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FPH mods enforced np link standard & brigading/harassment site rules. No presented evidence so-far shows the FPH sub uniquely violating any rules, unless 90% of subreddits are also in violation. Meanwhile, SRS permits non-np links, which is an ACTION that has been used to partly justify FPH's ban. (archive.is)

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[–]AntonioOfVeniceKarma King of late April 2015 91ポイント92ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's a maddening double standard. We can't even post np-links, and yet we're blamed for "brigading" when someone posts a screenshot of a crap mod being a total loser. Meanwhile, SRS openly refuses to use no participation, and nothing happens.

[–]Hamakua 74ポイント75ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's all about the SJW hugbox narrative. If you aren't of the SJW/Feminist/hugbox offenditron way of thinking, you are "the evil".

One of the real reasons why FPH was banned? Because it represented a quickly growing consensus of people who were sick of political correctness. FPH would not have been as popular as it was if there wasn't this huge outside "Healthy at every size" (sub SJW) movement for "body acceptance".

Body acceptance started out really strong, I remember when I first heard about it and the arguments for it were great. It was all about those who were constantly being bullied for no other reason than being larger (not fat, not obese) to come to terms with who they were so the bullying wouldn't get to them. That was the good.

But the evil that followed it eclipsed any bullying could ever achieve. It was the glorification and celebration of an unhealthy lifestyle -further, any criticism of that lifestyle was "hugboxed" out as bigotry and harassment. This all has been going on in concert with other "SJW" camps of thinking and it all goes hand in hand.

FPH was a circle jerky anti-PC subreddit first, and a "fat people hate" subreddit second. Its popularity is what they were attacking- a space on the internet where all of these people from vastly different walks of life coming together attacking a grossly skewed and damaging ideology.

Claim it was brigading, doxxing, harassment, shut the entire subreddit down without any archiving of evidence, or evidence that the admins "gave them a chance to clean up".

I witnessed all of this first hand as I'd lurk for motivation to exercise. 150k subscribers, remember that number and reflect on it. That number is what the hugbox was scared of, not the actions of any individual person.

[–]EAT_DA_POOPOO [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

People just got sick of their shit.

It's one thing to encourage people to feel good about their bodies (if they actually do, which many of them don't - HAES is just an excuse for more denial) and help people make a positive change in their lives.

It's another thing entirely when the obese try to take advantage of peoples' tolerance and good will, and go on the offensive: screeching bloody murder about every woman who dares to care about her body, making bullshit claims that defy the laws of physics (I only eat 500 calories a day, it's my genetics!), or that they're being oppressed by "healthism" because they're leading a lifestyle that is literally killing them is and an extreme burden on the rest of us .

[–]EnigmaMachinen 37ポイント38ポイント  (9子コメント)

FPH served as a good test to see how much the reddit community would react. It has an interesting message behind it, a large population, while also being somewhat unknown. While I fully believe any evidence brought forward won't get it reinstated- I can see these actions being a part of a larger whole- one to see HOW the community of reddit would react- how long it will take for things to subside and two- to justify their actions in regards to wanting to create a "safe space". With these subreddit bans the company can now point to the posts of the unhappy people and say- this is what we want to stop- it is all hate and harassment and thus allowing them the opportunity to close down more subreddits who "contribute" to these "un-safe" things.

[–]Hamakua 26ポイント27ポイント  (6子コメント)

FPH served as a good test to see how much the reddit community would react. It has an interesting message behind it, a large population, while also being somewhat unknown.

Bolded most important part - the mods of FPH were phenomenal at containment, the sub wasn't banned for the reasons Admins are giving, look at your own observations for objective evidence of that. Weren't they something like #19 most popular subreddits, ... while being "somewhat unknown"? - How does that happen? -Fucking solid mod team, that's how.

[–]ShadowbanFtw [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It was actually the 7th most active subreddit.

[–]EnigmaMachinen 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

That is pretty amazing. It looks like someone high up on the ladder caught wind of it and that was that. Essentially a lamb to the slaughter.

[–]m4tthew [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

13th with 153k subscribers and the worst that happened was they rehosted images people uploaded to imgur to poke fun at them.

[–]c0mputar[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

I visit reddit every day, hours on end. I'm subscribed to pretty much all the big subs, and a couple dozen more after that. I didn't know FPH existed until it got banned.

[–]TutkuGulzar 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Did you never use /r/all then i guess?

