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Anti-MRMWe just hit zero. (self.MensRights)

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[–]tygertiger 2ポイント3ポイント  (30子コメント)

It doesn't matter if you think we shouldn't associate TRP with the MRM. To everyone else outside of the MRM, they are all part of the manosphere. Ignoring this doesn't do us any favours.

[–]xynomaster 12ポイント13ポイント  (29子コメント)

But working to correct that misconception might.

[–]ocasionallymisspeld 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Like it or not, avfm, the most recognizeable site associated with mrm / mhrm uses the red pill as part of its imagery.

[–]Ben--Affleck 2ポイント3ポイント  (23子コメント)

I don't see how you can be okay with another group being unfairly slandered. Remember... the MRM shouldn't be defending the MRM more than it defends the rights of men (and women). TRPs are people too.

Don't become feminism.

[–]xynomaster 8ポイント9ポイント  (8子コメント)

I see no positive side to being associated with the red pill.

[–]Ben--Affleck 5ポイント6ポイント  (7子コメント)

Well that's unfortunate, because, no matter what, there's a clear association, namely opposition to radical feminism and acceptance of sexual dimorphism.

[–]xynomaster 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

and acceptance of sexual dimorphism.

Well I suppose it's because I disagree with this point then. In my experience sexual dimorphism is generally used mostly as justification for discriminating against men.

[–]perplexedm -5ポイント-4ポイント  (4子コメント)

In my experience sexual dimorphism is generally used mostly as justification for discriminating against men.

Why not stop denying it, abuse it, start to optimally utilize it ?

[–]xynomaster 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Because I don't believe there's any way to achieve equality for men while just giving in to that belief.

It will always be used to argue that female pedophiles shouldn't go to jail, men should be the only ones drafted for war, etc.

[–]perplexedm -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I used the word 'optimally utilize' not 'optionally abuse'.

And how bad people are going to behave should not be a reason for truth to be kept hidden.

[–]xynomaster 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't necessarily believe it's the truth. At least, not to such a great extent as people make it out to be.

Either way, it's better for everyone if we try to shape society as if it weren't true and see how far we can get before some fundamental difference in the genders stops us. Otherwise, how can we know how much is truly fundamental and how much is just socialized?

[–]bobbage -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

You know who else was opposed to feminism and strongly advocated for distinct gender roles? The Nazis. Should we group ourselves with them too? Group TRP with the Nazis all you like but keep the MRM out of it, thanks.

Mens Rights is about equality, which the likes of TRP absolutely doesn't care about or for at all. They are completely different things.

Historians have paid special attention to the efforts by Nazi Germany to reverse the gains women made before 1933, especially in the liberal Weimar Republic. It appears the role of women in Nazi Germany changed according to circumstances. Theoretically, the Nazis believed that women must be subservient to men, avoid careers, devote themselves to childbearing and child-rearing, and be a helpmate of the traditional dominant father in the traditional family.

Laws that had protected women's rights were repealed and new laws were introduced to restrict women to the home and in their roles as wives and mothers. Women were barred from government and university positions. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism_in_Germany#Nazi_era

[–]chocoboat 1ポイント2ポイント  (13子コメント)

TRP is a "how to get laid" advice forum filled with misogyny, where many members believe the goals of the MRM (like gender equality) are a bad idea.

Nazis and KKK members are also men too, but excuse me if I don't want to leap to their defense either.

Associating the MRM with any of these groups makes no sense.

[–]perplexedm -4ポイント-3ポイント  (7子コメント)

TRP is a "how to get laid" advice forum filled with misogyny, where many members believe the goals of the MRM (like gender equality) are a bad idea.

You totally misunderstood trp. TRP is about self improvement for men, in a world women came a lot forward and men are in backward state of mind.

They are re-improving men and making them the prize to be won for women. That is the right way to be manly. To game plates is a side effect, but that is not at all the ultimate objective.

[–]chocoboat 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

Yeah there's some self improvement stuff too, I was just summarizing it. Besides, often the self improvement advice is along the lines of "and once you've made yourself a better person, you can get laid more often!" like that's the end goal for any plan.

that is not at all the ultimate objective

It sure seems to be, whenever I look in there. Make yourself more interesting - in order to raise your value to women you want to have sex with. Take charge of the relationship - in order to impress women who will then want to have sex with you.

Not that there's anything inherently wrong with that. If guys want to share advice on how to get laid as often as possible, that's fine. The problem is the laughable levels of misogyny in there.

A woman wants to ride the "cock carousel", that means she is of low value and shouldn't be respected. Now let me teach you how to ride the vagina carousel!

Girlfriend wants to get a short haircut? It's a shit test! She wants to make herself look manly just to screw with you!

Remember, women can't think clearly, so here's how to play mindgames to fool them into thinking you're more "alpha" than you really are!

Gender equality? Nah, fuck that. We shouldn't let women apply to physically demanding jobs, we should judge people based on their genitals rather than who's capable of doing the job.

And so on. The fact that a handful of decent life advice is mixed in with the 60 year old mindset about gender roles doesn't make the sub a worthwhile place.

[–]perplexedm -2ポイント-1ポイント  (5子コメント)

okay, that is what you understood about trp, but let me tell you, you have to learn more. Nothing further.

If your so called feminists and womyn were so good, this MRA sub or such activism was not needed. Damn even gays don't want MRAs around.

Feminists misrepresents MRAs the same way you misrepresent TRP.

If you look at things one at a time, you might not realize that a branch of separate "trees" go togehter to make a "forest".

You can learn good things from TRP and ignore the rest, the same way you do with mensrights.

