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John Oliver talks about online harassment in cases where women are often the victims, comment section is flooded with salty men. (youtube.com)

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[–]monkey_man_ 70ポイント71ポイント  (25子コメント)

Youtube comments are the gold standard for crap comments on the internet. I'm surprised you didn't get brain damage from reading them.

[–]nedos[S] 23ポイント24ポイント  (20子コメント)

I can understand people disagreeing (even though I don't see how someone who cannot relate to a situation would allow themselves to comment on it). However, I see this everywhere. On Reddit, on YouTube, on Facebook. I call it the 'smart bigoted' because they will try and use big and impressive words in order to disguise their ignorance and make it look like they wrote a PhD thesis on the matter.

Amazing.

[–]monkey_man_ 25ポイント26ポイント  (15子コメント)

Remember the average demographic of this website and it will make a lot more sense. You know that guy you were arguing world politics last week in /r/worldnews? He's a 12 year old boy who makes bad grades in school. Obv not literally, but you get my point.

That is why you see so much of the ridiculous boys vs girls school yard crap on this site. That and a lot of people just refuse to grow in anyway. And I've always felt a large purpose of reddit is it is a place for shitty people to get together and congratulate each other on how shitty they are all while hiding behind the idiotic "free speech" BS the founders of this site used to spout off.

[–]shallowcore 15ポイント16ポイント  (2子コメント)

I try to remember that a lot of the people who are super smart and productive are probably, you know, working a lot of the time and not available to engage in long-winded arguments on Reddit.

I, on the other hand, tend to post mostly when I'm waiting for my probation officer.

[–]InTURRISting [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

you know, working a lot of the time

You'd be amazed at how little production is required to lead the pack by a fair margin.

[–]Threwitonthefround [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

boys vs girls crap

My new boyfriend is sending me garbage like that, written by angsty tweens with no sense of reality outside of confirmation-bias shitshows like redpill or whatever. He doesn't understand how "babe it's just a joke" isn't funny to me, because those "funny" 'all women are like this, poor men this is so unfair!' comics are evidence of what actual people really think--and that's precisely why they find it humorous. Maan I don't know how to feel about it. Not worth breaking up over, but it's evidence of serious differences in our mentalities and world views..

[–]misyo [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

TrollXChromosomes will be happy to help you find the appropriate response comments.

[–]cereblown42 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Show him things you find funny. See how he feels. Maybe you find a common ground in your sense of humor other places and he can try to impress you that way.

Also, make it clear that you want to be entertained not shocked, and you would rather laugh than roll your eyes. When put in these terms, you give him the option of choosing to consider your preferences or not without forcing him to decide in a vacuum an alternative to his established understanding of humor.

[–]Threwitonthefround [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

He's from a different country, where women are supposed to be delicate little pale sun-avoiding things with cutesy pootsy smiles and gentle/delicate ways of behaving. I like my raunchy, morbid, dark humor, and not only does he not like it, but it's unseemly for a girl to like those things.

He likes the "these certain people are all this way!" "teehee all insert astrological symbol are like insert random adjectives" humor. Which isn't humor, it just comes off as incredibly narrow minded and dull as hell.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't a serious relationship, and when we spend actual time together it's fine.. But when his narrow mentalities show through, I feel like a vein could burst in my forehead.

[–]cereblown42 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well make sure you're getting a good ROI, or consider diversifying your interests.

コメントをもっと表示する (6 返事)

    [–]Rickson_Dangerfield [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    Your downvotes are already flooding in. I cut of ties with a long time friend recently who fit this category, played it off like a big thinker but used complex metaphors to explain why he's on Cosby's side, women are always lying about abuse, etc etc etc. I get down votes right away on reddit too when bringing this stuff up as well.

    [–]nedos[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Yeah I started off with mostly downvotes. Stopped looking, to be honest. Oh well. At least people in the comments were generally pretty cordial.

    [–]Blubbey [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    On Reddit, on YouTube, on Facebook

    Usually best to not reading comments on the more popular things on these sites, there's a good chance they're going to be terrible.

    [–]nedos[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Yeah, I noticed. I have to admit I expected a lot more from Reddit but I guess the internet is the internet, wherever you go.

    [–]SteppeChilde 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Nothing of value has Ever been said on a Youtube comment.

    [–]terminator3456 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    Reddit default comments are just as low brow.

    [–]monkey_man_ [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Low brow and indicative of brain damage are two totally different things.

    [–]Plily -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I agree, I also love the so called white knights the most.

    They bash you for insulting someone while insulting you. It's the hugest gathering of hypocrites I have ever witnessed.

    [–]bratchny 61ポイント62ポイント  (4子コメント)

    The top comment speaks precisely to how I feel about it:

    It's fascinating how a minor example in overall argument is sufficient to cause people to reject that argument out of hand if they're inclined to do so. Regardless of whether or not you agree with Anita Sarkeesian's views (I personally do not), she was only one little part of John's discussion. If mentioning one person is sufficient to cause you reject that person's argument completely you really have to reflect on your own biases in that debate. This goes doubly if prior to now you regarded John as having integrity and well-argued points- why did that part of his personality suddenly change? Furthermore, Anita would not be in any way the "feminist icon" that she is (or however you wish to describe her) were it not for the deluge of abuse she initially received, which I saw with my own eyes here on Youtube before anyone gets stroppy. Nobody can capitalize on abuse they do not get and abuse like threats or rape or mutilation is, as was the point of this video, unacceptable behaviour. - Rockerchavnerdemo

    [–]AnnaTrocity 64ポイント65ポイント  (2子コメント)

    It can affect any woman who makes the mistake of having a thought in her head, and then vocalizing it online.

    So, so poignantly true. Particularly if she makes the especially egregious mistake of having a thought about sexism and vocalizing it online.

    [–]alwaysfrombehind [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    I don't understand why they have to get so emotional :(

    [–]TheOmni 43ポイント44ポイント  (6子コメント)

    I'm seeing a lot of places on Reddit pretty filled with salty men as well.

    [–]cereblown42 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    They should be more careful, they could rust their guns or stain their copies of "The God Delusion."

    [–]necker_cube [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

    Haha, the salty men have come here too.

    EDIT: I respect /u/nedos for responding to a lot of the nonsense replies this post has gotten. But I can't help but wonder if it's a waste of time, because it's clear a lot of people being salty aren't willing to listen.

    [–]nedos[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    It could be much worse! Honestly, I don't mind debates when people have different opinions, as long as people are not being rude about it. And very, very few people have been rude so far. I think I'm in the top ten rudest ones on this thread though. I feel really bad.

    [–]brlito [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    I just walked in from r/all, I'm eating a slice of pizza, there's chicken on it.

    [–][削除されました]  (24子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–]nedos[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (23子コメント)

      I guess I just saw humor rather than him blatantly saying White men have no problems.

      [–]♡scoobertron 11ポイント12ポイント  (13子コメント)

      Really? So if the line had been "if you don't suffer from online harassment, congratulations on your white vagina", you would have no issue with it?

      This would have been more appropriate (at least in the UK) given the gender of the majority of victims, but it would have falsely imply that women don't suffer online harassment, thus ignoring a large number of victims in order to get a cheap laugh. I don't think that would be acceptable, and I am surprised you feel otherwise.

      [–]-Themis- 14ポイント15ポイント  (4子コメント)

      Oh for fuck's sake. Use some basic logic. If I say "if you experience X, you are a member of group Y," that doesn't mean that (1) all members of group Y experience X, NOR that (2) no members of group Y experience X.

      Yes, if you have never been harassed online, or believe online harassment doesn't exist, you are almost certainly a man, or a woman with no online presence and a lot of obliviousness. This doesn't mean or imply that all men (or even a majority of men) has never been harassed online, or believes that online harassment doesn't exist.

      [–]DocWookieChris 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

      So these stats that say men are more likely to be victims of online harassment disagree with you. Women are more likely to be victims of stalking and sexual harassment, however.

      [–]♡scoobertron [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

      Don't swear at me please.

