上位 200 件のコメント表示する 500

[–]Alabaster_Sugarfoot 1747ポイント1748ポイント  (461子コメント)

I don't get it. Why is it that every time I read about a sexual assault happening on a school campus, it's taken into the hands of students and teachers? And why does every time it happens, shit completely hits the fans? Why aren't the police ever involved?

[–]undocumentedfeatures 591ポイント592ポイント  (129子コメント)

Under Title IX, universities are required to take the law into their own hands, and required to use a 'majority of evidence' rather than 'lack of reasonable doubt' standard of evidence. It's stupid, but don't blame the universities; it's the Dept. of Education that did this, and they are the only ones who can fix this.

[–]grundlesmoocher 174ポイント175ポイント  (30子コメント)

There's a bit of debate about whether schools are really required to use a preponderance standard, but they're certainly safer using it.

But the fact that schools have Title IX and possibly preponderance-of-the-evidence obligations does not mean schools have to use really shitty procedures overseen by a bunch of morons who have wildly inadequate legal skills.

[–]insultinginsults 16ポイント17ポイント  (5子コメント)

I'm not sure why schools are in the legal business here. If there is a rape, call the cops. Would the schools try to handle a robbery or murder themselves? Mindblowing.

[–]undocumentedfeatures 70ポイント71ポイント  (23子コメント)

Have to? No. But unless there is some form of accountability, such as the Dept. of Education overseeing/accrediting their tribunals, many schools will do the cheapest, easiest, least-likely-to-get-angry-feminists-protesting thing.

[–]Strategic-GamingTV 95ポイント96ポイント  (22子コメント)

heres a wild idea for how to serve proper justice.

let the justice system handle it, and fuck everyones feelings on the matter.

[–]fermion1022 101ポイント102ポイント  (73子コメント)

Can you please further explain how title IX would give schools any authority to make judgments on cases which should be felony trials? This just doesn't make any sense at all.

[–]bearsnchairs 107ポイント108ポイント  (33子コメント)

Title IX deals with discrimination based on gender. Sexual harassment falls under gender discrimination and the schools are required to investigate these claims.

The campus tribunals also use a much lower legal evidence standard, preponderance of evidence, which means that the people sitting on the panels only need to believe that it is 50.0000001% likely that the accused is guilty. This is much lower than beyond a reasonable doubt that the legal system uses.

Nothing stops students from bringing claims to the police, but the lower standards at a university mean that they are more likely to get the outcome they want.

http://counsel.cua.edu/fedlaw/title-ixs.cfm

The quasi legal standards are very easily abused.

[–]grundlesmoocher 98ポイント99ポイント  (31子コメント)

Lawyer here. I have mixed views about the preponderance standard. It's not inherently bad. After all, if you sue Apple on a one billion [dollar] patent claim, that's the standard that applies.

What is much more clearly objectionable is the ridiculously shitty set of procedures schools use, which are implemented by people who have virtually no significant legal skill.

[–]thrillerjesus 72ポイント73ポイント  (5子コメント)

It's not necessarily the preponderance standard that's a problem, it's the preponderance standard being used in conjunction with "evidence" that would never be admissible in any court.

[–]Lord_Varys 28ポイント29ポイント  (1子コメント)

An Obama administration "Dear Colleague" letter in 2011 directed colleges that if they don't do everything in their power to create a "safe environment" for women, they would lose federal funding. They aren't taking any chances.

This from an administration who appointed Loretta Lynch, a known supporter of Civil Forfeiture. No respect for the basic civil right of due process.

[–]aqswdefrgthzjukilo 152ポイント153ポイント  (25子コメント)

Can you please further explain how title IX would give schools any authority to make judgments on felony cases?

They don't, what gave you that idea? They make judgements on whether a particular student should be expelled or not.

[–]Sultank 49ポイント50ポイント  (9子コメント)

They don't, what gave you that idea?

Maybe the first sentence from undocumentedfeatures?

Under Title IX, universities are required to take the law into their own hands

They don't take the law into their own hands. They take students' enrollment into their own hands.

[–]Thelastthowaway 22ポイント23ポイント  (8子コメント)

They don't take the law into their own hands. They take students' enrollment into their own hands.

"Taking the law into their own hands" is a turn of phrase which implies that someone is punishing people because the law has failed to. It implies that the law is being enforced by someone who is not really supposed to be enforcing the law. I.E. the police do not "take the law into their own hands" because their hands are supposed to be holding the law, theoretically. Whereas if I go around shooting people burgling shops, I've taken the law into my own hands.

In this case, schools are "taking the law into their own hands" by hearing that a student has been accused of a crime, reviewing some amount of evidence themselves, and then expelling the student regardless of whether they have been found guilty or innocent in a court of law.

The reason they are "taking the law" into their own hands, as opposed to students' enrollment, is that the core reason for the punishment of expelling the student is a crime they may or may not have committed.

One might argue that if a student is guilty of rape, and is found guilty of rape in a court of law, expelling them would not be necessary because they would be in prison. In the unusual case that a rapist was convicted but not imprisoned, it seems like at that point it would be very cut-and-dried to expel them at that point.

[–]Binko 13ポイント14ポイント  (12子コメント)

They are rendering judgement based on accusations of a crime. They are on extremely shaky ground when they deny the accused their basic constitutional rights, especially if they are a public institution which would make them an arm of the government.

[–]KafkasWonderfulLife 996ポイント997ポイント  (223子コメント)

Because if judicial/evidentiary standards were applied, none of these "cases" would get past word one.

[–]cuteman 76ポイント77ポイント  (12子コメント)

Amateur volunteer bureaucrats adjudicating and deciding what amounts to felonies. Who would have thunk that would be a problem?

Apparently not the department of education that issued the "dear colleague" letter which simultaneously reduced the standards of proof for this specific category of complaints.

[–]Binko 52ポイント53ポイント  (5子コメント)

Apparently large numbers of educators believe that they can create special zones where American law and constitutional protections simply do not apply.

It's mind-numbingly audacious of colleges to think that they can accuses students of felonious acts and then proceed to dole out punishment based on a secretive extra-legal internal process.

Some of this educator legal overreach could be justified at the High School and Elementary level where the students are minors and the school, to some degree, is a stand in for the parents. But once you hit university everybody is an adult and any crimes that are alleged HAVE to be dealt with by the criminal justice system.

[–]wookiee42 282ポイント283ポイント  (95子コメント)

To be fair though, if acquaintances are involved, there are many times when it's going to be he said, she said. No other evidence.

The solution isn't a kangaroo court though, that's for sure.

[–]Bureaucromancer 128ポイント129ポイント  (88子コメント)

The problem is that NOT being a kangaroo court means evidentiary standards, and that means a lot of he said/she said stuff becomes impossible to pursue. And around we go with arguments about the systemic lack of recourse for sexual assault. This seems to be one of those pendulum issues that going to be cyclically going too far either way just about forever.

[–]tyuiop890 86ポイント87ポイント  (8子コメント)

we don't just change evidentiary standards (that have proven reasonable and if I may be so bold, even ideal for the past 100 years) for one special crime, just because some people don't like the fact that a purported victim can leave an electronic record of an invite for someone to come over and fuck them change their mind mid course then admit they had consensual sex on electronic record, then find difficulty bringing charges two years later.

the idea that the judicial system is lacking here because he said she said in sexual assaults is not a slam dunk for the prosecution is insane. there is no problem here. 95% of the cases in the judicial system are he said she said. (or he said he said, or she said she said [that's the guy who bashed me over the head with the tire iron. you're honor, i've never seen this man in my life. I swear to god, contractor smith said the delux range hood was included as part of the kitchen remod. You're honor we've never included that hood for free. on and on and on.)

