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legaladvice

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A place to ask simple legal questions. Advice here is for informational purposes only and should not be considered final or official advice. See a local attorney for the best answer to your questions.
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[–]lord_humble 13 points14 points15 points  (39 children)
It really is true.
It may be, but like /u/pottersquash wrote, no one will believe it. It just sounds completely ridiculous that someone would think a pattern of trading $80 for $100 is an activity people think is legitimate, or in any way advantageous. Also, just because something worked in the past, doesn't mean it was legit - it might just mean nobody got caught or reported it. Where did you think these gift cards came from?
Edit: Meaning, if he sells them to you for 80%, then he's either getting them for somewhere between free and 50% of their face value (because they are stolen or fraudulent). So how is he getting gift card so cheaply he can afford to sell them to you for 80% of their face value?
[–]helppleasegcs[S] -2 points-1 points0 points  (38 children)
Meaning, if he sells them to you for 80%, then he's either getting them for somewhere between free and 50% of their face value (because they are stolen or fraudulent). So how is he getting gift card so cheaply he can afford to sell them to you for 80% of their face value?
Here's the conversation where I ask him how he gets them:
[4/17/2015 5:34:30 PM] Me: How much would you say your limit is anyway?
[4/17/2015 5:34:57 PM] the e-friend : I don’t really have a limit atm but would need a day or so to increase the volume if you requested it
[4/17/2015 5:35:49 PM] Me: Would you be able to share more details about how that is possible? O.o
[4/17/2015 5:36:11 PM] the e-friend: Bitcoins are pretty difficult to acquire for certain people
[4/17/2015 5:36:24 PM] the e-friend: I can get Bitcoins very easily however, because I have access to a bitcoin ATM near my place
[4/17/2015 5:36:58 PM] the e-friend: People buy amazon gift cards from a store for cash and send me the receipt, their government issued ID, and a photo of the back of the card in exchange for my bitcoins
[4/17/2015 5:37:21 PM] the e-friend: I, in turn, make a small return
[4/17/2015 5:38:52 PM] Me: That. is. awesome.
[4/17/2015 5:39:19 PM] the e-friend: I take every step to make sure the amazon gcs are legitimate
[4/17/2015 5:40:00 PM] Me: Very appreciated.
[–]lord_humble 11 points12 points13 points  (20 children)
People buy amazon gift cards from a store for cash and send me the receipt, their government issued ID, and a photo of the back of the card in exchange for my bitcoins
If you left soft cheese in the back window of your car during the summer it would stink less than this line.
[–]helppleasegcs[S] 1 point2 points3 points  (19 children)
Lol. OK... apparently I'm retarded? What is so suspicious about it that I failed to notice? Guess I just don't understand how bitcoins work.
[–]lord_humble 9 points10 points11 points  (17 children)
No I am not saying you are retarded. I am saying you are being scammed (you obviously were scammed).
Think about this logically. He says he has no limit. That's the first clue there's something wrong here. Because later he says that people who want bitcoins can't figure out any way to get bitcoins other than spending $100 cash for an Amazon gift card at Walgreens, then selling him the gift card for $60 (or whatever) in bitcoins - which, again, they apparently can't get any other way or at market value, so they lose $40 on each sale - and then he sells you the card for $85, so he can pocket $25 on the sale. (And you then buy things on Amazon and sell them on ebay cheap enough to cover the $15 you "make" off the card?)
I'm not saying I don't believe your end (even though it's not a great business model) but how could he have both unlimited bitcoins and unlimited access to people willing to lose money with a 24-hour turnaround? To further the ridiculousness, he says he has a bitcoin ATM, meaning he's putting his own cash in there to start the entire process? Not one step in this makes any sense.
[–]pottersquash 5 points6 points7 points  (3 children)
Didn't even think of that. If OP is making 20% on the giftcard, gift card seller has to be making atleast 20% on the bitcoins. So this plan means there are idiots buying bitcoins at 50% of their value? Come the fuck on.
[–]helppleasegcs[S] 2 points3 points4 points  (2 children)
If OP is making 20% on the giftcard, gift card seller has to be making atleast 20% on the bitcoins.
where are you getting this logic?
[–]pottersquash 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
Just figuring guy selling to you is going to make atleast the profit he is willing to give to you.
[–]helppleasegcs[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Okay, thank you.
[–]helppleasegcs[S] 1 point2 points3 points  (11 children)
By "no limit" I thought he was referring to the amount of people he'd open up trading with.
As for people struggling with getting bitcoins, I thought perhaps they lived in a different country and were unable to acquire them unless through him, but for whatever reason (maybe eagerness) I never looked into this.
then selling him the gift card for $60 (or whatever) in bitcoins
I never asked the rate he was doing things at. Again, should have gotten this information.
And you then buy things on Amazon and sell them on ebay cheap enough to cover the $15 you "make" off the card?
Not 'cheap' enough, more like 'expensive' enough. It generates a really small amount of money for each sale, so this was supposed to be a long-term thing. I wouldn't have dealt with him if I knew they were illegitimate.
So, this sucks. And apparently I can't realistically get my money back because this was so obvious to everyone but me, and clearly I'm just a liar.
[–]Rodrommel 4 points5 points6 points  (10 children)
Definitely stolen credit cards.
