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Regarding voat (imgur.com)

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[–]hebrewwarrior69 61ポイント62ポイント  (79子コメント)

I have to say I really disagree with this. I don't see how Reddit is moving towards censorship at all. I don't think that EVERYONE moving to Voat is scummy, especially not Adam, but it really just seems like a dumb move to go to a website that can't even keep itself running. With that being said, if Reddit does get to a point where it begins censoring stuff like /r/cringe and Voat would actually get itself up and running, I don't think it would be too awful to move there.

[–]Babill 35ポイント36ポイント  (60子コメント)

If reddit was consistent in its subreddit banning, cringe would have gone with fph. Those two subreddits have the exact same purpose, only with a different target.

[–]Phinaeus 37ポイント38ポイント  (46子コメント)

Reddit IS consistent with its subreddit banning. The problem is, they are not transparent about it.

FPH was harassing real people and were condoning it in modmail as shown in some leaked modmails. Don't brigade and don't harass people. It's not about censorship at all. That's why so many other controversial subreddits still exist. Also why the offshoots were all extinguished.

Adam is completely misguided.

Edit: Ok let me elaborate a lot more. Many people don't know reddit and fill in the gaps with nonsense.

Let's assume FPH was banned because it was making reddit look bad and the admins wanted to censor the subreddit just cause. Let's delve into reddit history.

/r/niggers was banned because of some picture with an AR15 advocating violence against protesters during the Trayvon Martin protests. As a result, the admins stepped in and banned the subreddit. It later came back in the form of /r/greatapes and /r/coontown, both of which have rules against violent calls to action (what an accomplishment!). They are both not banned because they follow the rules.

So what makes reddit look worse? A racist subreddit or a fathating subreddit? It's up to you because it doesn't matter. The admins don't ban subreddits just because they disagree with them. How do you explain the existence of /r/coontown if you truly believe that admins ban every subreddit they disagree with?

The simple fact of the matter is that the admins ban harassing behavior.

It is EXTREMELY likely that a FPH2 would have followed the path of /r/coontown if they had just cooled off and implemented stricter rules. No doubt they were warned by the admins for their behavior prior to this. But nope, they insisted on their imgur sidebar picture and linking to the google cache of the imgur about page filled with links to linkedins and twitters even after imgur redacted that page.

And one last thing, stop whining about SRS. They are not brigading any more. So stop complaining already.

[–]Babill 22ポイント23ポイント  (15子コメント)

Why did they ban /r/neofag? It seems really obvious that only one kind of hate is banned on reddit. Anti-sjws subreddits are held to a completely different standard than sjw subs. Look at KiA, they can't even link to other subs even with np links and they cannot link to public emails for emailing campaigns, while SRS freely links to other subs without even bothering with np links. How anyone can pretend that there isn't two speeds in the banning system is beyond me.

[–]BattleChimpAdam's Apple -5ポイント-4ポイント  (26子コメント)

To claim reddit is consistent with its subreddit bannings is to reveal that you're either deeply engaged in double standards or you're uninformed. If there was any consistency then the metareddit subreddits would have been the first to go. They exist specifically to mock and harass both groups and individuals.

Here is a documentary about reddit that includes SRS admins admitting that SRS exists to mock and bully other reddit users.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXGs_7Yted8&t=4m

Of all the claims made here, the most ludicrous one is that reddit is being consistent with bannings. There are hundreds of more egregious subreddits than FPH, yet FPH is the only genuinely active sub to have been banned. You weren't even able to link intrareddit on FPH yet all the metareddit subs allow intrareddit links. Look at SRS, they just changed their rules to disallow NP links. Now the brigading and harassment is even more direct.

How can you possibly claim they're consistent when there's hundreds of subs worse than FPH that are still around?Consistency in banning is a claim you simply cannot make with any amount of honest or understanding of the situation.

[–]Phinaeus -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

You weren't even able to link intrareddit on FPH yet all the metareddit subs allow intrareddit links. Look at SRS, they just changed their rules to disallow NP links. Now the brigading and harassment is even more direct.

