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Feminist, environmentalist, writer

No, They Didn't Do the Same Thing: Why It's Dangerous to Compare Josh Duggar and Lena Dunham

Posted: Updated:
A couple weeks ago, I wrote about Josh Duggar. In the comments section, someone made a comparison to Lena Dunham; the author came to the conclusion that she got a pass for molesting her sister because she's a feminist liberal with a show on HBO. He claimed by society not condemning Dunham, it was perpetuating a double standard. A number of other people chimed in -- some agreed, some didn't. My friend Rhylee pointed the comment out to me, and I considered replying, but ultimately decided not to because the two incidents were so obviously dissimilar that I figured this argument would be a one-off.

Boy, was I wrong.
On June 4, 2015, Bristol Palin, famous for being the daughter of former Alaska governor and U.S. vice president candidate Sarah Palin, published a blog post catchily entitled, "Let's Get This Straight, Liberals -- What Kinds of Molestation are Acceptable?" In it, she makes the same comparison between the actions of Lena Dunham and the actions of Josh Duggar; she rails against the unfairness of the liberal media's double standards and concludes, "Liberals in today's media can do no wrong, while conservatives can do no right."

Sarah Palin then promoted her daughter's blog in a lengthy post on Facebook; she, too, espouses the Dunham/Duggar comparison, sympathizing, "I hate for anyone to go through this game liberals are allowed to play, relentlessly attacking on an uneven playing field until a conservative's career, relationships and reputation are destroyed." Her appearance on Hannity three days ago was filled with more of the same.
I can't believe we need to have this conversation, but apparently, we do. So, let's get two things straight right off the bat:
1) This is not a game. This is a serious situation about a sexual predator and children and the family that protected the former and devalued the latter.
2) This is not about politics.
Lena Dunham and Josh Duggar did different things. Lena Dunham, at the age of 7, asked her mother if her 1-year-old little sister had a vagina like hers. A few days later, she looked -- yes, in fact, her little sister did have a smaller version of the same vagina.
This is not a perversion. This is not sexual. Genitalia is not and should not be inherently sexual. This is anatomical curiosity, from a young child, that involved no sexual touching and no sexual pleasure. Developmental psychologist Ritch Savin-Williams, director of the Sex and Gender Lab at Cornell University, told Slate, "This is clearly not a case of abuse. Children have been doing this stuff forever and ever and ever and ever, and they will do it forever and ever and ever."
Admittedly, Dunham writes about another experience with her little sister in which she tried to bribe her with candy and tried "anything a sexual predator might do to woo a small suburban girl." While this is a joke in poor taste, and has been criticized as demonstrative of Dunham's privilege, it's a joke made precisely because she wasn't a sexual predator -- she was a little girl.
Josh Duggar has admitted to molesting five girls, including four of his sisters. He was 14 and 15 when he fondled the girls both while they were asleep and while they were awake and both under and over their clothes.
This is sexual. Fondling is sexual. Josh Duggar was intent on sexual pleasure when he committed these acts. That, and the respective ages of Dunham and Duggar, makes these situations very different.
The Palins have asserted the liberal media controls what is and is not publicized, and, furthermore, that these are similar incidents the media treated differently because of the politics of the people involved.
No.
No, no, no, no, no.
That position isn't only incorrect -- the incidents are not the same -- it's dangerous. It's dangerous because it minimizes and trivializes sexual assault.
We live and operate in rape culture. Now, before you start yelling that Josh Duggar didn't rape his sisters, he only molested them, let's have a conversation about what rape culture actually is -- because it's not just about rape.
Rape culture is our refusal to accept that most sexual assaults (be it penetrative rape or something else) are committed by ordinary men, not men that would otherwise seem to be violent criminals. Rape culture is women being afraid to report sexual assault because they fear backlash and victim blaming. Rape culture is women being told not to dress provocatively, to carry a rape whistle, to never let their drink out of sight, to not walk home alone at night, instead of men being told not to commit sexual assault. Rape culture is blatant disbelief when a woman says she's been assaulted.
Rape culture is a product of sexism and a patriarchal society, which is why when we talk about rape culture, we talk about men assaulting women. Please note: this should never be construed to say that women can't assault men, that women can't assault other women or that men can't assault other men. Rather, the notion of rape culture is used describe the dominant sexual assault patterns in our society, where they come from and where they lead. It's used to describe what a woman faces when she wants to come forward about an attack. It's what she will face as she attempts to regain some sense of normality in her life. If she comes forward, she will be doubted, she will potentially be publicly vilified and she will lose her privacy.
This is all very serious.
What's not serious is a normal exploration of the human body where there was no victim and no sexual gratification. In fact, such an exploration is normal and natural -- children want to explore both their own bodies and the bodies of their friends and families.
By raising Lena Dunham's actions to the level of Josh Duggar's, you provide an opportunity for people to look at what happened and say, "That's not that bad. That's not a difficult thing to admit to. Sexual assault isn't that serious, after all." Calling something sexual assault that clearly isn't helps no one; worse, it diminishes the trauma of real sexual assault and its consequences.
And that, Palins, is the real outrage.
Need help? In the U.S., call 1-800-656-HOPE for the National Sexual Assault Hotline.

