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[–]KrisK_lvin 23ポイント24ポイント  (21子コメント)

I was also overweight for most of my adolescence and couldn't even get a date until I lost most of my weight.

Upsetting as this no doubt was at the time, this has sweet FA to do with MRAs. You're thinking of the Red Pill, possibly PUAs, probably not MGTOW.

Now it can be confusing as there is clearly some overlap between these four groups, but crucially - and quite helpfully if you ask me - the names they call themselves by and the vocabulary they use to talk about their ideas are kind of a clue that they are, in fact, not the same at all.

Even the girls who couldn't get a date to save their lives used to reject me. Due to growing up in this environment I developed some extreme misogynistic feelings towards women […] Soon after this I discovered the Men's Rights Movement (MRM) online. I read blog posts, articles, and other material …

Would you care to name one of them? Because if what you're about to say, as I suspect it is, is Return of Kings, then you're in the wrong place. That site is not an MRA site.

You can tell it's not an MRA site from this article called 5 Reasons I Am Not A Men’s Rights Activist which includes such gems as "The majority of fervent MRA’s come across as… well, to put it bluntly – losers."

You can also tell that it's not an MRA site by it's repeated references to Red pills and Blue pills, such as here.

You see that difference, don't you? Different names - The Red Pill, PUA, MGTOW, MRA - are kind of a big hint that they are not the same and that they make the differences amongst these groups quite explicit.

… over the past few months I've found it hard to relate to the movement as a whole due to some of the trends I've seen ... I feel that if these trends continue the movement for men's rights will eventually shut down, leaving boys and men to suffer in silence once again.

Suffer in silence from what? From being overweight and not being able to get a girlfriend? That's not really a men's rights or even a human rights issue. There is the right to a family life in the UN charter, I believe, but that means the right not to have others prevent you from having a family life - it's not a guarantee of one.

Constantly writing articles that attack women …

Attack women or attack Feminists? While many feminists are women, not all women are feminists. There is no necessary connection between the two.

If you do actually mean articles attacking women as women name one. Actually, no, name at least five - if you say it's happening constantly then you must have a great deal of evidence, mustn't you?

Constantly attacking/criticizing Feminists in a nonproductive manner … As an ex-misogynist I completely understand where these hostile feelings are coming from

Define non-productive.

Also, there is no relation between criticising Feminism and being a misogynist. Feminists such as yourself tend to assume this automatically, but that's partly a consequence of attributing a political motive to every action a person makes.

There is no such thing as an objective truth in this view, only form of knowledge that supports what they consider to be the oppressor or the oppressed. But that understanding is only relevant and true to a believer. To a non-believer in that world view it's meaningless drivel. Hence, disagreement with feminism is a heresy and the new word for a heretic is a misogynist.

Focusing on pointless issues … An example of this would be the recent articles, criticisms, and attacks on the recently released Mad Max movie. As a filmmaker as well as screenwriter ...

sighs

Yes, you are again wrong. The criticism of Mad Max came from The Return of Kings.

Remember them? They're the ones I just told you described MRAs as "well, to put it bluntly – losers."

You maybe a filmmaker and a screenwriter - am I supposed to impressed by that by the way? - because judging by your research skills, you are probably not a very successful at either.

It seems like lately MRA's are more focused on attacking Feminists than fighting for the rights of the men

I've heard this accusation before and understand it's quite a common one. A number of Feminists are actively pushing for policies that would discriminate against men and have already succeeded in pushing through a number of policies that are quite plainly discriminatory.

Not surprisingly, they come under criticism for doing so.

An example would be some of the recent false-rape protests by MRA's on college campuses. In some instances the protests go well, but others have gotten out of control. In one case MRA's decided to jam the phone services to a campus-rape hotline that people could call in case of an emergency.

OK, you got me here. I've never heard this story and you provide no link.

Judging by your efforts so far, my suspicion is you've got it wrong again. I will also assume that even if you can find a story that describes MRAs as jamming rape crisis phone lines, I am willing to bet money that this is a completely groundless assertion made against some nasty pranksters / trolls who have been labelled MRAs without any shred of actual evidence.