Also FPH wasn't banned because it followed reddit links and voted. They were posting docs of imgur employees and harassing people posted on their subreddit. Your point about np linking is completely irrelevant.

[–]BattleChimpAdam's Apple 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

They were posting docs of imgur employees and harassing people posted on their subreddit.

That is a lie. They posted a publicly available picture. Get your shit straight before pretending you know what you're talking about.

[–]Phinaeus -5ポイント-4ポイント  (3子コメント)

You're a dumbass. They clearly posted docs and you don't do that shit on reddit. DAE HURR DURR MUH FREESPEECH MUH CENSORSHIP

[–]Phinaeus -5ポイント-4ポイント  (19子コメント)

https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/39bpam/removing_harassing_subreddits/cs2a7qu?context=3

They are consistent now. Stop complaining about SRS, they don't even do shit anymore.

https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/39bpam/removing_harassing_subreddits/cs23hqk?context=3

How can you possibly claim they're consistent when there's hundreds of subs worse than FPH that are still around?

What on earth are you talking about? Let me write my claim again in clear words. The admins are consistent in banning subreddits that brigade or harass people. They don't ban based on 'egregiousness'. They ban based on actions.

Example: /r/niggers was banned because because a post was calling for violent action. Their next iterations, namely /r/greatapes and /r/coontown, now toe the line and are not banned. Admins ban on subreddit behavior, not ideas. They don't censor subreddits.

[–]Babill 5ポイント6ポイント  (12子コメント)

Okay, what did /r/neofag do, pray tell?

[–]BattleChimpAdam's Apple 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

They are consistent now.

So you post the words of the biased hypocrites that are lying to our faces and expect me to think that means something? Them saying they're being consistent doesn't magically make them consistent. The person who is being inconsistent claiming that they're being consistent means nothing.

What on earth are you talking about? Let me write my claim again in clear words. The admins are consistent in banning subreddits that brigade or harass people. They don't ban based on 'egregiousness'. They ban based on actions.

Admins ban on subreddit behavior, not ideas.

No, they are blatantly banning ideas. That was in part the point Adam was making. If they were banning behavior then how could they be banning brand new subs with new mods and strict rules. That isn't "ban evasion," it's a new sub that is subsequently banned for its ideas.

"If they were banning behavior instead of ideas, then they wouldn't be removing every single FPH alternative. There's evidence to support that FPH violated site rules, so it's fine that they removed it. However, removing all alternative subreddits that come after the fact shows that is has nothing to do with the rules. Those new subreddits were under different moderation and many of them were created with strict rules so that they would exist whilst abiding by reddit's global rules. They're lying to our faces and I can't in good conscience support that." -- YMS

He's right.

[–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]Phinaeus 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

    np linking is very standard subreddit policy. It's a token act. FPH was not banned for vote brigading. They were banned for harassment.

    Let's not forget that there are subs made for violence against women, subs exclusive for racism, pornography of all sorts, gore and death, when did lightly hurting an overweight person's feelings became such a huge moral issue?

    I'm not addressing that.

    Here's what actually happened.

    On the afternoon of Thursday, June 11th, Admin /u/powerlanguage made the following statement in a thread in /r/lounge:

    I wanted to share with you some clarity I’ve gotten from our community team around this decision that was made.

    Over the past 6 months or so, the level of contact emails and messages they’ve been answering with had begun to increase both in volume and urgency. They were often from scared and confused people who didn’t know why they were being targeted, and were in fear for their or their loved ones safety.It was an identifiable trend, and it was always leading back to the fat-shaming subreddits. Upon investigation, it was found that not only was the community engaging in harassing behavior but the mods were not only participating in it, but even at times encouraging it.The ban of these communities was in no way intended to censor communication. It was simply to put an end to behavior that was being fostered within the communities that were banned. We are a platform for human interaction, but we do not want to be a platform that allows real-life harassment of people to happen. We decided we simply could no longer turn a blind eye to the human beings whose lives were being affected by our users’ behavior.

