1204
1205

Female Genital Mutilation Banned In Nigeria (nigeria.aplus.com)

the_last_broadcast が 投稿

並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A
あなたは単独のコメントのスレッドを見ています。

残りのコメントをみる →

[–]DeadbaseXI 5ポイント6ポイント  (91子コメント)

Isn't circumcision also genital mutilation? I feel like there's a double standard there. What if I want my entire penis?

[–]derpoftheirish [スコア非表示]  (42子コメント)

Regardless of your stance on circumcision, you must know it's not the same thing.

[–]newaccount [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's the same thing, just different degrees.

[–]DeadbaseXI [スコア非表示]  (28子コメント)

Cutting bits of genitals off without consent, resulting in blood, pain, and loss of sensation... The distinction, objectively speaking, seems academic.

[–]Nerkson [スコア非表示]  (25子コメント)

Feeling wise, isn't FGM akin to cutting off the entire penis of a male?

From what I have read, FGM tends to be more brutal, takes much longer to heal, and has horrific side effects aside from loss of pleasure for sex.

FGM is also performed to control women. It removes a majority of the pleasure of sex, and can cause a lifetime of pain.

Male Circumcision is still something that a consenting adult should choose to perform on their own body (if not simply disallowed for the benefits no longer really existing in todays society), but it isn't nearly as bad as female genital mutilation.

We should be glad one aspect of it is gone.

[–]Subrosian_Smithy [スコア非表示]  (11子コメント)

Well, there are actually multiple types of FGM which are practiced, some of which are themselves less severe than male circumcision, and some of which are more severe.

Still a good thing that they're trying to end FGM, either way.

[–]HenryPouet [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

some of which are themselves less severe than male circumcision

Example? The least severe I've heard is cutting off the clitoris which would be alike of cutting off the whole head of the penis.

[–]AntiChr1st [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Type 1A is remove of the clitoral hood, which is pretty much the closest thing to a direct equivalent to male circumcision you will find. It often comes along with type 1B, which is cutting of the clitoris, but not necessarily so (thus the distinction).

Also, for example, the pinprick, which is taking a pin and pricking the vagina enough to draw blood. (it was suggested to soothe the religious needs of certain groups without damaging a girls genitals) is also ruled as FGM.

[–]HenryPouet [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Do we have numbers on each kind? Or is it too difficult to accurately census them?

[–]Illicit_Frolicking [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Some only remove the clitoral hood, which is like removing the foreskin. Not only is that not as common as other types of FGM, it's also not like it's done in a hospital with a sterile scalpel and surgical lights. Even when they aren't trying to remove the clitoris, it often happens.

[–]Subrosian_Smithy [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Do you know where I can learn about the frequencies of the different variations of FGM? I only know that variation exists, not what kind is most common, etc.

[–]Illicit_Frolicking [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The World Health Organization has a lot of good information about it. I'm not sure where exactly they discuss frequencies, but I'm sure you can find it on their site.

[–]MackMizzo [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Physiology isn't 1:1 like that you moron. We can't make stupid trans-gender comparisons like that but we can compare them on principle: two invasive, surgical procedures on children's genitals originally intended for hygiene and to inhibit sex.

[–]HenryPouet [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

moron

You are not very nice ;______;

[–]MackMizzo [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's just an issue that has become somewhat emotional for me as I've realized how blind and caustic people are about it.

[–]howdy_im_jon [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The least severe would be a symbolic pinprick of the clitoris.

There are also varying degrees as to how much clitoris is removed. Sometimes the whole thing, sometimes the tip, sometimes just a sliver.

In Nigeria, it's generally partial excision of the clitoris, along with removal of the hood and/or partial excision of the labia minora.

[–]VermiciousKnidzz [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

FGM and circumcision are not even in the same ballpark of being the same thing. fuck anyone that says they're the same thing.

[–]AntiChr1st [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You are vastly oversimplifying what FGM is. It's a catch all term that includes everything from the pinprick to complete removal of the clitoris and sewing shut the vagina to ensure virginity.

Your statement is intellectually dishonest at best. It's like saying all weapons are the worst thing in the world and just not saying that "weapons" include everything from a butter knife to a ICBM with a nuclear warhead.

[–]wwoodi [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You do realise FGM stands for lots of different things. I swear some of you are retarded.