This one speaks for itself. With terms like alpha, beta, red-pill, and blue-pill

The only thing this speaks to is that you are yourself a Feminist troll because you have, as has been pointed out already, no understanding of the differences and similarities between MRAs, MGTOW, The Red Pill or PUAs.

Here, you are clearly talking about The Red Pill - the give away there is the reference to the red-pill - who are not only not MRAs but often are quite derisive of MRAs.

… I am not a member of the MRM I still support what they are trying to accomplish

Sure you do. You support it so much you don't even know what it is having spent the entire 'novel' describing the actions of The Red Pill as MRAs.

You know on that subject, a lot of Feminists, on the rare occasions that they will actually enter a debate, generally avoid having to make counter-arguments by simply putting up their hands and saying things like 'It's not us!' or 'That's not real feminists' and so and so on.

But the thing is, while there are multiple forms of Feminism and they don't all agree on everything - whether trans-women can be considered women at all is a hot topic among them for example - they all do still nevertheless go by the name of Feminist and by and large draw on the same vocabulary e.g. heteronormative patriarchal oppression and so on.

You would think therefore that by calling things by different names - MRA/MRM, PUA, The Red Pill and MGTOW - it would kind of be a clue that there is not just a minor difference in doctrine but a more pronounced difference altogether.

Still, no one would expect a no doubt successful filmmaker and screenwriter to be bothered to do anything so simple as check some facts.

[–]FasCap 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thank you for saying everything I wanted to in this thread, because I am much too lazy to have done it as well as you did.

[–]KrisK_lvin 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's so polite - you can definitely come round again.

I'll put the special biscuits out.

[–]Halafax 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

ld call in case of an emergency. OK, you got me here. I've never heard this story and you provide no link.

Hurm. I think he's referencing when Occidental University had an anonymous system to report rape. People could accuse anyone of rape, with no evidence. The school wasn't being clear about what it would do with this info. It wasn't getting reported to the police, but it was somehow important enough to gather.

One of the chan boards jumped on it, and started filing lots of obviously fake reports. Not really an MRA thing, but it was still a stupid idea that needed exposure for what it was.

[–]FasCap 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

IIRC, there was a thread about it and a few posters said they were going to fill it out in the name of a fictional character in order to highlight the ridiculousness of an anonymous reporting tool within a discipline system.

Anyway, 4chan trolls were the ones doing most of the legwork. Still, calling it spamming a rape reporting system sounds a lot worse than saying they were highlighting the inherent flaws of the system with parodies.

[–]KrisK_lvin 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not really an MRA thing,

Thanks for this.

[–]Halafax 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, no. Thank you.

Explaining the difference between mra, rp, mgtow, and pua to outsiders is exasperating. Thanks for making an attempt.

[–]copsgonnacop 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

An example would be some of the recent false-rape protests by MRA's on college campuses. In some instances the protests go well, but others have gotten out of control. In one case MRA's decided to jam the phone services to a campus-rape hotline that people could call in case of an emergency.

OK, you got me here. I've never heard this story and you provide no link.

Maybe someone can find a link here because my memory is a little loose on this one. But I think the issue was that this hotline was set up and it left the impression that an accusation was, well, something more than simply an accusation.

In an attempt to point out that an accusation is, essentially, meaningless, some MRM supporters flooded the hotline with accusations against the people responsible for establishing and supporting the hotline.

There was nothing (IMO) "malicious" about this tactic. Rather, it was a valid attempt to point out the absurdity of an anonymous hotline because literally anyone can accuse anyone else of anything with such a set up.

I would argue that this was an example of the exact type of real-life, policy-changing activism that the OP claims doesn't exist in the MRM.

[–]KrisK_lvin 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

… some MRM supporters flooded the hotline with accusations …

I'm still skeptical.

Just what was this 'flood'? How many calls from how many people in how many hours?

And how were they identified as MRM? It doesn't need a great deal of the imagination to see that potentially anyone could ring up saying they were the MRM. That might sound paranoid, but we've seen enough of this through Gamergate to know that it's not an uncommon tactic.

