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Anti-Rape Program Halved Number of Campus Assaults (health.usnews.com)

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[–]lets_mosey_on 104ポイント105ポイント  (174子コメント)

I think its good they at least had a program on acknowledging rape isn't just strangers in an alley. Too much 'rape prevention' is basically 'pepper spray'.

Its good that we have programs about feeling comfortable saying no, being rude, getting the fuck out of there and not worrying about 'being rude', also getting your friends out of there.

But I really think guys need need to be more included in this. To see what women need to deal with.

But there is so much controversy over 'teach men not to rape'.

when really, if we just called a class 'avoid false accusations' we could say the same things and it would be full of guys.

The tips would be: don't coerce, or be pushy, don't sleep with a girl who is might be to drunk to remember, Make sure you know she really wants it to, and is very willingly participating. Let her take her own clothes off. ask 'do you want me to' first.

I'd bet that would reduce the number of rapes too.

[–]ohdatsrite 49ポイント50ポイント  (72子コメント)

They could simply invite both men and women to take similar programs. I think it's time we dropped the whole "Teach x not y" angle. Especially, since we're finding out more and more that men aren't the only ones assaulting people on college campuses.

The "avoid false accusations" angle wouldn't help very much as it would be self selecting. People would be less likely to take the course for fear of being labeled an MRA. People who did take the course would probably already be having reservation about being accused and proceed with caution or not at all.

[–]Ender-of-Bart 20ポイント21ポイント  (69子コメント)

Isn't it sad that people have to afraid to be labeled a Male Rights Activist?

[–]ohdatsrite 23ポイント24ポイント  (6子コメント)

Depends on who you talk to. It's kinda funny, though. I was called an MRA as an insult on this subreddit several times before I even realized what it was. I've also been called a feminist as an insult as well.

Guess I just don't fit in :)

[–]trchili [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If you're being attacked on all sides, it's likely because you're somewhere near the center.

[–]Ender-of-Bart 11ポイント12ポイント  (4子コメント)

Actually supporting rights for both genders is seen as a bad thing on the sub.

[–]WadeK [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Funny how only people who complain about this sub are the ones who bring this up, while the actual people participating in discussions are fairly gender-equal.

[–]ArentWeSpecial [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I disagree, and here's why.

In several of the most recent posts I've seen about sexual assault I've noticed comments from people hoping for awful things to befall men who are guilty/accused of sex crimes. Sometimes these comments extend to what should or shouldn't happen to them in prison, and they're almost always concerned with making the convicted/accused suffer in some extraneous way.

I get that sex crimes are awful, but the gendered bias of those views is made visible when similar threads about women not getting enough tampons / feminine hygiene products is met with an uncritical and unanimous moral outrage.

In that thread no one gave two shit about what those women did to be in prison. Most of the popular discourse demanded that female prisoners be treated with dignity and respect. This view is not reconcilable to the views of those that believe that certain sub-sectors of the Male prison population should be given corporal punishment / subject to forced sterilization / or removed from protective custody and exposed to those that wish to hurt them.

I honestly fail to see how that is even remotely gender equal... On the one hand, it's okay to castrate or physically harm men in prison, but on the other, it's not okay for female convicts to be denied hygiene products? The uncritical call to arms for all women's rights to be elevated in prison whilst systematically condemning male sex offenders to the worst possible treatment is not "gender equal". It shows a very clear and ideological bias.

Also, just to be clear, I strongly advocate for the rights of all prisoners - male or female. People in prison, regardless of their crimes, are still people. The deprivation of liberty is their punishment. For those guilty of the most heinous crimes the period is longer or indefinite. Just because they did something awful doesn't doesn't mean we should dehumanize them and deprive them of their other basic rights.

edit: Some words needed replacing. Nothing major

コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

    [–]lurkmode_off [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Only as sad as it is that people have to be afraid to be labeled social justice warriors (or, for that matter, feminists).

    [–]wprtogh [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Getting men into the program too would undoubtedly make it more effective. Preventing sexual assault, like any crime, is about making sure people know what warning signs to look for, how to de-escalate situations, and how to respond when a crime has taken place. Just as many men are clueless about this as women.

    [–]insertusPb [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    If worrying about being labeled MRA is a concern for someone they've likely got bigger issues to deal with.

