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(Spoilers All) The simple reason why Jon... (self.asoiaf)

B_H_DwellerFuck the Books が 投稿

is definitely not dead for good.

You don't have a 30-second face-off with the Night's King and then die 2 episodes later. These guys have to fight each other at some point.

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トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]the-velocirapper 376ポイント377ポイント  (164子コメント)

He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold.

People have speculated that the cold is a reference to the Others coming when Jon is stabbed. Maybe the Night's King is there and Jon becomes Snow Wight—after all, we just learned how wights are made, so wouldn't it make sense to show us that two episodes before it happens to Jon?

[–]synth22High five, I'll flay you alive! 328ポイント329ポイント  (20子コメント)

Jon Snow Wight. I bet George has had that in his pocket this entire time.

[–]zgroveProud Lord 89ポイント90ポイント  (1子コメント)

The entire series is a setup to a pun thread coming I the last book

[–]EmperorSexyA man is no one. 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

Snow Wight and the Seven Kingdoms

[–]JaredCP10Jon Sneaux 46ポイント47ポイント  (10子コメント)

I asked for my flair to be Snow Wight yesterday lol

[–]SnowWight 412ポイント413ポイント  (7子コメント)

Way ahead of you.

[–]jack9lemmon 146ポイント147ポイント  (0子コメント)

Redditor for two years

Well done.

[–]celticeejit 87ポイント88ポイント  (5子コメント)

Longest delivery of a punchline ever

[–]brotherjustincrowe*tips collar* M'hysa 73ポイント74ポイント  (0子コメント)

Along with "Tywin Lannister did not, in the end, shit gold."

[–]owlnsrWhat is Stannis will always Mannis 22ポイント23ポイント  (2子コメント)

Well, we are still waiting for the punchline in Rickon's shaggy dog tale.

[–]OlfactoriusRexLess-than-great-but-still-swell-Jon 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

And waiting for the whatever-the-fuck for "where do whores go?"

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      [–]brotherjustincrowe*tips collar* M'hysa 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I dig the current one. South Louisiana?

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        [–]SonZoo 25ポイント26ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Fucking lol

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          [–]ph3rString! Where the f--- is Willas? 70ポイント71ポイント  (5子コメント)

          Snow Wight

          Does this make Tyrion the Seven's Dwarf?

          [–]dazdazdeeThe Bastard of Nightsong. 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

          You should see the way he wants to pray with Septa Lemore.

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            [–]RJMaestro 42ポイント43ポイント  (4子コメント)

            I figured he didn't feel the fourth knife because he was already in Ghost.

            [–]seanburnsred 23ポイント24ポイント  (8子コメント)

            Is it possible that before he dies, he wargs into Ghost, then his dead body is reanimated by the Night's King, only for Jon to warg back into his now wight body?

            I personally think that Mel will have something to do with his resurrection, otherwise what was the point of all the emphasis put on her visions and their interactions. But if that was all just a red herring, perhaps my idea above would be another possible scenario.

            EDIT: OR... What if it's both? His is the song of ice and fire. Mel (Rhollor) and the Night King (The Great Other) both attempt to resurrect him and he becomes some embodiment of both, and the one to bring peace between the two opposing forces.

            [–]BeautifulManiaThe Pimp That Was Promised 16ポイント17ポイント  (2子コメント)

            I've definitely heard that theory here before.

            The dual resurrection is interesting, especially because ice is usually just about reanimating the body, whereas fire tries to pull the soul back from wherever it is.

            Basically: Jon dies, moves in with Ghost, Other magic reanimates his corpse, he corpses around, Mel does some shit, Jon gets kicked out of Ghost, goes back to his zombie, and is now the first sentient undead due to being resurrected by both forces.

            [–]Logeres 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

            Not the first, technically. Coldhands and (presumably undead) Brynden Rivers are sentient, and they both have a strong connection to animals. Which lends even more credence to that theory, IMO.

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              [–]Jamdeski 35ポイント36ポイント  (4子コメント)

              That Snow Wight joke is so perfect I can't believe this is the first time I'm hearing it.

              [–]the-velocirapper 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

              I wish I could say I were clever enough to have come up with it, but I'm not.

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                [–]vinuash 35ポイント36ポイント  (23子コメント)

                I was wondering if they'd do a Coldhands esque thing with him.

                [–]Squizot 99ポイント100ポイント  (7子コメント)

                Yeah, they just carry on as if he was never there. All chapters at the wall make no further mention of the former LC. GRRM does it again: upsets the fantasy trope of "narrative continuity."

                [–]t3h_shammy 55ポイント56ポイント  (3子コメント)

                You mean the trope of "proper storytelling"?

                [–]D-SpeakWe didn't start the fire. 40ポイント41ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Semantics.

                [–]Squizot 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Hmm... I think you may have overlooked the trope of "irony," or potentially, "getting the joke."

                [–]mrbibs350 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Former LC? Who are we talking about?

