dyresand
Cult Leader

Religious Views: Cult of Alice

Posts: 4813
Threads: 181
Joined: 7th October 2014
Reputation: 21

12th May 2015, 15:26

(12th May 2015, 15:23)James Redford Wrote:

(1st May 2015, 18:39)AFTT47 Wrote: So being that it is that tight, why have I never heard of it? Even allowing for a grand conspiracy among the physics community, they couldn't avoid this if it's that ironclad. And people get famous when they overthrow the established order, you know. Yet in over two decades, no graduate student has latched onto this and launched himself to the forefront. Probably because it's nowhere near as ironclad as you make it sound.

I never claimed that there was a conspiracy regarding this matter. That was other people's characterization of it on this forum.

There are a lot of things which are perfectly true yet which are not followed by mass culture, such as anarcho-capitalism. In case you haven't noticed, mass society is seriously screwed-up. This world is certainly not suffering from an overabundance of truth: quite the contrary.

As to why that is, it's because humans are apes still evolving from a very primitive state of ignorance and barbarism. Humans to this day are still very primitive and a long way from catching up with Christ.

Well doing that we would cut out the need to eat we sleep etc even still if we do get to that in the future with conscious upload we wouldn't be human. 

Find

Reply

LastPoet
Power... Overwhelming!

Religious Views: The order of boobie worshippers

Posts: 9008
Threads: 71
Joined: 29th May 2010
Reputation: 87

12th May 2015, 15:34

Well, I laughed at this fellow characterization of all others besides himself as primitive. At least one can hope it's a joke.

Find

Reply

James Redford
Lux et veritas et libertas

Religious Views: transhumanist

Posts: 18
Threads: 1
Joined: 1st May 2015
Reputation: 0

12th May 2015, 15:38 (This post was last modified: 12th May 2015, 15:50 by LastPoet.)

(1st May 2015, 20:17)Chas Wrote:

(1st May 2015, 14:24)James Redford Wrote: Hi, Chas. Actually, the Omega Point final singularity is mathematically unavoidable per the known laws of physics (viz., the Second Law of Thermodynamics, General Relativity, and Quantum Mechanics), of which have been confirmed by every experiment to date. Hence, the only way to avoid the Omega Point Theorem is to reject empirical science. For the details on this, see Sec. 3: "Physics of the Omega Point Cosmology", Subsec. 3.1: "The Omega Point", pp. 12-19 of my aforecited article "The Physics of God and the Quantum Gravity Theory of Everything".

No, it is not mathematically unavoidable.  You have swallowed some fishy story hook, line, and sinker.

You Wrote:The known laws of physics require there be intelligent civilizations in existence at
the appropriate time in order to force the collapse of the universe and then manipulate
its collapse so that the computational capacity of the universe can diverge to infinity.

Martin Gardner called it the "completely ridiculous anthropic principle" (CRAP).

You haven't actually done the math.

Hi, Chas. You can see for yourself that I have "done the math" regarding the Omega Point Theorem in Sec. 3: "Physics of the Omega Point Cosmology", Subsec. 3.1: "The Omega Point", pp. 12-19 of my previously-cited article "The Physics of God and the Quantum Gravity Theory of Everything".

Concerning Martin Gardner's review of Profs. John D. Barrow and Frank J. Tipler's book The Anthropic Cosmological Principle (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1986), notice that Martin Gardner never states any error on Tipler's part within said review. However, I do find the below exchange between Tipler and Gardner to be quite telling; it transpired from Gardner's aforesaid review of Barrow and Tipler's book. Note Gardner's two-word reply to Tipler.


<Links removed - LP>



Please acquaint yourself with the forum rules. You can only link to outside sources after accruing 30 days of membership and 30 posts.

Website Find

Reply

dyresand
Cult Leader

Religious Views: Cult of Alice

Posts: 4813
Threads: 181
Joined: 7th October 2014
Reputation: 21

12th May 2015, 15:39

(12th May 2015, 15:34)LastPoet Wrote: Well, I laughed at this fellow characterization of all others besides himself as primitive. At least one can hope it's a joke.

i hope so. 

Find

Reply

James Redford
Lux et veritas et libertas

Religious Views: transhumanist

Posts: 18
Threads: 1
Joined: 1st May 2015
Reputation: 0

12th May 2015, 15:46 (This post was last modified: 12th May 2015, 15:55 by LastPoet. Edit Reason: Breaks forum rules again? Please accrue 30 posts or 30 days of membership before advertizing. Last warning )

(12th May 2015, 14:54)dyresand Wrote:

(1st May 2015, 13:51)LostLocke Wrote: And, from what I understand so far, the current idea is that the universe won't collapse.
Rather, it will expand until it rips itself apart.

