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Fallout 4 Gameplay E3 2015 (youtube.com)

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[–]Troub313 248ポイント249ポイント  (72子コメント)

Why not husband-husband? Wow, Bethesda needs to check their privledge, shitlords... While I am being sarcastic, there will actually be someone who says this.

Edit: Wait, before you angrily comment, realize, I am not lampooning the request of a gay couple in game, I think that would be awesome. I am parodying people who get overly offended about what is and isn't in a game.

[–]Reilly45 92ポイント93ポイント  (45子コメント)

Here you go.

[–]Troub313 61ポイント62ポイント  (18子コメント)

Ah, was worried this wasn't reddit for a moment.

[–]mrlowe98 29ポイント30ポイント  (16子コメント)

Eh, it's as valid a criticism as people who complain about the protagonist being voiced now. If it limits your ability to role play, it's a problem in a lot of people's minds.

[–]Troub313 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am not saying it's not a valid feature request... It however, isn't something to get offended over. You can say "I wish this was in the game, please put this in the game thanks" ,but most people go with "HOW DARE YOU! YOU FUCK!" which is what I am lampooning.

[–]dccorona 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

I guess I can see it, but I mean...come on. They've added a boatload of new features that make it easier than ever to do whatever it is you want, including what looks like it could become a full on in-game city building aspect (they mentioned you can run caravans between your settlements...there has to be reason and strategy for that). Sounds like you could, more than ever before, just play a person trying to be peaceful and rebuild a simple life, if that's what you wanted. Or a bunch of stuff in between.

If someone is taken out of that by a voiced character, or by the straight married couple (who some have theorized are actually your parents, and you get to play as the baby), then you kinda lack a resilient imagination in my mind.

[–]OriginZero 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

How are they your parents? The clip clearly shows "Howard" get out of the vault 200 years later. He clearly seems to remember being Howard...

[–]mrlowe98 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's not a resilient imagination, it's that people love having the creative freedom to imagine everything about their characters personality and backstory. Dismissing that because they "don't have a resilient imagination" is just a way of saying "I disagree for no real reason." Which is fine, if it's an opinion you don't share, it really is just personal preference.

[–]dccorona 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I certainly don't begrudge them their opinion on how they'd rather the game be. I even agree with those who think it would be better if they offered homosexual relationships as an option. I've just played so many games in the past where such and such detail wasn't how I'd prefer it to be, so I'd just pretend it was otherwise. Games have limited time and financial budgets, and can't be everything to everyone. It's one thing to wish it was different, but if those differences make it so that you literally can't even enjoy the game (particularly something like the character being voiced which has 0 impact on what you can do in the game), then yes, I'd say there's a lack of imagination there.

[–]botttled_water 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

In the witcher 3 I can only have sex with 3 women instead of all the women, and there is no option to change my character, or have a relationship with a guy, but it's an RPG. The story is what it is and having a heterosexual couple might lend itself to the story. The game is what it is, it's not valid criticism. It's as valid as me being angry at Pulp Fiction because the Samuel L Jackson didn't have sex with a guy.

[–]mrlowe98 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

The game isn't just an RPG game, it's a Fallout game, and that comes with a lot of expectations that other RPGs don't have.

There are some obvious ones, like "it should be a FPS set in a post apocalyptic world". Duh. "There should be mods." Of course. "We should be able to choose basically everything about our protagonists." That's what people don't like.

In New Vegas with the Confirmed Bachelor perk, it allowed the Courier to flirt with multiple men in the game if he was a guy. You could make him gay and there'd actually be content in game that specified that. If the new game does have the same level of freedom, people are naturally going to complain.

Now me personally, I don't give a fuck. I always end up playing these games down a fairly linear path anyways and I don't try to get creative with my characters. If the devs want to sacrifice creative freedom to tell a deeper or more meaningful story, I'm all for it.

[–]OriginZero 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Being an FPS is not a obvious expectation. There have been more non-fps fallout games than FPS ones...

[–]mrlowe98 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's still a fan expectation though. If Fallout decided to go back to a turn-based top down view game, people are going to complain and not buy the game. If they make it 3rd person only, people are going to complain and not buy the game. It being in 3rd person for a large portion of the fanbase is a reasonable expectation.

[–]OriginZero 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Oh, they'd complain, but they'd still buy it.

[–]mrlowe98 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd hate-play the fuck out of it.

[–]botttled_water -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

OK that's fine, but it comes with expectations from these people. The game is made to be the way it is. If they make it this way then that's the artistic vision of the game. I don't think they should have to alter it to fit into the weird political narrative that is running currently in the western world.

