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Why We're Bitter (self.infertility)

PrincessCBHammockMFI. TTC 4+ yrs, IVF w/ ICSI が 投稿

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[–]sonalogy37, DOR, TTC#1, motherfucking menopause breathing down my neck [スコア非表示]  (61子コメント)

You know, call me weird (you wouldn't be the first) but other people having children does not make me bitter. I mean, I get why it does for others here. But, honestly, I can't find it in me to get upset about this, particularly when it's someone so irrelevant to my day to day as Kim Kardashian.

And as I said, I get that other people do get very upset over this, and why. And I get that everyone needs to vent.

But maybe it's that I am a writer. I've had some success as a writer. But, that still means that I can pour my heart and soul into a story and have it rejected twenty-five times in a row. Many of my friends are writers and I see them succeed in the same places that have rejected me. Some of them write stuff I can't stand. Heck, I see poorly written crap like 50 Shades of Gray make millions of dollars, and I see people who have worked less hard get more recognition, and still I collect rejection number 26 and have to find it in me to believe this story has a home somewhere and send it out again. And it is like this almost every day. Hundreds of indicators that other people get to live the dream and I get another rejection and send it out again and hope that this time i get to be grateful to make $50.

It would be really easy to be bitter and envious all the time. Heck, many writers are.

But at some point, I had to make my peace with the fact that there will always be someone else whose work I don't respect will win the awards and get the money and the fame and the movie deal. Even if I see greater success, it's still a path filled with rejection and people getting ahead of me despite having done less. I had to separate the results from who I am, and feel good about who I am anyway.

So I mean yeah, I still have moments, but that's all they are. Moments. They pass.

I find it is not so different with infertility. There will always be people, even people I don't respect, having children more easily than me. Meanwhile I will go through everything and still face failure month after month, no matter what I do. It's likewise something I have to make my peace with. I can't live in constant bitterness.

If I wanted to sit down and make a list of reasons why I should be bitter and envious, I could sit here all day getting angry. Getting angry at people I don't even know just expends energy I need for other things in my life. Compare, and despair.

It is, indeed, a totally natural and normal response to be envious, but I also do think this is something we all have to come to terms with while we are in the process. The world is not going to stop having babies because we can't. Kardashians are gonna Kardashian. My getting upset and angry about her, while a normal response, is likewise only going to hurt me unless I find a way to be okay with the fact that irritating people exist in the world and sometimes do things that I wish I could.

Pardon me if I am sounding preachy. I do strongly believe all feelings are normal and should be respected. But sometimes you still need to do something about those feelings, lest they hurt you in the end. And why waste the energy on someone so trivial as Kim Kardashian?

[–]whatsanityTTC #1, 1 CP, cysts and possible endo [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

I didn't care at the beginning, not until I came across a magazine where it was discussing her dishing out gross amounts of money on fertility treatments. In the end I'm not mad she's pregnant, I'm not even mad she's got money. I'm mad I can't get pregnant and that I don't have any money. When I get to the end of my road with tests I will not have any other options because I don't have enough money. It makes me mad that money can buy experiences and children that I might never get to have. This isn't directed at Kim and her family. This is directed at myself and it's directed at society for not viewing infertility as something not worth covering/helping with.

I waited my whole life to meet someone worth having a life with. I never found him. So now I've decided to do it on my own and I found a way to do it on my own and I made sure to wait till I was out of debt and financial ok. So no, I'm not mad at other women for having working parts. I'm mad at me for not having working parts.

Just to be clear, I'm not mad at you. I'm having a bad day. I realize that the feelings I get are my own and I'm the one that needs to sort them out. It's just not that easy.

Ps. Sorry for the rant.

[–]Hermionekittehendo & PCOS/probably IVF this summer [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I didn't care at the beginning, not until I came across a magazine where it was discussing her dishing out gross amounts of money on fertility treatments. In the end I'm not mad she's pregnant, I'm not even mad she's got money. I'm mad I can't get pregnant and that I don't have any money. When I get to the end of my road with tests I will not have any other options because I don't have enough money. It makes me mad that money can buy experiences and children that I might never get to have. This isn't directed at Kim and her family. This is directed at myself and it's directed at society for not viewing infertility as something worth covering/helping with.

This. I've been thinking about that post from yesterday a lot in the past 24 hours and trying to decide where my feelings are on this topic. I finally decided it comes down to money and privilege: no matter what her dxs are, she has the money and connections to find a resolution no matter what, whether that ends up being a surrogate, adopting overseas, etc. Most of us don't. Even those of us who are lucky enough to live in places where the govt covers IVF still probably don't have the means to get a surrogate or adopt overseas. I just find that so incredibly unfair and wrong. Part of my pain is that I feel like this nightmare will never end for me because we will never be able to afford true resolution of this issue, i.e. creating a family, either by adoption or some other means. At some point my husband and I might have to learn to live childfree. She never will because she has the means to try all available options (aside from the fact she already has a kid). I think that's bullshit. Yes, I'm sure IF has been painful for her, but she'll never know that gnawing, horrible feeling of "holy shit what if NOTHING works????" because she has unlimited means. There is potentially no stopping point for her like there is for almost all of us.