      I didn't think that Oliver was making a logical claim. However, I take it that you are parsing the conditional you have quoted as "If x has experienced online harassment, then is female", and that you take him to be using the universal quantifier (since an existentially quantified conditional of this type would be relatively trivial and uninteresting).

      My logic is a little rusty, but a universally quantified conditional is false if there is a single case where the antecedent is true (s experiences online harassment) but the consequent false (s is female). Since men form a substantial proportion of victims of online harassment (the majority in the UK), if we take John Oliver as making a logical claim, rather than a sloppy inferred generalisation, then his claim is straightforwardly false.

      To my mind, the most natural reading of the 'congratulations on your white penis' remark is that online harassment is not a problem for men. This is false, and is dismissive of male victims. I wouldn't consider it appropriate to start an article about e.g. street violence with 'if you have never experienced street violence, congratulations on your vagina'. So I don't understand why it is ok in this case.

      [–]Stickeesox [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

      Plural, not universal.

      Also it would be appropriate if the topic were women beating men in the street for being men.

      [–]♡scoobertron [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

      I'm not sure that plural quantification would make the proposition more interesting than existential quantification. Given the breadth of the domain of humans, to suggest that there are some humans such that if those s's have experienced online harassment then those s's are female is trivial (since there will indeed be multiple cases where the antecedent is true and the consequent is true). As an aside, I don't really know what work the conditional is doing here really, because it seems to imply a connection between being a victim and being female, but the biconditional doesn't hold, and I suspect that the relevant counterfactuals don't hold either (though as I mention, my logic is rusty). I suspect that no matter which quantifier is invoked, John Oliver's statement is either trivially and uninterestingly true, or straightforwardly false.

      I also don't understand what relevance the gender and motivations of the perpertrators of online harassment/street violence have when it comes to recognising victims. Are you suggesting that if the perpertrator is the same gender as the victim, then that victim is less worthy of recognition and support?

      [–]nedos[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

      I guess the thing is very few people know the real numbers. I've seen all the statistics, saying "Oh no, it's men" and "It's definitely women". All news outlet and sources have an agenda, and they draw the law between what they'd consider harassment and whatever other factors come into play.

      Another commenter came with an interesting point. He said women get more gendered harassment, while men just get harassment period. I think most of us think of harassment towards as gendered harassment, and most of us see it as more of a problem than plain harassment. That is also a problem.

      So if it was a well-known fact that white women have it easier on the internet, then yeah why not.

      [–]♡scoobertron 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Presumably, the fact that, as you say, very few people know the real numbers, mean that it is not a well known fact which gender 'has it easier'. And reinforcing an unfounded but widely held opinion that women don't suffer online harassment unfortunately leads to people believing that we don't need to create resources to support female victims of harassment. (A similar situation is found in provision for Domestic Violence victims - everyone thinks this is a problem exclusively for straight women, so all the support is targetted at them, which ignores other groups, such as homosexual victims).

      In short, I don't understand why anyone needs to claim that particular demographics aren't victims (or aren't worthy enough victims) of things like online abuse. What does it add to the conversation to say that there are a certain group of victims that we don't need to care about or support.

      [–]JerfFoo [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

      Some genders absolutely have it easier when you start talking about specific situations. Depends on what you're talking about.

      [–]InTURRISting [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

      Some genders absolutely have it easier when you start talking about specific situations. Depends on what you're talking about.

      This splitting hairs and trying to weigh the un-weighable doesn't make much sense now does it?

      Can we just say that Men and Women, and Trans, are all harassed in the way that the perpetrator finds to makes them the most vulnerable? We are all vulnerable. Sociopaths are very adept at identifying this vulnerability and exploiting us. It's not that Women are like Windows and Men are like Macs! A computer is a computer that runs software that may be vulnerable, a hacker will get in.

      Or perhaps non-computer analogy we all know:

      I'm tired of trying to compare apples and oranges or harassment and gender, when the barrel that holds them is still a 60 gallon jug. No one says "Hey that's a woman, let's go make fun of her muscles". No they find the thing that is liable to hurt them the most psychologically and go with that and it differs from person to person! So for many women, thats going to be go after their body image, their independence, their desire for love and safety. Not all women will fall for that kind of harrassment though. It's a very personal thing. For Anna Sarkesian, it's gaslighting and vile sexual harrassment because she has given these cues as to what will make her mind explode!

      When someone wants to harrass a man, they are going to go after what is important to him. To generalize Usually status, ability to provide, protect, how he compares to his peers. Can make a man fear you necessarily that the same things women are afraid of....so lets out him as gay to his folks, let's deliver pizzas he cannot afford. Let's reduce his standing with his social group throuh bullying. Let's SWAT his house while he's home safe gaming. But not all men are the same, for every Joe American *edit (vulnerable to public humiliation), there's a kid who is highly susceptible to harassment on his body image specifically.

      The means to the end is not worth measuring when the END is the same. These people who do this are not exploiting gender wars, they are exploiting their victims very personal issues, and/or throwing harrassment until they find one that sticks.

      What does it add to the conversation to say that there are a certain group of victims that we don't need to care about or support.

      Yeah we don't do a very good job caring about or supporting less obvious victims of harassment.

      [–]Arianity [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

      You also have to take into account that its seen as a way to "get you".

      Its not that you're female necessarily, its " this is something I can use as leverage to get a rise out of someone".they don't care what it is,gender just happens to be easily identifiable.

      [–]JerfFoo [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

      I have a feeling when I get home tonight, when I watch this video, I'm gonna find out you took what Oliver said entirely out of context.

      [–]werebothsquidward -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Ugh this sub is so shitty now that it's a default.

      [–]JerfFoo [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

      I haven't watched it yet, so feel free to give me exactly what he said, but it sounds like he said

      IF you don't get harassed online, you're probably a guy

      Which implies basically all women have to deal with harassment online, and guys usually don't. He never said no guys suffer harassment. He said of you don't get harassed, you're probably not a woman.

      [–]ItsThatFkingGuyAGAIN -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Hi OP, I'm worried you're taking all these reddit comments too seriously. Seems like you're getting sealioned if not brigaged here.

      If you haven't already abandoned this thread you probably should because many of these discussions are not worth having... it seems like a process of trying to wear people down sometimes.

      Anyhoo.. good luck, thanks for posting, and don't take reddit too much to heart.

      [–]nedos[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

      No, don't worry. Most people here are pretty nice and I like that. I kind of disregarded so many factors before sharing my opinion, and I'm glad they made me think. Those who are being mean for the sake of being mean, I don't care about them, plus there are so few of them.

      Oh well.

      コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

        [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

        [deleted]

          [–]kitanne 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Yeah, this thread is almost as bad as the Gizmodo post.

          [–]diskillery [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          Absolutely hilarious segment. I laughed out loud in the pharmacy several times. The Internet needs to change, we need to hold people to higher standards of decency and respect for others. All of this is real.

          [–]nedos[S] 46ポイント47ポイント  (101子コメント)

          It's incredible how people got mad, especially when John Oliver mentions Anita Sarkeesian for like 2.3 milliseconds. Some people are saying they lost respect for him. Really now?!?

          This is why I sometimes hate to see gender and sexism mentioned in any discussion whatsoever. There's always a salty man, or a "I'm not a feminist" woman who's going to comment about how men have it hard to. As if we cannot talk about a woman without mentioning a man.

          Sorry. I wanted to share.

          [–][削除されました]  (84子コメント)

          [deleted]

            [–]nedos[S] 30ポイント31ポイント  (80子コメント)

            Why can't he make a video on harassment towards women though?? Why can't he talk about just one topic? No one cares when he talks about one country, when dozens more go through the exact same thing. No one cares when he talks about one event in the US, when that same events happened three thousand times in three thousand other nations. But always, ALWAYS when someone talks about women problems, or minorities' problems, it is only then people remember "Yeah but how about men? How about White people?"

            Always.

            [–]xuchen 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

            I actually disagree with both of you.

