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TIL a Queen's University Professor was "'banned’" from his own class and pushed to an early retirement when he used racial slurs while "he was quoting from books and articles on racism," after complaints were lodged by a TA in Gender Studies and from other students. (nationalpost.com)

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[–]MagicCoat 26ポイント27ポイント  (12子コメント)

My secondary school GCSE English class had the n-word on the wall because we were studying Of Mice and Men but everyone was mature enough to not bat an eyelid. In my class anyway.

EDIT for more goodness: Bare in mind this is a class full of 16/15 year-olds, 3 years ago, able to stay calm with that word on a piece of paper on the wall, because they knew the context behind it was important to their studies. We also had no qualms with saying the word while reading (though we usually referred to it as "the n-word" when speaking about its use, except in essays). The contrast between Year 11s and university students actually astounds me.

[–]over-my-head[S] 16ポイント17ポイント  (11子コメント)

This is as it should be.

Refusing to acknowledge the existence of racist language and banning its usage in academic contexts leads to burying the past which serves no one.

In the proper historical context describing the mistreatment of blacks by white slave-owners in the U.S., what better typifies the hatred and disregard the slave-owners had for their slaves:

"N-Word"

or

"Nigger"?

Which word provides a better example of how blacks were viewed with prejudice, as property, and as an "other" by racist whites?

"N-Slur"

or

"Nigger"?

EDIT: It's interesting to note how you, /u/MagicCoat still censored yourself, even when describing the use of a slur in the proper historical context.

I bet it was simply automatic for you. That's exactly how language and thought policing works (through the development of self-censorship).

EDIT 2: Here is a very interesting video by Slavoj Žižek on the insidious nature of Politically Correct language, and how it is actually a more dangerous form of coercion than the outward application of force from a totalitarian oppressor in terms of controlling thought.

He argues that PC language and censorship is more insidious and dangerous than oppressive commands from above regarding acceptable language/thought, which would be backed by the threat of force, because it is easier to rebel against such an enemy, since they are so clearly identifiable as a dangerous oppressor.

Meanwhile, the imposition of politically correct language and the banning of certain words teaches the individual to censor themselves, and their feelings, to fall in line with those which are prescribed by a given society or movement.

And therefore, this is much more effective in controlling thought, and is much more difficult to rebel against.

Interestingly enough, this interpretation is fully in line with the views of other critical thinkers/post-structuralists such as Foucaut, who is mandatory reading in gender studies courses (see "The History of Sexuality), and also follows the same line of argument as Noam Chomsky's work in "Manufacturing Consent" and "Necessary Illusions" regarding how the media operates to manage popular thought on political issues.

And these guys are absolutely massively leftist (as am I).

But I think there is something fundamentally wrong with this new form of extreme-leftist based PC censorship.

[–]thetasigma1355 16ポイント17ポイント  (5子コメント)

But I think there is something fundamentally wrong with this new form of extreme-leftist based PC censorship.

There is. And it drives many liberals, like myself, bat-shit crazy. I'm liberal because I believe that the economics and politics make sense. Not because I think we should create a society that isn't allowed to offend any body or a society that should give two-flying fucks about someone's "triggers".

[–]over-my-head[S] 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

I almost wish there was a way we could reclaim the terms "liberal" and "progressive" in order to distinguish ourselves from these PC, SJW-type censorious radicals.

I am NOT going to call myself a "moderate" or "moderate liberal" or "moderate leftist" or something like that.

I am definitely leftist in the vast majority of my opinions.

But this censorship, tone control, and language/thought policing is NOT something I will support.

[–]nfreakoss 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

Shit I consider myself a fucking socialist and I can't wait until this entire tumblr social justice fad dies out.

[–]MrCaul [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm left wing. And I live in Scandinavia. That pretty much means I'm a progressive type of communist. I too am so, so tired of the idiotic SJW PC bullshit.

It feels like they've highjacked what it means to be liberal.

[–]thetasigma1355 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I couldn't agree more. I view the whole "SJW-type radical" as the equal and opposite to the Tea Party. The only thing the two movements have in common is that they are both uneducated extremists.

[–]rottenseed [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I think you put too much into what your brand is called. Just hold the beliefs you have and not the ones you don't. Who cares what you call yourself.

[–]EasymodeX [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

EDIT: It's interesting to note how you, /u/MagicCoat still censored yourself, even when describing the use of a slur in the proper historical context.

I think that censoring it when simply referring to the word is fine. I think you could claim "thought policing" if the word were censored in its proper historical context.

For a reference to it, there's no reason not to censor. In this case you're taking your pulpit too far.

[–]MagicCoat [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah I only did that there because I didn't feel it was necessary to say it.

[–]over-my-head[S] [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

/u/MagicCoat censored the word "nigger" in a post specifically referring to the actual fully-spelt-out word being posted in his English classroom while his class was studying a book from 1937 in which that particular racial slur would have been used, as an example of how his classmates were mature enough to handle exposure to that particular word, given an understanding of the historical context of the novel.

I'm not reaching here. The actual slur itself is directly relevant. Its censorship - even when used in a historical context - is largely the point of his entire comment, and of this entire thread.