Also, one more thing: I would find her more sympathetic if she would come out in public and acknowledge how burdensome IVF is for most Americans and maybe set up a charity or something for the "great unwashed masses" who cannot easily afford IVF, surrogacy, adoption, etc. We should all have the same options as Kim K.

[–]Whisgo31 yrs | POF | Lupus + MTS | 1 DIVF (CP) 1 FET (failed) [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This! So much this... This is what I was trying to convey in my comments yesterday. Being honest in my envy and how I feel but envy got translated as hatred. I envy those who do not have to worry about the financial repercussions of treatment because I have to.. but even then I know people likely envy my own level of financial security to do what I am doing. My perception is she has it easy street in support and finances. That makes me envious. Does she have her own challenges? Yes! But why can't I be selfish for once and admit that I feel envious, that I wish I didn't have to work while going through the stress of shots and all... That I wish I could have put that money down on a house instead of ivf.

Honestly replace her with some other celebrity and I would feel the same way. Doesn't mean I hate them.

[–]sonalogy37, DOR, TTC#1, motherfucking menopause breathing down my neck [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Oh absolutely, not easy at all to sort those feelings out. It takes time.

Be kind to yourself.

[–]Pamzella37 TTC #1 MFI & DOR 1MC 5IUIs [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I am mad at me for having parts that gave up early. I am mad at me for doing everything right and still having not enough money to overcome the non-working parts, and my past history with debt and being dead broke making me absolutely freaked out to spend what we have worked SO HARD to finally have. I hear you.

[–]whatsanityTTC #1, 1 CP, cysts and possible endo [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I'd like to believe that things will work out one way or another. Whether it's by getting where I want to be or getting somewhere where I'm alright with the outcomes. I hope the same for you too.

[–]Pamzella37 TTC #1 MFI & DOR 1MC 5IUIs [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Well, I am not committing suicide, so time is going to move forward one way or another. I am honestly afraid that whatever is in the future, the feeling of being broken, my fears about the future of my relationship with so much sadness in it.... just so different that I am robbed of security and happiness.

[–]DustyBeachRoad38. PCOS, Hyperplasia. 3 IUI, 2 IVF fails. One last try. [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I'm sorry but this comes across as incredibly condescending.You haven't said anything we don't already know. Sometimes people simply need to vent their frustrations--without getting a lecture on what would be a better way to handle their emotions.

[–]Pamzella37 TTC #1 MFI & DOR 1MC 5IUIs [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

You are entitled to your opinion. I respect your opinion. I could give a shit about KK pretty much, except I can't get away, and I don't actually have energy to care about THIS SPECIFIC situation, it's enough to care about the members of this sub who are my friends and having a hard time, a mixed time. I can be envious of people here, and that's my truth some moments, but that's not helpful. I can't let that go and get nothing else to be bitch about though.

And honestly, I felt like /u/moosobay's post yesterday was just that-- get it out and get over it same day, that fleeting feeling. But then we got some feelings police in there, and ain't nobody got time for that.

[–]sonalogy37, DOR, TTC#1, motherfucking menopause breathing down my neck [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Yes, I agree--the initial post was clearly one of those fleeting moments that you vent and it's gone, which isn't what motivated me to say these things. But it turned into something else, for a lot of reasons, and that's where this came from.

And I wasn't even going to say anything, because I truly don't want to police people's feelings, but the thought would not leave me so for my own peace of mind, I wanted to say it. And I hope someone does get something out of what I wrote, but I respect that not everyone agrees with what I've said or my decision to say it at all... I've said what I need to and I'm not going to fight with someone if they don't agree.

It's not always easy to tell online when someone is just getting a bad moment off their chest, or when the anger and bitterness and resentment is starting to corrode someone's heart and soul, particularly when the emotional volume gets turned up loud and starts reverberating like it did in yesterday's thread. And yesterday did start to feel corrosive. I'm a big fan of venting, but sometimes it doesn't release anger, but creates more. I mean, the feelings are valid, but they are also an indicator, at least for me, and maybe for others.

Peace, friend.

[–]tittypuncherPeriod Police [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I can totally respect your opinion here. Although I do disagree slightly,sometimes being angry, and feeling that anger, really feeling it can be very healing, pushing it down is what is unhealthy.