            The video explicitly states that men are sole perpetrators of, and not victims of, online harassment (I don't believe there was a single mention of a woman committing online harassment). This was likely done for the ease of generalization, talking numbers like "x% of men are likely to have committed some form of online harassment vs x% of women.." is not as interesting to Oliver's target audience (albeit more accurate) and doesn't concisely convey his message; that being that women are by-and-large the main victims of online harassment.

            Lastly, of course there are going to be full gambit of comments to a video like this, in a way, that was the whole message of this video! If you read some of the comments from /r/videos you'll see that there are lots of people (I presume both men and women) that say "while I don't agree with Anita, I still think that Oliver did a good job of summarizing the problem". Seems pretty reasonable to me.

            Why focus on the outer extremes of the opinions, if you look for them (i.e youtube comments) you are going to find whatever fringe, extreme, nonsensical opinion you want.

            [–]-Themis- 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

            He says that if you don't believe harassment exists, you are a white male. This doesn't mean that (1) men are the sole perpetrators, or (2) men are never the victims. Simply that the people who believe it isn't a problem are of a particular group. This certainly aligns with the people who claim that it doesn't exist.

            [–]nedos[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

            "Sole perpetrators" I doubt it. Main, yes. It was harshly said, maybe. And yes it's heavily generalized.

            HOWEVER, I was talking more about people disapproving of his entire argument, saying it is false because he only talked about women victims. Imagine if he did an entire segment on racism towards East Asians, and said something like "Congratulations on your double eye-lid". First, don't you see the huge generalization? Second, would it mean that other races cannot feel racism, and that East Asians are all 100% angelic? Or is he just trying to focus on an issue East Asians have been going through for centuries, in 15 minutes?

            [–]DocWookieChris 9ポイント10ポイント  (39子コメント)

            As I said,

            It's one thing to not mention the male victims, it's another to purposely ignore them.

            When you generalize the bad guys as white men and completely ignore male victims, of course you are going to expect backlash. His message would have been just as strong if he didn't take the ding with "you must have a white penis"

            Plus a good portion of those clips he used of reporters "victim blaming" were stories about underage girls posting their own nudes online. Completely different than revenge porn. Plus his bing joke was ironic considering bing is #1 for porn searches. Overall, it was just a poorly researched segment.

            [–]nedos[S] 12ポイント13ポイント  (38子コメント)

            But my problem with the entire internet is when someone ignores other nations, other races, other sexes, no one bats an eye. When we ignore White people, or men, or America the country, and focus on the minorities or on women, or on small countries we never hear about, everyone loses their shit.

            If he were to talk for 15 minutes about a drought in Africa, the comment section would be flooded with "HOW ABOUT CALIFORNIA?!" Does it mean he doesn't care about Cali? No. Why can't he talk about another part of the word? If he talks about racism towards Eastern Asians, does it mean racism towards other races doesn't exist, and that he's dismissing them? No!

            He chose to talk about women, and so be it. Who knows, maybe next week he'll talk about men. Maybe he'll dedicate the entire month to men victims, I don't know. But why give him shit, and 'lose respect' for him? When did he hurt you?

            [–]KHShadowrunner 10ポイント11ポイント  (5子コメント)

            He chose to talk about women, and so be it. Who knows, maybe next week he'll talk about men. Maybe he'll dedicate the entire month to men victims, I don't know. But why give him shit, and 'lose respect' for him? When did he hurt you?

            I appreciate your hopefulness on equality, but here's the gospel truth:

            John Oliver is 99% unlikely to, next week, post another video labeled 'Online Harassment', and spend 16 minutes talking specifically about Males who were harassed, what men have to do in order to get nude pictures taken down, and list off the twitter threats they get as women. And you know this. This is why there are voices.

            None of this discussion was gender-neutral, on a topic that is gender-netural. Someone below mentioned that the issue is "isproportionately" affecting the sexes. Yet there's another thread here that says to look at the consensus of the internet, implying it is mostly men. I find it difficult to believe that both facts are true in the way that this whole thing seems to have labeled it.

            The truth is, here is a serious issue that needs to be discussed for everyone, and instead of discussing it as if it was for everyone, it's painted as men are bad, women are helpless. When we could have discussed it in terms of people online are bad, and the steps everyone has to take to combat them is stupid.

            [–]nedos[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

            I totally agree with you, I guess I did not take his comments as serious as most people have. Like this guy literally shits on everyone he wants to pin as 'problematic' (I mean, 99% of his videos criticizes America like it's a craphole, but he doesn't hate America or doesn't consider it to be a shit country and has even said he has 'abandoned' is Englishness). You cannot deny that women go through tons of crap on the internet, and the perpetrators are mostly men. And I don't see how acknowledging this problem automatically means all men are evil, men can't do no good. Again, like he is always shitting on the USA, I don't see it as a way to mean the US is a 100% shit, nothing good can come out of it, etc. (though ironically, that's what Europeans get from his videos).

            Oh well. I shouldn't have been surprised, to be honest. Humans.

            [–]KHShadowrunner 13ポイント14ポイント  (3子コメント)

            Well that's the trick to John Oliver. The reason you don't find the uproar when he talks about the US is because of how the topics are handled. Usually, he will post a solution that is both reasonable and feesable - such as there's this really shitty law that everyone should go against, or there's a hearing that we should write to our congress men (the very people he made fun of) and tell them that we dont like it.

            The point of the above is, he paints an enemy, and tells us to do something about it.

            This piece (and I believe it was unintentional), the target is online harassers, but he ONLY painted men as online harassers. And, he didn't give a solid solution to it, just a "These men are horrible". So what should we do? Tell these men to stop.

            Admittedly, This one particular issue is probably my strongest subject to have an opinion on (Online Harassment), so I did take it a healthy bit more serious. But it's the subtleties that get to you.

            So, here is what I would do as one of the commenters of youtube (I would never, ever, comment on youtube political issues).

            Can you name the harassment that a man can experience on the internet, and what would you advise that man to do?

            Finally: If that advice is advice you would also tell women, would you instead simply state this as general information?

            [–]nedos[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (2子コメント)

            He never gives a solution, ever. He talks about hot topics with a comedic undertone. When he gives out 'solutions', it's usually again, for comedic reasons. "Oh this guy did this? Piss him off by sending him this scripted message, and maybe he'll stop". "Russia is doing this? Hashtag Stop Russia" or whatever. Or he'll do petty (funny) promises just to get media attention, but he's not trying to be the hero America deserves, he just wants to share the news and make people laugh!

            [–]scarflash [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

            John Oliver talking about chicken farmers and their freedom of speech.

            I'd reccomend you watch the entire thing but skip to 16:26 if you don't have time. Although he does joke about it by saying chicken fuckers a bunch of times, John Oliver does want you to reach out to your state representative if they happen to be on that committee.

            [–]DocWookieChris -4ポイント-3ポイント  (31子コメント)

            First, I never said I lost respect for him. But it does get old hearing "you're a white male? You have no problems." over and over again. It even happens on this sub sometimes when a WOC tries to bring up a racial issue, but is ignored or downvoted. People talk about equal rights, but then weigh their issues on the color of their skin or the shape of their genitals.

            Trust me, as a kid who was an overweight "geek," harassment and bullying was something I dealt with on a constant basis. I am all for anti-bullying laws (though zero tolerance is too extreme) and ways to stop harassment (one of the reasons I stopped playing multiplayer on xbox 360).

            All I'm saying it don't do it at the expense of others.

            [–]nedos[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (30子コメント)

            HE NEVER SAID YOU HAVE NO PROBLEMS THOUGH! Just fewer, which you can't deny. And again, he's talking about the group, not each individuals. Like North Americans, we have a good life. As a whole, compared to another whole (let's go with the usual one, Africa). Doesn't mean that each individual North American have a better life than each individual Africans.

            And we will never achieve equal rights, if people who have been at the top for many years won't allow those that were at the bottom to catch up.

            If you've started the race years ago and I was only allowed to start running today, if you want me to catch up with you, don't continue at the same speed. Stop for a few seconds, and once I'm at your level, we can continue on together.