I don't know if you were ignorant to what was going on or if you're just feigning, but you seem to honestly be floored by the answers you're getting here.
Let me tell you something. 20% return on investment is a huge red flag. Get the idea out of your head. The best stock broker and option trader will beat the market by a couple points. So anything north of 10% return should be looked at with skepticism, and anything north of 15% should be looked at with extreme skepticism. That's the way it is.
It seems to me that you fell into an enticing trap that made you think money is easier to make than it actually is. If you're charged, a judge will consider these circumstances, but they might not be enough to get you off without an expensive lawyer. Cut your losses and get a job to make money instead
[–]helppleasegcs[S] 1 point2 points3 points  (9 children)
might not be enough to get you off
get me off of... what? Criminal charges?
[–]Rodrommel 1 point2 points3 points  (8 children)
Yes. Criminal charges
[–]helppleasegcs[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (5 children)
once again, I didn't involve myself with illegitimate cards knowingly or intentionally. even though people are saying it, I'm finding it hard to believe that I'm actually at risk of being blamed for this dude's actions, considering he lied to me about pretty much everything.
[–]helppleasegcs[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
also, if I do get criminally charged byproxy despite having no ill intentions, then what exactly are we talking about this encompassing? paying a fine? being in jail? I might take the risk depending on the severity of what could actually happen to me.
[–]GorgonZolla -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
Not one step in this makes any sense.
Well, I suspect some people are willing to pay a substantial premium for untraceable Bitcoin. I think this method is pretty much the only way in the US to get Bitcoin without supplying a bank-like entity with a copy of your ID. If you wanted to buy contraband on the "darknet" this trail would lead back to the guy doing the Bitcoin-for-giftcard trade and he's likely holding a copy of a fabricated government-issued ID.
Coinbase says Bitcoin are currently $243.18 and according to localbitcoins.com, an Amazon-gift-card-to-Bitcoin real-life meet-up trade in LA runs $316.07. That's a pretty substantial mark-up.
So that's one step that maybe makes some sense? I mean whole caboodle still feels super fishy.
[–]lehmakook 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Bitcoins are sort of digital cash, and extremely popular with scammers, online drug dealers and other shady businesses because they are anonymous and transactions cannot be reversed.
One of the most popular bitcoin scams is to find a way to convert stolen credit card numbers into bitcoin, after which the scammer can do whatever with them with little risk of being identified and no risk of the funds being cancelled like your cards were.
Amazon gift cards are one of the most popular schemes for this.
  • Scammer gets credit card numbers from somewhere,
  • Scammer says that they want bitcoin without giving out their identity to other companies, but is willing to pay a premium for it,
  • The mark thinks it's a good deal, because they are saving money on Amazon,
  • Scammer buys Amazon gift cards, trades them for bitcoin, and takes off,
  • The gift cards are cancelled, or the mark gets in trouble with the law because it looks like they ordered stuff from Amazon with stolen credit cards.
Now it looks like your "friend" was more clever than just buying stuff off Amazon for himself, by handing the useless gift cards over to you.
What is so suspicious about it that I failed to notice?
I mean, people do legally trade gift cards for a bit under the face value. But maybe one or two at a time, when it's a specific shop they have no use for. But $4000 (and promise of unlimited amounts of more) of cards for Amazon, where everyone can find something useful to buy? No shit it's a scam.
[–]pottersquash 5 points6 points7 points  (16 children)
Oh goody, so its money laundering for drugs. This is getting better.
[–]helppleasegcs[S] 1 point2 points3 points  (15 children)
money laundering for drugs? why, because bitcoins are just automatically associated with drug use, or...?
[–]pottersquash 6 points7 points8 points  (14 children)
No, people with access to Amazon gift cards, an online retailer which accepts pretty much every form of online payment, often have difficulties getting bitcoins, an online crytocurrency, and have to go through a 3rd party for a fee who requires them to hand over their person information. This is a sane logical thing.
[–]helppleasegcs[S] 1 point2 points3 points  (13 children)
So I don't have a chance of winning the case because the e-friend's story was too obviously fake to everyone except for me, and again this is my "idiot tax"? So your advice is to just swallow the lost funds and move on?
[–]pottersquash 5 points6 points7 points  (12 children)
No you have chance. You have a greater chance of it ending poorly for you though. Your call.
Edit: Also, what lost funds? You sold the items you bought. How are you harmed?
[–]helppleasegcs[S] 1 point2 points3 points  (11 children)
Alright, actual numbers for you. When my Amazon account was frozen, I had $4,118 in unused gift card balance deleted. Amazon customer support says they're not refunding stolen balance, of course.
So I technically lost whatever 85% of $4,118 is, which is ~$3,500.
The $3,500 lost far outweighs any profit I had made to that point.
I just think it's lame that I can't even sue this person without fear of being in bigger trouble, but apparently it's common sense and life lessons learned and yadda yadda yadda.
[–]pottersquash 4 points5 points6 points  (10 children)
I just think it's lame
But before:
[4/17/2015 5:38:52 PM] Me: That. is. awesome.
I believe they call that "Ying meets Yang."
[–]helppleasegcs[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (9 children)
Yeah, if he had the courtesy of saying they were illegitimate cards (lol) this would have never happened.
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