[–]sonalogy37, DOR, TTC#1, motherfucking menopause breathing down my neck [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Oh, I agree with you. Pushing it down leads to really serious problems. (Hello, 30 years of depression.)

Anger is one of these tricky emotions though, in that sometimes the anger is really something else. And sometimes, a person can get stuck in anger without getting to the the something else, in order to really feel that and deal with it. (And sometimes anger is just anger, so none of this applies.)

[–]tittypuncherPeriod Police [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

True. For me when I was in the middle of it I needed to get angry, so, so angry, or else I would have died. I felt like my soul was being murdered piece by piece and I needed to feel the burn of real anger over the situation to feel like I was alive, and like I could carry on for just one more day.

[–]effingeffstick4 IVFs, 3m/c's, 1 FET [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This. Venting on this board was the only reason why I didn't have a complete fucking meltdown after my 3rd IVF miscarriage. I remember on my old account I came on here to vent about it and someone who graduated started telling me something like 'sometimes infertility can make us selfish' and 'infertility can make us focus on only one thing'. Maybe they meant well, maybe they didn't but all I knew was here I was facing the very real threat I probably would never have a child and someone who's pregnant is telling me about my feelings. Um, no.

[–]moosobay [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I can't believe the way it took off. 200+ comments? Uffda.

It was totally just a vent. Hence the "short" rant, lol. I didn't expect it to explode or for anyone to have their feelings hurt by comments made.

[–]HerVoiceEchoes [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

And why waste the energy on someone so trivial as Kim Kardashian?

Because triggers don't work that way. You can't control what will set you off if you're feeling raw about something. I personally can't handle rape jokes in any context. I can be watching a comedic TV show or movie and be laughing and then they'll do a crass rape joke and I have to turn it off, leave the room, and still often end up in tears over it. It confuses the hell out of anyone I'm with because why waste the energy on a stupid movie/TV show?

Because emotions aren't always rational. Sometimes people need a safe place to let out the emotion.

[–]tittypuncherPeriod Police [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Dude, there's another thread where you can go be happy and shit. This is not that thread.

[–]PrincessCBHammockMFI. TTC 4+ yrs, IVF w/ ICSI[S] [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

To each her own. My experience was quite different and this post is to tell people their feelings are valid. Please don't tell people not to waste anything on Kim K just because you can't understand it.

ETA I also find that people are misunderstanding that someone is mad AT KimK. I haven't picked up on that, I have only seen anger AT the situation which includes their own and how unfair it is.

[–]sonalogy37, DOR, TTC#1, motherfucking menopause breathing down my neck [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

It's not that I don't understand it. It is that I think in the long run it hurts that person, and that is something they need to work out.

Absolutely, I agree that all feelings are valid.

[–]tittypuncherPeriod Police [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well I'm so glad they have you here to judge them then. /s

[–]AwesomeClogs [スコア非表示]  (33子コメント)

Now I'm curious about your writings! Anything to share perhaps? What genre do you write?

Oh and <3

I think there is a difference in sometimes recognising bitterness and hate bubbling up due to frustration and sadness... and actually embracing them and being very vocal about it, often. For me it's not something i want for myself, all these struggles have taken away so much from me, it does take effort but i just hope that i can always try to strive to being a nice person. And i fail often, sure. But the goal is there.

So yeah i think being bitter is normal, but not letting that emotion define you or guide your actions seems very healthy as well.

[–]DustyBeachRoad38. PCOS, Hyperplasia. 3 IUI, 2 IVF fails. One last try. [スコア非表示]  (14子コメント)

Since you're so much better at handling the bitterness of infertility than the rest of us, can I have your baby while you face a life of childlessness? No? Then shut the fuck up already.

[–]tittypuncherPeriod Police [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I love you Dusty.

[–]DustyBeachRoad38. PCOS, Hyperplasia. 3 IUI, 2 IVF fails. One last try. [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Thanks for remembering and supporting those of us still in hell <3

[–]tittypuncherPeriod Police [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I wish I could do more than just...post.

[–]duppyconquerer34, mild DOR/MFI, IUI #4 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

<3

[–]PrincessCBHammockMFI. TTC 4+ yrs, IVF w/ ICSI[S] [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

HAHAHA ok, scrolling down reading comments I so did not expect this. She's spewing venom on the other sub too. You're the best. I left this sub, because I couldn't stand the sunshine and rainbows being forced on everyone and now that I see people coming around I feel guilty for leaving and not coming back.

[–]tittypuncherPeriod Police [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Me too, I feel like I abandoned my post :(

[–]waterfall444FET soon [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Come back to us ladies!!!

[–]tittypuncherPeriod Police [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Well, I'm not sure my uniform fits anymore, and I'm a bit rusty, but I guess I could take a couple ibuprofen and jump in.

[–]waterfall444FET soon [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Come back! I like you guys!