[–]MagicCoat [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You do have a great point there. I suppose it was just a subconcious action.

[–]EasymodeX [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

/u/MagicCoat censored the word "nigger" in a post specifically referring to the

Yes, that's the point. There's no particular need to spell it out when referring to it. It should be spelled out when demonstrating its actual use (e.g. the word should be spelled out when it is used). When it is referred to I feel it's entirely at the discretion of the user and you're reaching too far when claiming it as an example of thought policing.

[–]Mythiees 191ポイント192ポイント  (83子コメント)

Universities are turning into giant pussy factories (pun most definitely intended) where nobody's little feelings can get hurt anymore.

I don't understand why these people sign up for university if they haven't got the mental fortitude to hear a bad word anymore.

[–]over-my-head[S] 96ポイント97ポイント  (18子コメント)

The most absurd part was that he was teaching a course about Imperialism and Neo-Colonialism.

And people got upset when he made reference to racist language WHILE QUOTING FROM ORIGINAL SOURCES.

Relevant quote from article:

It was a week before the final essays were due in his second-year history course on imperialism and neo-colonialism after the Second World War when Mr. Mason found himself “banned” from the class he had been teaching all term — a class in which he was accused of making racist and sexist statements.

How dare he describe racist language in a course about imperialism and neo-colonialism???????

facepalm.jpg

[–]Mythiees 66ポイント67ポイント  (13子コメント)

This is the kind of willful ignorance I have no patience for.

When quoting sources from that time, about that topic, that kind of language is going to be used. That's the whole fucking point of teaching the course!

There was some backlash against a reprint of Mark Twain's Huckleberry Finn because he uses the word 'nigger' a lot in it. They wanted the word removed from the text. Which is precisely what you don't want to do. Specifically because it is so offensive.

Sanitizing history is just about the worst fucking idea ever :-(. To learn why that is, that's what you go to fucking school for!

Jesus christ!

[–]spunker88 11ポイント12ポイント  (5子コメント)

This, there's good things that happened in history but there's also a ton of terrible things like the holocaust, slavery, racism, etc. Everybody should learn about this stuff so we don't repeat it. Censoring history or historical works like Mark Twain is a dangerous idea.

[–]clever_cuttlefish 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

This is exactly how I felt in high school, when all the copies of Huck Finn we got from the book depository had 'nigger' blacked out with sharpie.

[–]as1126 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Book must've been 10 pages long after that.

[–]over-my-head[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

[deleted]

[–]iareslice [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Racism isn't history :[

[–]ekjohnson9 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yes it is? How do we teach people the severity of the mistakes humans made in the past if we don't fully acknowledge them?

[–]OldDefault 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly. How can we ever hope to learn historical context when it's filtered for a modern ear?

[–]over-my-head[S] 8ポイント9ポイント  (5子コメント)

Jesus christ!

Please don't take the Lord's name in vain!!!

You've just triggered stigmata in me.

From now on I'd prefer if you use the name YHWH, or TETRAGRAMMATON when referring to our Lord and Saviour, and/or his Father (who art one in the same).

[–]MonsterBlash [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It was a week before the final essays were due

If I can't pass this class, no one will.

[–]Enrei 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

a class in which he was accused of making racist and sexist statements.

Bear with me here, but what if he made additional racist and sexist remarks that weren't relevant to the course?

Such as: "he admits to saying the teaching assistants (all women) should wash his car if he can’t find enough work for them to do, and that they should become “masters and mistresses” of the materials taught in his class."

The article gives two examples. That's not enough evidence seriously condemn anyone.

[–]over-my-head[S] 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

"he admits to saying the teaching assistants (all women) should wash his car if he can’t find enough work for them to do..."

A dumb joke, that is not in and of itself sexist, as it could have applied to any male TAs that he might have had (though he wasn't assigned any).

Would it be inappropriate and sexist if he asked his female TAs to bring him coffee when there was a lull in marking?

that they should become “masters and mistresses” of the materials taught in his class."

Another stupid, corny joke that is a play on words, essentially. You would have to be actively looking for some serious oppression points if you were to read some for of extreme sexism ("i.e. he's calling us his mistresses/concubines/whores!!111") from this.

Even IF we bend over backwards in an attempt to acknowledge the "pain" caused by these "sexist and racist remarks," we still must draw certain conclusions.

#1: The claims of racism must ABSOLUTELY be dismissed, as the prof. was giving examples of racist language directly from relevant source material in a course on Imperialism and Neo-Colonialism, which is EXPLICITLY LINKED to discusion of racism. Therefore, the claims that the professor made racist statements are ludicrous.

#2 This leaves the "car wash" comment and the "mistress" comment, which are so tame they hardly merit any discussion.

The idea that, having ruled out the racist statements, these "sexist" statements justify forcing a professor into retirement are simply insane.

The car wash comment could be replaced by any other menial task for the TAs to complete - and could just as easily be applied to male TAs.

Did the professor suggest that his "sexy female TAs wash his car in their skimpy bikinis?" NO: that would be sexist.

The only possible conclusion for this statement is that the only reason it was deemed sexist is that it was heard by TAs that happened to be female who decided to read sexism into the comment.

