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[–]amavritansky [スコア非表示]  (21子コメント)

Apparently the only recently contacted Pirahã tribe who live in the Amazon Rainforest do not have religion as a part of their society. They're a really fascinating group of people. A lot is not known or understood about them yet, and from what I understand one should take what we know about them with a grain of salt, because Daniel Everett, the antropological linguist who has lived and studied them most closely has been called into question for the integrity of his research and methodology.

[–]glittered_turd [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

What methods of his have been called into question? I'm curious.

[–]Frobeniu5 [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

Everett was a Christian missionary, and first went to the Pirahã to convert them.

[–]AwaitingPatch [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

Considering he was the one that was converted, wouldn't it strengthen his claims?

EDIT: Another post clarified things for me.

[–]Frobeniu5 [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

No, it would in fact indicate another form of bias.

[–]AwaitingPatch [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

I mean that his initial biases were shattered. That doesn't mean he is a professional linguist or anthropologist, however, and his methods and conclusions could thus be contested.

[–]NSABlackmailsCongres [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

He turned rathiest and tried to make all sorts of ideological claims to support rathiesm, all of which were easily shot down by Chomsky, who is the authority in linguistics.

[–]imd [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

What's ratheist? Something to do with r/atheism?

[–]burningtaint420 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Worshipers of Wrath? Say....that could be a sweet new religion. We will need....IDK Chaos....or something.

[–]amavritansky [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I may have spoke a little too strongly on that point, now that I look back into what I was reading. I think he's been called out for bias and for not being well-trained in linguistics (he first lived with the Pirahã as a missionary and later studied linguistics and anthropology because of what he was discovering), but most people are holding out for more research because some of his claims seem so radical. For a discussion about his research, check out some of the discussions over at /r/linguistics such as this one:

http://www.reddit.com/r/linguistics/comments/1a9chl/a_fascinating_documentary_about_linguist_daniel/

[–]PrioritySeven [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

However, they do believe in spirits that can sometimes take on the shape of things in the environment. These spirits can be jaguars, trees, or other visible, tangible things including people.

Sounds like they are shamanistic like many cultures were.

[–]Police_Telephone_Box [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Wikipedia says that their religion is Animism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animism

[–]amavritansky [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

A good point. I suppose it re-raises the question raised elsewhere in this thread about what religion is. For this group of people, they do apparently believe in spirits, which we could call a way of explaining strange phenomena--and if you consider that a religion, then they certainly are religious.

[–]QuouarQuite the arrogant one. [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

However, even the Wikipedia article points out that they use charms and jewelry to ward off spirits, and that they believe the jungle around them is filled with spirits.That is very much a religious belief.

[–]TerrestrialBeing [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

I would think that superstitions can exist independent of a religion.

[–]QuouarQuite the arrogant one. [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'll grant you that the definition of religion is a debatable thing, but having spirituality and beliefs in the supernatural is pretty much step one for "do you have a religion."

[–]onionleekdude [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I would argue that while they might not have deeply codified religious structure, thier superstions are strongly religious.

[–]NSABlackmailsCongres [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If you're making supernatural ontological claims with entailments: "spirits exist and we better behave in a certain way or else" that is religion.

[–]babylllamadrama [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Everett's book about the Piraha is "Don't Sleep, There Are Snakes", and it's pretty great. What about his research and methodology was called into question, though? I knew he and Chomsky don't agree on certain aspects of grammar, but I never heard anything questioning the integrity of Everett's work.

[–]NSABlackmailsCongres [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Everett made up this whole narrative about the Piraha as an attack on Chomsky's linguistic theories, which are almost single handedly responsible for causing the academic reversal that stopped treating people like bags of meat to be slaughtered and started treating them like human beings whose creative drives should be supported.

Needless to say, Everett's attacks failed and are not taken seriously by the academy. Everett was trying to find a counter example to disprove universal grammar, which is the idea that all humans are capable of in principle of learning any other human language, that is all languages are basically generated as variations from the same basic elements, which have a rational structure that correctly relates to reality.

What is at stake: If Chomsky's work is overturned, then we basically go back to Vietnam-era global politics, where people don't have individual existence apart from the involvement with the state (all people are property of the state) and there's no possibility of mulitcultural societies (there must be one culture and one language to rule and dominate the whole world for its own good). However, overturning Chomsky is impossible unless the world goes full deathwish stupid, thanks to the power of his observations and rigor of his theories.

2 Major points of Chomsky: You can raise a Japanese baby in New York and it will learn english very easily. Tabula Rasa mind means a dictator could fill it up with all kinds of bad stuff.