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Voat.co's provider, hosteurope.de, shuts down voat's servers due to "political incorrectness" (voat.co)

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[–]fr3nch-toast 7ポイント8ポイント  (36子コメント)

Recently found a jailbait sub over there that implores users to go ahead and post pussy and tits.

This isnt exactly true. They say no fully nude for under 16 years old, which is the law in Switzerland where their servers are (were?). Not sure what the ramifications of that will be for people outside Switzerland. Either way it still kind of creeps me out, but the whole point of freedom is not to hold other people to other's personal feelings right?

Since all the images are hosted on third party sites (mostly imgur) and not on voat's servers I think the liability is going to fall on them.

It also says all this stuff on the sidebar and faq of that jailbait sub. Wouldnt have taken a whole lot of extra time on your part to investigate more before posting unnecessarily inflammatory threads elsewhere.

[–]Maxwyfe 12ポイント13ポイント  (16子コメント)

You know, if I'm in charge of a service like that, I'm going to have to go with the "better safe than sorry" option as Voat seems to have done. CP is not a thing you want your company associated with at all.

[–]GoonCommaThe 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

That's not how it works. It doesn't matter where the servers are, because the content is still illegal in many countries and is being posted and viewed from those countries. Child pornography is child pornography.

[–]fr3nch-toast -4ポイント-3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Wow. I can tell you really have an in depth knowledge of international law. Thanks for the contribution...

Child pornography is child pornography.

Definitely not.....Like I just said.....CP is defined by laws and its defined differently in different parts of the world. Switzerland its under 16 years old, USA its under 18. Pictures of 17 year old is CP in the USA, but not in other countries. So CP is not universal.

Actually its exactly how it works. Companies residing in a country only have to abide by the laws of that country. Switzerland is not going to extradite its citizens to another country to face changes for an action that is perfectly legal in Switzerland. This is the same principal that torrent sites have been exploiting for a long time.

Now you can see how this issue could get legally complicated for the hosting company. This type of content is going to be more trouble than its worth for most people.

[–]analredemption12 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Don't see why you're getting downvoted. European countries view things much differently and in my opinion, more sensibly. For instance in Sweden the age of consent is 15.

[–]niczar [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Age of consent is 15 in France as well, but publishing nudie pics of minors, even older than 15, is very much forbidden.

[–]geekygirl23 2ポイント3ポイント  (13子コメント)

A different sub doesn't mention age but says to go ahead and post pussy and tits.

Also this.

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/3aef5e/voatcos_provider_hosteuropede_shuts_down_voats/csbxrdo

[–]fr3nch-toast -3ポイント-2ポイント  (12子コメント)

Well. Im not going to go looking for that sub, for obvious reasons, but if they are doing that then its illegal. It happens. Its also agains voats policies and will be deleted.

And yeah. I undestand US law. We are talking about severs hosted in a different country.

Edit: and the laws are kind of strange about this. In /r/jailbait, when that sub was still around, it was legal because sexually explicit comments were against the rules of that sub. Reddit removed it because it got plastered all over anderson coopers show and caused a bunch of suburban moms and spineless redditors to loose their shit.

I realize its a fine line, but just because you think those subs are sexualizing minors (which they are if we are being honest) doesnt mean they are under the legal definition of sexualizing minors.

[–]geekygirl23 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

By the way, this is relevant.

For the purposes of a violation of PC 288, the required element in order to prosecute you is your specific intent to satisfy sexual arousal or desire. Whether you touched a child’s naked body (or he or she touched yours) or clothing was being worn is irrelevant.

Additionally, it doesn’t matter whether the sexual conduct involved intimate body parts provided that the purpose of the lewd conduct was sexually motivated.

https://www.wklaw.com/what-is-lewd-and-lascivious-acts-with-a-minor/

[–]geekygirl23 1ポイント2ポイント  (9子コメント)

The way you describe jailbait as it was on reddit would definitely put it into "gray area" territory. It all comes down to a jury of your peers (US law) and dealing with law enforcement that does everything they can to paint you as a monster. They also like to charge you with extreme stuff in these cases then offer you a plea bargain of probation as long as you shut everything down and stay off the net. Even if you won it would ruin most financially.

The sub I was mentioning specific was very clearly different than the old one from reddit. The old one from reddit I'd still say would be found illegal but the case would at least be harder to make.

[–]fr3nch-toast -4ポイント-3ポイント  (8子コメント)

It all comes down to a jury of your peers (US law) and dealing with law enforcement that does everything they can to paint you as a monster.

No it doesnt. US law is not that subjective. It fucking blows me away that people have such twisted views of how things work, but still think they are entitled to their opinion and spread their ignorant fucking view all over. Like if you state your shitty opinion as fact it makes it correct. Did you bother to even look up the US laws on CP before opening your mouth? No you didnt. That seems like the bare minimum someone should do on this subject before starting an argument. You saw a couple dramatized TV scenes of a courtroom and now think you actually know something. If a DA doesnt have evidence to support his case, he doesnt charge you because its a waste of everyones time. There is no "charging with extreme stuff."