[–]cfisher2833 22ポイント23ポイント  (2子コメント)

I still don't understand how FPH did anything different than subs like /r/trashy, /r/justneckbeardthings, or even TiA (all subs I like btw). Trashy in particular is damn near identical in that it frequently takes images from Facebook profiles or other subreddits for the specific purpose of making fun of the people in them. Was FPH deemed responsible for what people did outside the sub?

edit: I just checked the front page of /r/trashy; one post is of a pregnant woman's tinder profile (nothing uncensored) and another one is a facebook post about a girl with grills and her name is completely uncensored as well.

[–]XavierMendelWrites for TechRaptor, did modtalkleaks [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

If it means anything both /r/Trashy and /r/JustNeckbeardThings are run by SRS. As for TIA I'm not certain what saved it just yet, but it might just be luck.

[–]skabbo [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

TiA doesnt post any identifying information or photos which may be why.

[–]SuperAngryGuy 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

Most subreddits are also allowed to do email campaigns unlike KiA.

http://i.imgur.com/GzLDfyb.jpg

[–]c0mputar[S] 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

KiA should just continue with email campaigns. Bait the admins into banning KiA for doing something that everyone on reddit knows is perfectly acceptable on just about every other subreddit. As long as the target is like an official PR e-mail or political official, KiA should be completely in the clear given the precedent since the site's inception.

The way to create change is to either violate these unwritten rules that are being applied selectively, or let them cause a massive PR nightmare and potential user exodus if they ban KiA.

[–]m_dubb 30ポイント31ポイント  (15子コメント)

Hello everyone.

I frequented FPH and was a somewhat popular poster there. Yes, I'm a horrible shitlord and what have you. I found it a necessary movement to combat crippling obesity rates, diabetes at an all time high, and "fit shaming", as in the fat acceptance-following bullies who made multiple tumblr accounts to call my girlfriend a "boy bodied anorexic slut", also trashing her artwork they used to praise weeks before. And if you aren't aware, yes, this is very common of "fat acceptance" enthusiasts.

I do NOT approve of everything on the sub- for instance taking random pictures of innocent people I find to be kind of gross behavior I'd put on par with "creep shots". I understand that much of the bullying or discussion was bad natured- but it certainly wasn't harassment or disobeying reddits rules. So, after you get out all your hate for me, please feel free to ask me any questions.

1) There was absolutey no promotion of brigading, harassing, or targeting people. Yes, we were mean, but there was no "organized raids" or anything of the sort that breached any part of a standard sub.

2) The mods reacted the exact same as they would here. Do you actually think that if KIA had a thread up that said "let's harass this woman!" that reddit admins would allow that even for a minute? They'd link to the thread that mods allowed and use it to set an example of why they were banned. It wasn't allowed nor mod supported what-so-ever.

3) I find it kind of upsetting that people (maybe shills or whatever you guys call them) are just immediately believing the "harassment" narrative. Where is reddit's transparency? How quickly KIA forgets that the sub itself has been reported as "organized woman harassment" by multiple media sources despite it being patently untrue.

Just pointing this out before people claim "but it was harassment, I saw some links." Go ahead and click those links, half of them are the "victim" themselves coming to post on FPH and say ridiculous things, as in openly walking into the sub to challenge them, not random targeting.

TLDR; Yes we were mean assholes, yes it hurt some fee'fees, but if there was really this form of harassment the admins would have posted significant proof, and the sub would have been closed a lot earlier- just like it would be here at KIA.

Any questions?

[–]ac4l 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

How do you feel about pineapple on pizza?

[–]dragon_nipples 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Its the SRS, SDR, Femnazi, Tumblr that are pushing that narrative.

[–]m_dubb 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

PS, here's some proof

I subtle shill'd for you guys like a motherfucker, a few other posts too where I recommend people subscribe here just to see the [Censorship] Tag.

Usually I'd start with an interesting censorship anecdote from here, then link to the sub with a nice little explanation <3

[–]Bloke_Named_Bob 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

I was subscribed to FPH too, but I mostly lurked. I agree with everything you said. FPH knew it was in the sights of the admins and the admins were desperate for any excuse to remove the sub. I guess the admins eventually got sick of waiting and decided to just ban them anyway and then lie about it.

[–]m_dubb 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's the other thing...

They just banned nearly every mod involved, and the one/two remaining are only semi response (seem like they've threatened in someway) Basically silenced.

It would be so easy to demonstrate if the mods clearly endorsed harassment. Wiping their accounts without creating archives speaks volumes about admins transparency, and especially the validity of their claims.

[–]TutkuGulzar 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

So you would defend putting imgur staff on the sidebar?

[–]bbrown3979 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Public figures, public pictures and no identifying information or contact information.

[–]m_dubb 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

While I wouldn't necessarily defend it, it still doesn't break any rules. It wasn't even accompanied with harsh words, just publicly available pictures of them to protest their banning of FPH related pics.

