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Admin Inside/u/Deimorz on "counter-measures" (us.reddit.com)

go1dfishSHADOWBANNED for criticising Pao が 投稿

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[–]go1dfishSHADOWBANNED for criticising Pao[S] 6ポイント7ポイント  (25子コメント)

/u/Deimorz should know as well as anyone that the only necessary countermeasures are the crazy number of shadow bans (you guys even locked me out of my account rather than tell me what I was doing wrong TRANSPARENCY!) yesterday combined with the arbitrary default subreddit selection. Picked for maximum political correctness and subservience to reddit's new ideals.

Even when /r/all was all Pao/Fat hate all the time the defaults were blissfully unaware of any problem at all.

[–]Deimorz 1ポイント2ポイント  (24子コメント)

Sorry, not actually the reality of the situation. Here, I just went to a random one of the "uprising subreddits", and picked a post that I think you would have wanted voted up that already did decently in terms of votes, this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/PaoMustResign/comments/39n7iy/today_ellen_paos_attorney_filed_a_motion_stating/

Total number of shadowbanned users that voted on it: 4. There was one other person that's trying to use 10 accounts that are all banned, but we won't count those because that's just blatant cheating. So disregarding those, not even 1% of the people that voted on it are banned. Not even a slightly significant effect on the score.

Move on with your life, go1dfish. You're a smart guy that's really good at figuring out novel solutions to things, and it makes me sad to see you putting that level of drive into this stuff. reddit isn't actually the place you wish it was, and the methods you keep using aren't going to convince anyone to change. PM me if you want to talk sometime, I'm honestly kind of worried about you lately.

[–]CuilRunnings 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

it makes me sad to see you putting that level of drive into this stuff.

To be honest, it makes me really sad that your professional life is being built on silencing voices and removing discussion. How many different tools and powers have you personally created to give unaccountable people the ability to silence thousands of users? And yet you have not given the community a single tool to hold those who rule them with 5 paragraph essays and passive aggressive comments. Is this what you want your contribution to be? Reddit actually never was the place you wish it was, and the methods the admins keep using aren't going to convince the user base to stay. To be honest dude, the way this guy is feeling but taking it completely overboard, that's how reddit users feel every time moderators remove viewpoints that are deemed valuable to the community. People don't like being treated like this and you are alienating many normal people. Shake off the Pao.

[–]go1dfishSHADOWBANNED for criticising Pao[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Tools are tools and AutoModerator is not inherently oppressive.

AutoModerator is what allows my bot to continue participating at /r/GasTheSnoo and /r/Stuff and for myself to participate here and other subs.

/u/Deimorz doesn't write the auto mod configs. His job is not inherently oppressive, and his Markov experiments at /r/subredditsimulator are quite interesting.

AutoModerator inspired my own bots, not out of a sense of competition but out of a sense of showing what is/was possible.

I don't think he deserves the amount of angst you are directing his way.

[–]CuilRunnings 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Tools are inherently oppressive when they are only being created for one side. The community is more important than the children who are camping top mod spots.

[–]alllie 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

Total number of shadowbanned users that voted on it: 4. There was one other person that's trying to use 10 accounts that are all banned, but we won't count those because that's just blatant cheating. So disregarding those, not even 1% of the people that voted on it are banned. Not even a slightly significant effect on the score.

So you can tell who voted for any submission or comment? You have an app for that?

[–]Deimorz 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

Of course we can tell, the site wouldn't really work if we weren't keeping track of who voted for what.

[–]alllie 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

So you could readily identify the shills and sockpuppets. If you were interested.

So people's votes are tracked, individually, and in aggregate. I could see that would be useful information for...the NSA or CIA, say.

[–]Deimorz 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

If the fact this is tracked is surprising to you at all, I don't think you understand how websites work.

[–]alllie 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yes, I guess I don't. If I ever thought about it, I thought the up and down votes were anonymous, except from your profile page. Like when you vote in an election.

Still troubling. As a commie (Christian socialist really) I'm very aware of the long-term persecution of communists in the US. I guess Reddit analysis would allow the FBI, NSA, CIA to identify us, even before we were out, even to ourselves. Not to mention identifying anyone else whose nature or politics became unpopular in the future.

Hmmmm...

Now about the shills and sockpuppets....