In any event, if it is true and it was a group who identify themselves as MRAs/MRM it's not something I would approve of at all.

I find those kind of headline grabbing newsworthy events completely worthless vanity projects for the activists involved (no matter what the protest is for or about that is).

Effective activism is a slow process that takes many years with very, very few exceptions, those kind of public demos - IMO of course - are a waste of time.

[–]copsgonnacop 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

FWIW, I'm not sure this even happened. It may have just been a "hey we could...." discussion.

[–]copsgonnacop -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thanks to /u/halafax, I was able to find the article

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/dec/20/local/la-me-occidental-abuse-hotline-20131220

There are multiple others if you google, but this was the most non-jezebel/thinkprogress/huffingtonpost source I was able to find quickly.

[–]KrisK_lvin 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

My comment to OP on this was:

I will also assume that even if you can find a story that describes MRAs as jamming rape crisis phone lines, I am willing to bet money that this is a completely groundless assertion made against some nasty pranksters / trolls who have been labelled MRAs without any shred of actual evidence.

The LA Times link you've provided does nothing to dissuade me from that point of view - I've also Googled a number of articles on the same story and it's all the usual suspects1 up to the usual trick - beloved of Feminism all the way from academia to Tumblr - of making assertions that can neither be verified nor falsified.

I mean Dylan Love reporting in Business Insider on Dec 19 2013 displays at least some sense of shame by putting 'Men's Rights' in scare quotes in his article 'Men's Rights' Activists Spam A College's Rape Reporting System With False Accusations'.

Claiming it was this actual site that launched the spamming campaign with a post from user called 'Sh-tlordDon'. The campaign is orchestrated from 4Chan, the poster on this subreddit names himself 'Shitlord' so, of course, of course this was the work of the MRAs.

Do you know the mad thing is that I don't even consider to be an MRA myself, but what I do have is a profound aversion to busllhit and especially to bullshit that is being spread in the service of highly questionable and poorly thought-out political goals.

1 e.g. Amanda Marcotte in Slate Dec 19 2013 'Men's Rights Activists Do Not Prove Their Point'

[–]Black_caped_man -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was also overweight for most of my adolescence and couldn't even get a date until I lost most of my weight.

Upsetting as this no doubt was at the time, this has sweet FA to do with MRAs. You're thinking of the Red Pill, possibly PUAs, probably not MGTOW.

...

Suffer in silence from what? From being overweight and not being able to get a girlfriend? That's not really a men's rights or even a human rights issue. There is the right to a family life in the UN charter, I believe, but that means the right not to have others prevent you from having a family life - it's not a guarantee of one.

You are focusing way to much on his intro there, he was just giving some back story to his position. While I felt that it may have been a bit out of place it does help when trying to see the his POW.

Sure you are right that he has confused the MRA with all the other acronyms and color pills and whatnot out there, but sometimes it actually is easy to miss.

I get that you feel he's a feminist troll, and I don't come here often enough to dispute that, you may well be right in that. Still your post comes across as more antagonistic than educational. Just thought I'd mention it.

[–]ShowstopperShroom 1ポイント2ポイント  (8子コメント)

a lot of Feminists, on the rare occasions that they will actually enter a debate,

Funny how you cowards love to lecture about debating while actively avoiding any debate of your delusional MRA views.

Your hypocrisy is a joke.

[–]KrisK_lvin -2ポイント-1ポイント  (7子コメント)

My goodness, you're terribly excitable, aren't you?

Your hypocrisy is a joke.

Godwin's Law! Of course!

[–]kris_ivins 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

[–]KrisK_lvin -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Did you do that all by yourself?

It looks very professional - have you ever thought about becoming a graphic designer?

I bet you'd be wonderful at it.

[–]Krisk_Ivvin 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

have you ever thought about becoming a vagina. i bet you'd be very good at it.

[–]KrisK_lvin -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Have you been looking up all the naughty words in the family dictionary again?

You have, haven't you - I can tell. You can have hours of fun by yourself that way.

[–]Krisky_Ivin 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Have you been sniffing your mom's underwear again? You are pretty brave.