[–][削除されました]  (3子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]mrlowe98 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Uh... what? Are you being sarcastic?

    [–]OriginZero 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Um..I don't think you watched the trailer...or maybe you stopped after the bombs dropped?

    [–]MAKE_ME_REDDIT 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Did you watch the video?

    [–]TerracottaPotts 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

    reddit can sometimes honestly make my brain hurt.

    [–]botttled_water 54ポイント55ポイント  (14子コメント)

    But the game is a fixed story, it's not necessarily your story, it's just a story you're playing. That's just the story. Why should the story change based around you as an individual? That's total bullshit.

    Edit: also how the fuck would the couple be able to have a baby if it was a lesbian couple. I wish everyone would fuck off.

    [–]Phuk_The_Fat_Admins 104ポイント105ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I didn't see an option to create a trans racial disabled transsexual couple with war injuries. Also why is there no option to adopt a struggling 20 year old Albanian furry with autism and a hunch back?

    Typical ableist game developers.

    [–]HerpingtonDerpDerp 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Relax. You can modify and upgrade your pronouns through the Pip-Boy Gender Neutral.

    [–]Wet-Goat 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I guess there will be people who will be upset about having certain aspects of their character decided for them, same goes for the inclusion of a player voice. Personally I don't think it will be much of a problem since there will be an alternate start mod out promptly after release but I can understand why some hardcore RPers would be upset.

    [–]Modernautomatic 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yeah, Game of Thrones is bulshit too because Jon Snow isn't a lesbian!

    [–]PrayForMojo_ 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Some people like to role play in a role playing game rather than have a predefined character or story. That is the only thing that OP was complaining about.

    [–]botttled_water 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Clearly this game has a predefined story and narrative or the protagonist wouldn't talk. Just cause you want a game to be something doesn't mean it's going to be that.

    [–]PrayForMojo_ 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Obviously. I was just clarifying OPs complaint, certainly not agreeing with it.

    But you've got to agree that switching from a completely open role playing approach to a predefined story is a fairly significant change for the Fallout series.

    Clearly it's too early to say whether that is a good or a bad thing, but it is definitely a thing that will be talked about once the game is released and is being reviewed.

    [–]ChickensDontClap90 -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Are we sure you play as the baby? Was the Cogsworth recap a red herring? It's still been 200 years, since you / your parents went down in the vault. I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS THAN ANSWERS!

    [–]botttled_water 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    You don't necessarily play as the baby, he just says you can make a baby in the game based on the appearance of the parents.

    [–]jumpingcatsquirrel -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    That's not very tolerant ( says the the social justice warrior)

    [–]grandmascooch -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I think it's just a matter of having more backstory/character options, a la several other games with character creation. You can have a fixed story that still permits your character to be, generally, whomever you want them to me. Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Skyrim, etc. -- all games where the story is fairly set, but where you can play a homo/bi/pan/asexual character.

    I totally get what you're saying, but the option to have a fixed story that allows you to play whomever you want without limiting you too much isn't exactly unheard of.

    Also, adoption is a thing.

    [–]AnalogRevolution -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Asking to have more options for the created character doesn't necessarily mean they want it to be about themselves. There are probably more guys who play as female characters in games where you can than actual women who play them. And when have you noticed a Fallout story that would be noticeably affected in any way by changing a main character's gender or orientation?
    Personally I don't really care, but it's just stupid how this would be no different than gamers asking about (more like demanding usually) any other feature in a game, but because it's some SJW-type thing, everyone has to come up with all excuses why it wouldn't work or how it's a stupid request.

    And to your edit: It's a fictional world, maybe they've invented a crazy futuristic sci-fi concept like adoption or artificial insemination in the Fallout universe.

    Edit: Also, from the video: "This is an enormous, dynamic world where you can create any kind of character you want... player freedom remains our absolute number one goal."

    [–]lotusscissors 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    See, I think the problem here is that Fallout used to have so much character ambiguity that you could be literally WHOEVER you wanted. There are straight and gay perks (Lady Killer and the other One) for both sexes, an openly gay Ghoul couple in Fallout 3, it just seems like something unique to Fallout has been taken away.

    Not to say that the story that has been laid out won't be compelling. It's the same thing in my mind with the spoken dialogue: you're playing as this guy, not as "yourself if you were in a post apocalyptic wasteland", which I think was a wonderful thing about Fallout, especially in New Vegas. 3 had the dad storyline, but NV was pretty much "hey, it could be you"! Which was pretty awesome.

