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The Big Bang...a Big Lie? (self.conspiracy)

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[–]WideAwakeNWO 2ポイント3ポイント  (25子コメント)

Cross-species evolution which is being taught in schools as absolute fact is the biggest hoax they've ever pulled.

It allows them to brainwash kids to think that there's no heaven, only hell, and there's no higher purpose for humans. This has allowed for the state to become the higher power, or the God to many people.

It's a sick joke in my opinion, one that holds 0 weight when tested scientifically.

[–]HaltNWO 2ポイント3ポイント  (18子コメント)

Cross-species evolution which is being taught in schools as absolute fact is the biggest hoax they've ever pulled.

Can you explain what you mean? I was always taught that a species evolved over time, not that it just turns into something else completely or that it evolves with another species.

[–]WideAwakeNWO -5ポイント-4ポイント  (17子コメント)

This video claims that due to a big bang, a single cell organism evolved into multi-cell organisms, which then evolved over time to humans.

Evolution being taught in public schools right now, says we evolved from monkeys into humans. This is what I meant.

[–]dontlistentodre 2ポイント3ポイント  (10子コメント)

I'm pretty sure that evolution being taught states that monkeys share a common ancestor with humans, not that we evolved from monkeys..

To clear things up for you: http://friendsofdarwin.com/misc/faq/why-still-monkeys/

It is entirely possible that the people teaching evolution don't understand evolution properly themselves, I suppose, but there is no nefarious plot to brainwash people into becoming godless creatures that will obey the next best ''higher power''.

[–]HaltNWO 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's exactly right.

[–]upboatbot2 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Idk man. I used to think like this. But any questioning that we evolved from an ape seems to get ridiculed unfairly. To bring up th he fact that apes do not have consciousness and we do might get you called a loon. To me it seems much more likely ape to human evolution was aided. By psychedelic mushrooms. Or by a comet introducing new material/environment. Genetic engineering by aliens maybe. But it seems evolution has killed the quest for this source of the claimed evolution. I can buy certain mutations, but the jump to consciousness needs some seriousinvestigation.

[–]dontlistentodre 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

But we don't ''come from an ape'', we share a common ancestor but humans occupy a whole new branch on the tree of life. At least, according to evolution theory. I get that you feel like consciousness is a special thing, and I like to think the same way (I'm a special human being, unique, no-one like me will ever be born again). However, looking at the grand scheme of things, how many people have died before I was born? They all probably thought the same thing. I think consciousness is a purely coincidental side-effect of the neural networks that have formed over generations of organisms. Bacteria started by sending signal molecules to each other (quorum sensing for example), and this eventually grows out into neural networks capable of nearly instantaneous messaging between cells. This firing of neurons, to ''guide'' it in a useful way, has given us ''consciousness'' to navigate our mind's world with. This is what I believe, in a nutshell.

To my understanding, a lot of research is being done into consciousness, so we are working on it. The ''stoned ape'' theory is a very fun one, but I think that theory is too random for my liking. It basically states consciousness is a random thing that happened by chance (the mushrooms have to be eaten by a semi-intellectual organism). I believe that evolution is convergent, and that eventually consciousness will arise in a complex evolutionary system.

Here is an interesting read for you: http://news.vanderbilt.edu/2015/03/213466/#.VYDbmqvdNOY.reddit

[–]WideAwakeNWO -5ポイント-4ポイント  (6子コメント)

there is no nefarious plot to brainwash people into becoming godless creatures that will obey the next best ''higher power''.

So why isn't intelligent design, or creation being taught as other possibilities, instead of the big bang being taught as scientific fact?

[–]dontlistentodre 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

Because there is no scientific data to support the claims of creation or intelligent design. The big bang is a theoretic framework that is currently used in astrophysics, as we have no other explanation for the expansion of space that is being observed. By the way, it is not taught as a fact, the name already implies it is a theory: ''The big bang theory''. The thing that scientists try to do (but sometimes in their humanity forget), is to always question the hypotheses they confirm with their experiments. Nothing is ever absolutely true, you can only ever reach an estimated probability of ''truth''.

