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China boat death toll exceeds 400, victims mourned. (reuters.com)

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[–]FireFromTheWire 475ポイント476ポイント  (268子コメント)

I don't see why some family members are mad at the government. There's not a lot you can do when a tornado capsizes a cruise ship.

[–]crazymarky 145ポイント146ポイント  (37子コメント)

From what I heard, the ship that sunk was an old cruise. Maybe they are unhappy with the inspection or something. But I would say a new ship would have sunk as well in that situation.

And again, you just can't reason with people who lost families.

[–]lumloon 28ポイント29ポイント  (15子コメント)

The boat was completed in 1994. It was about 20 years old.

[–]nope050715 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That's very young for a cruise ship.

[–]Anipsy 9ポイント10ポイント  (12子コメント)

It was made in china though, wasn't it ?

[–]RaikerCat 31ポイント32ポイント  (8子コメント)

So was your phone.

[–]SpunkyMonkeyEUW 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah but I trust children to make my phones, not adults!

[–]PhilxBefore 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't take a few hundred people cruising on my phone.

[–]soup2nuts [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

What about all the redditors on your phone right now?

[–]holla_snackbar [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The chip running your phone was probably made in Korea or Taiwan though.

But phones are not ships and the Chinese are not good with industrial metals like US, Japan, or Germany. They don't have the skill, and they use cheaper alloy blends also. Tools made in China are junk, I imagine any heavy equipment they make is the same.

コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

    [–]Pascalwb 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Everything is made in china.

    [–]Odd-Fuck 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Post made in China.

    コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

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        [–]SEND_TITTIES 3ポイント4ポイント  (19子コメント)

        Isn't that what happens when there are poor standards? That's pretty much how China rose to current levels today.

        [–]Cryoglobulin 42ポイント43ポイント  (5子コメント)

        Poror standards do not help but neither does a tornado ...

        [–]Barbarossa_5 66ポイント67ポイント  (4子コメント)

        Maybe if they had a higher quality of tornado.

        [–]chibbisaurus 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

        perhaps a sharknado

        [–]Based_Bored [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

        Woah woah woah, do you think society is ready for a Sharknado? The science is sound its just... People may not comprehend the true brilliance of such a masterpiece.

        [–]ConfuzedAzn [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

        So much free food flung to your doorstep

        コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

          [–]crazymarky 14ポイント15ポイント  (8子コメント)

          This is inland river we are talking about, and I don't think higher standard on inland cruise will save you from rapid tornado.

          [–]Yangce 5ポイント6ポイント  (6子コメント)

          The ship sunk in just one minute,its too rapid.And most of the passengers are elder,only 14 survivers.

          [–]illegaljokes 7ポイント8ポイント  (5子コメント)

          Parts of the Yangtze have insanely strong currents. I don't know which part this ship sunk in, but there are parts where the current is so strong even an Olympic swimmer would drown.

          [–]Yangce 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

          In east HuBei part,many accidents happens there,this one is the biggest in recorded history.It's near the three gorges dam(chinese calling).Some stupid on chinese website blame the dam again.You don't know,they balme everything happen near Yangtze to the dam,even the earthquake.

          [–]illegaljokes 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

          Hang on, are the earthquake claims partially legitimate? I remember seeing a TV report about how the massive amount of water can potentially change local tectonic movement.

          [–]Yangce 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

          I saw the documentary too.But I mean some of the comments they put on Yushu earthquake,magnitude 7.1,and almost every earthquake happens near the Yangtze.Luck they don't blame Nepal earthquake to it.They just against every decision the government makes.Is it alike in U.S.?

          [–]Deeliciousness 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Yep. There are people who blame the government for everything in U.S. as well. That's where the "Thanks, Obama" jokes come from.

          [–]accountnamedaccount 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Better weather monitoring and communication might.

          [–]Metalsand 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

          That's like saying stone brick walls should be used instead of drywall and wood just because there's a risk of a nuclear ICBM landing in the city. If you're lucky, and far enough away stone brick walls could stand a chance at saving your life but...the odds of a nuclear ICBM landing in your city are near zero.

          Tornadoes are not a common threat of boats on the open sea, and even if they were, a newer boat isn't going to withstand a tornado any better.

          [–]ohmygodbees [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          No, but they can be a threat on inland waterways.

          [–]balthisar 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          This is the first accident of this scale that we've heard of. Now I have no way of looking up the number of passenger miles ever conducted by cruised on the Yangtze, but I'd be willing to bet a year of income that it's still an order of magnitude safer than driving a car in the USA (and not part of the bet but only hyperbole: two orders safer than driving in China).

          [–]Bossmang [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          Err the US had child labor and horrific labor laws in general during the industrial revolution? It took us a while to get out of those too.