You know what? we hash it out, in the justice system. that's what it is for. to decide who is telling the truth and mete out justice.

it's only an issue here because they'd like immediate retribution and a guilty unless proven innocent system that is additionally stacked against the defendant to exclude exculpatory evidence apparently. those pushing for a change have the problem, and the problem is with justice. you'd like special rights for your special victims. you'd like special handicaps for special alleged perps. additionally, these two groups are almost always defined by their gender identities - so it appears like a witchhunt against one particular gender, a not so subtle attempt to denude them specifically of their legally rights. it's a little sickening.

[–]Imsickle 35ポイント36ポイント  (5子コメント)

Also, in rape cases, these people want to use he said/she said as the only evidence needed for the victim, yet even if the accused presents solid electronic evidence of a conversation, its often dismissed since if you have evidence that she invited you over, they can say she changed her mind in person and thus withdrew consent; or if you have evidence that she was fine with the interaction afterward, they can say a lot of rape victims act like nothing happened after the event. The system is so clearly biased.

The sad thing is, its hard to find a solution. On one hand, we have innocent people being punished for no reason, on the other hand, if you just think about how nonconsensual sex works on college campuses, there's generally not gonna be a lot of evidence. I keep with the innocent until proven guilty mentality, but I wish there wasn't such a shitty trade-off.

[–]tyuiop890 18ポイント19ポイント  (3子コメント)

"The sad thing is, its hard to find a solution."

Why is there suddenly a problem? Seriously, I've yet to be convinced there is one. I've yet to read a cogent argument that there is a problem with the courts.

The vast majority of cases in our system are decided by the credibility of the witnesses I'd venture. There's no CSI smoking gun 99.99% of the time. When there is clear cut contract instead of a verbal deal, when there is a stab wound and knif with perps DNA and blood, that's when people settle or plead out. when courts become a formality.

The feature of courts is to settle this when it is murky or to say it is to close to call and for justice to be served. that the defendant has a RIGHT to examine those that providing evidence against him and would see him deprived of some liberty, right, or propety. and the side that is against justice has now convinced smart and the fact that we err on the side of letting a guilty man going free rather than an innocent man behind bars is somehow a bug rather than a feature!

they've got people saying the courts are pain when mostly all we have is testimony. wtf? that's what they do best. hash the wheat from the chaff. that's the function. when you don't have courts, you get this deprivation of rights bullshit. this poor SOB was not allowed to examine his accuser or have an attorney present. his whole life's design is fucked. and he was railroaded. and they've presented yet no evidence that this is deviation is even necessary. it really is Kafkaesque. Proclaiming you are creating justice by objectively destroying it, and somehow convincing some thoughtful well intentioned people in the process. It worries me.

[–]asiltopbr 293ポイント294ポイント  (64子コメント)

The problem is they're finding evidence the guy is innocent, and the person lying is still treated like the victim no matter what.

A guy got banned from his college campus because he looked like a guy that had raped a student years ago, even though the student admitted it wasn't him and they only looked alike.

The rape hysteria is out of control, the rape rates are very low.

Around 6/1000 and they're treating it like it's some kind of epidemic.

[–]Porteroso 38ポイント39ポイント  (17子コメント)

But facebook says 1 in 3 girls will be raped in college, who am I supposed to believe???

[–]SamsaraRinseRepeat 75ポイント76ポイント  (2子コメント)

Look to your left, now you look to right. Statistics show that both of these men will rape you.

"I'm not gonna rape you."

"...I might"

[–]morris198 321ポイント322ポイント  (79子コメント)

... and then how would feminists be able to continue perpetrating their 1-in-4 myth of a statistic?

[–]KafkasWonderfulLife 157ポイント158ポイント  (8子コメント)

Lie (as is more frequent for college students?)

[–]BureMakutte 49ポイント50ポイント  (6子コメント)

This is honestly more surprising then I thought. First hand experience regarding how many people lie and generally arent grown up yet in college. Most of them are still on parents dimes and are just finally getting their "freedom". This makes them go into situations they never dealt with before, which sometimes involves them lying.

[–]JesusRapedMyMom 18ポイント19ポイント  (2子コメント)

Exactly why is it surprising for them to lie? If anything, due to the fact repercussions are worse as an adult, you'd assume they'd lie MORE.

I just turned 30 this last year and work in a union shop with most people being at LEAST 50 years old, if not older. I can't believe the kind of asanine behavior comong from people old enough to be my parents or grand parents.

People aren't rational or reasonable at the best of times.

TL;DR - people are assholes, don't be surprised when they act like one.

[–]ifiwereapickle 14ポイント15ポイント  (6子コメント)

Doesn't the 1 in 4 statistic just say sexual assult? Which would be unwanted touching of a sexual manner. Meaning, everything from poking someone as they walk past, to giving someone a hug which made them uncomfortable, to raping them in an ally, all count in the statistic.
To add, according to some, all assult is sexual assult, all harassment is sexual harassment; which makes no sense, but I've seen workplace sexual harassment policy training which claims all harassment is sexual in nature.

[–]sadderdrunkermexican 53ポイント54ポイント  (4子コメント)

I really wish our college would only deal with the psychological trauma, and let the police deal with the actual rape, the problem is that alot of students were breaking the law (drinking underaged) when the rapes occurred, so they don't feel safe going to the police. It's a bad system that hurts victims, hurts the falsely accused, and worst of all, protects serial rapists who can guilt victims into thinking they are "crying rape" when they are actually raped.

[–]ReportingAProblem 40ポイント41ポイント  (1子コメント)

Because students naively think schools have their interest in mind.

They don't realize the school is more interested in making money and reducing liability, because it's just a business.

[–]oneDRTYrusn 68ポイント69ポイント  (33子コメント)

It's really a perfect storm that lead to this. Colleges have been berated for being sexual assault playgrounds ever since the Duke LaCrosse incident. Under intense pressure, they gave the responsibility of investigation to the social justice academics (Seriously, his adviser for the tribunal majored in Social Justice), which directly lead to witch hunts and kangaroo courts.

I honestly have no fucking clue how the Department of Education actually thought that this would be a good idea. I can't believe there wasn't one person there that said "Hey guys, this sounds super sketchy. We sure this can't come back to bite us in the ass?"

[–]Schnort 55ポイント56ポイント  (2子コメント)

Colleges have been berated for being sexual assault playgrounds ever since the Duke LaCrosse incident. Under intense pressure, they gave the responsibility of investigation to the social justice academics (Seriously, his adviser for the tribunal majored in Social Justice), which directly lead to witch hunts and kangaroo courts.

It's mildly ironic, considering the Duke lacrosse incident was fabricated as well.

[–]MajDPearson 18ポイント19ポイント  (7子コメント)

They didn't in the Duke lacrosse case, though; that was a DA. (it's lacrosse, btw, not LaCrosse)

[–]DFWPunk 27ポイント28ポイント  (3子コメント)

Expansion of Title 9. Essentially the colleges were forced to set up these systems in response to the belief rape was more prevalent on campus and women were either afraid to go to the police, or, in the case of athletes, the police were too cooperative with the athletic departments.

The immediate result was a dramatic increase in the reporting of rape, which was held to be proof the system worked. But, for the most part, the systems were not believed to be handing down stiff enough sentences, so you started to see more expulsions or suspensions. Being honest, what other punishments do they have.

