全 55 件のコメント

[–]Shippoyasha 17ポイント18ポイント  (4子コメント)

This is one of the more disgusting breach of academia. If they stay within the cancerous and meaningless social academia, fine. But STEM has never needed this. Some of the earliest pioneers of tech in technology, scientific research and medical sciences have been women and we'll documented as such.

The way they barge in, calling themselves the saviors and revisionism history like STEM has some kind of a sexism issue is the same creepy revisionism we have seen them try to attach to gaming, table-top, anime and comics cultures.

[–]Splutch 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

STEM is where the money is.

[–]lost_garden_gnome[S] 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

But STEM has never needed this.

This is where you'll be met with disagreement, and adamantly. One of the oldest members of the network described her encounters in the field early in her career (probably the 60s), unfortunately I think many in the audience took it as a sign of the more recent times (revisionist history).

It is a mantra, it is known that women are only bad at math because we tell them they are bad at math, and have impostor syndrome because they feel like they have it when asked. It is rife with bias, and those of us who grew up in the "girl power!" movement of the 80s and 90s don't question it because we've never heard a different story.

[–]OPPRESSIVE_SHITLORD 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Everybody in STEM has impostor syndrome. It's what happens when you work in proximity of the best.

[–]lost_garden_gnome[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pretty much, at least at first. You also tend to feel like an idiot nearly everyday

[–]Limon_Lime7-37k Get. Eleven more drug deals. 16ポイント17ポイント  (4子コメント)

It's a sad day when we value feelings over knowledge.

[–]lost_garden_gnome[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

Holy shit that was fast!

[–]Limon_Lime7-37k Get. Eleven more drug deals. 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

ok?

[–]lost_garden_gnome[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Was trying to set up a "that's what she said" just was impressed with the response time from my posting. Thanks for reading.

[–]Inuma 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

She must have called Superman faster than a speeding bullet.

[–]the_nybbler 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

Anything "Women in..." is poison nowadays, both for men (obviously) and for competent women who are interested in advancing the field and success on their own merits rather than tearing down the Other.

[–]Vallorn_ 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Women in BLANK" is pretty much as big a warning as a sea of neon coloured hair when it comes to idiots trying to shame people into giving them a free lunch.

[–]lost_garden_gnome[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh man, you have no idea how I feel about that organizer. There are many folks who I feel get a high five to help bolster numbers of the "appropriate" category. This is extremely detrimental to those that have the ability and put in the effort. The table will always have a tilt, I am not trying to suggest it won't, but we shouldn't be TRYING to tilt it.

[–]Wylanderuk 8ポイント9ポイント  (5子コメント)

The keynote speaker talked about how a multitude of diverse views are more effective at solving highly complex problems

I keep seeing this claimed, I have never seen it proven.

[–]lost_garden_gnome[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

He did a great job explaining how one can determine the weight of a cow by averaging the guesses of hundreds of individuals. I would imagine a few ranchers and butchers would determine the weight pretty fucking quickly though. Similarly, he examined algorithms for "recommendations for netflix" and how accurately these can choose titles for consumers. When combining methods, groups researching this found improved results. But I demand quantifiable data. How big, how complex, how important, how diverse? It is very theoretical at this point, and I do theoretical research, I know some of the limitations inherent to it. These were not addressed.

[–]Wylanderuk 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah but in most people that bring it up they don't seem to mean diverse opinions, just gender and skin colour.

[–]lost_garden_gnome[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I tried to bring this point up at the forum, but thought it futile. I hope I sowed some seeds of doubt, some understanding that the "big bad white man" was not the problem, and never has been.

[–]Vallorn_ 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Some part of me is saying that it does make some degree of sense. Viewing a problem from different sides should be helpful... But it's not the be all and end all of solving problems, the individual skills of people working on it are more important than the amount of views. You could have a thousand idiots, each with a different view and have a very diverse set of views... Or you could have a team of three experts with slightly divergent views... I know which one I would want working on a quantum mechanics problem.