    And here's an example of their behavior and general attitude towards harassment

    https://imgur.com/a/GCVC2

    [–]ShrimpFood 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    They allowed photo links, which means the posts they were making fun of was just 1 click away, at the top, with "Other discussions (1)"

    When someone who posted their picture in /r/sewing got linked in FPH, the original post got brigaded. The person's (supposed) mother told them to remove the post because her daughter was autistic and just showing off some work; they responded with this and sidebarred her image. This isn't the first time it's happened (sidebarring some poor person from /r/loseit or wherever), but it's the first

    SRS doesn't do that. SRD doesn't do that. FPH did that, and they got banned for harassment. This isn't rocket science. If FPH stayed in their own little bubble like /r/coontown and every other bigoted sub did, they would not be banned. The fact that pretty much anyone who disliked FPH and was vocal about it could pull up a thread where they got 5 "Found the fatty"le comments is a testament to their isolation.

    [–]NFirst 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    /r/trashy is pretty much on par with those also.

    [–]hebrewwarrior69 4ポイント5ポイント  (6子コメント)

    Not really. I always viewed /r/cringe as more of an empathetic thing, like how would you feel if you were in those person's shoes/this is the stupid stuff you did as a kid. It was never intended to be a hateful subreddit.

    [–]Babill 13ポイント14ポイント  (3子コメント)

    cringe can be really hateful at times.

    [–]chevybow 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I believe you're thinking of cringepics. I view cringe occasionally and don't see anything too bad. Meanwhile cringepics is essentially "Look at this person that bullied me in highschool- let's make fun of them!!"

    [–]hebrewwarrior69 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    True, but it's still different from the subreddits that were banned because it doesn't target anyone in particular. Plus, we can easily combat the hateful users by simply downvoting their comments.

    [–]and181377 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Cringe has very specific rules regarding what is allowed to stay, and if something is deleted by the creator even asking for a mirror is able to get you banned. They do show people in a bad light, but will remove the content if asked.

    [–]ogHorus 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Intentions and reality aren't the same thing. There are a considerable number of people that leave comments on YouTube videos after seeing them on /r/cringe to bully and harass the uploader. There have been many times where the uploader just deletes the video because it gets too out of hand.

    I understand that the moderators can't control what people do outside their subreddit and that a lot of them are trolls, but this is essentially why FPH was deleted. Admins claimed that the harassment was spreading outside their community and that's exactly what's been happening for /r/cringe. Under Reddit admin claims, this subreddit would have to be deleted as well and that would be bs because it would be blatant censorship, but since it doesn't fall under SJW priorities, the admins don't care.

    [–]sanfranidiot 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

    I don't browse cringe much, but from what I hear, there's never any personal information to be gleaned from what's posted, unlike FPH, which usually involved actual images of people. Images of their face.

    [–]Babill 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'm putting cringe and cringepics in the same basket, and the latter does have pics of people. Like it's its only purpose.

    [–]Lacku 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    are you saying that /r/cringepics censor faces? because if you do, you have no idea what you're talking about.

    /r/fph censored identifying information, names, numbers etc.

    [–]sanfranidiot 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Didn't FPH post an image of an overweight imgur employee?

    Bad move, FPH.

    [–]porkypenguin -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    No, because /r/cringe doesn't go out of its way to harass people. They just laugh at people within the confines of the sub.

    [–]anUnkindnessThat YMS guy[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Hijacking top comment for visibility.

    Didn't expect this post to cause this much of a shit storm here. Remember that I haven't left. I'm just preparing for the worst. Consider it an equivalency to my videos being cross-posted to my website. I still post everything on YouTube, but my website is there and ready to go in case I ever need it. I've always prepared for the worst, so there's no need to panic. I don't think voat is functional enough to use properly just yet anyway.

    [–]Trekky0623 10ポイント11ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Not so much rampant censorship, but Reddit is definitely moving toward the safe-space mentality being adopted by American universities recently, who have also adopted speech codes and facilitated a hostile environment that hampers intellectual diversity. The Reddit admins have said, "It's not our site's goal to be a completely free-speech platform. We want to be a safe platform and we want to be a platform that also protects privacy at the same time."