    [–]shkacatou 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Re your edit... The way most lesbian couples manage it, they would use a sperm donor

    [–]moww 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Great, now we have to ban /r/videos

    [–]georgito555 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Wow and everyone immediately down voted her...real mature guys

    [–]comradenu 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

    I think his argument is on point. The Fallout games have always been about pure roleplaying - YOU make your character who or what he/she is. None of the playable characters in these games had any backstory except for FO3... by Bethesda. But even in FO3 it wasn't really all that fleshed out. But NOW, you're a husband and a father in a seemingly middle class lifestyle with a steady job and good pay. Then the world gets nuked and you're put into hibernation and wake up to a shelled out wasteland. The thing is, any actions or choices you now make are framed by your pre-war life. If you want to become a murdering, morally bankrupt maniac it would make absolutely no sense now, because "Wait, I used to be normal. Am I really about to kill this whole town just for laughs?"

    That person's point wasn't "There must be a homo/trans/whatever option if there's a hetero option because equality/SJW" it was "Creating any pre-made backstory to a PC in an RPG intrinsically limits the role-playing aspect"

    [–]thealmightydru 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

    As that post is in /r/LesbianGamers, I'm willing to bet that poster is a "her."

    In any case, Howard said whichever character you leave the menu as is the character you play, so you could be the woman.

    As for the rest, I feel like games always have to put you within some kind of structure, otherwise the story they write has less to connect with. We're used to a lot of freedom, yes, but remember that even games like Final Fantasy where your character is wholly defined still gets filed under "role playing game." So you have this part of your story set, but it's not too unlike the past. In FO3 you were a vault dweller. What if you didn't want to roleplay as a vault dweller? Tough. In NV you were a courier. What if you didn't want to roleplay as a courier? Tough. You either take it or ignore it.

    Still, if it suits you, who says you are a "normal" husband/wife? Lots of serial killers, rapists, and general sociopaths are ostensibly "normal." Who knows what one would do in a lawless wasteland? Maybe being frozen in carbonite or whatever kept you alive messed with your head? If you want to roleplay a bad egg, I'm sure you can find a justification.

    So you come from a "normal" looking family from 2077. Maybe you're an insurance agent. Maybe you are CIA. Living in a house in suburbia isn't the be-all end-all of identity.

    [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–]comradenu 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      In the character creation screen you can heavily customize the appearance of the husband (male PC) or the wife (female PC)... why would that be necassary if you're only gonna see them in the intro portion?

      Also there was a scene where the PC and the Mr. Handy recognize each other in the wastes. How would the PC recognize the Mr. Handy as Cogsworth if he was a baby when he went into the vault?

      [–]dksprocket 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Please don't shoot the messenger, but considering how arbitrarily the admins have been shadowbanning people lately you might you might want to change that link to a np link like this. The post has already gotten over 100 downvotes since you linked it.

      [–]ElMatasiete7 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Damn it Tumblr! Oh wait...

      [–]ademnus 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Maybe it's already possible.

      [–]Troub313 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

      It's one of those things though, cool if it is, no big deal if it isn't. Yet, some people will rage and call racism, misogyny, sexism, homophobia, etc etc etc... You're basically fucked no matter what these days. The checklist for offending someone is as follows :

      1.) Have you done anything at all?

      If yes, you have offended someone.

      [–]Almost_Ascended 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      People need to learn that they will offend someone, no matter what...and those people being offended means absolutely nothing. Just carry on as usual.

      [–]Troub313 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      There will always be the vocal minority and most places are pretty good about not listening to them.

      [–]oarfjorai 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      700 mods, you have to assume there are more than a couple triggers

      [–]SolipsistMisanthrope 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

      Should people not say this? It is a reasonable request to let people have more freedom in their characters' story and relationships.

      [–]TowelMerchant 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I doubt that Fallout's pre-war culture would be very accepting of gay marriage, so it would make sense for it to be locked to just husband and wife.

      [–]Troub313 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

      It's one thing to want the feature, it's another to complain, act victimized, and call the developer an asshole for not including it and being offended that it wasn't defacto-included.

      [–]AnalogRevolution 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Yeah, gamers aren't really known for complaining, acting victimized, and calling developers assholes for not including the features they want.

      [–]Troub313 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      It's stupid in what ever request you do it for, but it's only requests like these that they decide that they also choose that the Developers are also racist homophobe sexist blah blah blahs.

      [–]TheeRyanGrey 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      It's not your story it's the characters. it's bethesdas. If that's not your interest, if you only play games that allow you to tell your own story, then you're free to play something else.

      [–]Aleios1 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Why? Seriously. If they have the story set out like this I really see no fucking harm. It's just people bitching because they feel that they are owed something. What should they compromise for next? Hell, why not have full on disabilities. The game story comes before the shitty character customization otherwise it will just be a clusterfuck of assets to create.

