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The only Confederate flag that mattered... (i.imgur.com)

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[–]respawn_in_5_4_3_2_1 0ポイント1ポイント  (18子コメント)

All I'm saying is if you get invaded and occupied... that's a loss.

[–]BreaksFull 0ポイント1ポイント  (17子コメント)

So did Russia lose because Germany occupied them temporarily?

[–]respawn_in_5_4_3_2_1 0ポイント1ポイント  (16子コメント)

Germany couldn't completely occupy russia. Mother nature saved them. Don't invade Russia in the winter... just dont.

[–]BreaksFull -1ポイント0ポイント  (15子コメント)

Germany didn't completely occupy France either. And while the Russian winter certainly put an end to their 1941 advances, the Russians themselves were what kicked the Germans out. By 1943 they had learners their lessons and rebuilt their army. It's also worth noting that Germany invaded in June, not the winter.

[–]respawn_in_5_4_3_2_1 0ポイント1ポイント  (14子コメント)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_France

Yeah France lost. In numbers and in actual history. And yes the Russians did push the Germans out with men but the weather even by both russian and German account was a huge factor in the German withdrawl. And yes they did not start an invasion in the winter. And initially were extrodinary successful in there invasion Untill winter.

[–]BreaksFull 0ポイント1ポイント  (13子コメント)

That has nothing to do with my point of France's fighting in the First World War, and it doesn't really reflect on France's fighting ability overall. Germany steamrolled everyone, nobody was prepared for Blitzkrieg.

And yes the Russians did push the Germans out with men but the weather even by both russian and German account was a huge factor in the German withdrawl.

It was a significant factor in their advance on Moscow, but the Russians didn't beat them in the winter, they beat them in the summer. Kursk was the defining battle of the Eastern Front and Russia won a decisive victory without any help from General Winter.

And initially were extrodinary successful in there invasion Untill winter.

Anyone would've been extraordinarily successful, Russia's army had recently been purged of most it's most experienced officers and NCO's and much of it's equipment was poorly outdated.

[–]respawn_in_5_4_3_2_1 0ポイント1ポイント  (12子コメント)

So basicly you are playing devils advocate and giving validity to my points but looking at them from a different perspective. Yes France killed a lot of Germans ( Germans killed 3 to 4 times the amount ) yes russia beat back Germany ( the winter had a profound effect on the advancing German army )

[–]BreaksFull 0ポイント1ポイント  (11子コメント)

No, I'm absolutely objecting to your claim that French resistance in WWI wasn't 'worth a hill of beans.' It's blatantly wrong and disrespectful to the enormous suffering France endured. Both battles of the Marne were significant allied victories and almost predominantly lead by French commanders and fought by French soldiers. The Battle of Verdun was an absolute bloodpath and the unbelievable tenacity and viciousness with which France fought is more than just a 'semblance' of resistance.

And I don't know where you're getting your casualty numbers from, where are you getting them from? The Germans killed 3-4 times more German soldiers?

I also strongly object to this,

All I'm saying is if you get invaded and occupied... that's a loss.

No. The side that loses suffers a loss. Russia took more casualties, was invaded and occupied for several years, but they're the ones that sacked Berlin in the end. That's not a loss.

[–]respawn_in_5_4_3_2_1 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Both Verdun and Marne were ww1 which I already have said that the French did very well in.

[–]BreaksFull -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

And I recall you saying this about French resistance during the First World War.

[–]respawn_in_5_4_3_2_1 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

The German army took very few casualties taking France in ww2 and sustained almost all of their casualties after the invasion of d day and the battling the red army in russia. So no the French army was absolutly decimated in ww2

[–]BreaksFull -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

Which has nothing to do with their WWI performance you disdained. Not to mention that the French Army in WWII was hardly decimated. The casualties weren't so one-sided, and the Germans did suffer over 160,000 casualties to the French 360,000. France -like almost everyone else- just wasn't prepared for this new kind of warfare and in the end didn't want to destroy Paris in further fighting.