    In other words, Reddit wants to move away from open and unhampered discussion to a place where people can interact without being confronted with uncomfortable ideas – a "safe space." This means the banning of certain subreddits that fulfill a purposefully vague definition of harassment who have leaked onto the front page, thus damaging the "safety" of the Reddit environment.

    Moreover, if the Reddit admins define the majority mentality on Reddit – liberal, mid-20s, college-aged Americans with certain beliefs regarding social justice – as "safe," then it follows that places that do not conform to that mentality are "unsafe" and require action to make them safer, requiring censorship to stop them. It seems that Adam disagrees with this mentality, and I for one agree with him.

    [–]ShrimpFood -4ポイント-3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Is there not a certain safety found in a majority? I find reddit to often be hypocritical, where jokes about black people "are just jokes" but ooh boy if you bring up stereotypes about white people dancing...

    Pick your hill to fight on dude. FPH is not a good hill to die on. They took part in a lot of harassment, and they made reddit look like shit to any outsiders. This is as much about harassment as it is about reddit's PR. If you wouldn't recommend reddit to an acquaintance or someone you don't know that well for fear of them stumbling on a place like FPH, then reddit as a business is doing something wrong. Reddit as a business took action, and cleaned up something that, free speech or not, made the site look idiotic. The collective tantrum thrown the last few days only solidified this idea.

    Reddit is often in the red. "Existing" is probably prioritized slightly higher than "free speech at all costs," and looking like an angry cesspool to investors is dumb.

    [–]Trekky0623 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

    It isn't just the banning /r/fatpeoplehate, though. It's the comment massacres in /r/gaming during the beginning of the Gamergate thing. It's the banning of Gizmodo's article concerning /r/jailbait. It's the fact that the only default subreddit with political content currently is /r/TwoXChromosomes. It's the selective use of shadow banning with no clear idea as to what warrants one. It's allowing some subreddits to participate in political action by contacting congress and other contacts about SOPA and CISPA, while threatening to ban those who do the same thing with other ideologies, like contacting PR representatives regarding advertising as they tried to do over on /r/KotakuInAction. It's the overarching shift under the new management from a free speech platform to a safe-space platform that hampers intellectual diversity.

    [–]ShrimpFood 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    /r/gaming was trying to shut down a potential witch hunt. Regardless of what the truth or outcome of that story was, does an ex-boyfriend with a 9 page post entailing his ex's actions really seem that trustworthy? Regardless of the outcome, it's not /r/gaming's responsibility to host that conversation. It's not their responsibility to moderate that conversation as it surely would (and did) become a shitstorm quickly. The end result is they realized they're not getting paid for this shit, and told people to take it elsewhere.

    It's the fact that the only default subreddit with political content currently is /r/TwoXChromosomes.

    /r/videos is pretty much a puppet for whatever political slant people feel like upvoting. Same with /r/TiL (did you see the TIL post about a jew defending Nazis' right to free speech right after the ban of FPH? No coincidence there.) Yeah, they're not explicitly for espousing political views, but then again, neither is TwoX. I don't think you're completely wrong though. The admins defaulted it to try and make women feel more welcome and they ended up turning most of the comment sections into cesspools with a bunch of people saying "I don't have personal experience, but.." Becoming a default is a death sentence for any subreddit. It's why places like /r/askhistorians always opt out. There's my case example for good use of heavy moderation, btw.

    It's the selective use of shadow banning with no clear idea as to what warrants one.

    You're right and I agree: reddit needs transparency. For what it's worth, I've seen a couple admins say they intend on phasing out the archaic shadow ban sooner than later.

    It's allowing some subreddits to participate in political action by contacting congress and other contacts about SOPA and CISPA, while threatening to ban those who do the same thing with other ideologies, like contacting PR representatives regarding advertising as they tried to do over on /r/KotakuInAction.

    Lol yeah not even gonna try to defend them there, that was just stupid. At the very least, I would say the rules are fairly new, and they sure as hell won't be doing those mass-e-mails ever again; it might just be a matter of not retroactively enforcing rules again. It was still a hypocritical shitshow. IMO, neither should have happened.

    It's the overarching shift under the new management from a free speech platform to a safe-space platform that hampers intellectual diversity.

