上位 200 件のコメント表示する 500

[–]aidenr 950ポイント951ポイント  (106子コメント)

Aaron Swartz met BetterJosh wandering along a path, angry and alone. BetterJosh asked Aaron, "How should we defend the truth?"

Aaron replied quickly, "Preserve it carefully and share it without bias."

"Even the painful truths?"

"Especially those," said Saint Aaron.

"But shall we stop if the world turns on us?" plead BetterJosh, pain in his heart reflecting in his eyes.

Before he could answer, Aaron was whisked away in cuffs and never seen again. BetterJosh, enlightened, began to record the story.

[–]-ARETE-------------- 192ポイント193ポイント  (37子コメント)

Aaron Swartz, co-founder of Reddit, expressing his concerns for private companies censoring people in the future:

http://mic.com/articles/38635/aaron-swartz-interview-video-months-before-his-suicide-he-warned-corporations-could-censor-the-internet

Mocking our Chairman or making fat posts hit the front page is fun while the lulz last, but we need to think of something more long lasting. And effective. If the Reddit admins are willing to fuck over its userbase to get their hands on that sweet, sweet advertising revenue, well here's what we can do. Let's go after the Reddit sponsors. Make them know of the unhappiness and anger here. Make sure it becomes common knowledge that to advertise on this site is to get your name tainted in a never-ending series of memes and abuse. If the admins thought that their draconian censorship would make this site more packageable to the corporate sponsors, let's make them think again.

https://imgur.com/4pLoUoU

[–]_TunnelSnakes_Rule 93ポイント94ポイント x3 (29子コメント)

We need to get people to stop buying reddit gold. That's a small step but money talks.

Edit: My first gilded comment!I'm honored, reddit

[–]Westboro_Fag_Tits 70ポイント71ポイント x2 (10子コメント)

It really isn't a small step... it's rather large. On previous profiles, I probably purchased gold 50 times or so. I know I won't be buying anymore and neither will many other people moving forward. It's only like $4/unit, but if 100 frequent buyers decide to never buy it again, then that's $10000+ in lost revenue.

Going through posts over the last 24 hours, I've run into several comments that I would've gilded before just to show my strong agreement with what was said, but I will not financially support this site again. Between /r/TheFappening and FPH being banned, I really can't wait for a successor to take must of reddit's community away.

Edit: I'm not grateful for the gold, but I can appreciate quality trolling when I see it.

[–]GoodGuyNixon 21ポイント22ポイント  (5子コメント)

Seriously. From what I understand, reddit actually makes more profit off of gold purchases than current advertising revenue. People underestimate how significant of an impact they can have by boycotting it.

(P.S. Nobody fucking gild this comment. I'm not fucking around.)

EDIT: JESUS SHIT YOU FUCKBAGS

[–]Sarcassafras 18ポイント19ポイント  (1子コメント)

you knew exactly what you were doing.

[–]MrLancaster 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He sure did, the yuppie...

[–]BrokenHuman 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think admins can give gold for free. But yeah.. Please stop buying gold for the regime.

[–]choikwa 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fukn redditards. always pursuing the opposite.

[–]nahjil567 23ポイント24ポイント  (1子コメント)

While I'm torn on FPH being banned, being a self-loathing fat person myself, TheFappening was banned for good legal reasons. 99% of the content there was illegally obtained and in direct violation of the TOS. Reddit/Imgur could have been and probably was subjected to either a court order to remove the content and/or faced liability in a defamation of character lawsuit which damages could be somewhat mitigated by showing they took steps to remove the offending content in a timely manner. If you want that sort of thing head to 4chan that is where it originated anyway.

[–]Phyzzx 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Way more peeps need to read this.

[–]Justkevin87 20ポイント21ポイント  (12子コメント)

Fuck the assholes who keep buying this shit ironically.

Edit: Really? 3 people? I hope you bought this before all this crap went down.

[–]butter14 13ポイント14ポイント  (10子コメント)

It's just people offloading the gold they already bought.

[–]randombitsofstars 8ポイント9ポイント  (9子コメント)

I hope so. That would be a good way to "get rid of it" so to speak.

[–]Nomicakes 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

I wasn't aware you could pre-buy Gold. Why would anyone do that?

[–]randombitsofstars 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

That way if you see a really good comment you don't have to go through the hassle of buying, I guess.

[–]EllenPaoIsaGiantCUNT 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is actually a pretty big step and can help point things in the right direction.

[–]Karunamon 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Remember that you can buy gold in blocks and then give them out later - I'd not be surprised to learn that most of the gildings being given out were paid for long ago.

[–]Cardboard_roll 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

That's an awful solution to the problem. If they're chasing advertising revenue, allegedly to the detriment of it's user-base, it's because that user-base isn't buying enough reddit gold. To stop buying reddit gold would drive Reddit even further into the arms of the advertisers everyone here so detests in order to just make ends meet.

Arguably, the answer is that everyone should buy gold, to free reddit's mods from editorial bias caused by media money.

And if that doesn't sound like common sense, then that's because tonight we've discovered why markets fail democracy in the end.

[–]Dalisword 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

We may lose the name Reddit but as long as there is a free internet, the ideas we have all come to call home here will live on. We will find another board service, they will never recover.

[–]btcxr 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Voat.co a reddit like site founded on such principles.

[–]_horsey 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It became necessary to destroy reddit in order to save it.

[–]BetterJosh[S] 237ポイント238ポイント  (53子コメント)

This brought me to genuine tears.

I sincerely hope "Saint Aaron" lives on, in all of us.

[–]aidenr 76ポイント77ポイント  (23子コメント)

I couldn't think of a better way to beg you to stay. Better to be you, here, now than to wait to see a righteous world.