            [–][削除されました]  (11子コメント)

            [deleted]

              [–]cmallard2011 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

              If you've started the race years ago and I was only allowed to start running today, if you want me to catch up with you, don't continue at the same speed. Stop for a few seconds, and once I'm at your level, we can continue on together.

              This race analogy is a poor one since it implies that the rules for the race, the people running the race and the overall preparation for the race have somehow remained stagnant over the past 100 years. There are shifting factors which have simultaneously buoyed and diminished issues affecting both genders. I would make the wager that both men and women born in the 90s are more likely to provide one another with equitable treatment than those born mid-century.

              Your statement that men have fewer problems is the broadest of strokes.

              [–]nedos[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

              Yeah I agree. My analogy is not perfect, but I do think it has a valid point. I think men have an advantage in most of the world. Doesn't mean they have zero problems though.

              Anyway. Sorry, I was angry earlier.

              [–]cmallard2011 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

              It's ok! We all get angry online sometimes!

              [–]KHShadowrunner 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

              HE NEVER SAID YOU HAVE NO PROBLEMS THOUGH! Just fewer, which you can't deny.

              I can't speak for him, but can you truly, and honestly, say that this is true? Are there not women who are online who receive less threats than an overweight geek?

              [–]The_Bravinator [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              There are various axes.

              An overweight geeky white male will likely face fewer problems than an overweight geeky non-white woman.

              [–]DocWookieChris -2ポイント-1ポイント  (8子コメント)

              "if that doesn't seem like that much of a problem, congrats on your white penis."

              His exact words. Then goes into the "victim blaming is bad, mmkay?" spiel, but then pokes fun at a. weiner.

              And that whole "fewer problems thing" is such a cop-out. Maybe we should put women's rights to the side until we get black people up to par with white people then first?

              [–]KHShadowrunner 4ポイント5ポイント  (15子コメント)

              Why do you believe that Online Harassment is only a womens issue?

              [–]nedos[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (14子コメント)

              Quote exactly where I said it was a woman only issue.

              [–]KHShadowrunner 6ポイント7ポイント  (13子コメント)

              But always, ALWAYS when someone talks about women problems, or minorities' problems, it is only then people remember "Yeah but how about men? How about White people?"

              As if we cannot talk about a woman without mentioning a man.

              When linking a video about Online Harassment.

              [–]nedos[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (12子コメント)

              I'm sorry English is not my first language, but I'm pretty sure I never said it was a woman only issue. I said this guy is talking about women, and now men are crying in the comment section because he dared talking about women only. As if it's not allowed to talk about women only anymore, when we always talk about men only (and have been for centuries). It's not going to kill you to have, for once, something for women only. I do wish he acknowledges there are male victims (and I am 100% sure he knows that. He's a smart man). But why can't he talk about an issue where women are often the victims?

              [–]KHShadowrunner 5ポイント6ポイント  (11子コメント)

              That's fine, your English is quite good! Keep it up! Wish my French was even close.

              But understand this - If I were to open up that video and it say "Women - Online Harassment" or if i were to go to say, feminist frequency and pull up "Online Harassment", it would make sense that it is 100% going to be about women. If it were created here, it would make sense.

              But John Oliver reports about everything. When he talked about the IRS, he didn't phrase every comment about "The man having to pay for it". When he talked about the Miss America pageant, he didn't only talk about how mothers were forcing their daughters.

              So when he comes on to talk about "Online Harassment", and then spends 100% of the time ignoring a gender, people are going to be upset.

              [–]kratistos 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

              Why can't he make a video on harassment towards women though?? Why can't he talk about just one topic?

              He absolutely can. But in this case he specifically stated that harassment for (white) men does not exist. I get that it was a joke to make a point, but I do think that excluding the male populace in this discussion is unhelpful.

              [–]SquishSquash81 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              he specifically stated that harassment for (white) men does not exist.

              That's just simply 100% untrue.

              [–]nedos[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

              Again, I didn't see it as him saying it doesn't exist. I saw it as him, like he usually does, using crude humor to talk about an issue, and he decided to focus on one group rather than the other.

              [–]kratistos 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

              Meh, seems we have to agree to disagree.

              [–]nedos[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

              It's fine. : ) We have a different way of seeing things. Hopefully mine is not too biased. I think it was a little bit earlier though.

              [–]Wacnews 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

              It's divisive along gender lines. The war of the sexes is alive and well. Mostly for stupid reasons.

              Bringing up Sarkeesian, Zoe Quinn and Brianna Wu is prime bait for the GamerGate clusterscrew. Just watch your thread here explode over the day.

              I guarantee it.

              EDIT: I predicted this thread would explode. Four hours later and 208 comments and counting.

              Also three cheers for OP for being so gracious and engaging so many redditors.

              [–]KHShadowrunner 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

              Look, I can agree that it blowing up because of the names is the stupidest thing ever.

              But just because people have opinions on how this article on "Online Harassment" not only ignores men but deliberately paints them as the only perpetrators for it shouldn't label them as stupid reasons.

              [–]Wacnews 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

              Yeah, I meant gender wars on both sides are mostly for stupid reasons. The dig he made about "white men can't understand" is a joke but just is uneccesarly divisive. Nothing wrong with talking about specifically women getting harrased online, it's topical and a hot button issue. That little dig at the end is stirring the pot and Oliver knows it.

              He's not helping when he does crap like that.

              [–]KHShadowrunner 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

              This, I cant upvote enough. I dont love John any differently, in fact I loved the piece because it touches a stupidly important topic that is probably #1 on my list of things to be aware of. But it's that importance that allowed me to appreciate the article by taking every instance of him saying "he said this" and "he threatend with this" and just take out the 'he' part, replace it with "someone".

              It's a great piece, it's just catering (at least IMO). And, I can't hate someone for catering, the world does it. Just sucks, ya know?

              And then there are others who don't translate it, and sure, they get upset and vocal about it. To which I can understand. But the hating on individuals is just .. stupid. What a waste.

              [–]♡scoobertron [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

              He can. However, he also said that if you have not experienced online harassment, then 'congratulations on your white penis'. If you want to focus on a single group of victims, it seems somewhat mean-spirited to start out by suggesting that other kinds of victims don't exist. For example, if I wanted to talk about male victims of street violence, starting my article with 'if you haven't experienced street violence, congratulations on your vagina', would be dismissive of female victims of street violence.

              [–]AshleyBanksHitSingle [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              I think you misunderstood his joke.

              He was saying that all women and minorities have likely experienced online harassment so if you haven't then you likely have a "white penis." He wasn't saying no white men experience online harassment. You're mistaking what his comment was implying.

              コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                [–]Arianity [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                Two sides of the same coin.

                You saw always,always,and a lot of guys would say never never.

                To be honest,you're both a bit right. when it comes to major news sections(TV ,newspaper etc),its fairly one sidedly about females-people always bring up the male half,but in the comments.

                There's never a discussion in the actual paper/TV show etc.

                Its very female focused on the media,and the backlash happens here on reddit/social media.

                Its overdone ,but they feel like their voice isn't ever heard,so try to have some sympathy.

                [–]Shatteredreality -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

                He can (and did) make a segment focusing on on harassment towards women but he also focused it on online harassment in general and I think that was a mistake given the way he focused it.

                I'm a white male victim of online harassment (perpetrated by a women), it occurred almost 10 years ago and was nothing in comparison to what the women he featured on his show have had to go though but at the time I was scared for my life.

                I agree with the sentiment of the segment but I disagree with it's execution. I explicitly disagree with the quote "if that doesn't seem like that much of a problem, congrats on your white penis." because (while it may seem funny to hear) it does imply that people like me are immune to this kind of thing, which I can say is not the truth. It's really easy to find it funny but when it's something you've been through seeing the humor is difficult.

                I 100% agree that the majority of cases are perpetrated by men and women are the victims but John's coverage made it seem like all cases were that way which is why I have a problem with the segment.

                In regards to why can't he make a video on women's problems I think we fundamentally disagree to a point.

