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KotakuInAction

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all 82 comments
[–]codahighland 251 points252 points253 points  (29 children)
Don't jump the gun here. I know any opportunity to knock her down a peg would be welcome, but look a little more closely -- she HASN'T changed her Patreon.
It says that patronage supports her all of her projects, not just her games or her articles, and the patron reward has says that patrons get early access to her "other larger projects".
All she's done is updated the text to reflect one more "larger project" that she's involved in.
Mounting an e-mail campaign here will do nothing but waste Patreon's time.
[–]evil-doer 29 points30 points31 points  (4 children)
It says that patronage supports her all of her projects
so.. why cant everyone make an account saying this? this covers everything. you could take a picture of the shit you took each morning and say that was your project for the day.
youre allowed to just put a big asterisk as the reason for the account?
[–]GarrioValere 19 points20 points21 points  (1 child)
Anyone can do it. It's just that not everyone will have the privilege of being funded in doing so. And that's problematic.
[–]Doomblaze 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
I see what you did there
[–]DeeDoubsFounder of Kek's Giving Day 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
The reason Hotwheels changed his page in the first place is because the project he was supporting with it broke the new rules. That's why you don't just blanket cover everything... because then you are responsible for making sure everything you do follows the rules.
[–]codahighland 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Pretty much, yeah. I get the feeling that Patreon thinks the free market is supposed to handle that -- that not having well-defined rewards will deter people from patronizing users that do that. But you're not even REQUIRED to have patronage rewards.
[–]SaltyChimp 27 points28 points29 points  (3 children)
That way she can beg indirect for money for her CONjob and nobody knows how much money actually will go that project. She did the same thing with her game jam and her donation button, everything on one big pile.
[–]ZeusKabob 20 points21 points22 points  (2 children)
That's because Rebel Game Jam and CON are both scams for money. I mean, it's literally in the name.
[–]kamon123 8 points9 points10 points  (1 child)
Its her m.o. to be vague about anything. Leaves her huge loopholes. Anytime she speaks and makes a promise pay attention to the words she uses. Lots of vagueness and maybes or sentences that can describe any number of things.
[–]ExplosionSanta 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
Yup, just take a look at her submitted court documents. All stuff that sounds scary as hell at first reading, then you look at it with a jaundiced eye and notice it's almost entirely free from susbtance.
[–]baconatedwaffle 61 points62 points63 points  (0 children)
this. you don't want to condition patreon into believing complaints about this person are baseless
[–]IdioticUsername 14 points15 points16 points  (1 child)
Supports all of her projects.
She has no projects, she's been "planning" a Game Jam for like a year and a half, CON is exactly what it's acronym states. There's nothing of substance to CON it's just a place for other giant babies who have "survived" online harassment to complain. She gets paid $40k a year from Patreon to sit on her fat ass and tweet all day and travel on other peoples' dime.
I'm not taking it out on you OP, I'm just tired of this greasy, bloated sociopath being held up as some upstanding citizen and a beacon of morality.
[–]USonic 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
The money she gets paid comes from idiots that believe in her crap, so I can't really care about that. I just care for the impact she has on the gaming industry, which is proportional to the attention she gets.
[–]DontTouchYourKnob 7 points8 points9 points  (1 child)
So how long can she go without creating a game before it becomes apparent that Crash Override Network is her sole focus now and that's where her Patreon money is going? The people who signed up to her Patreon didn't do so for Crash Override Network, they did so for "games" (supposedly). Leaving "games and other stuff" at the end of the title is a loophole to evade the rule about changing purposes.
[–]DMXONLIKETENVIAGRAS 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
the people that give her money would applaud her if she literally wiped her ass with it
[–]bgp1845 14 points15 points16 points  (10 children)
crash override, once they file it for an official non-profit, is just a way for her to funnel her patreon money to be tax free.
she's a schemer, but she ain't dumb.
[–]codahighland 10 points11 points12 points  (5 children)
That's not Patreon's concern, though. That's the IRS's concern. And since tax-exempt non-profits have to keep publicly-visible accounting of their finances, the only money Quinn can claim as tax-deductible is the part she ACTUALLY spends on Crash Override -- any money she pays to herself is taxable as income tax.