If 2 male TAs and 2 female TAs heard the exact same comment, would it have been interpreted as sexist? NO.

Do some words turn into different words when heard by a group of female TAs? NO.

The statement was neutral.

#3: Finally, the "mistresses" comment.

At the most, this is anachronistic and in slightly poor taste.

Comments #1 (racism) and #2 (car wash) have now been ruled out.

Does using the word "mistress" justify banning or firing or pushing someone into retirement?

What do you think?

[–]Enrei [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It doesn't matter what I think, it doesn't matter what you think, it matters what the people on either side of the accusation are claiming and are able to defend.

The article does not provide enough information or context to support any condemnation or vindication of either group

Mr. Mason never disputed what was said, but the complaint didn’t divulge the context, he said.

The words “f—ing rag head,” “towel head,” “japs” and “little yellow sons of bitches,” did indeed cross his lips, he said, but he was quoting from books and articles on racism in that era.

And he admits to saying the teaching assistants (all women) should wash his car if he can’t find enough work for them to do, and that they should become “masters and mistresses” of the materials taught in his class.

and

Mr. Mason found himself “banned” from the class he had been teaching all term — a class in which he was accused of making racist and sexist statements.

Are the only pieces of information we have on his case in this article. The accusers said he did it, he says it was out of context. We are not given any further evidence. Again: I do not feel like the evidence presented in the article is near enough to condemn or vindicate either group; for example: we have no idea what the specific accusation was or how the accusation was defended. The accused professor claims that he was simply quoting things, and beyond him saying he was quoting things we are given no evidence, because "he did not divulge the context."

More things could have been said, and we have no idea what the accusers even said beyond they "accused [him] of making racist and sexist statements." I'm not on either side here, I'm saying the article needs more information.

[–]Impune 15ポイント16ポイント  (5子コメント)

Edward Schlosser just wrote an article about this for Vox titled "I'm a liberal professor, and my liberal students terrify me" that's worth a read. Here's a short excerpt:

The student-teacher dynamic has been reenvisioned along a line that's simultaneously consumerist and hyper-protective, giving each and every student the ability to claim Grievous Harm in nearly any circumstance, after any affront, and a teacher's formal ability to respond to these claims is limited at best.

[–]Mythiees 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow... they don't need $500 dollar text books, they need a stack of Pampers and a pacifier.

Is this fucking college or what? Grievous Harm? From listening to a lecture? What are these people made of, warm lettuce?

[–]TouchDownBurrito [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

It's even happening at the nation's top law schools:

"Individual students often ask teachers not to include the law of rape on exams for fear that the material would cause them to perform less well," she writes. "One teacher I know was recently asked by a student not to use the word 'violate' in class—as in 'Does this conduct violate the law?'—because the word was triggering."

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/12/at-law-school-is-insensitivity-grounds-for-an-objection/383882/

http://i.imgur.com/YbTd974.gif

[–]over-my-head[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Great article.

[–]DepressionQuest 25ポイント26ポイント  (48子コメント)

Too many special snowflakes. My highschool is implementing a bathroom for transgendered people because the three at our school are 'genderfluid' and don't identify as either male or female.

[–]Mythiees 12ポイント13ポイント  (7子コメント)

That made my eyeballs sweat...

You can be genderfluid today. That's new.

[–]over-my-head[S] 26ポイント27ポイント  (6子コメント)

I identify as gendersolid, statelord!!!

[–]WrecksMundi 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm a non-gendered Spongekin that reproduces by budding. STOP OPPRESSING ME WITH YOUR GENDER SHITLORD. /tumblr

[–]g0ing_postal 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm gender gaseous

[–]Mythiees -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Gender solid... there is no hope for us anymore.

[–]over-my-head[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (11子コメント)

To break the circlejerk temporarily, I don't actually disagree with the creation of alternate or unisex bathrooms if it makes things easier for people.

THOUGH it may simply result in further segregation and ostracization of those individuals, as it even further separates them from the rest of the student population, and marks them out as an "other," since the trans* or genderfluid individuals would likely be the only ones to use the new "special" bathrooms.

[–]coachbradb 9ポイント10ポイント  (9子コメント)

I contend there is no such thing as a unisex bathroom. What you are calling a unisex bathroom is in fact just a bathroom. For as long as we have been building bathrooms we have had "unisex" bathrooms. Any bathroom that is not designated to a sex is by default a "unisex" bathroom. The bathrooms in my house, both of them, are used by both sexes and my cat. Thus a bathroom.

:)

[–]clever_cuttlefish 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Please show me how to teach this to my cat.

[–]coachbradb 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Put their litter in a bucket that fits into the toilet. Leave it in there for a few months and only take it out when you are using the toilet. With in 3 months your cat will use the toilet.

[–]over-my-head[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

Except in Western society quite nearly every public bathroom IS assigned to a sex (male or female), unless (as in the case of certain gas station washrooms, for example) it is marked as being unisex (i.e. for males and females both).

[–]druedan 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

But in many cases, alongside the male and female bathrooms, there is a unisex restroom as well. They're meant for the handicapped but there's nothing stopping other people from using them. I don't see why you'd need a whole other bathroom for genderfluid/etc. people if you've got that.