[–]Deimorz 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I mean, they are anonymous to other users and moderators (unless you enable the "make my votes public" preference, in which case they can view them through the upvoted/downvoted pages on your user page, like you said). But it's pretty essential to store who has voted on what in the site data, or there wouldn't be any way to do things like show you which comments you already voted on when you go back into an old thread, or prevent you from voting on the same thing multiple times.

[–]Dannybaker 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

Huh and he got banned as well

Didn't he leave a "suicide note" and retire from reddit a while ago?

Anyway with his drive for transparency, I can imagine he couldn't stay quiet for long

[–]go1dfishSHADOWBANNED for criticising Pao[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was planning on leaving mostly quietly

... until this bullshit

[–]Deimorz -3ポイント-2ポイント  (5子コメント)

He's been banned for a while now, I think his accounts were banned for using about 4 different ones to spam weird nonsensical half-Google-Translate-Chinese messages in every submission an admin posted anywhere. He's definitely kicked it up a few notches lately.

[–]go1dfishSHADOWBANNED for criticising Pao[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Nobody bothers to read my shit in english. So I dropped in mostly mao/tao/art of war quotes.

I did not use google translate. I did use a friend in mainland china though.

https://www.reddit.com/r/learnmandarin/comments/377j6f/日本式英语让我感觉像个傻瓜/

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/37am3f/this_post_was_originally_removed_from_rcentury/

Since when is being weird and difficult to understand against the rules?

If someone had told me to stop including my (progressively increasing signatures) into messages I would have stopped. They all linked internal to reddit. They were more compressed than most link dumps.

https://www.reddit.com/r/millionairemakers/comments/33rtfy/welcome_to_millionairemakers_drawing_thread_6/cqns69m

But instead the admins decided to ban /u/PoliticBot for spam. This is AFTER the account had been the single most active poster on the site ever.

On a similar note /u/ModerationLog has racked up over 150k link karma and 5.46 days worth of server time via gold over the past 1.5 days.

Somebody is interested in this content.

Thank you for not locking me out of ModerationLog btw, if you want me to adjust my documentation of the pao/fattening meta discussion just lay down clear rules.

[–]go1dfishSHADOWBANNED for criticising Pao[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You know what they say about assumptions....

I prefer to work from data and data told me of a way to communicate with someone who has been impossible for me to reach otherwise.

But thank you for confirming that /u/ekjp does not read dissent even from long time users and active developers.

[–]TotesMessengerBots have feelings too! 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)

[–]go1dfishSHADOWBANNED for criticising Pao[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Total number of shadowbanned users that voted on it: 4.

You're not getting it. I'm not suggesting that shadowbanned users are voting (I am not voting for the most part because a sane implementation would ignore those votes)

You don't think most shadowbanned users give up once they realize they are shadowbanned? I have pretty much stopped voting because I don't want to give you guys some excuse to take further action against me for dissent.

I'm not trying to saying that shadowbanned people are voting, I'm saying that when people get shadowbanned they usually leave.

reddit isn't actually the place you wish it was

You have no idea how refreshing it is to see that coming from an admin even if you aren't wearing your Scarlet Letter of authority.

I put this effort into it because I think it's important that more people realize that reddit is no longer the bastion of free-speech it once purported to be. Because it's dangerous for people to think they have what they don't. If reddit just came out and said that it doesn't want to be a place where people can speak out politically that would be wonderful. But as it stands you are talking out of both sides of snoo's mouth.

None are so hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free. The truth has been kept from the depth of their minds by masters who rule them with lies. They feed them on falsehoods till wrong looks like right in their eyes. -Johann von Goethe

It would be one thing if you guys banned /r/gasthekikes /r/coontown etc... at the same time. If this place isn't meant to be for free-expression let people know that in no uncertain terms

Nobody will answer the question: "Why is /r/TwoXChromosomes the only default subreddit to allow political advocacy?"

https://www.reddit.com/r/BringBackReddit/comments/36alxp/my_open_letter_why_is_rtwoxchromosomes_the_only/

I've asked nicely, I've asked not so nicely, I've asked every way I know how and never get any hint of an answer. I never gave a shit about Pao's lawsuits but other people do and I've tried everything else I know to get answers to reasonable questions.