There were many who, either in response to the criticism or due to the political environment of the board or school, also started to essentially assume that, in the absence of any evidence beyond the testimony of the two parties, nobody would falsely accuse someone of rape if it weren't true because who would want to go through the process? Of course that ignored the concepts of revenge, sympathy, attention or, as is the case here, over zealous "counselors" who have a knack for convincing some women that encounters that most definitely were not rape actually were.

In short, the road to hell is pave with good intentions.

[–]HabsRaggs 70ポイント71ポイント  (15子コメント)

theres a witchhunt as soon as someone says they were raped

if the college doesnt do something a shitstorm in social media will ensue

[–]ozewe 53ポイント54ポイント  (5子コメント)

I can answer part of that: why is it that every time you read about these things, shit hits the fan? Selection bias. You're not going to read about the cases where the process did its job and everything went swimmingly. There are issues here, of course, but acting as if what you've seen is at all a representative sample of how rape is dealt with on college campuses is quite a misrepresentation.

[–]Swadqq 412ポイント413ポイント  (30子コメント)

It hurt me to even read "evidence that supported his innocence." You don't need evidence to be innocent! You need evidence to be guilty!

[–]cuteman 86ポイント87ポイント  (3子コメント)

It hurt me to even read "evidence that supported his innocence." You don't need evidence to be innocent! You need evidence to be guilty!

Rape is a serious crime. So serious infact that on college campuses (or Internet articles) not even innocence is a valid defense.

[–]KurayamiShikaku 16ポイント17ポイント  (2子コメント)

That's how some would truly have you believe it, though.

Guilty until proven innocent to protect the victim's feelings. Doesn't matter if you're innocent - you might be guilty, and if you were guilty just imagine how hard that would be on the victim to have people doubt the validity of their claim! Better to just assume you did it.

It is insane to me how often rape is treated like this (in society, I mean). Absolutely it is a terrible crime, and absolutely we need to protect victims and help them through such an incredibly traumatic experience. That doesn't mean flipping common sense, and the foundation upon which our justice system was built, on its head.

False rape accusations should carry severe prison sentences if you're found guilty. The idea that "we mustn't dissuade victims from coming forward" is asinine.

[–]ColdSuit 37ポイント38ポイント  (6子コメント)

Unfortunately with rape, you are guilty until proven innocent. Even then if you are proven innocent, you are screwed. Your employability is nonexistent and you are a social outcast.

[–]Kindin_Einar 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exculpatory evidence is a thing. If it's legitimate it basically ends the case and so is very useful.

[–]movaid7 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hope they get sued big time. Also hope that the people who made the decisions enjoy some pretty hefty repercussions.

Bet the girl won't even be charged though

[–]Thunderzap 2829ポイント2830ポイント  (734子コメント)

Hope the guy prevails against Amherst. I thought universities taught logic, used empirical evidence, and taught against jumping to conclusions of ignorance. Rape is a serious matter; false accusations against innocent people is equally a serious matter. Amherst is a big fail on this.

[–]ShortWoman 227ポイント228ポイント  (23子コメント)

Universities need to get out of the business of prosecuting crimes, period.

[–]Joocemann 53ポイント54ポイント  (0子コメント)

I hope a wave of lawsuits sets a serious example and they give up the special status themselves

[–]Magoonie 41ポイント42ポイント  (10子コメント)

Agreed, this isn't "somebody stole my Nickleback CD", it's a serious crime that should be dealt with by the police and the courts.

[–]acerebral 2030ポイント2031ポイント  (328子コメント)

I thought universities taught logic, used empirical evidence, and taught against jumping to conclusions of ignorance.

Clearly, you did not go to college.

Edit: Thank you for the gold kind stranger!

[–]DthBySnuSnu 781ポイント782ポイント  (149子コメント)

"you cant use fox news as sources. i must use credible sources like huffington post" - my phd social studies prof

i took courses like that because they were required to graduate

EDIT: LOL This blew up. I went to a pretty decent university. Its one of the best for Computer Science and medical professions. That is all im going to say

Many people pointed out that PhDs probably would never recommend HuffPost. I'm starting to doubt what I heard. Maybe I wasnt paying attention and heard wrong. It was a stupid class

Correction: I just realized what made my original comment sounded like BS. The list of credible sources included "CNN, HuffingtonPost and more" Not just HuffPost.

Edit3: god damn it it was a 400 lvl class for a Bachelor of science degree. the prof has a phd. i wasnt in some phd track. what the fuck is wrong with you people

[–]J__rad 467ポイント468ポイント  (105子コメント)

Sounds like you went to a joke of a university. News sources are never acceptable except maybe to cite an event as having happened, or show public awareness.

[–]Traiklin 71ポイント72ポイント  (2子コメント)

You mean backyard shithouse university isn't credible?!

[–]FuzzyLoveRabbit 258ポイント259ポイント  (86子コメント)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that never happened.

No phd is going to recommend huffpo as an optimal source.

[–]SpunkyMonkeyEUW 121ポイント122ポイント  (33子コメント)

There was a German PhD biologist that was in the news for saying that measles wasn't a virus and denied its existance. You can't get a PhD in common sense.

[–]vicerowvelvet 34ポイント35ポイント  (26子コメント)

there are many "smart dumb people." you can be a badass biologist but you can still be a bigot or an idiot.

[–]Mercarcher 35ポイント36ポイント  (24子コメント)

The actress who plays Amy in BBT has a PhD in neuroscience (the actress, not the character) and is an anti-vaxer and believes in alternate medicine.

[–]smithsp86 198ポイント199ポイント  (26子コメント)

If you think a PhD makes someone smart or logical you are in for a bad time.

Source: I work with a lot of PhDs

[–]Karmaisforsuckers 101ポイント102ポイント  (21子コメント)

Obviously working in IT is the only thing that guarantees someone is both smart and logical

/s

[–]Icy207 26ポイント27ポイント  (8子コメント)

I mean computers are pretty logical, they are however pretty dumb.

[–]Owyn_Merrilin 35ポイント36ポイント  (7子コメント)

Garbage in, garbage out, but at least the garbage is logical and predictable within the constraints of the code. A computer will do exactly what you tell it to, but that does mean exactly, and if you word it wrong, you're gonna have a bad time.

[–]jzieg 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

The computer is always right, it's just not always right in the way you expected it to be.

[–]I_SPLIT_INFINITIVES 33ポイント34ポイント  (7子コメント)

A PhD is often merely a sign that someone put the work in, not that they are brilliant, or even particularly intelligent.

[–]raven_785 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

Based on their comment history they went to University of Washington, which at least in my field (software) is considered to be a pretty good school.

[–]thetompain 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not all classes require journal citations bro

[–]Trying2BaWiseGuy 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

This.

But something that people seem to be glossing over here: the effort by Amherst to hunt out rapists came in response to a pretty atrocious, fairly real first person report of a female victim. Read at your own discretion:

http://amherststudent.amherst.edu/?q=article/2012/10/17/account-sexual-assault-amherst-college

Frankly, this combined with the above article shows quite clearly why students and administrators should not be responsible for adjudicating rape cases. Yes, our justice system is flawed too, but some of the things that girl mentions are "How to Not Treat A Rape Victim 101."

[–]morris198 317ポイント318ポイント  (158子コメント)

This, coupled with the feels-based fear-mongering over GMOs, shows that the political left is losing its claim to being the rational, science-minded party.