[–]TBradley 1 point2 points3 points  (4 children)
It's perfectly legal to pay yourself a salary for working at your own non-profit as long as your salary is not 'unreasonable'. If she makes herself the director she could probably get away with drawing ~$100K salary, especially if she lives in a high cost of living city, assuming she gets that kind of funding.
This is why there are charity watch sites that report on how much money is spent on administration and such.
[–]codahighland 8 points9 points10 points  (3 children)
I know that. That's why I said income tax -- the non-profit doesn't pay taxes, but YOU have to pay taxes on whatever the non-profit pays you.
[–]TBradley 4 points5 points6 points  (2 children)
Ah, well as the director she can still use that non-taxable money on many of the things she would normally have had to use her personal income on. Pay friends for "goods and services", get a nice office space, company catered lunches, company car etc.
It makes a lot of sense for these people getting Patreon funding for simply "being harassed" or "help in overcoming the patriarchy".
[–]codahighland 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
At least in California: Company car has to be driven primarily for company business and company-catered lunches have to be done for the company's benefit and not the employees. But yes, loopholes abound.
[–]TBradley 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
When your business is "advocacy" or some such then simply going to social functions becomes "company business". It's a pretty nice gig if you can make it work and don't have any qualms with playing people and skirting rules. A bit funny that they probably hate the people doing the same thing in the finance industries and such.
[–]NilesCaulder 5 points6 points7 points  (1 child)
Say, you might have hit on a very important bit here.
She's supposedly still "in hiding" in Europe [edit: not sure on this, I'm going on memory] in a trip that she was planning before TZP was published, and in January 1st the EU had a new VAT law going into effect. This law, among other things, would have a large impact on small digital shops and e-service providers by potentially exposing them to massive taxation: http://www.forbes.com/sites/janetnovack/2014/05/15/european-vat-10-things-online-sellers-need-to-know-about-taxes-on-digital-goods-and-services/
And the e-service thing is where Patreon comes in. It's entirely possible that Patreon users in the EU would be subject to the increased taxes. A non-profit status would be perfect in order to funnel the Patreon money, and it would explain why CON came out of fucking nowhere to the point it has a ludicrous 200+ day countdown clock.
Hmmmmm...
[–]madhousechild 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
No I think she's been on the West Coast. Sounded to me like Southern California but I could be misremembering.
[–]DMXONLIKETENVIAGRAS 3 points4 points5 points  (1 child)
id argue that she is pretty dumb but comes from a rich family that have experience dodging tax
[–]Ekaros 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
It's not always about what you know, but who you know... And those people do the grunt work and know their stuff...
[–]levera 6 points7 points8 points  (1 child)
It will waste the time of the people who send the email, too!
[–]codahighland 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Good point!
[–]Sniper98g 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Her Patreon explicitly stated and still states "This patreon is for the crazy amount of free content I create". Running an an anti harassment squad is not "content".
Sure she has "other misc things I create" on there as well, but by this reckoning you could make a Patreon that was for "taking pictures of dogs, dog related content, and other misc things I create", then you turn around and use it to sponsor a neo-nazi rally under the "other misc things I create" clause.
If all it takes to avoid the changing purpose rule is to say "other misc things I create" somewhere on the page that whole rule is kind of meaningless.
[–]Leoofmoon 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Yet I don't really see a reason to remove Hot wheels Patrion because he was within the rules and they did this a month later.
[–]MrPejorative 28 points29 points30 points  (7 children)
The amount of donations is ridiculous when compared to someone like Lazy Game Reviews, who obviously loves games and makes a ton of interesting content.
It is weird looking through the Featured users and to see how much people are getting for making low quality junk. The internet really is the perfect market for some people. If you're completely shameless and willing to put a price on things most people would be too embarrassed to give away for free you will find someone who'll pay for it.