      [–]RankFoundry 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Why not husband-goat? Or snail-walrus? You humans need to check your human privileged.

      [–]grandmascooch 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

      I'll comment on this as someone that is mildly (MILDLY) disappointed that the story dictates that I play a straight person. But all that means to me is that, at least in terms of this game, I'll be playing a character instead of myself. Which is no big deal, self-inserts are a bit lame anyway.

      (Or I'll just play my character as being bi or something. His wife and kid are dead anyway, it's not like they can get mad about it.)

      [–]Troub313 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

      In my head since it is 1950s culture, you could just roleplay that out... Which is why you had the wife and kids or husband and kids. It was all part of an act, because of the repressive culture you were forced to live under. Now in the wasteland, it's all gone and you can be yourself... if you can survive.

      [–]grandmascooch 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

      Oh, for sure. When it comes down to it, you can always headcanon around parts of the backstory that don't quite mesh with how you want to play your character. It's just a lot more fun when the story doesn't conflict with what you had in mind.

      [–]Troub313 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

      Adapt. Overcome. Make it up in your head.

      Honestly, there have been stories I have just plain ignored and gone with my own thing, many times. The only ones I can't do that with is the Witcher ,but I don't really want to do that with that one, as it is telling me a story that I get to play through.

      [–]grandmascooch 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Oh, definitely. When it comes right down to it, I can play whoever I like, and damn the provided backstory. But it's definitely easier/more immersive if the story accommodates that, rather than having to outright ignore things that are said/done in game to work with what I have in mind, that's all.

      [–]Troub313 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Yeah, I mean I wish all games would do like "Choose 3 options" or something for backstory, but usually that leads to your backstory is never once ever again mentioned because it is 3 times the workload to work it in. So there are pros and cons to having one firm backstory, in that it gets brought up again and can be part of the story and the downsides are that it is restrictive in your roleplay. However, I believe for the most part you can adapt, however there will be some things you can't work around.

      Such as maybe I want to be a ghoul or maybe I want to be an ultra-smart super mutant.

      [–]grandmascooch 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      That's why I like Bioware's games -- with the exception of Dragon Age II, you get a few options for who you want to be/what your backstory is. But yeah, adapting is simply the name of the game, sometimes.

      It's just situations like this that kind of confuse me. I get the game not being able to accommodate you wanting to be a ghoul or whatever, but sexuality is one thing that's super easy to not restrict you on, especially in games where romance isn't part of it.

      I'm not too stressed, though. I'll play my character in Fallout 4 the way that I want to, and, ultimately, the way that they handle it (the husband/wife switching out, character customization in the bathroom mirror, etc.) is pretty cool.

      [–]Troub313 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Honestly, I am pretty confident it was simply just due to the nature of 1950s culture. It would have been sort of breaking with that time period to just have an open and out gay couple being accepted into something like the vault... Seeing as vault-tec was basically the devil. Also, bioware has the benefit of crafting their own world. Fallout was an established series before they came along. So Dragon Age can make a world where gay, trans, and all that is not even questioned.

      [–]Aquinas26 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      If memory serves me right, there is a lesbian couple in Fallout: NV. Veronica I believe.

      There is a homosexual prostitute named Arcade, as well.

      And there's Betsy, who has this PTSD thing going and says: "But maybe it's just the sex, when I see a cute little number, I want is to get in her pants." after she states she feels bad about killing female fiends.

      [–]Troub313 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Yep, I remember that as well. I think it is fairly represented honestly.

      Based on the 2013 NHIS data [collected in 2013 from 34,557 adults aged 18 and over], 96.6% of adults identified as straight, 1.6% identified as gay or lesbian, and 0.7% identified as bisexual. The remaining 1.1% of adults identified as “something else[]” [0.2%,] stated “I don’t know the answer[]” [0.4%] or refused to provide an answer [0.6%].

      After something like the Great War and considering there are maybe a population of like 2,000 in New Vegas... having 2-4 LGB characters is pretty accurate.

      [–]princerules666 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      You should be able to be gay, tho...

      If that one guy that supposedly got fired and leaked a bunch of shit is legit, you're gonna be able to have a sex change, which is tight.

      [–]Troub313 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      It's a 1950s culture, they were super oppressive culture back then and gay rights were abysmal. Who is saying you aren't gay? Who says your family wasn't just to keep up appearances while you worked behind the scenes in the name of gay rights? Then the war happened and culture and humanity was destroyed... Now you can finally be yourself.

      [–]elzombino 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      trigger'd