US law have bullet-pointed, very specific elements on what constitutes a child and pornography. If you combine those two, you get in trouble. There is no "painting you as a monster" or any thing like that. You either distributed a picture of a 16 year old nipple, or you did not. its pretty fucking black and white. Bikini doesnt equal nipple. Yoga pants dont equal nipple. Only nipple equals nipple.

The old one from reddit I'd still say would be found illegal but the case would at least be harder to make.

How can you even say this when you dont even know anything about CP laws??????? OMFG. Shut your mouth and read something.

Jailbait was taken down because Anderson Cooper did a big story on it and the reddit leaders are spineless. It censorship of completely legal material, no grey area, because it was "distateful" and they "didnt want that type of thing int he community". If there we any grounds what so ever to file CP charges, then they would have been filed. Its EXTREMELY easy to convict CP offenders because the laws are so specific. The FBI doesnt fuck around with that shit. Quick and easy convictions.

[–]geekygirl23 -1ポイント0ポイント  (7子コメント)

Another ignorant donkey. I kept in tune with the laws because I was an adult webmaster from 1999 until 2008.

These cases do indeed go to jury trial you moronic shit. The prosecution has to prove that content falls under their test but it's still in front of a jury.

So, you made a multi paragraph rant completely talking out of your ass but accusing me of doing so in the process?

L O FUCKING L.

[–]fr3nch-toast -1ポイント0ポイント  (6子コメント)

You cant even read. I didnt say anything about a jury. The word "jury" doesnt even appear in that post. Of course it goes to a jury. Fucking shit you are an idiot.

I kept in tune with the laws because

Well I just read them in their entirety...... WTF does "keeping in tune" actually mean. Watercooler gossip!? Obviously you dont know shit or we wouldnt be having this conversation. I bet you've never even been in a real courtroom. You have got to be the most smug retard Ive even talked to. GO READ THE LAWS THEY ARE IN BULLET POINTS YOU DIPSHIT!!!!!!

Jeasus I dont even know what to say. I cant believe people as dumb as you even exist.

[–]geekygirl23 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

I said

It all comes down to a jury of your peers (US law) and dealing with law enforcement that does everything they can to paint you as a monster.

You said

"No it doesnt."

Now you say it does. You are the retard. You are ridiculous on so many levels you must be a troll. Yes, please quit educating me with your counterknowledge of the subject. You know nothing John Doe.

[–]fr3nch-toast [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Sure. I dont remind repeating myself for the slow people...

No it doesnt. It doesnt involve painting you as a monster. The laws in this case are black and white and convictions are not that subjective. The DA isnt going to press charges on someone that doesnt have evidence of CP violations. You cant just walk into a courtroom, claim someone is a pervert, and watch them go to prison. CP laws are so black and white that this doesnt happen.

Ive supplied CP evidence to the FBI and local police a dozen or so times and been involved in several of the prosecutions. Its a case of, "Hey you had pictures of naked 12 year olds. Here they are right here on your computer. Now go to jail." Thats it.....

Stop watching TV law dramatizations. Or you know, you could actually look up the CP laws and read them for yourself. I know you sill havent done that. Based on your reading comprehension it probably wouldnt do you much good anyway.

[–]geekygirl23 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Now, with that out of the way try this.

It will go against everything you've ever known but you'll feel so much better after.

Admit that you were wrong, thank me for the information proving you were wrong and let's move on with our lives.

Cheers

[–]geekygirl23 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I am honest to god for the first time in reddit history laughing my fucking ass off. The #1 complaint about these laws has and will always be the ambiguity and the fact that a jury of your peers decides what constitutes pornography, obscenity and lewd and lascivious behavior.

Since you seem slow being ambiguous is the literal opposite of being black and white.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. You are like Reese when he got every answer wrong on a test but I think you did it on accident where he did it on purpose.

And since your MO is to call me a liar even when you are the one making shit up here is an example of that.

Despite its implementation across a number of circuit courts, the Dost Factor Test applying § 2251 uses ambiguous language, forcing jurors to engage in the disturbing process of analyzing potentially pornographic material, and it results in inconsistent applications that focus on either the content or the intent behind such images. First, the term lascivious, which is used to define child pornography under § 2251,

http://scholarship.shu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1057&context=sports_entertainment

Edit 2: And another

It has been proven that what one court might consider over the limit vs what another court would consider over the limit are different. Therefore, it is best to err on side of caution. Anything not considered standard conditions viewed at a nudist colony or presented as modeling by a professionally recognized photographer in a models portfolio should be considered off limits.

(Hint: That means it's ambiguous, not black and white, you lose, good day sir.)

http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173893

[–]frankenmine [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

She's posting a law about physical contact with a minor when talking about images of a minor. It's completely irrelevant.

[–]Amos_Quito [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This isnt exactly true. They say no fully nude for under 16 years old, which is the law in Switzerland where their servers are (were?).

From the link:

Our provider, hosteurope.de shut down our servers due to "political incorrectness"

.de is Germany, not Switzerland.

And Germany is a terrible choice to host a discussion-based website.

Political correctness and censorship tyrants, Germany.