[–]pfunkmort 136ポイント137ポイント  (14子コメント)

The thing about politics that people forget is that it's a trade (a craft). Young academics go to school to learn about political science, about advertising, about rhetoric, about demographics and statistical trends, and they all get the same degrees.

John Q. Republican has belief system x, so the right-wing spindoctors concoct a propaganda and a set of issues and a set of candidates to conform to system x and rally the base - this includes things like manufacturing scandal, constructing an Orwellian vision of a political "other" who disagree with system x and an endless political war that must be waged, using the science of their trade.

John Q. Democrat has belief system y, so the left-wing spindoctors concoct a propaganda and a set of issues and a set of candidates to conform to system y and rally the base - this includes things like manufacturing scandal, constructing an Orwellian vision of a political "other" who disagree with system y and an endless political war that must be waged, using the science of their trade.

It's corrosive, all of it.

[–]CaptainCAPSLOCKED 32ポイント33ポイント  (12子コメント)

That's just basic democracy. What's more corrosive is having one person, or one set group of people making all decisions without input from the public. The struggle between ideas may seem destructive, but its a huge educating force when the debate is confined within peaceful democracies.

[–]pfunkmort 57ポイント58ポイント  (8子コメント)

The genuine struggle between ideas might be an educating force. When it's all manufactured and forced to conform to a workshopped narrative constructed by self-interested and corrupt institutions, it's largely hollow.

"You'll never guess what the Republicans in the House are trying now. It's DISASTROUS. Donate 3 dollars today."

"Wait till you see how Obama DESTROYED the right wing. Donate 3 dollars."

It's fluff, and it bleeds into just about every facet of the political industry, even policy.

[–]SFBingoClowns 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think it's a left/right issue. Politics is about getting your way. If actual science helps, great. If the science is against you then ignore it or create fake science that supports you views.

It is very rare that the opposite happens and the science actually changes the politics. There is no "rational, science-minded party".

[–]NocturnalQuill 28ポイント29ポイント  (5子コメント)

The past few years have been particularly painful for me as a leftist. I believe what I do (I'm a democratic market socialist) because I feel that it's the best way to provide the highest quality of life for the highest number of people possible based on empirical evidence and real world examples. The left is being poisoned by an obsession with identity politics and lack of regard for evidence. Every day, it feels like the left is slowly morphing into the religious right, minus the Jesus part. Your alternative is the mainstream right, which isn't any better.

I can't win. I can't fucking win.

[–]EByrne 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Same. I've been a registered Democrat since I was 18, and in high school I volunteered for my home state's Democratic Party during election season.

Over the last 5 years or so, I've come to understand that while the party used to somewhat be aligned with my values, it just isn't anymore. The obsession with identity politics and portraying women as universal victims and men as universal aggressors has successfully alienated me. Not to mention Obama running the most secretive, authoritarian, anti-whistleblower administration in history, while championing TPP.

Assuming Sanders doesn't win the nomination, I'm voting third party in 2016.

[–]Freddie_AppsHero 44ポイント45ポイント  (5子コメント)

Did they ever have one? The left party in my country is still against nuclear. They want to shut down our only nuclear plant, which we use for medical radiation. Basically, people are going to die because that party is scared of some atomic boogeyman.

[–]Maniacal_Musings 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

This, coupled with the feels-based fear-mongering over GMOs,

Found that to be a present in social sciences related majors/classes. Sustainability studies which was being run by the social sciences department that also covered anthropology, sociology, psychology etc were distinctly anti GMO.. where as the biology, biochem etc physical/natural sciences guys who actually had first hand knowledge of particular factors in the subject were distinctly Pro-gmo. Generally speaking that is, there were however several anecdotal situations whereby opinions/topic standings varied greatly.

Edit: As examples from the university I went to;

The social sciences/sustainability studies guys though Anti-GMO overall liked crops such s as "golden rice" even though its a GMO product due to the positive effect it can have on populations with limited access nutritious dietary components.

Biology/biochem etc guys had a somewhat negative stance towards wind pollinated crops and GMO due the fact that they are very difficult to contain and limit hybridization with other related sub-varieties of similar plants(be they crops or not) outside of a greenhouse/lab environment... which could potentially lead to a variety of unforeseen problems. However, this with the caveat that the benefits gained from the engineering would likely outweigh the negatives related to it.

So on forth.

[–]Shiroi_Kage 346ポイント347ポイント  (273子コメント)

Those are professors that teach logic and empirical observation, not administrators. Administrators are scared shitless of all the crap their institution could get when a female cries rape.

[–]FapTillYouDie 301ポイント302ポイント  (156子コメント)

We are living in a society where feelings rather than facts dictate policy. It is sad to see how this rape hysteria has gotten out of control considering that rapes are down 80% since the 1970's.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-diamandis/evidence-of-abundance-6-r_b_5630907.html

I blame publication like Gawker and Jezebel for whipping everyone into an irrational frenzy.

[–]securitywyrm 173ポイント174ポイント  (9子コメント)

Great example of feelings over fact: California bans a lot of very specific guns, and there thread that links them together is that each banned weapon was featured prominently in an 80s action movie.

[–]the-incredible-ape 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

wrong, we are living in a society where bad PR and liability insurance premiums/policy restrictions dictate policy. You're right that Gawker bears responsibility for making its money mostly by doing dogpile/witch-hunt style "journalism" based on anger and fear, though.

[–]threetoast 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Jezebel is Gawker.

[–]Devlinukr 115ポイント116ポイント  (43子コメント)

What the fuck happened to society where you can't even have a drunken one night stand anymore without the fear that one of the parties somewhere down the line is going to cry rape and ruin your life a few YEARS down the line?

It used to be if you get drunk and had sex with someone you regretted the next day then it's a lesson learned.

[–]datpiffss 140ポイント141ポイント  (17子コメント)

No one wants to hold themselves responsible for their actions and when they don't like who they wake up next to, some peoples only reaction is to blame that person.

[–]cuteman 25ポイント26ポイント  (0子コメント)

What the fuck happened to society where you can't even have a drunken one night stand anymore without the fear that one of the parties somewhere down the line is going to cry rape and ruin your life a few YEARS down the line?

It used to be if you get drunk and had sex with someone you regretted the next day then it's a lesson learned.

Colleges are now K-16 as far as administrators are concerned.

Feelings supercede rights and due process on many campuses.

[–]GuiltySparklez0343 33ポイント34ポイント  (14子コメント)

Whats worse is that if you have sex with someone who is drunk and you are male, it's technically rape. Even if you are drunk yourself.

I don't believe the same rule applies to a male being drunk and a female not.

[–]Vegetal_Headwear 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Personally, while I wasn't raped, I was sexually assaulted at the age of 17 by an older guy the first time I got drunk. Thinking like this took me a long time to get out of, because I didn't want to be one of those guys that cried 'rape' or whatever because of something that happened while I was drunk.

While I get that some girls do call rape after regrettable experiences, it took me too long to realize that it was not regret I was feeling, but shame that I had been taken advantage of.

[–]0x1107D5EB5B5BA4D7C6 150ポイント151ポイント  (5子コメント)

It is sad to see how this rape hysteria has gotten out of control considering that rapes are down 80% since the 1970's.

Reported rapes are down. Everyone knows that it's a new era of oppression and that for every reported rape, approximately 5,699,000,000,000 women are actually raped.

[–]mr_munnin 68ポイント69ポイント  (3子コメント)

That's more women than there are people! That's terrible!

[–]Sacrix 52ポイント53ポイント  (0子コメント)

And it's all because of the children! Think of the patriarchy! You wouldn't download a terrori-

Wait.

