上位 200 件のコメント全て表示する 335

[–]aidenr 544ポイント545ポイント  (41子コメント)

Aaron Swartz met BetterJosh wandering along a path, angry and alone. BetterJosh asked Aaron, "How should we defend the truth?"

Aaron replied quickly, "Preserve it carefully and share it without bias."

"Even the painful truths?"

"Especially those," said Saint Aaron.

"But shall we stop if the world turns on us?" plead BetterJosh, pain in his heart reflecting in his eyes.

Before he could answer, Aaron was whisked away in cuffs and never seen again. BetterJosh, enlightened, began to record the story.

[–]-ARETE-------------- 80ポイント81ポイント  (5子コメント)

Aaron Swartz, co-founder of Reddit, expressing his concerns for private companies censoring people in the future:

http://mic.com/articles/38635/aaron-swartz-interview-video-months-before-his-suicide-he-warned-corporations-could-censor-the-internet

Mocking our Chairman or making fat posts hit the front page is fun while the lulz last, but we need to think of something more long lasting. And effective. If the Reddit admins are willing to fuck over its userbase to get their hands on that sweet, sweet advertising revenue, well here's what we can do. Let's go after the Reddit sponsors. Make them know of the unhappiness and anger here. Make sure it becomes common knowledge that to advertise on this site is to get your name tainted in a never-ending series of memes and abuse. If the admins thought that their draconian censorship would make this site more packageable to the corporate sponsors, let's make them think again.

https://imgur.com/4pLoUoU

[–]_TunnelSnakes_Rule 26ポイント27ポイント  (2子コメント)

We need to get people to stop buying reddit gold. That's a small step but money talks.

[–]Westboro_Fag_Tits 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

It really isn't a small step... it's rather large. On previous profiles, I probably purchased gold 50 times or so. I know I won't be buying anymore and neither will many other people moving forward. It's only like $4/unit, but if 100 frequent buyers decide to never buy it again, then that's $10000+ in lost revenue.

Going through posts over the last 24 hours, I've run into several comments that I would've guilded before just to show my strong agreement with what was said, but I will not financially support this site again. Between /r/TheFappening and FPH being banned, I really can't wait for a successor to take must of reddit's community away.

[–]EllenPaoIsaGiantCUNT 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is actually a pretty big step and can help point things in the right direction.

[–]Unknown_One -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Aaron Swartz had as much to do with the founding of reddit as Conde Nast did.

[–]BetterJosh[S] 154ポイント155ポイント  (26子コメント)

This brought me to genuine tears.

I sincerely hope "Saint Aaron" lives on, in all of us.

[–]aidenr 41ポイント42ポイント  (10子コメント)

I couldn't think of a better way to beg you to stay. Better to be you, here, now than to wait to see a righteous world.

If you are resolute, I would accept the keys and the burden. But please stay. Write about censorship. Take on the giants.

[–]lamaksha77 12ポイント13ポイント  (9子コメント)

Write about censorship. Take on the giants.

It is not a matter of taking on the giants. To be frank, this is not a tide that can be turned.

The core userbase that Reddit caters to is shifting (or has mostly shifted) from the hacker-culture associated, tech-savvy group that used to dominate in the early days into the very mainstream userbase that comes here now to get its daily dose of news and entertainment that would have been provided by the TV and newspapers in earlier eras.

With that change in core users will be an inevitable change in the core values of the site. This is exactly what /u/betterjosh is writing about, and perfectly nails how I feel too. Similarly, to someone belonging to the latter group, us complaining about a few 'hate groups' being 'banned' would seem puzzling to them, or even distasteful.

The two groups cannot co-exist, and there is little point in fighting a losing battle. Clearly the admins are preparing for the mainstream to settle in, as it makes more financial sense. What next for us? Well that remains to be seen really...

[–]captainpixystick 14ポイント15ポイント  (2子コメント)

We leave to a reddit-like competitor who shares our original vision. Where the mainstream groups aren't coddled as they are here. You are correct, the two cultures can't coexist. One wants to allow speech, all speech, the other wants a safe space hug box.

[–]mindlesskindness 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is that TrollxxRedit? I ask for Science.

[–]pikapikapower 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Tumblr does that already

[–]Westboro_Fag_Tits 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

The two groups cannot co-exist, and there is little point in fighting a losing battle.

Except they can... nobody is forcing anyone to visit subs with content they dislike.

[–]lamaksha77 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes, this is what the concept of subreddits was supposed to serve, but nobody seems to be buying this argument. And trust me, I've had this many, many times today (both on this account, and then an alt when this was shadowbanned for while).

And frankly I'm tired man. What I realize at the end of a long day is that Reddit has changed, the userbase has changed, and the core values have changed. Looking back, it didn't happen overnight, but I only came to that realization today.

[–]Westboro_Fag_Tits 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It was obvious back when /r/TheFappening was banned. They had absolutely no leg to stand on and they were blasted for it. Like always though, people forgot and moved on.

[–]AldurinIronfist 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

The core userbase that Reddit caters to is shifting (or has mostly shifted) from the hacker-culture associated, tech-savvy group that used to dominate in the early days into the very mainstream userbase that comes here now to get its daily dose of news and entertainment that would have been provided by the TV and newspapers in earlier eras.

You know what upsets me about this? You're right. This is what the management at the company that is Reddit use as justification for changing the site.