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            [–]ParkItSon 263ポイント264ポイント  (204子コメント)

            People in China are just generally angry at the government. What most Westerners don't realize is there is a real legitimacy crisis in the Chinese system.

            People tolerate the party because the meteoric economic rise really has been good for everyone. But it is well understood that the government is insanely corrupt. In many people's eyes the government lacks legitimacy.

            So when something goes wrong people are outraged, it might not always be logical or reasonable. But people's discontentment with the government just spills over whenever extreme events like this occur.

            [–]Shippoyasha 105ポイント106ポイント  (43子コメント)

            A lot of Chinese citizens are angry that the transparency in this time of crisis was simply not there from the government and the government's tactic apparently was to 'appease the masses' so that 'social order' is retained. Seriously cold way of looking at the situation and the citizens are livid about that.

            Not to mention the search and rescue operation has been a bit of a botch job and a slapped together effort, considering a high ranking official had to directly intervene due to a lack of coordination right after the disaster. Instead of making it seem like the government was taking charge with the high ranking official joining in, it just highlighted just how inept the government was with disaster management and rescue. As it showed a grim lack of disaster contingency.

            [–]C45 56ポイント57ポイント  (74子コメント)

            You're confabulating a bunch of terms here. The Chinese government derives legitimacy through performance, while democracies derive them through elections. This isn't even necessarily a bad thing for China.

            The Chinese Government realised long ago that they are accountable for the welfare of the people. If the people are unhappy with their lot, they will blame the Government and demand change. In contrast, Western Governments are elected by the electorate and if the Government is incompetant, the electorate has to be accountable for their choice; they can't blame anybody else. That is the reason why the West claims that Democracy is necessarily 'chaotic and messy' but it is a most stable political system. Thus if a country wants constant 'stable mediocity' then democracy is the system of choice.

            [–]ParkItSon 1ポイント2ポイント  (72子コメント)

            The Chinese government derives legitimacy through performance.

            Alright I'll accept that definition.

            But since there is such a massive wealth gap within the Chinese economy. And since there is so much rampant corruption within the system. The "performance" of the government and the economy by extension is not enough legitimacy for everyone.

            That's why there are so many protest events and such general dissatisfaction within huge swathes of the population.

            [–]Maslo59 10ポイント11ポイント  (14子コメント)

            But since there is such a massive wealth gap within the Chinese economy.

            Chinese economy is growing very fast and the wealth gap has more to do with some people getting wealthier than the poor getting poorer. In fact hundreds of millions were lifted out of poverty in recent decades. So this kind of wealth gap is not neccessarily a problem. As long as the economy keeps growing fast I do not believe Chinese government will face serious unrest.

            [–]SomalianMillionaire 26ポイント27ポイント  (26子コメント)

            I've lived in China for 2 or so years (but mind you I was 5 then, but still) and have visited it quite a lot; I also have family in the country.

            There aren't actually a lot of protest events. When it they do happen, it's usually just one or two people, with a shit ton of passersbys; these protesters are seen like doomsayers. From the people I talked to in China about the government; the general consensus is "if it ain't broke don't fix it" but a lot of people do hate Mao.

            I don't even consider myself Chinese. But what you are saying is just ignorant.

            EDIT: Before anyone wants to seriously reply to me about life in satan overlord 420666 communis totalistarian chinese government; do you actually know what it's like to live in China?

            [–]Iornukrum 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I have lived in China for 6 years now. Never have I ever seen a protest, although I heard from a few in the news. People here aren't more dissatisfied on average than people in western democracies. The people who are truly disadvantaged, the migrant workers and their families, or the multitude of beggars and street peddlers, who get pushed around by the Chengguan, are not a danger to public order, let alone the party regime. The people the CPC tries to placate are the well-to-do city lower middle and middle class and above.

            [–]balthisar 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I live in China. Chinese don't give a shit about the government unless there's a problem that affects them. In fact Chinese don't give a shit about anyone else at all, unless it affects them. There's the whole "family" thing, but in the end, they don't even give a shit about their families unless it's something that affects them personally.

            This is a gross generalization, of course, and I know a lot of Chinese that aren't like I describe. However it's a generalization that is safe to make about Chinese, that is generally not so true about Americans (again, as a generalization).

            There are lots of good Chinese, just as there are good Democrats, good Republicans, good Green Party people, good rednecks, good hipsters, whatever; take your generalization, there are good people amongst any group.

            [–]DieselFuel1 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            waryaaaaa. There are Somalis in China???

            [–]ParkItSon 1ポイント2ポイント  (16子コメント)

            What part of China did you live in? I'm guessing it wasn't the interior?

            [–]SomalianMillionaire 1ポイント2ポイント  (15子コメント)

            Yes it was; near Hefei.