Last time i checked no its collapsing back in on itself 
http://phys.org/news/2015-03-universe-br...scale.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scienc...31256.html

its a good thing it would be depressing in that scenario of it ripping itself apart at least with this we get a universal do over....forever :D

Hi, Dyresand. The known laws of physics provide the mechanism for the universe's collapse. As required by the Standard Model of particle physics, the net baryon number was created in the early universe by baryogenesis via electroweak quantum tunneling. This necessarily forces the Higgs field to be in a vacuum state that is not its absolute vacuum, which is the cause of the positive cosmological constant. But by sapient life annihilating the baryons in the universe via the inverse of baryogenesis, again via electroweak quantum tunneling (which is allowed in the Standard Model, as baryon number minus lepton number, B - L, is conserved), this will force the Higgs field toward its absolute vacuum, cancelling the positive cosmological constant and thereby forcing the universe to collapse. Moreover, this process will provide the ideal form of energy resource and rocket propulsion during the colonization phase of the universe.

<SNIP>

---

(12th May 2015, 15:34)LastPoet Wrote: Well, I laughed at this fellow characterization of all others besides himself as primitive. At least one can hope it's a joke.

Hi, LastPoet. I never said that. However, some apes are smarter than others.

Website Find

Reply

LastPoet
Power... Overwhelming!

Religious Views: The order of boobie worshippers

Posts: 9008
Threads: 71
Joined: 29th May 2010
Reputation: 87

12th May 2015, 15:56

Post 1 more advertizing link without looking at the forum rules, question is, are you feeling lucky?

Find

Reply

robvalue
Chainsaw of logic

Religious Views: Atheist

Posts: 10105
Threads: 56
Joined: 9th August 2014
Reputation: 81

12th May 2015, 16:44 (This post was last modified: 12th May 2015, 16:45 by robvalue.)

What's all this about? Something to do with physics and... the bible? I'm feeling there's gotta be an underpants gnomes argument in there.

If you have found him, tell him to stop dicking around and come talk to us in a civilised manner.

Website Find

Reply

dyresand
Cult Leader

Religious Views: Cult of Alice

Posts: 4813
Threads: 181
Joined: 7th October 2014
Reputation: 21

12th May 2015, 16:54

(12th May 2015, 15:46)James Redford Wrote:

(12th May 2015, 14:54)dyresand Wrote: Last time i checked no its collapsing back in on itself 
http://phys.org/news/2015-03-universe-br...scale.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scienc...31256.html

its a good thing it would be depressing in that scenario of it ripping itself apart at least with this we get a universal do over....forever

Hi, Dyresand. The known laws of physics provide the mechanism for the universe's collapse. As required by the Standard Model of particle physics, the net baryon number was created in the early universe by baryogenesis via electroweak quantum tunneling. This necessarily forces the Higgs field to be in a vacuum state that is not its absolute vacuum, which is the cause of the positive cosmological constant. But by sapient life annihilating the baryons in the universe via the inverse of baryogenesis, again via electroweak quantum tunneling (which is allowed in the Standard Model, as baryon number minus lepton number, B - L, is conserved), this will force the Higgs field toward its absolute vacuum, cancelling the positive cosmological constant and thereby forcing the universe to collapse. Moreover, this process will provide the ideal form of energy resource and rocket propulsion during the colonization phase of the universe.

<SNIP>

---

(12th May 2015, 15:34)LastPoet Wrote: Well, I laughed at this fellow characterization of all others besides himself as primitive. At least one can hope it's a joke.

Hi, LastPoet. I never said that. However, some apes are smarter than others.

To annihilate bayrons for starters we would have to talk about anti matter it could exist in our current universe but it would be such a small amount of it would be rare.
Then producing anti matter now it would interesting even for such a small minuscule amount even then containing it would also be dangerous. We do not simply have the power
or the technology here on earth to destroy a universe the universe as of now is simply recycling itself. 

Find

Reply

AFTT47
Posting Freak

Religious Views: Secular Humanist

Posts: 928
Threads: 36
Joined: 19th January 2015
Reputation: 13

12th May 2015, 20:52

(12th May 2015, 16:44)robvalue Wrote: What's all this about? Something to do with physics and... the bible?

One hell of a strange mix. 

Website Find

Reply

James Redford
Lux et veritas et libertas

Religious Views: transhumanist

Posts: 18
Threads: 1
Joined: 1st May 2015
Reputation: 0

6 minutes ago (This post was last modified: 1 minute ago by James Redford.)

(12th May 2015, 16:44)robvalue Wrote: What's all this about? Something to do with physics and... the bible? I'm feeling there's gotta be an underpants gnomes argument in there.

If you have found him, tell him to stop dicking around and come talk to us in a civilised manner.

Hi, Robvalue. What this (as in, our entire existence) is all about is that existence is nothing more than pure mathematics playing itself out. And mathematics is infinite.

The reason the universe exists is because everything comes from nothing, mathematically and logically speaking (which is to say, foundationally speaking, i.e., fundamentally speaking). Thus:

0+0 = 0

-1+1 = 0

-2+2 = 0

-3+3 = 0

-4+4 = 0

And so on, literally ad infinitum.

That is to say, we exist within the nothingness. Or rather, that the nothingness is everythingness, mathematically and logically speaking.