    Either a person is for gender equality it their not. If the focus is on the label there's structural problems in the conversation.

    [–]HerbaciousTea 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

    The uni I attended had all the first years attend a presentation by fellow students about consent during the first semester, and was handled very well. They also had the local police chief come in and explain the legal semantics and punishment so no one was foggy about the lines, and she was very thorough and took anonymous written questions after her spiel.

    Covering both the social and legal bases like that from people students are going to acknowledge (fellow students and actual badge carrying authorities), with an open, non-aggressive attitude, was the best way I've seen it handled.

    [–]Elephantkick [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Just call the class "Consent 101" and make it mandatory for boys and girls so everyone is on the same page.

    And for the love of god don't demonize one gender in it. That's a surefire way to make them tune out and hate you.

    [–]LtRalph 52ポイント53ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Thats brilliant... 'avoid false accusations' class would be well attended, doesn't carry the overt accusing and demeaning overtone of 'teach men not to rape', would clarify legal boundaries, and opens up the discussion to the other half of the problem.
    well done.

    [–]insertusPb [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    I find it sad that we need to get some men on board the not raping cause by altering the terminology. Still, it's legitimately a valid point that changing the "packaging" would likely improve involvement with some men.

    コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

      [–]Diz-Rittle 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

      To enroll at UCF we needed to do an anti-rape module online which covered all of the aspects about aquantiance rape and rape in general. Then during orientation the staff put on a rape awareness skit about the consequences. I am male and the anti-rape programming was one of the most valuable college expireances we had. Really eye opening and helps the student body become more aware.

      [–]DocWookieChris 19ポイント20ポイント  (57子コメント)

      The tips would be: don't coerce, or be pushy, don't sleep with a girl who is might be to drunk to remember, Make sure you know she really wants it to, and is very willingly participating. Let her take her own clothes off. ask 'do you want me to' first.

      And are any of those limited to the experience of a woman?

      I don't think the whole "don't teach people to rape" thing will help in the long run. I think this approach of "teach people how to protect themselves" is the best way to stop it from ever happening.

      Has any "teach men not to rape" ever gotten such a drastic reduction on "campus assaults" as this program states it has?

      It's funny though when you think about it. This whole push for "teach men not to rape" has gotten push back from men because it paints all men as rapists. Women don't like the "teach women to protect themselves" because it comes off as blaming the victim, but if it was really about the victims, wouldn't we go with the program that leads to the smallest amount of victims?

      [–]herrsmith 25ポイント26ポイント  (36子コメント)

      A poster campaign has shown a 10% reduction in reported rapes. A poster campaign! Imagine an actual class about what is and isn't consent. It seems that, right now, we could use both classes, or maybe we combine everybody into once class that teaches what consent is, how to not give consent, and how to react when consent isn't given. It teaches potential rapists that they are going to be committing rapes. Apparently, in a UK study that my weak google-fu is having trouble finding, 48% of men aged 18 - 25 didn't think it was rape if a woman was too drunk to know what was going on. These people aren't setting out to have sex without consent, they just don't know that's what they're doing. Sure, there will still be rapists, because some people are always going to do terrible things, but it's way too prevalent right now.

      [–]ohdatsrite 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Unfortunately, there's is no way to attribute that 10% to the campaign. Sexual assaults rose in 2010 and fell in 2011 for many other districts without the banner. It even happened around the US.

      I personally don't think singling out one gender or the other is viable long term solution.

      [–]ShtLordPrime [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

      Rape and sexual assault, like all violent crimes, has been plummeting an average of 8-10% a year every year since the 80s. I wish more people would appreciate that.

      [–]DocWookieChris 17ポイント18ポイント  (31子コメント)

      I am all for a program on teaching people about consent. Hell, make it part of health education when kids are in middle/high school. But that doesn't mean it should be limited to men or that we can't also teach everyone on how to help protect themselves from potentially being a victim.

      [–]herrsmith 1ポイント2ポイント  (30子コメント)

      I think the goal right now is to focus where the majority of the issue is, and right now, I believe that most rapes are performed by men and most of the victims are women (correct me if I'm wrong here). Similarly, I don't think there needs to be a lot of focus on violent, stranger rape, because I don't believe that is more than a small percentage of rapes committed (don't have any numbers and am too lazy to look them up, so maybe this, too, is incorrect). Let's tackle the biggest problem, then move onto the other ones. To that end, maybe we should be teaching men that they are far more likely to be a perpetrator than a victim, even with the best intentions (again, correct me if I'm wrong). I think that can be accomplished without the message of all men are rapists, which might be alienating and not as effective as well as being untrue.