[–]lost_garden_gnome[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Correct, to me, the speaker's data did not match his claims

[–]Splutch 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm really interested in more "boots on the ground" accounts of stuff like this in places they are infiltrating. It seems no one is willing to stand up for themselves, that there's a real environment of fear makes it all the more important people speak up.

[–]AlseidesDD 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think 'no one is willing to stand up for themselves' is just a part of why they have been so effective in infiltration. It's also because people who are focused on actually getting stuff done 'aint got time' for political bullshit and that RadFem/SJWs exploit the innate desire of wanting to do the right thing for society.

[–]lost_garden_gnome[S] 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

It seems no one is willing to stand up for themselves, that there's a real environment of fear makes it all the more important people speak up.

Now that my career is no longer on the line, I speak up when I can. Seriously, they can take down Nobel Prize winners and men that lead us on the road to slip the bonds that ties us to this world. It takes "regular folks" talking about it, pointing out the shit and showing people that it is coming. We don't need talking heads leading this, we need everyday people talking with neighbors, friends, relatives, in a calm and concise manner, a "consumer revolt" if you will.

[–]Jack-Browser/r/TheCommentGraveyard 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Again, welcome home, brother/sister/preferred anything!

[–]OrangeDreamed 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

women are less likely to go into STEM because they are underrepresented in national sports media coverage

But what does this have to do with the price of butter?

Dear lord. that's freaking insane. I honestly have a hope this WOMEN MUST DO EVERYTHING AT LEVEL MEN CAN (by this I mean, the edited level that is lower than peak performance) bullshit disappears. Why should excellence be punished in any circumstance?

[–]lost_garden_gnome[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

This "discussion" (lecture) was led by a professor of philosophy. Seriously. They are supposed to engage in exclusively critical thought, and not worry about gathering data and jockeying lab equipment. How is this lost to her? Then to just shut down conversation when her ideas are pulled apart. VERY ACADEMIC, MUCH IDEAS.

[–]OrangeDreamed 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

I had a philosophy class once, I joked to my mother about it: Scientists do, Philosophers Kant.

It honestly sounds like she didn't want people to actually DO anything but constantly parrot what's already there (in terms of research or w/e). Probably didn't understand what it means to work.

[–]lost_garden_gnome[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh man, this was back when I still thought the majority of scientists and professors in this field had ethics and integrity. And that we were going to have a "discussion" (I had asked ahead of time if this was a lecture of a discussion to make it clear, and was expressly told it would be a discussion, then was shushed, FUCKING HA! HOW COULD I BE SO STUPID?).

I said we could argue "from the armchair" since neither of us had good enough evidence and talk about the ideas of it, rather than the data. yeesh, fool of a took. To be fair, other grad students in the "discussion" (I'm still using scare quotes, get over it) commended me on my persistence, the rest gave up on trying to argue by that point and just tuned out.

[–]Meafy 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

Luckily in the UK we are seeing a major push back since hunt was asked to resign , its been on tv/radio and loads of prominent scientists have spoken against his resignation.

[–]Vallorn_ 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Shirtgate hurt their cause as well considering the pushback it got there.

[–]lost_garden_gnome[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Luckily in the UK we are seeing a major push back

I am becoming more reserved in my age. I will believe it when I have enough evidence to change my opinion. People are happy to return to the SOP, so change the SOP.

[–]Meafy 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05y0ql1

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05zqhnb/question-time-18062015 around the 24:50 mark

Several Uk print papers have articles on it from Richard Dawkins to Brian Cox , both well respected scientists.

And a letter signed by Professors regarding free speech from micro aggressions which i can't for the life of me find at the moment.

[–]lost_garden_gnome[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

HA, watchable for UK folks only. Love it, and I'll take your word. But I liken this to the Silence), from what I have seen, these crazies appear to get through a degree (on merit or not is tough to tell), and start clamoring for change, use connections to get picked up, pull at heart strings, and start whispering, and then start shouting.

[–]TimetravelerKihot MILF in your area - chat now! no login required! 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

So, the SJWs want to take over STEM, they want to take over leadership positions, they want to take over universities. How about we just draw back to our own little tinker hut and let them have the world? Once everything is shattered into pieces, they will come back crying.