[–]WideAwakeNWO -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

If there wasn't a vast conspiracy to teaching kids to not believe in God, or heaven, then why don't they teach intelligent design along with the big bang theory as possible ways the universe was created?

Why even close that door in the minds of kids, that there may well be a higher power or intelligent designer who made the universe?

I'm not saying to only teach intelligent design, because I admit, this to is also just a "conspiracy theory" if you will, and can't be backed by science, but neither can the big bang THEORY. They both are just theories, but one, even though uses the word theory in it, is the only one taught in public schools, so therefore accepted as scientific fact. If your only taught about a single "theory", and not teach that there is even another theory out there, this might as well be that you are teaching it as fact.

I wasn't taught in public school (I went to both private Christian school, and public school) about any possibility of intelligent design, but in private school, I was taught both creationism and the theory of the big bang, and allowed to make up my own mind which one was the one I think is most probable. There certainly was a noticeable slant towards creation, but they at least taught both to us in private school.

Why not open they door in the minds of kids, and present both theories as possible explanations, and let them decide for themselves which one they want to believe?

[–]dontlistentodre 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm Dutch, and I think you're American, so our school systems and societies are very different in the first place. I was taught about christianity, buddhism, islam and other religions. In these classes, each world view of the different religions was taught.

We also had physics classes, where we were taught how to convert real world observations into language (equations that we can share with eachother). In physics classes, we were taught about the current model that we have, the big bang theory, and how flawed it is.

The way I see it, both theories are presented in equal ways. The fact that most people choose to believe one over the other could be due to the ''rigged system'' (the brainwashing you mentioned), or it could be that one theory really seems more plausible to most people.

[–]WideAwakeNWO -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

The way I see it, both theories are presented in equal ways. The fact that most people choose to believe one over the other could be due to the ''rigged system'' (the brainwashing you mentioned), or it could be that one theory really seems more plausible to most people.

I can understand how you see it if you were at least taught both ways. Please believe me though, this is not how it is in America. It's very easy for anyone to believe one theory, if that's the only theory presented. And in the majority of school systems, that's how it is.

That door is completely closed here, kids aren't even given that choice like they are where you live.

That's all I'm advocating, teach both sides of the coin, and let the individual pick which one works best for them. Don't close that door in their mind, that is the definition of brainwashing actually.

any method of controlled systematic indoctrination, especially one based on repetition or confusion:

[–]dontlistentodre 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think there is a very big distinction between the intelligent design theory and the big bang theory, however. The big bang theory is based on giving us an answer on where we are in space, and how it was formed. We can measure (and this is important) that space is expanding around us (see wiki), and we try to give an explanation as to how this can happen in relation to the experiences we have as humans. When it comes to intelligent design, we try to answer the question why space is expanding around us, but the reason that is given (a higher power that has designed everything) has no basis in our observations as humans (there is no factual observation, nothing to measure). In my opinion, both of these theories are talking about very different things. After all, I could still accept the fact that the big bang theory might have been intelligently designed, do you not agree? (The big bang theory tries to explain why the ball falls, the intelligent design theory tries to explain who the ball threw, metaphors with balls always work right?)

[–]dontlistentodre 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Also, not trying to insult you personally because you are obviously religious, what if the other theories are just not worth teaching? I'm sure there is a minority of people who want their children to be taught about the flat earth society, would you want your children exposed to those theories when they are young and impressionable?

To my knowledge, there is still a very high percentage of religious people living in the US, despite there being no education about intelligent design in the schools. There is a very high probability that people will be taught about religion by their friends and families, and then we have this free flowing knowledge source called the internet, which allows people to find out anything about any kind of worldviews one may have. Do schools really need to have more influence on this by teaching religion?

[–]CatWeekends 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

Evolution being taught in public schools right now, says we evolved from monkeys to humans

No, it absolutely does not say that. We share a common ancestor with apes and monkeys, we did not evolve FROM them.

Also, the theories of evolution, the origin of the universe, and the origin of life are all separate. One does not claim things about the other (ie - the Big Bang theory makes no predictions for the origin of life).

[–]WideAwakeNWO 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Big Bang theory makes no predictions for the origin of life).