            Mind you, Xinjiang, Tibet, and the SARs are all different stories. But you're talking about China prime.

            [–]ParkItSon 3ポイント4ポイント  (14子コメント)

            Hefei isn't the interior, it's in East China, when I say interior I don't mean the coast I mean the central / rugged / mountainous / non-riverine regions of China (where its 600 million poorest people live).

            Eastern China is doing quite well the people there are comparatively very rich. The people in the interior are far far poorer and less content with the government.

            [–]nomadph 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

            what do you expect? it's mountainous, hard to suddenly ramp up progress when land is hard to get through. so they focused on one side first.

            the fact is that China's growth is extremely fast. you can't expect 100% of the country to be first class municipals in a few decades. do you really believe progress in mountain regions aren't in their pipelines? have you already seen the groundwork so far on their trains going to these areas?

            you are very short sighted and have no understanding of how things work.

            [–]ArchmageXin 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

            what do you expect? it's mountainous, hard to suddenly ramp up progress when land is hard to get through. so they focused on one side first.

            The idiot westerner complaint:

            1) China leave non-Eastern China folks to die/rot in non development.

            2) Chinese developments in western China only result in useless infrastructure and ghost towns.

            [–]Iornukrum 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Yeah, but Western Chinese are in no way a threat to the social or political order at large.

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              [–]darcmosch -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

              Sorry man, but a lot of what you said just flat out isn't true. Some segments of the population might be more apt to feel a certain way but it's not like that.

              There are a ton of protests. They government will allow it as long as it is not directed at the government. If they protest another country, company they don't care about or an issue they'll let it slide but monitor the situation. They usually don't let reporters go cover it though. Some local weibos or blogs will pick it up and if they govt feels it's too much, you won't see that blog very active after that.

              Mao is 70% good, 30% bad. Uneducated Chinese (most) and even a large number of the educated still subscribe to this.

              [–]Daheixiong 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

              There are definitely not a ton of protests and what that guy said is relatively spot on. If you live in China, people for the most part DO think the government is corrupt, but many people either A) Don't care enough to say anything. They are just one person and opening their mouth invites more trouble than necessary. B) Have no legitimate way of protesting. Others have already mentioned that the internet has become a certain venue and tool for protest, but most of the main websites are monitored. These doomsday people are spot on. They are old guys going through their neighborhoods slowly on a bicycle with one of those megaphones blaring a prerecorded message about how the government has fucked up. Neighbors many times shrug these people off and will say they have "issues." And that 's that.

              [–]SomalianMillionaire 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

              Have you actually been to China? Do you actually know what Weibo is? Without Googling, can you actually tell me the main social media outlet in China?

              I don't know why I brought Mao up as he is irrelevant to this; but he's a lot more complicated than I said he was.

              [–]Iornukrum 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

              The protests are in most cases directed at either private enterprises for screwing over workers, or at the lowest levels of administration out in the countryside, where there is most of the highhanded corruption and bullying. The higher government agencies usually just act as a mediator between parties or they send in the riot police to stamp out the fire. The fact remains that the protests are not directed at the party itself or the legitimacy of the government.

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                [–]C45 7ポイント8ポイント  (23子コメント)

                Pew surveys show that the CCP approval rating is an absurd 70-80%.

                And you need to cite some sources about protests events and dissatisfaction from huge swathes of the population. You also need to keep in mind that when people protest not wanting a landfill being built in their neighborhood that's not really a threat to the central government's legitimacy.

                [–]darcmosch 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Exactly most protests are against policy or for issues that the central govt doesn't care about. When there were protests here in China over the Senkaku Islands here in Sichuan, some people tried to snuck in banners for other issues like democracy and got like 20 steps before they were apprehended.

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                  [–]amusha 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

                  What "many protest events"? Exept for Hong Kong which is an odd case under a different system, protests in China got blocked so fast and so efectively that I never heard about them and I doubt that they could ever grow to large crowd.

                  [–]akesh45 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  There are plenty of large protest but they tend to be about local interests.

                  Nytimes isn't going to cover a NIMBY protest over a power sation or condo development.

                  [–]darcmosch 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Senkaku Islands, dams, power plants, factories are just a few of the largest ones in Sichuan over the last few years I've been here

                  [–]EllesarisEllendil 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Considering China is a billion people, I'd think "huge swathes" protesting would make international news. Heck a mini Chinese swath would outnumber most countries. I respectfully do not believe you.

                  [–]Nascar_is_better 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  A wealth gap exists for all developing economies, and having no wealth gap isn't an indicator of a government that's performing well. Otherwise a country where everyone's dirt poor would be doing great.

                  People have a preconceived notion that the Chinese government is bad and therefore they're doing a bad job overall. No one's saying the system is without its flaws, but overall they're doing a pretty good job for the past 30 years. 40 years ago the per capita GDP was less than India's and now it's twice as high as India's. Similar strides have been made with living standards and healthcare.