[–]morris198 126ポイント127ポイント  (31子コメント)

Administrators are scared shitless of all the crap their institution could get when a female cries rape.

So, instead, the universities violate the civil liberties of their male students and open themselves up to lawsuits, all because (in many cases) their own professors have "empowered" women to feel victimized by their own poor choices.

[–]cderwin15 59ポイント60ポイント  (19子コメント)

It's the financially and politically favorable move. While male students that are expelled could sue for damages (likely tuition, the value of a diploma, and the value of damage to the young man's reputation, maybe $250k), rape victim's suits would result in much larger damages (what do you think the value of being raped is? add that to the value of seeing your attacker around campus, and arguably the emotional damages of lack of justice, likely at least several million, significantly more if a class action suit is filed), the individuals involved could possibly also be sued for criminal negligence, and the university would be subject to loss of ALL federal funding under title IX (as the DOJ and DOE have threatened ~50 schools).

Politically, the university is also under much less scrutiny. Whether for good or ill, nobody takes Men's Rights Activism seriously, while >50% of the population (and certainly more college-age kids) identify as feminists and feminist activism is HUGE and career-threatening on college campuses (read about Laura Kipnis's predicament) for accused rapists and administrators alike. I would argue that men (and definitely affluent white men) are a politically disadvantaged group on today's campuses, and therefore look to the courts for remedy instead of the universities. Men, and more specifically accused rapists, simply cannot exert the kind of political pressure on universities that the feminist movement can and readily does.

Regardless of the truth of the matter (whether we need more stringent policies against rape or more thorough/less biased proceedings), both the legal and political ramifications of mistakes for universities are smaller when the accused are the victims, so universities institute policies that wrongly convict the accused more often than they leave the raped without justice. Honestly, this benefits no one but the university. When the focus (I think) really should be on rehabilitation of the victims and hearing allegations justly and without bias, university resources are becoming consumed with defending processes that nobody thinks is fair, and for good reasons.

** RANT OVER **

[–]Turst 20ポイント21ポイント  (4子コメント)

How can you sue a college for rape if there isn't enough evidence for a real trial?

[–]mr_munnin 23ポイント24ポイント  (0子コメント)

Civil cases are far, far different than criminal cases. Burden of proof of culpability is much less, if even present. Sometimes a case is trying to prove someone ISN'T liable, which is bass ackwards.

[–]Hypothesis_Null 67ポイント68ポイント  (4子コメント)

It's the safe bet, since you can't actually oppress white men.

[–]sadderdrunkermexican 26ポイント27ポイント  (46子コメント)

Yeah the false rape report filed against my school by the rolling Stones scared our administration (and potential students) absolutely shitless. They responded by hiring these useless security guards that can't enter the parties where the rapes are occurring...it's pitiful

[–]MisterTruth 75ポイント76ポイント  (32子コメント)

And if a man cries rape? Lolmencantberaped.

[–]SgtSlaughterEX 39ポイント40ポイント  (29子コメント)

tell that to the thousands of male rape victims in jail every year.

But that doesn't count cause they're criminals.

And women can't rape. But withdraw consent halfway through a blowjob and that's rape.

One day sex is going to have to be agreed upon by two parties in a legal contract with a witness and a notary.

[–]FuzzyLoveRabbit 100ポイント101ポイント  (18子コメント)

But withdraw consent halfway through a blowjob and that's rape.

To be clear, if your partner withdraws consent mid-act, you should stop or it is rape.

[–]SgtSlaughterEX 62ポイント63ポイント  (4子コメント)

I agree, if someone takes back consent mid act, they shouldn't be forced to complete the act afterwards.

But If someone takes back consent mid act and tries to say that was retroactively rape; that's fucked up.

[–]AyeMatey 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

The only thing large institutions understand is money. To get the right thing to happen, there needs to be lawsuits and threats of large monetary payouts .

:|

[–]RomeClone31 473ポイント474ポイント  (40子コメント)

If I got wrongly accused of rape I would sue the fucking shit out of EVERYONE too

[–]apolloreddit 436ポイント437ポイント  (27子コメント)

Let's face it, as a guy, being wrongly accused of rape is close to a death sentence. What would one possibly do?

Even with a rock-solid alibi, the damage will already be done to one's career and/or social life.

[–]swolemedic 50ポイント51ポイント  (5子コメント)

I was falsely accused of rape but thankfully it ended alright enough. The police did a sting call where they were listening in on the call unbeknownst to me and she was supposed to address the "event". The TLDR of it is that the whole phone call I was like "I WOULD NEVER AND WILL NEVER HURT YOU" and because the police did their job and properly looked in to the case I didn't get charged. After the rape accusation didn't work she started to say I beat her and all these other things but of course there was no evidence because it didn't actually happen.

I've seen other people get fucked over by it but thankfully I ended up alright. Apparently a good number of her friends didn't believe her and one went to the police and stated that they didn't believe I would do that. It's scary to think how easily she could have ruined my life, though

[–]thatscrap 10ポイント11ポイント  (4子コメント)

Your story just turned me gay.

[–]swolemedic 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

lol best part is she was my first real long term girlfriend. I had lady friends before her but nobody who I actually wanted to date. I fell in love with her, we dated for years, and then she broke up with me and started saying that shit. It's not even like I broke up with her. She dumped me AND tried to ruin my life. On the plus side it made getting over her incredibly easy

[–]thatscrap 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

Seriously. Get over here and let me suck your dick, bro.

[–]someguysaid 121ポイント122ポイント  (0子コメント)

Some guys have committed suicide after being accused of rape. Some guys have been murdered after being accused of rape.

I very much agree with you.

[–]apolloreddit 164ポイント165ポイント  (13子コメント)

Whoever downvoted me, please link me a single article with a happy ending for the guy after being falsely accused. Maybe I go to the wrong websites (anywhere ever on the internet) or the wrong newspapers (multiple papers in multiple countries).

[–]BenSteinsMoney 127ポイント128ポイント  (3子コメント)

A dude who goes on to live a normal life with little to no impact due to false allegations is not much of a story. Just saying.

[–]Ryan_Wilson 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's the same everywhere. The damage is instant. Found innocent or not, your life is ruined. The stigma surrounding rape and how it always instantly favours the female "victim" is one I doubt we'll be getting rid of soon.

[–]cuteman 17ポイント18ポイント  (4子コメント)

If I got wrongly accused of rape I would sue the fucking shit out of EVERYONE too

There are few resources for people who have been falsely accused.

Your best chance is if you have cash to throw at a retainer, but no one is going to take it on contingency, if they even take the case at all (universities are basically billion dollar clients or potential clients and a good number of law firms don't want to get involved). But who has $20-100k to throw at lawyers for something that's very difficult to prove?

The reality is that for the vast majority of people ensnared by these fraudulent complaints, the best they can hope for is a stalemate.

I know all too well, I had a buddy go through it.

[–]ARandomKid781 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Guy at my college was on the sports team when he was accused several years ago, so he got the fun experience of having his reputation obliterated in the newspapers and online.

Nobody seems to want to acknowledge that the reason the charges against him were dropped was because at one point it was found out that the girl lied about not consenting to him - this one (at least via the text messages/phone calls or whatever) was essentially the same as all the other sexual encounters they'd had previously, until suddenly "lack of consent" (completely unmentioned until after the fact of course, so he had no reason to assume she wasn't anything other than all for it at the time) and on top of that fabricated evidence to get him charged. He still isn't viewed terribly favorably around here.