[–]MyLittleFedora[S] 7 points8 points9 points  (4 children)
Wait till you see how much LWu makes to create games she releases commercially anyway.
[–]MrPejorative 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
Wait till you see how much LWu makes to create games she releases commercially anyway.
What do they call when a company is operating at a loss and then gets a bailout from the people so they don't go under. Oh yeah, a bailout. They should call it: bailout.com
[–]ClockedG 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
I believe not even that. I thought she pimped her Patreon to pay for another staff member to deal with GamerGate harassment!
And I'm guessing the staff member is herself and the harassment is whatever bullshit she can come up with for the day.
[–]IMULTRAHARDCORE 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
Is it legal to double dip like that?
[–]MyLittleFedora[S] 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Probably. It makes for an... interesting tax situation, however. I hope she has a good accountant.
[–]nybbas 5 points6 points7 points  (1 child)
Being a damsel in distress fucking pays.
[–]DoctorBarkanine 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Being a self-made damsel pays more. I guess the cries to end damselization from them really mean "no one but me should be a damsel!"
[–]Just_made_this_now 6 points7 points8 points  (6 children)
I'm an independent game developer, writer, hacker...
The first is highly contestable, the second debatable, and the third is... what?!
[–]Cerxi32k get! 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
a hack
FTFH
[–]AThrowawayAsshole 2 points3 points4 points  (4 children)
I honestly need to see proof of her 'hacking'. Unless being a skiddie counts now.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points  (3 children)
Hacking can be understood in the old way — as having a mastery of and a specific mindset regarding computer related stuff, as well as a drive to innovate.
Because, you know, Twine.
[–]AThrowawayAsshole 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
Using Twine is considered mastery now? I'm not insulting you, I'm insulting the rationalization she must use because if that's considered mastery then when I was writing software back in the '90's using just a text based compiler that must make me Master of the Goddamned Universe.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
Yeah, that's why I mentioned it.
I think Josh calls himself a media/culture hacker or something like that as well. It's a bit arrogant, no?
[–]Dwavenhobble 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
technically she added it....... which isn't technically breaking the rules as she's still committing to the other things too.
She also changed it October time to add photography to the list of stuff she was doing.
[–]cpl-Tyrannus 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
all the 'crazy amounts of free content I create'. ROFL there are people that make 100 x the amount of free content she makes at a better quality and without a patreon. what a fucking joke
[–]OracleofGaming 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
Honestly this is probably just a ploy to cover up the fact that she hasn't produced a single thing since last August with the approximately $15,000 she's made from her patrons.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points  (1 child)
4 grand a month for doing absolutely nothing but publicly shitting herself on Twitter.
Absolutely criminal.
[–]AThrowawayAsshole 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
I call Patreon 'grifter welfare' since all of its A-list 'clients' seem to be people too incompetent to run a real con.
[–]Rygar_the_Beast 10 points11 points12 points  (0 children)
This is how stupid these people are. They go on to promote the CON job saying they are paying out of pocket and the first thing that gets done is changing the patreon to feature the CON job?
They are not paying out of pocket their donators are paying for this. Freaking BBC just did a little piece saying that they are funding this... how are they funding this? What are they dropping, three fitty?
Well, the template that the website uses was a 6 buck template so i guess three fity is a lot.
[–]ScreamingDoktorSurvived #GGinDC 2015 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
You've got the facts wrong about Hotwheels' Patreon. The one that originally supported 8chan was always going to go down when the new rules came from on high. It didn't matter what he changed it to, it was always going to go away.
Hotwheels said on a stream a while back that he'd feel guilty for putting up a Patreon while 8chan was unstable. Once the DDoS shit stops, he'll put up his Patreon again.
[–]Dragofireheart 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Patreon is a pile of shit, confirmed.
[–]SatoshiKamasutra 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Unfortunately, I don't think this is going to fly. Her Patreon's purpose was always "supporting Zoe Quinn". Activism, making video games and whatever other bullshit were just selling points on why you might want to support Zoe Quinn. The fact that she's added a new activity to her roster doesn't change the fact that the purpose is still the same as was before: Supporting Zoe Quinn.