If you are resolute, I would accept the keys and the burden. But please stay. Write about censorship. Take on the giants.

[–]lamaksha77 34ポイント35ポイント  (22子コメント)

Write about censorship. Take on the giants.

It is not a matter of taking on the giants. To be frank, this is not a tide that can be turned.

The core userbase that Reddit caters to is shifting (or has mostly shifted) from the hacker-culture associated, tech-savvy group that used to dominate in the early days into the very mainstream userbase that comes here now to get its daily dose of news and entertainment that would have been provided by the TV and newspapers in earlier eras.

With that change in core users will be an inevitable change in the core values of the site. This is exactly what /u/betterjosh is writing about, and perfectly nails how I feel too. Similarly, to someone belonging to the latter group, us complaining about a few 'hate groups' being 'banned' would seem puzzling to them, or even distasteful.

The two groups cannot co-exist, and there is little point in fighting a losing battle. Clearly the admins are preparing for the mainstream to settle in, as it makes more financial sense. What next for us? Well that remains to be seen really...

[–]AldurinIronfist 13ポイント14ポイント  (2子コメント)

The core userbase that Reddit caters to is shifting (or has mostly shifted) from the hacker-culture associated, tech-savvy group that used to dominate in the early days into the very mainstream userbase that comes here now to get its daily dose of news and entertainment that would have been provided by the TV and newspapers in earlier eras.

You know what upsets me about this? You're right. This is what the management at the company that is Reddit use as justification for changing the site.

I'm a new user. I came here just over a year ago. You know why I came here? Because this place wasn't only catering to mainstream users. I did my research - I thought 4chan and Reddit were pretty much the same thing - and let me tell you, I made a conscious decision to start using this platform being well aware of the macabre, morbid, insane, psychopathic, and just plain weird subs it hosts.

I could have just as easily installed (I mostly only use the mobile app, that's how mainstream I am) the app for The Guardian, or The NY Times, a plethora of local Dutch news-apps, etc. In fact, I had many of them installed on my old phone, but when I got a new phone, I only needed Reddit. Why? Free user contribution. My local Dutch news platforms often can't even beat Reddit users to the scoop on LOCAL EVENTS. I would refresh some news apps and not see new content for an hour - this is not an issue on Reddit.

What is it about managers? What is it in the company executive/managing director/deskjockey/code-monkey/IT-supervisor's brains that makes the following sequence of events logical?

Man, this website we have here is doing pretty great. Oh look, Bill Murray just walked in the front door to talk to our users. "Hey, Bill! Can I get an autograph?!"

Man I can't believe I met Bill Murray today. What a great platform - all we have to do is maintain it and we're set for life. Yup. This is the life. kicks back chair and puts feet on desk

One year later.

Wow! The numbers for last year are in and we managed to get 2 million new subscribers! That's insane! We've become mainstream, who would have ever imagined?

Enter the braintwist:

Oh no! Now that all these "mainstream" users have come here of their own accord without us changing anything at all about our platform, how are we EVER going to make sure that we can attract a mainstream audience?! I KNOW! LET'S CHANGE EVERYTHING!

End scene.

Now, I just want to make sure at the end of this long rant that you do not mistake this post for a rethorical-question-cum-story; I am honestly asking you, begging you, to explain this lapse in the virtue of logic we all seem to hold so dear in life.

[–]hillsfar 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh no! Now that all these "mainstream" users have come here of their own accord without us changing anything at all about our platform, how are we EVER going to make sure that we can attract a mainstream audience?! I KNOW! LET'S CHANGE EVERYTHING!

Pow! Right there. They justified their already-intended change on a small fraction of the users who self-selected to take a survey, amongst other things.

I left Digg. I am optimistic that there's something after Reddit.

[–]gamblingman2 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Honestly I think it's being done to sanitize things to attract more mainstream advertising and more "sensitive" mainstream users who would be repulsed by some of the content reddit hosts.

[–]captainpixystick 27ポイント28ポイント  (6子コメント)

We leave to a reddit-like competitor who shares our original vision. Where the mainstream groups aren't coddled as they are here. You are correct, the two cultures can't coexist. One wants to allow speech, all speech, the other wants a safe space hug box.

[–]zephah 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

And what is that competitor? With the current state of Reddit, voat would be nothing like the original days of reddit. When I first started browsing reddit you couldn't even make comments.

[–]butter14 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

I foresee Voat having issues. It's constantly being hugged to death and there is only one person running it. They need access to better servers.

[–]zephah 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

And how do you get better servers? With money. How do you get the money? Donations or ad revenue. People flock do it, now we need more admins, more moderators, more celebrity attention, something to bring more users in.

[–]Riaayo 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

And it eventually becomes what Reddit is now. It's the same cycle. Things only stay homey when they aren't catering to thousands or millions of people. IE, when something becoems popular and mainstream it tends to go the same route every other mainstream thing has. It doesn't have to, but the way we glorify obscene income and lavish lifestyles, society tends to back up the degredation of a product in order for those selling it to make massive bank and then step off on their private island before the ship sinks on the horizon.

[–]mindlesskindness 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is that TrollxxRedit? I ask for Science.

[–]Westboro_Fag_Tits 21ポイント22ポイント  (8子コメント)

The two groups cannot co-exist, and there is little point in fighting a losing battle.

Except they can... nobody is forcing anyone to visit subs with content they dislike.

[–]lamaksha77 12ポイント13ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yes, this is what the concept of subreddits was supposed to serve, but nobody seems to be buying this argument. And trust me, I've had this many, many times today (both on this account, and then an alt when this was shadowbanned for while).