      All in all, I think the general western relationship with sex is fairly unhealthy. Everyone can benefit by having a healthier one, not just as relates to consent, but with many other aspects. But as I said earlier, let's focus on the biggest issue facing us right now, which is a culture that doesn't know what consent is and is too embarrassed to object when there isn't consent.

      [–]openmindedidiot 17ポイント18ポイント  (28子コメント)

      (correct me if I'm wrong here)

      You're right, but that is due to the definition of rape. In most jurisdictions a woman forcing a man to have sex with her is not legally rape.

      Sexual assaults in general are pretty close. I for one would like to see prevention of all types of sexual assault.

      See: http://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers/

      maybe we should be teaching men that they are far more likely to be a perpetrator than a victim

      And how should that make the male victims of sexual assault (almost as many as female victims) feel?

      [–]DocWookieChris 4ポイント5ポイント  (16子コメント)

      There was a thread that made the front page of this subreddit last year (can't find it now- deleted maybe?) that had statistics that claimed that 40%+ of males were victims of sexual assault once you remove criteria such as "rape must involve penetration with a penis."

      [–]openmindedidiot 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

      statistics that claimed that 40%+ of males were victims of sexual assault

      I think it was the other way around. The studies typically find ~40% of sexual assault victims are male, not that ~40% of males have been sexually assaulted.

      [–][削除されました]  (14子コメント)

      [deleted]

        [–]DocWookieChris 10ポイント11ポイント  (13子コメント)

        I'm referring to the fact most statistics don't qualify "made to penetrate" as rape. Maybe you would consider that a "looser definition" but for me I consider sex without consent to be rape. Maybe it's just me though.

        コメントをもっと表示する (11 返事)

          [–]klabob [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          I believe that most rapes are performed by men and most of the victims are women

          At least in the US, most rape is men on men. These rape mostly happen in prison, so usually people ignore them.

          But in any case, there should be classes in high school titled; What is consent and what is a secual assault. It's neutral, it's not aggressive towards a gender and won't alleniate anyone from the get go. Then you can have a healthy discussion about what to do and what not to do.

          [–]Elephantkick [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          If you examine at the fluctuation in rates of sexual violence in the years prior to the campaign it becomes clear that the poster campaign had zero effect.

          I mean besides insulting and shaming an entire gender.

          [–]blueXcat 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

          There will always be people with mental health issues or people who don't have the capacity to understand what they do.

          I prefer protecting myself from assholes rapists, and the kind of people who can't be teached because they don't have the capacity to understand it

          [–]DocWookieChris 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

          I'm not sure if your trying to agree or disagree with me? I am for both teaching consent to teenagers as part of sex education in school, but also we need to teach people how to protect themselves because there will always be bad people out there.

          [–]blueXcat 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

          I wanted to add to what you were saying :) Many feminists blogs say its bad to teach to protect ourselves because it's like saying it's our fault and men can't control themselves. The majority is in control of what they do, but there always be sick people.

          [–]DocWookieChris 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Ah, gotcha. I understand what the "feminists blogs" are trying to say, and they are supposedly looking out for the victims, but even with "teach men to not rape" we are shifting blame to someone, and in this case we are telling men that they are too stupid to know not to rape someone. Ultimately,shouldn't we do what is best for the victims? And if it winds up being a combination of both, by teaching what consent is/isnt AND how to protect yourself is the best way to lower the numbers, then shouldn't we do exactly that?

          [–]openmindedidiot 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

          There will always be people with mental health issues or people who don't have the capacity to understand what they do.

          This is another area I don't feel like our youth is being educated. Someone explaining personality disorders to me probably would have prevented all of the sexual violence in my life.

          [–]lets_mosey_on 11ポイント12ポイント  (9子コメント)

          See, the intention of all involved is to teach men about consent, and to stop acting like male sexuality is a predatory sport. Coercion, and manipulation are accepted as 'legit techniques' far too often. and rarely is the line ever drawn. Too many young guys see a really drunk girl in their bed as an opportunity. Not a potential crime scene.

