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World Hasn’t Had So Many Refugees Since 1945, Report Says (bloomberg.com)

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[–]slightlights 50ポイント51ポイント  (24子コメント)

If you guys actually read the article, you'll find out that the high number of refugees is not because there are simply more people, or because of people migrating to Europe and falsifying refugee status, but because of the terrible wars ravaging the Middle East, especially Syria. Obviously a lot of this is because of ISIS.

[–]temp44456 25ポイント26ポイント  (11子コメント)

Also there are like 5 million fake refugees that wouldn't be considered refugees if they were not from one particular conflict. Because they were born where they reside, not displaced. See UNRWA.

[–]Thetruemiddlefinger 2ポイント3ポイント  (10子コメント)

Could you clarify. I'm having trouble understanding your point.

[–]temp44456 25ポイント26ポイント  (9子コメント)

Palestinian refugees pass their refugee status to their children, that's why their number grows all the time. Other people that were born to refugee parents usually get citizenship in their host countries, but Palestinians don't get citizenship. This is done by Arab countries to perpetuate the refugee problem and use it as a political tool.

[–]Slyndrr 17ポイント18ポイント  (3子コメント)

And their grandchildren and great grandchildren. This has been going on since the Israeli independence war in '48 - that is why the number is so very big.

[–]Shirinator 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

And they have to live in camps. They are used like cattle for politcal ganes.

[–]Slyndrr 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Some camps are worse than others. Jordan treats their Palestinians moderately well. The others.. not so much. :(

[–]portnoyskvetch 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Yarmouk camp in Syria is a genuine tragedy and a good cause for international intervention.

Only Jordan (where the royals have Palestinian blood and nearly half the population is Palestinian) treats the Palestinians well.

[–]Thetruemiddlefinger 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ah I see. Thanks for the clarification.

[–]flying87 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

This is the only refugee group in history that has been allowed to do this, and legally still be defined as refugee.

[–]temp44456 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

In 1000 years half of the human race will get welfare from UNRWA

[–]LoamPigeon 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

There are some smaller populations elsewhere that fit into this category - India, for instance, does not provide a pathway to citizenship for all refugee groups, so there are some people born there as refugees with no other state.

[–]0l01o1ol0 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Other people that were born to refugee parents usually get citizenship in their host countries, but Palestinians don't get citizenship. This is done by Arab countries to perpetuate the refugee problem and use it as a political tool.

Uhhhhh no. Most of the world does not give citizenship to refugee children born within their borders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli

[–]arrogantfool 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

And everyone is so balless to actually attack ISIS. So, this will keep happening.

[–]djlewt 1ポイント2ポイント  (9子コメント)

..and ISIS is because we turned a functional government, albeit one with a major dick at the helm, into a free-for-all. Remember Iraq? Now you know where ISIS came from.

[–]apmechev 13ポイント14ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's a lose lose, same with Qaddafi. 

 >"Why didn't NATO intervene, look at Qaddafi killing thousands of civilians"

 >"Why did NATO intervene, look at the shitstrom in Libya now."

Ditto Rwanda, Somalia, Iraq, etc

[–]three-two-one-zero 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

It was known that interventions would make the situation significantly worse. 22 years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8MePwb6TEk

[–]FuzzyNutt [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Wonder what changed his mind and made him think it was a good idea.

[–]SoldierOf4Chan -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

ISIS is just the proxy army of Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Syria. It exists to provide plausible deniability for these countries so that it doesn't seem like they've declared war.

[–]koerdinator -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Except that ISIS started in Syria as an offshoot from Al-Queda in Iraq, educate yourself. Anything better than the Anfal campaign!

[–]teh_fizz -5ポイント-4ポイント  (2子コメント)

We didn't do jack shit. That dick at the helm started it and we kept adding fuel to the fire.

[–]FuzzyNutt [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

This is recent history you have no excuse for no knowing it.

[–]teh_fizz [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah and I am Syrian and know his history as I was there when he came to power. What's your point? He started the brutality and then ISIS joined it from the other side. Both sides are guilty.

[–]CCM4Life 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because of the United States you mean.

[–]Kistoul 70ポイント71ポイント  (13子コメント)

The world hasn't had a big of a population since ever, either.

[–]pfods 23ポイント24ポイント  (3子コメント)

you do know there is a difference between a raw number and a per capita number right? the article, in the first paragraph makes it clear it's talking about per capita.