The Big Bang Theory absolutely does suggest that the universe and everything in it was created by a big bang. It suggests that everything in the universe is basically the result of an accident. If you believe in the big bang theory, and do not think that humans were the result of this, I'd be very interested to know how you think we came about.

[–]CatWeekends 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

A universe is required for humans to live in and humans are a result of the formation of the universe, yes.

However, the Big Bang theory does not mean that life has to exist. Our universe could have gone on happily creating and destroying stars for trillions of years without ever having created a single cell.

At the same time, the current theories of evolution and abiogenesis make absolutely zero predictions or claims to the origin of the universe because they are separate (required, sure, but separate concepts).

[–]WideAwakeNWO -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Big Bang theory does not mean that life has to exist. Our universe could have gone on happily creating and destroying stars for trillions of years without ever having created a single cell.

But it didn't. The big bang theory is the source of all things in the universe to those who believe in it, even though it's a theory, actually probably the biggest "conspiracy theory" the world has ever seen, but yet it's taught as fact in public schools.

If there wasn't a vast conspiracy to teaching kids to not believe in God, or heaven, then why don't they teach intelligent design along with the big bang theory as possible ways the universe was created?

Why even close that door in the minds of kids, that there may well be a higher power or intelligent designer who made the universe?

I'm not saying to only teach intelligent design, because I admit, this to is also just a "conspiracy theory" if you will, and can't be backed by science, but neither can the big bang THEORY. They both are just theories, but one, even though uses the word theory in it, is taught to children as scientific fact.

Why not open they door in the minds of kids, and present both theories as possible explanations, and let them decide for themselves which one they want to believe?

[–]CatWeekends 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

yet it's taught as fact in public schools.

Science shouldn't be taught as fact, it should be taught as "the best way we understand the workings of the universe... *Right now. Subject to change as new data and information comes in." If your science classes failed to mention that to you, then that is a pretty massive failing of the system.

why don't they teach intelligent design along with the big bang theory as possible ways the universe was created?

Because intelligent design doesn't count as a scientific theory, it is merely a hypothesis.

There is a big, big difference between what science calls "theory" and what your layperson would. Scientific theories have been rigorously tested and make predictions (gravity is only a theory, too). Intelligent design is not testable and does not make predictions - it's not science.

Why even close that door in the minds of kids, that there may well be a higher power or intelligent designer who made the universe?

No one is trying to do that. It would be an amazing thing if someone came up with some way to test and predict Intelligent Design. But that's more or less impossible, so it's not science, and should not be taught in science classes any more than any of the other thousands of creation stories.

let them decide for themselves

Because you don't science by just having people go with what their heart tells them. You science by rigorous testing and observation.

Come up with a way to test and observe ID - a way to make it science - and you'll win a Nobel.

[–]dontlistentodre 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think this guy wants to learn, scroll up and you'll see pretty much the same discussion that I'm having with him. I think that this is the main problem of the general public though, not having an understanding of what a scientific theory actually is, and that they have just as much basis in the real world as theistic ideals.

[–]Terex80 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

And god holds up to science?

[–]WideAwakeNWO -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

Did I say anything about God? I just said Cross-species evolution doesn't hold up to science. Neither does creation, I admit that, but creation isn't being taught in public schools now, is it?

[–]Terex80 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I thought creation was taught in some southern states.

I was taught evolution, definition of a species (as I was taught) was: They cannot reproduce and produce fertile offspring if it is between two different species

[–]WideAwakeNWO -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

I thought creation was taught in some southern states.

You're actually 100% right about this. I was kind of surprised myself at how many states teach about creationism or intelligent design.

Here's a map I found which shows the places in the country where creationism is taught along with the big bang theory. This is encouraging, and should be the model across the nation.

http://io9.com/a-map-showing-which-u-s-public-schools-teach-creationi-1515717148

[–]Terex80 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Creationism does not belong in a science lesson. It belongs in religious studies classes

There is no evidence other than a book of stories

[–]noworthyicon -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

one that holds 0 weight when tested scientifically.

You speak of heaven and hell yet question the science behind evolution? What scientific evidence is there that proves the existance of heaven, hell or god?