And frankly I'm tired man. What I realize at the end of a long day is that Reddit has changed, the userbase has changed, and the core values have changed. Looking back, it didn't happen overnight, but I only came to that realization today.

[–]Westboro_Fag_Tits 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

It was obvious back when /r/TheFappening was banned. They had absolutely no leg to stand on and they were blasted for it. Like always though, people forgot and moved on.

[–]gamblingman2 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The subs I'm on are pretty much the same and haven't been affected by all this drama. I believe due in part to the majority of those members being working people who have no time for all this nonsense. Eventually the kids will move to the next popular site and things will get back to normal, that is unless reddit goes down in flames first.

[–]hello_dali 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

The two groups cannot co-exist, and there is little point in fighting a losing battle.

Believing that you've already lost just ensures that you do.

"To be nobody-but-yourself—in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else—means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight: and never stop fighting."
from "E. E. Cummings, a Miscellany"

[–]TotesMessenger 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

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[–]_crackling 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

I gotta agree with a lot of the sentiment here. I've never heard of you or koans before. But one thing is very clear: You are a champion of the real free world. You should not leave in protest but stay for the wisdom you obviously have to spread.

[–]IFellIntoTheAbyss 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've never visited this subreddit, but your post and this post brought me to tears as well. Please stay, you have a new subscriber.

[–]murrypurryfurryfury -3ポイント-2ポイント  (17子コメント)

Take a step back for a moment. What is the underlying issue here?

Some subs got banned for violating TOS and others stand that are in similar bad taste. So logically there is either (a) an issue with the TOS. Or (B) an issue with enforcement.

Both cases call for better rules and better admins. But how do we, non investors, change this? And why are we rallied behind a hate sub when the same thing is happening to other subs?

[–]TiredPaedo 11ポイント12ポイント  (9子コメント)

Because if we don't rally behind the worst we're sending the message that there's a line beyond which propriety trumps freedom.

By intentionally defending the worst example we're saying that freedom always trumps propriety without exception.

By defending those like the Westboro Baptists and the KKK we show that freedom trumps all in a way that we wouldn't show if we only explicitly defended the unjustly disliked.

Thus the old maxim:

I despise what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

[–]lawandhodorsvu 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah im going to go ahead and say

Whoosh.

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[–]Abshole 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

What made Aaron so great?

[–]aidenr 23ポイント24ポイント  (4子コメント)

It's a koan, not a paean. Don't miss the forest by staring at a tree.

Out of respect for you, I'll answer more directly:

I do not know what about being Aaron made him great, or what about being great made him Aaron, but he did what he thought was right to preserve an archive of knowledge and then he was gone. That is enough.

[–]SFJulie1 283ポイント284ポイント  (92子コメント)

You are scratching something that is itching me.

I feel that it does not apply only to reddit, and that something is happening on the internet.

As if a non stochastic trend is developping towards some sort of rejection of non conventionnal topics, and a de facto acceptation of others.

Maybe we see the end of internet as a place for free speech. Maybe it has something to do with the convergence of internet with the "real world". Maybe I just went to the internet to escape the crowd, and now that the crowd is there I still not like its way of trying to cast people's speech in restricted views they are comfortable with.

Maybe I am just crazy and all is fine... but even if I am crazy I thank you for making me think about what I am doing of my time. I probably have nothing to do here anymore myself.

Thanks for making me think.

[–]TaiserLaser 305ポイント306ポイント  (35子コメント)

I got banned from 4chan from being racist

Do you know how fucking weird that is to type?

It wasn't even hostile, I just made a post on /v/ pretending to be a Jewish guy getting pissed off at DLC that costed $1.

Probably the only offensive sentence in the whole post was "Oy vey, it's like a second holocaust!"

And I got banned for it

On 4CHAN

[–]dusmeyedin 83ポイント84ポイント  (0子コメント)

Achievement unlocked: Goy veh!

[–]Torgard 40ポイント41ポイント  (12子コメント)

You will not post any of the following outside of /b/: Trolls, flames, racism, off-topic replies, uncalled for catchphrases, macro image replies, indecipherable text (example: "lol u tk him 2da bar|?"), anthropomorphic ("furry") or grotesque ("guro") images, post number GETs ("dubs"), or loli/shota pornography.

racism

While it's true that this rule wasn't really enforced a couple of years ago, racism has almost always just been responded to with >>>/b/

[–]Bradyhaha 27ポイント28ポイント  (1子コメント)

And pol and int...

[–]The_McTasty 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Can confirm, was called a dirty sand nigger for being 1/4 middle eastern. /new/ was even worse before they removed it, every two posts there was one about the jews.

[–]ShitArchonXPR 16ポイント17ポイント  (6子コメント)

At one point, Moot made a filter than changed instances of "peanut butter" to "nigger." SJWs don't do what they do out of principle; Zoe Quinn and Glorious Chairwomyn used to be known as misogynists.

[–]Torgard 7ポイント8ポイント  (5子コメント)

Hahaha, yeah, I remember wordfilters.

Femanon would turn into cumdumpster. Pretty funny stuff.

[–]mastersword130 11ポイント12ポイント  (4子コメント)

/v/ is kinda filled with SJW now. Most of them migrated to 8chan.

[–]JackStargazer 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

If that's bannable, how in the hell does /pol/ even still exist?

[–]Flaktrack 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a containment board. Keep all the tinfoil in one place.

[–]midoBB 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

/b/ and to a lesser degree /pol/ and /int/ are tolerant of that stuff. I don't know about /v/ but on /p/ or any other board that I browse being racist isn't really welcome because it's not the topic.

[–]WengFu 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

Just out of curiosity, why make a post like that in the first place? What made it something that you felt like it was worth investing your time in?