I'm a new user. I came here just over a year ago. You know why I came here? Because this place wasn't only catering to mainstream users. I did my research - I thought 4chan and Reddit were pretty much the same thing - and let me tell you, I made a conscious decision to start using this platform being well aware of the macabre, morbid, insane, psychopathic, and just plain weird subs it hosts.

I could have just as easily installed (I mostly only use the mobile app, that's how mainstream I am) the app for The Guardian, or The NY Times, a plethora of local Dutch news-apps, etc. In fact, I had many of them installed on my old phone, but when I got a new phone, I only needed Reddit. Why? Free user contribution. My local Dutch news platforms often can't even beat Reddit users to the scoop on LOCAL EVENTS. I would refresh some news apps and not see new content for an hour - this is not an issue on Reddit.

What is it about managers? What is it in the company executive/managing director/deskjockey/code-monkey/IT-supervisor's brains that makes the following sequence of events logical?

Man, this website we have here is doing pretty great. Oh look, Bill Murray just walked in the front door to talk to our users. "Hey, Bill! Can I get an autograph?!"

Man I can't believe I met Bill Murray today. What a great platform - all we have to do is maintain it and we're set for life. Yup. This is the life. kicks back chair and puts feet on desk

One year later.

Wow! The numbers for last year are in and we managed to get 2 million new subscribers! That's insane! We've become mainstream, who would have ever imagined?

Enter the braintwist:

Oh no! Now that all these "mainstream" users have come here of their own accord without us changing anything at all about our platform, how are we EVER going to make sure that we can attract a mainstream audience?! I KNOW! LET'S CHANGE EVERYTHING!

End scene.

Now, I just want to make sure at the end of this long rant that you do not mistake this post for a rethorical-question-cum-story; I am honestly asking you, begging you, to explain this lapse in the virtue of logic we all seem to hold so dear in life.

[–]aidenr 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You have many conclusions that I think we're hastily reached. I would not like to try to force your mind open but if you are willing to work together on the topic I am willing to represent a third path that does not compromise. I do not lament the decision to close their sub and I think I can convince you that it is not even similar to censorship.

If that energy would be wasted I will respect our differences instead and wish you farewell.

[–]_crackling 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

I gotta agree with a lot of the sentiment here. I've never heard of you or koans before. But one thing is very clear: You are a champion of the real free world. You should not leave in protest but stay for the wisdom you obviously have to spread.

[–]IFellIntoTheAbyss 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've never visited this subreddit, but your post and this post brought me to tears as well. Please stay, you have a new subscriber.

[–]Abshole 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

What made Aaron so great?

[–]aidenr 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a koan, not a paean. Don't miss the forest by staring at a tree.

Out of respect for you, I'll answer more directly:

I do not know what about being Aaron made him great, or what about being great made him Aaron, but he did what he thought was right to preserve an archive of knowledge and then he was gone. That is enough.

[–]TotesMessenger 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

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[–]SFJulie1 243ポイント244ポイント  (66子コメント)

You are scratching something that is itching me.

I feel that it does not apply only to reddit, and that something is happening on the internet.

As if a non stochastic trend is developping towards some sort of rejection of non conventionnal topics, and a de facto acceptation of others.

Maybe we see the end of internet as a place for free speech. Maybe it has something to do with the convergence of internet with the "real world". Maybe I just went to the internet to escape the crowd, and now that the crowd is there I still not like its way of trying to cast people's speech in restricted views they are comfortable with.

Maybe I am just crazy and all is fine... but even if I am crazy I thank you for making me think about what I am doing of my time. I probably have nothing to do here anymore myself.

Thanks for making me think.

[–]TaiserLaser 238ポイント239ポイント  (22子コメント)

I got banned from 4chan from being racist

Do you know how fucking weird that is to type?

It wasn't even hostile, I just made a post on /v/ pretending to be a Jewish guy getting pissed off at DLC that costed $1.

Probably the only offensive sentence in the whole post was "Oy vey, it's like a second holocaust!"

And I got banned for it

On 4CHAN

[–]dusmeyedin 65ポイント66ポイント  (0子コメント)

Achievement unlocked: Goy veh!

[–]Torgard 24ポイント25ポイント  (6子コメント)

You will not post any of the following outside of /b/: Trolls, flames, racism, off-topic replies, uncalled for catchphrases, macro image replies, indecipherable text (example: "lol u tk him 2da bar|?"), anthropomorphic ("furry") or grotesque ("guro") images, post number GETs ("dubs"), or loli/shota pornography.

racism

While it's true that this rule wasn't really enforced a couple of years ago, racism has almost always just been responded to with >>>/b/

[–]Bradyhaha 21ポイント22ポイント  (1子コメント)

And pol and int...

[–]The_McTasty 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Can confirm, was called a dirty sand nigger for being 1/4 middle eastern. /new/ was even worse before they removed it, every two posts there was one about the jews.

[–]ShitArchonXPR 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

At one point, Moot made a filter than changed instances of "peanut butter" to "nigger." SJWs don't do what they do out of principle; Zoe Quinn and Glorious Chairwomyn used to be known as misogynists.

[–]Torgard 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hahaha, yeah, I remember wordfilters.

Femanon would turn into cumdumpster. Pretty funny stuff.