[–]coachbradb 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Except in Western society quite nearly every public bathroom IS assigned to a sex (male or female)

This is my point. Any bathroom not assigned a sex is in fact a unisex bathroom. No need to label it unisex.

it is marked as being unisex (i.e. for males and females both).

Again this is my point. No need to label any bathroom anywhere unisex. If it is not for men or women than it is just a bathroom for everyone's use. No such thing as a unisex bathroom.

bath·room ˈbaTHˌro͞om,ˈbaTHˌro͝om/Submit noun a room containing a toilet and sink and typically also a bathtub or shower. NORTH AMERICAN a public lavatory; a restroom.

When people label them unisex they are making a political statement instead of just pointing out where the bathroom is.

If I am not correct please explain to me the different between a bathroom and a unisex bathroom.

[–]over-my-head[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

When was the last time you were in a school setting?

Bathrooms at high schools and universities invariably tend to be distinguished between Male and Female sex.

This is my point. Any bathroom not assigned a sex is in fact a unisex bathroom. No need to label it unisex.

Where do you find these bathrooms in schools, that are not assigned a sex? Are they just doors without labels? How would you find them?

I don't know what schools you've attended, but I've never encountered bathrooms in public academic settings that are simply "not assigned a sex."

There are either Male bathrooms or Female bathrooms. Or sometimes some unisex ones labeled male/female bathrooms, which may be labeled as for disabled people as well.

Or do you live in some mysterious realm where bathrooms in North American schools are primarily labeled as "[BLANK]" or simply "WASHROOM"?

Or where the schools have bathrooms labeled for Male and Female, but then have some others just marked as "washroom," or even left completely unlabeled?

[–]coachbradb 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

When was the last time you were in a school setting? Bathrooms at high schools and universities invariably tend to be distinguished between Male and Female sex.

I am a teacher. I am in a school setting daily. Please show me where I have claimed that schools do not have male and female bathrooms.

Where do you find these bathrooms in schools, that are not assigned a sex? Are they just doors without labels? How would you find them?

There are many of these in the school. The nurses office has one bathroom for use by all. So does the main office and they are labeled "bathroom" You do not have to label a bathroom unisex. It is only done to cater to the PC crowed. Any bathroom that is only labeled "bathroom" would do. There is no such thing as a specific bathroom for unisex people as UNISEX is not a gander.

I don't know what schools you've attended, but I've never encountered bathrooms in public academic settings that are simply "not assigned a sex."

You have not looked. Almost every school in the country has them. Especially in older buildings.

There are either Male bathrooms or Female bathrooms.

Yes and if you are going to specify that a bathroom is only for one sex than you need to label them this way. Any bathroom that can be used by every single individual needs no label past "bathroom"

Or do you live in some mysterious realm where bathrooms in North American schools are primarily labeled as "[BLANK]" or simple "WASHROOM"?

You miss the entire point. The point is that NO BATHROOM on this planet needs to be labeled Unisex. All bathrooms that are not for a specific sex are in fact already unisex and no label is needed.

Or where the schools have bathrooms labeled for Male and Female, but then have others just marked as "washroom," or even left completely unlabeled?

Please go out into the world. Its a big wonderful place and you can learn a lot out there.

So I will come back to the basic question that you have no answered.

What is the difference between a unisex bathroom and just a bathroom? If you can point out a difference I will support using the word Unisex for a bathroom. If you can not than the use of unisex is for political purposes and is not needed to direct a person to a bathroom that they can use.

[–]over-my-head[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't even care about this issue enough to continue this debate with you.

I never even claimed to be some "vocal advocate" for trans*/unisex washrooms.

In my original post I quite literally said that "I don't actually disagree with the creation of alternate or unisex bathrooms if it makes things easier for people."

Yet I went on to acknowledge that this might not be the best solution for the problem, as it might cause further ostracization of the individual students.

Here's a permalink to the original post if you're lost: https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/38ne60/til_a_queens_university_professor_was_banned_from/crwdye5

I don't know why you are going on about this to such an extent. Particularly with me. I really don't care about the unisex/trans* bathroom thing that much, beyond the fact that I basically don't mind the idea if it ends up helping someone out.

If you want someone to argue with about this, I'm sure you can find lots of other people on Reddit who are just as invested in shitter-theory as you are.

[–]coachbradb -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

"I don't actually disagree with the creation of alternate or unisex bathrooms if it makes things easier for people."

This is the point. It is impossible to create unisex bathrooms. They already exist. We call them bathrooms.

I don't know why you are going on about this to such an extent. Particularly with me. I really don't care about the unisex/trans* bathroom thing that much, beyond the fact that I basically don't mind the idea if it ends up helping someone out.

Seems you do or just do not understand what a bathroom is.

If you want someone to argue with about this, I'm sure you can find lots of other people on Reddit who are just as invested in shitter-theory as you are.

Sorry I shit on your agenda. But as my mom always told me it takes two to argue. Originally I was just making a point that unisex bathrooms dont exist but as we went along your agenda and ignorance about public bathrooms became clear.

Have a nice day. I will end this argument now by putting you on ignore.