[–]TaiserLaser 20ポイント21ポイント  (4子コメント)

It took like 3 seconds and I thought it was humorous. I like making people laugh so it was worth the time

[–]Diamano 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

It was giggle worthy

[–]congratsyougotsbed 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Humor

You don't have to agree with it, but the joke is in the hyperbole. In that it would be absolutely absurd to compare a $1 DLC to a second holocaust. As in, no reasonable person would ever say that. The joke in itself is not hateful.

[–]I_worship_odin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's because the janitors are jews.

[–]rwbj 37ポイント38ポイント  (5子コメント)

The internet's a big place.

I personally became somewhat dependent on Reddit. In my days before Reddit I had a lengthy list of bookmarks of sites I'd check for interesting stories. At first Reddit was just one of those many bookmarks. But as Reddit and its amount of content grew, it started going further up that list until ultimately it became the list itself. There was more than enough content on Reddit alone and visiting one site was easier than visiting dozens.

I imagine my story is probably fairly typical. And cast in this light Reddit starting to go censor heavy at the same time that much of the mainstream media is also starting to hop on the "feels before reals" bandwagon, it can seem like the whole internet is just collapsing.

But then I started going back to some of those old sites. And oddly enough not a whole heck of a lot had changed. Later on I also found voat.co, which ended up replacing Reddit in its entirety for me (although it's currently being hugged to death by the huge influx of traffic from reddit - which is why I'm here now) and it's like all the value for freedom of expression and inquisitiveness returned. Reddit's kind of like a black hole. Once you step into it all you can see is it and everything it absorbs. But in this black hole you're still free to step right on out, and realize the rest of the world isn't experiencing our little singularity. And that is incredibly refreshing.

[–]Nikoli_Delphinki 15ポイント16ポイント  (3子コメント)

I would give you gold but I'm protesting it. Got a charity I could send $4 to?

[–]rwbj 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

I wish I knew more about charities than I do, but Child's Play seems like a stand up organization.

[–]atwork1 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have some left from when I bought it in a pack. I'll gild him for you.

[–]ShitArchonXPR 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

But in this black hole you're still free to step right on out, and realize the rest of the world isn't experiencing our little singularity. And that is incredibly refreshing.

This is a very good explanation of why browsing 8chan for the first time felt so free. Even if you compare it to the innocuous, low-censorship, nice and not sandy-vagina'd communities of Reddit--compare /furry/ to /r/furry.

[–]fourleggedhippo 31ポイント32ポイント  (10子コメント)

I'm beginning to think the internet now is on a fork road. In the future, there will be the mainstream web and the dark web. Soon ISPs will only allow content from the mainstream. Think Great Firewall of China encompassing the whole world...

[–]rchase 28ポイント29ポイント  (4子コメント)

Bah. Death of Internet Predicted - News at 11!

First of all remember that the world wide web isn't "the internet."

Regardless, people have been saying this about the world wide web since 1991, about usenet before that since 1985, and BBSs long before that.

[–]rwbj 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

Totally off topic, but you piqued my interest on the BBS thing. Can you elaborate? I don't ever recall any doom and gloom in the BBS scene. Obviously I wasn't everywhere but I was heavily involved locally and then nationally once telnet support became a thing. I recall nothing but optimism since it was pretty clear what it was all culminating in. I'm curious what you saw folks saying.

To some degree I miss the time as well since BBSs were completely decentralized. There wasn't really any such thing as "shutting them down." That'd require completely removing basic phone connections. I think the doom and gloom now a days is somewhat unjustified, but it's at least understandable.

[–]rchase 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

I guess it wasn't exactly the same as the doom and gloom one sees with "internet is dead..." but there was a period of time when BBS received an inordinate amount of Federal attention, and many many boards were shut down / confiscated. This was also just a whack-a-mole problem (for the Feds) and quickly corrected itself.

Probably even further off topic, but here's a really great read on the history of it all:

Bruce Sterling's The Hacker Crackdown

[–]rwbj 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Looks like a great read, thanks!

[–]rchase 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's fantastic if you have even a moderate interest in BBS culture. Sterling goes way in-depth and 1st hand interviews all of the major players. One of the finest pieces of pre-internet non-fiction journalism / history I've ever read. Well worth the time.

[–]Grig134 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

No one's right to speech was infringed upon. Reddit is a public forum but it is privately owned, meaning the owners can set the rules and enforce them (or not) at will. Free speech means you can say whatever you want, but it doesn't say that a private entity that provides free soapboxes has to give you one to spout your nonsense (or that it can't take away the soapbox if it thinks shit is getting out of hand).

[–]HelixHasRisen 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I dont think anyone is saying that they dont think that Reddit doesnt have the right to censor itself. It seems like they just dislike the way the site is being handled.

[–]superPwnzorMegaMan 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

What you're seeing isn't necessarily a trend that's the end of all free speech on the internet, its a cultural trend that happens mostly in america. I think most dutch people don't give shit if you offend someone or not. In fact the argument that you are being offended is quite ridiculous, if you're being offended, then its your problem. not mine.

Also note that these kind of trends have a wave like property, first free speech is important to everyone, then people will bitch about security, then they realize they need free speech again. This is just how cultures change over time.

[–]verrukt 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wat? Didn't the Dutch order the prosecution of Geert Wilders? I'm not the /r/atheism type by any means but pretending the Dutch are any different or that this is just an American problem is flat out ignorant.

[–]oreotiger -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

In fact the argument that you are being offended is quite ridiculous, if you're being offended, then its your problem. not mine.

I really don't get this.