    Reddit has always claimed to be about free speech, but they're no pirate bay. Twist their wrist and they'll comply. This isn't new, though. Negative media attention has forced reddit's hand every time for years. Honestly, free speech at all costs just isn't financially feasible; it makes too many sponsors nervous. I'm quietly waiting for Voat to double down on the begging for donations when they realize a userbase that uses adblock and refuses to have any of their information compromised make really bad customers.

    that hampers intellectual diversity.

    Like I said man, pick your hill to die on. We're talking about /r/fatpeoplehate, /r/hamplanethatred, /r/transfags, /r/neofag, and /r/shitniggerssay. These are not the crown jewels of reddit.

    I'm not seeing a whole lot of intellectual diversity. I'd rather defend the right to free speech after a peaceful protester gets arrested than, say, when a Nazi gets arrested for holding a parade through a Jewish neighborhood. Wouldn't you? There's no shortage of either , so why wouldn't I wait for the former scenario to pop up? There's a helluva stronger case for free speech to be made after the first scenario, anyways.

    Pick better martyrs, then let's talk censorship.

    [–]sanfranidiot 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I don't see how Reddit is moving towards censorship at all

    Probably because of your browsing and commenting habits. If you ever wanted to debate certain subjects in certain subreddits, you'll quickly get a taste of Reddit censorship.

    [–]ShrimpFood 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    That has been a core principle of reddit since the inception of subreddits: isolated communities run by mods. If the people running the sub don't want to see something in their sub, they can remove it. That's not "reddit" "censorship" that's a moderator moderating based on the rules they created. Don't like it? Make your own subreddit. If people really don't like the moderators, they'll migrate.

    [–]Moynia 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It's being Ddosed constantly from angry SJWs, the site owner even said they are already on their second DDOS for the week.

    [–]BattleChimpAdam's Apple -5ポイント-4ポイント  (8子コメント)

    I don't see how Reddit is moving towards censorship at all

    Then you simply aren't informed or aren't paying attention to what's currently happening.

    [–]hebrewwarrior69 4ポイント5ポイント  (7子コメント)

    I just don't think it's worth it defending content that harasses entire groups of people.

    [–]BattleChimpAdam's Apple 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

    Then apply that stance evenly. There are hundreds and hundreds of subreddits that should be banned by those standards. SRS for example. Yet it won't be banned. There is extreme hypocrisy at play and if you're paying attention it's exceedingly obvious that this all amounts to censorship. Yes, censorship is precisely what this is. They hide under the accusation of harassment but really the banning of FPH is a personal, biased and politically motivated banning.

    You can be of the opinion that you want to see reddit ban subs, but you can't pretend it isn't censorship.

    [–]porkypenguin -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

    One point made in the modpost was the distinction of harassment versus brigading.

    SRS doesn't harass. SRS doesn't doxx people and try to ruin lives, call for violence, or really do anything in real life. SRS brigades.

    /r/fatpeoplehate doxxed imgur executives and publicly mocked them, /r/transfags harassed the parents of a 16-year-old trans kid, /r/niggers called for violence.. etc. SRS made fun of someone in reddit comments.

    [–]BattleChimpAdam's Apple -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

    SRS harasses the fuck out of people. They exist as a harassment/mocking subreddit. Here are THE MODS OF SRS stating as much:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXGs_7Yted8&t=4m

    SRS doesn't doxx people and try to ruin lives, call for violence, or really do anything in real life.

    This is completely untrue. The violentacrez saga alone PROVES what you're saying is untrue. And beyond that they have attacked many people in their real lives. I'm sorry but you're uninformed.

    [–]ShrimpFood 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Adrien Chen found violentAcrez information. His information was also publically available, he went to meetups often and had his info available there.

    Being happy the mod of /r/jailbait got doxxed is scummy, but it's not doxxing.

    [–]porkypenguin -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Anyone who doesn't agree with you is apparently uninformed.

    [–]hebrewwarrior69 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Maybe not all censorship is bad if that's the stance you're gonna take.

    [–]BattleChimpAdam's Apple 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    That's a different conversation. Just don't pretend it isn't censorship. Such a stance is asinine.