[–]Inquisitor1 -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

There wasn't racism though, just a hilarious bad holocaust joke.

[–]cassidymoon 21ポイント22ポイント  (0子コメント)

It was both. I'm half jewish, and I support your right to say that sort of thing, but it was both. Also, fuck you, asshole.

[–]mastersword130 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

/v/ is kinda filled with SJW now. Most of them migrated to 8chan.

[–]JackStargazer 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

If that's bannable, how in the hell does /pol/ even still exist?

[–]Flaktrack 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a containment board. Keep all the tinfoil in one place.

[–]midoBB 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

/b/ and to a lesser degree /pol/ and /int/ are tolerant of that stuff. I don't know about /v/ but on /p/ or any other board that I browse being racist isn't really welcome because it's not the topic.

[–]WengFu 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

Just out of curiosity, why make a post like that in the first place? What made it something that you felt like it was worth investing your time in?

[–]TaiserLaser 15ポイント16ポイント  (3子コメント)

It took like 3 seconds and I thought it was humorous. I like making people laugh so it was worth the time

[–]Diamano 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

It was giggle worthy

[–]TaiserLaser 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

The actual post was probably a bit less funny and more over the top than you picture it

It was something along the lines of

">The final boss is released as a playable character in my favorite rpg

New storyline available and stackable skills

Check the price

$1

ONE DOLLAR

ONE

FUCKING

DOLLAR

HOLY YESHUA OF NAZARETH

JEHOVAH JIRE, JEHOVA NISSE

AYIN KAFIN YAAAAAAAN

AYIN KAFIN YAN

YESHUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

YESHUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

It's like a second holocaust!

I will NOT have ANYONE in my home board persuading people to vote with their wallets that that price is okay I WILL NOT HAVE IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT

"Sh'ma Yisrael - Hear Oh Israel! You are about to approach battle on your enemies. Let you hearts not whither and do not fear, tremble, or be broken before them. For Hashem who will go with you, fight with you, and save you" (Deuteronomy 20:3-4).

"

[–]rwbj 23ポイント24ポイント  (2子コメント)

The internet's a big place.

I personally became somewhat dependent on Reddit. In my days before Reddit I had a lengthy list of bookmarks of sites I'd check for interesting stories. At first Reddit was just one of those many bookmarks. But as Reddit and its amount of content grew, it started going further up that list until ultimately it became the list itself. There was more than enough content on Reddit alone and visiting one site was easier than visiting dozens.

I imagine my story is probably fairly typical. And cast in this light Reddit starting to go censor heavy at the same time that much of the mainstream media is also starting to hop on the "feels before reals" bandwagon, it can seem like the whole internet is just collapsing.

But then I started going back to some of those old sites. And oddly enough not a whole heck of a lot had changed. Later on I also found voat.co, which ended up replacing Reddit in its entirety for me (although it's currently being hugged to death by the huge influx of traffic from reddit - which is why I'm here now) and it's like all the value for freedom of expression and inquisitiveness returned. Reddit's kind of like a black hole. Once you step into it all you can see is it and everything it absorbs. But in this black hole you're still free to step right on out, and realize the rest of the world isn't experiencing our little singularity. And that is incredibly refreshing.

[–]Nikoli_Delphinki 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would give you gold but I'm protesting it. Got a charity I could send $4 to?

[–]ShitArchonXPR 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

But in this black hole you're still free to step right on out, and realize the rest of the world isn't experiencing our little singularity. And that is incredibly refreshing.

This is a very good explanation of why browsing 8chan for the first time felt so free. Even if you compare it to the innocuous, low-censorship, nice and not sandy-vagina'd communities of Reddit--compare /furry/ to /r/furry.

[–]fourleggedhippo 22ポイント23ポイント  (10子コメント)

I'm beginning to think the internet now is on a fork road. In the future, there will be the mainstream web and the dark web. Soon ISPs will only allow content from the mainstream. Think Great Firewall of China encompassing the whole world...

[–]rchase 21ポイント22ポイント  (4子コメント)

Bah. Death of Internet Predicted - News at 11!

First of all remember that the world wide web isn't "the internet."

Regardless, people have been saying this about the world wide web since 1991, about usenet before that since 1985, and BBSs long before that.

[–]rwbj 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Totally off topic, but you piqued my interest on the BBS thing. Can you elaborate? I don't ever recall any doom and gloom in the BBS scene. Obviously I wasn't everywhere but I was heavily involved locally and then nationally once telnet support became a thing. I recall nothing but optimism since it was pretty clear what it was all culminating in. I'm curious what you saw folks saying.

To some degree I miss the time as well since BBSs were completely decentralized. There wasn't really any such thing as "shutting them down." That'd require completely removing basic phone connections. I think the doom and gloom now a days is somewhat unjustified, but it's at least understandable.

[–]rchase 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

I guess it wasn't exactly the same as the doom and gloom one sees with "internet is dead..." but there was a period of time when BBS received an inordinate amount of Federal attention, and many many boards were shut down / confiscated. This was also just a whack-a-mole problem (for the Feds) and quickly corrected itself.

Probably even further off topic, but here's a really great read on the history of it all:

Bruce Sterling's The Hacker Crackdown

[–]rwbj 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Looks like a great read, thanks!