                Last month he did a segment on the fact that the US is woefully behind the rest of the world when it comes to paid maternity leave. I don't remember him mentioning paid paternity leave at all and I don't remember a huge blowback saying that he should have brought it up (I'm sure someone did but I didn't run across it). I was completely fine with that coverage (and agree with it 100% new mothers need a lot more in the way of paid leave and benefits then we give them) but in this case he took a gender neutral issue (albeit it is biased toward one gender more than the other) and made it appear to be a gender specific issue while ignoring the fact that it's not.

                I'm not offended by the segment, but I do feel like he could have covered it in a much better way and still made a completely valid and funny report.

                [–]nedos[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Again, I think the main thing is that personally, I saw it as crude humor. Which he does all the time. But oh well. Sorry if you felt uncomfortable. I can understand.

                [–]Shatteredreality 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                No need to apologize, it's the dark side of humor. It's very hard to be funny without alienating or offending someone. Honestly I'm only disappointed that due to that one line it is making the piece (which I agree with mostly) seem a lot less of a serious issue.

                [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

                [deleted]

                  [–]nedos[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Well first, I am not apathetic. I am annoyed at people's reaction when it comes to topics about gender.

                  Second, there are more than two genders, so imagine how ignored people who are non-binary must be (and how harassed they must be because not many people acknowledge that they're 'a thing'.)

                  And again, your personal experience doesn't change the general experience. He was not talking about each individuals, but of the group of people.

                  [–]♡scoobertron -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  It's one thing to not mention the male victims, it's another to purposely ignore them

                  Or, indeed, to deny that they exist.

                  コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                    [–]diskillery [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                    Thank you for sharing. We are all frustrated by this.

                    [–]Azothlike [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                    Salty man

                    I'm not a feminist woman

                    These are very clever categories of human beings you have here. So you always categories, 'Other', and dismiss people who disagree with you?

                    This is the reality that you glossed over:

                    As if we a news agency cannot talk about a woman an issue that affects everyone, but mostly men, without mentioning a woman while mentioning a bunch of women sympathetically and no men.

                    Correct. You can't do that, without having people with common sense that disagree with you (I'm sorry, salty men and Imnotafeminist women) speak up.

                    Source: Men are harassed online 119% as much, and given serious assault threats 166% as much. Which is okay, as long as you don't run a news show and pretend it's a woman's issue.

                    [–]nedos[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                    I don't want to sound rude, but if you are going to comment on an older thread where people are discussing, please just read through the comment. I get it, many people have said the same thing you just said.

                    The thread is pretty much over, I'm just trying to reply to people I've mistakenly ignored.

                    [–]Randomguy2421 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                    Tbh, I feel like the issue stems from the fact that talking about men's issues is discouraged in society. Most of the time, the only issue we're allowed to talk about is that we're discouraged from expressing ourselves. That's the only thing anyone is willing to acknowledge as a double standard. Everything else is scoffed at, and if we mention other issues, we're quickly reminded how bad women have it and that we're living in a patriarchal system where we benefit; that we should get onboard with feminism.

                    When anyone does mention that irritating fact, some choose to say "well, feminism is about equality so men will benefit, too" which is pretty much implicitly saying "I don't care. Get onboard with feminism and shut up" as far as I can tell.

                    So yes, I agree that it's stupid and counter-productive to constantly mention men whenever someone is trying to have a discussion about the injustices women face, but that's only because men don't really have a platform to speak on... and if they try it they either get told to shut up or accused of being a man who is simply reacting to having his privilege taken away - our issues just don't really matter to anyone, and we're expected to be apologists for a time period none of has had anything to do with.

                    Edit: just to clarify, this is mostly based on my experience over in the city I live (I went to a very liberal school) so I can't speak for other areas. I fully recognize that I live in the heart of where you'll find the kind of person fighting for equality for women/minorities after the years of oppression and don't get me wrong - I encourage it. That said, I have seen cases where activists have come to protest/shut down speakers who are trying to talk about men's issues, but I do recognize that I spend a lot of time on reddit which will lead to exposure to only certain kind of info. My main point is that I wish gender issues weren't constantly a pissing contest, and I do recognize that some men are often guilty of trying to bring up men's issues when there is a women's issue on the table, but women aren't exactly great at listening to men's issues if you try and talk about them either, and current society isn't too inviting a place to talk about them and I think this is why you have a certain sub-set that reacts so viscerally whenever the latest article comes out talking about how privileged men are and how we need to be "taught" to like feminism, and not to rape (as if our default was to be a mindless predator) - all while being reminded that if we don't we're ignorant and sexist and that MRA's and anyone who tries to be a voice for men are bigots. Give us a platform and we'd shut up, but we're not allowed to have one - or one that isn't immediately scoffed at and ridiculed. I can't tell you how many times I've drunkenly tried to mention some of the issues that bother me, only to be met with "you're a straight white man. Shut the fuck up. What do you know?" and then laughed at for "oh you must have it so hard." I'm not saying I have it worse than anyone, but I'm not allowed to express my own views unless they agree with yours? Some privilege. Maybe I'd be more on board with empathizing with these - albeit important - issues if the person I'm expected to empathize with would try and empathize with me beyond the token "men don't express their feewings enough" ironically only to be told that my feelings are wrong if I express them.

                    [–]nedos[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                    I personally never saw the 'lack of platform' men had, to be honest. I said this to another user and I guess it's relevant here, but personally I only see men being given the time to talk about issues. However, they almost always talk about things that do not concern them. They want to punish foreigners and women and blablabla. When they literally are given all this time and attention to talk about whatever! But I'm guessing men in power don't care about people's problems in general, be in men's or women's. But I always assumed that since men are mostly in power, men were given more chances to be heard.

                    [–]Randomguy2421 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                    I see what you're saying, but just because I'm a white man and there's a white man in power doesn't mean he's going to try and talk about my problems - exactly like you said. I guess camaraderie between white men isn't as strong, so we're not all backing each other up and trying to address our "group" issues like other people are. Unfortunately, this then leads to me being ridiculed if I say my issues aren't being addressed since everyone seems to think that if there's a white man in congress surely I'm spoken for.

                    コメントをもっと表示する (10 返事)

                      [–]nashife [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                      If you use the HideFedora chrome extension, you have a MUCH better experience with Youtube. Most of those comments seem to be from reddit. With the extension, most of the comments are in defense of the video and calling out people for ridiculous Anita hate.

                      https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hide-fedora/acjgabfifnnmmlckmnijdbijgbfpedde?hl=en-US

                      [–][削除されました]  (37子コメント)

                      [deleted]

                        [–]Cleverbeans 36ポイント37ポイント  (9子コメント)

                        So I'm been trying to find a credible source saying she faked the death threats, and I can't find anything. Do you have a source that isn't just speculation based on screenshots of twitter?

                        [–][削除されました]  (8子コメント)

                        [deleted]

                          [–]Cleverbeans [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                          So basically she was threatened, the FBI felt the threat was non-credible but that's a huge leap to conclude that she fabricated the threats herself as some people are claiming here.

                          Also, most bomb threats are non-credible but they're taken seriously for a reason. What you dismiss as a "silly, over the top empty letter" was a serious criminal offense that carries a harsher punishment than say, rape or assault with a deadly weapon. I'm not sure why you're minimizing it.

                          [–]SquishSquash81 [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

                          Source?

                          [–]crosslit [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

                          Utah State Today, stating no danger, proper security measures

                          The speaker, Anita Sarkeesian, canceled the presentation. She was concerned about the fact that state law prevented the university from keeping people with a legal concealed firearm permit from entering the event. University police were prepared and had a plan in place to provide extra security measures at the presentation.

                          I can't actually find the articles that stretch the truth, so here's a slanted Verge one;

                          'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university talk

                          Sarkeesian later announced on Twitter that she had been forced to cancel the appearance because of security fears; requests for firearm searches at the venue were turned down because of Utah's relaxed open-carry laws. A member of the Center for Women and Gender confirmed to The Verge that the threat was real

                          She also then appeared on a few news station, one prolific one showing her with "police escorts" (which turned out to be campus police on closer inspection)

                          [–]DancingToTomWaits [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                          I still don't see the proof that Anita herself faked it?