Though objective of MRA and trp is different, but there is no need for MRAs to stymie trp the way feminists do.

[–]chocoboat 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

If your so called feminists and womyn were so good, this MRA sub or such activism was not needed.

What are you talking about?

Damn even gays don't want MRAs around.

Gay men don't care about men's rights and gender equality? You've got to be kidding me. They have only a fraction of the public acceptance that lesbians have. They know better than anyone that men who don't "act like men" and show a feminine side are shamed, while women who display masculine traits are accepted or even cheered on. And they run a higher risk of being a male victim of rape, aka the type of rape that no one gives a shit about.

Feminists misrepresents MRAs the same way you misrepresent TRP.

Hardly. Feminists invent these complete strawmen, as if MRAs are 1950s misogynists who want women in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant, subservient to men. They claim that MRAs don't care about rape and think that men are owed sex from women, and all kinds of blatantly untrue nonsense.

Now tell me one thing I've said about TRP that is untrue. All of those things I said have appeared in TRP repeatedly and were popular, upvoted opinions.

We may disagree about the goals for the advice, whether it's to truly make yourself better or whether it's only about making yourself more likely to get laid, but that's about it.

You can learn good things from TRP and ignore the rest, the same way you do with mensrights.

You can learn the good things about the Westboro Baptist Church (they know how to get publicity for their cause) and ignore the rest too. Doesn't mean WBC's ideas are worth hearing.

Though objective of MRA and trp is different, but there is no need for MRAs to stymie trp the way feminists do.

Regardless of how you feel about TRP, I think my point still stands that TRP and the MRM are completely different movements with different goals, and that it isn't helpful to anyone when people conflate the two.

That's why I think it's a bad idea to act like the OP and say "the MRM is under attack" when someone bashes TRP.

[–]perplexedm -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

What are you talking about?

You got it right.

Gay men don't care about men's rights and gender equality? You've got to be kidding me.

http://np.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3ajjfu/cafe_was_banned_from_joining_the_toronto_pride/

Keep on bitching and moaning. But, I don't find any need for MRAs to be rainbow-knights for gay men. MRAs are even not in a position to take care of themselves, as of now.

Hardly. Feminists invent these complete strawmen, as if MRAs are 1950s misogynists...

This is the same thing you are doing against TRP

You can learn the good things about the Westboro Baptist Church (they know how to get publicity for their cause) and ignore the rest too. Doesn't mean WBC's ideas are worth hearing.

Good ideas are worth hearing, even if it is from WBC. Ignore and fight their bad shit. Same with feminists. Or with TRP.

Regardless of how you feel about TRP,

Response to you is there directly in the 'Goals' section of TRP sub. You can find it here:

http://np.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2131ox/goals_a_quick_guide_on_how_to_attain_them/

Read the first comment to that post and you get your required answers. You can also find hundreds of posts highlighting similar ideas in hundreds of posts there. Unlike many ideas, TRP promotes marriage and long term relationships which should be stable. That is also one of their primary goals. As for getting laid, girls also have their own personal interests, which am afraid may not match with the like of yours.

And learn more about trp without yellow glasses of prejudice. Or keep on posting on internet threads, with zero or negative results to your ideals.

[–]chocoboat 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is the same thing you are doing against TRP

How so?

Good ideas are worth hearing, even if it is from WBC.

I disagree. There's no need to listen to all their hate speech to pick out the one or two sensible ideas (which are usually discussed in other less toxic places as well).

Response to you is there directly in the 'Goals' section of TRP sub. You can find it here:

Yes, there's a sidebar post about achieving your goals. But if you read the content of the subreddit, the goal for the majority of people in there is to get laid more often and by the women that you want to be with. How to have "game" and cause "tingles" and keep those plates spinning, and how this is done through exhibiting alpha behavior.

Mix in a little blue-pill mockery, a few AWALT posts, and a few "omg TRP changed my life! upvotes pls" and you've got 90% of the subreddit right there. It is simply a fact that a huge portion of the discussions is about how to achieve the kind of sex life and the kind of relationship that you want to have.

And like I said, there's nothing wrong about discussing those topics. But it's confusing and pointless to treat the MRM and TRP like they're the same, or have the MRM defend TRP from attacks.

If a anti-abortion conservative women's group gets bashed, do feminists have to stand up and defend them? After all, they're all women! (Well, no they don't, because sharing the same gender is not what matters, it's about whether you share the same ideas and goals.)

[–]tygertiger -4ポイント-3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Define misogyny as it relates to TRP.

[–]chocoboat 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

They treat women as if they're incapable of logic, and teach that you should play mindgames with them instead.

They reject gender equality and believe that women should be banned from doing certain things, like attempting to become a firefighter.

They teach men to try to control women's lives. Girlfriend wants to get a short haircut? This is all about YOU! It's a shit test! She wants to screw with you by making you the guy who's dating a girl who looks like a man, you better pressure her into not doing it!

[–]MaestroLogical 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you have to have it pointed out to you, you don't want to see it obviously. Either due to your own personal bias or some agenda. TRP is the darkside of the manosphere, trying to pretend it isn't is facetious as hell.

[–]AndaliteBandit 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

AWALT.

There you go. Just as ridiculous as every single time a woman has said all men are the same.

[–]tygertiger 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

It's too late for that.

[–]xNOM 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

They ARE part of the manosphere, whether you like it or not.

[–]tygertiger 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I absolutely agree with you. A lot of MRAs want to ignore that fact and throw their brothers in the TRP under the bus.

[–]headless_bourgeoisie 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think you guys need help with that.