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Carnival Cruise Lines offer their customers a simulation of what life without Net Neutrality would be like (imgur.com)

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[–]jaysunh 2417ポイント2418ポイント  (40子コメント)

Everyone seems to be complaining about the fact that the cruise OP was on was offering these rates. That's not OP's point.

The fucking point is that without net neutrality (which is a hot-topic subject and could become this at some point) the internet at your home and on your cell phone could look like this.

[–]ThatBusGuy -190ポイント-189ポイント  (39子コメント)

You are completely wrong.

Net "neutrality" would turn the internet into what cable TV is right now, paying $180/month for 300 channels I will never consider watching just to get the 20 I actually want!

People that don't want/need high data services like Skype will save $20/day with Carnival's plans and it will reduce the burden on Carnival's service!
If your net "neutrality" goes into effect you will be forced to pay maximum cost, even if you only want/need the minimum service.

Net "neutrality" is a horrible concept that benefits nobody. Why should Joe Blow's Internet Store get the same connection speed as Amazon?
If Amazon wants to pay $$$ to get premium speed and connection quality, that is Free Market.
Forcing Amazon to share the same connection speed/quality as Joe Blow's Internet Store is called "communism". Last I checked people didn't like communism, yet they fully support it with net "neutrality"!

An analogy would be car insurance "neutrality"; forcing everyone to pay for full coverage of their vehicle even if they only need minimum coverage.
Its already happened with healthcare. Before everyone was forced to buy health insurance, rates were fairly cheap. Now costs have risen significantly without any change in service quality because insurance companies have guaranteed customers.

[–]you_wizard 69ポイント70ポイント  (8子コメント)

... This comment is satirical, right?

[–]bytemage 44ポイント45ポイント  (6子コメント)

I think ThatBusGuy has no idea about technology and is a total tool. He sounds like he realy belives what he's writing, or maybe he's just getting paid to do it ...

[–]Iamnotacreativeone 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think so. but I could be wrong. He is that bus guy

[–]bytemage 32ポイント33ポイント  (3子コメント)

You're a fucking idiot. This has been explaind so often and you still don't get it ...

[–]Anatolios 15ポイント16ポイント  (4子コメント)

You seem to misunderstand how the Internet works. Using a simple tool called "traceroute", I mapped out the path traffic takes from several large websites:

  • Me <-> My ISP <-> cloudflare <-> reddit.com

Cloudflare has an arrangement with my ISP to carry traffic, as do I. Should reddit have to pay my ISP beyond paying Cloudflare? Should I have to pay both my ISP, and cloudflare in order to reach NBC?

  • Me <-> My ISP <-> zayo.com <-> above.net <-> Akamai <-> nbc.com

Zayo has an arrangement with my ISP to carry traffic, as do I. Should NBC have to pay my ISP, pay Zayo, and pay Above.net beyond paying Akamai? Should I have to pay my ISP, zayo.com, above.net and Akami in order to reach NBC?

  • Me <-> My ISP <-> Google.com

Google has an arrangement with my ISP to carry traffic, as do I.

  • Me <-> My ISP <-> Telia.net <-> BBC.com

Telia has an arrangement with my ISP to carry traffic, as do I. Should the BBC have to pay my ISP beyond paying Telia? Should I have to pay both my ISP and Telia in order to reach the BBC?

[–]ThatOneNuge 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Of course not. But what if your ISP wants to offer an agreement wherein your price is much lower but certain sites can pay for better terms? Why can't we have both of these competing, and let individuals decide which they want?

[–]archpope 12ポイント13ポイント  (4子コメント)

A better analogy would be electricity. Imagine if Edison (or whoever provides your power) charged you different rates depending on what you used the power for? So maybe powering lights and phone chargers are only 5¢/KWh, but to power your TV (Even if it uses less power than your lights) costs 10¢/KWh. Although they've partnered with GE, so if you have a GE fridge, you pay less to run it than your neighbor down the street with a Frigidaire. INB4: Yes, there's already a tiered structure in most electric bills, but it's based solely on quantity of usage, not the types of devices the power is used for.

But, your argument deals with businesses, not consumers. Forcing GE to use the same electricity as Joe Blow's appliances is "communism," right?

[–]athdemo 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Unlike most other comments here I'd like to have an actual discussion with you because I don't think your perspective is invalid.

I'm not sure why you think that net neutrality would transform the internet into this cable TV metaphor. You seem to claim in other comments that you believe there is no throttling or anything happening right now and that net neutrality isn't accomplishing anything ("We don't already have that? When was the last time you were denied/throttles access by your ISP to a mom 'n pop internet store while browsing Amazon in another tab? Or craigslist throttled by your ISP in favor of eBay?") and yet you think the price will be driven up? How so if net neutrality does not accomplish anything? It's not like I currently have the "a la carte" choice.

And a lot of your defenses of how the market will adapt to misuse by ISPs is just not applicable to the vast majority of Americans. You claim unpopular moves by ISPs will result in people flocking to other ISPs with different policies, and yet many Americans, like myself, get to choose between their large cable ISP and maybe going back to dial up. The flexibility of the market isn't there. One could argue that the FCC should go for last-mile unbundling to counter this, and I would agree, but the claims you make in the current situation don't make much sense to me.

And you're right about the ability to pay for prioritization being free market, I suppose, but there's no reasonable way for most start-ups to compete with large companies with large budgets. All it takes is one bad experience with a new site being slow or unresponsive due to being throttled and now the user has a bad impression and never returns. This can have a very real effect.

You also say that no companies are actually being affected by throttling right now, and while that's technically true, the best example I've seen that shows the spirit of this intent is the battle between Verizon and Netflix. As far as I can tell Verizon never specifically throttled Netflix, but instead they chose not to upgrade edge network equipment capacity (at relatively low costs for physical hardware, like 10gb cards) and let it remain backed up. When Verizon owns and operates competing VOD businesses it is clear that they have an incentive to not upgrade this equipment or to accept Netflix's OpenConnect equipment into their network.

[–]linkandluke 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You might want to look up this topic again. This is not what Net neutrality is.

[–]BobNoel 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Whoah - Net Neutrality is literally Communism? I get what you're saying but you're not factoring in corruption, greed and abuse by people with unlimited power and resources. Kind of like, you know, what happens under communism...

[–]Yog_Kothag 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

There has GOT to be an astro-turf equivalent of Poe's Law to account for this shitty shitty comment.

[–]langer_cdn [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

masterful troll. The only way it falls down is that no one, no way could really be this dumb. Bravo

[–]Fucktoyproblems 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

Been a while since I've been disgusted by a comment. You disgusting fuck Reddit wouldn't exists if not for net neutrality. Do do us a favour and don't come back.

[–]ThatOneNuge -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

And the existence of 800 numbers has clearly destroyed all businesses which don't use one.

Inb4 not the same thing: it's literally exactly the same thing. Companies pay the phone companies so that people can call their numbers for free. Net non-neutrality would involve companies paying the ISP companies so that people can access their websites for free.

[–]yakbastard 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm pretty sure the Internet has and always was free market.

[–]asdghjker 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

yeah, like that fucking fire department. Can you believe that they turned up promptly when my house was on fire and put it out. how DARE they.

[–]burrito_batman -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

And its stupid people like you that end up fucking the world up for everyone else. you sound just like politicians, people who think they know what they are talking about, but actually have no fucking clue