[–]rchase 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's fantastic if you have even a moderate interest in BBS culture. Sterling goes way in-depth and 1st hand interviews all of the major players. One of the finest pieces of pre-internet non-fiction journalism / history I've ever read. Well worth the time.

[–]superPwnzorMegaMan 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

What you're seeing isn't necessarily a trend that's the end of all free speech on the internet, its a cultural trend that happens mostly in america. I think most dutch people don't give shit if you offend someone or not. In fact the argument that you are being offended is quite ridiculous, if you're being offended, then its your problem. not mine.

Also note that these kind of trends have a wave like property, first free speech is important to everyone, then people will bitch about security, then they realize they need free speech again. This is just how cultures change over time.

[–]verrukt 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wat? Didn't the Dutch order the prosecution of Geert Wilders? I'm not the /r/atheism type by any means but pretending the Dutch are any different or that this is just an American problem is flat out ignorant.

[–]cobblemix -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hey you arent alone

[–]dblmjr_loser 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you for expressing what I'm feeling and observing. Several times today I've mentioned (in posts on random subs) what I call the new fisher price rubberized Internet. It truly produces a certain amount of anxiety. I'm almost 30 and I've had the Internet my entire life, it's been this way my entire life, it isn't theirs to change.

[–]sacca7 26ポイント27ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks, BetterJosh. I agree fully with what you said. Btw, the people who didn't understand my purpose as a mod at /r/meditation are what drove me from that years ago. I got tired of people being offended with my suggestion that meditation on mary jane isn't going to give them the depth of insight that's needed to rise above limiting concepts of self.

I'm with you all the way. You've done a great job here and have done more for koans and to open people up to them than many, many in the world ever have. Thank you. More power to you.

[–]GetOffMyLawn_ 32ポイント33ポイント  (5子コメント)

There's always voat.co. Almost a clone of reddit. Right now it's swamped with traffic.

[–]rchase 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I only learned about voat about a month ago. It's nascent, but man they must be feeling something resembling a hyperspace jump over there in the last 24 hours or so.

[–]mHtt 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ya he'd love voat

[–]cardevitoraphicticia 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I wrote a script to help people clear their comment history before they go. You can find it here: https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/10380-reddit-overwrite

[–]noganetpasion 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is amazing, I can't thank you enough!

[–]hobbycollector 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have to guess they are over there furiously buying servers.

[–]sternje 18ポイント19ポイント  (8子コメント)

I think you just summed it all up for hundreds of thousands of users. Well said.

[–]bastardblaster 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

The path of dialogue could have reigned in any bad behavior done by /r/fatpeoplehate. They were brigaded by imgur, and responded in kind. There were no warnings. Just a ban of a 150,000 person sub, complete with a ban of all moderators. There was obviously no thought given to the repercussions of these actions. Escalation met with more escalation only results in war.

And war they got.

I am only a bystander collecting facts so please do no assume I favor either side. I watched this objectively from the start. I was a subscriber to fatpeoplehate as it was a place for some to vent. People saw it in varying degrees. Some really deep down hated fat people's lack of self control. People like me felt bad but ultimately were a little angry at the toll they take on society. But scattering 150,000 people and expecting it to just blow over is absurd.

Even fat people were defending FPH in the announcement thread. If that doesn't give you an idea who is in the wrong, then you must be blind.

People talk about free speech and it's implications. I know reddit is not part of the government and is not obligated to ensure free speech, but it was founded on that principle, and robbing people of a place to vent goes against that. People mention digg, and may be right. This might not be the definitive death of reddit, but it is not a step towards the future, that's for sure.

In the end, we'll see if the people buying so much gold outlast the people leaving, both users and advertisers. That will determine the financial outcome of reddit, which nobody can deny.

Fuck I need a beer.

[–]omgitsbigbear 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Isn't it disingenuous to first claim to be an objective bystander and then admit to being a participant in one of the affected communities, even if your participation consisted solely of "I guess I kinda like watching these folks hate on fat people"?

Your points are fine and valid and you don't need to claim a false level of objectivity to feel them.

[–]Cauca 19ポイント20ポイント  (15子コメント)

I think you didn't really take into account the part where they said they were banning harassment actions, not ideas. As far as I can see from other comments, you are likely missing information on “the truth" behind the banning of FPH.

[–]Khaze 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

Right. Op is so brazenly melodramatic it hurts me. That being said, I had never heard of koans and now I have, so there's a plus.

[–]NetTrap 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you think the reddit admins are not banning "ideas" then you are very naive. The past day of revelations has shown that there is indeed a hidden agenda that we are now discovering. Don't be so blind as to think this is just FPH backlash.

[–]samcbar -1ポイント0ポイント  (8子コメント)

Reddit admins wanted to stop harassment of imgur employees, which I think was reasonable. They instead chose to ban an entire sub instead of taking other actions which could have ended the harassment of the imgur employees:

If I was an admin I would have for /r/fatpeoplehate:
1. locked /r/fatpeoplehate temporarily
2. removed the custom CSS sheet from the sub
3. removed the existing MODs
4. found new mods for /r/fatpeoplehate

Instead they chose to eliminate the community and post a rather poorly announcement (here) giving no information about the harassment of imgur employees leading many people (myself included) to think it was banned because some people dislike fat people (and thats now not ok on reddit) rather than harassment of imgur employees.