                          If I was giving a talk, I'd cancel too, even if the threats didn't eventually get carried out or were pranks by morons. If I got a prank bomb threat (without knowing that it was a prank), I'd call the police. Looking at your later comments, you know that campus police counts as police too, right? And that calling them a 'police escort' on the news is in no way inaccurate? Canceling, telling the police, letting campus police walk you around, these all see like pretty normal, unsurprising, logical things to do.

                          [–]SquishSquash81 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                          I'm still not seeing anything about her making anything up, which seems to be what everyone is in such a fuss over. I find it unlikely she would have been hurt at the event, but I've never received death threats before, so I'm not about to start judging how they might make you feel.

                          [–]notsoinsaneguy 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          I don't know if you noticed, but John Oliver is a white male. I'm quite certain he doesn't believe his opinions and experiences don't count.

                          EDIT: After watching the whole thing, it seems he made one joke about white dudes in the very beginning of the show and that was it. And the joke was that white dudes see a different internet than non-white non-dudes. Which I hope you can agree is true? Particularily given that the episode was largely about revenge porn, something which does primarily affect women. Does it affect men as well? Yeah, it sure does, there are recorded cases where men have been victim to revenge porn. Should he have mentioned it explicity? Probably, but I don't think the take away message we get for him discussing an issue that primarily affects women as an implication that it doesn't matter when it happens to men. He actually does use a lot of gender neutral language throughout, and while he never does acknowledge that this happens to men as well, he doesn't ever say that "when this happens to men, it doesn't matter", nor does he ever say nor imply that it doesn't happen to men.

                          [–]nedos[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (23子コメント)

                          I totally agree with you. I' sorry early I was just a bit angry because the comment sections featured irrational and just hateful comments. Ironically, I'm doing the same.

                          But yeah I agree with you. However, I am still annoyed at most of the comments, as they were not pointing out rational mistakes Oliver might have made. Him featuring Sarkeesian could be just to get specific words she has pronounced in the past, without really agreeing with her or approving of her behavior.

                          The "White men don't count" attitude is definitely problematic, but I think the reason why it's there is because, in my experience anyway, White men seem to have a bigger platform to voice their opinion. So if someone who has the opportunity to reach as many people as possible chooses to talk about an issue that affects people who have more chance of having their issue heard, it could be really annoying for those who can't be heard as much.

                          [–][削除されました]  (13子コメント)

                          [deleted]

                            [–]Flowah 7ポイント8ポイント  (11子コメント)

                            You think that but by any reasonable objective metric it's not true.

                            White males are well represented or overrepresented in nearly every facet of our lives. Business, politics, media. You control disproportionate amounts of wealth and power and airtime. Society is geared towards your benefit. White males make more money for the same job, get hired more with the same qualifications, get promoted more, get harassed by police less.

                            You feel like you don't have a platform for the same reason Christians think they're being attacked in this country. People are starting to push back against inequities and against things you've gotten used to having.

                            [–]MLKane 13ポイント14ポイント  (4子コメント)

                            Except the platform being referred to is not about representation in government, employment or media, all areas that have legitimate concerns about equal representation.

                            The platform that white males lack is one of social and psychological support for issues like male suicide, depression, rape, domestic violence etc. In these areas men are empirically unsupported, and the race of the man involved can also be a negative factor in their treatment either as a white person or a person of colour.

                            This idea that white men are unilaterally better off and any perceived issues are just their discomfort with losing privilege is an insidious and offensive attempt to dismiss legitimate concerns because of sexist and outdated attitudes.

                            [–]zhongshiifu [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                            Well you just admitted right hear you dont even know what the thing is that you disagree with.

                            Privilege does not mean men have their feet kissed and all men have it easy, it just means there are certain advantages present in society. A lot of men's issues like every single one you listed are indeed partially contributed to by patriarchal sexist beliefs (that men cannot be hurt by women, that men who are mentally ill are week, etc, and so they do not need support).

                            That does not at all contradict privilege.

                            [–]shponglonius 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Thanks for saying this, I think you're both right. Seems to me the general attitude is often "white men don't need help" because of the general facts Flowah mentioned said not "white men don't count". But that's just wrong in some cases when it comes to the issues we're discussing.

                            [–]redzenfan -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            This idea that white men are unilaterally better off and any perceived issues are just their discomfort with losing privilege is an insidious and offensive attempt to dismiss legitimate concerns because of sexist and outdated attitudes.

                            This is your total misreading of the meaning of privilege. What it means is that all other things being equal it is better to be white and male than not-white and not-male. White men face disadvantages in the world, but they rarely face disadvantages because of their whiteness or because of their maleness, as white women or black men or black women might.

                            コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                              [–]HardDudes 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              You control disproportionate amounts of wealth and power and airtime.

                              Wow I had no idea KHshadowrunner had all those things.

                              [–]wckb [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                              More money for the same job? Wow! I'd love to see evidence of this!

                              Hey, if you're going to throw talking points around at least get them right.

                              Men on average make more money than women on average, not for the same job, but as a gender as a whole vs the other gender as a whole.

                              Wait you're talking about white men getting harassed by police less? Who do you think gets harassed by the police even less than white men? Heres a hint, its the same gender that enjoys a lower conviction rate for the same crimes and lower sentences for the same crimes.

                              [–]zhongshiifu [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                              No, read up. Even if you control for profession, there is still a pay gap. There is lots of research showing a gender gap in pay within the same profession. The causes are manyfold, however, and a substantial one is that women themselves do not negotiate. However this is in part due to how men and women are socialized. I recommend checking out the book Women Don't Ask. It largely talks about how on top of the fact that women don't make as much as men, women are socialized to not feel comfortable asking for what they need or deserve, in part because women who ask for things are seen as overly assertive/bitchy.

                              I am more in agreement with you about the police harassment rate. Men are definitely sentenced longer. That is an example of sexism, that men are assume to be stronger/more violent. OC may have been wrong in saying that but the rest of their points I think are valid.

                              [–]wckb [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                              You mean the pay gap that is within the margin of error and could be accounted for by negotiation ability? Damn patriarchy at it again!

                              There are areas where women make more than men, look at recent college grads in metropolitan cities. Women out earn men from 20-29. Are we going to say that's sexism against men and the matriarchy at work? Or did men suddenly not learn how to negotiate at that age and pick it up in their 30s and 40s when women start to fall behind?

                              Yea white men drew a good stick in life (via no talent of their own) but I'm sick of hearing this shit about how pretty much everything is just handed to them. You have this you have that you have this and that. You know what's infinitely more useful than white privilege? Class privilege, but yet if you asked around here the woman making 150k a year will still think men have an advantage over her when they're making 50.

                              [–]KHShadowrunner -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                              Interesting, but I'll take it and learn from it. What would you suggest to a white male whom their respective "AirTime" does not match their view?

                              [–]Flowah -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              That no one is compelled to give you air time, but thankfully as a white male there are less barriers for you to get air time.

                              [–]nedos[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              Yeah. I think we should, me included, just stop with the generalization I guess. I can be easier to talk about an issue that touches many people that way, but I can understand that people with specific situations may be put aside, and when it happens too often, it gets frustrating.

                              Anyway. I've changed my point of view slightly. I was way too biased earlier.

                              [–][削除されました]  (6子コメント)

                              [deleted]

                                [–]shallowcore 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                The steam room at your local country club, obviously.

                                [–]nedos[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                Literally the entire internet is. The only website I know where men are being oppressed and encouraged to shut up is Tumblr.

                                Socially speaking, men are usually the ones given the opportunity to talk about problems, but they often chose not to talk about things that concerns them. For instance, more men seem to be into this fight against abortion or the pill, but very few will talk about single fathers or victims of sexual abuse.

                                That's the problem. If you have a problem, you don't need to put down the other ones in order for your problem to seem more important. But that's what men in power do.