                  This isn't the same government that ruled during the Mao era. They know what they're doing.

                  コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                    [–]Nascar_is_better 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    Some people blame the government whenever bad things happen. The "Thanks Obama" meme is a satire of times when Americans do it.

                    [–]JoeBidenBot 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    ... and thanks to ol' Diamond Joe

                    [–]nomadph 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    do you live in China? what's your source? Fox News?

                    [–]SomalianMillionaire 9ポイント10ポイント  (7子コメント)

                    A country with 1 billion people, and the cultural/political diversity of Eastern Europe. "Generally" just doesn't cut it here, sure you can argue it's a subconscious thing in the masses, but I think it's a somewhat ignorant to say.

                    [–]Tada098 9ポイント10ポイント  (6子コメント)

                    Well, the current government rose to power as Communist ... at the moment, they are anything but Communist. Some of the old guard no doubt feel betrayed.

                    They hand-wave it by re-interpreting Marxist text, claiming they allow private property because they are at the "early stages of communism". Don't think everyone is buying into it though.

                    All in all, if you support Communism, the current party isn't all that Communist. If you support capitalism then you don't really need the party now do you.

                    [–]SomalianMillionaire 10ポイント11ポイント  (5子コメント)

                    Some of the old guard no doubt feel betrayed.

                    The people who were of that age are most probably dead by now.

                    Don't think everyone is buying into it though.

                    Most people I know don't actually care about communism.

                    Most of the people I connected with in China aren't concerned with labels, such as democracy, or communism.

                    Most of them say that it is a very Western value to care about the political system.

                    They just care about getting richer.

                    [–]Tada098 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

                    Most of the people I connected with in China aren't concerned with labels, such as democracy, or communism.

                    Then why the word-twisting to justify private property?

                    China is a big place, I don't think you speak for everyone.

                    [–]SomalianMillionaire 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

                    China is a big place, I don't think you speak for everyone.

                    Yea, it is, and I definitely don't speak for everyone, but I am one of those voices and I've also spoken to many others about this topic, old-young, middle-lower class, Han-Hui-Chinese Mongolians-Chinese Koreans, most of the Han actually think around the lines of that, the people of minorities I've spoken to don't seem to care about politics, but they do note the lack of their culture in China (Mongolians don't learn Mongolian in Chinese schools etc. etc.).

                    I am sure other commentors of Chinese descent or from China can also contribute.

                    [–]Bossmang [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                    This is on point seriously. It is just such a western thing to care about politics to an enormous degree. I bet a vast amount of the people commentating on this issue are American. Just stop to consider how different the Asian people you meet are from you. Your asian American friends and how they view their lives in comparison to you. I think people take too much of their perspective of China from their own western upbringing here in America. A huge part of Asian culture is a focus on following the crowd, not rocking the boat, and aiming to become successful. Here in the West it is individuality and setting off on your own. There are benefits and risks to both viewpoints, but you need to take it into account when looking at government systems.

                    [–]itonlygetsworse 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Go to any country, China, Korea, Japan, Russia, and many more. They all have problems with their government. Corruption has become more and more transparent as time has gone on during this long "peace".

                    [–]remjob61 2ポイント3ポイント  (8子コメント)

                    In all seriousness... are there any governments out there in the world that AREN'T corrupt?

                    [–]pyroxyze 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    There are varying degrees of corruption, however. In America, the chance that you can bribe a cop who pulled you over for speeding is much, much lower than in India for example. There is corruption in both countries, but corruption is much more pervasive in India.

                    [–]Bossmang [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                    Yeah but in the US the only difference is you might not be able to directly bribe the cop, but you sure as hell are going to win in court if you are wealthy. Seriously we have to look no further than the financial crisis to see that corruption is everywhere, the US included.

                    [–]too_late_to_party 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    I doubt there's any that isn't corrupt AT ALL, but there definitely are governments that keep corruption as low as possible.

                    http://www.transparency.org/cpi2014/results

                    [–]ParkItSon 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

                    No, people are corrupt and so are governments. All human governments will contain some level of corruption. But the levels of corruption very greatly. Generally speaking the pluralist the government the more corrupt it will be. Simply because unchecked power does really give people a big incentive to strive for absolute control.

                    [–]RaiderRaiderBravo 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    All human governments organizations are corrupt. It's not like the public sector has a monopoly on this.

                    [–]xiaokangwang 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    The problem in China is you can never publish a report about corruption by yourself. All report about corruption is announced from the upper part of party.

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                      [–]emuparty [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                      What is their suggestion?

                      People usually demand democracy because of pro-democratic propaganda but there is zero evidence of democracy being less corrupt. Quite the opposite actually.