[–]westward_jabroni 694ポイント695ポイント  (264子コメント)

Not only is it disgusting that the true victim of this situation was the one who was punished, it continually baffles me how schools get away with instances of extremely limited due process and faux trials. All in the name of protecting victims and increasing safety, this man was expelled and outcasted for basically being assaulted himself. I hope this lawsuit goes somewhere. Rape and sexual assault is a criminal act that should be handled by a criminal court. I can only hope in the future, misappropriation of "justice" does not occur on this level.

[–]Lana_Phrasing 262ポイント263ポイント  (192子コメント)

it continually baffles me how schools get away with instances of extremely limited due process and faux trials.

Because of Title IX, that's why.

The logic goes that sexual assault is a manifestation, and even perpetuation, of sexual inequality. I don't know how that's the case, it probably has something to do with that bullshit "1 in 5" statistic that manufactured itself out of thin air, but that's the rationale.

Now, with Title IX, schools are "encouraged" ("mandated, by law") to combat and prevent inequality in the ranks of academia, particularly with respect to sexual discrimination. So, what happens if you have the notion that rape is a perpetuation of sexual discrimination and inequality, and likewise have a mandate to root out and prevent sexual discrimination and inequality?

Well, if you're [though not exclusively] publicly-funded, land-grant universities--operating as State Actors, no doubt--you combine the two recipes to create your own special brand of pipin' hot bullshit pie that is university kangaroo courts--err, I mean, Councils, and..and Tribunals, adjudicating claims of sexual assault.

I'm hoping Title IX gets challenged on these grounds all the way to SCOTUS, as it'd be really interesting to watch the Supreme Court twist and contort itself to uphold this ludicrous practice, because after all, we can't have--gasp--discrimination.

[–]Endless_Summer 167ポイント168ポイント  (122子コメント)

That whole "1 in 5 women in college will be raped" statistic just blows my mind. Like do people actually stop and think about it at all? When the real odds are about one in a thousand, there are actually people out there that think 20% of college girls are constantly being sexually assaulted... What girl would ever willingly go to college if that was true?

What a bunch of hateful idiots.

[–]nixonrichard 110ポイント111ポイント  (38子コメント)

They don't say "raped" they always use another term that strongly implies something illegal happened to 1 in 5 girls when that's not what happened.

It should say "1 in 5 girls in college will get drunk and then have sex" and it would be much more accurate.

[–]EddieVisaProphet 144ポイント145ポイント  (6子コメント)

a panel of students and administrators found him ‘guilty.’

Yeah, that seems intelligent.

Johnson disagreed and described the college’s handling of Doe’s case as “kafkaesque.”

What an apt term.

[–]ADrunkenChemist 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

Comes from the author Franz Kafka, and refers to the style with which he wrote his books (which in his dying wish asked for to be burned). Basically it describes a nightmarish situation which most people can somehow relate to, although strongly surreal. With an ethereal, "evil", omnipotent power floating just beyond the senses.

I await the day where I can shoehorn this into a conversation

[–]IranianDumass 231ポイント232ポイント  (29子コメント)

It's time colleges just handover these cases to the police department and stop trying to play Mallcop

[–]FascistAsparagus 207ポイント208ポイント  (25子コメント)

They're not allowed to do that. Obama literally ordered them to conduct fake trials to wrongly convict innocent men. I am really not kidding.

http://counsel.cua.edu/fedlaw/title-ixs.cfm

Schools should not wait for the conclusion of a criminal investigation or criminal proceedings to begin their own Title IX investigation, and if needed, should take immediate steps to protect the student in the educational setting. Any MOU with local police should include clear policies on when a school will refer the matter to local law enforcement. The letter clarifies that a preponderance of the evidence standard should be used in place of the higher clear and convincing evidence standard which is inconsistent with the standard of proof required for violations of civil rights laws. Schools must maintain documentation of all proceedings, which may include written findings of facts, transcripts, or audio recordings. All persons involved in implementing grievance procedures must have training or experience in handling complaints of sexual harassment and sexual violence, and in the grievance procedures and related confidentiality requirements.

[–]Bureaucromancer 37ポイント38ポイント  (0子コメント)

Of course even a preponderance of evidence standard doesn't make any sense in this case. A coherent case can be made for preponderance of evidence in an institutional setting... What happened here ignored exculpatory evidence and really doesn't make any sense at all from any kind of process standpoint.

[–]jpe77 485ポイント486ポイント  (39子コメント)

The female student should be expelled.

The male student was black out drunk - this was undisputed - and she forced herself on someone that was totally unable to give consent.

[–]Lee1138 442ポイント443ポイント  (20子コメント)

Just expelled? That's textbook rape right there...

[–]Discover2010 215ポイント216ポイント  (14子コメント)

Exactly what I was thinking. A man would be jailed within a blink of an eye if he did the same thing

[–]SgtSlaughterEX 125ポイント126ポイント  (12子コメント)

jailed and raped in jail already.

[–]PoopJuiceExtract 196ポイント197ポイント  (10子コメント)

People would actually endorse him being raped in jail. That's the real rape culture.

[–]morris198 79ポイント80ポイント  (8子コメント)

You may already be aware of this, but "rape culture" really was coined for the discussion of prison rape and society's flagrant lack of concern for it. Which, of course, makes the fact that feminists co-opted the term and made it all about themselves -- all in a society that frequently holds more contempt for rapists than murderers -- that much more ludicrous.

[–]Eurynom0s 81ポイント82ポイント  (9子コメント)

But men are evil walking rape machines, even if they're incapacitated they're still just inherently walking around looking to rape women. And sex is something men do to women, not something that men and women do together, because I claim to believe in equality but actually hold an extremely regressive and reactionary worldview that boils down to women not being responsible enough to be accountable for their actions.

[–]darkrit3 40ポイント41ポイント  (1子コメント)

"Doe was expelled 38 days after being notified of Jones’ accusations against him. He was forbidden from having an attorney represent him during the school’s hearing and prohibited from cross-examining his accuser." There is no fair representation nor is there a fair trial. Additionally, these types of cases (involving sexual assault) on a campus should be handled in a fair manor. Not to mention they should only be handled in a criminal court.

[–]acerebral 934ポイント935ポイント  (88子コメント)

I hope this guy gets millions and forces the college to revoke Jones' diploma and retroactively expel her.

The staff responsible for this travesty should also be fired.

[–]morris198 592ポイント593ポイント  (61子コメント)

The staff responsible for this travesty should also be fired.

Don't hold your breath. The Group of 88 never got so much as a firmly-worded scolding for their vicious efforts to vilify and socially destroy the Duke Lacrosse team during the rape hoax in 2006.

[–]newsblues6 208ポイント209ポイント  (12子コメント)

The woman that falsely accused them later ended up murdering her boyfriend and now sits in jail.

She received free tuition from the Al Sharpton/Jesse Jackson crew and got a degree in criminal justice from that as well. They rewarded her for lying about her rape.

[–]ThePowerOfQuebec 61ポイント62ポイント  (5子コメント)

The woman that falsely accused them later ended up murdering her boyfriend and now sits in jail.

And she only got something like 14 years, far less than the average for a brutal knife killing. Women on average get 30% less jail time even when all other factors are equal.

[–]FascistAsparagus 225ポイント226ポイント  (27子コメント)

Many of these misandrists are still teaching male athletes, who know they are not equals in the class and can't speak up.