                                Or maybe the problem is that men in power cannot relate to the general population of men so they're ignoring everyone's problems.

                                [–]sprite_n_halo 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                "Literally the entire internet is. The only website I know where men are being oppressed and encouraged to shut up is Tumblr."

                                So...not literally the entire internet.

                                [–]nedos[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                Unless you consider Tumblr to be important/influenceable, I don't see what's wrong with my statement.

                                [–]KHShadowrunner 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                Or maybe the problem is that men in power cannot relate to the general population of men so they're ignoring everyone's problems.

                                This is beautiful. And likely the truth.

                                Ultimately, there are a very small few that are thought to represent the whole. But underneath, the truth is far from it.

                                [–]PooOnYoureFoot -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                Or maybe the problem is that men in power cannot relate to the general population of men so they're ignoring everyone's problems.

                                We have our Viagra now, there is nothing wrong with the world!

                                [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

                                [deleted]

                                  [–]-Themis- 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  Apparently "goes off the reservation" means have an opinion that you don't share.

                                  That's hilarious, and a great example of perspective.

                                  [–]stwag 7ポイント8ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                  Of course it's obvious both men and women get harassed on the internet and elsewhere. John Oliver isn't singling just one demographic out. The reason he focuses on harassment of women is because it happens more often. It's more prevalent. That's why movements such as the feminist movement is a thing. It's not about how "all men are evil" or "women over men." It's a thing because women have often experienced more inequalities and harassment and discrimination than men have. It's the same thing with the gay rights movements. Why isn't there a straight movement? Be thankful you don't need one. Gay pride wasn't born out of the need to celebrate being gay, but their right to exist without persecution.

                                  [–]DocWookieChris [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                                  just fyi, according to this online harrassment happens more to men, not women. Women are 2x more likely to be sexually harrased and much more likely to be stalked, however

                                  [–]SdstcChpmnk [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                  Which is what Jon did his entire segment on, so what the hell is everyone all butthurt about? All these stats being posted show that women are sexually harassed at nearly 2X the level of men, the younger the woman, the worse it gets.

                                  Seriously, its frustrating to watch all of the SJW's get shit on for their cis, bi, pan labels all the time, and then have all of the men come back whenever it is something that affects them and start bringing in all of the "Well, I'm fat, or short, or nerdy" so somehow that makes them a special snowflake that means that their white maleness doesn't count. Every single person is the exception to every single problem because white men have no concept of how easy they have it even when they have it rough.

                                  コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                    [–]redrod1 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                                    What about these stats that state men are the victims of online harassment more often?

                                    http://www.pewinternet.org/2014/10/22/part-1-experiencing-online-harassment/

                                    [–]zhongshiifu [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                                    It sort of depends how specific you get. Just focusing on sexual harassment, women experience more. However it seems men experience more harassment overall.

                                    However you also have to consider: what do men do on the internet vs. women do differently that results in harassment? Are men and women more or less likely to engage in online conversations with strangers? What is the nature of the harassment? We don't have that data (yet).

                                    You also have to consider that John Oliver is specifically talking about harassment of sexual nature, including especially those who are public figures being threatened with rape/murder. That's different from some dude on the internet saying something violent to you and you're both anonymous. I am sure that prominent men also get threatened but I would be interested in seeing more data about a breakdown.

                                    [–]redrod1 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                    It sort of depends how specific you get. Just focusing on sexual harassment, women experience more. However it seems men experience more harassment overall.

                                    I like your phasing here.

                                    However you also have to consider: what do men do on the internet vs. women do differently that results in harassment? Are men and women more or less likely to engage in online conversations with strangers? What is the nature of the harassment? We don't have that data (yet).

                                    Are you suggesting men put themselves into more situations where they are harassed and thus get harassed more? Hmmm this sounds very close to victim blaming to me, put this line of thinking towards another crime and you would be shut down straight away.

                                    [–]GrandHighWitch123 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                    Reaction to video about online harassment demonstrates the subject of the video.

                                    As always, the manosphere shoots itself in the foot.

                                    [–]nedos[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                    Not sure if anyone will see the, but thank you all for responding. As maybe of you might have guessed, I was extremely pissed. Now I calmed down, tried my best to be unbiased, and I can understand some of the reactions. However, I am still annoyed by the blatant sexism in the comment section, which is something I only see when men are put aside.

                                    Anyway. Thanks again.

                                    [–]Wacnews 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                    Good Job OP. You were mad but you definitely listened and handled it well IMO.

                                    [–]nedos[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                    Thanks a lot. I should really stop starting threads out of anger though : )

                                    [–]anyidentity [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                                    I think this is a really important issue and he addresses it rather well...if you hadn't beat me to it, I certainly would have posted the same clip. Thank you for bringing it to everyone's attention.

                                    コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                      [–]SdstcChpmnk [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                      You're not wrong and I feel like you handled it great.

                                      [–]destinypallooker 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                      As a dude who has received credible online threats, this angle annoys me. Women don't get more anonymous threats, they just get more gendered ones. It sucks but there's not an acceptable policy solution.

                                      [–]nedos[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                      I like how you put it. I guess I am biased in the sense that to me, more gendered insulted = more in general. Because yeah, I always see women being called names, but when it's a man, or the gender is unknown, the insults are more 'general'. Shouldn't mean it's okay though.

                                      Thanks for changing my perspective.

                                      [–]SdstcChpmnk [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                                      I gotta disagree a little bit there. I don't think that general threats or insults are in any way the same as gendered or specific threats. When threats are more personal, the fear and the concern is proportionately more personal. If I tell you you fucking suck, that's a tick mark in your "I got harassed" bonnet. But If I tell you (On an anonymous profile) "Lady I'm going to rape you" That's a specific gendered and personal threat.

                                      I honestly feel like that's something that the large majority of guys simply don't receive (Obviously some do, but it's not cause to not discuss something because the rate of occurrence is not 100% one way or the other) and don't understand.

                                      I have gotten into some AWFUL flame wars with lots of people, and I have never been subject to the bullshit and stalking levels of specific threats that my wife and female friends have been. It really just isn't the same.

                                      [–]destinypallooker 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      It's all antisocial nonsense. I just wish we would frame it as a bad thing in general you know?

                                      [–]Desi_Wolverine -1ポイント0ポイント  (13子コメント)

                                      Love John Oliver's show but his take on online harassment made it seem like only women suffer cause of it. As someone who has received threats on the internet it's quite discouraging to see my concerns get dismissed cause of my gender. Also not all online harassers are men, there is a pretty big section of women who do the same to anyone who do not agree with their pov. Only good thing about that piece was that it highlighted the need to have a revenge porn law, but the rest of it was extremely lopsided, basically making it "only women" issue, which is not the case.

                                      [–]new_c [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                      It's not about harassment in general, it's about the gender-based harassment only women have to deal with. Nowhere on the internet will you be insulted for being a man. People don't have their lives ruined for being men on the internet.

                                      [–]DocWookieChris 6ポイント7ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                      I was just browsing the /r/television thread on this video and someone posted these statistics. link 1 link 2 and the stats are pretty interesting

                                      [–]Desi_Wolverine 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                      Actually i have seen the link 1 page few months back. Cyber-bullying is a big issue and we need stronger laws against cyber-bullying. But making it a gender specific issue is a poor choice from John i must say.

                                      [–]DocWookieChris -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                      Yeah, i agree. Women definitely suffer from stalking to a MUCH higher degree than men, but to say online harrassment is a "woman's issue" is disingenuous.

                                      [–]Flowah 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      Same reason police brutality can be characterized as a racial issue even if it's not 100% exclusively a non-white problem.

                                      [–]wckb [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                      Except if you could read you would see that the links show men get more harassment on the internet...?

                                      コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                                        [–]SquishSquash81 [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

                                        Love John Oliver's show but his take on online harassment made it seem like only women suffer cause of it.

                                        I think you are putting that spin on it yourself. He certainly said that women gets harassed more or in a different kind of way, the latter of which I certainly find to be true.