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                  [–]DealerCamel 46ポイント47ポイント  (13子コメント)

                  What if Snow Wight goes back in time... and Coldhands is actually Jon Fucking Snow.

                  [–]paulstefan 30ポイント31ポイント  (3子コメント)

                  And the song of ice and fire is just about his hands- his burnt his hand and after that he became caldhands.

                  [–]DarthnixaWhen Life Gives You Lemons. 33ポイント34ポイント  (2子コメント)

                  Hands of cold

                  are always cold

                  [–]Hobbes42 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  But an others hands are colder.

                  [–]Tescobum44After night, comes the Dayne 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Once I was young

                  but now I'm old.

                  In the past I will be older.

                  [–]strategolegendsBalerion, Vhagar, Meraxes, Trogdor 27ポイント28ポイント  (4子コメント)

                  It's like how Tyrion is really the son of Daenerys.

                  [–]DarthnixaWhen Life Gives You Lemons. 32ポイント33ポイント  (3子コメント)

                  That's why he's so little - he's only 5 years old.

                  [–]ph3rString! Where the f--- is Willas? 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

                  Philippe is five.

                  [–]PrinceOfCheese 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  It could happen...

                  [–]cats4life 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  Bran wargs Jon's body, leaving it for Jon to come back, and to repay this, he goes back in time to lead Bran to the cave

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                      [–]Karmacalculator 11ポイント12ポイント  (64子コメント)

                      Yeah but he's at the wall and they would burn his body..

                      [–]MrLiamDI can't really remember 42ポイント43ポイント  (52子コメント)

                      Burn the body only for him to come out of the fire alive possibly, imagine him coming out of the fire alive but as a Coldhands-esque wight.

                      [–]YellowUmbrellaFella 60ポイント61ポイント  (14子コメント)

                      Reborn amidst salt and smoke, per say.

                      [–]Ser-Pounce- 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

                      The prince that was promised... To the white walkers.

                      [–]ieoopsadiufpiausdf 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      What if they are the not bad guys. What if humans are not the good guys either?

                      [–]MrLiamDI can't really remember 6ポイント7ポイント  (8子コメント)

                      I thought of this as a possibility a while back and could give decent answers for all of the signs of AA reborn if Jon is revived in this way, the only one that wouldn't be there in the show is Ser Patrek's heraldry but I imagine the show won't be bothered about the details of the prophecy.

                      [–]ManderTea 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

                      Salt = tears of his fellow watchmen?

                      [–]cats4life 62ポイント63ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      No, it is the sheer amount of salt Olly radiates when he looks at Jon

                      [–]MrLiamDI can't really remember 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      Bowen cried salty tears, and if there was a fire at the wall ice would melt, and the wall would cry salty tears.

                      [–]delinear 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      The Wall's "tears" wouldn't be salty, as rain/snow isn't salty. Someone theorised that the prophesy was foreseen by a character who'd never seen snow, so the "smoke and salt" they thought they saw might actually be freezing fog and snow.

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                          [–]mysexywunwuncostume 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          Lord Ham-mander.

                          [–]fukitol-Fancy a bout of Cyvasse? 21ポイント22ポイント  (34子コメント)

                          Burn the body only for him to come out of the fire alive possibly

                          It's happened with one Targaryan

                          [–]ZapActions-dowerBearfucker! Do you need assistance? 15ポイント16ポイント  (33子コメント)

                          And a lot more have died in fires.

                          [–]oneawesomeguy 19ポイント20ポイント  (32子コメント)

                          RIP Egg

                          [–]XRay9Another Sword of the Morning shall arise 14ポイント15ポイント  (7子コメント)

                          And Aerion Doucheflame

                          [–]Gravyd3ath 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

                          He didn't burn he poisoned himself drinking wildfire and died screaming

                          [–]XRay9Another Sword of the Morning shall arise 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

                          I assumed he burned when he drank it, not sure about it now.

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                              [–]mypasswordisPA55WORDHype level building 11ポイント12ポイント  (7子コメント)

                              Not if it happens immediately. There would be a lot of chaos after assassinating the Lord Commander.

                              [–]upstage123They see me R'hllorn'.. They hatin'. 10ポイント11ポイント  (6子コメント)

                              Yea and most of the few remaining Night's Watch at Castle Black are most likely going to get killed in the chaos, either by Tormund's men, Queen's men, or Wun Wun.

                              [–]Septa_Fagina 17ポイント18ポイント  (3子コメント)

                              You mean some may sustain wound wounds from Wun Wun?

                              [–]upstage123They see me R'hllorn'.. They hatin'. 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              Yea, maybe Wun or two arms ripped off.

                              [–]KatDenVi7 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              Boo Boos from Wun Wun?

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                                    [–]OrangeJaysSG 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    Really? Or maybe it's because he's losing blood...

                                    [–]TheAbyssGazesAlsoFire and Blood 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                    People have speculated that the cold is a reference to the Others coming when Jon is stabbed

                                    GRRM has prior game for describing death as cold (the bite of the knife that killed Caitlin was red and cold, for example). I think it's a bit of a stretch to see Others in that description of Jon's death...