          I think the reason I , personally, don't like the focusing solely on defensive techniques, is because it implies rape is inevitable, rapists are everywhere waiting to get you, and that there is nothing anyone can do about it.

          Anyway, sorry for using gendered language, when its an article about women protecting themselves, posted on a sub intended for women perspectives, I can forget.

          [–]DocWookieChris 16ポイント17ポイント  (8子コメント)

          But, according to RAINN's own statistics, women aren't being raped by these random men they are finding at parties who are taking advantage of them; but rather close people to them in their loves, and likely someone they consider a friend or even already intimate with.

          [–]lets_mosey_on 3ポイント4ポイント  (7子コメント)

          I'm aware, but most people are at party's or clubs with people they know. Alcohol is very often a factor, and you are much more likely to willingly go home with, or get into the bed of someone you think you can trust.- acquaintance, friend, colleague, relation..

          That's what happened to my friend - hanging out with friends and acquaintances - too much to drink, went to bed to sleep it off.

          [–]DocWookieChris 11ポイント12ポイント  (6子コメント)

          Your example would have been solved with a program that teaches people how to drink responsibly, not by a program that teaches men to "stop acting like male sexuality is a predatory sport."

          But of course, telling people to watch how much they drink is blaming the victim.

          [–]lets_mosey_on 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

          Only if your only saying it to women (or potential victims).

          Last time I told a guy he should avoid getting black out drunk because he's putting himself in danger, he laughed in my face and said 'its not like anyone's going to rape me!'

          [–]DocWookieChris 13ポイント14ポイント  (3子コメント)

          Because no one thinks they can do something they will later regret while they are drunk until they've done it.

          Take the "men shouldn't rape" discussion and change it to "teach people what is and isn't consent."

          Take the "women should watch how much alcohol they drink" discussion and change it to "teach people the dangers of alcohol and warning signs of someone who has had to much to drink."

          As someone who was an RA at university that was well known for its parties, I am too well familiar with how many people don't know how to drink responsibly and then do things they would never have done sober. I feel bad writing them up for things that winded up getting them kicked out of school, but they decided to drink too much and can only blame themselves in the long run.

          [–]Byzantine279 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Because he naturally doesn't believe he is going to rape someone when drunk, and education probably won't fix it, because the "I wouldn't do that!" is strong.

          [–]Dogalicious 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

          Its good to have practical guidelines, stipulating 'let her take her own clothes off' as an example....some of hottest sex you ever have is when you race to strip each other. Yes its complicated and there are insidious % or seek to take advantage wherever they can based on whatever angle exists for them to leverage. 'You have the best insight into you'. Just strive to honest, self aware and mindful of a situation where complications or harm might arise. You're advances can NEVER be predicated by 'can I get away with this' but always with - is this definitely something I know she want?, is she comfortable with me and ready for this?

          [–]DocWookieChris 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

          While I agree you should not have sex with someone who can't take off their own clothes if they were trying, it shouldn't be a stipulation, especially if they ask you to or give positive feedback when you do undress them.

          IMO, the type of person who is thinking "can i get away with this.." is beyond the hopes of being taught what consent is and isn't and your best hope of not being a victim is to be aware of warning signs and not to let yourself become helpless in a unsafe situation.

          [–]Dogalicious 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Totally agree. Girls in particular are vulnerable to that whole 'im young, it could be cool (party/social event), what's the worst that could happen. The worst that can happen is a young vulnerable female to run with 'whats the worst that could happen' basis for getting outside her comfort zone.

          [–]DocWookieChris 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

          The worst for me as an RA in college was the females who drank in packs. They believed themselves invincible because they thought their friends had their backs and would purposely get aggressive with others because "no one would hit a girl."

          [–]gimmeabreaklady 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

          From the article:

          Other programs have focused on men's behavior, Senn said, but only a few high school programs have shown positive results and no research so far has shown that educating students about consent decreases sexual assault.

          It's possible the sample size has been too small, though. Hopefully expanding such programs will reap more results.

          [–]Byzantine279 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

          Teaching men not to rape doesn't work because the people who can be taught already have been and so won't do it to begin with.

          [–]lewy01 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

          And it's offensive, it wouldn't be socially exceptable to tell brown people not to become suicide bombers but telling half the worlds population rape = bad is just fine and dandy

          [–]Karvidich 6ポイント7ポイント  (9子コメント)

          Don't coerce?