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  • Steve Flesher · Top Commenter · Accountant at DOBRZYNSKI ACCOUNTING
    I am sorry but this IS about politics. It was brought to our attention 12 years after the fact. The family has moved on, he was a minor and what he did was wrong just like Lena Dunham who used her baby sister to act out her sexual curiosity. Pleasuring herself in the same bed as a minor girl? Palin is not defending Duggars behavior yet by pointing out the lefts constant double standard, many members of the media have hysterically run out of defend Dunham which only proves Palin's point. I'm glad she was brave enough to speak on it.
    • Vicki Corum · Top Commenter
      Are you kidding Steve? Ok lets do some perspective on this. When you or your friends were 7 was there any consciousness about sexuality? If you showed yours to someone while looking at theirs was it sexually motivated? If so you were way ahead of everybody else in the world at that age. Now jump forward to 14...you are a 14 year old boy...anything sexual in your sphere? Just about everything. Did you at 14 ever once consider touching your SISTER sexually both over clothing and bare skin, both while she was awake and while she was ASLEEP? Case closed (if you are hormonally regular and honest that is).
      Reply · Like
      · 37 · 48 minutes ago
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    • Evan Lee · Top Commenter · Curriculum Developer/ Instructional Designer at Fulton County Schools Teaching Museum
      Palin is the one who makes it about politics. if you don't understand the difference between a 15 year old molesting his sisters and a 7 year old's natural non sexual curiosity you're trying to NOT get reality
      Reply · Like
      · 27 · 43 minutes ago
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    • Andy Ab
      Vicki Corum So what you are saying is that if josh was 7 it would have been ok
      Reply · Like
      · 11 · 42 minutes ago
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  • Bonnie Oxford
    Dunham admitted a lot of her behavior continued until she was SEVENTEEN!!!!! She admitted she would bribe her little baby sister to kiss her for as long as possible. She admitted she would lie in bed next to her little sister's "muscular, sweaty body" (gross) while she slept and pleasure herself until she was SEVENTEEN!!!!! If Josh Duggar had admitted to lying in bed next to one of his younger brothers' "sweaty" bodies and pleasuring himself until he was SEVENTEEN, you would be screaming that he was a molester. If one is a molester based on that behavior, so is the other one. Take your liberal double standards and shut up.
     
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  • Susan Knight · Top Commenter · Works at Self-Employed
    One of my parents' favorite sayings: Two wrongs don't make a right. How anyone who tries to defend a child molester in any way, shape or form sleeps at night is beyond me.
    • William Webb
      It seems if you are a politician who votes the Republican line or a reality "star" with a "godly" reputation then child molestation is not such a big deal.
      Reply · Like
      · 4 · 32 minutes ago
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    • Anna April-Ross · Top Commenter
      William Webb That is an ASSumption on your part.
      Reply · Like
      · 2 · 20 minutes ago
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  • Gisselle Padilla · Top Commenter
    Guess the author missed the part where Lena in her own words stated that she would bribe her sister with money and TV shows to get her to do things. And how she admitted that anything a pedophile would do to lure a kid, she did to her sister. Stop focusing on when Lena started touching her sister and look at how long the abuse went on (ten years per Lena). At some point in that decade of touching her sister she crossed over the "innocent exploration" line and went into the molestation line.
    • Tyler Austin · Top Commenter
      I very much doubt you read the book.
      I think you are just selectively misquoting things you read online.
      Reply · Like
      · 3 · 25 minutes ago
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    • Susi Learn · Top Commenter
      comparing the duggar case to dunham is just deflection. whether she was right or wrong, this isn't about her, it is about a 15 young man who knew what he was doing, and what he was doing was fondling and digitally penetrating 5 year old girls. this is about the father trying to cover it up until the statute of limitations was up. this is about how the 'counseling' consisted of sending josh to a family friend who was a cop, to talk to him. the friend being now in prison for child porn. the whole situation is one of a CRIME being covered up and marginalized. and sadly, it is about the victims who have been brainwashed into thinking it was no big deal as long as they 'forgave' him.
      Reply · Like
      · 3 · 22 minutes ago
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    • Eileen Richardson
      Tyler Austin, it reads as follows: As she grew, I took to bribing her for her time and affection: one dollar in quarters if I could do her makeup like a “motorcycle chick.” Three pieces of candy if I could kiss her on the lips for five seconds. Whatever she wanted to watch on TV if she would just “relax on me.” Basically, anything a sexual predator might do to woo a small suburban girl I was trying.

