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Anti-MRMWe just hit zero. (self.MensRights)

andejoh が 投稿

Feminists have linked the Charleston shooter to the MRM.

"The latest little Fuhrer may have chosen the symbols of apartheid South Africa, but it would have made no difference if he had instead donned the Confederate Stars and Bars or the Nazi swastika or the Red Pill logo."

http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/charleston-shooter-history-true-believers-mrzs/

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[–]xynomaster 19ポイント20ポイント  (34子コメント)

I don't think we should associate red pill with the MRM. They're not the same thing and shouldn't be considered the same thing.

[–]tygertiger 2ポイント3ポイント  (30子コメント)

It doesn't matter if you think we shouldn't associate TRP with the MRM. To everyone else outside of the MRM, they are all part of the manosphere. Ignoring this doesn't do us any favours.

[–]xynomaster 12ポイント13ポイント  (29子コメント)

But working to correct that misconception might.

[–]ocasionallymisspeld 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Like it or not, avfm, the most recognizeable site associated with mrm / mhrm uses the red pill as part of its imagery.

[–]Ben--Affleck 2ポイント3ポイント  (23子コメント)

I don't see how you can be okay with another group being unfairly slandered. Remember... the MRM shouldn't be defending the MRM more than it defends the rights of men (and women). TRPs are people too.

Don't become feminism.

[–]xynomaster 7ポイント8ポイント  (8子コメント)

I see no positive side to being associated with the red pill.

[–]Ben--Affleck 5ポイント6ポイント  (7子コメント)

Well that's unfortunate, because, no matter what, there's a clear association, namely opposition to radical feminism and acceptance of sexual dimorphism.

[–]xynomaster 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

and acceptance of sexual dimorphism.

Well I suppose it's because I disagree with this point then. In my experience sexual dimorphism is generally used mostly as justification for discriminating against men.

[–]perplexedm -5ポイント-4ポイント  (4子コメント)

In my experience sexual dimorphism is generally used mostly as justification for discriminating against men.

Why not stop denying it, abuse it, start to optimally utilize it ?

[–]xynomaster 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Because I don't believe there's any way to achieve equality for men while just giving in to that belief.

It will always be used to argue that female pedophiles shouldn't go to jail, men should be the only ones drafted for war, etc.

[–]perplexedm -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I used the word 'optimally utilize' not 'optionally abuse'.

And how bad people are going to behave should not be a reason for truth to be kept hidden.

[–]bobbage -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

You know who else was opposed to feminism and strongly advocated for distinct gender roles? The Nazis. Should we group ourselves with them too? Group TRP with the Nazis all you like but keep the MRM out of it, thanks.

Mens Rights is about equality, which the likes of TRP absolutely doesn't care about or for at all. They are completely different things.

Historians have paid special attention to the efforts by Nazi Germany to reverse the gains women made before 1933, especially in the liberal Weimar Republic. It appears the role of women in Nazi Germany changed according to circumstances. Theoretically, the Nazis believed that women must be subservient to men, avoid careers, devote themselves to childbearing and child-rearing, and be a helpmate of the traditional dominant father in the traditional family.

Laws that had protected women's rights were repealed and new laws were introduced to restrict women to the home and in their roles as wives and mothers. Women were barred from government and university positions. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism_in_Germany#Nazi_era

[–]chocoboat 1ポイント2ポイント  (13子コメント)

TRP is a "how to get laid" advice forum filled with misogyny, where many members believe the goals of the MRM (like gender equality) are a bad idea.

Nazis and KKK members are also men too, but excuse me if I don't want to leap to their defense either.

Associating the MRM with any of these groups makes no sense.

[–]perplexedm -4ポイント-3ポイント  (7子コメント)

TRP is a "how to get laid" advice forum filled with misogyny, where many members believe the goals of the MRM (like gender equality) are a bad idea.

You totally misunderstood trp. TRP is about self improvement for men, in a world women came a lot forward and men are in backward state of mind.

They are re-improving men and making them the prize to be won for women. That is the right way to be manly. To game plates is a side effect, but that is not at all the ultimate objective.

[–]chocoboat 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

Yeah there's some self improvement stuff too, I was just summarizing it. Besides, often the self improvement advice is along the lines of "and once you've made yourself a better person, you can get laid more often!" like that's the end goal for any plan.

that is not at all the ultimate objective

It sure seems to be, whenever I look in there. Make yourself more interesting - in order to raise your value to women you want to have sex with. Take charge of the relationship - in order to impress women who will then want to have sex with you.

Not that there's anything inherently wrong with that. If guys want to share advice on how to get laid as often as possible, that's fine. The problem is the laughable levels of misogyny in there.

A woman wants to ride the "cock carousel", that means she is of low value and shouldn't be respected. Now let me teach you how to ride the vagina carousel!

