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ChristianityAren't Christian saints just polytheism in disguise? (self.DebateReligion)

Duplicitiatheist が 投稿

Christians prayer to saints seems to be just another form of polytheism.

Pray to Saint X and you will succeed in your sport. Pray to Saint Y and you will pass this exam.

How is that any different to Hindu's praying to their God of sport or knowledge, aside from calling them saints and not Gods?

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[–]encouragethestormcatholic | BA theology 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pray to Saint X and you will succeed in your sport. Pray to Saint Y and you will pass this exam.

That's not how it works, or at least it's not how it should. Let's take a look at what is by far the most famous and most often recited prayer to a saint, the Hail Mary:

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of death. Amen

Pray for us sinners. Prayers to saints are ideally requests for intercession—the believer who supplicates the saints asks them to pray for him or her. It is theoretically no different than asking someone on earth to pray for you. In practice obviously there are abuses—it's unfortunately not uncommon for someone to misdirect their worship from God to the saints—but theoretically, theologically, it is simply one follower of Christ asking another to pray for him or her.

[–]MisterGrieves 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I always found that practice strange as it seems to break the top two commandments. Thou shalt have no other God before me. Thou shall not make unto thee any graven images. I suppose the cross and crucifix do the same thing as well.

[–]luke-jrCatholic (admits Francis & co are frauds) 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thou shalt have no other God before me.

Christians don't worship saints before God. A prayer to a saint is always a prayer to God first and foremost.

Thou shall not make unto thee any graven images.

This is a pretty poor translation of the commandment not to make idols. That is, it is wrong to make images that are meant to themselves be worshipped as gods.

[–]OediumAgnostic 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Prayer to saints is not worship any more than asking your fellow parishioners to pray for you is worshiping other people in your congregation. There is scriptural precedent in that Jesus spoke with Elijah and Moses when they were dead, so asking the dead to beseech the one true God (the only object of worship) seems permissible.

And as Jaeil said, Saints don't have Godly attributes like other objects of prayer in Hinduism or other polytheistic systems. It would be more like Ancestor Worship, a different form of idolatry, but even that's not accurate. In any case Saints are not worshiped so the point is moot.

[–]beardybeardorno 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

This entirely depends on one's definition of "gods."

[–]antonivsignostic 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Here's a detailed discussion of the practice.

From a purely pragmatic perspective, prayer to saints was a popular practice among some groups, and it made sense for the Church to go along with it rather than try to stamp it out. You can think of it as a marketing feature, improving God's perceived accessibility. It has no real theological significance.

[–]thakiddd 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

(Catholic) and yes it would be a form of idolotry

[–]Beljkicontextualist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Theological rationalizations will say it is not, but the psychological realty is the same (as are angels, jinni and so on)

[–]JaeilBasically 🐎-> i.imgur.com/lIzWOsr.gif <-♞ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Put simply, the saints are not godlike, while polytheistic gods are. Unless you're redefining "god" to make your argument work it won't follow.