      I shared a bed with my sister, Grace, until I was seventeen years old. She was afraid to sleep alone and would begin asking me around 5:00 P.M. every day whether she could sleep with me. I put on a big show of saying no, taking pleasure in watching her beg and sulk, but eventually I always relented. Her sticky, muscly little body thrashed beside me every night as I read Anne Sexton, watched reruns of SNL, sometimes even as I slipped my hand into my underwear to figure some stuff out.
      Reply · Like
      · 2 · 16 minutes ago
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  • Aubrey Rudy
    I'm a liberal and I'm uncomfortable with a lot of what Lena Dunham did and I don't give it a pass. They were different ages, it's true, but Dunham also seems skeevey and I know a lot of other liberals who feel the same way. Dunham is problematic in numerous ways and I don't embrace her as a liberal icon. It's not all, and should not be, us vs them. What Lena Dunham did or didn't do does not in any way change the fact that what Josh Duggar did is very wrong.
    • Sharon Jefferson · Top Commenter · Works at Cleveland State University
      So true. This is not about liberals or conservatives. It's about right and wrong. I also have issues with what Dunham did as well as Duggar.
      Reply · Like
      · 1 · 21 minutes ago
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    • Stephen Gee · Top Commenter
      Agreed. Josh Duggar did a terrible thing. And Lena Dunham is creepy. One does not excuse the other.
      Reply · Like
      · 1 · 20 minutes ago
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    • Tenja Daniels · Top Commenter
      Aubrey@ I agree. I have not read her book and am not actually sure who she is, but whoever whatever pointing sidewise saying but she did it too holds no weight. It has a creepy echo as Josh's parents saying they spoke to others in their homeschool/church group and it happens a lot. If you are in a group that many families diddle their sisters......... run.
      Reply · Like
      · 10 minutes ago
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  • Bryan Moberg · Top Commenter
    nothing derails your credibility faster than pulling the "rape culture" card
    • Victoria Baker · Top Commenter · Works at Self
      Ding ding ding! And Bryan Moberg proves the point of the article!
      Reply · Like
      · 50 seconds ago
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  • Debbie Cansler
    It is a shame Bristol Palin was raised by Sarah Palin because I like her on Dancing with the Stars but when she goes around saying stupid comments then I Know she is truly Sarah Palins daughter. Just a shame.
       
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    • Brenda M Cook · Top Commenter · Bank Teller at Wells fargo bank
      unless you or someone in your family has been sexually assaulted, you CAN NOT understand how it affects you. Especially if it is a young child that it happens to.....it can and usually does mess them up for the rest of their lives
      • Mindy Millsaps Crain · Top Commenter · Forsyth Tech
        Yes, yes it does. Apparently there are many people who either have never experienced this horror nor has anyone in their family experienced it. If they had, they would know what they were talking about.
        Reply · Like
        · 2 · 32 minutes ago
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      • Paul Rivers
        Yeah, except it quickly become politicized, and notice how when the girls he touched say it was bad but they weren't horribly traumatized for the rest of their lives or anything, suddenly you guys don't believe them either.

        Seems like "you cannot understand how it affects them" has been turned into meaning "Only I'm allowed to say how it affects them, not even they are allowed to have an opinion if it disagrees with mine".
        Reply · Like
        · 13 minutes ago
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    • John Diatalevi · Top Commenter · Hudson High School
      It comes as no surprise to me that the Palins can't see the difference. It amazes me even more that anyone cares what the Palins think. That has to be the most irrelevant family in America.
      • Stephen Gee · Top Commenter
        And yet, you can't restrain yourself from posting about them...
        Reply · Like
        · 2 · 20 minutes ago
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    • Allison Graham
      sorry but Lena molested her sister, pint blank end of story and she should be held accountable just like josh is being.
      both are disgusting vile human beings. idc how many times it was done both molested their siblings, both should be off our TVs.
       
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