                                    [–]yrrpTo Pimp a Butterwell 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    And Renly says "cold" after the shadow stabs him.

                                    [–]DeMeneer 19ポイント20ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                    I just realized something: We need Jon to become a Wight to learn the intentions of the white walkers. It isn't known which language they speak, so from a story perspective we need to gain insight into their culture via a pov character that can understand them, aka Jon Snow Wight..

                                    Or the WW just kill everyone in the end and were none the wiser.

                                    [–]footnotefour 16ポイント17ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                    Nah, Bran is accessing the WeirNet which is basically a giant Exposition Machine that will allow explanations of all sorts of history that happened within the view of the weirwoods.

                                    [–]person_in_place 14ポイント15ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                    i speculate that maybe targ blood interferes with the others' necro magics so he's not a mindless wight

                                    [–]woopigchewie 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    I agree, the dragon's blood will keep him from becoming a wight.

                                    [–]wawhite15TheCombatWombat 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                    Interesting thought. This could be an answer to the Coldhands mystery too. He could have been a member of the NW, who died fighting WW, and could not be turned in to a wight b/c he had Targ blood. Do we know of any other members of the NW that had targ blood?

                                    [–]KasrthI name you a liar. 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    That's actually pretty brilliant... Valyrian Steel and dragon blood. Damn

                                    [–]dabosstweed 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    Oh it'd be great to open Winds of Winter right to a chapter with the Others and wights.

                                    [–]MushtThe North Remembers 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    That would also explain why Wun Wun was nervous/agitated. I like your theory!

                                    [–]ApolikEgg? I dreamed I was cold. 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    I love that the Ice & Fire theme is so alive in the series. Jon will die and we're speculating about which force is gonna resurrect him first - Others or R'hllor.

                                    [–]LightLordRhllor 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    Could it be he wargs into ghost, gets raised (not by our favourite red priestess) but by the others? Then he wargs back into his body...

                                    [–]elbruceGrowing Strong 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    Then we're watching a show in which a major protagonist is a mindless zombie. Does it not occur to anyone else that would be horrible and boring to watch?

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                                      [–]nunobo...you can never go backfyre 232ポイント233ポイント  (24子コメント)

                                      These guys have to fight each other at some point.

                                      Sure. Or better yet, they can fight alongside each other. Can you imagine a glowing blue eye Jon Snow walking through the crypts of Winterfell, raising his dead ancestors? Brandon Stark, Rickard Stark, Lady, and all the Kings of Winter marching south towards Kings Landing to lay waste to the Dragon Queen.

                                      [–]SurletheSnow Wight 112ポイント113ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                      The North remembers!

                                      [–]nunobo...you can never go backfyre 130ポイント131ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                      "Ug, again with the war of northern aggression..."

                                      -Everyone South of the Neck

                                      [–]ManderTea 48ポイント49ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                      +20 aggressive expansion
                                      -2 stability
                                      +2 war exhaustion
                                      Snow Wight would have so many rebel stacks to deal with, I can't imagine.

                                      [–]GrilledCyan 21ポイント22ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      The Seven Kingdoms' opinion of The North is determined by:

                                      -10 Different religion -50 Aggressive Expansion -20 Was at War -200 Hostile attitude

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                                        [–]ph3rString! Where the f--- is Willas? 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        The South will Freys again!

                                        [–]NuestraVenganZa 18ポイント19ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        I'm thinking what is left of Rickard Stark will probably not put up much of a fight, unless Wight Brandon spits him out of his mouth like the Great Muda in Rassling!

                                        [–]nunobo...you can never go backfyre 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        The charred remains of Rickard will be pulled along by Brandon. Next to Jon will be Lyanna, having the conversation Ned had promised him they would have next time they met...

                                        [–]MadameVakarianBastard of Bear Island 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                        Except...Jon would be a wight. Wights are mindless husks. Only the Others can raise the dead, and so far it would seem as though only babies can be turned to Others...thatwouldbesocoolthough

                                        [–]nunobo...you can never go backfyre 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        I'm of the opinion that White Walkers can turn anyone into another White Walker, but it's easiest with babies maybe. I don't think Jon will die at any point.

                                        [–]The_She_BearHere We Stand against Dickhead Island 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Tinfoil time- What if only those with Stark blood can be turned into White Walkers? The Night's King might have been a Stark, maybe that's why the female Other tried to mate with him. Or maybe there wasn't ever a female Other, the humans just misunderstood how a man was turned into a White Walker because they had never heard of it happening before.

                                        Craster is the son of a wilding and a Night's Watchman. We have very little to go on, but his father could have been from the Stark line. His children with his own daughters would be prime candidates for Otherhood if they somehow have Stark blood. Benjen Stark's body was never found.

                                        I would say it's possible they just need First Men blood in general, but they turned Waymar Royce into a wight, not a White Walker, so it seems they need something more than that, assuming it's even possible.