[–]morris198 157ポイント158ポイント  (24子コメント)

I doubt being an athlete has much to do with their prejudice -- all males (minus perhaps transwomen) are considered guilty according to their ideology. Although race might play a role, too. Bigotry is really coming full-circle. Unfortunately, instead of fighting against prejudice in all its forms, "progressives" would rather giggle over what they believe is karma.

Of course, it's sins of the father and all that, you know?

[–]Nightwing___ 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

At least the economics department called them out for trash they are.

Time

[–]morris198 13ポイント14ポイント  (3子コメント)

It's really telling when you look at which departments the 88 hailed from. From what I remember, it included zero signatories from the law school or any STEM department -- you know, the disciplines that rely upon facts and evidence.

Unsurprisingly, African-American Studies and Women's Studies professors were the most represented.

[–]Nightwing___ 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Honestly it just confirms my opinions on these majors.

[–]WhatsaHoya 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

There were also zero from the Philosophy department. Critical thinking is always useful.

[–]PlayTheBanjo 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

One of the accused (and acquitted, rightfully so) transferred to my alma mater while I was there. Due to the break in his education while the trial played out, we ended up being the same year even though he was a year older. He basically had to transfer, given that there were active faculty calling him and his fellow accused rapists and opposing their being invited back to campus.

I was really proud to have him. I admit, when the story first broke, it was told to me by someone who had assumed the victim was telling the truth and I had no reason to disagree. As time went on and it became clear that this was an angry person trying to get revenge for something by making a flimsy accusation, I realized what a dangerous mentality that is. Oh, and the fact that he was badass at lacrosse didn't hurt.

[–]morris198 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

given that there were active faculty calling him and his fellow accused rapists and opposing their being invited back to campus.

I do not necessarily consider myself a vindictive man, but if those professors had been rightfully sued into poverty, I'd have celebrated it.

[–]ThePowerOfQuebec 24ポイント25ポイント  (6子コメント)

The department with the highest proportion of signatories was African and African-American Studies (AAAS), with 80%. Just over 72% of the Women's Studies faculty signed the statement, Cultural Anthropology 60%, Romance Studies 44.8%, Literature 41.7%, English 32.2%, Art & Art History 30.7%, and History 25%

And they wonder why people hold STEM in higher regard. It seems they were among the few departments who didn't sign off on bullshit.

[–]Exnihilation 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

Philosophy, Law, and Business are also absent from that list. There are probably some other fields of study that I am forgetting as well.

Edit: Foreign Languages, Theater Studies, Music, Religious Studies, and a few others from this list of majors http://admissions.duke.edu/education/majors#liberal-arts-liberal-arts-philosophy

[–]morris198 23ポイント24ポイント  (2子コメント)

And, if I remember correctly, not a single signatory from Duke's department of law. Funny thing about that.

... highest proportion of signatories was African and African-American Studies (AAAS), with 80%.

And not to beat a dead horse, but that strikes me as downright racist. 'Cos, if I were a betting man, it would appear those professors chose to assign blame based solely on the skin color of those involved.

[–]Confirmative 83ポイント84ポイント  (3子コメント)

The staff responsible for this travesty should also be fired.

That may actually be possible. These people are not law enforcement or officers of the court, so there's no qualified immunity.

[–]AgITGuy 49ポイント50ポイント  (2子コメント)

And because there was a 'trial', we damn sure have records of everyone involved in that shit show. They are known and a matter of public record.

[–]SirPremierViceroy 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Maybe something will come of that kangaroo court.

[–]leetfists 21ポイント22ポイント  (13子コメント)

Can a college revoke a diploma?

[–]liquidpig 37ポイント38ポイント  (9子コメント)

Yep. There are people who were caught plagiarising their dissertations who got their Ph.Ds revoked years later.

[–]leetfists 4ポイント5ポイント  (8子コメント)

Interesting. Is there any legal oversight into such a thing or is it left solely to the discretion of the college?

[–]liquidpig 11ポイント12ポイント  (7子コメント)

I don't know. It's probably got some rules attached to it though.

For the Ph.D cases, it's because they found out that the person didn't ACTUALLY complete the Ph.D themselves. That makes sense and is clear-cut.

If you commit a crime after you've graduated, they probably can't take your degree away, no matter what.

If you commit a crime while at school... I really have no idea.

[–]mtwstr 97ポイント98ポイント  (95子コメント)

i don't understand how the college thinks that the process they followed was fair

[–]fermion1022 9ポイント10ポイント  (8子コメント)

I don't understand why the college is the one setting up the process. How on earth did these cases end up being separated from the legal system? If we believe that these cases are serious, then they need to be handled seriously in a court of law.

[–]RideTheWingsOfDeath 256ポイント257ポイント  (80子コメント)

The accused was male. The accuser was female. Nuff said.

Reddit loves to deride and mock the men's rights movement but the endless stream of cases like this does much to vindicate their grievances.

[–]bufftart 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wait soooo she gave him head.... and she's the one claiming rape?????? Wtf

[–]UrsulaMajor 56ポイント57ポイント  (0子コメント)

young man gets raped, is accused of rape by his assaulter, and is expelled from school despite all evidence to his favor. despicable.

[–]IncendiaVeneficus 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

It sounds to me like this guy should file charges for rape against the female student.

[–]Boombachacha1 41ポイント42ポイント  (9子コメント)

This seems absurd. If the evidence shown on this article is correct then the school as well as the female student should answer charges. She should be the one on trial for taking advantage of him and then trashing his life with this allegation. If she doesn't face charges and he be compensated then there is an unfathomable injustice being done.

[–]ash3s 17ポイント18ポイント  (5子コメント)

Shouldn't this girl, if it is possible to prove that she made false accusations, be charged with something more serious than 'defamation' and causing 'emotional distress' ?? The charges she filed would have effectively ended this persons life; IMO this is almost equivalent to attempted murder. I don't see why it is any less serious, this guy would have had to serve a long prison sentence, endangering his life, scarring him forever, making him a felonious sex offender. He would have to survive prison as a sex offender.. and avoid getting additional charges inside, to ever get out.

Meanwhile this girl , who actually should be facing sexual assault charges and prison time herself, gets sued for defamation and emotional distress.

[–]amanafart 196ポイント197ポイント  (8子コメント)

Blame Obama's administration and their Dear Colleague letter.

[–]YoureProbablyATwat 54ポイント55ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hope he sues and wins millions.

[–]maxsw 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

In other word female party guilty of sexual assault as male was not in a state of mind to legally consent.

[–]spergery 38ポイント39ポイント  (18子コメント)

Remind me again why colleges are investigating rape allegations. It's a criminal matter, not a civil one. That's why we have police and courts.

[–]WomanWithWot 65ポイント66ポイント  (4子コメント)

These fucking colleges.

[–]cagar003 55ポイント56ポイント  (3子コメント)

From the legal filing:

Jones went on to express her fear of the fallout when her roommate, EK, and others found out that she had had sex with EK's boyfriend, especially since, “I’m pretty sure [John Doe] was too drunk to make a good lie out of shit.”She said that if EK were to find out, “[S]he would literally never speak to me again.” DR then suggested that Sandra Jones “put all the blame on [John Doe].” Sandra Jones responded that “[EK] knows me it’s pretty obvi I wasn’t an innocent bystander.” They agreed that they both “hate[d]" John Doe. Sandra Jones then wondered that since she and John Doe “didn’t technicallyyyy have sex...[is it] not quite as bad?”

This is a fucking joke....right?!

[–]chimpyman 54ポイント55ポイント  (7子コメント)

hopefully the person who falsely accused him gets some serious prison time.

