全 76 件のコメント

[–]theone899 182ポイント183ポイント  (17子コメント)

Just a reminder that /r/Games was never necessarily Anti-Gamer Gate. I had posted the report on the German study disproving the ''games cause sexism'' argument and it got heavily upvoted to the front page on both /r/Games and /r/Gaming.

It's the mods who are anti-Gamer Gate.

[–]TheDdevil 76ポイント77ポイント  (8子コメント)

If you browse the comments on r/games, you frequently get a very pro-gamergate feel, if not directly. There's so many posts complaining about how you couldn't talk about YOUKNOWWHATgate, etc.

Hell the most recent big upvoted post that was progamergate was that letter about diversity and the witcher 3.

[–]BeardRex 45ポイント46ポイント  (5子コメント)

If you browse the comments on r/games[1] , you frequently get a very pro-gamergate feel, if not directly

Yeah and then there's one or two anti's that reply to every slightly pro-ethics or anti-offendotron post with the typical lies and fallacies we see.

[–]cvillano 22ポイント23ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yes this happened with TBs first Hatred review, there was one anti who made it his mission in life to reply to every single comment that had a pro-GG slant. He was working overtime trying to spin the story that it was the 3edgy5me gamer stereotype 'COD bro' crowd who got duped by Hatred and not the moral outrage puritanical SJWs. Most people weren't buying it but the dude was like a professional anti who's literal job was to reapond to comments in r/games for 8 hours straight

[–]Cu_Gorm 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've actually acted like that on occasion. It can be hard to stop replying. Ultimately though it's a terrible idea because you end up just coming across as a tryhard and people ignore you.

[–]YoumanBeanie 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Could be it is his job. Create context.

/patriots

[–]hostile345 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

[–]LifeThirdTier 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Mind blowing that this was made in 2001, before social media (or the NSA surveillance state) was even a thing.

[–]yutt0 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you browse the comments on r/games[1] , you frequently get a very pro-gamergate feel, if not directly. There's so many posts complaining about how you couldn't talk about YOUKNOWWHATgate, etc.

Banning comments mentioning GamerGate is one of the most shortsighted, petty, idiotic, and totalitarian acts Games mods have done. It is very hard to have a discussion there anymore, because you have to constantly talk around issues the mods could completely delete your post or permanently ban your for at their whim.

I actually agree Games is not the place to post politicized articles. The mods have a goal of what the sub's submission content is going to be, and they want to keep that directed. I don't have a problem with that at all, as some level of content curation is what gives subs their identity.

The problem is when moderation no longer gives the community room to breathe. Games is far far beyond that, where gamers can't talk about gaming.

Tagging /u/selib in this discussion because it is worth someone who might still care seeing.

[–]frankenmine/r/WerthamInAction - #ComicGate [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The entire world is pro-GamerGate-activist or at least sympathetic to the cause.

It's just a handful of SJW cucks and cunts in influential positions who censor that fact out of public view as much as they can.

[–]koeleskab 38ポイント39ポイント  (1子コメント)

/r/Games is much like China in that everyone knows what happened on the square, but no-one wants to speak up because Quinn and her thugs would send a doxx-squad to fuck the misogyny out of any dissenters.

[–]mjc354 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Nowadays, unfortunately, I find most young Chinese (i.e. visiting scholars/researchers/students) actually don't know about what happened in the square. Hell, one student that worked with me didn't know a thing about Tiananmen Square. They just looked at me with a blank stare like "My country? My government? Do that?"

The mindkill is so strong over there, it's where we'll be in 10 years.

[–]Dank_Sparknugz 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

The subreddit is mostly just gamers. The mods, however, are very anti.

[–]Firecracker048 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's too bad that mods tend to reflect the sub as a whole because of the power they wield

[–]Gnokey 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's not what reflect means. Reflection comes afterwards. They'll only reflect the sub as a whole after they've directed it to become a thing like them.

[–]Homer00025 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

that's true. Also, I don't even care much if they are for it. I can understand if they don't want anything to do with the shitshow.

On account of GammerGate being made out of gamers, of course there is a huge overlap regarding views and opinions, so good arguments or views will be shared between the subs.

The mods only really become a dissapointment if/when they limit and censor discussion the community is interested in and upvotes, and even some of the mods disagree about those decisions.

[–]kiwisdontbounce 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I still don't know what gamer gate is. Why should I care and why is everyone up in a roar about it?

[–]LittleRecordingsthinks he's a genius and a god 29ポイント30ポイント  (2子コメント)

Have we been blamed for this yet? Just curious.

[–]jeb0r 26ポイント27ポイント  (1子コメント)

as much as I would like to get credit.. they did their shitty reporting themselves and that alone is enough to not garner an invite

[–]Homer00025 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know about the specifics, but it seems last time they intentionally went with fluff questions rather than more hard hitting ones the community was interested in. Was there some hypercritical reporting, or do you think it was more because the users just reacted negatively?