                                        [–]wholewheatmanBring me one of those chickens. 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        Jon Snow's body rises as a wight and fights for the Night's King. Jon Snow wargs into Ghost to save himself and then back into his possessed body where an internal struggle for control ensues between NK and Jon (maybe some words are shared, who knows). Final battle between Jon Snow and Night's King follows.

                                        [–]_shifte 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        FUCKING RIP LADY

                                        [–]MBSquared 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Holy fuck. That could be the best end of the show concept I've ever heard.

                                        [–]CuriousCursor 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Holy hell, this is a fight I want to see.

                                        [–]jesus_fn_christ 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Oh shit I just went from six to midnight.

                                        [–]VikingHairWinter is coming 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        I thought the iron swords on the crypts protected the dead?

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                                          [–]future_cougar 103ポイント104ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                          I'm convinced that little shit of a steward is gonna stab Jon in the back.

                                          [–]dvdov 159ポイント160ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                          The "previously on" segment before the stabbing is just going to be a montage of Olly telling Jon that the wildlings killed his family.

                                          [–]atticus01 59ポイント60ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                          "Remember Olly. You can do something even when it feels wrong, if you know it's right. "

                                          [–]KasrthI name you a liar. 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Yup, this stood out to me as well.

                                          [–]Galkura 42ポイント43ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Not even that, just that fucking stare he gives Jon every time.

                                          [–]SluttyPhilosopher 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Oh christ just kill me right away I can't go through this.

                                          [–]acamas 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                          And then the scene of Sam telling Olly sometimes you have to do what you think is right, even if others might not agree.

                                          [–]GavinZac  4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          I'm sure there's a version of that scene where Olly puts his finger tips together, turns to the camera, and laughs manically

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                                            [–]JPSYCHC 11ポイント12ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                            I think this is purposeful misdirection. They're never this blatantly obvious with their foreshadowing. I bet olly tries to protect Jon and all of a sudden becomes a fan fav.

                                            [–]LASER_YOUR_BALLSACK 36ポイント37ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                            They're never this blatantly obvious with their foreshadowing.

                                            Weren't we thinking the same thing with Ygritte, though?

                                            [–]yrrpTo Pimp a Butterwell 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            Yeah because we already know Ygritte and Jon die.

                                            [–]Clack082Sunlight is the best disinfectant. 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            I will bet you a cask of Dornish wine Olly "for the watch"'s Jon.

                                            I'll go double or nothing betting that either Wun-Wun throws Olly over the wall, or when Jon comes back he executes Olly for assassinating him.

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                                                [–]The13Kings_of_Winter 29ポイント30ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                I agree. You also don't devote specific scenes to hint at his parentage, or make a huge deal about his Valyrian Steel sword if you're planning on killing him off permanently.

                                                [–]pixelillyThe North Remembers 99ポイント100ポイント  (43子コメント)

                                                I'm pretty sure that Kit Harrington has signed on for season 6, so he'll be on the show one way or another.

                                                [–]Unacosamedarisa 227ポイント228ポイント  (20子コメント)

                                                That's only to film Kit's eyes, so they can be superimposed onto a CGI Direwolf.

                                                [–]TrainOfThought6When I'm King, I'll outlaw beets. 270ポイント271ポイント  (18子コメント)

                                                Nah, they're going to put Kit in a wolf suit for two seasons. Think albino Wilfred.

                                                [–]wilstOldtown funk you up 50ポイント51ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                                With Sam as Ryan.

                                                [–]BoosterCogburnJorah the Explorah 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                I like to think that Kit will play Jon Snow warged into a direwolf's body in a similar costume as the Rodents Of Unusual Size from the Princess Bride. Saves money on CGI for Drogon and the Wights/Walkers

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                                                    [–]zomgrasputin 11ポイント12ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                    He's signed on technically, but that just means he has to be available to the show. The show can write him out/kill him off at any time. The cast has remarked multiple times about how anxious they are reading the scripts because they don't know if they're going to be around.

                                                    [–]rappercake 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                    The actor who played Grenn joked about this, and he said that he immediately called his girlfriend after he read the script and told her that they had to return their new car.

                                                    [–]ProbableWalrus 32ポイント33ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                    Yeah, well Tywin signed on for the next season... so they could have his corpse available for viewing...

                                                    [–]teekayfourtwoone 19ポイント20ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                    leaving dead bodies lying around is not a luxury the north enjoys...

                                                    [–]ProbableWalrus 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                    Perhaps they feel like John doesn't derserve a true nightswatch death because he betrayed them and instead they toss him north of the wall "Let the dead claim him." They say, and the dead does and so Jon rises as the King of the North, Stark mixed with targ blood corrupted by ancient magic. The same Stark blood that built the icy wall keeping them out and so Jon tears down the wall that his family had defended for 8,000 years.

                                                    [–]chr20bLord Commander of Book Snobbery 27ポイント28ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                    He will rise and become the new apprentice of the Night's King: "The frost is strong in you, a powerful wight you will become. Henceforth you shall be known as Darth Fridgeidus. Rise!"