[–]43252345234523452345 33ポイント34ポイント  (5子コメント)

Based on past cases. Most of the time it is minor prison time, maybe 6 months in most cases.

[–]chimpyman 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

ya really sad to see that. should be the same length he would have gotten had he been charged.

[–]Boonkadoompadoo 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

It should in this case, because she actually sexually assaulted him.

[–]numberonealcove 21ポイント22ポイント  (2子コメント)

Why the hell are US universities conducting rape trials? I think that's the first question to ask.

[–]iBleeedorange 58ポイント59ポイント  (9子コメント)

Roughly two years after the incident occurred, the female student accused Doe of sexually assaulting her and the school launched its own investigation. Doe was forced to partake in a school-led rape trial absent of any legal representation and eventually expelled after a panel of students and administrators found him ‘guilty.’

If you're sexually assured report it right away. Second this process is bullshit.

[–]Hyndis 73ポイント74ポイント  (8子コメント)

Report it right away, but report it to the actual, real police. Not to the campus, but to the police department of the city/county you're in.

Rape is a serious matter, one that should be handled by the real authorities, not a school.

[–]ManonIsland 28ポイント29ポイント  (2子コメント)

I was a permanent adjunct on a college campus for a while before the whole title ix bs came down, and served on what was then called the "campus judicial committee." During the 5 years I was on the committee, we had 2 cases of actual rape--1 was a woman who was physically forced to have sex against her will. The other was a woman who was so drunk she was passed out and unconscious and a guy had intercourse with her and filmed it. Both matters were referred to the local police. Both male students were prosecuted and convicted.

We also had about a dozen or so cases of women accusing men of rape during or following parties. All of these were dismissed for the simple fact that the women in these cases never said "no" and actively participated in a sexual encounter. They were not intoxicated to the point of incapacitation. In some of these cases the guys involved were generally jerks, promised to date the women, and then up and left, or on one case told her she was a horrible lay when they were finished. All of the cases in this latter class fell under the category of "women feeling bad" because they had sex for reasons they regretted the next day. Either the guy was an asshole, or she found out he was a notorious "player", her girlfriends made fun of her, or, in one case, the girl got pregnant, and because she was a "good Christian girl" claim the sex was nonconsensual.

From conversations with colleagues serving on these committees now, most of the 2nd class of cases would result in the men being expelled or suspended in today's "Tile IX" climate.

I remember one immature woman in particular. She admitted she went to the party, made out with the guy in public, asked him to go up to his room, voluntarily took off her clothes and had intercourse, but insisted that she didn't really want to do it because her friends were pressuring her because she was still a virgin, and she felt "the guy should have known better and 'went too fast.'" When she was asked if she was able to object, she said "well, once we started, I couldn't really stop, because he would have gotten upset, so I just went along with it, but didn't want to.

In todays day and age, that poor guy would be labeled a "rapist" because the woman could not bring herself to express what she wanted and gave in to peer pressure.

That is why I get so incensed by these modern day "social justice warriors." Their ideas of "active, constant consent" simply do not reflect the reality of how people interact, and I have heard quite a few feminists straight up say that its ok for a guy to be wrongfully accused of rape, because that will teach other guys a lesson.

[–]buttrballs 10ポイント11ポイント  (7子コメント)

Non-American here and slightly confused... Why isn't this a police issue?

[–]traveler_ 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

It is a police issue, for the question of "was a crime committed?" Under our laws that question must be answered yes "beyond a reasonable doubt" in order for someone to be convicted of a crime.

But it's a university issue for the question "did a student violate our policy?" They don't have to be the same thing at all: cheating on a test violates policy but isn't a crime; driving too fast is breaking the law but doesn't violate policy.

In the past universities were allowed to decide questions about their own policy without outside control. But to try to make it more equal, a law called Title IX made—well many changes, but one of them is that cases like this must follow the legal standard of "preponderance of the evidence" in order to be charged with a policy violation. This is usually described as being 51% certain and is the same standard our law uses for violations of civil code, lawsuits, and other non-criminal legal questions.

It's been controversial, and is the grounds for political fighting on both the left vs. right dimension and the academic freedom vs. government regulation vs. "look what these ivory-tower nutjobs are saying now won't somebody stop them" dimensions.

Tl;dr this is a very-very-political subject. Don't trust anything you read (including me) without knowing the full context.

[–]hahayouguessedit 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

For EVERY woman or girl who has ever been raped, this is an affront. I am seething. I was kidnapped and raped when I was 8 years old. I didn't even have a word to describe what happened to me until I was 13. I literally did not know what happened to me and I thought a new hole was stabbed into me.
I have such anger and hostility against women such as Sandra Jones (and Lena Dunham) who cry rape when rape did not occur, and in Sandra Jones' case, she may be the rapist if her text messages are reliable...as she took care of him (oral) after he vomited (and Joe Doe alleges he was passed out). Also, what a princess of a girl she is since he (Joe Doe), was 'walking his girlfriend's roommate home'. So she is a...(what do you call a 'woman' who pounces on another woman's man? IDK). For every X chromosone (yes, I can't even call them female) to lie, fabricate, rely on revisionist history what describe what 'happened'... when some of us are concentrating on inhaling and exhaling each day is an anathema to me. TMI, sorry., but can you tell I am angry?

[–]probpoopin 20ポイント21ポイント  (3子コメント)

Same happened to me in a domestic violence case. I had ample paperwork to show this person's motive for making the claim, and also more that completely refuted almost everything she said. When I tried to present the documents showing this. The judge wouldn't even bother looking at them. Now I am in domestic violence classes, never having been convicted of a single crime. The other side of, this is just an isolated incident, we need to protect the victims is utter bull shit. So many guys in there with the same exact story. Lost everything, kids, house, money. Never been so much as charged with a crime.

[–]morris198 81ポイント82ポイント  (4子コメント)

This shit is going to happen again and again until universities abandon their moral-panic and feminist fear-mongering, or they're sued into compliance.

[–]PhilosopherPrince 47ポイント48ポイント  (2子コメント)

And it's going to be HILARIOUS watching the rape culture crusade slam face-first into the brick wall of legal reality.

[–]Teddie1056 51ポイント52ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not so hilarious for the poor men who are martyred though

[–]PhilosopherPrince 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well no. But the sad truth is there are millions suffering various degrees and forms of injustice around the world with no hope of respite. There will be some more victims of this hysteria, among them actual rape victims whose stories are viewed with a tiny bit more skepticism every time a false accusation makes the news.

This particular nonsense is going to be shut down when schools are instilled with a proper fear of lawsuits from wrongfully sanctioned men.

What's truly depressing for liberals who DO NOT buy into the PC/identity politics fad is the knowledge that this madness alienates many people in the political center and will have electoral consequences.

[–]KravishIQIce 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Is it irrational for me to be wary of hooking up with girls after a night out because this might happen to me?

[–]Lost2Logic 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

no its not. I would advise taking things slow even with a "hook-up". and do alot of texting with them.

[–]chenanzu 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Welcome to university, home of the one and only clown court where men get expelled and abused because feminism.

"Actual rape" 10-30 minutes of an unwanted thing in a hole.

"False accusation of rape" expelled from college, possibly 10-30 years of being locked in a cage, having no rights, being fed from a dog bowl, likely being sexually and physically abused, being trained to live in an environment of constant fear with abusers everywhere.

Its pretty clear which of these is worse. I know which one I'd pick if given the choice. For some reason there is virtually no punishment for one of these two, though.