I mean, seriously, why even bother? They will have their way and they will fuck up and afterwards they will disappear again. Then we can go back to work and get things done.

[–]lost_garden_gnome[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I cannot tell you what to do. I can tell you what I think, but the decision of what you will do is yours alone.

seriously, why even bother?

There are reasons to bother, and reasons not to. I'm of a mind to make my life my own. I don't think I can do that in science, so I'm leaving it. Know the battles you best able to fight, and fight those. If there is a place you want to fight, but don't think you can win, then prepare, and then win. I knew nothing about this field, but I have put in hours everyday to learn and study and now I will square off with any asshole who thinks they can go head-to-head on this.

Keep practicing, stay calm and carry on going. i'd prefer not to get set back a few decades just because some whiny bitches got their fee-fees hurt because some other whiny bitches lied to them about having it all. Be persuasive, not to the crazies, but to those on the fence.

[–]snakeInTheClock 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

How about we just draw back to our own little tinker hut and let them have the world? Once everything is shattered into pieces, they will come back crying.

I mean, seriously, why even bother?

Because they will come into those little tinker huts to tear them down just before fucking up this world into ruins, most likely.

EDIT: never mind the edited out part.

[–]AlseidesDD 4ポイント5ポイント  (9子コメント)

How likely do you think we'll have a something like STEM+ bubble out of the infected corpus of the STEM academic/industrial community, Aliens style?

Also, did the National Forum leader hold an actual PhD in a STEM field or in Gender Studies?

[–]lost_garden_gnome[S] 9ポイント10ポイント  (8子コメント)

Electrical Engineering. And I don't think it will happen in that way. They will look to devour from within, evolving the language and policies of the field to suit them, bullying those that disagree. They are approaching this a smart way: go for the sympathies of those in power, manipulate the leaders own biases (we just want to help those less fortunate! everyone knows it's blacks, latinos, and women, it always has been!) and "help" rewrite policy. It will be a top down approach, completely changing the beast, digimon style.

[–]AlseidesDD 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

This subversion will ultimately damage the efficacy of STEM academics and industries. I sincerely hope that it does not arrive at that in order for people to savvy up and question the the effects of valuing feelings and beliefs over knowledge and merit.

[–]lost_garden_gnome[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think it already has. Maybe it was going from a private uni to a state school, but...I saw a significant reduction in expectations and demands on students. They simply did not know the material well enough. But to encourage women, we have been told time and again to wear the soft gloves, which I do not think will help these girls get jobs, advance careers, and learn to make tough decisions that COOs, CFOs, and lead engineers have to make

[–]CaesarCzech 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

so These SJWs make it harder for women to get in STEM LOL Only they could think its good thing.

[–]lost_garden_gnome[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's similar to childhood education. If we just give them a passing grade, it'll keep the parents off our backs, and move them on to be someone else's problem. Now we have a bunch of kids with no idea what to do (not unusual), no idea how to do it (unfortunate, but again, somebody invented everything we have today), and the expectation that they deserve to have it all (and now we get to the problem, the reward of life is the work. If there's anything you take away from this, remember that THE WORK IS THE REWARD)

[–]Jack-Browser/r/TheCommentGraveyard 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

"[Insert outrage of the day] is keeping women out of STEM" has become a meme, by now. No coincidence, since it gets repeatet by the media.

[–]lost_garden_gnome[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

It makes money. People care about women, they care A WHOLE LOT about them. And they should, this is a good thing, to care about other people. People are willing to sacrifice their time/effort/monies to help, and we should not chide that. We need to chide those that abuse our good nature.

[–]CaesarCzech 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

People dont care about people much, With women its more the evolutionary desire to spread your genes. Then again my idealism got hit pretty hard.

[–]lost_garden_gnome[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

You can't take the scientist out of me...

Test that hypothesis. Ask someone for help. Not like those green peace fucks, seriously, ask someone in good conscience for some help, you might be surprised. Then again, you might not.

[–]trabuj 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Interesting read, thanks. I'm someone who comes more from the political side of things. I'm not a STEM person, but I've been active in leftist circles for a while. We've always had to deal with radicals that hold orthodoxy above critical thinking, which is what SJWs really are.