[–]jet_lagg 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
I think the Patreon rules themselves are bullshit, but from what I'm reading Quinn is not breaking those rules. I agree with the others that say emailing Patreon about this will only cause them to take complaints against Quinn less seriously in the future, even if they are legitimate.
[–]madhousechild 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
All you have to do is add "etc." Then Brianna can use the funds given for hiring an assistant for "etc" and Zoe can use funds given for making games for "etc" and Fredrick can use the funds given for 8chan on "etc."
Ha silly me that only goes for SJWs!
[–]godlikeGadgetry 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Isn't patreon's headquarters in San Francisco? If so that would make a hell of a lot of sense regarding them keeping Literally Wu's and LW's accounts open, and closing Hotwheel's patreon.
[–]muniea 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
Mr Wheels had his Patreon taken down over the new rules against porn and wasn't allowed to make it about something else to salvage it. This is not the same thing.
[–]madhousechild 5 points6 points7 points  (1 child)
They said he couldn't change it to anything even if it wasn't porn-related.
[–]Pengothing 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Not to mention there's a lot of actual porn on the site.
[–]gossipninjaArmed with PHP shurikens 4 points5 points6 points  (1 child)
I for one am shocked at this double standard! /s
Patreon isn't even trying to hide their bias.
[–]TheColourOfHeartache 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
Lets email them first, and complain after their response.
[–]Hurlyburly3 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
I dunno, I think its different because her account isn't being suspended a month from now. That was probably more the issue with Hotwheels.
[–]iadagracadefinitely not a black guy 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Like no one saw that coming "we're not taking money till after the media blitz!"
[–]Varibash 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
She's trying to siphon her funds into what she hopes will become a nonprofit org.... She's a con artist
[–]Paxalot 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Patreon donations are fanboy donations. People think Zoe is a celebrity so they want to keep her as a celebrity - enough that they'll pay for her celebrity lifestyle. If people want to waste their money on Patreon that's their prerogative. However the IRS is very interested in their share. So far Zoe has taken in all kinds of money under dubious circumstances and I'm betting she has not paid a nickel in taxes. If she goes the non profit route it would open her up to public complaints about her financial shenanigans.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
Email Patreon.
[–]blwout comment score below threshold-19 points-18 points-17 points  (14 children)
Actually, its because his site was filled with kiddy porn. He thought he could change his patreon as sort of a loop hole and it didn't work. If he wants to feed his cat he'll have stop feeding numerous pedophiles as part of his day job.
[–]LWMR 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
You lie.
[–]murderhuman 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
no, 8chan does not. cp is removed almost instantaneously.
[–]Puckered_anus_mouth 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
really? you mind proving that? the only cp that doesn't get removed very quickly is when a few SJW's post it to odd boards that Mods normally don't check.
[–]BigBadXenuDaddy 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
You Ghazi kids are just so, so, so cute. Now, run back your little sandbox and go play.
[–]Byrnhildr_Sedai 0 points1 point2 points  (9 children)
Your going to need to source that, no one's shown that there is sustained cp.
[–]blwout -1 points0 points1 point  (8 children)
Dan Olson did actually
[–]Byrnhildr_Sedai 0 points1 point2 points  (7 children)
Those are words, not a source.
[–]blwout -1 points0 points1 point  (6 children)
Yep. Sources usually contain words.
[–]Byrnhildr_Sedai 0 points1 point2 points  (5 children)
I asked for a source in my original statement, no one has shown me a source on it.
[–]blwout -1 points0 points1 point  (4 children)
Dan Olson's article is the source. Look it up. Its not hard
[–]Byrnhildr_Sedai 0 points1 point2 points  (3 children)
If you want people to believe you and take you seriously, when asked to provide a source, get one for them, don't make them look for it.
Also, Mr Olson's claim is dubious, and questionable.
[–]blwout -1 points0 points1 point  (2 children)
I honestly don't care if child porn defenders take me seriously or not
[–]Byrnhildr_Sedai 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
So, what your saying is there's no proof.
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