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                                                      [–]Fratboy37And so my Dream begins 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                      I agree, but it's not uncommon for actors to sign contracts with like a five-year "maximum", with the clause that they can be written off at any moment. This happened with one of Homeland's cast members.

                                                      [–]DrMikeTyson 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                      Tell that logic to the guys who make House of Cards.

                                                      [–]Majiinx 15ポイント16ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                      Actually I'm pretty sure he is signed on for seven and will supposedly be receiving a massive pay raise.

                                                      [–]Unacosamedarisa 23ポイント24ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                      Not definitely, no. I'm not too clear on how contracts work, but what happened was the main actors and HBO negotiated salaries for season 7, IF season 7 happens, and IF their characters appear in that season. It's not certain that all of the actors that renegotiated will be in season 7, or even season 6.

                                                      http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-7-leading-cast-members-sign-contracts-for-further-series-9828891.html

                                                      [–]theonlybrettAehole Targaryen, TheLizardKing 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                      With a show like this, where spoilers run abound, the contracts they've signed are mostly for an actor's availability.

                                                      They've pledged their commitment to the show, yet they have no idea whether or not they will actually be returning.

                                                      There's most likely a monetary compensation if the contract is terminated due to termination of character... which is most likely hinged on notice of termination and all sorts of other fine print.

                                                      [–]oojemangeThe Rammer 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                      It could be an easy way to find out if your character is returning - if the showrunners don't seem to take any notice of you demanding a huge pay rise there's probably bad news.

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                                                        [–]crischuHear me sow! 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        One way or anOther?

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                                                          [–]SanTheMightiest 18ポイント19ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                          Good thing nobody actually thinks he'll die

                                                          [–]Cessno 16ポイント17ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                          What I he just does? Now that would break the Internet

                                                          [–]LordoftheBelches 13ポイント14ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                          I think Sam's comment about Jon always coming back was a for sure that he will be resurected, but Melisandre isn't there to do it...

                                                          [–]B_H_DwellerFuck the Books[S] 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                          We're not sure that Mel won't be there. She could get banished from Stannis' camp in E9.

                                                          [–]MBSquared 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                          Then showing up with her fire boobies for Jon to suckle and receive new life.

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                                                            [–]8u11etpr00f 18ポイント19ポイント  (17子コメント)

                                                            That's assuming that Jon doesn't ally with the night's king tho which would be freakin awesome to have someone giving us the White Walkers perspective and how fire magic is evil.

                                                            [–]Loooogan 15ポイント16ポイント  (16子コメント)

                                                            I really like this theory. And the Night's King taking notice of Jon during the battle at Hardhome could be a precedent for the him realizing that Jon has more potential than just making him a brainless wight. Maybe Jon is made into a WW and second in command to the Night's King.

                                                            [–]8u11etpr00f 29ポイント30ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                                            Lol, i'd be pretty pissed off if I was 2nd in command for 8000 years just for a teenage boy to take the role xD.

                                                            [–]Loooogan 43ポイント44ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                                            Haha. "You see, Gary, this is why we should have voted to unionize."

                                                            [–]Septa_Fagina 23ポイント24ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                                            "In this economy, they know they don't have to pay 'em much, straight outta the Watch. They'll work for nothin', Frank!"

                                                            "And what do I have to show for my 8000 years in, Gary? A frozen cubicle and not so much as a thank you ser! And its not like I can just apply somewhere else. No one wants to hire an 8055 year old. I've got 1000 years before I can tap into my 401k."

                                                            "I heard The Storm God is headhunting for a new CFO, Frank. Might want to check into that."

                                                            [–]Loooogan 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                            "I realize it's easier just to hire on Craster's infant sons, but what the Night's King doesn't realize is that these kids have ZERO customer service skills. Now don't tell anyone I told you this, Gary, but the Drowned God is offering a 20% company 401K match, and I've been beefing up my resume..."

                                                            [–]Septa_Fagina 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                            "Kenny from marketing, yeah THAT Kenny from marketing. What a weirdo, right? Anyways, Kenny told me yesterday that he's been in talks with this hot little start-up in Essos.

                                                            Frank, they're actually developing a trans-flagration telecommunications system with R'liew? Rahlure? Rahloo? I don't know, some Red Lord of Light deity. Real futuristic stuff--like where's-my-flying-car shit. Like, I know we had glass candles, but they crack if you look at 'em sideways and you have to be a goddamn maester to work with the clunky interface."

                                                            "Criminey, Gary, I'm too old for all this new tech shit. Valyrian swords, runic armour, dragons! Did you hear they're bringing fucking dragons back?! The Night's King is super pissed. I imagine he'll be raising an army of the undead soon, like 'it worked last time, guys, herp derp'. Fuckin' hate that guy."

                                                            [–]Loooogan 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                            "I hear ya, Frank. The Night's King - I hate that he STILL makes us call him that, I remember back when he was just some pimple faced intern restocking the copy machines, wearing his eyeliner and his death metal t-shirts. But he could use a management sensitivity training course. It's like, 'Hello? Ever heard of open door policy?' I've never had a supervisor give me such a cold shoulder whenever I tried to have a respectful discourse with them. I mean, I get that he's literally frozen and all, but still..."