If you type blatantly racist/whatever, hateful speech, you are doing it so that someone else will be offended. Their offense is all on you. It's just an argument made to defend people who want to say things to hurt other people.

[–]dblmjr_loser 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you for expressing what I'm feeling and observing. Several times today I've mentioned (in posts on random subs) what I call the new fisher price rubberized Internet. It truly produces a certain amount of anxiety. I'm almost 30 and I've had the Internet my entire life, it's been this way my entire life, it isn't theirs to change.

[–]HungryLikeTheWolf99 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

We're all thinking a lot because of this. I just want to add that in history, new frontiers have typically been "wild and wooly". New, provocative, and often countercultural ideas have flourished in frontiers where people are very free.

However, eventually two things happen: First, more people arrive, which exacerbates social problems which were heretofore only minor issues, or which residents of the frontier have learned to cope with.

Second, the growing number of newcomers, who lack the spirit of the frontier and of freedom, want to enforce the status quo of whatever crappy place they left. So, they work to import the "sensibilities" which pervaded their past context.

I see this in the movement to the New World and to American Westward Expansion. Perhaps you can think of other historical examples of this pattern, but I think we're seeing the same thing on the internet, amplified here on Reddit. (If these types of frontier-sociological stories interest you, I will recommend Time Enough for Love by Robert Heinlein.)

One last thought: If anyone thinks that Reddit's administration team is the genesis of these new censoring practices, they haven't had much experience with corporate defense counsel. Those are the cover your ass attorneys, and you can bet that either they faced litigation over /r/fatpplhate or they wrote to Ellen et al in bold, capital letters that they absolutely must censor Reddit our they'd lose the whole shootin' match. Lawyers like to scare the holders of the purse strings about unlikely problems that involve lawyering to solve.

[–]sacca7 37ポイント38ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thanks, BetterJosh. I agree fully with what you said. Btw, the people who didn't understand my purpose as a mod at /r/meditation are what drove me from that years ago. I got tired of people being offended with my suggestion that meditation on mary jane isn't going to give them the depth of insight that's needed to rise above limiting concepts of self.

I'm with you all the way. You've done a great job here and have done more for koans and to open people up to them than many, many in the world ever have. Thank you. More power to you.

[–]stayphrosty 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I haven't spent much time on /r/meditation, could you give me a tldr of what happened? it sounds like you felt persecuted because you disagree with using that substance while meditating. Is this true? I'm curious why you feel this way.

[–]GetOffMyLawn_ 51ポイント52ポイント  (14子コメント)

There's always voat.co. Almost a clone of reddit. Right now it's swamped with traffic.

[–]rchase 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

I only learned about voat about a month ago. It's nascent, but man they must be feeling something resembling a hyperspace jump over there in the last 24 hours or so.

[–]phamily_man 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's Digg all over again. To voat it is

[–]cardevitoraphicticia 11ポイント12ポイント  (7子コメント)

This comment has been overwritten by a script as I have abandoned my Reddit account and moved to voat.co.

If you would like to do the same, install TamperMonkey for Chrome, or GreaseMonkey for Firefox, and install this script. If you are using Internet Explorer, you should probably stay here on Reddit where it is safe.

Then simply click on your username at the top right of Reddit, click on comments, and hit the new OVERWRITE button at the top of the page. You may need to scroll down to multiple comment pages if you have commented a lot.

[–]kingarthurbkr 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is there an app of voat.co?

[–]mHtt 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ya he'd love voat

[–]hobbycollector 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have to guess they are over there furiously buying servers.

[–]ejr1216 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think you broke the site. See you guys over there.

[–]syringemedic 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

http://i.imgur.com/8apKzp7.jpg

This really says it all here.

Mod steps down, nobody cares.

[–]JoelKizz 9ポイント10ポイント  (14子コメント)

As a society we have agreed that the health consequences of smoking outweigh the issue of "smoker freedom". If I argue I have a "right to smoke" in your favorite restaurant, you would find that laughable. If I was to exhale a single puff, I'd be tossed out on my ear (rightfully so). No one is arguing for "smoker acceptance". I'm not claiming that "real men have tar filled lungs". Anyone who did would be labeled insane.

I like most of what you said but this point about changes we have made regarding smoking laws is irrelevant. We've made changes to prevent one person's rights (the right to smoke) from infringing on the rights of others (the right to not smoke). If I go into a restaurant and there is a fat person eating a 3000 calorie lunch a table over I doubt I'm going to have issues with second hand food flying into my mouth. We didn't ban smoking in public because of a lack of "smoker acceptance" we did it because it was infringing upon other people.

I guess I just do not see the connection between the first part of your paragraph and the last three sentences.

[–]has_a_bigger_dick 3ポイント4ポイント  (7子コメント)

Smoking is banned in most public parks, don't even try and tell me your going to get cancer from the molecule or two of smoke you may inhale outside.

[–]JoelKizz 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

Cancer isn't the issue, its more a quality of life and common courtesy issue. If fat people start rubbing their bodies all over me or shoving their food into my mouth then I'd be all for outlawing obesity in public, as it stands, however, I don't much care what anyone else does to their own body.

[–]Cauca 53ポイント54ポイント  (57子コメント)

I think you didn't really take into account the part where they said they were banning harassment actions, not ideas. As far as I can see from other comments, you are likely missing information on “the truth" behind the banning of FPH.

Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/39bpam/removing_harassing_subreddits/cs2a7qu?context=1

[–]Khaze 25ポイント26ポイント  (27子コメント)

Right. Op is so brazenly melodramatic it hurts me. That being said, I had never heard of koans and now I have, so there's a plus.