                      I would bet a lot of money that China would be a massive failure under democracy and i,'s one of the worst things that can happen to the country, so what alternative do they suggest?

                      People are discontent with their governments everywhere. In fact, the last time I looked at surveys, the Chinese people are actually more content on average than Americans are with theirs.

                      I think the main problem is that in China even a minority of 10% wanting something means 130 MILLION people protesting. That's why it gets more attention.

                      [–]elwarro [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                      Sounds like Mexico...

                      [–]MathW [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                      You act like the same thing doesn't happen here. Something terrible with a high death toll, and people immediately point fingers at the government saying what they should have done to learn/prevent the event and what policies should have been in place beforehand. I'm thinking of 9/11, hurricane Katrina, etc.,but really anything that is tragic and makes national news for more than a few days.

                      [–]chopper5 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      But in Transformer's 4 they were so effective and righteous. Everyone knew kung fu and drank Shuhua. I'm experiencing some serious cognitive dissonance from this news, I need a Bud Light(TM).

                      [–]HowDo_I_TurnThisOn 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

                      People keep saying this, but I haven't seen or heard any complaint in the weeks I've been here.

                      [–]ParkItSon 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

                      Different parts of China are very different, also I don't assume people just go off on their government with strangers.

                      [–]commoncorvus 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      Especially foreigners. Talking badly about China is akin to losing face.

                      [–]xiaokangwang 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      Communism party have devoted years and years to let people believe CCP=China(Nation)=Chinese civilization.

                      [–]Dantae4C [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                      I don't know why you're getting downvoted but what you said is true. Bad-mouth CCP in public/on social media and some lunatics will jump to accuse you of unpatriotic

                      [–]Seen_Unseen -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

                      Chinese aren't just angry at their government, Chinese are easy to rally against anything. I still remember last year when Japan started laying claims on the islands all of a sudden Chinese literally put Japanese cars on fire. Even their own cars. Dealerships were put on fire and so on. They even trashed the local consulate here (with help of the police). Then with Singapore Airlines when that crashed, the people here were outraged that it happened and the inadequacy of the organization.

                      This is the big danger within China, there are may Chinese and they are easily influenced to riot. It's something their own government also knows so that's why you normally see they keep a tight grip on everything. Media, organizations, groups anything they keep an eye on just in case some go nuts.

                      [–]biglionking 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

                      What are you talking about? The only Singapore airlines crash in its history was in the year 2000 and it was in Taiwan and only Singaporeans and Taiwanese died in the crash. No mainland Chinese involved whatsoever.

                      Are you referring to Malaysia airlines, an airline from a completely different country that was utterly inept in handling the whole situation?

                      [–]lumloon 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      The largest groups of pax on the Singapore plane were Americans and Taiwanese. No Chinese Mainlanders were on that flight.

                      [–]commoncorvus 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      Chinese mainlanders consider Taiwan a part of China.

                      [–]lumloon 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      I am aware of that being spiritually. When nationalities/citizenships are being tallied though often Mainland, Hong Kong, Macau, and ROC/Taiwan are separated.

                      The politically correct way of doing so in Mainland China is just to call ROC/Taiwan citizens "Chinese Taipei citizens"

                      コメントをもっと表示する (7 返事)

                        [–]pnoozi 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

                        Some are mad the the ship entered into the area despite the dangerous weather conditions.

                        [–]voxl 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        I don't see why some family members are mad at the government.

                        Not mad at the gov that it happened. Mad about gov's behavior in the aftermath. And I mean come on, this is the Chinese communist party you're taking about.

                        Maybe this will help.

                        Family members of the ferry victims, who have converged on the town of Jianli in China’s central Hubei province, have been warned not to talk to the media. Some have been followed by security personnel, as if their loss somehow makes them suspect. Reuters reported that other relatives in Shanghai, where the tour agency that filled the ship is based, were physically assaulted by uniformed Chinese police.

                        Many have complained about a lack of information from government sources. Censors are scouring the Internet, even targeting the words “Eastern Star.” Members of the Chinese media have been hushed.

                        [–]Prettyboiflocko 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        I think they are angry because there were weather warnings earlier that evening.

                        [–]cqm 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        hm, I heard water spouts are usually harmless

                        tell me more about this tornado?

                        [–]gjchen34 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                        Sure, since you're clearly struggling to get it:

                        Not all water spouts are tornadoes over water.

                        But all tornadoes over water are water spouts. Tornadic/Mesocyclonic waterspouts to be exact.

                        [–]TrunaDragon 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        I think most of the anger stems from the government's handling of the situation afterwards. There still isn't much information available at all from authorities to family members (i.e. when/where to claim remains of loved ones or a compiled list of the deceased), and they were brushed off from most local government offices.