[–]93ImagineBreaker [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

There are four types and type four is a pinprick type two is equal female circ. is often called mutilation male circumcision is rarely call mutilation

[–]93ImagineBreaker [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

There are four types and type four is a pinprick type two is equal female circ. is often called mutilation male circumcision is rarely call mutilation

[–]ducksarewet [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Not choosing sides, but "fuck anyone who disagrees with my statement" isn't adding anything valuable to the discussion.

[–]randouser [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

"fuck anyone who says they're the same thing" is akin to putting your fingers in your ear and saying "lalalala I can't hear you". Glad to see you are open to learning more through debate and conversation.

[–]HenryPouet [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Yeah, honestly I'm a bit sick of people trying to simplify it in order to compare it in order to push their agenda. "It's both surgery on genitals!" is like advocating for marijuana legalization with statement like "It's just a plant! Like flowers!" - you're not helping but rather making your own cause look bad to level-minded people. It seems they think it's a competition or something.

[–]newaccount [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I think you are confused:

One is cutting the genitals for religious reasons and the other is cutting the genitals for religious reasons.

That is the only reason why either happens.

[–]HenryPouet [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yes, and marijuana is a plant, just like a flower is a plant. Why is smoking one legal but not the other?

[–]lipidsly [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Two things about that. First, yes, it generally is "worse" for girls but the equivalent would be to chop off the outer lips. Doesnt make life harder as far as peeing/cleanup and sex is still quite enjoyable but you are missing something except the loss of sensation would be equivalent to no longer having a clitoris because the foreskin is the most sensitive part of the penis. And this is done basically for no reason. Second, we have spent thousands of years cutting boys and is a widespread practice in the western world which has amazing technology and education. Yet even in these countries, you can botch a cutting. This can make it painful to have an erection because you dont have enough skin anymore, pain from ejaculation, and constant chafing (which happens even when you do it properly because the head is always exposed. Compare a cut head from and uncut and they look much different).

Now, imagine youre in a 3rd world country where you just kinda eyeball it. Too short? Aw well, fuck it its good enough. Thats essentially what happens in the majority of FGM cases. Poor training, education, any sort of standard, and equipment. No shit itll be worse.

But most importantly, both are bad in any case but if someone wants to mutilate themselves, thats their right. But you shouldnt force someone to. Whether a newborn or a full grown adult. Sadly, society only pays attention when its done to women because chopping off part of a penis is "normal". Just like FMG is "normal" in these 3rd world countries. But again, no one cares

[–]Illicit_Frolicking [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The lips are actually more akin to the scrotum. The direct equivalent here would be removing the clitoral hood.

Also, the clítoris often is removed, and the foreskin is not the most sensitive part of the penis. It does protect the most sensitive part of the penis from being desensitized by rubbing on underwear and pants all day.

[–]origamibutterfly [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

For Female Genital Mutilation otherwise known as Female Circumcision, the clitoris is cut out. In some types of female circumcision, most of the labia minora and majora are cut off and sewn together. In order to give birth, one must cut open the scar tissue. If the birth comes early, sometimes it has to be cut open with any bit of metal around. Rusted metal roof-bits have been used before. FGM in less well off areas of Africa tend to be done without anesthetic and without properly cleaned tools. Sometimes there's still blood on it from the other girls.

Of course, if you lived in a richer area, at least you might have anesthetic and nice clean tools. There might be some disinfectants and antibiotics.

Sometimes they're sewn up too tightly, and peeing becomes slow torturous agony when it heals. Of course, peeing at any time while it's healing is also agony.

Wikipedia is a terrible source, but it matches what I remember reading elsewhere. Maybe it was the Desert Flower book?

The procedures differ according to the ethnic group. They include removal of the clitoral hood and clitoral glans (the visible part of the clitoris), removal of the inner labia and, in the most severe form (known as infibulation), removal of the inner and outer labia and closure of the vulva. In this last procedure, a small hole is left for the passage of urine and menstrual fluid, and the vagina is opened for intercourse and opened further for childbirth. Health effects depend on the procedure, but can include recurrent infections, chronic pain, cysts, an inability to get pregnant, complications during childbirth and fatal bleeding. There are no known health benefits.

[–]JoeFalchetto [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Let's just be happy for this for a second.

[–]nyceee88 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

culturally, physically, sexually, and emotionally though, they are not that comparable. FGM, in many instances, would be the ecquivilant of a male getting castrated. A lot of women are permanently mutilated/can never have sex again/suffer from infections & die.

This is a step in the right direction for women where there are high instances of FGM.