                                                            [–]Septa_Fagina 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            "And what's with all the stupid gestures lately? That management retreat he went on has really gone to his pointy head. On Monday he was lighting fires in the mail room and walking past them. And last week, Gary, he was standing on the damn table in the conference room slowly raising and lowering his outstretched arms. Like, what are you practicing for? Some 'epic' showdown with those punks south of the Wall?"

                                                            [–]DoomyDoom 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                            You can do a Roth IRA conversion ladder to pull the money out earlier, or a Substantially Equal Periodic Payments thing. just sayin

                                                            [–]Septa_Fagina 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                            "I would, Bill, if I wasn't already upside down on the mortgage for that cottage on the Milkwater that the wife just had to have. I'm worried about the property values--if anymore wildlings abandon or get foreclosed on, the property values are gonna go down and it'll be impossible to sell.

                                                            I'm tolerating a moderately risky investment strategy which is enough to cover me right now if I leave them there provided the market doesn't take a massive dump. If I move to a Roth IRA and the growth is slower when I need to sell, I'm screwed. Might as well leave the key in the mailbox.

                                                            Can't win for losing, Bill. The bastards get me coming and going. Can't retire, can't change jobs. My luck, Night's King'll start another Long Night and put me in charge of the planning committee."

                                                            [–]DoomyDoom 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                            If anything, the growth will be greater in a Roth IRA because you can pick your own shit. Just Sayin'

                                                            [–]Septa_Fagina 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            "Who's your money manager, Bill? My guy is pretty much brain dead. I've kept him around forever, and he's really starting to fall apart. I should look into that. I need to get this shit nailed down before Colleen starts college next year. If I'm not careful, I'm gonna get backed up on my taxes and get my assets frozen."

                                                            [–]DVIANT88 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            somebody guild these two

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                                                              [–]brobelor15 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              Why not get ressurected by Melisandre? He will lose all his duties of the Watch and can finally become Jon Stark.

                                                              [–]OzKangalThe Greater Mystery 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                              Anyone else think that Jon Snow just... survives the stabbing? No tinfoil required?

                                                              [–]ramstoria 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              That's been my feeling on the whole thing since ADWD first came out. We don't need some wild card to come in and save Jon. People can just survive stabbings.

                                                              [–]SurletheSnow Wight [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                              Next you'll tell us Arya survived having her head bashed in by the Hound.

                                                              [–]firo_sephfiro 42ポイント43ポイント  (38子コメント)

                                                              I feel like all of you are forgetting what series this is. People made the exact same arguments about Ned and Robb.

                                                              [–]Captinfucker 29ポイント30ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                              Robb

                                                              Robb wasn't even a POV in the books, no one thought he was a "main character" or even close to it. Cat had lots of POV, but she did come back

                                                              [–]DrMikeTyson 19ポイント20ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                              This seems pretty wrong to me, Robb is essentially the main character in Clash. We have never had a POV from a 'King' btw, a lot of people at the time thought it was deliberate.

                                                              [–]nobody16 21ポイント22ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              For me Tyrion is the main character in ACOK.

                                                              [–]RobertLxanderOur Enemies Nourish Us 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                              Robb was the main character of Clash, at least, if you were explaining the story of Westeros at that time Rob was the main character.

                                                              GRRM had a 'No Kings' rule for POV characters, because he considered them too powerful.

                                                              He has since stated regretting not providing a POV for Robb

                                                              [–]Captinfucker 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                              Robb was the main character of Clash, at least, if you were explaining the story of Westeros at that time Rob was the main character.

                                                              I'm really doubtful of that, Robb only appears in something like 2 chapters or so. It always seemed like Tyrion was the focus of that book, seeing as he got tons of POV time and was central to the big conflict in the book. Robbs whole war was done offscreen, the battle of blackwater was the climax of the whole book.

                                                              [–]RobertLxanderOur Enemies Nourish Us 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              Yea you're right. I forgot that Blackwater was part of that book.

                                                              [–]MBSquared 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              Plenty of people saw Robb as a main character in the show. Plus George wished he wrote from Robbs perspective.

                                                              [–]WhenRomansSpokeGreekA Lion Still Has Claws 52ポイント53ポイント  (21子コメント)

                                                              Completely different. Ned is a character who was introduced very early on in the series and whose development was experienced mostly internally over the course of the first novel. His death substantially furthered the plot of the story and more or less triggered the events which have been happening ever since. Moreover, his death was a lesson from GRRM to readers; honour will get you killed in an unhonourable world. Like Ned, Robb trusted those around him to forgive his mistakes and look past his transgressions. His trust in guest right got him killed and effectively closed the Riverlands theater of war so the plot could move on. GRRM doesn't kill off important characters for the sake of killing them off. There is a reason and purpose.