                        [–]ReevJax 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        I read that the ship had been modified to hold more people

                        [–]lex_a_jt 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        They have earth quake resistant buildings. Time for tornado resistant boats. Unless it's already a thing. If it is.. well then..

                        [–]OuiNon 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        It's typical big government mentality. When you tell yourcitizens the government is the be all to end all, you get the credit when it goes good and the blame when it goes bad.

                        [–]emuparty [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                        The same reason people went absolutely crazy over the ferry disaster in South Korea: They need someone to blame. (And it's also pushed as propaganda against the Chinese government, because people love to jump on every chance they get to do that.)

                        In countries like Germany there are charity organizations dealing with disasters like this.

                        Like the German Seenotretter (German sea rescuers). The government is not responsible for such things and it also happens not often enough to justify using taxes to fund permanent programs.

                        If Chinese people want services that protect people from such harm, they need volunteers and charity money. Not even most developed nations with the most money spent on social programs and infrastructure have programs to rescue people in such a situation.

                        [–]TheDark1 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        The problem with retaining absolute control over information and not telling the truth is that people just assume you're lying all the time. In China most people just accept that the news is rubbish propaganda, which it mostly is.

                        [–]miraoister 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        WTF, it was caused by a tornado?

                        [–]Azonata [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                        China is so rife with corruption that it's quite possible that someone was paid of to keep the boat in a state of disrepair, or to go out despite bad weather conditions. At the end of the day nothing happens in China without someone making a quick and dirty buck from it.

                        [–]Arseh0le -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Yes. Tornado. Adds up...,

                        コメントをもっと表示する (9 返事)

                          [–]JohnMakesHisMove 37ポイント38ポイント  (1子コメント)

                          Is it just me or are you guys getting a thumbnail of a monkey wearing makeup...

                          [–]redpandaeater 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          Yeah, I feel like an asshole for laughing so hard at it when the news report of the ship is so tragic and I doubt the monkey is having a fun life either. But oh damn was it sexy.

                          [–]loving_you 60ポイント61ポイント  (33子コメント)

                          Everytime i heard cruise ship accident, the captain always among who survived first. Something is fucking wrong with the ship structure design, maybe create more accesses for emergency exit to passengers??

                          [–]crazymarky 160ポイント161ポイント  (20子コメント)

                          I dunno, for this particular incident the captain was doing his last check before sleep and was flung out while on deck. The ship sunk in 2 minute, I doubt there is much for him to do.

                          [–]turkeygiant 90ポイント91ポイント  (18子コメント)

                          It is totally the Captain's duty to do everything they can to ensure the safety of their passengers, but if the reports of just how quickly this boat capsized and went under are accurate I agree there was probably nothing he could do, so if he could save his life he should have.

                          The bigger question to be answered is were they operating outside of safe standards. Was this just a freak storm that could not be accounted for, or were there safety measures for such situations that weren't followed?

                          [–]DroidsRugly 57ポイント58ポイント  (7子コメント)

                          Well he's just a captain, not Captain America.

                          [–]RoswellSpaceman 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                          The bigger question to be answered is were they operating outside of safe standards. Was this just a freak storm that could not be accounted for, or were there safety measures for such situations that weren't followed?

                          This accident could have been avoided, and the captain is, most likely, at fault. He was well aware that there was dangerous weather ahead, yet he chose to sail directly into the storm while other boats stopped and anchored until it passed:

                          Up ahead, a violent lightning storm lit up the dark sky and rain pounded ships on the Yangtze River. At 5 p.m. on Monday, the local maritime bureau sent a notice intended for all vessels, warning them to expect heavy rain and thunderstorms for the next six hours.

                          At least two vessels, a cruise ship and a ship that transported cars, stopped their upstream journeys, dropping their anchors into the shallow, muddy water.

                          But the Oriental Star sailed on. Time-stamped video footage captured by a camera on another vessel shows the cruise ship — with four tiers of brightly lit cabins — heading into the darkness and driving rain about 33 minutes before it capsized. Two days later, only 14 people among the 456 aboard have been found alive.

                          The decision to sail into what clearly seemed to be a severe storm was one of several made by the ship’s captain, Zhang Shunwen, that came under scrutiny on Wednesday as hopes faded for finding additional survivors of China’s worst passenger ship disaster in decades.

                          http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/world/asia/decisions-by-captain-in-yangtze-ship-disaster-come-under-scrutiny.html

                          He should've stopped sailing like the other boats, but he didn't. This will end up being yet another passenger ship disaster caused by neglect from the captain.

                          [–]CydeWeys [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                          Thanks for quoting this. It seems pretty damning. In this light, what the hell was he thinking pushing his ship into that storm?