The above is actually just the traditional Christian theological doctrine of creatio ex nihilo, i.e., creation from nothing. That is to say, the traditional Christian theological position of creatio ex nihilo maintains that God did not create the universe from preexisting material, or from His own substance (i.e., the Divine Substance), but rather that the material which makes up the universe came into being with the universe, i.e., that it came into being literally from nothing. Hence: creatio ex nihilo, i.e., creation from nothing.

For much more on this matter, see my following article, which details physicist and mathematician Prof. Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point cosmology and the Feynman-DeWitt-Weinberg quantum gravity/Standard Model Theory of Everything (TOE) correctly describing and unifying all the forces in physics. The Omega Point cosmology demonstrates that the known laws of physics (viz., the Second Law of Thermodynamics, General Relativity, and Quantum Mechanics) require that the universe end in the Omega Point: the final cosmological singularity and state of infinite informational capacity having all the unique properties traditionally claimed for God, and of which is a different aspect of the Big Bang initial singularity, i.e., the first cause. The Omega Point cosmology has been published and extensively peer-reviewed in leading physics journals.

* James Redford, "The Physics of God and the Quantum Gravity Theory of Everything", Social Science Research Network (SSRN), Sept. 10, 2012 (orig. pub. Dec. 19, 2011), 186 pp., doi:10.2139/ssrn.1974708, https://archive.org/download/ThePhysicsO...of-God.pdf , http://sites.google.com/site/physicothei...of-God.pdf .

Additionally, in the below resource are different sections which contain some helpful notes and commentary by me pertaining to multimedia wherein Prof. Tipler explains the Omega Point cosmology and the Feynman-DeWitt-Weinberg quantum gravity/Standard Model TOE.

* James Redford, "Video of Profs. Frank Tipler and Lawrence Krauss's Debate at Caltech: Can Physics Prove God and Christianity?", alt.sci.astro, Message-ID: jghev8tcbv02b6vn3uiq8jmelp7jijluqk[at sign]4ax[period]com , July 30, 2013, https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/...QWt4KcpMVo , http://archive.is/a04w9 .

---

(12th May 2015, 16:54)dyresand Wrote:

(12th May 2015, 15:46)James Redford Wrote: Hi, Dyresand. The known laws of physics provide the mechanism for the universe's collapse. As required by the Standard Model of particle physics, the net baryon number was created in the early universe by baryogenesis via electroweak quantum tunneling. This necessarily forces the Higgs field to be in a vacuum state that is not its absolute vacuum, which is the cause of the positive cosmological constant. But by sapient life annihilating the baryons in the universe via the inverse of baryogenesis, again via electroweak quantum tunneling (which is allowed in the Standard Model, as baryon number minus lepton number, B - L, is conserved), this will force the Higgs field toward its absolute vacuum, cancelling the positive cosmological constant and thereby forcing the universe to collapse. Moreover, this process will provide the ideal form of energy resource and rocket propulsion during the colonization phase of the universe.

<SNIP>

---

Hi, LastPoet. I never said that. However, some apes are smarter than others.

To annihilate bayrons for starters we would have to talk about anti matter it could exist in our current universe but it would be such a small amount of it would be rare.
Then producing anti matter now it would interesting even for such a small minuscule amount even then containing it would also be dangerous. We do not simply have the power
or the technology here on earth to destroy a universe the universe as of now is simply recycling itself.

Hi, Dyresand. The laws of physics allow baryon annihilation using electroweak quantum tunneling via quantum coherence. As physicist and mathematician Prof. Frank J. Tipler writes, "Atoms have energy levels that differ by a few electron volts. Quantum coherence among a trillion atoms would allow the atoms to concentrate the energy differences of the levels on a single atom, and this would be 10 TeV, the amount of energy needed for the baryon-annihilation process to go forward." (See Frank J. Tipler, The Physics of Christianity [New York: Doubleday, 2007], p. 73.)

---

(12th May 2015, 20:52)AFTT47 Wrote:

(12th May 2015, 16:44)robvalue Wrote: What's all this about? Something to do with physics and... the bible?

One hell of a strange mix.  :huh:

Hi, AFTT47. Fiction has to be believable in order to be good (the so-called "suspension of disbelief"), whereas reality is under no such constraint (i.e., reality doesn't care if any believes in it or not).

""
'T is strange,--but true; for truth is always strange;
Stranger than fiction; if it could be told,
How much would novels gain by the exchange!
How differently the world would men behold!
How oft would vice and virtue places change!
The new world would be nothing to the old,
If some Columbus of the moral seas
Would show mankind their souls' antipodes.

What 'antres vast and deserts idle' then
Would be discover'd in the human soul!
What icebergs in the hearts of mighty men,
With self-love in the centre as their pole!
What Anthropophagi are nine of ten
Of those who hold the kingdoms in control
Were things but only call'd by their right name,
Caesar himself would be ashamed of fame.
""
--Lord George Gordon Noel Byron (1788-1824), Don Juan, Canto XIV, Stanza 101, http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/21700 .

Website Find

Reply