                                                              If Jon is actually dead at the Wall - as in, that is the total end of his character ala Robb and Ned - it will go completely against what GRRM has been building his story on. He is a character we have followed and witnessed develop for over four books. We need a POV at the Wall with the Others approaching. Sure, you could say that Jon trusted the NW too much to follow his orders, but he knows what he is doing isn't the easy thing to do, but it is the right thing to do. Jon is a different character then Robb and Ned. It would be essentially beheading one of the most important parts of the story at a crucial time.

                                                              [–]ManderTea 25ポイント26ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                              his trust in guest right

                                                              To be fair, breaking guest right is the single most reviled thing anybody has done in the books.

                                                              [–]ShogunTake 22ポイント23ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                              TL:DR Jon's plot armour is too thick for him to die now.

                                                              [–]WhenRomansSpokeGreekA Lion Still Has Claws 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              Haha, exactly!

                                                              [–]ChrisK7Faceless Men 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                              We need a POV at the Wall with the Others approaching.

                                                              Strongest point I've seen so far

                                                              [–]D-SpeakWe didn't start the fire. 23ポイント24ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                              GRRM kills characters when their death serves the story more than their life. With Jon, he's seemingly found a situation where Jon's death serves the story as much as his life, so he both did and didn't kill him off.

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                                                                [–]fyirb 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                Just because it's ASOIAF doesn't mean killing off characters indiscriminately makes sense. Previous deaths helped advanced the plot in some way, Jon dying at the wall would just be sloppy writing geared towards making another "shocking twist!" Plus Jon's POV experiences at the wall are too important to just leave out of future books. With Ned it was fine because there's plenty of other characters to give us perspective in Winterfell or King's Landing, without Jon, who would be able to provide us with a viewpoint on what was going on with the Walkers and the Watch?

                                                                [–]nicevilleThe fuck you looking at? 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                You're right. Everyone is going to die. Jon, Stannis, Dany, the dragons. Everyone. When GRRM said the ending was bittersweet he meant it was because everyone dies and the Others win, because that's what bittersweet means.

                                                                It's not like we have tons of visions indicating Jon is going to live or anything - "Jon on a wall of ice wielding a flaming sword" or "a blue rose in on a wall of ice" that Dany will marry, Mel seeing Jon "turn from a man into a wolf and back into a man", or a how prologue about warging after you die that so far has no other purpose...

                                                                [–]EPearson07 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                Maybe he wargs into his wolf and back into his reanimated corpse? Maybe this is how Cold Hands can be dead but not a wight.

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                                                                    [–]ZomgKazm 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                    R + L = J that's the simple reason he won't die or become a wight and for fuck sake if he would be turned it would be into a WW not a fucking zombie.

                                                                    [–]detenUnbowed, Unbent, Onions 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                    Remember when Robb was going to bring justice for Neds execution?

                                                                    [–]Majiinx 18ポイント19ポイント  (34子コメント)

                                                                    Plus I don't see them killing off one of their biggest stars, even if he dies in the books (which I doubt) I'm sure they could find a way to make him fit in like they have done with other people. And it would be pretty stupid for them to do the stabbing cliff hanger because there is no way they could hide such a high profile actor like Kit if the was filming the next season.

                                                                    I doubt he is dead anyways, GRRM probably did the Ides of March to just torture us. He has no problems killing people off and most likely would just do it and not do it with a cliff hanger. Plus with Melesandre there she could just resurrect him.

                                                                    [–]pixelillyThe North Remembers 19ポイント20ポイント  (20子コメント)

                                                                    Right, and if Jon Snow is as important as he is built up to be; if he is in fact, the song of ice and fire and the "prince that was promised," I find it hard to believe that he is completely down for the count. But it's also possible that Jon is not the lynch pin in all of this. But I feel that there is too much evidence to say that he is. It seems a bit sloppy and unfair to strike down a character that is so crucial to the plot of the story.

                                                                    [–]DeremithGrennseer 8ポイント9ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                                                    Agreed. I have a friend who's sure Jon is dead dead and I absolutely do not buy it. Haven't heard strong evidence (or much at all, tbh) to support him being gone for good but I'd like to hear it if anyone has any. We bet a beer over this so I hope to enjoy a nice free brewski when the book comes out. Pretty confident I will.

                                                                    [–]Rofldaf1 9ポイント10ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                                                    Jon got stabbed multiple times, the nights watchmen that stabbed him intended to assassinate him, not just give him a few minor puncture wounds to send a message. Though he is necessarily alive when his final chapter in ADWD ends, he would die very shortly afterward from a loss of blood.

                                                                    [–]turbo4400 10ポイント11ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                    you can get stabbed a lot without dying if you're lucky. Paul Pierce got stabbed like 11 times in the face, neck and back and started every game the following season. Not saying it's likely but it's definitely not impossible.

                                                                    [–]woopigchewie 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                    Any Celtics reference in r/asoiaf is worthy of my upvote.

                                                                    [–]MigratedCoconut 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                    No, but they are definitely there to kill him, not gonna be giving him medical attention.