[–]Imapopulistnow [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Fuck me. Just fuck me

[–]Kidkrid 3ポイント4ポイント  (21子コメント)

This...makes me fear for the future. Soon, those fuckwads will be called adults. They need a bloody good slap. Genderfluid...really? If you're not male or female, wtf are you, a paperclip?

Hi there! It looks like you're being a special snowflake. Would you like help with selecting the optimal bleach to drink?

[–]ccfcc [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Holy shit a teenager who is unsure about their gender or sexuality. Better we get hugely outraged and call them fuckwads and say they need to be slapped. The reaction of the school is hamfisted by creating a third bathroom but man, who cares what gender people identify with? In Thailand they recognize a third gender and it's not a big deal. Even biologic gender can be different than XY and XX. I fail to see the huge issue other than on Tumblr. The irony here is that you get outraged about a complete non-issue in a thread about people being overly sensitive.

[–]Scheidecker1 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Found the Gender Studies major.

[–]ccfcc [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The guy who says he doesn't care about this stuff?

[–]over-my-head[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Most university students are already adults (18).

[–]a_random_hobo [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I don't see why we can't just live and let live, why do you hate people who identify as such so much? Things we accept as normal today were shunned and mocked in generations past. Do you really think it's such a stretch to not make people identify as a specific gender? Sure, the separate bathroom is too much. But I can see why the administrators did it- they could catch shit for whatever they did, but building a unisex bathroom will catch them the least shit. I just think that there's no need to dismiss every single person who is "gender fluid," or whatever, he because the concept seems foreign to you.

[–]aLibertine 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Are we really allowing 14 year olds to choose their gender, then following it up by building a special bathroom for them?

Come on man, this is South Park's "The Cissy". This is literally an episode of South park...

[–]DepressionQuest -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

I have no problem with transgendered people; I just really dislike when they think they deserve more privileges than 'cis' people.

[–]over-my-head[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Even though I don't agree fully with a lot of the trans* activism stuff, I highly doubt that trans* individuals will ever be in any position where they are more privileged in modern Western capitalist society than non-trans* people.

[–]aLibertine [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The fact of the matter is that the theory and fight for equalism has been completely left behind for this quasi war of ideologies run by the modern feminism and men's right movement. Both sides have one good point out of 10.000 said, but at the end of the day, they're 99% full of shit.

My only problem with the trans movement is non-trans people trying to tell me what is offensive to a trans-person, what I can and cannot say.

[–]OldDefault 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't see why all bathrooms aren't transgendered these days. My uni residence was like that and it was fine.

[–]Paulus81 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I think the prospect of having my own shitter would make me just say I was transginger.

[–]Sorrymsjacksonwoowoo 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

I have an advanced degree in participation and everything you just said offended me. You've been reported and just wait until you hear from my father about this!

[–]Mythiees 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm already shaking in anticipation.

[–]dasamps [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

You don't even want to know the state of some high schools. It all starts there. My girlfriend is a teacher, and the things she tells me are ridiculous. You can't fail a student as long as they turn something in. Literally. Anything. Some high schools are pretty much ITT Tech at this point. That said, it varies district to district and school to school. Personally, I think it's all the shitty parents that won't put in the work with their kids, so they bitch at teachers and at the school board not to make their kids feel dumb.

[–]Mythiees [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well, in school you can get away with that, and because the student is the customer now they get to call the shots.

And you'll see them smirk at the dumbass teacher who couldn't find 'a real job' so they have to be with impudent children all day and the kids still walk out with a diploma.

Whereby they totally forget that a diploma is just words on a piece of paper. When they then go out into the world and find that they really don't know anything and they are not equipped to deal with life's choices, guess what: it won't be their fault. That'll be the constant in their life: nothing will ever be their fault. They are never to blame. They'll just have to find a way to be happy and content living a life of mediocrity because they couldn't be bothered to pay attention when it mattered.

A lot of these kids are in for one hell of a rude awakening.

[–]malvoliosf [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

pussy factories (pun most definitely intended)

I don't get the pun. In addition to turning out fearful and weak-willed graduates, are they also manufacturing house-cats? Creating human vaginas? What is the other meaning?

[–]Jodah [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Had a professor who was forced to retire because she swore like a sailor. The vast (talking 99%) majority of her students were future police officers so she did it to get them over their "giggle reflex."

Can't be giggling when some crackhead is calling your mother a whore and telling you what you can shove and where. Still got forced to retire five years early.

[–]Mythiees [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I've worked in a place where the language was so foul you could wash it off of the wall. If these precious students would spend 3 months in that place they would be catatonic with shock.

There were women there, they held up under the onslaught. But: they were free to give as good as they got.

[–]iltl32 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Universities are majority female (student and faculty). Just sayin.

[–]Mythiees [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It shows!

And here I am loving women with all my heart and I'm asking myself: women, what are you doing?

[–]DepressionQuest 31ポイント32ポイント  (6子コメント)

This just shows even more of how big of a joke Gender Studies is.

[–]over-my-head[S] 18ポイント19ポイント  (4子コメント)

Just to point out, this was a history class, and the professor who was banned was a history professor, but the TA who did lodge the complaint that the professor was made aware of WAS from the faculty of Gender Studies.