          I'm quite sure that virtually all men are aware that sex via force or threats is rape.

          [–]lets_mosey_on 6ポイント7ポイント  (7子コメント)

          A huge amount of Red Pill ideas are coercion.

          like: "keep asking and touching her until she gives up resisting"

          [–]Karvidich 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

          Possibly. Depends on the severity, and 'not resisting' is not the same thing as consent. If someone affirmatively agrees (consents), then repeated asking would not usually amount to coercion. Not unless it causes the person to reasonably fear for their safety.

          Coercion is not a synonym for simple everyday social pressures. Just as begging someone to go see a movie with you isn't kidnapping, begging someone to have sex with you isn't rape.

          [–]SnailForceWinds 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

          You're right, but the way many people use coercion, it means convincing. It really means something like your boss using his power over you to make you do something, sexual or otherwise.

          [–]CheesyWeiner 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          So not something that we need to teach everyone because we all already know that is wrong. It's not like I'm going to meet a girl and then accidently coerce her thinking it's fine.

          The people who do it don't care that it's wrong and do it anyway.

          [–]SaitoHawkeye [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          "keep asking and touching her until she gives up resisting"

          Coercion is not a synonym for simple everyday social pressures.

          I don't think this qualifies as "everyday social pressures," dude.

          Unless you're an inspiring rapist.

          [–]yangtastic [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

          Wait, so asking is coercion? Asking once surely isn't, right? So... How many times do you have to ask for it to be coercion?

          [–]lurkmode_off [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          Anything after the first "no" is definitely venturing into creeper territory.

          [–]powerkick 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Lol go tell that to redpillers.

          [–]ReallySeriouslyNow 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

          "Teach people not to rape" shouldn't be controversial since it's the rapists actions that are the problem. I realize not everyone is a potential rapist, not everyone needs that education and that the education shouldn't be geared toward men only, but that doesn't change the fact that it is the actions of the rapist that need attention. And considering how many things people don't consider rape that are in fact rape and how many people have the attitude he or she deserved it because of clothing choices, level of intoxication, or because they were mean, or whatever, education seems sorely needed.

          I'm all for learning to protect myself from any kind of predator or potential crime, but that does little to nothing, in my opinion, to change the real problems, the mindset of the perpetrator who will likely just go on to victimize someone else.

          [–]Elephantkick [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          According to the leading organization combatting rape and sexual assault the entire "teach people not to rape" strategy isn't just misguided and ineffective, but it actually makes it harder to stop sexual violence. The tiny minority actually going out and raping other people already know it is wrong. They just don't care.

          https://rainn.org/images/03-2014/WH-Task-Force-RAINN-Recommendations.pdf

          [–]CheesyWeiner 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

          You know who believes that some one deserved to be raped because of their clothing choices, because they were mean, or drunk?

          Rapists

          It's not like they don't know that it's wrong. They know, they're just terrible people.

          Why don't we just teach people not to murder while we're at it?

          [–]fuckingwhiteys 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Meanwhile lets get all them japanese people into these camps, because you know, some of them might be terrorists or spies.

          [–]darklord0211 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

          You forgot "Video tape her saying she consents to sex" and "get a contract about her consent and get her to sign it."

          [–]LasagnaPawner [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          from what I understand, teaching bystander intervention has the best effectiveness

          [–]cyber_dildonics 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

          ye. turns out anti-rape campaigns aimed at potential rapists lower sexual assaults as well.

          [–]Byzantine279 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

          Sadly they are conflating a drop that occurred in multiple districts many of which did not have the posters to the posters. It would be nice to see an actual study on these things, but crime has an unfortunate habit of trending making the actual effect of any program difficult to determine.

          [–]cyber_dildonics [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

          interesting. have a link to that? I know they focused the campaign specifically in districts with the highest numbers of sexual assault, so I assume they paid special attention to those districts at the end of the year.

          for instance, the West End (district 1) was one of the districts with a high sexual assault rate. it showed a 7.7% decrease in sexual offences between 2010 and 2011--the time frame of the first campaign.

          [–]Byzantine279 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          Page 16 of this: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2012001/article/11692-eng.pdf Says there was an overall downtrend in the entire country of 3%, while the greatest decrease was in aggravated sexual assault of 23%.