[–]TheCopyPasteLife 6ポイント7ポイント  (11子コメント)

Its not the fact that they ban FPH, but the fact that they banned FPH2...3...4

If they are really banning on harassment, why are they banning subs that have done nothing yet?

[–]MadAce 19ポイント20ポイント  (9子コメント)

Ban evasion.

[–]I_worship_odin 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

So you are banning an idea then. If you make another subreddit dedicated to fat people then it will be banned as well. They are banning ideas not harassment.

[–]PanzerVI 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

no you are not in this case. this is just ban evasion pure and simple. if you try to resist arrest after committing a crime, you can be arrested and charged for that as well as the original crime. it's the same thing here. assuming fph did something that is worthy of being banned, then they are being "arrested" (banned) for this. however, by trying to continue on as nothing happened, they are resisting this "arrest" which in and of itself is a crime and is worthy of arrest as well.

[–]NetTrap -2ポイント-1ポイント  (10子コメント)

If you think the reddit admins are not banning "ideas" then you are very naive. The past day of revelations has shown that there is indeed a hidden agenda that we are now discovering. Don't be so blind as to think this is just FPH backlash.

[–]StealthTomato 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

The past day of revelations has shown that there is indeed a hidden agenda that we are now discovering.

Can we please stop being so melodramatic? There is no cabal. There is almost never a cabal. You should have learned this from Wikipedia.

[–]dragon_nipples 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

FPH didn't harass anyone. They have provided zero evidence of what this harassing was.

why ban an entire sub when SRS, twox which has done far worse are allowed?

This is about the SJW narrative being enforced on reddit.

So stop saying they were harassing people, he already explained why they didn't.

[–]Karunamon 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

They, no, but other users kind of have. At this point it's not in question that certain people in FPH were actually engaging in harassment, but even then, that merits banning some users, not killing a community of 160k people.

[–]bastardblaster 14ポイント15ポイント  (13子コメント)

The path of dialogue could have reigned in any bad behavior done by /r/fatpeoplehate. They were brigaded by imgur, and responded in kind. There were no warnings. Just a ban of a 150,000 person sub, complete with a ban of all moderators. There was obviously no thought given to the repercussions of these actions. Escalation met with more escalation only results in war.

And war they got.

I am only a bystander collecting facts so please do no assume I favor either side. I watched this objectively from the start. I was a subscriber to fatpeoplehate as it was a place for some to vent. People saw it in varying degrees. Some really deep down hated fat people's lack of self control. People like me felt bad but ultimately were a little angry at the toll they take on society. But scattering 150,000 people and expecting it to just blow over is absurd.

Even fat people were defending FPH in the announcement thread. If that doesn't give you an idea who is in the wrong, then you must be blind.

People talk about free speech and it's implications. I know reddit is not part of the government and is not obligated to ensure free speech, but it was founded on that principle, and robbing people of a place to vent goes against that. People mention digg, and may be right. This might not be the definitive death of reddit, but it is not a step towards the future, that's for sure.

In the end, we'll see if the people buying so much gold outlast the people leaving, both users and advertisers. That will determine the financial outcome of reddit, which nobody can deny.

Fuck I need a beer.

[–]omgitsbigbear 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

Isn't it disingenuous to first claim to be an objective bystander and then admit to being a participant in one of the affected communities, even if your participation consisted solely of "I guess I kinda like watching these folks hate on fat people"?

Your points are fine and valid and you don't need to claim a false level of objectivity to feel them.

[–]danwin 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Your points are fine and valid and you don't need to claim a false level of objectivity to feel them.

Thanks for calling out an all-too-common rhetorical technique.

[–]omgitsbigbear 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks. I am sad that this drama has spilled over into /r/koans. I am even sadder that, with it here, we are engaging it with sophistry.

[–]sillymod 22ポイント23ポイント  (24子コメント)

Hi BetterJosh. I share your sentiment, and I think that you have written a very eloquent argument/description of the concerns many of us share.

I am also concerned that so many people on Reddit are taking the opposing opinion - that "freedom of speech" only applies to the government, and that speech is not protected on private forums, etc. While this is technically true, many people of the world - not just the US - have taken to the belief that freedom from censorship is a quality that should be applied by all authority as a symbol of the authority's strength against criticism.

So while they are technically correct that people do not have a fundamental freedom of speech on Reddit, the actions of selective censorship indicate that those in authority seek to control, rather than act benevolently.

[–]StealthTomato 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

For some reason, people seem to extend "freedom of speech" to absurd levels. Freedom of speech doesn't mean you can say anything you want. It means you can hold any opinion you want, and share any opinion you want. It ends when you leave the realm of opinions.

Slander is illegal. Inciting a panic or riot is illegal. Threatening bodily harm is illegal. Psychological abuse is illegal. What do these things have in common? They are speech, but they are not opinions.

You're allowed to have your opinions, which is why nobody has deleted this post or banned you for it. But a community that fosters harassment and abuse goes beyond the bounds of freedom of speech. You have freedom to hate, not to abuse.

[–]pneuma8828 3ポイント4ポイント  (7子コメント)

And your point? Are you really arguing that Conde Nast shouldn't be able to do whatever they want with the servers they pay for?

[–]sillymod 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not at all.

I am saying that people naturally distrust authority figures/groups that feel the need to control speech, as it suggests that they are neither benevolent nor based on reason.

[–]MrDannyOcean 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

They should be able to do whatever they want, obviously. The point is that we should be disappointed at the choice they made. Obviously.

[–]rchase -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I suspect chasing any form of logic is going to be fruitless around here for a solid week or two. You'd be better off tilting at windmills. Not only are the pitchforks too densely packed, but remember also that the majority of U.S. high schools and middle schools just let out for summer this week. The 12-17 demo has a lot of free time on their hands right now, so the shitstorm may well last awhile.