Girlfriend wants to get a short haircut? It's a shit test! She wants to make herself look manly just to screw with you!

Remember, women can't think clearly, so here's how to play mindgames to fool them into thinking you're more "alpha" than you really are!

Gender equality? Nah, fuck that. We shouldn't let women apply to physically demanding jobs, we should judge people based on their genitals rather than who's capable of doing the job.

And so on. The fact that a handful of decent life advice is mixed in with the 60 year old mindset about gender roles doesn't make the sub a worthwhile place.

[–]perplexedm -2ポイント-1ポイント  (5子コメント)

okay, that is what you understood about trp, but let me tell you, you have to learn more. Nothing further.

If your so called feminists and womyn were so good, this MRA sub or such activism was not needed. Damn even gays don't want MRAs around.

Feminists misrepresents MRAs the same way you misrepresent TRP.

If you look at things one at a time, you might not realize that a branch of separate "trees" go togehter to make a "forest".

You can learn good things from TRP and ignore the rest, the same way you do with mensrights.

Though objective of MRA and trp is different, but there is no need for MRAs to stymie trp the way feminists do.

[–]chocoboat 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

If your so called feminists and womyn were so good, this MRA sub or such activism was not needed.

What are you talking about?

Damn even gays don't want MRAs around.

Gay men don't care about men's rights and gender equality? You've got to be kidding me. They have only a fraction of the public acceptance that lesbians have. They know better than anyone that men who don't "act like men" and show a feminine side are shamed, while women who display masculine traits are accepted or even cheered on. And they run a higher risk of being a male victim of rape, aka the type of rape that no one gives a shit about.

Feminists misrepresents MRAs the same way you misrepresent TRP.

Hardly. Feminists invent these complete strawmen, as if MRAs are 1950s misogynists who want women in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant, subservient to men. They claim that MRAs don't care about rape and think that men are owed sex from women, and all kinds of blatantly untrue nonsense.

Now tell me one thing I've said about TRP that is untrue. All of those things I said have appeared in TRP repeatedly and were popular, upvoted opinions.

We may disagree about the goals for the advice, whether it's to truly make yourself better or whether it's only about making yourself more likely to get laid, but that's about it.

You can learn good things from TRP and ignore the rest, the same way you do with mensrights.

You can learn the good things about the Westboro Baptist Church (they know how to get publicity for their cause) and ignore the rest too. Doesn't mean WBC's ideas are worth hearing.

Though objective of MRA and trp is different, but there is no need for MRAs to stymie trp the way feminists do.

Regardless of how you feel about TRP, I think my point still stands that TRP and the MRM are completely different movements with different goals, and that it isn't helpful to anyone when people conflate the two.

That's why I think it's a bad idea to act like the OP and say "the MRM is under attack" when someone bashes TRP.

[–]perplexedm -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

What are you talking about?

You got it right.

Gay men don't care about men's rights and gender equality? You've got to be kidding me.

http://np.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3ajjfu/cafe_was_banned_from_joining_the_toronto_pride/

Keep on bitching and moaning. But, I don't find any need for MRAs to be rainbow-knights for gay men. MRAs are even not in a position to take care of themselves, as of now.

Hardly. Feminists invent these complete strawmen, as if MRAs are 1950s misogynists...

This is the same thing you are doing against TRP

You can learn the good things about the Westboro Baptist Church (they know how to get publicity for their cause) and ignore the rest too. Doesn't mean WBC's ideas are worth hearing.

Good ideas are worth hearing, even if it is from WBC. Ignore and fight their bad shit. Same with feminists. Or with TRP.

Regardless of how you feel about TRP,

Response to you is there directly in the 'Goals' section of TRP sub. You can find it here:

http://np.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2131ox/goals_a_quick_guide_on_how_to_attain_them/

Read the first comment to that post and you get your required answers. You can also find hundreds of posts highlighting similar ideas in hundreds of posts there. Unlike many ideas, TRP promotes marriage and long term relationships which should be stable. That is also one of their primary goals. As for getting laid, girls also have their own personal interests, which am afraid may not match with the like of yours.

And learn more about trp without yellow glasses of prejudice. Or keep on posting on internet threads, with zero or negative results to your ideals.

[–]tygertiger -4ポイント-3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Define misogyny as it relates to TRP.

[–]chocoboat 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

They treat women as if they're incapable of logic, and teach that you should play mindgames with them instead.

They reject gender equality and believe that women should be banned from doing certain things, like attempting to become a firefighter.

They teach men to try to control women's lives. Girlfriend wants to get a short haircut? This is all about YOU! It's a shit test! She wants to screw with you by making you the guy who's dating a girl who looks like a man, you better pressure her into not doing it!