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                                                                      [–]Das_MimeA Wild Roose Chase 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                      He got stabbed, but you know what? The wound is described as smoking. And at the same time the text describes the tears running down Bowen Marsh's face.

                                                                      Salt and smoke. You know what that heralds? The birth of Azor Ahai. Jon Snow is going to be resurrected by Melisandre 110%.

                                                                      [–]acamas 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                      Haven't heard strong evidence (or much at all, tbh) to support him being gone for good but I'd like to hear it if anyone has any.

                                                                      But there's no really 'strong evidence' that would support him living either... and 'because he's a likable character' or 'had unfinished business' is not terribly strong evidence either.

                                                                      [–]JayVeeThree 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                      I'd argue that the mystery and many hints about his parentage are pretty strong evidence he's going to somehow continue on in some form. Him dying for good will mean that everything to do with him appearing in Melisandre's visions, everything about him apparently being special in some way, and his connection with the Night's King in the show this week, were all for nothing.

                                                                      Can't see any way he dies and that's that. Zero chance.

                                                                      [–]deadlysyntax 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                      The main giveaway is when George says when questioned "Oh you think he's dead do you? hehehe".

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                                                                          [–]Kimandtonic 13ポイント14ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                          You don't see them killing off one of the biggest stars?? After casting Sean Bean as Ned! I mean, I don't believe for a second that Jon dies for good (he always comes back), but I don't think they would shy away from killing off anyone if that's what the story calls for.

                                                                          [–]karmadestroying 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                          Ned had been dead over a decade when Bean was cast. The Red Wedding had been bled out nearly ten years when the show started. D&D know the general story. They know whether or not Jon dies.

                                                                          While the show has had a remarkably excellent cast, it's clear that some actors are more in demand, can better carry scenes, and demand larger salaries than others. They probably paid Bean a lot more for his one season than most of the other actors got, because they absolutely needed a powerful performance from Ned Stark to sell the show. Daario just needs to stir some lady loins, he can get recast.

                                                                          [–]footnotefour 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                          You don't see them killing off one of the biggest stars?? After casting Sean Bean as Ned!

                                                                          Dude, Sean Bean dies in, like, everything he's in.

                                                                          [–]DrMikeTyson 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                          Plus I don't see them killing off one of their biggest stars, even if he dies in the books (which I doubt) I'm sure they could find a way to make him fit in like they have done with other people.

                                                                          Just like with Rob Stark...

                                                                          [–]Loooogan 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                          Eh, at this point, 5 seasons in, I think Jon Snow is a bigger juggernaut of a character than Rob ever was. But I do agree with you that if Jon Snow needed to die to further the plot in the direction that they wanted, they would have no qualms about doing so.

                                                                          [–]RobertLxanderOur Enemies Nourish Us 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                          And it would be pretty stupid for them to do the stabbing cliff hanger because there is no way they could hide such a high profile actor like Kit if the was filming the next season.

                                                                          There is two types of cliff-hangers.

                                                                          • A : There is a revelation which could be resolved in the very next scene.

                                                                          EG; Main character A finds an unknown Gunman in their Living room. In the next scene Main Character B walks in and says "I've called the cops" and the gunman flees and Character A and B are unhurt.

                                                                          • B : An action which changes the course of the story takes place.

                                                                          EG; Main character A finds that Main Character B was shot by an unknown gunman. In the next scene Main Character B dies and Main Character A has to pick up the pieces.

                                                                          When it comes to the TV medium Jon getting stabbed is more similar to type A than Type B, for the exact reason you have stated. People would know he didn't die. For this reason I believe that Jon will be stabbed this season and he will be either resurrected as the cliff hanger, or he will flee the wall injured.

                                                                          [–]Rex_Grossman_the_3rd 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                          Exactly this. People just need to think, does Game of Thrones ever do the big season ending cliff hangers? No, they usually wrap story lines up. You also have Sam saying "Jon always comes back." Why would they foreshadow something to happen in almost a year. The majority of the audience won't remember Sam saying that.

                                                                          [–]StangstagThe Iron Throne is mine by rights 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                          Previously on game of thrones...

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                                                                              [–]hey_girl_ya_hungry 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                              god I fucking hope so

                                                                              [–]atticus01 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                              The main reasons people think he'll be resurrected from the books info has been more or less left out of the show, which causes me to doubt they'll even do it.

                                                                              No ones been resurrected for ages (plus Mel went with Stan) and Jon has barely shown the slightest hint at warging.

                                                                              [–]mk1317 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                              This is partially why I never bought into the Snow Wight theory as well. Also I believe Carice Van Houten said that she has at least one more significant scene with Jon Snow, so there's that.

                                                                              [–]chicklette 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                              I just have to say, these threads make me feel like I never read the books. Thank you for your glorious detail-laden theories!

                                                                              [–]transmission_seed 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                              i never thought much about the phrase "kill the boy" until I read this thread...

                                                                              [–]Prankster_Bob 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                              Jon Snow is based on Paul Atreides in Dune. To become Azor Ahai he must first die and then come back

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