[–]Karunamon 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Conde doesn't own Reddit anymore - hasn't for years.

[–]sternje 21ポイント22ポイント  (19子コメント)

I think you just summed it all up for hundreds of thousands of users. Well said.

[–]Bradyhaha 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Did someone seriously just give him gold? triggered

You will be missed, man. So long and thanks for all the fish.

[–]PaintAnything 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

"This entire 'victim culture' is absolutely poisonous and it does nothing but further victimize those it intends to help."

THIS.

[–]Sputnik420 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well shit. I respect your choice but ask you please wait a while first?

ANyway, us rats just cling to the debris after the storm, trying not to drown.

[–]danimalod 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

this will be the last you hear from me

Proceeds to write an edit 3x as long as the original post.

[–]noumenonimouse 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you. There are few on reddit who have as little to be ashamed of. Your reasons are sound, I cant' argue. I find it interesting watching /r/zen slowly sink into the mud. Good luck. You will be missed, but then....

[–]TBBT-Joel 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Extremely dramatic reaction to a very sensible policy, brigading and bullying don't strengthen reddit as a platform and moderators were actively violating TOS and rules of the platform.

It's not selective enforcement there are tens of thousands of subs, some hateful but it probably takes active complaints and flagrant rule breaking to start a crack down.

I can't believe how people are somehow upset that hate groups are being banned.

[–]EpsilonAI -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

It is selective enforcement though, /r/ShitRedditSays, /r/SubredditDrama, and even /r/bestof to name a few are CONSTANTLY brigading, and SRS has in the past been known to bully, harass, and dox people. Obviously if the rules were broken they need to be enforced, but they just need to be enforced without apparent bias.

[–]thegreattonge 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Good read. Thanks for giving to the community and best of luck in your future endeavors

[–]cylonrobot 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

So much drama, so many entitled people.

[–]Benjaphar 18ポイント19ポイント  (56子コメント)

Reddit is filled- FILLED- with ridiculous, offense subreddits... a policy of selective censorship- where some offensive things are removed, and other offensive things... are allowed to fester.

The subreddits weren't banned for being offensive. The admins very clearly explained that those subs were banned because they participated in harassment and doxxing and the mods either failed to discourage it or actively promoted it.

[–]Dyr0nejk2 45ポイント46ポイント  (48子コメント)

There was no doxxing. The straw that broke the camels back was when FPH took imgur's staff photos (from imgur website) and put them on their sidebar. People will also add that they did it to the dog. In regards to the imgur dog the only response was sympathy for a neglected and over weight dog.

[–]ahmfaegovan 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Then why did neogafinaction get banned? They didn't take part in any witch hunting.

[–]jasonallen19 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

Then why are any new subs related to fat people being banned too?

It's censorship. Don't believe their reasons 'why'.

[–]link5057 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

Their reason is "ban evasion" lol

[–]Sasukefan99 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

By that logic, why does SRS still exist? They don't use np.reddit links, do not warn against brigading or doxxing, and countless times have failed to ban user who violate Reddit's rules.

[–]TotesMessenger 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)

[–]cancegraf -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

but but, muh SRS !!! muh r/cringe !!!! le brigaders !!!

[–]Tar_Alacrin 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is super powerful. Well spoken. Censorship is indeed a slippery slope, which when first embarked upon is the pleasant and easy solution. It is the result of those who make decisions, and indeed, decide their entire moral code based purely off of their emotions in the moment.

Its sad that this sub is going, from your comments and insights here, I would have enjoyed to stay and discuss with you and hear what you have to believe, for it is clear that you have been afforded some measure of wisdom, even if the core of our belief systems were opposed.

[–]Shaeos 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have no idea who you are but I respect you.

[–]ModernRonin 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I admire your principled stand, and your willingness to put your money where your mouth is. If more people were to follow your example, the world would be a better place.

Thanks for the time you've spent with us here, and all the koans. It's been quite enjoyable, and though I was late to the party, I learned a lot.

Fare thee well, and I hope you and find a better place sometime in the future. Keep getting better!

[–]thor_moleculez 2ポイント3ポイント  (8子コメント)

The problem here is that your "philisophical value" of free speech conflicts with another philosophical value, the right to not be unduly harmed. FPH and subs like it cause emotional distress, which is a kind of harm. In most other cases where free speech causes emotional distress, it can be justified in some way, usually by appealing to the value of free exchange of ideas. But the free exchange of ideas isn't an intrinsic good; it's only good insofar as it can enrich us or add value to our lives. But what actual enrichment, what value is present in 'exchanging' the sorts of ideas transmitted by FPH and subs like it? None that I can see, and it seems like you'd agree. So then it seems in the case of FPH, the philosophical value of free speech doesn't actually trump the right to be unduly harmed.

[–]noganetpasion 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

But people could choose not to sub to FPH. Sadly FPH couldn't choose to be banned or not.

About your question, FPH made me start losing weight and I'm now 10 kilos down.

[–]photographic_mammory 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think you should ever say free speech is trumped by people getting offended or hurt by it. That simply isn't true, or else free speech is meaningless.

It's simply that free speech only exists as far as the publisher on this private venue wants it to, and if they feel a subreddit or a user is acting in a way that offends them or harms them, they have the right to ban that user/subreddit.

Your approach of saying free speech can be trumped by hurt feelings is the actual end of free speech. Free speech exists to spite those who would be offended by what is said. Otherwise it is toothless.

[–]Trexrunner 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wrote an a very sarcastic response, and proceeded to delete it. In all seriousness, when you start catering to the feelings of the frailest or most sensitive (and I mean that in an absolutely non perjarative way) you risk creating an environment absolutely devoid of thought, culture, or ideas.

