition fees, stop greenfield building and scrap green energy levies then UKIP is the party for you.

[–]OrcnickThe Centre -0.12, -0.87 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

But you have to balance that with there record on gay rights how for a long time they supported views contray to those rights.

If your a gay person and you think you can over look that then thats fine. I just saying that is the debate to have.

[–]rtrs_bastiat [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If being gay is your single most defining attribute, then sure maybe you wouldn't join UKIP. For most people, sexuality is incidental however.

[–]chrisawhitmoreGladstonian Liberal 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

The tories can march with a banner and without a ban.

[–]OrcnickThe Centre -0.12, -0.87 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes and that is fine. I am saying that should be allowed and so should UKIP and so should the Catholic LGBT. But the question should be if people are with these groups, why are they with them? We can debate that we can question that. But we can't ban people because we don't like there views.

[–]chrisawhitmoreGladstonian Liberal 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Perhaps there are some LGBT people who care about more issues than just LGBT ones. As LGBT people approach equality, it's inevitable that they will cease to act politically based on being LGBT and start to vote based on the same things everyone else does. I imagine there are plenty of LGBT people who feel that, from a legislative standpoint, there's not a huge amount extra that needs doing for LGBT people, and so they'll vote based on boring regular stuff like immigration and the EU and whether we should bring back grammar schools and so on.

[–]VarishenDasCrimethInc [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

That shirt shows UKIPs' victim mentality very well,no-one is stopping people from voting UKIP.

I mean when black people in America got the vote,white people with guns turned up with guns and threatend to shoot them if they cast their vote,and afew where killed for voting. Do UKIP voters have that issue?

[–]BashFish [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/12932095.UKIP_supporter__kicked_by_group_of_men__over_election_sign_outside_his_house/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/ukip-candidate-bobby-anwar-stabbed-in-the-face-in-attack-9410465.html

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/media/images/81470000/jpg/_81470325_81469915.jpg

'victim mentality'. ukip voters very much face the issue of violent intimidation

[–]VarishenDasCrimethInc [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Tell me again how any of this was a attempt to stop people at the polls, on the day, voting UKIP?

What I was referring to was a systematic attempt by members of the community to stop another section from voting, not the same thing at all

[–]BashFish [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

are ukip voters threatened and attacked for exercising their rights?

yes

no that doesnt count

'members of the community' attempted to stop another section from voting using intimidation and threats of violence, in premeditated, targeted (systemic) attacks. its exactly the same, but your fixed narrative and relativist world view will never allow you to see that

[–]VarishenDasCrimethInc [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Who are you qouting,could you respond to what I actually wrote,please?

But four million voted UKIP ,in the source I provided to the other user,only 110 out of 16,533 in the state of Florida dared to vote....

Again,there was no systemtic attempet to stop people voting UKIP before or during the election. So once must ask at what point where people not free to vote UKIP?

To try and compare the killing of black voters by whites,and prevention by the state between 1871-1904 is disengenious

[–]bottomlines [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

WTF are blabbing about voting for? Nobody is stopping anybody voting for anything.

However, you can't say that UKIP is playing the victim when their supporters often ARE victimised.

[–]Capsulets [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That shirt shows UKIPs' victim mentality very well,no-one is stopping people from voting UKIP.

Not really the issue. The issue is LGBT people not able to take part in the Pride Parade because of their political views, while members of other political parties are allowed.