                                        [–][削除されました]  (4子コメント)

                                        [deleted]

                                          [–]Gabranth 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                          I fear TwoX is pretty much invaded and finished now.

                                          [–]ItsThatFkingGuyAGAIN 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Default subs seem to have devolved to a few notches above kind of long-form youtube comments. Although sadly, I have not really helped elevate the level of discourse. [commits seppuku]

                                          [–]TheOmni 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                          I think I see the mods taking care of a lot, but there really is quite a lot.

                                          [–]ItsThatFkingGuyAGAIN -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          I feel bad for OP, she seems to be taking it way too much to heart.

                                          [–]I4dcQsEpLzTHvD1qhlDE 1ポイント2ポイント  (16子コメント)

                                          Too bad he is full of shit like usual: http://www.pewinternet.org/2014/10/22/online-harassment/

                                          [–]nedos[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                          The thing is, you can find a source saying the exact opposite. So unless you conduct the researches yourself, you may never know.

                                          [–]I4dcQsEpLzTHvD1qhlDE [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

                                          The thing is, you can find a source saying the exact opposite

                                          No, I can't. I can find a source that people misrepresent to claim the opposite, but is only looking at "sexual harassment" where sexual harassment is defined as anything specific to being a woman, but not things specific to being a man. Thus someone being called a bitch (regardless of their sex) is sexual harassment, and someone being called a dick is not. That does not at all show the opposite.

                                          [–]Daario1 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                          But Pew research has been known to be fairly reputable.

                                          コメントをもっと表示する (10 返事)

                                            [–]EmphaticGreyMage [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                            See the way to go about things like that...

                                            If you don't fall in the category of the people being described, then you don't need state that 'you don't/wouldn't do that'

                                            [–]complex_girl [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                            Jesus, even this comment section is flooded..how ironic. Just because someone wants to bring up a point about sexism, doesn't automatically dismiss everyone else's problems...thus, I will never understand why people get all salty. You solve nothing by crying, "what about meee?"

                                            --- The REAL issue is that yes, you can be harassed on the internet for being geeky/nerdy, for weight (we all know some people love to critique other's bodies, especially on the internet), etc. But does anything happen to you throughout your life, and permeate through all the way to the internet, specifically and singularly because of your GENDER, all other things considered...that makes you fear for your LIFE?

                                            Edit: And, before people jump on this, of course, we must acknowledge male issues, namely victims of domestic violence, as that is a HUGE issue, with sadly no support for them.

                                            [–]Dert_ [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                            Maybe because they're tired of having their problems ignored while everybody only cares about women's problems?

                                            Not to mention some of the "victims" were Anita sarkeesian and Brianna Wu.

                                            Edit: Also, the video doesn't really have it's facts straight, hence the quotes around "victims"

                                            [–]anyidentity [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

                                            190 comments, only 61 up votes, 47% downvoted. It's a sad day for this sub when an issue as important as this one is consistently and constantly downvoted by people who do not actually support the ideals of our community.

                                            [–]DocWookieChris [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                            I downvoted this thread while upvoting the ones in /r/television and /r/videos because of how the OP worded it. Instead of having a discussion on the video, she made it seem like anyone who disagreed with the segment was a "salty man"

                                            Reddit 101: your title is 90% of what determines the votes

                                            [–]nedos[S] [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                                            I think my title is a little bit harsh, no? Maybe some people just saw the title and thought "Ugh. One of those men-hating 'feminists' again. Downvote."

                                            [–]anyidentity [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                                            Definitely NOT your fault whatsoever!! If you pay attention, you'll notice how every Monday morning, the top story from Last Week Tonight hits the front page, yet today, it's nowhere to be found...

                                            [–]karnyboy -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                            My mother raised me on a few simple rules, one of which was "if you have nothing nice to say, then don't say anything. "

                                            The Internet generation and gen X's are in dire need of this filter.

                                            [–]MadPoetModGod 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            I think you're getting downvoted for a couple reasons:

                                            You've broad brushed two entire generations in your comment. There is no Internet Generation, they are Millennials. Ironically most of the younger millennials I have known do very little on the internet writ large and opt to stick to social media platforms instead. So calling them the Internet generation, although in line with media archetypes, is only partially accurate. That said, boomers have long since taken over facebook which is known for being almost as much a bastion for hate filled speech as youtube or Twitter.

                                            Millennials are paradoxically known for being "too nice". You hear it everywhere. "Everyone is afraid of offending anyone so you can't say anything anymore." While this is an exaggeration, Millennials, by and large, are known for taking the very adage you are quoting to heart fervently. They are statistically the most tolerant and docile generation we have yet produced. No matter what your impression by media saturation, the numbers say otherwise. This is believed to be contributing to the rise in suicide rates; an entire generation born with thin skin. The confrontational counter culture of the boomers and X'ers has all but disappeared. There is an aggressive vocal minority but it is firmly the minority. And more than one case of online harassment of a minor leading to suicide has been headed by a boomer, just FYI. The offenders referenced in the piece actually run the gamut of age.

                                            Your quote connotes complacency in the face of injustice. "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" is a phrase long utilized by older generations to socially preserve the status quo. It's antiquated in that way. While it can be used to discourage the sort of bile & harassing speech at the heart of the discussion, it is also a blanket statement for silence in the face of any unpleasantness. For instance a relative of mine was told this in the 1970s when she tried to tell an adult that an older man was making her feel uncomfortable. Not long afterward that older man raped her. That same adult from before ostensibly repeated her previous sentiment but worded more strongly the second time through. The words "how dare you" may have come up, it was a long time ago. Now I know what you meant by that phrase. Several of us do, but it has come to be burdened with far more baggage than you realize. We like to speak our minds these days, even if it's unpleasant. Often the most productive progress comes from extremely unpleasant conversation.

                                            And just to clarify, I don't mean to admonish, I understand your comment was meant as a nearly innocuous injection of common sense from a bygone era. I mean only to elucidate why it may have hit a wall of unpopularity.

                                            [–]SPWatwin [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

                                            I believe the reason that lots of 'salty men' are upset with John using Sarkeesian as an example for online harassment is that she has been proven time and again to manipulate, and blatantly lie to her audience and the media inorder to further her cause.

                                            I believe this video very neetly sums up why this group of people don't like her: http://youtu.be/WuRSaLZidWI

                                            [–]nedos[S] [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

                                            I never knew about her until just now, actually. And I understand to a certain extend. However, John Oliver only quoted her. I don't think it's enough reason to dismiss the entire segment.

                                            Reminds me of a thread on AskReddit where people were asked to share their favorite quote. Someone quoted Hitler (it was a pretty good quote). And then he said "It's not because the person is a terrible person that everything they said is wrong and stupid." And I think it's the same. What she said is true. Coming from her mouth might be ironic and funny, but she's still speaking the truth. As long as you're not praising her, whatever.

                                            [–]Aisha11 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                            I think he's generally on point. Revenge porn is obviously awful. Same for online abuse that shares the same characteristics as plain old stalking (or pitchforking for that matter). Where we have to tread carefully is the fine line between all-encompassing free speech, which was one of the defining features of a completely anonymous internet prior to the millenium, and the need for accountability, censorship and legislation.

                                            I don't strongly side with either of these groups on this argument - I can empathise with both. Completely anonymous, unaccounted for communication comes with massive benefits for the free sharing of ideas. But it also comes with greater scope for abuse and toxicity. Censorship and legally screened communication minimizes the risk of harm overall, but it also runs the risk of limiting the range of ideas and perspectives that may be shared. All I can really say is that I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed that certain individuals devalue the blanket anonymity the internet offers by using it to cause harm (as a game developer, it's particularly depressing to see it in the gaming community).

                                            [–]mega_trex [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                                            If you expect YouTube comments to be anything but horrible you're gonna have a bad time.

                                            [–]nedos[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                            Lesson learned! I had too much hope earlier today!

                                            [–]mcthsn [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                            As a male I really enjoyed this piece last night and I'm glad he had the balls to get this info out there.

                                            [–]nicholasferber [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                            People have white penises?? How DARE they!

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