[–]MaestroLogical 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you have to have it pointed out to you, you don't want to see it obviously. Either due to your own personal bias or some agenda. TRP is the darkside of the manosphere, trying to pretend it isn't is facetious as hell.

[–]AndaliteBandit 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

AWALT.

There you go. Just as ridiculous as every single time a woman has said all men are the same.

[–]tygertiger 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

It's too late for that.

[–]xNOM 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

They ARE part of the manosphere, whether you like it or not.

[–]tygertiger 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I absolutely agree with you. A lot of MRAs want to ignore that fact and throw their brothers in the TRP under the bus.

[–]headless_bourgeoisie 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think you guys need help with that.

[–]headless_bourgeoisie -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Considering that Karen S. recently came out in support of Red Pill, I'd say we lost that battle.

[–]BreakRaven 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

There was no battle in the first place.

[–]andejoh[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't spend much time on TRP. I've probably spent about 10 minutes total on the site prior to today (now it's doubled) and now I remember why I don't really go there.

Here is the thing. They're angry. They're angry at women. I suspect that many have been hurt repeatedly by women. I don't know though that they're NOT part of the MRM. I've seen posts calling out misandry in films. I've seen posts such as here talking about women's violence against men.

I consider MGTOWs part of the MRM. Wait, why are they part of the MRM. They don't do "activism". Sure they do, but the activism is passive like passive resistance. I'm going to change society by not being a good, disposable, cog. Sure, they tend to not associate with women, but that's because they want to live life on their terms. Very few relationships have both people perfectly in sync or will survive as one way streets. That doesn't make them any more misogynists than a woman who looks for a female gynecologist is a misandrist.

TRP seems on the intersection of MRA / PUA. So are you suggesting that they are mutually exclusive? True MRAs can't be PUAs and true PUAs can't be MRAs.

[–]happy_helmet_head 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Perhaps if there were actually some social services to help these disturbed individuals then this would be less likely to occur?

[–]DavidByron2 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well what he actually said was that he was concerned about rape, which makes him a feminist as far as public perception of ideologies go, doesn't it? That's why feminists have been running around doing damage control trying to tell people he didn't mean what he said (while insulting Fox news for trying the exact same thing over his saying he was racially motivated).

[–]andejoh[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fox news actually had a better position than the feminists if you read what was on Slate. It seems that he targeted a church in part because he didn't think they'd fight back.

The thing with feminists pushing back on the rape thing. I wouldn't call Roof a feminist, but you act like you have a guilty conscience, you probably did something wrong. Feminists created this rape hysteria culture where an accusation of rape = guilt, #yesallmenareguilty, and it's OK to punish the accused by any means necessary.

Feminists also exploit accusations and sensationalism of rape to get people on board with their agenda. You almost think feminists are going to file a trade mark infringement suit against white supremacists.

[–]MagicGainbow 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

A whole subset of the manosphere deals with black issues, in fact same issues black men faced in the past we see white men facing now.

[–]tedcase 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

TRP has a logo?

[–]apullin 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

OK, he might have read and believed in the ethos from men's rights movements.

Nothing in the MRM space encourages violence or murder. There is constant celebration of life, and a focus on people meeting their due rights to life and liberty, often shown through stories where they are taken away. Heck, I even see MRM folks actively practicing anti-racism in the form of bringing visibility to race-related issues, what is sometimes called "intersectionality".

He might have believed in the truth of quantum theory; would that mean that studying physics would be implicated in encouraging him to murder people?

(I am not that familiar with The Red Pill, and I don't know if they have become regressive or anything like that)

[–]RedPill115 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's kinda a weird article, because he also accurately describes feminism right here in his description of the terrorist guy:

He was the quintessential “true believer,” as defined by the philosopher Eric Hoffer in his classic sociological monograph of the same name. In his book, Hoffer notes that men and women who become extremists often have certain similar personality traits. They tend to view themselves as victims of some form of oppression, believe that they lack power within the existing social/cultural/political structure with which to improve their lives, and are thus likely to be converted to ideologies that offer simple solutions to the daunting problems which they face. This ideology can be rooted in economics, racial theory, or warped notions of individualism; it can take the form of religious, gender-based, or national chauvinism. The content matters far less than the personality type that is drawn to it—desiring attention, utterly irrational, filled with hate, and willing to sacrifice its own life so long as it can take innocents with it. Like most white supremacists, the Charleston terrorist found comfort in the notion that his shortcomings were somehow the fault of a scapegoat (in this case, African Americans) rather than his own character.

[–]andejoh[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I thought that could apply to feminists too. That's the reason why I object to the inclusion of TRP among the white supremacist groups. It seems like a dishonest attempt to associate a group he doesn't like with racism.

[–]Claude_Reborn 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's the fucking gmp. It's run my angry, man hating radfems.