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The science is settled ... (i.imgur.com)

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[–]fgsgeneg 9ポイント10ポイント  (30子コメント)

Why are you so interested in making sure other people live the life you want them to live and not the life they want to live? Is it because ... FREEDOM? Or does oppressing others somehow make you feel better about yourself?

[–]Ben_Stark 7ポイント8ポイント  (7子コメント)

If Mr. Jenner want's to be called Caitlyn, I will gladly call him Caitlyn. I will not call Caitlyn a woman, because when I take a DNA sample, or look at his bones on an table, I am going to see the genetic markers and the bones of a man.

[–]AtomicU237 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Would you call this woman a man? She's not trans, but she was born with a disease called androgen insensitivity syndrome which gave her XY chromosomes and testes. Despite her XY chromosomes, she developed as a girl. Would you also call her a man?

Plus, you're confusing gender and sex. As silly as it might sound that there are people who identify as the other gender, remember that to them it's very serious. I get that people see trans people and think that they're just being attention seekers or that they're not being serious, but there's a reason why they have the highest suicide rates of anyone in the country and why over 40% of trans people attempt suicide.

[–]thecheddarman1 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Gender is about the brain, not about obviously identifiable features. You aren't looking deep enough. Do some research on the recent scientific views of the cause of people being transgender.

[–]Cemlub -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Mental illness, and the imagination is also about the brain. Just because someone thinks they are something doesn't make it so. Self-identification takes a back seat to science. Don't you believe in science?

[–]AtomicU237 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Except that studies show that a trans person's brain structure resembles the opposite sex. So even though Bruce Jenner was born a man, his brain structure is more like woman's brain, rather than a man's. Plus, stop distorting what scientists actually believe. Ever major body of mental health excerpts in the country recognize gender dysphoria is a real mental illness.

[–]Ben_Stark -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It isn't about features, it's about a feature. A feature called genetics. If you want to convince me that science believes there is a reason I should call Mr. Jenner a female and you want to change my mind you should bring the research or at least unbiased sources to me.

[–]borntoperform -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yep, I'll call him Caitlyn out of respect and love because that's the right thing to do. But I will not call him a woman.

[–]no_harm_no_foul 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Look, it's really simple. If you were to claim the sky is yellow, and insist that everyone else says the sky is yellow, people are going to rebel against your insane idea and they'll say you're nuts even if some people go along with your insane idea and start saying the sky is yellow because they don't want to hurt your precious feelings. The sky is blue. You can deal with reality however you want, but don't try to make the rest of the world accept your insanity as reality.

[–]Ender16 1ポイント2ポイント  (20子コメント)

Yeah I don't understand why this is so important to people.

[–]hayclaylaybaymaysay 8ポイント9ポイント  (16子コメント)

Because I don't want a man sharing an open locker room with my 15 year old daughter.

[–]thecheddarman1 4ポイント5ポイント  (11子コメント)

So you don't want lesbians sharing locker rooms with your 15 year old daughter? And I take it you wouldn't want a gay man to be in an open locker room with you either?

[–]hayclaylaybaymaysay 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

You completely missed the point.

Women are weaker physically then men. By allowing transgender access to women's locker rooms, we are inviting sexual assaults and rapes on our women in the name of political correctness because any man could put on a dress and lipstick, call themselves "transgender" (even if they aren't) and walk in to a women's locker room. That would be a dream come true for rapists.

A gay man in a men's locker room and a lesbian in a women's locker room are totally different scenarios.

[–]KnightOfTeardrops 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

And to commit those rapes they first need a legitimate reason to enter the locker room? That's some law conscious rapists there.

[–]hayclaylaybaymaysay 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

A highschool dipshit kid making $8/hr working at the front desk who has been told to let men wearing dresses into the women's locker room will be a lot less suspicious of anything than if he were told not to let them enter the women's locker room.

Come on, don't you agree that this would be pervert and rapist heaven? It's ridiculous.

[–]KnightOfTeardrops 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Maybe. But i'm not of the opinion that the only thing standing in the way of a rape epidemic, is the fact a man can't enter a locker room in a dress unimpeded. But then again i grew up pretty co-ed.

[–]hayclaylaybaymaysay 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not a rape epidemic, I never said that.

We're not even talking about the fact that for every transgender with a penis who wants to use the women's locker room, there will be hundreds of women who are ALSO paying members at the gym that will feel extremely uncomfortable with a man in their presence. Why do the transgender person's feelings matter more than all of those women's feelings?

Any way you shape this argument, you lose. There is no logical reason to allow a transgender with a penis into a woman's changing area when there is a "Person with a penis" changing area right next door.

[–]thecheddarman1 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sorry, but rape is still illegal, whether it's same sex or in a locker room or not. Do you have any proof that would ever support your claim that this is somehow a scheme that rapists have ever done or would be a genuine method for a rapist? No, you don't.

This point you've made here genuinely disgusts me.

[–]no_harm_no_foul 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

That ship has sailed, and has little if anything to do with his statement. Stop trying to put words in his mouth.

[–]thecheddarman1 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You can't honestly say that it wasn't implied that he was talking about sexuality when he referred to locker rooms and his 15 year old daughter.

[–]Cemlub -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't see what sexual orientation has to do with this. Science tells us if someone is male or female. Gender assigned locker rooms has nothing to do with sexual orientation.

[–]thecheddarman1 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

It clearly had everything to do with it. The rather obvious implied response was that he doesn't want a man in his daughters locker room because he will be able to see her naked.

[–]hayclaylaybaymaysay 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, the implied response was that because nature has determined that men are physically stronger than women, it is dangerous to allow male perverts and rapists access to women's locker rooms.

Also, the number of women who would feel extremely uncomfortable with a penis in their locker room is FAR larger than the one man who wants to use the opposite sex's locker room. WHy does his opinion and desires outweigh those of the hundreds of women members at the gym?

[–]Ender16 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Personally I don't think it should be allowed or catered to until they are at least 18, many liberals will condemn me but your point is valid.

[–]hayclaylaybaymaysay 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't actually have a 15 year old daughter, but I think my point stands. It does still hit close to home with me because my first daughter is on the way.

Imagine the pandora's box we'd be opening for women in our country. Any man could put on a dress and lipstick and walk into a women's locker room/bathroom any time they chose to, where no security is present. We need to do better than that for our women.

[–]Ender16 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

So what is the answer Is Your opinion?

Cuz idk. Yeah statistically there are more women than transgenders by a long shot but we are not a hive organism. We are all individuals and to put someone in a situation where they can't be themselves isn't right either.

I believe in individualism over all. And while you can't cater to every single person in regards to running a country there has to be a solution that makes both happy

[–]hayclaylaybaymaysay -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

The solution is, "Dress like a woman all you want but use the men's locker room. If that makes you uncomfortable, then fucking deal with it. We're not here to coddle you and protect your delicate little feelings. People born with penises get changed in that room, and people born with vaginas get changed in this room. A woman's right to safety and privacy is equally as important as your desire to dress like a woman."

[–]live9free1or1die 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Because if we can pretend to be black we can all take advantage of affirmative action. Sounds like fun actually.

[–]Ender16 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

So get rid of affirmative action. It's a terrible racist policy proper unarmed by the idea that A. The white man needs to pay retribution. And B. That black people and Latinos are inferior to whites snd Asians.