Honestly I hate to say "but x y z is worse"... have you visited /r/coontown?

Not sure if I can find it, but there are things like posts where someone is proud to "short-change a dumb nigger and pocket the difference", and people including mods cheer him on and encourage others to do the same.

That's real life hatred, that's real support for disgusting behavior and actual consequences for actual people.

I can't possibly see a criteria where a sidebar image without any explicit message is more damaging or harassment than a mod telling people to purposefully "short-change niggers".

If you want to ban FPH that's fine, but do it within rules, with consistent criteria, and most importantly with transparency. You could even change the rules just to get FPH banned, but you better immediately apply the same standard to the other "hateful" subs- otherwise it's just hypocrisy.

[–]m4tthew [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I would. Those were their employee shots freely available from their own website. I don't see any difference between disallowing that and disallowing KiA to post links to contact pages.

[–]EAT_DA_POOPOO [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Don't post your pictures publicly on the internet if you don't want people to look at them / form opinions you don't like.

[–]Steam-Crow [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I went to SRS just to see what the hoopla was about, Jesus what a cesspool.

[–]Wraith978 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah, they're so sure they have the moral high-ground too. It's rather hilarious.

[–]Helium_PugilistProbably sarcastic, at least snarky 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well you didn't think the rules would be for everyone did you?

[–]c0mputar[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

tips hat to flair

[–]c0mputar[S] 16ポイント17ポイント  (7子コメント)

No evidence so far has been presented that shows non-np reddit links being permitted in FPH, and no evidence that the mods permitted the release of personal information. What I mean by permitted is that it was against the rules and the mods removed such infractions.

That means the only thing FPH got banned for, as far as I know, is that some FPHers or even non-subscribed lurkers of FPH, by their own accord and against the rules of the FPH sub, either harassed other individuals on the site and/or made their own way to the comment/submission and brigaded it by their own accord without any organization or direction from FPH. deep breath

That is not something that can be enforced against by the mods of any subreddit. In essence, FPH got banned for the private actions of some users who may or may not have been subscribed to FPH, and such actions were not encouraged or permitted by the FPH mods, and was discouraged by the FPH rules and np linking policy.

Thus, this unwritten rule that FPH violated can also be used to justify the banning of just about every single subreddit on this site, most of whom actually practice np linking, and have rules and enforce against brigading and harassing when possible. KiA, TiA, MRs, etc... should all expect the worst eventually.

Except, of course, the SRS, which has been granted immunity for their lack of np linking policy, and merely only have to list the rules discouraging brigading. They do not actually have to take any steps to actually try and discourage such actions. However, if another subreddit were to permit non-np linking on such a prolific scale, it would be banned in no time.

I don't dispute that many FPHers were shitty people, and many of them likely violated site or subreddit rules without any direction from the sub or mods, but that is not sufficient grounds to ban the FPH sub. If it were sufficient grounds, then pretty much any subreddit can be targeted for a ban, even with the use of false-flag accounts.

[–]Shitlord_Unbound 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not only did they not allow non-np links but they used AutoModerator to automatically delete such links.

They followed the rules scupulously. They had to or else they would have been banned long ago.

[–]ajayisfour [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I don't get why the admins don't release evidence justifying the ban if for nothing else to shut a hell of a lot of people up and give something for the people defending the ban to point to and group behind. Instead the only evidence presented was written by a user on SRD while the admins hide behind the vague guise of harassment. Much of the hate isn't coming from losing a sub, it stems from the hypocrisy and double standards on display. Also, why is imgur getting a pass? All this came to a head after their pictures appeared on the sidebar. IMO, I think imgur threatened to block all traffic coming from reddit unless the sub was removed. That's why we haven't seen any evidence.

[–]Dannybaker [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

FPH got banned for the private actions of some users who may or may not have been subscribed to FPH, and such actions were not encouraged or permitted by the FPH mods, and was discouraged by the FPH rules and np linking policy.

Really?

Look at the upvotes

http://i.imgur.com/r1bxMYD.jpg

[–]c0mputar[S] [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I see an np link to a deleted post. Was that the same incident that was later found to be a hoax? Either way, which rule is being broken?

[–]phil_katzenberger [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well, they're being meeeeean, you see.

[–]Dannybaker [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

https://archive.today/uW4Di/0cdda34a7cabfa3d0a5b87e028e0b994e440ff4a.png

Not a hoax, look at the replies on FPH, they all participated

Either way, which rule is being broken?

Uhm.. are you serious? Look at those comments

[–]c0mputar[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

So ban the users. I see no involvement or endorsement by the FPH sub or FPH mods. They may have likely violated FPH rules, but I also believe all those comments were also heavily downvoted. In addition, those users, if they came from FPH, may have only discovered the thread through an np link, which is something not even SRS mandates.