Relevant quote from the article:

He [Prof. Mason] maintains that only one teaching assistant from the faculty of gender studies made the complaint, but the university and the Public Service Alliance of Canada, Local 901, which represents the TAs, say there were complaints from TAs and students.

[–]coachbradb 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

His statement still stands. The problem was the joke that is Gender Studies. Does not matter what course he was teaching or what discipline he was in. A GS person caused the insane problem.

[–]over-my-head[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I never contested that.

I simply pointed out the actual details of the situation more fully because /u/DepressionQuest quite literally made the first comment in the thread, and I wanted to ensure that other people would not be misled.

In my direct response to him, quoting the article, I referenced how the only person of whom Prof. Mason was aware had complained was a Gender Studies TA.

That should be clear.

I was simply providing further details to ensure that anyone else who joined the thread was aware this happened in a History classroom, and not a Gender Studies one.

[–]DepressionQuest 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thanks for the clarification. I was confused on how the assistant even became aware of the situation.

[–]over-my-head[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lots of people from one faculty might pick up electives in another field of study.

[–]modsrliars 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dat username.

[–]MayaMcHunt 22ポイント23ポイント  (7子コメント)

Ever met a student of Gender Studies? My girlfriend took classes in one. She never identified with them and decided it was a class full of people on the edge of hatred.

She's pro-equal. She didn't find that there. 😟

[–]WrecksMundi 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Ever met a student of Gender Studies? My girlfriend took classes in one.

Well, I'm pretty sure that having people crawl inside you for class isn't what xyr signed up for when xyr chose womyn's studies as xyr's major.

[–]MayaMcHunt 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

We're no together. Plus I hate her. But I don't hate her opinions.

[–]Imiod 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not her. Xyr. Fucking triggering shitlord.

[–]over-my-head[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Interestingly enough, they are not all bad.

Example, my most recent gf (now ex) has a Ph.D in Criminology, and while teaching courses and publishing articles in that field, also teaches Gender Studies courses.

And she is not like some of the more extreme SJW-type feminists I've encountered on Reddit and the internet in general. Though these progressive extremists do exist, online and IRL.

Below is a relevant comment I made elsewhere. It's exceedingly long, but I think it's worth a read:

I do still think it is crucial to at least attempt to differentiate between the types of feminists out there who are Stalinist in their tactics - actively seeking to censor and ban ANY discussion of anything which questions their strict interpretation of feminist ideology (often the kind you find on the internet, and some of the most vocal ones at schools), and from the types of feminists who are serious, yet rational and open to discussion.

However, those who are open to discussion are seemingly a minority now - or at least aren't as vocal.

It is 100% true that a large number of feminists do attempt to shut down critical debate, citing justifications like "oppression" and "hate speech" and "safe spaces" in order to stamp out any discussion of views they do not agree with.

Quite literally, the ONLY subreddit I've ever been banned from - and for which I was not given any explanation afterwards, was /r/Askfeminists.

I was visiting the sub frequently, and often making comments, questioning things like "enthusiastic consent," and the bizarre new feminists requirements to ask for verbal permission for every single escalation during a sexual encounter. (E.g. "may I kiss you? may I touch your hair? may I undo your shirt? may I take off your bra? could you touch my penis? may I lick your vulva?").

For an amazing example of how absolutely ridiculous and unsexy this would be, please watch this video from a Montreal University feminist group - which is actually 100% serious and not a joke (incredibly). https://www.youtube.com/v/bVHYvUpeqKI&feature=youtu.be&list=UU8h-zImKfDO1ssJ7ocOuFMw

At /r/Askfeminists I also would question the censorious nature of certain feminists in ways that I had experienced first hand at University. For example, a Men's Rights group at my school attempted to bring in a female English professor who was a former feminist, but who now critiqued the ideology because she disagreed with the notion that it equally supported men, and who was upset with feminist censoring of discussion.

A vocal group of feminists at the school actively attempted to ban her from speaking, on the pretense that since she was invited by a men's rights group, she MUST therefore be propagating hate speech against women. Even though they had not even heard her speak.

When this particular feminist group was unable to ban her from speaking through the normal channels, they actually then attempted to have the Men's Rights group at university deratified, attempting to dissolve the entire organization, so their guest speaker wouldn't be to speak at their event, as the group would no longer exist.

Luckily they failed in this attempt, and the discussion went on, though feminists heavily protested it. I attended it, and despite the frequent jeering and interruptions from the crowd, the Prof was able to deliver her speech.

Unfortunately, at another Ontario school (University of Ottawa), when the same Prof attempted to speak, a group of feminists were successful in literally drowning out her speech as soon as she started speaking (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOnuZsXRwTA&t=29m25s)

But even worse was the experience of Warren Farrell when he attempted to give a similar speech at the University of Ottawa. Feminist protestors literally blocked the doors to the event, and abusively harassed those who sought to attend. PLEASE watch this entire 4 minute video of the protests. It is absolutely disgusting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iARHCxAMAO0

Even still, there are feminists who are not this extreme in their totalitarian tactics. My ex-gf, for instance, actually has a Ph.D in Criminology, and teaches criminology and gender studies courses. I've talked to her about MANY of these issues, and she does not agree with these censorious tactics. She is brilliant and rational, and open to discussion. I've even attended feminist talks with her.