Meanwhile /u/kn0thing is spewing this shit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/blog/comments/35ym8t/promote_ideas_protect_people/cr92h5j?context=3

https://www.reddit.com/r/Upvoted/comments/317sds/episode_12_the_surprisingly_complex_life_of_a/cpz941e

It's complete bullshit. I can't stand by and let that level of hypocrisy stand over something I've put as much time into as reddit. You have to recognize that a site like reddit isn't just the result of the admins inputs no matter how good they are.

So yeah, I snapped and went a little crazy because nothing else changes anything:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheoryOfReddit/comments/1m336u/will_we_ever_see_another_rmarijuanatype_emigration/

It's always some drama

So /u/sporkicide essentially told me to pound sand when they shadowbanned my accounts. I just need to know how hard I can pound.

I'm not breaking any laws, and I'm following the rules and user agreement to the best of my ability.

If you tell me specific behavior to stop I will stop it. I may bitch, but I will listen. You don't have to shadowban me. You don't have to lock me out of my accounts. These things just strengthen my resolve and give me more ammunition for the hordes of skeptical users who never really look too deep into anything unfortunately. I am going Sun Tzu on this place because nothing else wins the supposed competitive game that is supposed to rule over how subreddits succeed or fail on this site.

To my knowledge my ability to message people has been restricted

If you want to talk we can do it here in the open. Reddit supports transparency right?

You don't have to worry about my sanity

[–]Aurailious 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

If I may respond to you here, though I would have preferred a pm. I don't know you, I was just going through deimorz recent comments and came across this one. So I am speaking as an outsider here.

it doesn't want to be a place where people can speak out politically

I am not sure what you mean by this. I don't believe that harassment rules and speaking political are mutually exclusive. Harassment is not allowed irl, why should it be allowed here? I think certain rules need to be put in place to ensure that other users don't infringe on others.

You've mentioned a changing factor on reddit, that it isn't what it once was. I think you have not considered that the admins, mods, etc are reacting to something else instead of acting on their own decisions. I think the real chilling factor on reddit are these subs like FPH, SRS in the past, etc. The admins are just reacting ineffectively and inconsistently, unfortunately causing confusion.

I think your idea of free speech and the admin's "safe spaces" are one and the same. I look at the first comment you posted from kn0thing. To use his metaphor, the admins are acting like police and trying to stop people from yelling over or even harming those on the their soapbox. I think a lot of the people on reddit think that yelling over another should be protected.

Look at what happened recently to /r/all. Isn't that censorship?

"Why is /r/TwoXChromosomes the only default subreddit to allow political advocacy?"

I can't speak for the current, but I think the answer is going to be something akin to ethics. I think the defaults are allowed, but the mods choose not to. They should remain unbiased and neutral. Unless you mean the users themselves, but I know of no such restriction.

I want to give you some advice, your choice to read whats next. Try not to be angry. I believe that fighting for what you believe in is is more effective when you are not being motivated by anger. And by not letting obstacles or discouragement make you angry either. I don't believe every problem in life needs to be the hill that you die upon.

But there those hills.

[–]go1dfishSHADOWBANNED for criticising Pao[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

What hill is?

I didn't get in an uproar when /r/jailbait got closed, that was a pretty clear objective rule with understandable motives.

This just isn't, and I got banned before the fattening for complaining about just how ill conceived the new safe space rule is.

My concerns predate even that policy though:

https://www.reddit.com/r/BringBackReddit/comments/36alxp/my_open_letter_why_is_rtwoxchromosomes_the_only/

The reality is there is certain modes of political thought that just are not allowed anywhere in the default subreddits. This was the case before the fattening and it's obviously only getting worse from here.

Suppression never starts with unobjectionable content. On the whole of it fat hate is one of the least offensive things this sub could seek to ban and that people would be willing to offend. I doubt you'd think any more highly of me if reddit had chosen to suppress racist, or sexist viewpoints and I defended their right to make objectionable speech.

When is it acceptable to get pissed off?

[–]i-am-you 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Oppression/comments/39ns54/udeimorz_on_countermeasures/cs57imu

[–]go1dfishSHADOWBANNED for criticising Pao[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

How many shadowbanned users are still posting pao/fat hate?

[–]MacaroniShits -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think they can shadowban fast enough to stop the Pao hate.

Short of shadowbanning Pao from the company, that is.