Furthermore, the picture was manipulated to make it look like those were the top comments (they had it sorted by "best" when it clearly isn't), when the bottom one was +13 and one above it had -6. Finally, there is no evidence they came to the thread from FPH, even if they were subscribers of FPH. I took a quick glance of some of those accounts and see no FPH posts going back a couple weeks, which isn't confirming evidence by any stretch, but I'm just trying to make a point.

[–]HeyBayBeeUWanTSumFuk 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

People who still go after shitredditsays are living in the past.

Most of the shame brigading is done by subredditdrama now.

[–]c0mputar[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

I personally do not give a shit as long as np links are used. The internet is not a safe place, and reddit shouldn't be made into one.

If any sub encourages or permits brigading, that crosses the line for me since large subs could fuck with small subs.

As for harassment, the line for me is doxxing and actual threats when personal identity and/or location are likely known. Beyond that, I don't give a fuck.

I'm fine with SRD, and I'd be fine with SRS if they used np links and enforced anti-doxxing rules.

If SRDers are brigading, they do so on their own without taking direction from the sub or mods as far as anyone is concerned. SRD shouldn't be punished for that.

[–]Alexlincoln2 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah, srd is shit, but the mods can and will ban people if they find out they are brigading

[–]HexezWork 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

ShitRedditSays is not a downvote brigade. Do not downvote any comments in the threads linked from here! Pretend the rest of Reddit is a museum of poop. Don't touch the poop.

I'm just gonna post a direct link seriously its bad don't brigade or harass them, guys come on don't do it... stop...super cereal guuuyyyysss.

[–]motherbrain111 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I just noticed theres a pic to the right with Pao saying "Defreezer of peaches" and they're proud. I hope its sarcasm. But I sadly think its not.

[–]rjep2 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

How many times do you need to hear it to understand. Some are more equal than others.

[–]chungEchungs [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

We've been over this several times now - the most likely explanation for their ban is that they dug up a picture of the Imgur team and posted it on their sidebar to make fun of them.

[–]c0mputar[S] [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Dug up seems to imply it was private. It was publicly available on June 10th and earlier on their http://imgur.com/about page, under the now removed "meet the team" section. http://imgur.com/ is only one of the most heavily visited website in the world.

Did that cross over into doxxing territory? That is dubious considering it was only pictures, and the names were deliberately removed and the contact information and source not provided.

If that is considered doxxing then good god...

But you're probably onto something, but it wasn't the sidebar pictures specifically that got them banned, instead, it was the fact that they picked a fight with the imgur team at all.

[–]chungEchungs [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I never said it was doxxing - and I don't think it is - but it would probably be enough to violate the new "safe space" policy or whatever.

Its disingenuous to try to paint FPH as a bunch of angels though - they knew they were picking fights.

[–]c0mputar[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

There safe space policy is completely unwritten as far as I can tell.

I certainly wasn't painting all FPHers as a bunch of angels. Some were certainly not.

[–]chungEchungs [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

There safe space policy is completely unwritten as far as I can tell.

Yep good pont - there was no way for them to know beforehand if they were even violating any rules.

I certainly wasn't painting all FPHers as a bunch of angels. Some were certainly not.

Fair enough.

[–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]AutoModeratorAutomated sealioness[M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Your comment contained a link to another subreddit, and has been removed, in accordance with Rule 4.

    I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

    [–]Petrarch1603 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    I think the final straw was posting the pictures of the imgur staff on FPH. Imgur probably complained about it to the admins. It is a peculiar time of year to do this as it coincides pretty closely with the end of the school year. Lots of adolescents with time on their hand are available for trolling.

    [–]c0mputar[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    I describe why this is mostly bs here. The pictures were not a violation of any site rule that we know of, and if it did violate some unwritten rule, then virtually every subreddit is guilty of violating it.

    The truth is that the FPH mods picked a fight with a big friend of the reddit admins, and the admins made up an excuse to ban the sub to get back at the mods.

    [–]DragonDragon_ -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Iam gonna try agian.

    You say this, and i have said this to people on other sub-reddits, but then they throw this in my face: https://archive.is/qHom2

    Is any of this refutebul, It does kinda seem like they have a case?

    [–]c0mputar[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    There are numerous rebuttals responding to that comment in particular, one of them being mine in fact. Make sure you look at the direct link for any updates.

    [–]DragonDragon_ [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    Okey could u show me :D iam looking at the comments and there are like 400 of them! But i would agree its pretty weak, the things the user came up with in that post!

    EDIT: I meant show me your comment! EDIT2: NVM FOUND IT.