          I'm not saying the powers did not help, merely that "more research is needed" before any conclusion can be come to. I suspect there is a difference, but that it is relatively small since most people know not to commit crimes without being reminded, and most people who need to be reminded don't care.

          [–]meowmixxed [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          don't coerce

          don't sleep with a girl who is might be to drunk to remember,

          Make sure you know she really wants it to, and is very willingly participating.

          Um NONE of those things would be a false allegation. That would be coercive sex aka rape.

          [–]NotQuiteStupid -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Indeed. I heartily recommend to those wishing to set up an anti-rape program, reading Captain Awkward's #322 & #323. There's a long-winded comment about 5 posts in which has The Question.

          Every single time I've shown that to people (male or female) it sinks in a lot better than without.

          [–]MindsetRoulette [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          I think its good they at least had a program on acknowledging rape isn't just strangers in an alley. Too much 'rape prevention' is basically 'pepper spray'.

          The only few things that bother me about the article.

          They point out to say is not about rape avoidance to put victim behaviors into focus. Yet, most of their examples were about situational awareness. Which is a important skill for anyone and very successful in victim prevention.

          But there is so much controversy over 'teach men not to rape'.

          There have ban many cases of reported serial rapists and there aren't really any guys on the fence about whether it's right or wrong. If we could figure out how to stop someone from being an asshole when they really enjoy being an asshole, we would solve a lot of problems. Like any crime, it's sadly down to prevention and reporting as best we can. I'd like more of a "teach men and women to spot the asshole" and other prevention based social changes.

          The tips would be: don't coerce, or be pushy, don't sleep with a girl who is might be to drunk to remember, Make sure you know she really wants it to, and is very willingly participating. Let her take her own clothes off. ask 'do you want me to' first.

          Are we not assuming women are fully grown functional adults? I mean I get what your saying in a way, but this really makes woman look like children. Incapable of saying no, making their own choices, or relying on a designated adult. Women are just as capable and willing to make some drunken mistakes as men, and that's when things get into some serious grey area. Thank you drinking culture, responsible drinking would be the single most effective rape preventive measurement. Maybe we need a public "friends don't let friends drink and Sex" campaign.

          コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

            [–]Horrible-Human [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            Only 22 young women need to receive the program for one completed rape to be averted

            jesus fuck, statistics can get weird

            [–]bookishboy [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

            This is interesting but anti-rape programs are a no-lose prospect from the perspective of those in the advocacy sector.

            • If the number of reported rapes goes down following an education program, it will be reported as a success "because there are now fewer rapes as a result of our work".

            • If the number of reported rapes goes up following an education program, it will be reported as a success "because more victims now feel comfortable coming forward.... it's not that more rapes are happening, it's that our program convinced silent victims to speak up."

            [–]Elephantkick [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            All these people are doing is trying to create and sustain employment for themselves. They aren't actually helping to stop sexual violence.

            [–]Dogalicious 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I think this stuff should form core syllabus for every school kid...I don't think its an overstatement to say at the earliest points the discussion commences in schools the nature of interpersonal dynamics and how people should regard others and conduct themselves is even 'more relevant' to child's tool kit and outlook than what a fallopian tube. Yes, some kids will need that specific knowledge at some point and should be provided but 'rules of engagement' per se apply to 'every kid'

            [–]Mortalities [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            Reading the comments has me a little upset. Both men AND women are both capable of rape. It shouldn't be used as a gender exclusive term unlike what I'm seeing in the comments. This ideology of how men are the only ones who rape is the reason why male rape victims are afraid to come out and actually do something about it.

            [–]gimmeabreaklady [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

            "The main problem with a preventive approach that is focused on potential victims of sexual assault is that it puts the responsibility for preventing the assault on the potential victim, and does not acknowledge the role that potential perpetrators and the larger community play," Basile said.

            I've never understood this argument. Telling drivers to check their mirrors doesn't make them responsible for not getting rear-ended. Advice doesn't imply obligation. If others are making that assumption, that's a reason to educate them more, not to educate those most at risk less.

            [–]meowmixxed [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

            I think the main difference here is that rape victims are constantly told it's their fault: you were dressed a certain way, you were drinking, you should have known better, you're a slut, you're gay for not liking it, how could you let a woman do this to you, etc.