[–]thor_moleculez 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

Why in the blue fuck should they devote time and resources to rehabilitating ANY sub, let alone FPH? They set some extremely permissive rules then get out of your way, giving you access to one of the most widely used social networks in the world. If you abuse reddit's permissiveness by choosing to break those rules, that's on you - get deleted. No matter what you think of FPH, any reasonable person would think this is profoundly stupid.

[–]SoMuchPorn69 -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Oh, you mean those broadly-worded and extremely selectively-enforced rules?

[–]thor_moleculez 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's irrelevant; if they actually are selectively enforcing the rules that only means they should start enforcing them impartially, not that they should start tinkering with subs trying to rehab them. Think better please.

[–]ShtLordPrime 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

From OP:

FPH posted a public picture of the people being IMGUR in their sidebar. The image was public. No personal details were included in that picture. No "doxxing" took place as far as I can tell. Again, I never intended to get involved in this debate; I'm not a member of FPH, but as an occasional lurker, I know this to be factually untrue. And I really don't like being lied to.

No individual harassment or naming took place. Just reposting a publically available image, in retaliation for Imgur's censorship. Immature? Yes. Harassment? No.

[–]samcbar 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I am getting my information here, which may not be correct.

Quoted from my link:

The allegations are that users from /r/fatpeoplehate[9] were regularly going outside their subreddit and harassing people in other subreddits or even other internet communities (including allegedly poaching pics from /r/keto and harassing the redditor(s) involved[10] and harassment of specific employees of imgur.com[11] , as well as other similar transgressions.

[–]ShtLordPrime 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

The admins have not presented their evidence of this, and it is already known that the FPH mods not only blocked users they caught brigading/harassing on FPH, but they actively watched for their users on other subs to ban them proactively!

Individual users may misbehave but they can get banned/shadowbanned. There's no evidence that the mods were party to any of that, and lots of evidence to the contrary.

[–]omgitsbigbear 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

How can you possibly know for sure that no individual harassment took place? With the imgur example alone the mods of the sub put up a sign that said, "these people (who all have publicly available contact info) are all shitty!" in a place with over a 150,000 visitors. You can't imagine that a least 10 out of 150,000 might take it upon themselves to go a little further?

[–]PaintAnything 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

"This entire 'victim culture' is absolutely poisonous and it does nothing but further victimize those it intends to help."

THIS.

[–]Bradyhaha 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Did someone seriously just give him gold? triggered

You will be missed, man. So long and thanks for all the fish.

[–]Sputnik420 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well shit. I respect your choice but ask you please wait a while first?

ANyway, us rats just cling to the debris after the storm, trying not to drown.

[–]sillymod 10ポイント11ポイント  (12子コメント)

Hi BetterJosh. I share your sentiment, and I think that you have written a very eloquent argument/description of the concerns many of us share.

I am also concerned that so many people on Reddit are taking the opposing opinion - that "freedom of speech" only applies to the government, and that speech is not protected on private forums, etc. While this is technically true, many people of the world - not just the US - have taken to the belief that freedom from censorship is a quality that should be applied by all authority as a symbol of the authority's strength against criticism.

So while they are technically correct that people do not have a fundamental freedom of speech on Reddit, the actions of selective censorship indicate that those in authority seek to control, rather than act benevolently.

[–]pneuma8828 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

And your point? Are you really arguing that Conde Nast shouldn't be able to do whatever they want with the servers they pay for?

[–]sillymod 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not at all.

I am saying that people naturally distrust authority figures/groups that feel the need to control speech, as it suggests that they are neither benevolent nor based on reason.

[–]MrDannyOcean 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

They should be able to do whatever they want, obviously. The point is that we should be disappointed at the choice they made. Obviously.

[–]rchase 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I suspect chasing any form of logic is going to be fruitless around here for a solid week or two. You'd be better off tilting at windmills. Not only are the pitchforks too densely packed, but remember also that the majority of U.S. high schools and middle schools just let out for summer this week. The 12-17 demo has a lot of free time on their hands right now, so the shitstorm may well last awhile.

[–]NostalgiaSchmaltz -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

The subreddit bans had nothing to do with censoring free speech.

They were banned because of large amounts of harassment and brigading.

[–]sillymod -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

That might be true if all the other subs well known for that kind of activity were also banned. This happened because subs that they didn't like were able to be associated with activity they didn't like. Activity was not the sole factor.

[–]NostalgiaSchmaltz 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

all the other subs well known for that kind of activity were also banned.

And like clockwork, this is the counter-argument always immediately jumped to.

Mods are not robots. They don't constantly scour the site for subreddits and monitor every bit of activity on every subreddit. If you believe there is another subreddit that needs to be banned for harassment, report it with evidence.

This happened because subs that they didn't like were able to be associated with activity they didn't like.

If this was true, then subs like CoonTown would have been banned as well. Stop trying to push this argument unless you've got definitive proof.

[–]thor_moleculez 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

The problem here is that your "philisophical value" of free speech conflicts with another philosophical value, the right to not be unduly harmed. FPH and subs like it cause emotional distress, which is a kind of harm. In most other cases where free speech causes emotional distress, it can be justified in some way, usually by appealing to the value of free exchange of ideas. But the free exchange of ideas isn't an intrinsic good; it's only good insofar as it can enrich us or add value to our lives. But what actual enrichment, what value is present in 'exchanging' the sorts of ideas transmitted by FPH and subs like it? None that I can see, and it seems like you'd agree. So then it seems in the case of FPH, the philosophical value of free speech doesn't actually trump the right to be unduly harmed.