EDIT: why the downvotes? Is banning FGM not a step in the right direction? Am I wrong in saying that there's a high instance of infection, permanent mutilation, and death among FGM victims? If you're going to downvote please elaborate on your opposition. These women are victims of a brutally mysogynistic practice.

[–]FortyYearOldVirgin [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

While I'm in favor of stopping circumcision, I believe your assessment of this horrendous practice known as FGM is correct. I'd even add "enforcing female subservience" to this list.

Your heart and mind seem to be in the right place. Fake internet points be damned (also, i upvoted you).

[–]MackMizzo [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If it's the equivalent of males getting castrated, how are African birthrates astronomical? Why do women primarily endorse this procedure on their daughters? Did you know circumcision in these backwater countries regularly results in serious complications like death/infection as well? (since we're going to compare circumcision carried out in a sterile western medical environment to FGM carried out by poor tribal people with a dirty knife)

Bear in mind FGM has a complete ban in our own countries while circumcision is legal, and often encouraged. But it's more of a priority to harass these undeveloped nations about their problems? Hope I've elaborated. It's sickeningly hypocritical.

[–]Ailuroapult [スコア非表示]  (21子コメント)

You HAD to be that guy didn't you? Why do you think it is necessary for circumcision to be brought up whenever FGM is mentioned? We know circumcision is a problem, but can we not celebrate this step forward without people complaining for once?

[–]cryptamine [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

Because its also genital mutilation and it should be banned too.

[–]NATOuk [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Except for legitimate medical reasons

[–]Illicit_Frolicking [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Those usually don't become apparent until closer to puberty.

[–]Ailuroapult [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Yeah. We already know, because it is mentioned EVERY SINGLE TIME fgm is brought up. At this point, I think people just want to talk about fgm - not circumcision.

[–]newaccount [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Do you follow a religion that endorses circumcision for males?

[–]wwoodi [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

27 million women have had some form of fgm. Almost 1 billion men have had cricumcision. I think it's fair to bring it up

[–]starlinguk [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

True. But I'm having trouble comparing lopping off a bit of foreskin with lopping off a girl's clitoris and sewing most of her vagina shut.

[–]squid_technology [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

Because they are ultimately the same thing. And personally I think circumcision at birth is pretty barbaric. Why the hell can't we just leave a baby's genitals intact?

[–]Ailuroapult [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Nobody is arguing circumcision is ok or that we shouldn't be stopping it! People are saying that for once can we talk about FEMALE circumcision - and exactly, how it is a good thing it is now banned.

[–]ElementalShogun [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

But that's all I ever see or hear about is FMG. Not many people bat an eye to male circumcision, even the WHO cites it as a way to reduce the possibility of contracting aids. All this guy was doing was also chiming in about how he'd like to see progress on this issue as well. No one is taking anything away from the victory of this so calm the fuck down.

[–]MackMizzo [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I feel mildly furious that you seem to be under the impression that FGM gets talked about less. I see regular news stories posted about it on /r/news and /r/worldnews and absolutely none about male circumcision. Hell, look at the terms for example. One sounds vile an barbaric and the other procedural and normal.

One also happens to millions of boys in western nations while the other is mostly contained to 3rd world countries. You really can't see why this is so frustrating? There is absolutely no discussion in the US or elsewhere about getting circumcision banned (while FGM is clearly banned and abhorred). And now our "rights" groups have taken overseas to bring our enlightenment to other countries while categorically ignoring an endemic and massive problem in our own countries.

We will not stop talking about it until it actually becomes an issue on the common Westerners plate, and it isn't. At all.

[–]Ailuroapult [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

And yet every time a FGM post is made the comments are ALL about male circumcision. I think almost every redditor agrees on the issue, so go spread the word in the real world if you want more support.

[–]MackMizzo [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

And here you are enjoying all of your upvotes with trite and unoriginal comments about FGM being the 7th circle of hell while circumcision is butterflies and cupcakes. I see this so many times it has in fact become maddening, I'll admit it. And trust me, I do try to discuss it in regular life.

[–]starlinguk [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

They're not the same thing. I'm against both, but let's not pretend they're the same thing, please.

[–]squid_technology [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Female genital mutilation is worse no question, but circumcision is also pretty fucking awful. Both need to disappear, what irks me is how circumcision is defended as ritual and the norm, when there is such public outcry about female genital mutilation.

[–]93ImagineBreaker [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

There four types type four is a pinprick type two is equal

[–]ElementalShogun [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If some cuts off a child's finger as opposed to his or her hand, I still think either is still pretty fucking horrible.