[–]SD49235 22ポイント23ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, it gave the figure both as a raw number and a per capita number. The article doesn't make clear whether it's comparing over time in terms of raw number or per capita number. So go to the source material.

http://economicsandpeace.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Global-Peace-Index-Report-2015_0.pdf

The deterioration in the indicators measuring the number of refugees and IDPs and the impact of terrorism is most concerning. The latest UNHCR estimates indicate that more than 50 million people are now either refugees or internally displaced because of conflict and violence, which is the highest number since the end of the Second World War

It's talking about a raw number. Not a per capita number.

[–]TodayILearnedAThing [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I guess you stopped at the first paragraph. Read the source material.

[–]machinedog 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

This is a good point which may probably be overlooked, however it is sad because I feel the number shouldn't have risen either.

[–]CastorTrollux -4ポイント-3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Per capita.

[–]SD49235 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Except it's not talking about a per capita number if you look at the report.

http://economicsandpeace.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Global-Peace-Index-Report-2015_0.pdf

The deterioration in the indicators measuring the number of refugees and IDPs and the impact of terrorism is most concerning. The latest UNHCR estimates indicate that more than 50 million people are now either refugees or internally displaced because of conflict and violence, which is the highest number since the end of the Second World War

[–]soopsoopa [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

1804 - 1 billion

1927 - 2

1959 - 3

1974 - 4

1984 - 5

1999 - 6

2011 - 7

2026 - 8

2042 - 9

[–]DubhGrian -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

It is going to get worse too :D

[–]HyperionMoon 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Calm down Schopenhauer.

[–]Sinfonietta_ -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's also old news, this has been the case for over a year now, even before ISIS reared its ugly head.

[–]cannedsunshine 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Six months in 2015 still remain. I refuse to speculate just how high that total will get by the end of the year.

[–]Radeh 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Just wait until the amount of climate refugees goes up even more...especially given water shortages are on the rise too.

The "climate change" or "war XYZ" doesn't affect me approach doesn't work because even if it doesn't affect you directly, all those refugees ultimately will.

[–]dblmjr_loser 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Then don't let them in becomes quite a valid solution: "so you're saying either me and my family go on water rations or we just shut the gate?" It'll be the easiest decision ever made.

[–]FredeFuppe 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

That is probably because in 1945 the world population was around 2 billion people. Today its around 7 billion. There are more refugees, because there are more people.

[–]gogis79 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Title imply that 45 had more refugees...

[–]ReiMurasame 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Most from North Africa/ME. When a country's government falls it is thrown into chaos. The bulk of the civilian population wants only to survive the chaos. They want nothing to do with the conflict.

Libya is the most blatant example of a once stable country quickly sliding into chaos, with 500,000 waiting to cross over into Italy. Now extrapolate that to an entire region. There are very active conflicts in Libya, Sudan, Somalia, Northern Nigeria, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, parts of Pakistan etc and all at the same time. This encompasses up to 200 million people. If just 30% manage or attempt to flee, that's approaching 70 million internal and external refugees as cited in the article, from the aforementioned conflict zones alone.

[–]temp44456 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

I wonder what do all these places have in common

[–]ReiMurasame 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

These chaps: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salafi_movement

With the Saudi-Based Wahhabist variant being most prevalent when it comes to international Jihad.

Coupled with these chaps:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Armed_Forces

Who were most prevalent in the practical toppling of Saddam and Gaddafi, and who have contributed hugely to the Syrian Civil War; leading to a regional vacuum and ensuing spread of the Jihadist ideology mentioned above.

[–]PhilosopherBat 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

They are all poorly governed, and the average person living in those countries live in poverty.

[–]DrBoomkin 11ポイント12ポイント  (7子コメント)

That's because economic migrants who want to immigrate to Europe call themselves "refugees", and are given citizenship.

[–]mynjo 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

Do you have any evidence to support the assertion that the majority of these people are economic migrants as opposed to fleeing war zones.

[–]myndzha 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

iirc there was highly rated /r/worldnews post few days back from french authorities telling EU that its getting out of control and in that report they did state themselves that majority, in fact, are economic migrants trying to pass off as refugees. id find the link but i have to go irl.

[–]mynjo -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Id like to see the data that supports that conclusion.

[–]myndzha 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

this is a similar article, not the exact one as i, again, dont have the time to find the exact one but you can see them mentioning "actual refugees" and other reasons such as avoiding military service and so on. bottom line it makes sense to want to move out of a worse place to a better place. also i think a lot of real refugees might be too misplaced out of their lives to even try to get a refuge in a different country.