Her take on the situation is that these "Internet Feminists," and those that seek to ban speech at schools, are actually a highly vocal, yet more extremist group which does not necessarily represent all feminists. And that if I want to learn more about feminism, that I should talk to people like her, and read scholarly works on the subject - and not get my info from radical internet activists.

So I hold out hope that there are still a large number of feminists out there who are anti-totalitarian regarding discussion and free speech.

Though it is hard to maintain this open-minded view sometimes.

Permalink: https://www.reddit.com/r/undelete/comments/37yp5i/what_was_momentarily_the_highestvoted_article_on/crr23tk

[–]Imiod 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

If you feel anything other than profound contempt for feminism and "social justice" at this point, I invite you to take a look at places like /r/GamerGhazi and /r/ShitRedditSays

[–]DoxedMcBox [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The problem here isn't "social justice" itself. The ideas behind social justice are valid and should be encouraged. I identify as a feminist. Anyone who doesn't have their head up their ass should be able to grasp the fact that white people do have massive social privilege over people of color. Men do have social privilege over women. A lot of the points are valid.

The problem has to do with the online "SJWs". I used to be very active in SRS but SRSPrime became too toxic of a place for me to continue posting. Admittedly, it was a combination of shitty posts linked to in the subreddit, but also comments of the members there. I ended up stopping all posts in SRSPrime and strictly stayed in SRSDiscussion for a while. It's a result of marginalized individuals (rightfully) voicing their anger and then privileged allies attempting to voice their anger on behalf of, or in spite of, the actual individuals. See: Straight white men telling a black woman or a gay man how offensive something is if they're not offended. Bonus points are the cases where the person is then accused of not really being black, not really being gay, not really being a feminist, etc. The environment has become toxic to the point where marginalized individuals are denied their identity if their threshold for offense is not in line with the privileged white boy who says they should be offended.

I've seen deleted my main account and lurk. I occasionally create throwaways for posts like this. My reason has to do with an immense fear of being doxed by both "SJWs" who could view an innocent comment or misunderstanding as "problematic" and, instead of addressing me directly to understand the context or correct me, take to social media or my employer. I fear the likes of SRSSucks, TRP, and the "anti-SJW" crowd just as well.

I've been wanting to do a longer write up on this with specific examples but don't see how the post would survive. Anti-SJWs would use it as their "aha!! This guy can't stand SJWs and he was one!!". Large online social justice communities would dismiss a majority of the post as me not really holding "social justice" views and derailing rather than taking an inward look at the toxicity within the community. I could link to a few discussion topics where this has already happened but I'd rather not bring a brigade of shitty comments and downvotes that always happens with such links.

tl;dr Feminism and "social justice" are not the problem. It's online feminist and social justice echo chambers that are the problem.

[–]over-my-head[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I've lurked at /r/ShitRedditSays for a long time, bud.

SRSers are largely an example of the type of internet radical extremists that I referred to in my above post as being unreliable, and not necessarily representative of scholarly feminists in the field.

And they are likely the same breed of feminists that ran this professor out of his teaching job.

But like I said, I'm not going to disregard the entire ideology because of a vocal group of extremists.

Should I have "profound contempt" for all leftist politics, economic ideology, and social issues, because the Stalinist PC brigade that I am arguing against in this entire thread ALSO derives from the left?

[–]Arknell 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

As that australian stand-up comedian put it (paraphrased): "You have a right to be offended at whatever you want. You don't have the right to silence me because you were offended."

Porn, McDonalds, and boxing is offensive to feminists, vegetarians, and pacifists, that doesn't mean all three things should be outlawed.

[–]a_park_bench [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm not sure if you're thinking of someone else, bit Stephen Fry said something similar

http://theshake.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/offended.jpg

[–]Wookimonster [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Hey! I am a pacifist and I am not offended by boxing. I'd beat you up for your generalizations, but I'm a pacifist.

[–]malvoliosf [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I don't think McDonalds is necessarily offensive to vegetarians. There are lots of McDonalds in India, a country that is half populated with vegetarians and nobody complains.

Your point is well-taken, though.

[–]frekinghell [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Uhh I'm a vegetarian and neither McDs or KFC or any other chain 'offends' me, and nor should it. Its my choice and I don't force it onto you, and as long as people don't force meat upon me I'm pretty darn cool with people who eat it and like it......

[–]Hondoh [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I feel like the only justification for this is if he was like The Count, off sesame Street, & laughed like a weirdo every time a slur came up...

[–]metsman913 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

God these dumb pussies in college are going to eventually make it so easy to rise above them in the real world.

[–]orlanthrex 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

here is one article from the other day

http://www.vox.com/2015/6/3/8706323/college-professor-afraid

[–]shadowXiv [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The death of reason.

[–]intellectualarsenal [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

THIS is why no one takes the social sciences seriously

[–]nenyim [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

He maintains that only one teaching assistant from the faculty of gender studies made the complaint, but the university and the Public Service Alliance of Canada, Local 901, which represents the TAs, say there were complaints from TAs and students.