[–]Shaeos 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have no idea who you are but I respect you.

[–]ModernRonin 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I admire your principled stand, and your willingness to put your money where your mouth is. If more people were to follow your example, the world would be a better place.

Thanks for the time you've spent with us here, and all the koans. It's been quite enjoyable, and though I was late to the party, I learned a lot.

Fare thee well, and I hope you and find a better place sometime in the future. Keep getting better!

[–]noumenonimouse 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you. There are few on reddit who have as little to be ashamed of. Your reasons are sound, I cant' argue. I find it interesting watching /r/zen slowly sink into the mud. Good luck. You will be missed, but then....

[–]JoelKizz 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

As a society we have agreed that the health consequences of smoking outweigh the issue of "smoker freedom". If I argue I have a "right to smoke" in your favorite restaurant, you would find that laughable. If I was to exhale a single puff, I'd be tossed out on my ear (rightfully so). No one is arguing for "smoker acceptance". I'm not claiming that "real men have tar filled lungs". Anyone who did would be labeled insane.

I like most of what you said but this point about changes we have made regarding smoking laws is irrelevant. We've made changes to prevent one person's rights (the right to smoke) from infringing on the rights of others (the right to not smoke). If I go into a restaurant and there is a fat person eating a 3000 calorie lunch a table over I doubt I'm going to have issues with second hand food flying into my mouth. We didn't ban smoking in public because of a lack of "smoker acceptance" we did it because it was infringing upon other people.

I guess I just do not see the connection between the first part of your paragraph and the last three sentences.

[–]has_a_bigger_dick 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Smoking is banned in most public parks, don't even try and tell me your going to get cancer from the molecule or two of smoke you may inhale outside.

[–]movzx 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

Exhibit C

Exhibit D

Pretending that obese people don't impact others is disingenuous. They harm their children. They literally take over space other people are occupying. They drain taxes. They drain healthcare resources. The world wasn't built for 400lb people.

For me the biggest problem these days isn't that fat people exist. It's that HAES is a thing. It's that people are trying to say a 300lb person is not unhealthy, and even is better than being a measly 175lb male. It's people like Tess getting acceptance for being actively and provably unhealthy. Sorry, but if you get winded taking some stairs that isn't being healthy. If someone drinks gasoline we go "Hey, that's not healthy man!" but if someone eats three Big Macs, a large fry, a shake, and some chicken nuggets for a single meal... That's acceptable?

[–]kleinergruenerkaktus 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses.

I really appreciated the content you brought to this sub, I've been a long-time subscriber and liked to read it then and again. Seeing you defend hate under the guise of health awareness is unfortunate. Good luck becoming a better Josh.

[–]DickWhiskey 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Stultus quoque, si tacuerit, sapiens reputabitur.

[–]Tar_Alacrin 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is super powerful. Well spoken. Censorship is indeed a slippery slope, which when first embarked upon is the pleasant and easy solution. It is the result of those who make decisions, and indeed, decide their entire moral code based purely off of their emotions in the moment.

Its sad that this sub is going, from your comments and insights here, I would have enjoyed to stay and discuss with you and hear what you have to believe, for it is clear that you have been afforded some measure of wisdom, even if the core of our belief systems were opposed.

[–]Benjaphar 11ポイント12ポイント  (49子コメント)

Reddit is filled- FILLED- with ridiculous, offense subreddits... a policy of selective censorship- where some offensive things are removed, and other offensive things... are allowed to fester.

The subreddits weren't banned for being offensive. The admins very clearly explained that those subs were banned because they participated in harassment and doxxing and the mods either failed to discourage it or actively promoted it.

[–]Dyr0nejk2 33ポイント34ポイント  (44子コメント)

There was no doxxing. The straw that broke the camels back was when FPH took imgur's staff photos (from imgur website) and put them on their sidebar. People will also add that they did it to the dog. In regards to the imgur dog the only response was sympathy for a neglected and over weight dog.

[–]ahmfaegovan 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

Then why did neogafinaction get banned? They didn't take part in any witch hunting.

[–]jasonallen19 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

Then why are any new subs related to fat people being banned too?

It's censorship. Don't believe their reasons 'why'.

[–]link5057 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Their reason is "ban evasion" lol

[–]TotesMessenger 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)

[–]revanchisto 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well...bye.

[–]sir_mrej 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

"policy of selective censorship- where some offensive things are removed, and other offensive things are allowed to fester."

So if you can't censor ALL the bad things, you shouldn't censor ANY of them? That's a horrible argument. That's like saying oh if you can't catch ALL the bad guys in the world, you might as well not have a police force.

[–]ZachMich 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The entire sub and mods were banned, when obviously not all of them did something 'wrong' according to reddit rules and reasons they gave for banning such as their 'behaviour not ideas'. Using your analogy this is basically like throwing every male between 18-25 in jail because this group commits most crimes

[–]Agodoga 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hey, you did a great job curating /r/koans, which I am very thankful for. All the best in the future!

[–]GibsonES330 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wish I could give you a million upvotes.

[–]murrypurryfurryfury 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

All the hate subs were left alone until they violated the TOS. in effect this event is a drunk patron (FPH) verbally attacking the bartender (imigur) and getting walked out by the bouncers (admin). And now they are starting a fight in the parking lot.