Regarding what you wrote here:

No, a PhD holder from a well-known, prestigious academic institution in California described herself as a radical feminist and came to preach to this forum of people who are only trying to help.

It seems that people in STEM are trying to do social good but don't have the background and so try to 'call in the experts'. Unfortunately they don't seem to discern radical activists from the more rational ones, allowing radicals to posit themselves unchallenged (as they would be in political circles) and dictate policy. It's fucking ridiculous.

[–]lost_garden_gnome[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think you are quite accurate in this assessment. One of my directors is a fantastic human being who is probably one of the reasons I have not completely dissociated from feminism and written it and all that follow it as blithering idiots and ideologues. It seems to me that the leader has had a rough time in life, and has blamed it on others and their sexism. She described having difficulty finding collaborations in grad school and after because she was a woman, whereas I feel it might be because she is an insufferable bigot.

[–]Vallorn_ 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Well, since I'm looking to get into STEM (Still in college working on my undergrad) partly to avoid this kind of tripe... Physics to be precise... Do you have any tips for avoiding or for working against this kind of absolute nonsense? I mean, it all falls apart when you pull apart their ridiculous presuppositions of things like The Patriarchy or ask them for any serious statistical data to back up their claims, but it seems simply questioning this orthodoxy labels you as some kind of heretic (I'm beginning to see scary parallels with this and the behavior of environmentalist loonies too) and then they do their best to cast you out of your profession for life.

I would ask a second question if you have time. Why do you think that intelligent people like those in STEM listen to the ravings of these mad, ideological prophets and take them seriously in the first place?

[–]lost_garden_gnome[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Do you have any tips for avoiding or for working against this kind of absolute nonsense?

Know how to spot them. If you don't know how, learn about them. You're in undergrad; your job is to get an understanding of physics, other sciences, maths, and learn critical reasoning. Do this. You're also there to get a degree. Make sure that happens. Don't let this shit slow you down. There will always be people that will help. Seriously, I've helped thousands of students in STEM subjects by this point. I went to grad school in a college town, I knew people everywhere I went, people on the street would say, "Hi! Haven't seen you in ages, how've you been, man?!" often to me on the streets with the wife, she wondered how I knew so many people. I talked with them, I helped them the best I could. I'm not the only one who does this, find those people.

Have you read Calvin & Hobbes? Read it. Life is calvinball. Figure out your plan, and go after it. Why are you getting a physics degree, keep this in mind, and go after your goals. Leave the loonies behind.

Why do you think that intelligent people like those in STEM listen to the ravings of these mad, ideological prophets and take them seriously in the first place?

Pressure, they don't know better, they want to help but realize a distinct lack of time and assume they are professionals, it's their neice, it'll make them look better, they need to in order to justify funding from NSF, DOE, DARPA, or any other major funding body, many reasons most likely. How could one be a scientist and a Catholic a hundred years ago, and still believe in transubstantiation? It's tough to get these ideas out of your head when you were raised with them and don't have the time to dig deeper on them.

This is the big point, they don't have time to figure out that they are nuts. Was just listening to a bit by Joe Rogan on the wage gap bullshit Silverman pulled. He heard her say it, but didn't dig any deeper. He's busy, we're all busy.

[–]Vallorn_ 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thanks very much! I'll keep your advice in mind mr garden gnome!

[–]lost_garden_gnome[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

THAT'S DR. lost_garden_gnome to you!

Seriously, could you imagine if I could say something like that with a straight face and simultaneously tell you that life is a giant game of calvinball? Have fun, I've been up Q to 12 for years now!

[–]PratzStrike 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

You would think that STEM of all things was the one place where merit held sway over emotion. You cannot change the feelings of a mathematical equation, and no amount of claiming microaggression will change the formula of NaCl. Gender should be the last thing that means a thing in them, in either direction - if you can do the work, you should be able to do the work.

[–]lost_garden_gnome[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

It doesn't mean much, most just see it as a tax that has to be payed.

[–]I_AM_INTERFACED[🍰] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

The science wars round 2 I suppose