I think it might have more to do with the perception of the cynical side of amateurish and now professional enthusiast media (meant in a descriptive, not derogatory way) in general. When they see certain outlets carry a mainly negative, sarcastic outlook and publishers feel they can't trust the media partner they might wish to avoid them and focus on people they can present to people and entities with a large following on a more controlled environment.

When a site shits on everything that's not Sony or a writer singles out a game to complain about sexism and lack of representation rather than engage with the particulars of the game companies can't expect to get the hype train rolling.

On the other hand, when you focus on presenting the game to an interested journalist or popular vlogger like boogie2988 or AngryJoe, you can expect them to give the game a fair shake.

Then the companies has the material they created and the mediatypes they trust to create the first impressions and the narrative around which the game is discussed. Depending on the quality of the game the impression might be good or bad, but there is still interest in the actual game rather than the periphery around it.

[–]stljustice 49ポイント50ポイント  (16子コメント)

This is great news! AAA publishers are finally realizing that SJW attack dogs do little to promote their games (duh). If only Microsoft would kick Polygon to the curb, then we can finally take back gaming from the cabal of the insane.

[–]SkyriderRJM 18ポイント19ポイント  (4子コメント)

Just wait for the big "diversity in Halo" editorial they have planned for the next Halo game release.

Wait, what's that? We don't know enough about the next Halo release for them to be writing an editorial on it already? Yeah, they don't care.

[–]Hirmetrium 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

There is diversity at least. It's nice to see Linda and Kelly, two of the most awesome characters, make it into the game to support John.

[–]jotchLikes cis turtles 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Locke is black, but his HALO suit shield is not your shield!

[–]Loop_Within_A_Loop 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

diversity in Halo?

"See this character shows Spartan This is Steve, he's black/asian/hispanic."

[–]IMAROBOTLOL 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

AH! BUT XES NOT TRANS! HOW DARE YOU CONTRIBUTE TO TRANS ERASURE!!!

[–]Hirmetrium 1ポイント2ポイント  (10子コメント)

Dude, this is terrible news.

To me, Gamergate is about transparency and inclusion. I was actually sad to see Kotaku blocked from Ubisoft's conference - not because I like them, but because it's another blow to an already weakened game's media. It's how the publishers control the narrative and cause this whole ethical dilema in the first place.

If something as big as /r/games cannot get into E3, how are we supposed to improve ethics? how are youtubers meant to work independently without being under Ubisoft's or the ESA's thumb?

I feel every day that goes by we lose more of ourselves. We hate on everyone and everything that the SJW's have associated with.

The day that I supported Ubisoft for their shitty practices because they blocked a media outlet is massively unethical was a bad day. I realised this is turning into a war that nobody will win.

[–]Gazareth 8ポイント9ポイント  (6子コメント)

I would follow with the same sentiment but all the comments on the r/games link seem to be suggesting that the reporting was unliked anyway.

[–]Hirmetrium -5ポイント-4ポイント  (5子コメント)

It's irrelevant. A free and ethical press that pay's its own way, even if it is run by SJW's, should remain free. Else we become the very thing we set out to oppose. That's why it's... freedom of speech.

If it's universally disliked or unpopular it will be unable to continue, natural selection etc, but this is still discrimination of a website(s) which could very quickly get out of control. It's just another reason the game's press is the way it is (all "buddy-buddy" and interconnected)

[–]YurilicaPurple, White, and Green 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

And here you find yourself with a paradox:

What Kotaku is and can do:

  • Free to write whatever the fuck they want
  • Not ethical

Think about that for a minute.

[–]Hirmetrium -4ポイント-3ポイント  (3子コメント)

So you are going to champion silencing Kotaku the same way Gamergate has been silenced? That would make us no better than them, and won't improve matters. If you believe that's the way to go then I want no part.

[–]YurilicaPurple, White, and Green 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

You need to get yourself off that high horse and reread what i just wrote. No one is "silencing" them - they're still free to write whatever the hell they want.

BUT

A journalist's job is to report on stories ethically.

Kotaku failed in the ethics department, hard, they're still failing(look at Grayson getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar again). Consumers do not trust them and now not even developers trust them.

The key point in journalism is your reader base trusting you. That is the whole goddamn point of an ethics policy, the reason for avoiding conflicts of interest, the reason for not making it seem like you're reporting on something you benefit from.

If there's no trust, then you're not a journalist - you're just a bullshit writer.

So go sell that high-horse bullshit somewhere else. I want journalists i can trust, that can do their jobs as they're supposed to. All the rest of the unethical parasites can go plough themselves.