            So sometimes prevention based efforts that focus on risk reduction can be victim blaming. But you can still do risk reduction in a non-victim blaming environment, by basically being up front that none of these factors cause rape, and no rape is the victim's fault.

            [–]ManonIsland [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            Probably will get be banned:

            This discussion is meaningless without an agreed-upon definition of "rape." The way I read this story is that if women actually verbalize what they really want and stand up for themselves, there is a significant decrease in "regret sex" "rape" allegations.

            So many of these "on campus assaults" are girls who say "well, I didn't feel like I could say no because then he wouldn't like me" or "I didn't really want to, but felt 'pressured' and so didn't say anything" or "he made me feel bad afterwards because he didn't snuggle so I 'felt raped'" or "I realized he was just using me, so wouldnt have agreed to it if I would have known."

            There also needs to be a realistic, honest conversation about behavioral indicators. For instance, this bullshit that if a girl flirts and grinds on a guy at the frat party all night, then follows him up to his room doesn't mean she wants sex.--Unless she says "no", 10/10 guys will interpret this behavior as her wanting sex. The sole purpose of hosting frat parties is to get drunk and laid. If girls don't understand that every guy at the party is looking at her as a potential lay, then she is just not dealing with reality. I am not saying that by going to a frat party a girl is consenting to sex with everyone there. I am just saying people need to be realistic about how their behavior is being interpreted.

            [–]gimmeabreaklady [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            Good point, classes must be carefully designed to avoid judgmental subtexts. But just as many social conservatives claim that sex education and contraceptive access promotes underage sex, many anti-rape activists seem to believe that prevention and self-defense education by its very nature blames victims. The purpose of these programs is to provide information on how to reduce risk factors, not to make demands.

            [–]nyza [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            Link to the actual study?

            [–]absynthe7 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            Let me check the comments, to see if there are actually people who manage to be butt-hurt by the idea of Anti-Rape programs.

            ...Yep. Thanks, Reddit. You guys are swell.

            [–]Victor_Newman- [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

            Alcohol doesn't make you have sex against your will. Drunk actions are sober fantasies.

            [–]meowmixxed [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            Alcohol is the most common date rape drug, aimed at disabling a possible victim.

            [–]Barry_Scotts_Cat [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            I've never really understood the whole "You can't consent while drunk" thing.

            Because surely both partners can't consent?

            [–]♡Kandierter_Holzapfel [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

            And we have a lot of fantasies that we prefer that they stay fantasies

            [–]Morninglow [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            They were covering this story on NPR, a higher up lady in the program, maybe one of the teachers, was being interviewed she essentially made it clear that SHE IS THE FIRST PERSON THAT THIS COURSE BEING 'VICTIM BLAMING' OR PUTTING RESPONSIBILITY ON WOMEN NOT BEING RAPED WOULD OCCUR TO.

            She said the purpose of the course is to arm women with the knowledge to defend themselves and avoid dangerous situations.

            [–]cmclaughlin80 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            Men and Women should be treated exactly the same and it's hard for me to get behind feminism when men are treated horribly in a number or areas.

            1. We get more jail time for the same exact crime. Talk about inequality...

            2. We get put to the slaughter in custody battles REGARDLESS as to who the better parent is.

            Once feminists start ranting about these major injustices above, I'll get behind feminist causes.

            [–]NotACasul [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            Didn't realize rape was something for girls only. TIL

            [–]WayneJetSkii -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

            This is great news... but i feel like that stat is rather dubious b/c of how few assaults actually get reported.

            [–]latche [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

            I am truly glad that this program is effective. But I am frustrated that once again it is the woman's job to avoid or resist sexual assault, with no mention of educating men to not assault them.

            [–]countingcoppers [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            How about educating people? I think consent is an issue both genders are struggling with in today's culture. We should provide anti-rape programs and consent seminars together.

            [–]jaybaird05 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            Who's job would it be avoid or resist an assault? No really though, who's job would it be? If i'm getting mugged i'm not thinking: "damn this guy should really learn not to rob people". I'm thinking: "Fuck...I really should not have left my knife at home".

            Teaching people to defend themselves against attackers is not victim blaming. It's empowerment, at it's finest.

            [–]Onewomanslife -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

            GO "GIRLS!"

            YOU matter.

            コメントをもっと表示する (59 返事)