The other subs in question that are in poor taste do not violate the reddit TOS or admins haven't noticed them yet. They were more then happy to let FPH alone until FPH threatened their relationship with their major content hoster.

The other subs, while in poor taste, either know where the line is or just haven't been caught yet.

[–]NateThomas1979 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Not sure where you're getting that since he specifically pointed out that they weren't violating the TOS but I'm not a lurker on FPH so I don't know if it's true or not.

[–]shesallover -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

He (a supporter of FPH) stated his belief as fact. That doesn't make it fact.

[–]NateThomas1979 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

True, I was just saying that you are stating that they violated the TOS, he's stating they didn't. I'm not sure who I believe as I haven't seen either, but seems to me that as far as the narrative goes, that I am leaning towards believing the FPH side of things as I've seen people posting pictures of the stuff in question where no information was actually posted, just public pictures.

Again, I don't follow it that closely as for me, Reddit has been going down this path for a while now, it just hit a big nerve recently. I've been slowly weaning myself away from Reddit.

[–]murrypurryfurryfury 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Posting pictures of imigur staff members and saying these are imigur staff members, let's ridicule them looks an awful lot like a personal attack and potentially if it had continued unchecked building into doxxing

[–]pokethedeadkid 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Everything before the Edit, Beautiful says Everything right about how I feel and what is I feel right and true about what is going on in Reddit AND on the Internet as a Whole Right now, IT's not JUST reddit, it's Any site that has potential to be monetized. The internet was made to be a tool for mankind to come together, If only by means of a last ditch effort, but now it's being strangled and taken away, sluiced into a tiny box, when it can be infinite and ever evolving.

[–]giraffe_taxi 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I just wanted to congratulate you on making it a month smoke-free, and share a tip that you might find helpful.

I had a pack-a-day habit for about 5 years, tried to quit (and failed) probably a few hundred times. But eventually I managed to, and it's been about 15 years since I've craved a cigarette.

Here's one easy thing that really seemed to help remap my brain. Whenever I noticed a craving for a cigarette, I'd just go through the motions of pretending to smoke an invisible cigarette --invisible lighter, pack, ashes, everything. It might feel silly, but just mime it.

And while you're miming it, think of the "smoke" (air) as if it is a new brand you're testing. Notice how the flavor compares to your previous brand. Notice how refreshing and relaxing it is to take a deep puff of this "smoke."

It really took the edge off the cravings. And I think it rewired my brain. Before I got to that point, I'd quit but would still want cigarettes. After a little while with my new "air" smokes, I found that I preferred air to cigarette smoke. The flavor and sensation of cigarettes never changed, but my perception of them did. No longer did I find that toasty flavor of an unfiltered lucky strike refreshing, tasty, or relaxing -- at least not compared to a big lungful of air.

Anyway, hth. Good luck, and don't quit quitting!

[–]HirudinaeVicis 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow I really liked what you had to say. I have never been here, nor did I even know about FPH, heck I don't even know what a Koan is. With all the turmoil going on reddit, I was hunting around collecting info and ended up here. I respect your philosophy and feel mostly as you do. Welp I'm going to go look up the definition of Koan. I'd come back for a look just based on what you had to say, sorry you are leaving.

[–]pr0llytr0lling 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's interesting that you say you're resigning as a mod, yet you're still listed as a mod.

[–]touchytouch00 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Such a loss is your leave. I believe that's the first time a read something written by you but I would love to hear more.

[–]icallshenannigans 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You shouldn't be ashamed, nor embarrassed for if you were led to folly then so were we all and there is nothing distancing us from one another.

No space in which shame nor embarrassment could articulate.

So don't be ashamed. Don't be embarrassed. Rather look back with fondness upon a simpler time.

[–]mcpheny 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

My new hero.

[–]epileptic_pelvis 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This entire "victim culture" is absolutely poisonous and it does nothing but further victimize those it intends to help.

This is true. Look at how frivolous lawsuits breed a culture of personal irresponsibility in America. It's become profitable to blame someone else for your own stupidity. For instance, does a microwave really need to come with a warning not to use it to dry your infant?

Companies cover their asses to protect the bottom line. As a result, we have stupid laws and safeguards which are inspired by edge cases yet apply to everyone, and this reinforces the culture. "If there's no warning posted that says I can't dry my baby in the microwave, it's someone else's fault if I do and something bad happens."

In the same way, it looks like reddit is trying to make it profitable to sanitize the community by drawing in advertising revenue to pander to a specific demographic. If this continues, instead of the peanut-free table that already existed in the lunchroom, NONE of us will get to bring peanuts to school, period.

[–]diefatfucks 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Great write up, OP. I salute you.

[–]dragoninjasasin 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't understand why people are throwing such a fit over a subreddit made for the sole reason of bullying fat people. Like are you all really so passionate about your hatred for fat people that you cannot use a site that doesn't condone your hatred?

[–]Devonmartino 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

sole reason of bullying fat people

No, it was a subreddit for circlejerking about hatred for the obesity epidemic. Doxxing or contacting anyone shown in any picture was a bannable offense, and removing any and all personal information (including names) was grounds for a ban as well.

[–]hobbycollector 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Damn it. I didn't even know /r/koans was a thing.