                          [–]UrMumsKnickers 2ポイント3ポイント  (7子コメント)

                          It is totally the Captain's duty to do everything they can to ensure the safety of their passengers

                          Can a captain be criminally charged for not doing everything he can to ensure the safety of all of his passengers? If there's room for 400 people on lifeboats and he has 400 passengers can he be criminally charged for not going down with the ship?

                          [–]illegaljokes 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          A captain doesn't have to go down with the boat, but he has the responsibility to take charge of the education. He's not supposed to leave until he has done all that he can do within reason - in other words until everyone else has left or he believes that he will die if he doesn't leave immediately.

                          [–]Slick424 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                          Can a captain be criminally charged for not doing everything he can to ensure the safety of all of his passengers?

                          Yes.

                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Concordia_disaster#Trials

                          [–]accountnamedaccount 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          were found guilty of manslaughter, negligence and shipwreck

                          There's a big fat different between 'not doing everything he can' and 'gross negligence leading to manslaughter'.

                          [–]kendo545 -4ポイント-3ポイント  (3子コメント)

                          Show me a law or a legal case where 'a captain goes down with his ship' was upheld.

                          [–]UrMumsKnickers 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

                          Why would I? I'm the one challenging the concept in the first place

                          [–]aetheriality [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                          pretty sure he "flung" himself out

                          [–]SuperFlowLess 25ポイント26ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          Well this is a little more complicated than 'this must be all the Captains fault.' I haven't sailed on a cruise ship before, but a vessel that carries +400 people must have some other officers on it. There are other Mates that would be on watch on the bridge, it's not like the Captain sits up there the whole voyage, hell it's standard that the Captain isn't there unless leaving/entering port or during some dicey underway maneuvering. It is their duty to inform the Captain as soon as anything seems fishy, whether it's weather/shipping traffic/machinery problems. If this was a freak occurance, The Captain may have never been informed because nobody knew before it was too late.

                          I'm not a Chinese officer, and I'm not even a Mate, so I'm not really sure how they receive weather reports, but honestly unless there is some notice, the quality and vigilance of the officers and crew is more important than how the Captain is going to react, because he may not even have a say until the situation has passed.

                          Also, part of the reason why I don't work on a cruise ship is because untrained passengers are a pretty big liability. Even if there is an accessible exit, an out of control ship is incredibly difficult to navigate. It's going to be difficult for someone who even knows the plan like the back of their hand (US crews have to train for emergencies once a week) so someone who may have glanced at a placard or half listened to a safety briefing is going to find themselves having a tough time trying to remember where the life raft is when the vessel is sideways and sinking. Although, overcrowding a vessel is not unheard of, and that's a huge safety liability, so there could be some truth to there been an insufficient escape plan because the capacity was exceeded.

                          [–]DrivingMyType59 17ポイント18ポイント  (3子コメント)

                          The ship capsized within two minutes at 21:38 at night while most of the passengers were elders (>50 years old) so the only a few people were awake at that time. There really isn't much the captain could do with in 2 minutes. He probably didn't abandon the ship and simply got lucky and got rescued. You are thinking about the captain of MV Sewol, who had plenty of time to evacuate the ship but instead he ordered the passengers (mostly children) to stay put and bailed out himself.

                          [–]illegaljokes 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

                          Wasn't there another captain who abandoned ship only to be ordered to return at gun point by the coast guard?

                          [–]BlazeErryDay 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

                          The Italian captain is who I believe you're speaking g of. He wasn't ordered to return at gunpoint, but the other captains and commanders on the radio were telling him to get his ass back on the boat and calling him a coward.

                          I believe he is facing serious charges for abandoning his post. Now, the charges aren't all for abandoning ship, but he messed up and is going to jail for 16 years.

                          http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/02/italian-cruise-ship-captain-16-year-jail-sentence-150211114054688.html

                          [–]Sleepy_One 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          It was the Italian Coast guard Captain De Falco on the phone who screamed at him to get back on the boat.

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX_08zcCmx8

                          [–]trav110 14ポイント15ポイント  (3子コメント)

                          If a ship capsizes there is not a whole lot that can be done from the passengers perspective. Imagine the room you're in right now suddenly turning on its side 90 degrees. Now the wall is a floor and the only way out is through a door that's now on your ceiling.... you're fucked.

                          [–]Solut1on 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          The captain also lost his wife

                          コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                            [–]ShureYnaut 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            I feel like "victims mourned" is a given. It would be incredibly strange for such an event to happen and have "no victims mourned"

                            [–]an_internet_denizen 18ポイント19ポイント  (4子コメント)

                            How does a tornado in the middle of a river flip a boat?

                            I'm sure there is precedence here but this sounds so strange.

                            [–]brildenlanch 35ポイント36ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Tornado's create alot of wind. I mean, I'm not a scientist but it's the same reason a boat won't sail through a hurricane.