EDIT:

Here, i'll give you an example. You know Liana K, right? And how she's in various controversial GG-related discussions frequently. When there was a real shitstorm going on between her and FemFreq, people asked her why she wasn't reporting about the slander coming towards her from FemFreq supporters. Know what she said? "I can't report on a story that i'm part of."

Know why she said it? Because she's a trained, professional journalist that knows her shit. It's the very reason why people respect her, even though they disagree on some of her opinions.

[–]rgamesgotmebanned 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, gut I van totally understand devs not inviting them to E3 if they feel they will be slandered and lied about.

Edit: I also feel using melodramatic language like "silencing" is misused here. They can still say everything about anyone. It's not even pressure to self-censor. The devs simply don't pay them to slander them.

[–]gargantualis 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ahh so the concern is that the closed circut in e3 washes out the current unpopulars that GG exposed, blocks the known bad publications as a peace offering and curates a new breed of gamer shills, just like how MS did with free xbox 360s?

Ah fuck I said shill. The word just rolls off the tongue so easily.

[–]MazInger-Z 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's whether or not that outlet has the power to make it worth courting with them, not to block information.

I'm not going to invite an outlet that has:

  • a bad rep with a substantial portion of my customer base... I don't want to be associated with that brand.
  • is going to make mountains out of mole hills over shit that just riles up my customer base

You're removing context. The context being that Kotaku has been nothing but shitty. To readers. To the subjects it reports on. Not an ounce of ethical, metaphorical ink has been used.

It's one thing to snub Kotaku because it's trying to report the facts about your game. It's another thing to snub Kotaku because it's going to scream about esoteric shit like 'gender diversity' in your game over the stuff that actually will bring in the customers like 'is it fun?'

[–]TheXenophobe [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I stand firmly on this side of the argument.

This is the first step on the path of total media control by corporations. The first look at the dystopia we see in far future scifi. Megacorps owning everything. Controlling the spin, forcing good coverage or exclusion.

This is now about more than ethics in journalism. We need to stand together in defense of the press, or we will win the battle, but lose the war against the lack of ethics.

Yes, these two places being excluded now are not the best.

But I must remind you that we aren't fighting an enemy. We are defending an ideal. Free and trustworthy reporting. So, in order to defend that we have to, at least for the moment, defend the scum as well.

A vision of the future:

First they silenced the Clickbait, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Clickbait author.

Then they silenced the Colluders, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Colluder.

Then they silenced the Slanted Journalists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Slanted Journalist.

Then they silenced me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

[–]A_User 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

First ubisoft and kotaku, now this.

Something is going on in the boardrooms.

[–]altxatu 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, they realized that the SJW/indie-dev clique don't buy games or drive the industry. They've realized they're just a very, very vocal minority. Furthermore they've realized that they are unable to make any game that will satisfy them. They've realized it's a fools game to try. Since they depend on the publishers to give them access, they've realized they can side-step the whole thing by simply ignoring them.

[–]The-red-Dane 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

We're making noise, and the noise IS heard, even in boardrooms.

[–]Meafy 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

Bets on the 3rd reason was due to something happening last year? around August time ?

[–]_danjomite_ 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

Oh you mean this thread? It doesn't look like anyone said anything bad in it.

[–]HatredsBlazingGun 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh man that thread was pretty fun in the end. Everybody was just shitposting anything and everything that would typically get you banned throughout most of Reddit because it was just getting deleted a few seconds or minutes later anyway.

[–]minecraftimous 17ポイント18ポイント  (3子コメント)

This is filled with salt :)

$") I believe we can now start making moves to replace /r/games with a proper and ethical journalistic site.

[–]jeb0r 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

jesus those users are hitting them with the hard questions they were too cowardly to ask their interviewees

[–]EmoryM 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't know if /r/neogaming is going to happen, I don't think sharing a prefix with /r/NeoFAG helps

[–]koeleskab 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's funny, because parts of Neogaf are starting to actively quit their bullshit. They realised that Japanese relationship games are incompatible with bigotry.

[–]IMULTRAHARDCORE 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Huh, what comes around goes around I guess. Maybe /r/games and NeoGAF can console themselves while they watch livestreams together this year.

[–]motherbrain111 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well maybe /r/games mods should start acting like adults.1) Free Speech. no? Well stay home at e3 you smug motherfuckers.

[–]NotJIm99 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

The ESA has made it very clear that they do not see Reddit as a legitimate news source

The ESA's not wrong here. Reddit's primary purpose is news aggregation, not original reporting. Any stories that are broken here first are the exception, not the rule.

[–]AntonioOfVeniceKarma King of late April 2015 16ポイント17ポイント  (16子コメント)

/r/games is not that bad, really. They allow for criticisms of Anita Sarkeesian to be posted, whereas that is immediately removed on other subs for not being directly gaming-related. They don't censor anti-SJ opinions either.