[–]HelixHasRisen 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Your comment made me feel bad. Please remove because your comment is literally causing me emotion harm.

[–]HappyOutHere 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This comment is disgusting to me. Fuck you.

[–]IamFinis 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

No. Wrong.

Free Speech absolutely trumps being offended.

If you were a Football fan of a certain club, and you went into a pub for a rival club, and demanded they stopped making fun of your club because you find it offensive, you'd be laughed out of the place. If you were to stand outside and demand their pub be demolished because you find it's existence to be offensive, you'd be met with baffled looks and questioned to your sanity.

Stephen Fry's thoughts on the matter.

[–]revanchisto 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well...bye.

[–]kleinergruenerkaktus 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses.

I really appreciated the content you brought to this sub, I've been a long-time subscriber and liked to read it then and again. Seeing you defend hate under the guise of health awareness is unfortunate. Good luck becoming a better Josh.

[–]DickWhiskey 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Stultus quoque, si tacuerit, sapiens reputabitur.

[–]Agodoga 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hey, you did a great job curating /r/koans, which I am very thankful for. All the best in the future!

[–]xpdx 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This needs to be on the front page.

[–]hobbycollector 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Damn it. I didn't even know /r/koans was a thing.

[–]SordidDreams 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Who has the authority to decide what content has merit and which content does not?

The people running the website on which the content is posted? Reddit isn't a public service, it's a privately owned and run website. They can institute and enforce any rules they want, inconsistent or not.

[–]Melkath -5ポイント-4ポイント  (32子コメント)

This entire "victim culture" is absolutely poisonous and it does nothing but further victimize those it intends to help.

FPH was banned because they posted the contact information for imgur employees to their sidebar and encouraged reprisals for Imgurs decision to remove FPH images from their front page in response to a wave of harassment Imgur employees experienced when an earlier post of their "about us" page was posted to FPH.

This is not about censorship. This is about a collection of immature and irresponsible people throwing a hissy fit because they broke the rules and they got the consequence.

If you are taking action against a lynch mob and perverting it into some soap box about censorship, then good riddence.

[–]BillDinghy 17ポイント18ポイント  (15子コメント)

It was a pic, no personal info

[–]bschott007 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

It was encouraging harrasment. Not to mention the pictures of dead people with the faces of the imgur staff (and 16 year old daughter of one of the staff members) were posted in FPH with very sickening comments. Someone had links to screenshots of those posts before the sub was banned.

There was a lot more going on that the mods of FPH didn't care about or actively were supporting.

[–]BillDinghy 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

The bottom line is that people can't come out and say "we don't like what they're saying so we're going to silence them" so they invent some higher reason to do so. You can look at anything and inject a potential for harassment. There was no harassment, end of story.

[–]ahmfaegovan 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

Then why did neogafinaction get banned? They didn't take part in any witch-hunting and broke no rules.

[–]ilazul 8ポイント9ポイント  (7子コメント)

Stuff that ShitRedditSays and AgaintMensRights have been doing for a long time, but since it aligns with the SJW attitude it's ok.

It's entirely about censorship. They've even banned subs remotely related to FPH that haven't done anything.

[–]jasonallen19 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

You give the excuse for banning it, not the reason why.

If you notice today, many new subs have popped up in place of FPH, by other redditors, and those are getting banned too.

[–]Inquisitor1 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Imgur posts it's employees contact information too. Lets ban imgur? And they didn't even post any contact information, just publicly available pictures, without even saying who it was(but since the pictures are public it wasn't hard to figure out).

[–]legalize_it_420 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Truly Reddit is a worse place now r/shitniggerssay is gone

[–]GibsonES330 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wish I could give you a million upvotes.

[–]murder1 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why didn't you leave after the fappening or when jailbait was closed or any other time reddit stifled "free speech"? You just hate fat people

[–]JamJarre -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Damn son, you're going to be massively embarrassed when you realise that the banned subs are those that have been actively harassing people (in the case of FPH, Imgur admins), and that they're not being banned because of "offence"

[–]Auburn530 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was going to comment on the OPs post, but he said he was gone for good, so I won't waste the virtual ink. 😀

[–]gladiatorcav -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hit it out of the park!

[–]iamthelight_ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

What a way to go out. Holy shit great rant.

[–]twistedcain 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I literally joined reddit 8 years ago when Digg was banning people who posted the HD-DVD code. Reddit didn't, so...

[–]Rupoe 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I love the phrase: "Be a better you"! I've been using that as my morning alarm message for the past several months. Since I've started using it I've lost 40+ lbs through exercise and diet, have tried to dress better, have begun practicing martial arts, played less video games (until Witcher 3), worked on my mental state of mind and generally tried to improve as much as possible.

Anyway... just thought it was interesting you were using a phrase I had been using too. Congrats on your weight loss and quitting smoking. Best of luck in future endevours.

[–]Biteitliketysen 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

My name is josh and i just went on a weight-loss journey myself. Fucking weird stuff.

[–]dragon_nipples 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

certain well known sub is brigading this post right now, hilarious.

Reddit is planning to ban more subs.

In response to an inquiry from BuzzFeed News about the negative response from users, a Reddit representative said, “We did this incrementally so we could manage the response with our limited resources.”

its the end folks

[–]mutant6653 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

but i just got here

[–]motelcheeseburger 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

こちらむけ

我も寂しき

秋の暮

.

Autumn eve - please

turn to me

I, too, am a stranger

    -Matsuo Basho (1644-1694) 

[–]madmaxsin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

LPT: Quit one at a time. Quitting both at the same time is setting yourself up for failure.