                            [–]PurpleBanner 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            How does a tornado in the middle of a river flip a boat?

                            Air pressure.

                            [–]theonewhomknocks 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Tornadoes on land can fling buildings through the air quite easily. So it follows that a tornado on a river could flip a boat.

                            コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                              [–]mrlafleur 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              Having seen ships on the Yangtze this comes to no surprise - even more so when faced with unregular natural circumstances. But still 400 sounds like a crazy amount of people having been killed. This shouldn't happen on a river. And then of course everything before and after has to do with the system - implementation of safety measures, investments in the boats, corruption. Perhaps they'll oak away the boss of the company and that's it. But things are starting to boil in China more so year after year. May these unfortunate souls find a peaceful resting place.

                              [–]WalterCronkitesGhost 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                              Does anyone know if there's a structural reason for all these large boat flips in the last few years?

                              [–]unholynight [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                              I'm not am engineer but I would guess is that is has something to do with how tall the boats are and how overloaded they are, plus if I remember correct they ship in South Korea was modified from its original design and was taller that intended. This doesn't included the ships that hit rocks and stuff which causes water to change the balance of the ship

                              [–]KingWrong 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              wow that guy nearly made me cry with his rational empathy. my condolences.

                              [–]Vanoverj 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              Is the "victims mourned" part necessary?

                              [–]Brewtown [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                              Oh, look at that..... The captain survived.... 14 out of 400...

                              [–]daznable 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                              A tragedy like this happens and all I see in this thread is argument about Chinese government... Come on

                              [–]T_F_Catus [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                              Everybody knows that Reddit hates Chinese government.

                              [–]leocst 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              Rip.

                              [–]root_superuser 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              A ship can carry a boat, but not vice versa. For some reason I get very pissed off when people use the two interchangeably.

                              [–]gigabyte898 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                              Vice Premier Ma Kai has been dispatched to meet family members personally.

                              "It made me feel incredibly warm. When he shook my hand and said a few words to me, told us to keep on going. I felt that he didn't seem like a political leader at all. He was so genial. He was like my own father," Wang Hua, 42, who lost both parents on the ship, told Reuters of her meeting with Ma.

                              That's really nice if him to do that. Honestly I was pretty surprised someone would do something like that from what I heard of the Chinese government

                              [–]jussnf [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                              There are both good people and bad people in most groups

                              [–]jotaroh [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                              terrible disaster

                              [–]TheBlob [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                              Looking at the picture of that boat I'm not surprised it capsized. This is a river boat and yet look at all the levels above the waterline. Unless this boat had significant ballast then the boat was top heavy and once it leaned to a certain angle it was going to flip. Either the ballast tanks were empty or the boat had a serious design flaw. America had a similar accident 100 years ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Eastland

                              [–]kisses_joy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                              Anywhere you go in China there are 10x more people than you expect... or should be allowed. *source: me in Shanghai for months

                              [–]Shulerbop -3ポイント-2ポイント  (6子コメント)

                              /r/titlegore

                              [–]marshsmellow 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

                              That's in no way title gore. That's a standard use of a gapping comma. It's used all the time in broadsheets.

                              [–]Shulerbop -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

                              Didn't realize it was the source title- still doesn't make sense to put mourn in past tense without specifying an event.

                              [–]marshsmellow 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                              It's an ongoing, popular, story so I guess 'China Boat' implies the event.

                              [–]Shulerbop 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              Yeah, but they are still mourning because of that event, past tense only makes sense if you phrase 'mourn' to mean attending a ceremony/service for the dead. If you don't specify it was a memorial, saying mourned implies they are over it.

                              I might be a bit loopy, its 2 30 in the AM.

                              [–]flyafar 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              I understand why titles used to be truncated, as page real-estate was a commodity in the print world. I can only guess that the practice continues as some sort of journalistic tradition. FFS it's not that hard to add the 1-3 letter words that make a title grammatically correct. Commas are not a replacement for actual words.

                              [–]familyinchords 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                              But there were 401 people on the ship?

                              [–]Foxehh 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              The captain survived I think.

                              [–]BOKEH_BALLS [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                              ITT: White Americans who have no idea what it's like to live in China (and probably what it's like to leave the country), disparaging the Chinese government.

                              [–]pogiface -3ポイント-2ポイント  (7子コメント)

                              "this is the captain everyone go to your rooms its cool no problems"

                              While the captain escapes and everyone drowns. I swear if i take a boat and the captain tells me to do something, I'm doing the direct fucking opposite, first life raft I'm going off the boat

                              [–]rdc30 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                              Have you actually read up on the situation or even this article?

                              You know the ship capsized in a couple minutes, at night, when everyone except the crew were asleep, right?

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