[–]theone899 23ポイント24ポイント  (8子コメント)

I agree.

It's the mods that are bad, not the user.

The user-base at both /r/Gaming and /r/Games were mocking the ''video games cause sexism'' narrative when I posted there, and casually mocked SJW's.

[–]AntonioOfVeniceKarma King of late April 2015 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

It's the mods that are bad, not the user.

I'm not even sure if that's still true. In what little experience I've had with /r/games, the mods have been pretty good. Maybe things have changed since August.

[–]GGRain 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

r/Gaming is worse than r/Games, both are anti (mod-wise) but gaming is still worse

[–]sc2gaius 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

Forestl retired at least, which could have had a positive effect.

[–]sccdemir [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I know him personally. (not irl). He single-handedly spearheaded the discussion threads in that sub. Whether you agree with him or not he did tons of work.

[–]sc2gaius [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I personally think preappointed discussion threads lead by a mod are kind of creepy. He also "spearheaded" the censorship of anything GG related on that sub, so I'm not that broken up that he's gone.

[–]sccdemir [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

r/games is a huge sub. Like I said, they had other concerns. There was nothing but laid back discussion about the whole thing in the irc channel for months after. I bet he also knew other platforms would pop up for discourse and it did. Anyway, it makes me salty when people pull out the "CENSORSHURP" card so quickly, especially when I know for a fact that was not their intent. Regardless whether that was the right decision or not.

[–]HarithBK 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

seems that way looking over somthings like mods are no longer the once posting 95% of the content but there seems to be one person posting the majority of the new without commenting which i really don't like ether and somthing i would suggest there mod team have a look over. just linking news articals without hardly commenting is not beaing part of the subreddit.

it could be former mods or other people using the account to hide who is actually posting which would not be cool.

[–]Homer00025 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

They have a bit and we also shouldn't conflate all the mods as one entity. When that one response to the alleged sexism in Witcher 3 was removed from r/Games one mod came here to explain they voted on the decision and even said he was against removing it (The decision to remove it was also semi-understandable, although I disagreed with it).

[–]stljustice 19ポイント20ポイント  (6子コメント)

Yeah if it wasnt for r/games mass censorship, I would have never figured out what gamergate was. Thanks r/games!

[–]BoneChillington 15ポイント16ポイント  (4子コメント)

If you're referring to the TB graveyard thread that was in r/gaming.

[–]idelsr 10ポイント11ポイント  (3子コメント)

There were two.

gaming had a 50k+ comment thread nuked from orbit, which was the TB thread. I pulled a KoP on this one, sorry. gaming had the 25k comment graveyard.

games had a 25k one that got shut down. I remember that games had a mass deletion at one point, but I'm still looking for it, will keep you posted. From what I can surmise, the fallout from the 25k comment graveyard pushed people to /r/games, where posts and comments were being removed over the course of the 16th of Aug to the 22nd. The best I can currently find over that period was XavierMendel's modpost on the 19th while he was still moderating, which alludes to post deletions.

[–]BoneChillington 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

You have a link to the games one? I must have missed it.

[–]sccdemir [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

There were doxxing concerns and personal information of users getting out there and were obligated by rules to enforce them.

ZQ's affairs were also impossible to prove even though if they had been it would be related to video gaming and it brought attention to this whole thing there still wasn't any convincing evidence. And they were also willing to let the floods gate open if any came out.

[–]050607 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's starting to look like game publishers/developers are secretly blacklisting SJW sites or even subreddits (thanks to SJW mods) without openly supporting GamerGate.

They don't want to support GG but they are watching it and taking action now. Blackisting sites like Kotaku or forums like GAF.

[–]ApplicableSongLyricWe provide... leverage. [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

They don't want to support GG but they are watching it and taking action now.

History will vindicate the GamerGate stance.

[–]izlakid 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

/r/Games audience is fine, allot are even for gamergate. its the mods that are the issue. mods leaks, deleting threads, etc.

[–]Hulkkis 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank god, some people here think Reddit is way more important then it actually is.

[–]IHeartSoup 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Poor baby can't get a press pass. aww.

[–]FancyRobot 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would love to make games journalism my job

Hey look, it's why GamerGate is banned from /r/Games! This kind of delusional attitude is common on neogaf as well. So anti GG is mostly, if not entirely, games journalists, fake wanna be game journalists and feminists who care very little about video games other than "ma agenda".

[–]gnarwhaler 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

So was kotaku not invited to the entirety of e3, or just ubisoft's show?

[–]razorbeamzRuns /r/loltaku 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just Ubisoft's show.

[–]kfms6741VIDYA AKBAR 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Kotaku is still going to E3, they're just not going to be at Ubisoft's event on Monday.

[–]Gnokey 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you don't even have a publication, how can you be surprised that you're not seen as a news organization?