[–]temp44456 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

The boat migrants have to pay a few thousand bucks to smugglers, many real refugees don't have this money

[–]machinedog -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Really, they're not given citizenship. You can complain, and I don't disagree with you on your first point really, but don't say things that aren't true.

[–]dumbdumbdubmmy 6ポイント7ポイント  (19子コメント)

Well yeah, WW3 is in it's first stages.

[–]WalrusKaput 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's a piecemeal piece of shit war

[–]n10w4 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's malingerer, this one

[–]BeastmanBob 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I say bring out the big cannons and make it a little more interesting

[–]The_Profit_ 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

so edgy lol

[–]The_Norse_Gods -1ポイント0ポイント  (13子コメント)

Yeah no its not. When 10s of millions have die then its WW3.

[–]dr_walrus 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Still not

[–]pokeyday15 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think everybody will know when WWIII has started.

[–]Lost_and_Abandoned 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just randomly adding in: in some places, people consider the Cold War WWIII. Sure, the U.S. and the never exchanged blows, but their ideological differences manifested itself in wars such as the Korea War, Vietnam War, Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, the Angolan War, the Cuban Revolution, et cetera.

[–]marklar4201 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Or they won't because it will be over in 30 seconds.

A war like that is unlikely though IMO. Frighteningly possible, but still unlikely. War is changing and the world is changing with it.

[–]flintyeye 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

The question isn't has the war happened, it's are we sitting on a powder keg waiting for Archduke Franz Ferdinand to be assassinated.

[–]Irishman318 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

Yeah, no.

The nature of the world nowadays basically ensures peace in our time, at least on a global scale. This is because of globalization and international markets being intertwined through several corporations rooted in them. Between all of the major powers of the world, there's too much to lose, both economically and culturally.

[–]SacredBandofThebes 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

Not that I disagree but the same argument was used before WW1

[–]lolwatman 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maybe the same argument was used 100 years ago but globalization has increased in the magnitudes since. Do you see all the twitter/tumblr users outraged by tshirts and video games alone? Any kind of "world war" would probably implode the internet.

[–]MaTrIx4057 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Well nuclear did not exist back in WW1 and nuclear is the only reason WW3 hasn't happened since. If nuclear didn't get invented when it did then WW3 most likely would have happened 20-30 years after WW2 ended.

[–]arrogantfool -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

EVERYONE has nuclear weapons now. When everyone has nukes no one has nukes.

[–]aw177 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly. So the nation powers of the world are relatively kept in check.

[–]Faoeoa 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

/r/panichistory

[–]flipdark95 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's extremely unlikely to break out.

This is the first time in history we actually have a stabilizing international framework that encourages cooperation and negotiation instead of military force from the vast majority of the international community.

It's a little thing called the UN.

[–]Learfz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

And has been since 1945.

[–]EuchridEucrow 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why, what happened in 1945?

...oh...

[–]Webo_ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is this % of population or raw numbers? Because the population is much larger than it was in 1945

[–]Nearishtoboston [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well as its only going to get worse the wallet will turn out to not be a bottomless pit . Then things get bad

[–]norsesforcourses [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's interesting that no one in the comments has yet thought to ask whether it's a reasonable expectation for number of refugees to scale linearly with population. Maybe it just doesn't work like that. Maybe we're actually in extremistan here.

[–]Tz0pp33 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

the reasons are not the same as in 1945

[–]Balrogic3 -5ポイント-4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah, a completely different Semitic people is being massacred and maimed this time. Totes diff. Totes. I mean, it's one thing if it's Jews being rounded up and executed as part of a political campaign of violent dreams of empire and something else entirely if it's a bunch of Muslims being rounded up and executed as part of a political campaign of violent dreams of empire.

Instead of NAZI we have ISIS. Huge difference these days.

[–]Tz0pp33 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

you missed the point

[–]Balrogic3 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

What's the point, 1945 was post-war refugees while 2015 is ongoing-war refugees?

[–]Mr_P_Pui 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

We're practically already in a world war. The refugees are running from local wars and just a question of time before everyone gets drawn in.

These are just the early symptoms.

[–]Violets-Are-Blue -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

We got somethin' we both know it
We don't talk too much about it
Ain't no real big secret all the same
Somehow we get around it

[–]jerkerino -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

"world hasn´t had so many people living since 1945, your eyes say"

[–]NorthMike -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Based on % or total? If it does not reflect change in % in line with population growth then its merely a dishonest piece of propaganda.

[–][deleted] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

All part of the plan for global governance.