[–]Illicit_Frolicking [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Cutting off an eyelid is not the same a cutting out an eye. Both are fucked up. You shouldn't do either to infants. But calling them the same is just inaccurate.

[–]DeadbaseXI [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Didn't mean to complain. I don't really care about MGM. Well done Nigeria.

[–]hoffi_coffi [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

To be fair there are several "degrees" of FGM, I am not sure what the current male form would be grouped into. Considering it is regularly done for genuine medical reasons and FGM has none, there is a difference there.

[–]DeadbaseXI [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It is done for "genuine medical reasons" in some cultures. In others, it's just traditional.

[–]AntiChr1st [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The FGM equivalent to male "circumcision" is Type 1A.

[–]BulbasaurusThe7th [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

Genuine medical reason? Like "I don't feel like teaching my son how to clean his penis of do it for him until he's old enough to do it himself. Lets just mutilate it!"?

[–]hoffi_coffi [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

No, I meant people who have conditions such as phimosis. It would be hard to make legislation against circumcision of males when it is regularly done in a medical setting to both children and adults is all I mean.

[–]BulbasaurusThe7th [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

It is intellectually dishonest to claim that in the US almost every single man just happens to need it. It's bullshit. Also, sometimes female circumcision is needed as well for health reasons. Not sure if you know the Honey Badger Radio podcast, but one of the ladies talked about her own partial circumcision once, which she needed for medical reason. Does that justify it being done to women who DIDN'T need it for medical reasons?
There is absolutely nothing hard about saying "you can only have it done for A, medical reasons and B, if a fully grown, adult man actually WANTS it done to himself". What the heck is so hard about it?

[–]Illicit_Frolicking [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Do you happen to recall what that medical reason was? I honestly can't think of anything it could be.

[–]hoffi_coffi [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I am not claiming almost every single man needs it. I am unsure what female circumcision is done for medical reasons and how similar it is to FGM but my understanding was it was rare and quite different (and already contentious in itself, especially in the past for people who show features of both genitalia for example).

Look I know every time FGM is brought up someone leaps in and says "what about MGM eh EH??", but to be honest it helps neither cause one iota.

[–]BulbasaurusThe7th [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

What I don't understand is how anyone can rationalize the idea that it's okay to chop up the genitals of ANYONE without their consent and without a medical reason. No, there is no difference based on "well, it's a boy, so... somehow it's okay" and any chance I will get to protest against the barbaric "tradition" of mutilating people of any gender, even if some people think it's okay.

[–]Illicit_Frolicking [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Phimosis can't even be identified at the age where most circumcisions are done.

[–]GoldenWulwa [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Both are infant genital mutilation and should be illegal (medical conditions aside), but FGM is more severe and results in loss of pleasure completely and leads to many more issues with pain and infection. A penis can still still feel pleasure without the foreskin, which is essentially is just a hood of skin. The vulva will lose the clitoris, which has the same amount of nerve endings as the head of penis in a smaller area. It makes pleasure from sex nearly impossible.

[–]DeadbaseXI [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I know all this, Wulwa, I'm just pointing out that we also mutilate boys' genitalia, and somehow it's completely okay. Shouldn't there be a rule that nobody is allowed to cut off bits of other people?

[–]GoldenWulwa [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I did say it should be illegal. Both are infant genital mutilation, but one is obviously worse than the other. One being less worse doesn't make it okay.

[–]DeadbaseXI [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

So we agree! Fine! I hate reasonable conversations!

[–]GoldenWulwa [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

There isn't a debate to be had here. Genital mutilation is genital mutilation. It's only calling it out for what it is or defending it.

[–]kellyj6 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Oh Jesus Christ, cry me a river.

[–]DeadbaseXI [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I do. Every day. It actually causes a lot of issues with skin hydration and the mucus tissue around my eyeballs. Plus I spend a lot of money on mops.

[–]bloop322 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

They are both forms of genital mutilation, but male circumcision is not nearly as severe as far as the tissue that is removed.

[–]SirSkelton [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Why do people only seem to care about circumcision once other people start talking about FGM? If its really that big of an issue for you, go do something about it instead of using it as some whining card to play anytime anyone anywhere wants to discuss something with FGM.

[–]AntiChr1st [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

People try to talk about it at other times, but they just get shut down because "it's not important" and "it doesn't matter".

Some people find it annoying when such a big issue isn't being dealt with in their own country while someone else dealing with a similar issue on the other side of the planet is being held up as a great thing.