So we have multiple incidents (at least 2 given that I doubt the TAs complain about racism in a class they weren't and the "joke" was definitely part of a complaint) from multiple students and TAs which in my mind make some for of inquiry necessary. Once the inquiry is perfectly justified having someone in the class making sure that indeed the declaration were taken out of their context make sense.

“If I were to continue teaching I would feel that there was somebody up on the stage with me making shorthand notes — a phantom censor,” he said. After the complaint was filed, the university said he could only continue teaching if the department chair sat in on lectures from time to time. He wouldn’t comply. Classes were cancelled and Mr. Mason was “banned,” as he puts it. He was never formally let go or asked to leave — health problems eventually had him sidelined.

I know there are quotation marks on "banned" but it's still taking it pretty far when it seem, from his own declarations, that he simply refused to teach a class because he refused the said inquiry.

And he admits to saying the teaching assistants (all women) should wash his car if he can’t find enough work for them to do, and that they should become “masters and mistresses” of the materials taught in his class. The self-described product of a different era said he made an exasperated joke after being appointed assistants he felt didn’t know the course content.

Maybe the sexism wasn't taken out of it context after all. He implicitly acknowledge the sexism claims and put it on exasperation, which I believe can be a valid defense as we all say stupid things from time to time however there seem to be a pattern here.

Do you know what I believe? That the statement themselves were most likely perfectly justified in the context (racism in literature) of the class but that there is a lot more context around it that make them entirely unacceptable and that's why he refused to have anyone sitting in his classroom despite having multiple people uncomfortable with his teaching.

[–]MrCaul [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Gender Studies. What a surprise...

[–]greetingsfromcanada [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

How the fuck is gender studies even a thing?

[–]purpleclouds [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Of course it was a gender studies TA that issued a complaint.

[–]truthandjustice8762 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

pathetic...

[–]Succubic_Unicorn [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Mr. Mason never disputed what was said, but the complaint didn’t divulge the context, he said.

The words “f—ing rag head,” “towel head,” “japs” and “little yellow sons of bitches,” did indeed cross his lips, he said, but he was quoting from books and articles on racism in that era.

And he admits to saying the teaching assistants (all women) should wash his car if he can’t find enough work for them to do, and that they should become “masters and mistresses” of the materials taught in his class.

While it's possible that the complaints were flimsy, this guy could have also just been a dickhead, and this was the last straw for the department after a career full of complaints.

[–]jwoodall04 -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

He deserves to be terrified. He and his liberal buddies created the echo chamber that allowed this crap to grow.

[–]over-my-head[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

The professor in question was 74 at the time, "old-school," and had been a professor for 40+ years.

I highly doubt he was involved in this new wave of PC Stalinism.

[–]shillnumber1138 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

New wave pc stalinism has been growing and festering SINCE stalin, within the walls of higher ed, so yes it is likely that age group is partly responsible for permitting that.

[–]Washuchan732 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You can't even talk about racism now, even to discuss it in a NPOV fashion in the context of a history class...

[–]beardedgreg [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

There's a good way to quote something and a bad way. I mean if he quotes, "I love to have a nigger woman to clean up after me", but then looks around with a creepy ass grin I would get offended too. I wasn't there so I don't know, but he got let go so it probably wasn't the first time he did something like this.

[–]over-my-head[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Professor Mason was actually requested to specifically come out of retirement to teach this class.

And then he was run back out again because of the overly sensitive PC brigaders competing for the Oppression Olympics.

It wasn't as if he had built up a bad reputation for a "history of racist and sexist comments," but couldn't be pushed out because of his tenured position.

He was already out of the game.

And then they asked him to come back in. Then ran him out and left a black mark on his career.

Give me a few minutes and I'll find sources on this.

EDIT: Here you go:

“Some of it was almost humorously outrageous,” says the 74-year-old professor, who had been recalled from retirement to teach the course. He had, in fact, invented the course, and had taught it for years with great success. “So I thought, who better?” The complaint about the “mistresses” remark, he says, came from a female graduate student in gender studies who had been appointed his TA."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/politically-correct-a-mugging-at-queens-university/article4746450/

[–]MonsterBlash [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If I can't pass this class, nobody can get in this class.

Keep sabotaging universities dumb-asses, only makes my diploma worth more.
Why is it never purely technical fields universities which have these problems?
Maybe they can just ban non-technical fields instead, or keep them separate or something.
They are starting to be a problem for people who actually want to learn.
Just the next iteration into anti-intellectualism I suppose.

[–]sobieski84 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Liberals are destroying everything

[–]over-my-head[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Some liberals and some conservatives are destroying everything.

FTFY

[–]malvoliosf [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

There is not shortage of conservative jerks, but on college campus, and a lot of other institutions, leftists are in the ascendency when it comes to actually ruining things.

If I were at a company lunch and someone asked, "Pass the parsley" and I responded, "Nobody eats parsley!", however conservative my coworkers or boss, the worst I would get from them would be rolled eyes, for my vulgar and inappropriate remark.

The leftists, however, would report me to HR for my sexist and misogynistic "joke" and my job would be in jeopardy.

This is true all over the US and (AFAIK) Europe.

[–]razgrez [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You know. Social justice and all that.