[–]marsupialsuit32/unexplained I guess?/trying since 4-13/IVF #1 soon [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I agree! We need you! Can we get some sort of bat signal?? I feel like you're our fairy godmothers.

[–]DustyBeachRoad38. PCOS, Hyperplasia. 3 IUI, 2 IVF fails. One last try. [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I actually feel bad being mean, but sometimes enough is enough already.

You know, not gonna lie, it hurt, being left behind when the vets left because of a few annoying newbies (who quickly disappeared anyway). Most of us have never been sunshine and rainbows, and this remains our safe space. I know the vets of course need their own space to talk life with baby, and the nature of infertility is that the population goes in cycles--I've watched several groups of people arrive after me and then graduate--and there are others who have been around way longer than me. It just really sucks being left behind. And while I don't want pity, occassional empathy and support from those who got lucky and moved on would be reassuring that we aren't forgotten as friends just because we can't get pregnant and join the cool kids table.

Anyway, appreciate the show of support today <3

[–]PrincessCBHammockMFI. TTC 4+ yrs, IVF w/ ICSI[S] [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Here's my problem with what you're saying (or my interpretation of it): it sounds like because YOU don't allow bitterness to overtake you, you don't think anyone should. My ENTIRE reason for posting this is to say to these women, "hey, it's ok to be angry/bitter/envious even hateful for a minute" because is it hurting any of us? No. It's their way of dealing that's OK.

[–]AwesomeClogs [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Oh I'm totally fine with the 'for a minute '! Like i said, I'm not exactly a stranger to those emotions. But comments in that topic were quite unwelcoming to new comers. Some openly spoke up about it (how it's not a pissing contest) and i had lurkers message me in support. I'm not saying venting in this sub is wrong, I've done it plenty! But i did speak up about people there saying how she isn't allowed to use the word 'infertile', how she hasn't been struggling long enough... do you really honestly feel it is okay to say that about/to someone?

[–]PrincessCBHammockMFI. TTC 4+ yrs, IVF w/ ICSI[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well I don't think they're saying it to her and like I said, things said in a moment's anger here should be OK. I especially think it's hard for people who havent had success to hear from someone who's had success about how to deal with their failure.

[–]tittypuncherPeriod Police [スコア非表示]  (14子コメント)

. For me it's not something i want for myself

Great. Cool. Don't judge others if they feel differently.

[–]AwesomeClogs [スコア非表示]  (13子コメント)

If they have freedom to judge others, have freedom of speech... why wouldn't I?

[–]tittypuncherPeriod Police [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

YOU'RE JUDGING THEM. How do you not get this? Get off your high horse.

[–]AwesomeClogs [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

So they can judge others but i can't judge them? By the way, when we're judging back and forth anyway, how come i only see you around when there is drama, rarely ever to positively support people? You must really like the smell of shit hitting the fan ;)

[–]waterfall444FET soon [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Clogs I love you but it's too much. Titty IS supporting people here and I do love you so Ill say this - a lot of people are getting upset because they see you as someone who has succeeded (as in: you are pregnant) coming back here to judge those still desperately trying on how they are feeling/directing they feelings, etc. Maybe it's healthy, maybe it's not but it's their journey and theirs to deal with. We don't have a right to judge. And just to add in, just because someone is judging you doesn't mean you can't be a bigger person and not judge them back.

[–]AwesomeClogs [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

You are the only one who keeps bringing up my pregancy. I'm out of here.

[–]waterfall444FET soon [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm not. Everyone knows you are pregnant Clogs. Duppy's post was about YOU coming back here. People are bringing it up to me over PM, etc. I just wanted you to be aware. You can't pretend you are not pregnant.

[–]tittypuncherPeriod Police [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Good. Finally.

[–]duppyconquerer34, mild DOR/MFI, IUI #4 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Maybe not everyone is as enamored of your important opinions as you are.

More importantly, maybe you need to consider where you are in this process and re-evaluate your participation here.

[–]marsupialsuit32/unexplained I guess?/trying since 4-13/IVF #1 soon [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It must be so exhausting to keep your nose up all the damn time so you can look down on people.

[–]PrincessCBHammockMFI. TTC 4+ yrs, IVF w/ ICSI[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Wow. I'm glad I saw this after you left.

[–]PrincessCBHammockMFI. TTC 4+ yrs, IVF w/ ICSI[S] [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Because you're literally telling people to not judge and then turning around and doing the same thing to them?

[–]AwesomeClogs [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I don't tolerate intolerance very well. That is true. I don't think it is okay to say about someone who is pregnant through ivf that she can't use to word 'infertile'. True. I don't think it's okay to say someone didn't struggle long enough. True. If that makes me wrong and judgemental in your opinion, then so be it.