[–]WhiskerChamp 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

"We can choose to be the victims in our story but I choose to be the hero instead. All of my power in this life is contained within that simple choice"

I wanted to highlight this just in case others didn't read all the edits above. This is a statement worthy of reprinting a trillion times over on every surface of the planet.

[–]legalize_it_420 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Truly Reddit is a worse place now r/shitniggerssay is gone

[–]r_u_dinkleberg 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bravo BetterJosh! Well spoken/written, and with many of the same very thoughts stolen away from my own lips before I could utter them.

Also I just learned what Koans were the other week, from reading The Dude And The Zen Master. So, to that end, I'll be checking out some of your past contributions as I'm interested in this whole notion and, until recently, have let my brain rot for about a decade. I could use some neural food. (And less junk food, both physically and metaphorically.)

So from one self-hating lurking hambro to another, thanks for outing yourself and sharing your thoughts, Reddit needs some brutal honesty right now, not just non-confrontation. Thanks for delivering.

[–]dimmidice 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

your smoker analogy is severely flawed. there's only one reason smoking is no longer allowed in restaurants, cafes and various other places. second-hand smoke. there is no such thing as second hand fat.

[–]Theopholus 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I just found this sub from /r/bestof. I think I get what's going on here, and it definitely looks like you've put a lot of work into your subreddit. Instead of stopping, why not move to a real blog, or use something like tumblr to continue your work and study, and just link to it from this sub? Just a thought.

[–]DatClimate 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nice rant, but, you are a fucking idiot for one reason.

Freedom of speech is only protected against legal prosecution, corporations are free to regulate what you say on their free platform.

I understand why you are doing what it is you are doing and up until you said that Dr. Oz nonsense, I agreed.

Please stop citing freedom of speech unless your government is prosecuting you for it. For that is the only place it applies

[–]AxeManJack 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Amen my brother.

[–]veridikal -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks for your input over the years, I'd be happy to take on where you left off with the BCR. I'd also be happy to follow you to some other, less creepy site, preferably not a reddit clone, but I have no recommendations.

The inconsistency and blatant disregard for the rules of reddit is disturbing, but with a bit of luck will bite them in the ass and turn this site's defaults into the vacant husks they deserve to be. (Who am I kidding)

Whilst there's plenty of people who are making keen observations about what this all means, it's getting drowned out by the childish bullshit going on right now and I can't help but feel that everything that is happening is exactly what is wanted from those making the decisions. "Reddit Culture" is itself toxic and it's sad to see that this issue has driven people to action like no other. What reddit has always been (Digg the $econd) and what reddit has become (this shit) has been a non-issue to me, because it's sincere subreddits like this one and people like yourself that actually count in my book. Again, thanks.

[–]xpdx 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This needs to be on the front page.

[–]vernonholliday1 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Companies always lose the best people first. i have never hearf of op before now but you seem like a pretty good josh already. when you lose something or someone good, when an organisation is big, you dont feel it right away and it is not measurable but there is a long term cascade that happens, espcially when it is philisopihical. it may seem like no one even notices but there will be a butterfly effect.

[–]Throwaway1944719115 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, employers may sometimes be prosecuted for tolerating "hate speech" by their employees, if that speech contributes to a broader pattern of harassment resulting in a "hostile or offensive working environment" for other employees.

[–]JamJarre -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Damn son, you're going to be massively embarrassed when you realise that the banned subs are those that have been actively harassing people (in the case of FPH, Imgur admins), and that they're not being banned because of "offence"

[–]mooserepellant 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have never been to this sub. I don't even know who you are. I agree with every single thing you said. I, too, was a lurker motivated by the self loathing of FPH. I'm sad to see reddit go in this direction. It's sad that subs like this will lose mods like you. You sound like a great person on a path to being an EvenBetterJosh, so good for you. Hopefully reddit can turn this thing around.

[–]TBBT-Joel 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Extremely dramatic reaction to a very sensible policy, brigading and bullying don't strengthen reddit as a platform and moderators were actively violating TOS and rules of the platform.

It's not selective enforcement there are tens of thousands of subs, some hateful but it probably takes active complaints and flagrant rule breaking to start a crack down.

I can't believe how people are somehow upset that hate groups are being banned.

[–]yourearesmart 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

i like how you use old conservative wisdom when it comes to free speech, but totally ignore it when it's in the context of a private company policing its property and communities in the way it sees fit

anyway have fun not modding your dumb forum anymore. ggpo.

[–]Sliepner 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Narcissists are NOT good people to put in charge of anything. Especially self-styled SJW's.

"Ooh, something disappointing happened to me, it must be a function of a monolithic societal injustice. Not a function of my own shitty choices and questionable ethics."

Such people are stupid.

[–]grabpants -5ポイント-4ポイント  (3子コメント)

personally offended

Who the actual fuck cares, if you don't like that subreddit then don't fucking go there, problem fucking solved.

[–]Hoser117 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Did you just not read the post? The point was, while they are personally offended, they get by through just ignoring it.

[–]Fat_People_Hydra -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're a Saint on Earth, God bless.

Edit: Why am I being downvoted? I was being supportive! Now I feel like I'm being harassed.

[–]War_and_Oates -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well. Bye!

[–]crhylove2 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

voat.co

[–]1plusperspective -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you find a new home, please let us know.